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400 Blackwater Mercs Deployed In Ukraine Against Separatists, German Press Reports

Tyler Durden's picture


In what is becoming a weekly ritual, the German press continues to demolish the US case of "idealistic humaniatrian" Ukraine intervention. Recall, that it was a week ago that German tabloid Bild am Sonntag, hardly the most reputable source but certainly one which reaches the broadest audience, reported that dozens of CIA and FBI agents were "advising the Ukraine government." This conclusion is hardly a stretch and certainly based on facts considering the recent semi-secret jaunt by CIA head Brennan to Kiev. Fast forward one week when overnight the same Bild reported that about 400 elite mercenary commandos of the private US security firm, Academi, f/k/a Xe Services, f/k/a Blackwater "are involved in a punitive operation mounted by Ukraine's new government" against east Ukraine separatists.

Bild cites sources who report that on April 29, Germany's Federal Intelligence Service (BND) informed the Angela Merkel government about Academi commandos' involvement in Kiev's military operations in eastern Ukraine. Spiegel adds that "the information originates from U.S. intelligence services and was presented during a meeting chaired by the Chancellor's Office chief Peter Altmaier (CDU). At the meeting were present the president of the intelligence agencies and the Federal Criminal Office, as well as the intelligence coordinator of the Chancellor's Office and senior Ministry officials."

Bild am Sontag did not have information about who was paying the Blackwater commandos: it is well-known they do not come cheap.

RT has more:

In March, media reports appeared suggesting that the coup-imposed government in Kiev could have employed up to 300 mercenaries.That was before the new government launched a military operation against anti-Maidan activists, or “terrorists” as Kiev put it, in southeast Ukraine.


At the time, the Russian Foreign Ministry said then that reports claiming Kiev was planning to involve “involve staff from foreign military companies to ‘ensure the rule of law,’” could suggest that it wanted “to suppress civil protests and dissatisfaction.”


In particular, Greystone Limited, which is currently registered in Barbados and is a part of Academi Corporation, is a candidate for such a gendarme role. It is a similar and probably an affiliated structure of the Blackwater private army, whose staff have been accused of cruel and systematic violations of human rights in various trouble spots on many occasions.


“Among the candidates for the role of gendarme is the Barbados-registered company Greystone Limited, which is integrated with the Academi corporation,” the Foreign Ministry said in a statement. “It is an analogue, and, probably and affiliated body of the Blackwater private army, whose employees have repeatedly been accused of committing grievous and systematic human rights abuses in different troubled regions.”

As this is not the first time Academi has been implicated in the Ukraine, its canned response is already prepared. This is what it said back on March 17:

Some irresponsible bloggers and an online reporter have recently posted rumors that ACADEMI employees (operating under the name of Blackwater) are present in Ukraine. They are not and ACADEMI has no relationship with any entity named Blackwater or with the former owner of Blackwater, Erik Prince. Such unfounded statements combined with the lack of factual reporting to support them and the lack of context about the company, are nothing more than sensationalistic efforts to create hysteria and headlines in times of genuine crisis.

The basics: Those who understand the facts know that Erik Prince sold the company (which he had renamed 'Xe') in 2010 and retained the rights to the 'Blackwater' name. The new management of ACADEMI has made tremendous efforts to build a responsible, transparent company ethos, evidenced by the numerous awards ACADEMI has received for being among the most compliant companies in our industry. More information can be found here.

Sure enough, moments ago the soldier for hire company followed up with a second denial, when as German Zeit reported, "the U.S. security services denied a ZEIT ONLINE  report, that it has put mercenaries in Ukraine."

Of course, since no western entity, and certainly not the company itself, would ever admit its involvement in the Ukraine as it would promptly crash the official US foreign policy track claiming US non-involvement in Ukraine, none of this is surprising.

Readers may have greater luck inquiring Blackwater directly via their Twitter account. After all #AskJPM was such a smashing success we don't see a reason why #AskBlackwater wouldn't work just as well.

Finally, in this proxy war between west and east, to believe that the US won't throw everything it can at Putin is naive, and as such the involvement of trained US mercenaries in Ukraine is beyond debate.

However what is certainly surprising and far more interesting, is the persistent attempts by the German press to discredit none other than their biggest "Developed world" ally, the US. It is almost as if someone (a quite wealthy and powerful someone) has material interests that diverge with those of the Obama administration, and hence converge with those of Putin. Alongside the emerging China-Russia axis, keeping tabs on just how close to Russia Germany is willing to get, is easily the most notable story in the entire Ukraine conflict.


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Sun, 05/11/2014 - 13:00 | 4748229 So Close
So Close's picture

I'm thinking Putin wins hands down.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 13:06 | 4748240 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I've got Derek Jeter have a career year with one more ring.

Still...he can't catch (so to speak) Yogi Berra and his Nine. "90% of this game is half mental" as he said....among many other classics.

Where is Andy VanSlyke these days anyways? He had some great one-liners too. Something other than "we fight" and "you die" and shit.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 13:07 | 4748246 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Making predictions is tough.  Especially about the future.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 13:15 | 4748262 Keyser
Keyser's picture

True, although I predict one of these mercs will get captured and exposed on utube in grand fashion, further proving the west's involvement in this little charade...  Ok, call it more of a wish than a prediction... 



Sun, 05/11/2014 - 13:21 | 4748276 hobopants
hobopants's picture

When all else fails...Send in the war criminals!

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 13:24 | 4748288 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Not the name of the game for mercs.
Executed out of hand when/if captured.Hopefully shot.
The other incentive package.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 13:32 | 4748298 hobopants
hobopants's picture

I've seen footage of them in Iraq that was enough to churn my stomach, evil incarnate.

The scary thing is they seem to be the defacto "who you gonna call?" for civil unrest these days, especially in the states.

Makes you wonder what happens when they let them loose and the money runs out.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 13:34 | 4748311 EatYourCornTake...
EatYourCornTakeyourPill's picture

Oh is Russia Today a German source now?

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 14:15 | 4748349 Arius
Arius's picture

Baltic states is the end game. Now just warming up.

Kerry was very clear: NATO allies is the red line. it seems there are some russian minorities in the Baltic states (lituania, estonia etc,).... until then it is just warming up phase...

I suppose first would come Moldova independence of russian minorities with this Deputy Premier getting stuck there ... then is the END OF THE GAME with the baltic states .... hope you do not reside in one of the targets ... am sure everything has been planned well in advance.


the germans are playing the "discredit America" role (the emperor has no clothes someone has to say it) .... Merkel did not visit Washington, for 3 years ("mad" at evesdropping on her ...right) few articles along these lines by Der Spiegel ... now this, ohhh... i forgot they got freedom of press over there ... ehhh, things that do really matter like gold .... thats okay take your time 7-17 years take your pick...

all these STRONG MAN Putin pictures, it reminds me the pictures of the Chinese premier visiting US back w/ opening of China ... someone thought of Texas hat for his little head ... well it always works, creating NEW images .... THE NEW WORLD folks thats about it ... new players...


EDIT: almost forgot to blame OBAMA for all of this ... it surely must give me some green dough over here... alot of uninformed citizens it seems to my untrained eye

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 14:46 | 4748491 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

Interesting read from Raymond Merriman (Obama fan who had swallowed the MSM slant on the Ukraine)about attending a funeral "in Kassel, Germany of a great man. He was part of an impressive family that included major bank executives, executives at major international corporations.." 

Excerpts of what the Germans said to him regarding the Ukraine, Russia and the USA:

"Russia and Putin have been very reliable in delivering oil as they have promised to us for many years. They have not let us down, and they have an economic motive to stay the course with us. The Americans, on the other hand, why should we believe we can depend upon you and your promises?" “We are more concerned with America’s urge to expand their influence and their markets at our expense, and their tendency to interfere with and try to influence our lives."

Link--tab down to Longer Term Influences heading

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 14:59 | 4748516 strannick
strannick's picture

Blackwater Mercs, CIA schemes, false flags, MSM selective biased propaganda. American style democracy in action.

America ruins the world to rule it.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 16:48 | 4748779 Lore
Lore's picture

Time is not on the side of the psychopaths. The longer Putin demonstrates reserve, the more respect he garners and the more people want to hitch their wagons.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 18:44 | 4749074 Gaius Frakkin' ...
Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

These fucking mercs made themselves fighting in shit-holes against morons. I doubt they've ever encountered the special forces from another nation which has its shit together. I wager Academia will get its asses slapped right after its balls are kicked in.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 19:32 | 4749181 MacGruber
MacGruber's picture

Huh, Academi rejects the claim, I'm inclined to believe them as there would be no value to Ukraine or the U.S. If they are there it's a stupid waste of money:

As dramatic as the concept of U.S. mercinaries operating in Ukraine is, it wouldn't make sense from a variety of standpoints. This is cheesdick reporting at best, Zero Hedge I think has acquired new bloggers that are more interested in tabloid reporting rather than what it used to be known for, namely insightful well written pieces that added value rather than over the top speculative fantasies, end of times style reporting...

I know I'm gonna get junked because there are a lot of new members that are deep into conspiracies of any type. Enjoy the circle jerk..

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 19:41 | 4749205 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Sorry MacGruber but I junked you because reports of US mercenaries prevalent also in the Russian media, with videos and body counts. Of course the coup leaders are using mercenaries because without them,they would already be dead, killed by their own forces.

It won't matter much anyways because with home turf advantage, the spetsnaz will use them for target and knife practise. Hope these Academi types don't mind choking on their own dicks.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 19:54 | 4749269 MacGruber
MacGruber's picture

Sorry my latina loving friend, that we can agree on ;) "Prevalent in the Russian media", think about that for a second... If you mean RT then you must also take all of Putin's statements at face value. Russian media is even more captured than in the U.S. If you can show me a video clip with faces and positive IDs by family members in their native countries then I'll believe you, but if it's based on propaganda from Russia it's gonna be a hard sell. 

You're explaination is overly simplistic. Ukraine could use mercinaries from Poland or Slovakia if they are afraid of loyalty, and it would come at a fourth the price. Also, if you mean coup leaders, as in the leadership in Ukraine, they have command and control of their forces as evidenced by them burning down a building with pro-Russian sepratists in it. If they were going to disobey orders they would have already done it. Now if you say it was mercinaries that burned that building down I'm gonna have to laugh, well, just because... 

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 20:37 | 4749396 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

I upvoted you MacGruber because I believe you are trying to be objective. I have watched youtube videos in russian and ukrainian, and have friends living there, so I have some confidence in my beliefs.
Moreover, if the Coup government in Kiev had control, how did they lose Crimea without a single casulty suffered by the Russians? Anyways, black water mercs will matter little once Russia decides to teach Kiev a few lessons in realpolitik.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 22:37 | 4749645 MacGruber
MacGruber's picture

I appreciate your view that I'm trying to be objective, it's better than other folks on here that frankly speak out of their ass and try to back up statements with insults.

So your friends over there have told you they've spoken to paid foreign forces? Just curious, that would go a long way to changing my view. The better question is how was the coup possible without some level of popular support? Crimea was lost to Russia without a single lost Russian because Kiev, wisely, told their troops to not shoot at the Russians because it would have given the Russians justification for their actions. Further, the Ukrainian army being vastly out numbered didn't want to start a shooting war that was lost from the outset - I think Sun Tzu said something about that... Putin is a tatician, he played his cards perfectly knowing how to paralyze the west just like he did in Georgia.

As for the last statement, I fully agree with you, blackwater mercinaries would lose to Russia. That's precisely why there likely aren't any there, western commanders know that mercinaries wouldn't changee the balance of power in any meaningful way. If a shooting war does break out, 400 men with light weapons aren't gonna do much for the cause, and all it would take is one of them to be shot and paraded in the streets for Kiev to lose all credibility, they aren't gonna take that chance - in my view.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 23:29 | 4749777 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

If there are Merc's in the ukraine, it is to protect the kiev coup leaders, since they cannot trust their domestic help. Think Swiss guards 'protecting' the Pope.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 00:23 | 4749855 European American
European American's picture

The ONLY thing that matters to me, as a proud American patriot, is that the 400 are captured, then immediately burned alive, hanging upside down, from the nearest bridge. 

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 01:13 | 4749914 MacGruber
MacGruber's picture

Plausible but not very likely. The suggestion is that there are NO people loyal to the Kiev government, and that's just not true. This was a populist coup, that may or may not have been helped along by outside forces but none the less populist. The Kiev military already had their chance to wrest power from the interim government and they didn't take it. I don't know why this has to be a vast U.S. lead conspiracy, the simpler explanation gets us to the same place. 

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 01:34 | 4749940 Mistress Raindrop
Mistress Raindrop's picture

Why am I not surprised?  Bunch of criminals.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 20:44 | 4749413 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

It doesn't matter where the mercs are from. They could be from Vanuatu, or Easter Island for all I care.

What matters is this: the company hiring them is American (run by Americans, headquartered in Virginia). Even more important, they are PAID with American money (Ukraine has no doe for such crap, and won't have for a long, long time...). On the good side, nobody will cry after them when they'll buy their ticket, Russian style.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 22:38 | 4749654 MacGruber
MacGruber's picture

The implication of the article is that there are WESTERN mercinaries doing the work. There is a big difference who does the fighting in terms of perception on the ground. 

And you have specific proof of this U.S. money flow how? 

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 23:10 | 4749743 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

Nobody has "specific proof" of anything. But I know who is giving free cookies in Kiev nowadays...

Ukraineans (neirther side) have no money for their own survival. The new government doesn't pay its bills and it's publicly begging for money from "patriots" to support its military (or rather what's left of it...). On the other hand, "somebody" just spent 5 billion USD to start up a bonfire over there for no good reason. It's not exactly rocket science to see who is pulling the strings, and who has the means (unlike Americans, Ukraineans cannot print US dollars).

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 01:08 | 4749903 MacGruber
MacGruber's picture

Yet in light of no specific proof the tendency is towards a complicated choice that makes little sense to any of the parties involved? 

Usually the simplest explanation is the right one. The simplest explanation is that Ukraine is a strategic piece of land that has been fought over for centuries. A large faction of Ukrainians see themselves as wanting to be more European, Putin sees this as a threat and responds. This simple scenario is just as plausible, and based on evidence, much more likely.

The coup in Kiev isn't sustainable if only the few people in it support it. Remember this wasn't a military coup so they don't have the force of arms to enforce it. To say the U.S. has a big reason to pick a fight over Ukraine is stupid, if anyone has a dog in the game it's Europe, and it's obvious they don't have a dire interest in it otherwise they would have already started moving hardware to the border. 

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 04:39 | 4750084 hobopants
hobopants's picture

"Fuck the EU" remember that wonderful conversation? To question the level of US involvment on the ground in this is fine, but to deny it playing a significant part in instigating it is being willfully ignorant. US has a history of supporting rebels and fomenting unrest.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 05:38 | 4750109 BorisTheBlade
BorisTheBlade's picture

There is nothing for US to gain from meddling in messy Ukrainian politics. However, by virtue of fiercely supporting current administration in Kiev it dragged itself into internal quarrels, willingly or not defines whether it's a question or intent or strategic blunder. As far as money goes, here is the man who was appointed by the current administration in Kiev to 'govern' Eastern provinces and who proposed use of foreign mercenaries: . Whether he did it because he was bright enough to propose such a thing or under careful advisement of US administration is unclear, however there is an indication US was working with Ukrainian oligarchs and put considerable pressure on them:

So, when it does matter US is quick to pressure Ukrainian oligarchs into compliance and they did and one oligarch was given an honour to finance mercenaries so as to give his handlers plausible deniability in case entire affair goes the way of the dodo. Kolomoisky himself will perhaps end up in London with no further repercussions suffered and part of his assets intact.

The simplest explanation is that Ukraine is a strategic piece of land that has been fought over for centuries. A large faction of Ukrainians see themselves as wanting to be more European, Putin sees this as a threat and responds. This simple scenario is just as plausible, and based on evidence, much more likely.

Not to suggest that your entire premise of simplest explanation being the right one isn't questionable by itself, but what evades me and for what I couldn't find a proper explanation even from Ukrainians who seemingly want to be more 'European' what prevents from being more European without squandering their relations with Russia? Second, does Europe want Ukraine to be part of the EU? Do they propose to finance current mess that Ukrainian economy is at the moment, or they would expect Russia or US to do that. See, from Putin's perspective the situation whereby Kiev government takes orders from Brussels or Washington and money from Moscow is quite laughable, they want to sit on two chairs which are not necessarly moving in the same direction. So, there goes the Russian part and whether Ukrianians want to speak English, drink Coca Cola of run around naked screaming 'screw Russia' is irrelevant so long as they don't start killing each other and creating scores of refugees on the Russian border. As far as Europe, having another troublesome economy, which in addition carries a legacy of Chernobyl when debacles of other Eastern European economies are from being resolved would be an act suicide simply because they cannot afford it. So, there goes the European one.

What's left? Since we are talking about a simple explanation, here is quite simple one: US sees a threat to its position as dominant power if Russia reestablishes its sphere of influence (of which Ukraine is an important if not pivotal part) and prevents it with any means possible. It will fail, but not because Putin will draw the troops in act of desperation, rather because the plan is stupid and dangerous and so deeply engraved with Russophobia that it stinks to high heaven.

BTW, MacGruber is hilarious.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 14:45 | 4751650 MacGruber
MacGruber's picture

I think we're agreeing, just from a slightly different perspective. I see the Ukrainian move to embrace Europe as a way of turning away from Russian hegemony. I believe there is a faction of Ukrainians that don't want to slide back under the iron curtain - been there, done that. We Americans do have Russophobia for sure, but I think the Ukrainians do as well. After all they lived under Soviet rule, they know more about what a Russian increased sphere of influence means more than we do. I don't think they intended to totally poison the waters with Russia, but things got (maybe predictably) out of hand - U.S. involvement didn't help. They probably knew that ousting Yanukovych would bring consequences but naively didn't imagine that Putin would respond as intently as he has. Obviously the complete tactical blindside in Crimea is an example; Kiev could have closed the border, stopped the ferries in Kerch and mobilized their troops early, but didn't do any of those things. It's like tightening your gut for a punch, but they didn't have the instinct.

I don't think the EU wants Ukraine as a member, they want Ukraine to be for them what Putin wants, a buffer and occasional policy proxy. Them being economically weak is good for either Russia or the EU, it's easy to ask favors from someone that is broke. Neither had plans to fix Ukraine.

I'm not saying that any of this was well thought out, but the original premise the the U.S., Kiev, NATO, or EU members would be dumb enough to allow U.S. mercenaries on Ukrainian soil is baffling. Maybe I'm totally wrong, the U.S. does have a tradition of stupid moves, but it would be counter productive. 

Good discussion! I see your point of view and definitely food for thought, will be interesting to see this unfold... We definitely live in the most interesting period of human history.

Haha, thanks, I think it was his Miata that inspired me...

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 21:26 | 4749529 Aussie V
Aussie V's picture

You're explaination is overly simplistic. Ukraine could use mercinaries from Poland or Slovakia if they are afraid of loyalty, and it would come at a fourth the price.


Are you kiddin??? The Polish Army has always used Polish Soldiers. When is the last time Poland won anything like a war?

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 21:51 | 4749595 Oliver Klozoff
Oliver Klozoff's picture

Not as long as it's gonna take you to pull your ass off of your head.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 00:32 | 4749865 Aussie V
Aussie V's picture

Oooh Touchy!!!

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 22:27 | 4749662 MacGruber
MacGruber's picture

LOL! Way to make an arguement against a point I wasn't making. You're one of those crafty new peeps on this site I was talking about, flamboyant (Hilter avatars are so in, way to appear openly racist) and vacuous all at the same time... Hats off.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 00:35 | 4749869 Aussie V
Aussie V's picture

You generaiise! The hitler avatar is a gif file that IF it worked correctly would have Hitler groovin to a pretend tune however, it doesn't work here.

I am not a Nazi or am I a radical right winger. I made an attempt at humour. Sometimes yoou hit and sometimes you miss.

If the Hitler avatar offends you I'm not hung up on it I will change it. As well, I have been coming here for years under another monika which I never used and eventuall forgot my login. So, I joined again!

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 05:50 | 4750124 Advoc8tr
Advoc8tr's picture

Other times you hit and miss :P

Camel toes and big tits are always popular and resonably neutral avatar material LMAO

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 01:28 | 4749929 matrix2012
matrix2012's picture

This MacGruber joined ZH for 3 years 6 weeks; 6 posts to date (1st one on April 25, 2014)


Will any sober BCer buy this MacGruber's mercenaries shits of Blackwater / Xi / Academi / Greystone Limited ???

This MacGruber has been member of ZH for: 3 years 6 weeks

and all the shits he had vomitted were started on 2014-04-25,  six posts to date, dominated by the ones whitewashing those mercenaries!


Sounds like more a sleeping cell if the joining date is anything...and on the payroll of the Agencies!! lol


it's just a pure waste of time to ever argue with this F*ing shill or troll!!

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 01:55 | 4749981 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

um psychopaths may have a two way street here, they're not exclusive to the west (they don't even perceive the west) which they are trying, so successfully to dismantle.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 03:58 | 4750065 old naughty
old naughty's picture

west-east, north-south...

no stop for them, no?

And all those recent knife slaughters in China...hummmmmmm. Ponder, ponder.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 04:27 | 4750079 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

east-west counts for a lot in African domination and chaos

China needs a terrorist meme so add in the missing flights, Russia had it pre olympics, the west got far worse (9/11 Londing etc)

same same ending... not a happy one just a controlling one,; apparently Rockefellers private Interpol needs more power and status. Technocracy.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 17:56 | 4748953 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

upvote for bringing Mr. Merriman to the mix. . .

for what it's worth, he was supportive of the Bush government in his past articles, and has never tipped his hand as to his "voting" stance - given his chart (details he openly shares), he's more pro-America than party-player - he's a pretty classic old school "business-man" getting a strong wake-up call as to just how this nationstate "operates" in the World. . . I like that he admits his own "illusions" via transits,

Even so, the suddenness of the turn in just the past few months has surprised me. The Uranus-Pluto square had, after all, formed a T-square to my own natal Neptune, planet of delusion. I think most Americans missed this shift that was – is - occurring under Uranus square Pluto. I thought the Russians and perhaps Europeans were under the spell of their media, but not so much America. But in America, we are too.


I usually don't agree with his perspective(s), but respect that he's as honest as he can be with his readers/subscribers, unlike the sociopaths that surround him in his chosen profession.

and he's very successful, and respected, for applying transits to business cycles.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 13:56 | 4748366 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

I see links to several German sources as well as RT and Academi. Reading is fundamental, dipshit.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 18:43 | 4752575 mkkby
mkkby's picture

If Americans ever decide to take back their democracy, these are the merc we can expect to see.  We know their ways now.  They'll be in crowds acting as agent provocatuers.  They'll be on rooftops with rifles, targeting anyone who appears to be opposing gov.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 15:33 | 4748593 Bingo Hammer
Bingo Hammer's picture

Ok I'm officially naming you the new "Million Dollar Bonus" of ZH...thanks for the comedy 

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 16:03 | 4748673 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

Merikans are busy watching Dancing with the Idols, Duck Dynasty and Flipping Houses for a living, these poor folks are fighting for their survival, Ukrainian vs. Ukrainian.

Tragic. Simply Tragic.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 21:45 | 4749575 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

I'm sure they find your concern very useful.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 14:04 | 4748390 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

The money never runs out.  The only question is who has it and is willing to pay.  I would not be surprised to see a private source employing mercenaries at some point soon.  Sure this is nothing new in the 3rd world but how about in Europe?

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 14:16 | 4748423 hobopants
hobopants's picture

"The money never runs out."


You're right in a sense, but...


"We can guarantee cash benefits as far out and at whatever size you like, but we cannot guarantee their purchasing power." -Alan Greenspan

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 17:08 | 4748847 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

That is how forming a Military Junta operates when installing a Fascist Milton Friedman Chicago School of Economics Bankster / CIA run Totalitarian Authoritarian Militarized Police State is organized.

Chili and Pinochle experiment comes to mind.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 01:53 | 4749951 matrix2012
matrix2012's picture

here's more info on the regime change methodology as of 1950s and read their many success stories worldwide over the last six decades:


A Timeline of CIA Atrocities | By Steve Kangas


The following timeline describes just a few of the hundreds of atrocities and crimes committed by the CIA.

CIA operations follow the same recurring script. First, American business interests abroad are threatened by a popular or democratically elected leader. The people support their leader because he intends to conduct land reform, strengthen unions, redistribute wealth, nationalize foreign-owned industry, and regulate business to protect workers, consumers and the environment. So, on behalf of American business, and often with their help, the CIA mobilizes the opposition.


First it identifies right-wing groups within the country (usually the military), and offers them a deal: "We'll put you in power if you maintain a favorable business climate for us." The Agency then hires, trains and works with them to overthrow the existing government (usually a democracy). It uses every trick in the book: propaganda, stuffed ballot boxes, purchased elections, extortion, blackmail, sexual intrigue, false stories about opponents in the local media, infiltration and disruption of opposing political parties, kidnapping, beating, torture, intimidation, economic sabotage, death squads and even assassination. These efforts culminate in a military coup, which installs a right-wing dictator.


The CIA trains the dictator’s security apparatus to crack down on the traditional enemies of big business, using interrogation, torture and murder. The victims are said to be "communists," but almost always they are just peasants, liberals, moderates, labor union leaders, political opponents and advocates of free speech and democracy. Widespread human rights abuses follow.


This scenario has been repeated so many times that the CIA actually teaches it in a special school, the notorious "School of the Americas." (It opened in Panama but later moved to Fort Benning, Georgia.) Critics have nicknamed it the "School of the Dictators" and "School of the Assassins." Here, the CIA trains Latin American military officers how to conduct coups, including the use of interrogation, torture and murder.



History of Iran: A short account of 1953 Coup

Coup 53 of Iran is the CIA's (Central Intelligence Agency) FIRST successful overthrow of a foreign government.

    But a copy of the agency's secret history of the coup has surfaced, revealing the inner workings of a plot that set the stage for the Islamic revolution in 1979, and for a generation of anti-American hatred in one of the Middle East's most powerful countries. The document, which remains classified, discloses the pivotal role British intelligence officials played in initiating and planning the coup, and it shows that Washington and London shared an interest in maintaining the West's control over Iranian oil.

Read the rest here:


Wars: CIA US War Script


Hmm... sounds familiar?

Read on...even the POTUS's mother was heavily involved in the Agency's operations...


Sun, 05/11/2014 - 15:58 | 4748644 DanDaley
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For the mercs, it's mostly about hunting men -as Hemingway said, once you've done that, nothing else compares...that and the bucks, nothing else.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 19:43 | 4749233 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Its fun to hunt men unless they are hunting you.....

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 22:14 | 4749640 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

Its fun to hunt men unless they are hunting you.....


¡Correctamundo! Something our increasingly militarized cops would do well to take into account.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 16:51 | 4748786 fonestar
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I've seen footage of them in Iraq that was enough to churn my stomach, evil incarnate.

That's right hobo.  These corporate, trillionaire boy-toys are a disgrace to the professional soldier.  At least the nationalist soldier can (maybe?) claim ignorance over who they really serve.  Blackwater, OTH....

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 18:03 | 4748975 Cathartes Aura
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stand firm,

At least the nationalist soldier can (maybe?) claim ignorance over who they really serve.

they all kill for money, some just get paid more than the others.

uni-form'd - if by ignorance or poverty, then spare a thought for who they kill, in their OWN home-lands.

and who benefits.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 00:57 | 4749891 evernewecon
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After privatization, then 

austerity, then enlisting

to get fed, isn't the military

part pyramidal?


After the lower rank service,

get promoted or leave?


But if coming from the 

French Foreign Legion,

if one did KP, they could

go on to either of 2 paths.


Cordon Bleu.  Or serve

french fries with mayonnaise

in Brussels.


Sun, 05/11/2014 - 13:40 | 4748324 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Their employer probably has a life insurance policy on them with the company as beneficiary.

"Mr. Prince, we lost one, but we scored $5mil. from insurance, and with the economy so bad we have 100 candidates to replace him."

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 13:49 | 4748346 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

Like the way banks insure their employees and then arranges nail gun accidents?

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 20:51 | 4749432 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Nailed it!

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 18:13 | 4749005 Iocosus
Iocosus's picture

Soldiers are uninsurable, but I understood your point.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 21:33 | 4749548 UselessEater
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In know its true of government soliders but is it true for private "security" personnel?

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 14:18 | 4748429 Jack Burton
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Winston, If any of these "JerkWater" commandoes are captured by Armed East Ukrainian Federalists, you are correct, the Mercs have no legal protection of any kind under international law. They should be shot out of hand on the battle field. They have come to play war against a civilian population, and come to play at war for money, who would argue they have any rights on the battle field? Certainly not me. Certainly not anyone living in lands invaded by American paid thugs. It does not amaze me that our American Patriots who post their support for Kiev's coup leades and for the CIA run Ukrainian security forces here on ZH, also remain silent when facts of US direct control of the fighting emerge. Facts are not their game, at all costs they will not direct their comments to facts, only to their illusion of absolute American power over all peoples of earth, they all now must answer to Washington DC and it's new role as the absolute central state power of earth. When they post their tears over not getting their way, these State Department types never, ever confront a fact, because they have their own facts, all made up in their minds, nothing must side track their exceptional belief in their exception right to power. I can only assume these posters believe this new modern American "right to rule" is god given?

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 16:27 | 4748728 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Jack Burton said:

Mercs have no legal protection of any kind under international law. They should be shot out of hand on the battle field.

Yes, at the very least they should be shot on the battlefield. At the very least.

They have come to play war against a civilian population, and come to play at war for money, who would argue they have any rights on the battle field? Certainly not me. Certainly not anyone living in lands invaded by American paid thugs.

I ask every American who is still controlled by a lifetime of anti-Russian propaganda to look at this. This is corporate America in action, a US government approved mercenary murder squad. They're not defending anything, they are being paid to murder unarmed Ukrainians: mothers (on Mothers' Day here in the US), fathers, grandparents, teenagers, little boys, and little girls.

Their paymasters are a clique of criminal puppets, controlled by Vichy DC, pretending to be the Ukrainian government who, in what the US government described as admirable restraint in restoring law and order, barbequed fellow Ukrainians.

They barbequed their own people.

The people that the corporate American murder squads are killing are Ukrainians, not Russians, who for the most part aren't even separatists, but federalists. They aren't looking to join up with Russia, they just want to get out from under the brutal Nazi junta that has taken over Kiev.

Every single thing that Russia has been accused of doing is in fact what the Ukrainian "officials" have been doing or are currently planning, as they dance at the ends of strings held by the puppetmasters in Vichy DC.

Hey, remember how they accused the Syrian government of chemical attacks? Funny how those attacks instead turned out to have been carried out by the US government supported "Syrian freedom fighters" (from North African Syria, Arabian Peninsula Syria, Turkish Syria, Jordanian Syria, Iraqi Syria, Afghani Syria, Pakistani Syria, Chechen Syria, French Syria, British Syria, etc), also known as "The Good Al Qaida".

Funny how our rulers in Vichy DC end up doing everything that they've accused others of doing, isn't it? What an odd coincidence.

Hang on to your blinders for dear life, or else you might discover how many things you've known about the USA your entire life are illusions and lies.

As for the American corporate mercenary murder squads killing Ukrainian familes, I hope that any which are captured are subjected to the same Enhanced Interrogation® methods used in Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib (which makes them legal according to secret US law) until they talk. About everything. Then let the Ukrainians they've been paid to murder decide what to do with them. They should be so lucky as to be hanged in public.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 17:32 | 4748907 fencejumper
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Very good, TheFourthStoog-ing; agree completely.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 18:07 | 4748984 Cathartes Aura
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righteous eloquence.

and all Truth.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 19:22 | 4749172 FreedomGuy
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While there are some valid points, at least to a degree in your post you have obviously never talked to Soviet defectors and people who lived behind the old iron curtain. If you think it is just a matter of anti-Russian propoganda over a lifetime you have outsmarted yourself. Communism and it's depradations and aggressiveness are very real all around the world. They are not American fake conspiracy theories and propoganda, at least outside of those countries.

I have not yet seen American paid mercenaries rounding up Ukrainians and murdering them. That disconnects in a number of ways, mainly that Ukraine wants to let in foreign elements to either kill their own side or lose all international support. Outside of basement conspiracy theories and blogs I have not seen any reliable evidence.

If you believe all the BS you spout and you are American you should be emigrating somewhere that is not so terrible.

I am no supported of our Comrade in Chief but frankly, I believe he and John Kerry Gump are more the bumbling idiot types that mercenary hiring baby killers.

I wish the Ukrainians well in sorting out their own destiny and achieving something significantly better than the dark days of the USSR.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 20:11 | 4749325 NickVegas
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"Bumbling idiot" seems to be sweeping the propaganda airways, "don't worry, be happy".


2. When in doubt, refer to rule 1.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 20:28 | 4749374 fencejumper
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FreedomGuy, as I read your last sentence the words that come to me are: look around your America with an open mind and behold the dark days of the USA

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 20:10 | 4752853 FreedomGuy
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I actually agree that dark days are approaching here and for a number of reasons. I am a member of an economics discussion group and we discuss it all the time. In a general way it is because of the ever leftward march of our country to centrally planned, well controlled surveillance and permission state. It is right in front of our faces.

That does not necessarily mean I agree with every conspiracy, every "guy behind the curtain", every evil genius, manchurian candidate idea posted here, either.

I think Ukraine is a mess. I think there are many factions, Russian, American, neo-commie, neo-fascist, and local autonomy groups.  It is going to be a mess before it is all over and historically the stats favor some new autocratic regime where the primary benefit is "order".

And when someone eventually comes to power, whoever it may be, what invisible conspiracies will be postulated here? Why wait, just throw some out now?


Sun, 05/11/2014 - 20:51 | 4749427 chemystical
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"you have obviously never talked to Soviet defectors"

and you are conflating the USSR with Russia.

"I have not yet seen American paid mercenaries rounding up Ukrainians and murdering them. That disconnects in a number of ways, mainly that Ukraine wants to let in foreign elements to either kill their own side or lose all international support. Outside of basement conspiracy theories and blogs I have not seen any reliable evidence."

Oh, so the new UKR regime installed by the CIA, the IMF, the State Dept ad fucking nauseum, were all too happy to let those masters call the tune, but they draw the line at letting them call the rest of the tunes?  Or do you deny CIA/State Dept/IMF involvement?

You haven't seen any reliable evidence because either your eyes or your mind or both are closed.

And you dare to call another poster's words BS. 

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 23:26 | 4749769 UselessEater
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The CIA, IMF etc are meddling atrociously as befits their mandates. That does not preclude that Russia's cronies have been meddling as well. Questioning Russia's meddling isn't necessarily hanging onto Cold War propoganda.

Taking the emotion out of the debate for the moment; there are many pointers indicating this might be a carefully staged conflict consistent with justifying the destruction of the West by those with globalist loyalties.

"All wars are bankers wars" playing boths sides with elites from both sides profiting is not unknown to us. The Anglo-American alliance knew all the stuff linked below before this escalated, deals must have been been done in closed back rooms (most gov'ts are servants to elites not citizens) and it could be niave to not consider Russian elites being cooperative and involved at some level. Seems rather extraordinary that the BRICS are so far down the line with their "alternative" bank. Seems rather convenient the increasing number of ways the USD is being cut out... all a little too convenient.

We in the west have lost our ability to shut down the CIA, BIS/IMF, 5 Eyes and all that Breakaway Civilisation infrastructure meddling "in our name"; that doesn't mean they haven't climbed into bed with equally sick and twisted Russian or Chinese elites who are not paragons of virtue (they too see 'Competition as a Sin') and who also see profit in the beneficial west to east swing.

Will the Anglo-American Breakway Civilisation retain control of these BRICS rising powers? We don't know, but they have off-the-book weapons, potentially a stronger private military power than left in the hands of the American national military and a great desire for population reduction and no national loyalty -consider the might of the British Royals through webs of foundations and corporations and their German not English bonds.

Deceit about an engineered travesty in Ukraine by all players is entirely plausible, IMO its all very grey and it seems a little too easy to pick a side, a condition which is necessary basis for formenting war and a re-new push towards what could become another global war.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 01:13 | 4749913 Volkodav
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Ignorant post

Soviet was never a Russian construct.

From 1917 thru Stalin was never Russians in charge.

Soviet is defunct

Get over it

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 01:38 | 4749949 UselessEater
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I understood it as a construct with leaders that had external backing but perhaps went a little rogue.

Ideology is irrelevant. Who's paying & playing today's piper?

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 02:41 | 4750018 matrix2012
matrix2012's picture

Found this comment by besnook that best describes the present situation:

It is a good thing but it is about the way they will go about it. Millions, maybe billions of people, will be directly, physically affected this time. I say this time because that was the point of WW1 and WW2. How is the dollar monopolizing 85% of world transactions (at its peak) not a global unified currency. It would have been virtually seamless to have just made the dollar the world currency. Even now, with the euro, it would be easy relatively speaking. The yuan and the petroruble threw a wrench on the plans.


He is right about the chain of events (War and a New Reserve Currency). He is right about Western banks playing both sides of the coin. Banks embody the adage that money is not patriotic. Of course Putin plays with the Western banks. They need him to make money. He needs them for political leverage. The elephant in the room is China, ally of Russia. The USA will not give up it's leadership of the New World Order. Russia and China want a shared, MULTIPOLAR WORLD with no one dominant player. China has repeatedly said it does NOT want the yuan to be the reserve currency. They want a basket of commodities(obviously led by gold). Russia and China are doing the same thing the USA did to the USSR, bankrupting them by diminishing the need for dollars forcing the USA to give up the lead position. Only then can a real New World Order be established. It is hardly a conspiracy of everyone with money.


The Zionist Western banking world wants to rule the world. China and Russia are suggesting a more equitable arrangement. It reminds me of the Pacific War in the 1940s. One of the issues was the division of the Pacific region amongst the Western powers and Japan made in the twenties(?). It was decided that Japan take a diminshed role, essentially the Northern Pacific, (there is nothing there except Pearl Harbor, Korea and Manchuria) while the USA, Britain, France and the Dutch split up the South Pacific and Southeast Asia. That was the New World Order of the day.


Japan didn't like being treated as a second rate power in its own backyard. Japan got pissed off and attacked Pearl Harbor when the West cut off Japan's oil supply, a guaranteed part of the deal. Today the USA has tried to treat Russia and China as junior partners in the present New World Order. The difference this time is the USA will initiate the World War upon provocation by Russia and China because the USA is economically vulnerable. Europe is caught in the middle again. The USA will play Britain this time, so far in debt after the war that the empire will be sold off and the people will ration neccessities for a dozen years so the war debt can be paid back to the bankers. Then the world will have to worry about how China and Russia want run things. New World Order, Tower Of Babel.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 03:12 | 4750042 UselessEater
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IMO has good points but does run a little off track - Pearl Harbour = false flag i.e. once upon a time Americans were very very reluctant to be drawn into far off wars.  The difference this time is the USA is painted as the artist for WW3, and its debt and isolation may be the PR tools used and all will ignore the magical corporate/elite interests behind the scenes cooperatiing with the BRICS, BIS, etc .... too tired to repost my previous arguments and various links.

Doubt everything friends this game is tiring.Your USA govt is treasonous because they are intentionally demonising you - fuck Snowden many better men have been killed as whistler blowers without a link to Omydier and the foundation useful idiots, Snowden has not told us anyhthing we did not know but is fuelling a hate of the west that is not of our making - unless you think we had a chance in hell of ridding ourselves of the Anglo-American Alliance, CIA, IMF, 5 Eyes, BIS, Interpol.... etc all linked to the same cretins hiding behind the skirts of Rockefeller, Kissinger, Breszinki.......

If interested review the Boer war and a few more from then on, we're being played.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 05:41 | 4750115 matrix2012
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check this book by Dean Henderson: "Big Oil & Their Bankers In The Persian Gulf: Four Horsemen, Eight Families & Their Global Intelligence, Narcotics & Terror Network"  9781453757734
Mon, 05/12/2014 - 06:08 | 4750139 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

Thanks love a book reference, the title is pretty apt but my mind should read: Global Bankers & Oil Families (the Fondi ie Foundations from centuries ago), Global Spying, Drugs Profits and Terror Manufacturing.

But whats the annunaki stuff the review peeps keep mentioning? Is this extending even the bounds of Catherine Austin Fitts (quite a fascinating person IMO).


Mon, 05/12/2014 - 20:21 | 4752895 FreedomGuy
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Yeah, Japan was a peaceful prospering empire until nasty USA and West cut off oil. It's not like they also surprise attacked the Russians at Port Arthur or that they steadily advanced across Manchuria and Cina without the cheerful support of the locals. Yeah, the East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere was developed by the nice militarists in Japan to help all the struggling nations of Asia. No junior partners to Japan. Everyone was going to be equal in the new order established by Japan. The invasions were to set these countries free.

If they had invaded the West we all would be happily freed from Zionist bankers. That would have been the goal of imperial Japan?

And the answer is what...some new order of autocratic government by a different elite?

Couint me out.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 07:57 | 4750238 Confused
Confused's picture

"If you believe all the BS you spout and you are American you should be emigrating somewhere that is not so terrible."


This is the worst argument one can make. The US was founded by people with a dissenting voice. Leaving is akin to remaining quite and complicit in the actions by a state. Suggesting he leaves for somewhere else, is completely unAmerican, and disrespects the founders and all the people who "left" for something better. It is societys responsiblity to ensure that it remains the place for immigrants (presumably few posters are American natives by lineage) who left for something better. It would appear we have all been asleep at the wheel. 

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 22:26 | 4749661 phaedrus1952
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+1,000,  Fourth

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 16:52 | 4748791 August
August's picture

>>>these posters believe this new modern American "right to rule" is god given?

I can't speak for what the certain posters believe, but there is little question that those in the Imperial Hierarchy who call the shots know for a fact that they are the only God there is.

To paraphrase Cole Porter and the Episcopal Church... Anything Goes!   Anything.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 15:06 | 4748525 Young Buckethead
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"Not the name of the game for mercs."

No, they're not covered by the Geneva Convention. Especially when they're caught in Spetsnaz uniforms.

It does provide a certain 'incentive' to survive at all costs, though.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 16:06 | 4748681 ObamaDepression
ObamaDepression's picture

Keep in mind the converse is true also: Spatnaz troops in no uniforms, just masks and cammos

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 15:22 | 4748563 patb
patb's picture

No, but Putin's guys will waterboard them, Videotape them and then cut their testicles off

and send them back.



Sun, 05/11/2014 - 15:48 | 4748627 Bingo Hammer
Bingo Hammer's picture

i can't wait to see that vid

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 16:49 | 4748781 mendolover
mendolover's picture

I believe traditionally they will slam them in the top drawer of a desk first then the slice.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 13:25 | 4748290 Manthong
Manthong's picture

This gets me to thinking about what those "contractors" that were hung from the bridge in Iraq some years ago were really up to.


Sun, 05/11/2014 - 13:33 | 4748309 chunga
chunga's picture

If these guys are really there, and are truly as described in this article, then this has to be a chess game that I don't understand.

Surely, the Russian "seperatists" would know about this, and at least film if not capture them. Exposing this would seem likely to blow off the lid, no?

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 13:57 | 4748367 neidermeyer
neidermeyer's picture

But how does Goldman Sachs benefit?

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 13:59 | 4748375 chunga
chunga's picture

They steal everyone's money?

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 15:07 | 4748526 Young Buckethead
Young Buckethead's picture

The Russians are well aware. Not to worry.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 16:08 | 4748690 First There Is ...
First There Is A Mountain's picture

Blow the lid off what exactly? Do you really think your average American cretin has any compunction whatsoever with American involvement in yet another foreign military quagmire, er, adventure? They've become de rigueur at this point, haven't they? I think you're laboring under the misunderstanding that Americans don't believe the "shining city on a hill" bullshit we've been indoctrinated into our entire lives; that we're some beacon of light unto the medieval world of the pinko menace. The Cold War binary is still alive in the hearts and minds of most low thinking Americans as witnessed by references to Putin as some kind of imperial dictator and "Kommie". And that binary thinking must stay firmly entrenched in the collective American psyche in order for the majority of Americans to subscribe to our interventionist banker-driven agenda. Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia....

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 16:57 | 4748808 Lore
Lore's picture

That is my observation locally as well, even with expats. The insularity and childlike lack of awareness is mind-boggling. 

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 17:04 | 4748818 chunga
chunga's picture

You're right about the average american that doesn't even pretend to be aware of current events. It's too late for them. But you've got these people on political sites that read and write about shit all day long. On the right, we've got people pining for the days of Ronnie Reagan demanding we "get tough" with the Russians and put up missile shields etc. Then on the left, we've got the hope and change crowd bragging about America with Obama at the helm and some moral authority bullshit.

It doesn't make sense to argue with Dancing with Stars people...but the other one's that are so cock-sure they know everything piss me off. Not as much as it did at one time; but it still pisses me off. Many I believe are cemented into their ideology and many others are nothing more than provocateurs. I just want to smack them.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 17:49 | 4748930 First There Is ...
First There Is A Mountain's picture

The problem here is one of insularity as mentioned in the other response to my post. Americans, except in some incredibly rare circumstances, have never seen the head of an innocent bystander get unzipped by some paramilitary skinhead or watched as Mexican forces massed near our border. Until such time as your average Bachelorette viewing bottom feeding cretin has personally felt the burn of white phosphorous or the wind rustle his hair as a 7.62 whistles past his head, absolutely fuck all will change. To some degree, it's great to be afforded this existence wherein we are not fretting for our lives on a day to day basis, but it has softened our resolve and made us entirely too reliant on Uncle Sugar.

And as I mentioned previously, the mind bending indoctrination evident in this country is simply astounding. I grew up in a rural farming community in southwestern CO and while some people are waking up and harbor some distrust of government mostly owing to petty local shit like access to certain ORV dirt tracks or something, the vast majority are as obedient and acquiescent as ever. Those people will put their hands over their hearts and salute the flag with the same mindless devotion of yesteryear never once thinking about what this shithole country has come to represent for them and the people unfortunate to be on the receiving end of our beneficent paternalism. In some respects, a lot of the old codgers are simply clinging to what this country once purportedly stood for even if they know in their hearts it's taking a nosedive. And you'd be VERY surprised to know how many Americans are actually proud of our interventionism as some sort of projection of power. A few scrapes with Russian regulars might change that a bit though.....

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 17:54 | 4748948 chunga
chunga's picture

I can't argue with anything you write. I wish I knew the answers but I don't.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 18:19 | 4749014 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

good exchange here,

to which I'll add - there is no "answer" beyond letting yourself acknowledge the Truths you see/know,

and realise that others exist in other realities, subject to all the possible horrors described above. 

we none of us are immune, and knowing that prepares us for whatever is incoming.  amrkns have had a long period of illusions propped up on the backs of others in the world,

and what goes around, is coming up from behind. . .

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 19:49 | 4749256 First There Is ...
First There Is A Mountain's picture

Question is, CA, are you going to stay and go toe to toe with some jackbooted thugs or bug out and let the parasites feed off the host until dead. I'm very conflicted on that one. My dear old dad and I debate this frequently. I have an apartment in Buenos Aires which isn't really satisfactory for rearing two children but it would do in a pinch I suppose. But then again, Argentina isn't exactly a paragon of stability these days either. Maybe with that dumb shit Kirchner out on her ear, things will improve but I'm skeptical. Wife is Brazilian and that country is possibly even closer to burning than Argentina I sometimes believe. Hard to know what to do, but my point being that I've not much hope in the American public waking up in time to arrest the fall. I'm not afraid of laying it down for my family and those who display some valor or worth, but I won't die for some apathetic Dodo bird who can't or refuses to see the writing on the wall.....

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 20:48 | 4749425 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I understand your points, and your question - hoping you'll perhaps understand my point of view. . .

while we each experience our lives from unique perspectives, we are also One with a Source - lots of "names" for that, Consciousness, All-That-Is - but really, it just Is, and we are That. . .

I've found that the more I stay centered in that Awareness, the less I worry about where I live "in the world" - or what may happen "next" - the thoughts do arise, and I do re-act, but I don't want to live in fear/anger - so I stay near those I love and respect, contribute to the community/whole, grow stuff, stay creative.

a test:  if you want to decide well, go with what lights you up, avoid what makes you feel weighed down. trust yourSelf.  gut over mind, every time!

best wishes.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 21:26 | 4749525 First There Is ...
First There Is A Mountain's picture

I can certainly respect that and admire your ability to stay grounded. I understand all too well what it is to be one with something greater. In this case, it's my daughters and my garden which tripled in size this year while my lawn shrank commensurately. Can't eat lawn after all. Anyway, I feel most attuned to whatever that thing is when I'm out digging in the dirt with my 5-year-old in tow. Closest thing to heaven for this guy. And while I used to think it was enough for me to stay centered in myself, I no longer get the impression that the demons are going to leave us alone that easily. Who knows. Maybe it's becoming a dad for the second time about 11 months ago that has got me thinking again. 

Anyway, part of my garden is currently under frost blankets as Colorado is being hit with a lovely little winter storm in May. Just some assorted varieties of lettuce, arugala and carrots up so far. We'll know in a few days if they made it. Let them catch a bit of snow to insulate them then threw the covers over them. Going to hit 26-27 tonight. Hate to have to replant this late but I'll roll with the punches. 

Best to you and yours as well....

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 23:24 | 4749763 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

mmm, arugala.

I feel most attuned to whatever that thing is when I'm out digging in the dirt with my 5-year-old in tow.

then you have Vision, and Purpose.  all of "this" that we love to entertain ourselves with, the global-narrative, is what it is, we have no control over it if we're honest. 

what we do have a measure of control over is what we give our attention to, and I too believe gardening & time with loved ones is an important balancing act.  again, always check in with your gut - if you're feeling *off* - change where you are directing your attention.

sometimes I like to scan the threads here, have a good laugh 'n' a growl. . . but if I start to carry it around with me when AFK, then I know I need to stop feeding the story, it's un-healthy.

here's hoping your new-growths weather the storms, that they become more hardy overall. . . like each of us, as we go.  pushin' back at the harsh elements, reaching up for the warmth when it's there.


Sun, 05/11/2014 - 21:29 | 4749538 old naughty
old naughty's picture free.

Thanks, CA.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 23:26 | 4749772 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

acceptance of what Is.

always welcome.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 03:24 | 4750045 matrix2012
matrix2012's picture

first there is... why don't consider the southeast asia? perhaps the northern parts, chiang mai / chiang rai is a good place (for sure they're peaceful/tolerant/safe, and low cost living), or other parts of sea (mas...places like penang isl; sabah/sarawak etc or ina or vie)... life is relatively affordable if you stay away from the capital cities there (and esp. the costly city-state spore), there are still many provincial-level places to settle down, still big ones and sufficiently developed though not as crowded and costly as the capital cities. just do the research.



Sun, 05/11/2014 - 20:40 | 4749399 sonoftx
sonoftx's picture

Recently I have put alot of thought into why so many in my family can't see that their country is not what it seems.  That their country has become the very thing that they despise.  For those in their 60's and 70's they for sure see the moral depravity but coming to the belief that their government would kill thousands of their own citizens for an agenda of power and money this is hard for them.  For the younger ones it's the overriding belief that most people are good and even if not good then societal mores will cause people to in the end do the right thing when tshtf.  But in the world we all grew up in everyone went to church on Sunday and said yes sir and no sir, and respected their parents even if in total disagreement, and when you turned 18 then you were an adult it was up to you to survive.  My family realizes many things in the busineess world but they are not willing to go all the way down the rabbit hole to the evil that is behind it all.  Really we are the Americans that the tptb love; it can still bring a tear to the eye to sing the national anthem at a Friday night football game, and we are the shining city on the hill.  As I work on my family now every chance I get I take the advice of Mr. Cog and know that everyone(like all things in life) must come to their own decisions in their own time.  What I do know is that when people such as my family and those still good families in southwestern CO make it to the bottom of the rabbit hole and are pushed you are much better off with them than almost anyone in South America.  Why, because even though we have lived in a type of make believe world, once we realize the truth, the truth will make us free, and JUSTICE is worth fighting for.  Run down and denigrate all of those hardy adventurous souls who founded and built this country but they did pass on a spirit of telling "the man" to kiss off and stay out of my life(maybe 10% of population and maybe another 10% will follow).  I hope you choose to stay.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 21:31 | 4749468 chunga
chunga's picture

It's really hard these days not thinking about it. I've had this bad feeling that we will see things, bad things, that we never dreamt of seeing here. We walked, not ran, pretty far off the beaten path. So, I've got in my head where the breaking point is where I'll no longer run. I have no delusions that I am a ninja warrior by any stretch. I'm not going to discuss what that is but somebody will have to go way out of their way to push me to that point; and why "they" would do that I have no idea. We've talked about this among ourselves and everybody seems ok with it. Everybody get away, this is the hill I'll die on. The reason those that look for answers can't find any; is because there are none as others have pointed out. It blows.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 21:37 | 4749561 First There Is ...
First There Is A Mountain's picture

I've never run from anything in my life and I would rather not but our future in this country is going to depend on more than just a few of us doing the right thing. Like I said, I'm not afraid to lay it all on the line for people who deserve it, but unfortunately not many seem to merit that sacrifice these days. I grew up pretty close to how you describe it. Hunting, fishing and playing sports in high school. It was, in all honesty, fucking incomparable. I experienced things that many won't have the opportunity to appreciate in their lifetimes, unfortunately. Those hard scrabble people in SW CO taught me how to hunt, farm and fix almost anything and I appreciate those lessons and impart them on my own friends and family. What I won't accept however is the idea that we are free to move about the planet interferring in the affairs of sovereign countries where more often than not, innocent bystanders end up in pieces next to some blown out vehicle hit by a missile launched from Maryland or Virginia. And it has been my experience more often than not that many of those same good people in SW CO and small towns all across this land think we are entirely justified in our actions. There has to be modicum of common sense and some of those good folks, as much as I appreciate them, are not worldly wise at times. I won't judge someone on any one basis, but a failure to see the world and get to know those with whom you're sharing this planet is bordering on a crime. 

But yeah, I hear you about who I want to take up with when SHTF. Believe me, it won't be the people of Denver/Boulder. 

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 22:13 | 4749641 sonoftx
sonoftx's picture

I completely agree.  I have tried to impress upon my dad that anyone under the age of 30 might deserve a bullet more than a hand when the shtf due to their belief that they feel like they deserve anything he has if it will make their life better.  Also I have stressed to him not to tell people his own age the preps in place on the place because they think it's "crazy" to prepare.  It's about family first and those with common sense and decency and LOGIC next. Hopefully enough are able to connect to make a difference. Have a good week First there is.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 22:59 | 4749729 First There Is ...
First There Is A Mountain's picture

Same to you partner. Keep on keeping on.....

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 23:03 | 4749738 American Dreams
American Dreams's picture


Man I getting the vibe you are laying down and me and mine have struggled withe the same questions.  Puttin it all on the line, sure no issue here, I'm prepped for that, so is my son but my woman is not and the daughter wants to run and hide in some paradise she thinks still exists, bless her heart.  Hunting, farming, removing my consent for the system, yup, you bet, done and done.  Those are actually the easy pieces, fighting back, physically fighting back means you can no longer do it on your own.  There are very few in this world I trust with my life, yet that is what we need to fight, we need that particular level of trust that comes with relying on your buddy having your back when creepers creep.  That is what I struggle with, cut and run, or stay and fight.... Honestly I think its a game time decision, there is such a thing as tactical retreat, live to fight another day and all that makes sense as long as you think there really will be another day.  So riddle me this, sounds as though you have prepped for the stand, why not prep for the cut and run.  Have both options available, but from my perspective cuttin and runnin on folks that rely on me would be a damn hard thing to do.

Know your enemy


Sun, 05/11/2014 - 23:51 | 4749816 First There Is ...
First There Is A Mountain's picture

Years ago, I took some money I made here in the US and went straight to Argentina and bought myself a little place in Palermo (barrio). For a long time, that was plan B. Not so sure anymore but I'm with you on both staying or cutting and running if and when the right option presents itself. I'm much more inclined to stay and fight if I have to and retreat when it's necessary. I mean, shit, I was born here and still have a lot in common with some of these dipshits no matter how hard I try not to. There are still some truly good people here and I would gladly stand shoulder to shoulder with them when push came to shove - just not sure if they will stand with me. More than that, I just love the geophysical America. I'm hating Colorado right now while it fixes to take out my garden, but come Summer/Fall, there is no greater place on earth. It's my monestary up in those hills that raised me from a boy.

More than that, I like to humor myself with the notion that "off the grid" in the literal sense still exists. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't but I sure can relate where your old lady is concerned. Mine is getting it slowly but surely but pushed to decide, cubicle and benefits would still be her first option. Thing is, I'm the one in the cubicle developing ulcers, know what I mean? I sometimes kick around the idea of selling the house and cars and other bullshit I don't need, cashing up and getting lost somewhere. Invariably, she says what are we going to do to which I don't have a proper answer although I know I've got to do something. I know the way we are living in this country is fundamentally wrong. It's like the first time you stole something as a kid and you goddamn knew good and well it was wrong but you did it anyway. That is how I feel right now. Rat race is a killer. Hamster wheel is robbing me of my life. IRS is taking a big bite out of my ass every time I turn around. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I saw a picture a couple of months ago and it really hit home with me. I'll see if I can find it sometime. Anyway, was a guy sitting at a desk shuffling huge pile of papers and above him was an illustration of the solar system with an arrow pointing to our insignificant earth saying" Are you sure you're here, to do this?"

 Not a day goes by that I don't think about that picture.....

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 01:41 | 4749955 Aussie V
Aussie V's picture

I am moved by your posts (as well as the others that answered you "First There is")

Usually, I come on to get a laugh from the pithyness of the subscribers here and usually attempt some humour myself. Not this time. I sense that maybe I can help? I can hear your heart. I have one too!

I'm 56 an Aussie who has been married to the same awesome woman for 34 years! She is still a spunk!

We've had 4 kids, all grown up now and moved away. I had a high paying job when the kids were aged around 2-10 and I was going thru the same questions as yourself. I am still going thru questions but just other ones now!

In a very LONG story made incredibly short. We are both Muso's who were stuck in 'the grind' of making a living bringing up kids and being responsible but always had that nagging problem you have aired so well. Maybe different questions but coming from the same place! The questions wouldn't go away!

Well, we eventually..... and in our own unique way, made our peace with God! I am not meaning to push anything here but, this is what happened! We did this separately and in our own time and in our own way and in our own house. No church or swanky preachers, just natural, honest, humble and real! (Some would call it born again but to be honest we hadn't even heard that term back then.)

Then, our life changed in all sorts of ways!!!! Crazy stuff. I should write a booooooook!

Anyway, I listened to my gut not my head which someone above suggested. I eventually quit my job and took the family into a mob called Ywam. Some like it, some hate it but, it worked for us!

Anyway, We eventually decided to venture into Vietnam. We were some of the first Europeans into Vietnam since the war. 1994 It was AWESOME! We met some great people who still write to us today. Then we went into the backblocks of the Philippines. Incredible. It made an incredible and indelible stamp on our kids for ever more. Priceless!

I've never believed in pushing my beliefs onto people and never have and never will so, this is not my intention now. It never has been! So, trust me here I'm only telling you what I did in response to those nagging questions. You can never escape them. You have to answer them the best way YOU can.

So, when we returned to Australia we, as a family, traveled the country on and off for the next 8 years in an ex Pioneer Coach  doing concerts around the country, playing music wherever they'd have us. We were the REAL Partridge family! My kids are all grown now and are all awesome people and berserk musicians and, it was because I made decisions that my heart was crying out for all that time. My wife as well of course!

The general consensus back then was to be solid, to buy a house and rent it out and then, buy another etc. and it made sense in some ways but my heart wanted more and was never going to be satisfied with any of that anyway I've since worked out. The crazy thing is. We basically gave everything we had away and we ended up with more than we'd ever of had I reckon. We have a house and we never saved for one we just fell into it at the right time etc etc

Mate, follow your heart and don't let fear stop you. Find out what it is that is nagging you and do 'something' to quench it. Maybe you will start something that isn't here yet?

Maybe you'll think of something that no one has thought up yet? who knows. But, if you don't follow your heart you will never be satisfied and be kicking yourself for the rest of your life. We're all individuals. Individually, we have to answer the same questions thrown at us.

(I didn't mean to offend anyone with my God bits here. If you only knew the actual facts you'd be amazed!)

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 03:39 | 4750055 Lore
Lore's picture

Appreciate the discussion here. Best thing on the interwebs. Some of us do not share the same ability to act. Please don't ever take your blessings for granted.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 04:18 | 4750072 First There Is ...
First There Is A Mountain's picture

Aussie V - I'm not even sure if you'll catch this post depending on what time it hits you, but I'm honestly getting misty here. I appreciate that kind of heartfelt wisdom. You're a bit older than me and have been places, metaphorically speaking, that I have yet to discover. What you write genuinely strikes a familiar chord with me. And yes, fear of the unknown is precisely what prevents me from doing what is in my heart. Truth is, I'm pretty keen to follow in my father's footsteps. He was a telecommunications engineer/consultant in the 60s/70s and was doing quite well here in Denver I reckon, but he feared then, like many do today that the the shit was about to HTF in the tumultous 70s. As it turns out, it didn't but he moved us to southwestern CO all the same and bought a small farm and started doing what was always in his heart. It wasn't easy and it surely wasn't profitable back then, but it was his passion. Ultimately things didn't pan out owing to a confluence of events and we were forced to sell the farm and become city dwellers (town of a whole 1500 - lol) once again. But at that time, I couldn't have dreamed up a better place to grow up. 

A time later, he teamed up with another dreamer and started another truck farm - this time larger yet and somewhat more profitable. They supplied restaurants and grocery stores for miles around with fresh produce. Had a pretty nice run before the economy in general effed things up. Needless to say, it was beginning to be a habit with us. Sometime later, we moved back out of town and settled on about 5 acres. Well, we couldn't resist and gave it another go. This time it wasn't a full time business but more of a hobby. Farmer's markets, selling straight off the farm, etc. Long story short, it's in my blood. I've torn out half my lawn in order to grow veggies. When I'm out there, back aching and throat parched, rototilling, planting or dropping seeds, I am at peace with myeslf and those around me. My family sees a different man than what I am when I walk through the door after a "day at the office". 

Until a week ago, I was the principal at a brokerage. I resigned. I've been a professional trader for quite a few years now and am in line to take another job as chief compliance officer at another wealth management company. Decent money, OK benefits and an OK work/life balance.....and I couldn't be more miserable thinking about walking into that office and undertaking more meaningless tasks. I probably shouldn't complain what with so many others are out of work but I can't help it. It's the most unsatisfying work imaginable. I have a couple of kids and am indeed wrestling with how to best rear them in this god forsaken world. It's tough - one is a type 1 diabetic, and in all honesty, the other could develop it at some time in the future. Who knows, but it does complicate things a bit. Probably not enough to ultimately deter me from striking out into unchartered territory but as a father, you get it. 

So, in the end, I'll probably take this job for as short a period of time as it takes to find a suitable chunk of land and draft up my business plan. I've got a potential partner in a friend from NJ. He has been in the rat race making much more money than I ever did but still ultimately ended up feeling hollow and dissatisfied with his overall quality of life. He's ready for a change and I think we're going to take a run at it. It's nothing glamorous to be sure. We aren't sailing the seven seas in search of adventure but giving up your normal life as you know it is adventure enough at my age. I have no illusions about getting rich. I suspect I'll barely put food on the table and shoes on their feet, but at least I won't lie awake at night asking myself the same nagging question: is this all there is? We're here for 70-80 years if we're lucky (at least with my genetic predisposition) and this is as good as it gets? The thought of never really having accomplished somethign meaningful haunts me most days. I look around me and see people dragging ass to work, eating like shit, fretting over keeping up with the Joneses but in some way they seem satisfied doing precisely that and it makes me question why I can't be similarly satisfied with a 9 to 5, a new car every few years and the occasional vacation. I'm not a complete luddite who yearns for scratching out a living barefoot and cold in a root cellar or something, but I have never, not for my entire life, been able to shake this belief that we're all going about things the wrong way. How can hundreds of millions if not billions be wrong? Not sure, but it hasn't convinced me otherwise yet. 

Either way my friend, I hope you see this post and I'll thank you again for taking the time to respond. It means more than you might otherwise know.


Sun, 05/11/2014 - 17:58 | 4748959 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

The soldiers attacking one of the sentry points in Slavayansk a couple weeks ago were reportedly using AR-15's and other "American" weapons, not AK-47's.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 19:51 | 4749266 nmewn
nmewn's picture

They're cross trained eb, weapons type doesn't mean anything for ID purposes. If they are there, more than likely they're using weapons that ammunition is plentiful for, the 7.62X39 etc.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 19:16 | 4748974 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

Two of the vids in the article have already been taken down "for copyright reasons".
[edit] Sorry, it was the vids in THAT ARTICLE that have been taken down. This article doesn't have so many vids.

The "pro-Russians" can make video, but it may be hard to post it where it can be seen.

The internet is closing down...

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 13:41 | 4748328 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Shirley their motives were as pure as the wind-driven snow. After all, only decent people with the best of intentions sign up for a job where they get to kill people for tons of money.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 20:53 | 4749435 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Stop calling me Shirley! And what is a 'decent people'?

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 03:41 | 4750057 Lore
Lore's picture

Oh please, not Shirley again!  That biatch!

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 13:42 | 4748329 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

My assumption is that they were hung for their murder and war-crimes in Iraq. I could be wrong though.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 13:59 | 4748360 kill switch
kill switch's picture

Then we have the wonderful Craft International at the Boston Marathon...this shit is getting old. Really getting fucking old...FBI blows the place up and pulls in the two patsies...MSM lockjaw..what else..

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 18:21 | 4749022 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

state "propaganda" has been ongoing since before any of us were born. . .

it's inherent in the meme.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 20:15 | 4749336 NickVegas
NickVegas's picture

Mercs operating on American soil, in plain site. What's next, militarized drones flying above our houses?

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 13:28 | 4748299 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Not the name of the game for mercs.
Executed out of hand when/if captured.Hopefully shot.
The other incentive package.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 18:07 | 4748983 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

"Shot when captured" is only number 2 on the list, right after returning home to collect the paycheck.The second-best outcome.

There are a lot more entries in that list of possibilities...

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 13:36 | 4748316 sushi
sushi's picture

A video surfaced a week ago which showed the capture of a mercenary. The captured man was corralled by figures speaking some slavik language. The merc went limp, made no attempt at resistance other than to state "I am a US citizen." That was the end of the video. He was wearing a US pattern helmet. I'm pretty sure I posted a link to the vid on ZH but that was several bottles of scotch ago and I'm trying hard not to sober up.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 15:14 | 4748505 socalbeach
socalbeach's picture

Here you go.

April 9th, 2014

Ukrainians Capture US Mercenary in Kharkov

original video

Voice of Russia article: Crisis in Ukraine: anti-Maidan protesters in Kharkov detain US mercenary


Funded by Ukranian oligarchs apparently.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 15:38 | 4748602 JuliaS
JuliaS's picture

When all those beheadings started in Iraq, it didn't bother me. A lot of people here were horrified, "Whaaaa, beheadings! Beheadings!" What, are you fucking surprised? Just one more form of extreme human behavior. Besides, who cares about some mercenary civilian contractor from Oklahoma who gets his head cut off? Fuck 'em. Hey Jack, you don't want to get your head cut off? Stay the fuck in Oklahoma. They ain't cuttin' off heads in Oklahoma, far as I know. But I do know this: you strap on a gun and go struttin' around some other man's country, you'd better be ready for some action, Jack. People are touchy about that sort of thing.

- George Calin

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 15:41 | 4748608 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Poor stupid bastard.  As if saying he was a US citizen is some golden ticket out of jail.  I would hear AH's in Europe saying "Oh I am an American" like anyone gave a shit.  Demanding shit from the locals with zero respect.   Sickening.  Most people I ran into thought I was a Canadian because I was pretty low key and respectful.

These dumb mercs are like the old Mike Tyson saying.  "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."  This guy's plan was to say he is an American citizen?  Some ***king plan.

Americans should not be there.  These guys should know better but the money is probably good.  If they are fit - they can work in the oil fields.   If you want to carry a gun and hurt or kill people then be prepared when the shoe is on the other foot. Sad.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 16:07 | 4748682 Bingo Hammer
Bingo Hammer's picture

I agree Freddie with your basic sentiment and empathy but you must be confusing him with normal US troops.... that piece of trash sociopath is neither poor nor stupid; he's a well paid, well trained murderer, torturer, defiler and rapist of man, woman, child and the world.

And "they should know better" well sorry, but they DO and like the true sociopaths they are, they will only squeal and develop a conscious when they get caught and then its...."I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry"..., but a sickening pox they are on the face of the planet...yes

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 16:07 | 4748686 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Well, if you are a mercenary this is what you do. How many action films do we watch where the mercenary forces are the good guys and where they are the bad? The only differences are who you fight for and the moral code you or your team personally holds?

I watched the clip. I do not find it perfect English or completely convincing. It does not particularly matter but you can find videos from the Korean war and N. Vietnam where many are coerced into saying anything.

I personally don't think any of us who speak with such certainty know what is going on in Ukraine. All I can tell is that it is confused and there are probably dozens of factions in dozens of places. Who is supporting what sides and for what reasons is probably up for grabs.

I am also not horrified by American CIA or FBI or even military advisers going there. Those are the types of advisers you need right now. You don't need financial advisers or plumbers. My guess is that the CIA visit by Brennan was made semi-public to send a message. That would not be a mistake they would make.

As a libertarian it is a tough call in situations like these. I am for free people and self determination everywhere from the USA to N. Korea. I think Viktor Yanukovych was a Russian tool and sell out, but who replaces him may not be much better. As far as the USA goes, no wars without a declaration of war. Short of that is is more murky. If you were some sort of freedom fighter against a well backed and armed opponent you and I would certainly love to see some help from friendly forces.

I wish the Ukrainians well. I suspect it will be a mess, a bloody mess before it is over. History says they have only about a 10% of avoiding a new autocrat.


Sun, 05/11/2014 - 20:28 | 4749372 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"I watched the clip. I do not find it perfect English or completely convincing."

I watched it too, his accent came off as a New Yawker trying to sound redneck.

It was a nice try

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 19:52 | 4749268 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

That video wasn't very convincing. Not much evidence of the place and time, or other circumstances.

Also, he sounded like he had an eastern European accent. He didn't say "Ah'm a US Citizen!", he said "I am a US Ceetezeen!", more or less.

Unless they clean him up and have him facing the camera in regular clothes, and speaking in plain language, it's hard to say this video isn't fake. Actually they need to combine the two -- the capture, and some hints of where and when, followed by an interview clearly showing his ethnicity. And clear enough that you can see it is the same guy.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 14:05 | 4748394 fleur de lis
fleur de lis's picture

If the East Uks/West Russians collar a few of them and throw them into the slammer until things quiet down, it should be interesting to hear what alibi they have for gratuitous violence and possibly worse.  This Russia/Ukraine conflict has nothing to do with the security of the US and these mercs know it. 

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 14:17 | 4748426 CuttingEdge
CuttingEdge's picture

Throw them in the slammer?

How about sending them home with their balls shoved down their throats? These fuckers deserve whatever is done to them if caught, the more obscene the better.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 17:10 | 4748806 fleur de lis
fleur de lis's picture

Yes but if they got roughed up and sent home they'd be feted as heros, write books about their bravery and adventures, do the talk shows, etc. Better they face their adversaries in a military court and explain why and for whom they butted into a foreign war.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 14:14 | 4748414 BandGap
BandGap's picture

I would bet that Putin personally put out a bounty. Catch a Blackwater merc, win the lottery (payable in those new gold coins they be a printin').

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 18:22 | 4749025 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

I wonder what the reward is for capturing Igor Kolomoisky?

Abduction / kidnapping ... I sense the emergence of a growth industry in the territories formerly known as "Ukraine".

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 20:36 | 4752937 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Yes, and when Putin and the KGB/GRU capture someone...what are the odds that they will miraculously make exactly the confession that Putin wants?


Sun, 05/11/2014 - 19:30 | 4749180 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

This article starts out by admitting that the source cited is unreliable, but has a large readership. Maybe like the National Enquirer ? 

Then it has this paragraph:  "Finally, in this proxy war between west and east, to believe that the US won't throw everything it can at Putin is naive, and as such the involvement of trained US mercenaries in Ukraine is beyond debate."

Really, based on an unreliable source ? This sounds like Gore 'manmade global warming is decided' language.

The evidence that neo cons are involved with Ukraine is solid. The Nuland statements point to that. But, this article doesn't provide solid evidence for what its title claims. (Of course, it may be happening, but this article doesn't provide evidence for that.)

Some ZH writers Really need to pick up their game. Please present facts, not sensationalized headlines that you don't back up.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 02:28 | 4750008 tsuki
tsuki's picture

I tend to believe the report.  Yes, it is a tabloid from Axel Springer AG, but Axel Springer AG is pro-American, pro-EU, pro-Israel, pro TransAtlantic Free Trade Agreement, anti-left, anti-Russia, anti-immigration news organization.  This is not the type of story they usually run with. 

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 23:36 | 4749790 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

Yep, and also Germany wants their gold back.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 06:26 | 4750149 onthesquare
onthesquare's picture

As always should any of your mercs be caught or killed the secretary will disavow any knowledge of their existance.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 13:50 | 4748350 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

"Making predictions is tough.  Especially about the future."

Nonetheless, I'm predicting that Ukraine's "300" can whoop the candy-ass 400 Mercs 9 times out of 10.  Fighting for cash is not the same as fighting for your loved ones and your home.

Fuck U, Neocons!  Fuck u, Global Zionists!  Fuck u Banksters!  The petro-dollar is going down -- like a porn film fluffer!

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 14:09 | 4748398 NemoDeNovo
NemoDeNovo's picture

#FreeFrancisSawyer #FTW

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 16:40 | 4748756 DYS
DYS's picture

Okay, but in the end, each is fighting for their own life.   That's the same motivation for everyone.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 20:47 | 4749422 yochananmichael
yochananmichael's picture

i realize that your a Jew hating psycho, but Shatner is a Zionist.

Sun, 05/11/2014 - 21:13 | 4749493 chemystical
chemystical's picture

Shatner is a Jew.  You have no idea whether or not he is a Zionist.  The 2 are not the same - as much as your ilk would like to conflate the 2 in order to provide cover for the sociopaths.  I also blame the silent Jews who stfu because of the great benefits of being in the greater tribe. 

full disclosure: I'm cheerfully an apostate and wouldn't exercise my right of return if my life depended on it.  My soul is more valuable to me.

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