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"Ukraine's Destiny Is To Go Medieval"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Authored by James H. Kunstler,

My country can cry all it likes about yesterday’s referendum vote in eastern Ukraine, but we set the process in motion by sponsoring the overthrow of an elected Kiev government that was tilting toward Russia and away from NATO overtures. The president elected in 2010, Viktor Yanukovych, might have been a grifter and a scoundrel, but so was his opponent, the billionaire gas oligarch Yulia Tymoshenko. The main lesson that US authorities have consistently failed to learn in more than a decade of central Asian misadventures: when you set events in motion in distant lands, events, not policy planners at the State Department, end up in the driver’s seat.

And so now they’ve had the referendum vote and the result is about 87 percent of the voters in eastern Ukraine would prefer to align politically with Russia rather than the failing Ukraine state governed out of Kiev. It’s easy to understand why. First, there’s the ethnic divide at the Dnieper River: majority Russian-speakers to the east. Second, the Kiev government, as per above, shows all the signs of a failing state — that is, a state that can’t manage any basic responsibilities starting with covering the costs of maintaining infrastructure and institutions. The Kiev government is broke. Of course, so are most other nations these days, but unlike, say, the USA or France, Ukraine doesn’t have an important enough currency or powerful enough central bank to play the kind of accounting games that allow bigger nations to pretend they’re solvent.

Kiev owes $3.5 billion to Russia for past-due gas bills and Moscow has asked Kiev to pre-pay for June deliveries. This is about the same thing that any local gas company in the USA would demand from a deadbeat customer. The International Monetary Fund has offered to advance a loan of $3 billion, of which Kiev claims it could afford to fork over $2.6 billion to Russia (presumably needing the rest to run the country, pay police salaries, et cetera). Ukraine is in a sad and desperate situation for sure, but is Russia just supposed to supply it with free gas indefinitely? As wonderful as life is in the USA, the last time I checked most of us are expected to pay our heating bills. How long, exactly, does the IMF propose to pay Ukraine’s monthly gas bill? In September, the question is liable to get more urgent — but by then the current situation could degenerate into civil war.

The USA and its NATO allies would apparently like to have Ukraine become a client state, but they’re not altogether willing to pay for it. This kind of raises the basic question: if Russia ultimately has to foot the bill for Ukraine, whose client state is it? And who is geographically next door to Ukraine? And whose national histories are intimately mingled?

I’m not persuaded that Russia and its president, Mr. Putin, are thrilled about the dissolution of Ukraine. Conceivably, they would have been satisfied with a politically stable, independent Ukraine and reliable long-term leases on the Black Sea ports. Russia is barely scraping by financially on an oil, gas, and mineral based economy that allows them to import the bulk of their manufactured goods. They don’t need the aggravation of a basket-case neighbor to support, but it has pretty much come to that. At least, it appears that Russia will support the Russian-speaking region east of the Dnieper.

My guess is that the Kiev-centered western Ukraine can’t support itself as a modern state, that is, with the high living standards of a techno-industrial culture. It just doesn’t have the fossil fuel juice. It’s at the mercies of others for that. In recent years, Ukraine has even maintained an independent space program (which is more than one can say of the USA). It will be looked back on with nostalgic amazement. Like other regions of the world, Ukraine’s destiny is to go medieval, to become a truly post-industrial agriculture-based society with a lower population and lower living standards. It is one the world’s leading grain-growing regions, a huge advantage for the kind of future the whole world faces — if it can avoid becoming a stomping ground in the elephant’s graveyard of collapsing industrial anachronisms.

Ukraine can pretend to be a ward of the West for only a little while longer. The juice and the money just isn’t there, though. Probably sooner than later, the IMF will stop paying its gas bills. Within the same time-frame, the IMF may have to turn its attention to the floundering states of western Europe. That floundering will worsen rapidly if those nations can’t get gas from Russia. You can bet that Europe will think twice before tagging along with America on anymore cockamamie sanctions. Meanwhile, the USA is passing up the chance to care for a more appropriate client state: itself. Why on earth should the USA be lending billions of dollars to Ukraine when we don’t have decent train service between New York City and Chicago?

 

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Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:17 | 4752334 A Nanny Moose
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With a pair of pliers, and a blowtorch...

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:35 | 4752376 FilthyHabits
FilthyHabits's picture

As it comes down to being human, we will all be left to who we are and what we can do.

Having a pair of pliers and a blowtorch, among other implements of self defense, will become the only methods to defend oneself against these psychopathic, controlling, money hungry, power rich, immoral fucktards.

Humans once again we will learn to be, only to soon I hope.

 

Arm Yourselves.

 

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:44 | 4752417 The Phu
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"Meanwhile, the USA is passing up the chance to care for a more appropriate client state: itself. Why on earth should the USA be lending billions of dollars to Ukraine when we don’t have decent train service between New York City and Chicago?"

 

If I remember my 9th grade US History lessons on the Civil War correctly, the North/Union targeted the Confederate's rail system.  Simply, War Zones and rail don't mix.  The south side of Chicago sounds like a war zone.  Deductive reasoning and a snarky outlook might explain why Chicago won't be building any rail lines to NYC anytime soon.  /sarc

 

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:58 | 4752457 strannick
strannick's picture

Learn? This is what they do.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 18:31 | 4752544 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Although a lot of battles have been fought there, Kiev hasn’t had a really good siege for about 800 years.. maybe it's about time again.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 21:29 | 4753093 TheReplacement
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The age of sieges is long past with modern mechanized armies.  Enough conventional firepower can be brought to bear to simply level the city fairly quickly.  Look to Grozny.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 23:51 | 4753536 Andre
Andre's picture

Ummm...

  • Stalingrad
  • Leningrad
  • Khe Sanh
  • An Loc

Terrain and logistics are the determinants, unless you go Strangelove.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 06:10 | 4753864 mc225
mc225's picture

kiev had a bit of a 'siege' in 1941; the kiev pocket; 665,000 prisoners of war.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 00:06 | 4753573 Ropingdown
Ropingdown's picture

Your ninth grade history was apparently very incomplete.  Railroads were absolutely vital to Union logistics.  The greatest practical hero of the civil war was Tom Scott, president of the Pennsylvania Railroad.  He took over management of the railroads and freight logistics and essentially provided the maneuverability of troops, ammunition and food.  It was in gratitude for that reality that the Pennsylvania Railroad was granted the first "general purpose" corporate charter in the world, so that it could conduct whatever business it wished.  (Previously a 'corporation' had a single purpose charter, to build a dam, operate department stores, or such.)(There had been one other for a very small Rhode Island company, but it led to nothing.)  Of course both sides wanted to blow up each other's railroads...and food, houses, soldiers, dams, etc.

Standard railroads are incredibly efficient, even if you're towing people around in sleeping cars.  The problem, of course, is that you have to spend many hours on the train.  They sell tickets to some fairly crufty people, and in the U.S. today you can't easily cordon off the poorly behaved.  Airline flights from NYC to Chicago are quick, and you can buy a ticket to sit in an economically segregated section of the rich, the corporate, and those who have to fly every week for work, thus having FF miles with which to by upgrades.

High speed trains? To get that last forty or fifty MPH you double the electricity requirement.  The maintenance is horrendously expensive. I've used them many times in Spain, a few times in France. They're nice just up until you have to pay the true cost per passenger mile, which of course I never have.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:32 | 4752377 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

"My country"

What a fucking tool. That he writes about this shit for a living is a sad reflection of reality.

And as I always like to point out (since he admitted it), he's a two-time Obummer voter.

Coherency obviously isn't his strong suit.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:34 | 4752384 Lore
Lore's picture

English isn't yours.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:35 | 4752390 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

You can go back to sucking his dick now, okay?

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:41 | 4752402 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

On the bright side he's bashing the State Department.

However, Kunstler doesn't seem to understand that the U.S. leadership is intentionally not caring for the homeland.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:48 | 4752427 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

His writing is every bit as relevant as jawboning about who will win a professional wrestling match.

Recognizing the world is a cluster-fuck is one thing. Writing about it will affect our future while failing to connect any dots is another.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:45 | 4752422 bonin006
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Moose - is that a reference to Charley Varrick?

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:22 | 4752348 ebworthen
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What's a train?

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:28 | 4752363 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

The light at the end of the tunnel.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:29 | 4752364 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Yeah, how the hell did he end up talking about train service?

Another guy spending too much time in his own head.  Must be the same disease that's slowly taking over Bill Gross' mind.

If I find out this guy's some shill for "high speed rail" he can go fuck himself.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:37 | 4752395 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

.

If I find out this guy's some shill for "high speed rail" he can go fuck himself.

No, he knows high speed rail is a scam and has called it as much. He laments that passenger train service (a very fuel efficient mode of transportation) in this country has atrophied to sub-Third World status. It's a valid point which most won't realize until it's too late to fix.

BTW, none of the down arrows are from me.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:55 | 4752435 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

They will realize it when there are more free-ride passengers sitting outside on top of the train than there are paying passengers seated inside.

 

P.S. High speed rail just makes the bugs hurt more when they hit you.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 19:15 | 4752677 shovelhead
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Welcome to the Mumbai Express...

Servicing South Bakersfield to...

North Bakersfield.

Enjoy the ride.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 20:13 | 4752868 Rootin' for Putin
Rootin' for Putin's picture

Now the Chinese are buying up all of Detroit maybe theres a monorail link in its future.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 02:28 | 4753754 eurobug
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Tell that to Europe that high speed rail is a scam... Brussels-Paris in one hour, to the skiing areas in the Alps in 3 hours, trains almost always fully booked, cheaper and faster than flight, etc...

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:29 | 4752365 StacksOnStacks
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Well, it's done with a female and two men who are...

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 19:02 | 4752632 ILLILLILLI
ILLILLILLI's picture

I thought that you had to have more cars before you came to the caboose...

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:30 | 4752369 cossack55
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Ask Warren.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:40 | 4752392 Lore
Lore's picture

Ask the Chinese.  They have lots of trains between all their major cities, 200-400+ km/h, with thousands of miles of new track being laid: one of the perks of being solvent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_China

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:54 | 4752449 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

"What's a train?"

That's what 2 dozen guys do to a girl too drunk to know she's being raped.

Kinda like America.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:30 | 4752370 DOGGONE
DOGGONE's picture

Here is an ongoing, huge backstabbing that the USA is doing to its citizens.
"The Public Be Suckered"
http://patrick.net/forum/?p=1230886

... great ... except when it comes to money!

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:32 | 4752372 Jack Sheet
Jack Sheet's picture

"The International Monetary Fund has offered to advance a loan of $3 billion"
The assumption being that the IMF has those funds in the first place, which is doubtful. And if they are printed up in SDRs, how are the vig and the collateral to be apportioned among the countries supplying the constituents of the SDR?

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:42 | 4752410 Lore
Lore's picture

Don't ask impertinent questions.  Just take heart that new debt is available to cover old debt, 'Til Debt Do Us Part.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 19:07 | 4752643 NickVegas
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Debt and death, slave planet baby.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:33 | 4752381 GooseShtepping Moron
GooseShtepping Moron's picture

While his writing occasionally tends towards excessive adverbial clauses and his understanding of religion is regrettably shallow, Kunstler is still one of the most clear-headed writers of our time. This offering is particularly lucid.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:43 | 4752413 Salah
Salah's picture

I agree; Kunstler used to be quite messanic in his diatribes.  But since he got all bunkered down in upstate NY, he seems to be on better meds, and his writing has become much more lucid.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 18:06 | 4752485 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

i really like his writing style too. I just have a hard time taking anyone seriously who, in the 2012 elections, after 4 years of this shit, still voted for obama a second time. I feel like im being petty, but its in my head every time i read something he rights. There were plenty of other options, even the green party if he is a dedicated lefty, or just not voting, but nope, voted for obama again.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 19:24 | 4752692 GooseShtepping Moron
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That bothers me too, as does (as I mentioned earlier) his demonstrated willingness to put all religion in the same camp with evangelical Christian nonsense. It appears to be the result of his upbringing. He was once upon a time a true believing Democrat, and was raised and educated in a milieu surrounded by other true believing Democrats.

Over the course of time he has become one of the rarest of human creatures: one who has managed to shed many of his inborn beliefs and prejudices, even the most comfortable of them, when confronted by a greater truth. I'm willing to cut him some slack under the circumstances. I, too, wish he would come along further, but we all only have one life to make our journey, and old Jimbo's already come a long way.

I think I'll say some prayers on his behalf, as one ought to do for a benefactor.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 05:00 | 4753842 Advoc8tr
Advoc8tr's picture

He has come along further ? because he has "managed to shed many of his inborn beliefs and prejudices"  seems to me it is you that has faultered along the way and fallen short of the mark.

Religion is religion is religion .... they are all thought and behaviour control systems devised by men and based on faith not fact - no exceptions. They are either all false or either has equal claim as the others.  The only way one has ever gained dominance over the others is by violence and force because there is no self evident proof of any of them.

I'm sure he'll cut you some slack for almost reaching the greater truth and is hoping (you say praying) that you'll come along further eventually.

I'll give it (religion) this ... it sticks like shit to a blanket.

 

 

 

Wed, 05/14/2014 - 00:21 | 4757832 Lore
Lore's picture

I'm inclined to agree. By circumstance or design, organized religions are ongoing experiments in social control. Different flavours work better in different cultures, under different conditions and with different castes and personality types. The one I fear most is the new secular one: Agenda 21.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 19:05 | 4752641 Stupid Donkey
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He's just another fool pontificating on the propaganda about a country he has never been to.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:33 | 4752382 Chief Wonder Bread
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All the big historical ideas and movements have died. The world is beginning to look more and more medieval with each passing year.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:36 | 4752391 Gunter
Gunter's picture

James, seeing things here from Germany .. agree .. nothing more to add. I will translate your posting, if you don't mind.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:39 | 4752399 TheFourthStooge-ing
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Ausgezeichnet.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:41 | 4752407 Jack Sheet
Jack Sheet's picture

Are you going to offer it to the FAZ ? lulz

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:40 | 4752404 ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

2nd Amendment, bitchez.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 18:09 | 4752419 Ignatius
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Stuck between two rival power centers and sitting on rich soil, disarming (exception: each man a good rifle, like the Swiss) and going modified Amish would be my recommendation.  First they need to really think about their cultural identity and root out the corruption and excessive bureaucracy which plaques most lands.  They could profit mightily from their circumstance (fair maiden with two suitors) if they understood and played it properly.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 18:44 | 4752580 jaxville
jaxville's picture

In other words...They need to become universally anti Semitic.

 

After all... what decent person isn't anti semitic all ready?

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 19:29 | 4752721 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Your conclusion is all your own.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:48 | 4752425 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Wait, no digs about box stores and tattoos?  Are you sure this is REALLY from Kunstler?

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:49 | 4752434 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

I share Kunstler's concern about box stores and tatoos.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 18:09 | 4752490 Al Huxley
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I always get the sense that, intellectually he finds them to be an indicator of America's naive belief in the sustainability of the cheap energy culture, and the return to uneducated tribalism, but really, at an emotional level, he just thinks they're ugly.  I get the feeling that he's pining for the return to a mythical Rockwellian America that never really existed.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 18:11 | 4752497 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Like educated tribalism is any better?

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 18:24 | 4752532 machineh
machineh's picture

Oy ... that sounds kinda rayciss. /sarc

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 18:13 | 4752505 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

I think you've nailed it, Al.

A strange mix of intelligence and naivete'.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 18:10 | 4752494 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Getting tats at WalMart probably isn't the best choice.

Jus' sayin'...

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:53 | 4752426 socalbeach
socalbeach's picture

Forget the June 2nd pre-payment deadline for Ukranian gas.  How about tomorrow?

.

PM instructs Gazprom to supply gas to Ukraine on prepaid basis from May 13

'GORKI, May 12. /ITAR-TASS/. Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev instructed Gazprom to start supplying gas to Ukraine on a prepaid basis from May 13.

“Gazprom has a right to do what has been repeatedly discussed, namely to switch over to advance payments for Ukrainian consumers and Ukraine under the contract,” Medvedev said on Monday, May 12. “I think it’s high time we stopped dandling about. Notify them and move on to advance payments starting tomorrow,” he said at a meeting with Gazprom CEO Alexei Miller and Energy Minister Alexander Novak...

Medvedev said advance payments for Russian gas would not mean an end to supplies. “The transition to advance payments means only one thing: we will supply as much as they pay for. If they pay one euro, we will supply one euro’s worth [of gas]; if they pay a billion, we will supply a billion’s worth [of gas],” he said...'

 

Maybe it has something to do with this: Russia: Historic 30-yr gas deal with China set to be signed next week

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 18:26 | 4752535 machineh
machineh's picture

I will gladly pay you ten million hryvnias next Tuesday, for a million cubic meters today.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 19:45 | 4752752 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

This is only the legal setup from the top down.  Tomorrow (really now in Ukr) Ukraine will officially be on a prepaid basis.  Before it was only words and threats.  May17 Gazprom will then legally send the written prepay bill to Ukraine.  It takes a few days (for each step) for anything large like this to happen.  Now it is official from the top in writing and law...no more threats...real actions.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 20:12 | 4752849 socalbeach
socalbeach's picture

You're right. Reading the the article more carefully, gas would be shutoff in early June as previously reported, but the pre-pay calculation starts May 14.

.

'Miller said Ukraine had to pay for Russian gas supplies before June 2.

“If Ukraine does not pay for the June supplies, Gazprom will notify Ukraine by 10 a.m. June 3 how much gas would be supplied to Ukraine in accordance with the advance payment made,” he said.'

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:52 | 4752442 Uncle Remus
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Trebuchet+mercs+sub-orbital flight+Kazakhstan landing*=medieval

 

*recall Russians land space craft in Kazakhstan, not the ocean...

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 17:53 | 4752447 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Yeah, this was a weak Kunstler piece.

But OTOH, he did understand that gas is the only thing going on and didn't start waving his hands in the air about historical relationship bullshit.

Ukraine burns damn little oil.  About 380K bpd.

Ukraine pop 44 million.  Japan is 126 million. About a X3.

Japan burns almost 5 million bpd.  That's rather more than X3.

Kunstler makes one good point.  These guys can grow food and they ain't burning oil doing it.  They have a bright future, unlike everyone else.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 18:03 | 4752476 Mercedes
Mercedes's picture

Their best grain growing area surrounds Odessa, also a key port, so retention of Odessa is their most important consideration.  The new president, assuming the vote proceeds, is from the Odessa area.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 19:09 | 4752654 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

They plow and reap with horses?

A marvel of 18th century efficiency.

Starvation in 3...2...1...

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 18:02 | 4752472 Fix-ItSilly
Fix-ItSilly's picture

...because in the 21st century, there is no need for decent train service between NY and Chicago. 

As for the Ukraine's manufacturing capability, without a declining Hryvinia, its raison d'etre is suspect in today's globalized world.    Without high precision and/or high productivity along with cheap sources of power, Russia and Europe will shop elsewhere.

Without the Russo-Ukrainian oligarch ripoff of the Ukrainian people, the viable gem in the Ukraine may very well be grain - but can be foundational for a viable future country caught between 2 wolf clans?

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 18:23 | 4752531 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

"caught between 2 wolf clans?"

I like that. It's apropos of the domestic political situation, too.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 18:29 | 4752539 machineh
machineh's picture

More like caught between hyenas and jackals.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 01:05 | 4752733 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

Stuck in the middle with you.  Clowns to the left, Jokers to the right.

Seriously though...the G20 are grabbing land masses all over the globe for resources and grainbaskets for future food.

Places like Ukraine and Belarus have their Sugar Daddy and that will be it.

So G20 Sugar Daddys are gathering their post-reset serfs and kingdoms.

There are only 3 nuclear Navy's, and only so many post-collapse super-powers...so it might winnow down to G10 eventually worldwide...and the EU might split a bit.

Each in G10 will have a bartertown.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 18:03 | 4752477 dot_bust
dot_bust's picture

Ukraine, the Game of Thrones edition.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 18:13 | 4752507 reTARD
reTARD's picture

Bring on the Dark Ages, bitchez! Dark as in no governments being bad as the elites who have written history want us to believe.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 18:33 | 4752548 Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

"Lending"? LOL. It's like the billions in miltary gear we "sell" Israel every year.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 18:51 | 4752597 JamesBond
JamesBond's picture

"Start your family with a Russian Lady"

 

 

  jb

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 19:00 | 4752622 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

We're going to need a bigger moat.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 19:02 | 4752629 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Train Service ??

Can anyone name a passenger train in the US that can pay its own way without a subsidy, besides Disneyland?

They're a giant tax suck on wheels.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 19:11 | 4752658 NickVegas
NickVegas's picture

Who are the competitors, and what are their subsidies? I will leave it to the reader to complete the exercise.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 19:17 | 4752684 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

Train service between New York and Chicago?
http://www.travelmath.com/drive-distance/from/New+York,+NY/to/Chicago,+IL
Who in their right mind would use the train?

If you really want to make a point about travel infrastructure between Chicago and New York, why not talk about the Erie Canal and how it has fallen on hard times. I'm sure somebody out there still cares.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 19:28 | 4752718 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

"Meanwhile, the USA is passing up the chance to care for a more appropriate client state: itself. Why on earth should the USA be lending billions of dollars to Ukraine when we don’t have decent train service between New York City and Chicago?"

lmao since when do they give a fuck about us?  Only thing they're worried about is doing the minimum required to maintain control of course that has been extended to 10k drones and NDAA etc.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 19:46 | 4752775 NoDecaf
NoDecaf's picture

Why do the Ukrainian police need to get paid? Aren't they all about "glory for Ukraine" and all that jazz?

When pay day rolls around just line them up and shout "Ukraina Slava!" then give them a pat on the back and some kind of trinket, like a fridge magnet or something...

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 20:39 | 4752948 Beard of Zeus
Beard of Zeus's picture

That's it, I'm building my own trebuchet.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 21:01 | 4753011 TeraByte
TeraByte's picture

"Why on earth should the USA be lending billions of dollars to Ukraine when we don’t have decent train service between New York City and Chicago?"
Re:
Printing dollars is almost for free and colletaral for this nothing can be any more valuable tangible asset, eg gold and diamonds in case with China´s loan to Zimbabwe. In the both cases nobody believes in repayment, so the worthless $ turns into real liquid asset. Corruption Consultancy Services could also become one plausible acceptable collateral from Ukraine. It may even beat the GS advisory service in excellence.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 21:05 | 4753014 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

 Once again, the facts point to more suffering and animosities because of US expansionist meddling.

Most Ukraine citizens, most EU members and Russia would have been happy with the deal brokered which  called for a Ukraine-wide referendum, federalization, and Yanukovch to step down.

But for Obama and his "f***-the-EU allies like Nuland and McCain, that wasn't good enough. So the US backed Ukrainian neo-Fascists in a localized coup which was opposed by half Ukraine.

Thus the promise of a peaceful resolution which could have worked was ditched because of US hegemonistic ambitions.

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 22:11 | 4753209 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

"Ukraine's destiny is to go Medieval"?

F...k, the whole West is going medieval!

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 22:15 | 4753221 Schacht Mat
Schacht Mat's picture

Ukraine was (and still is) a tinderbox.  We threw a bunch of matches into it, watched the resulting conflagration take on a life of its own and then conveniently blamed the Russians for fanning the flames (not noticing, of course, our own air jets blowing the flames in the opposite direction).  Earth to Neocons - once this pyre was lit, there was no stopping it.  This is why the Russians have avoided playing with matches around this sucker since the breakup of the Soviet Union; of course, now that we lit the thing, they will show up to roast a little sausage for themselves as well.  The fact is that Putin did not have to do anything to get the referendum results that he wanted - truth be told, it would have been counterproductive for him to try, as there was no up side (he had the vote in the bag) and if he was caught trying to rig the vote then it would have given the Kiev junta internationally accepted justification to declare the vote invalid.

When it comes to the Ukraine, the big Smokey bear that is Russia should have been heeded - don't play with matches...

Mon, 05/12/2014 - 22:47 | 4753328 Youri Carma
Youri Carma's picture

Like predicted the East-Ukranian states will join Crimea and Russia while the fascist West-Ukraine will get more and more isolated. The only answer the US and it's NATO puppet had until now was brute force of which I expect more. The only reason the US is ocupied with the West Ukrainian fascists is to stoke unrest in the everlasting Brzezinski 'divide and conquer' game poking the Russian bear.

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