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American Dependency (And The 3rd Day Of The Month Effect)

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Rory of The Daily Coin via Jim Quinn's Burning Platform blog,

Having noted America's surging government dependence before, the impact of almost 50 million people on food stamps is hard to imagine if you are not in retail food.

The spike in business beginning on the 3rd of each month is truly astounding. By the 10th of the month the business begins to normalize and by the 22nd the ship is sinking. When there is a holiday in the month we experience a slightly different flow of business. Depending on the nature of the holiday and when it hits the calendar the flow of business changes accordingly. There is always the spike from the 3rd through 7th as the pantry has run dry. But when the holiday rolls around people have saved their position in the soup line in order to “celebrate” the event appropriately. Remember, not only are the working people of this country putting food on the table, we are also funding items like, lottery tickets, cigarettes, alcohol and everything else that is non-food as a lot people are issued a “cash card” in addition to the ticket for the soup line (EBT card).

...

When you combine the number of people that receive their daily bread from taxpayer funds with the number of people who work for government I dare say it will be impossible to have an election that ever removes the corrupt from office. Who is going to vote against their pay-check or the food on their table?

Sadly, it appears, the soup line is here to stay.

 

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Tue, 05/13/2014 - 16:56 | 4756409 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

For three years we have gently urged you towards Depends....  And now you expect us to worry about your burning platform?

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:02 | 4756436 knukles
knukles's picture

American Dependence. 
Gives New Meaning to "international"  Space Station, now that the Rooskies say we can't ride their rockets.
And talking about rockets, they're not gonna sell us any more rocket motors used to lift USMil payloads.
And several months ago I got some reddies when I predicted this.
Vlad the Bad has this Wired, boys and girls.
If we (the West) agitates him much more, he's gonna double or triple the price of natgas and demand payment in Rubles or Gold, only.

Oh to be in Bilderberg now that Russia's here.

 

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:19 | 4756490 Looney
Looney's picture

Moochers… We have become a country of phucking moochers. Exceptional, aren’t we?

Looney

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:21 | 4756497 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

I am more concerned with the ones that stole the loot to give to the "moochers," and also have drones and maintain "kill-lists."

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:23 | 4756502 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Da Free Shit Army salutes you, sir !

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 21:15 | 4757350 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

It is really more about knowing who thy enemy is--the "moochers" or the thieves and murders in DC and the local town hall.

Or put another way: Eliminate the "moochers" and the thieves will make more. Eliminate the thieves and they AND the "moochers" go away.

 

“My guillotine knows the difference”

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:43 | 4756569 Mad_max
Mad_max's picture

We've had this shit in the UK for decades. But then, we have not had to fund a proper military.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 19:16 | 4756940 DerdyBulls
DerdyBulls's picture

A "proper" military. Now there's a conversation. How bout one that isn't used to expand state department power and Davos asset holdings.

Wed, 05/14/2014 - 07:51 | 4758225 Singelguy
Singelguy's picture

I think it is actually worse in the UK. I saw a documentary on BBC last week, titled, Don't touch my benefits. I was shocked to see that people were receiving up to £800 PER WEEK in benefits. The interesting thing was only one of the many people profiled was a native born Brit. The rest were all immigrants from very poor countries and yet they were all complaining they were not getting enough.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:42 | 4756565 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

All Vlad needs do is hack into the EBT system on the 2nd of the month,paralyze it, and let the FSA do the rest.
Not a drop of Russian blood spilt.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:58 | 4756634 MrPalladium
MrPalladium's picture

Most readers think this is a joke, but it is deadly serious. Why start a nuclear war when Russia has the cpacity to hack our computers and shut down EBT, Medicaid-Medicare, SSI, SSDI, etc.? They have the best engineers in the World and they know perfectly well that our welfare system coupled with multiculturalism is our Achilles heel.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 18:43 | 4756814 SDShack
SDShack's picture

Exactly right... take away EBT, and riots and looting begins all over America in seconds.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 19:10 | 4756920 zaphod
zaphod's picture

Forget EBT cards. 

Putin only has to disrupt the supply chain to take down both the middle class and FSA. Every population center in the US only has about 3 days worth of food due to our just in time delivery system.

With that you don't need to take out a supply chain, just disrupt it for a bit. 

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 20:15 | 4757155 Dead Man Walking
Dead Man Walking's picture

EBT take down would be my last move, a grand finale, only after disrupting the supply chain, raising oil prices and droping the petro-dollar.  It would be very effective I'm afraid.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 20:36 | 4757226 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

You guys fellating of Putin is both laughable and pathetic.  This isn't "Red Dawn" you cannot make a first strike move against a superpower without seriously endangering your own countries well being.  The real consequences of a hot war between the USA and Russia will hopefully keep it confined to your Call of Duty fantasies.

And on a personal note, all you fucksticks who speak so cavalierly of cuting off peoples food and laughing at the prospect of widespread suffering better hope you're never in a position to experience it first hand.  Karma's a bitch and hungry people can be quite ruthless.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 20:43 | 4757242 Slave
Slave's picture

Willing to bet the people saying this here have those evil assault weapons at the ready to defend their emergency food and water supply.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 21:04 | 4757323 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

Watch an episode of the Walking Dead.  Everybody runs out of ammo eventually, and I've got a few boxes myself...

The fact is all you emotionally maladjusted douches are rooting for an apocalypse that would harm so many people who have nothing to do with making this system what it is.  Get some fucking therapy or something but quit the blood lust for the lower class folks that are the VICTIMS of .gov, not the beneficiaries.  Jesus Fucking Christ you tools are pathetic.

Wed, 05/14/2014 - 07:25 | 4758188 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

I am reading comments on both sides of the issue and you are both right. How is this possible?

Mr. Nihilist Zero your handle is counter to your expressed beliefs but they are not misguided. It appears that all those who are praying for system total failure have had so much of this diregard in your face trashing of liberties and theft that believe that this is the only salvation.

The ignorant, the passive, the sick and the gadget distracted will be sacrificed.

IMHO all of us have a valid point one way or another. Destroy it in order to rebuilt it.

Wed, 05/14/2014 - 10:12 | 4758752 Weisshaupt
Weisshaupt's picture

You are only a victim till you become a willing participant.

You see, the govt was going to pass regulations on my corporation is I didn't pay them a bribe, and start to play ball. So I played ball, and bought a few favors for myself while I was at it. But I am the victim of govt, see?

Seriously, if the moochers are blameless, so are the Crony Corporations.

The people here aren't "rooting" for this apocalypse - they are rooting for justice to be done upon the thieves who brought this calamity upon us. And such justice will necessarily cause great suffering to those who deserve it and to those who do not- but no one can help that. SO we hope that the suffering falls first and foremost on those who are guilty of causing it. That is your Karmic Forces in action. You hurt others, you shouldn't be the least surprised when they are unwilling to help you when you are hurt.

Wed, 05/14/2014 - 10:38 | 4758859 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

Seriously, if the moochers are blameless, so are the Crony Corporations.

Bullshit.  One group wields power while the other does not.  And if someone steals from you (inflation, imprting cheap labor through immigration and trade) stealing some back does not make you a moocher.  It makes you smart.

The people here aren't "rooting" for this apocalypse - they are rooting for justice to be done upon the thieves who brought this calamity upon us.

Total.  Fucking.  Bullshit.  Ther is a large contingent here who spits vitriol everytime it's mentuioned that a minimum wage worker might like a lifestyle other than that of a peasant.  That maybe he'd like the living wage his predecessors earned before inflation went total retard.  These sadistic holier than thou libertards can die in a fire. 

Wed, 05/14/2014 - 15:36 | 4760202 Weisshaupt
Weisshaupt's picture

They are "stealing some back"? They are stealing my tax dollars and the future  earnings of my children. Inflation is stealing it right out of my bank account.  They aren't stealing it from politicans who took those opportunities from them - they are joining the illegal enterprise  run by the politicans.. And since you admit it is STEALING, yes they are culpable for that immoral act.

If the minimum wage earner wants a better lifestyle he can start providing services are valued by his fellow man as being worth more than minimum wage. ( which is how the people who earn higher  wages do it - many of whom started earning minimum wage)   It is not my fault if he can't provide that sort of value, so I deserve to be stolen from at gun point why?  No the inflation isn't helping these people, just as it isn't helping anyone - but at least 2/3 of the govenment expenditure in a given year is on entitlement programs ( to include both SS and Medicare/ciad)  so 2/3 of the inflation is being driven by people on the dole in some way  ( and don't tell me that Social Security is your money -- your money was stolen by the criminals and spend just as assuredly as if you had invested with Bernie Maddoff - the monmey you get now is confiscated from others at gun point just as much as the EBT money is)  

Its called the Cloward-Piven strategy. Its meant to deleiberately destroy the  "living wage" and entice  people onto govt programs via the moral hazard they represent. . Because beggars are easier to please, and will reliably vote to keep food on their table. even if the food only gets there by robbing someone else.   If you willingly particpate in a crime, you are a criminal. It doesn't matter if you buy a politican to particpate and enable your criminal enterprise, or if the politican buys you to enable its his criminal quest for power.

People are responsible for what they do and the choices they make. Only the politcal left denies it, and they only deny it so they can justify to themselves their use of violence against others to get what they want.

 

Wed, 05/14/2014 - 11:01 | 4758990 Slave
Slave's picture

Run out of ammo? I'd wear out all of my barrels first...

Wed, 05/14/2014 - 16:20 | 4760368 Monty Burns
Monty Burns's picture

There's truth in what you say but it's way too simplistic to call the FSA 'victims'.  Some are, especially the former middle class who've fallen on hard times due to jobs being exported. But all too many of the FSA are just that: Spongers who never did an honest days work in their lives.

Wed, 05/14/2014 - 10:06 | 4758715 Weisshaupt
Weisshaupt's picture

Thanks to Smart Diplomacy (TM) the US is no longer a superpower. Didn't you get the memo?

And I fully expect people who ruthlessly vote for a Govt mafia to let them live off of others at gun point, will simply take up the guns themselves if that mafia network becomes unavailable. Misery loves company and Poverty must be spread equally after all. Do I want to experience such a thing? If course not. Its it going to come regardless of my feelings about it? Yes. Yes it is. Because MATH.

Are you suggesting that because I now wish to see harm come to this mob of leeching cretins that steal from me today that my Karma is affected and I will then somehow deserve to be attacked and stolen from when they are hungry in the future? Perhaps starving in the street is their karmic payback for using violence to entitle themselves to the labor of others. Or do you think that they are somehow immune from Karma because they are too stupid and lazy to pay their own way in life?

I intend to not let them know I have food. I intend to shoot trespassers on sight. And yes, I may end up dead, but that isn't exactly plan A, and at least my plan A isn't living off of the production of others at gun point.

Wed, 05/14/2014 - 10:42 | 4758897 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

While you were amassing you little fortune of whatever size it may be you benefited quite directly from .gov protecting your property at far less than what you'd pay in a private system.  In their absence you so-called moochers couldn't be exploited by the rentier class and wouldn't need any .gov assistance.  So you're both at the gun barrel.  Your getting a much better deal however...

Wed, 05/14/2014 - 15:43 | 4760237 Weisshaupt
Weisshaupt's picture

The main purpose of the government IS to safeguard the rights of individuals. Including the right to their own property, acquired by their own efforts. A government that does otherwise is using its coercive power to illegitimately violate the rights of those its supposed to protect. And no for the amount I pay in taxes, only 30% of that tax actually goes to any legitimate govt service, so even if a private firm charged 60% on top as profit it would cost the same as what I pay now - oh, and I would actually be protected in my property rights instead of threatened with Audits by proponents of the ideology that sees people as property of the state.

The moochers are still taking what is not theirs using guns. I am not taking anything from them. Yes, the politicians they are voting for are, but I can't help that or stop it, and if they vote for it, any gun pointed at them is SOMETHING THEY ASKED FOR.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 21:29 | 4757384 Mad Muppet
Mad Muppet's picture

MrPalladium

Most readers think this is a joke, but it is deadly serious. Why start a nuclear war when Russia has the cpacity to hack our computers and shut down EBT, Medicaid-Medicare, SSI, SSDI, etc.?

 

Oh my, I'm having a Cognitive Dissonance moment. Does the fact that I would LOVE to see this happen make me a Godless Commie?

Wed, 05/14/2014 - 10:43 | 4758908 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

No.  It just makes you an unempathic cunt.  Which is your perogitive, but don't delude yourself into thinking you're anything more than that...

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:03 | 4756438 negative rates
negative rates's picture

I love reverting back to childhood dreams.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 18:26 | 4756743 Pickleton
Pickleton's picture

The FSA should not be allowed to vote for a number of years after they extract themselves from the FSA.  Any attempts to vote should put the moocher's neck in a rope.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 19:06 | 4756902 DerdyBulls
DerdyBulls's picture

Not that voting matters at the federal level, but I read a recommendation that to qualify to vote you had to pay at least $1 in federal tax. Seems okay to me.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 16:56 | 4756412 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

5lb Blocks of Cheese, Bags of Groceries...Social Security has run out for you and me....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIlIL5pPFmY

sounds as good as it did the first "recession"....

Green shootz!

 

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:12 | 4756463 flyingcaveman
flyingcaveman's picture

The circle jerks were way ahead of their time.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 16:56 | 4756413 pods
pods's picture

That is exactly how the government wants it. Enough dependent on them for their very survival ensures their job is safe.

If people ever realized just how much the government takes in order to dole out scraps it would blow your mind.

Not just taxes, but skimming the depreciating currency and stealing productivity increases with inflation as well.
EBT is just the fat kid to hit with the dodgeball.

pods 

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:07 | 4756447 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Yup, all by design.

Buys a lot of votes, and complacency.

But what are people to do with such a crappy job market?  Starve?

No, see, that would lead to riots and civil unrest.  Bread and Circuses in the New Rome.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:24 | 4756509 SDShack
SDShack's picture

Bread & Circuses are a great distraction, but they didn't solve the fundamental problem of total corruption plaguing Rome, anymore then the EBT will solve today's problem. All TPTB are doing is papering over the problem, while making the problem bigger every day. TPTB have created and are feeding the beast that will eventually grow to consume so much that it must turn on them. That's when TPTB will unleash the security state to keep the beast in line while they try to starve it back into submission. The real Bread & Circuses have yet to begin... Plan accordingly to minimize the fallout of the struggle between the elites and masses that is going to get infinitely worse.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:50 | 4756598 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I think you mean the struggle between the masses and the masses. The idea that they'll grow smart enough to go after the real perps is absurd.

Divide and Conquer 101.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:59 | 4756642 SDShack
SDShack's picture

I think King Louis, Marie Antoinette, and Robespierre would disagree...

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 18:01 | 4756648 samsara
samsara's picture

You are right. That's how it will go.

And good advice. Plan Accordingly. For You and Yours.

But, Trying to convince the average person to prepare is like trying to convince someone in 1938 that they should move out of the city of Dresden (unless they were comfortable with 3000 degrees. )

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:36 | 4756538 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

"These Negros are getting pretty uppity these days and that's a problem for us since they've got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness.  Now we've got to do something about this, we've got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference."

"I'll have these n****** voting Democratic for the next 200 years."

-LBJ

Shortly thereafter, politicians realized that it works for all skin colors.  And corporations, since they're also people.  Oh, and both political parties.

Sorry for the rough post, but it's what the man said, and it laid the groundwork for everything that's come after.  I've seen nothing on the horizon that even HINTS we're ready to rethink this situation.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 19:06 | 4756898 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

LBJ worked for the one party that has the legal, moral, and the peoples agreement, to be a fucking a racist. Now if somone from the other party said it, he or she should be killed.

I just love how racism works in this country.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:11 | 4756458 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

The future belongs to the Walmartians.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:31 | 4756532 SDShack
SDShack's picture

 "You're so concerned with squabbling for the scraps from Longshanks' table that you've missed your God-given right to something better. There's a difference between us: You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide these people with freedom." (William Wallace - Braveheart)

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 16:57 | 4756415 BlueCheeseBandit
BlueCheeseBandit's picture

"Who is going to vote against their pay-check or the food on their table?"

Our foreign creditors.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:00 | 4756427 NaiLib
NaiLib's picture

"foreign creditors"? I guess you are talking about FED. Forigners are slowly but surely leaving the USD

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:18 | 4756488 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Well then, lucky for everybody that the FED is such a grand charitable institution.  I'm sure they're eager to look after the ever-expanding have-not class.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 16:57 | 4756416 Yellowhoard
Yellowhoard's picture

“I’ll have those niggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years.” —Lyndon B. Johnson to two governors on Air Force One

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 16:59 | 4756422 Osmium
Osmium's picture

Good thing he didn't own a basketball team.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:02 | 4756435 Billy Sol Estes
Billy Sol Estes's picture

LBJ was a very savy businessman.

-Mr. Estes.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:05 | 4756443 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

better to be his nigger than his basset hound.

heard some unsettling tales about those poor bastards.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 16:59 | 4756423 CelticCanuck
CelticCanuck's picture

Had a bread route in New York City for about 15 years and it was exactly as described in article. Feast until the 15th of the month and famine for the rest of the month. We we're all all on food stamps despite not receiving any government monies.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:48 | 4756557 Nevsky
Nevsky's picture

Similar story in Pittsburgh.

 

A Russian owned gas station [employing mostly new legal immigrants] in a very eh... broken neighbourhood, was making over a $100k a month. Most of it coming in right after the EBT distributions. Hungry local kids roamed the streets the rest of the month.

 

The shelves of junk food were literally swept clean. Grocery store, with healthier foods and much better prices was just a little bit further off... Few locals seemed to have bothered to go there.

 

Ironically the children of the new immigrants [who working at the gas station were earning a fraction of the EBT amounts issued to locals] did not starve.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 19:09 | 4756914 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

Remember" Bone Thugs in Harmony"? Its The First of the Month. They were singing about getting welfare checks. Damn fine young men wonder how much they are getting now?

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:01 | 4756432 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

Don't feed them after midnight!

Don't get in their way at 11:55pm on the 2nd!

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:01 | 4756434 wmbz
wmbz's picture

"It's" not just here to stay it willl continue to grow. Big Gubmint just loves having more and more dependents. The dependents just love being "taken" care of. The free shit army is on the march and as they say and are told...They deserve it! 

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:09 | 4756452 Thermopylae
Thermopylae's picture

 Is it just me, or  does anyone else wonder what happened to the updated numbers of americans on EBT went.

When was the last update - Sept '13?       At 47.6 mill?

Is this another stat that the gov has decided too complicated for the unwashed to digest?

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:40 | 4756562 Thermopylae
Thermopylae's picture

Looks like im going to answer my own question.

Check out the link:

http://www.fns.usda.gov/sites/default/files/pd/34SNAPmonthly.pdf

46.1 mill, as of Feb '14??

Sooooooooo, the total number of people enrolled has reduced month after month for the last 6 months but not a peep about it from the imperial palace.  The same place that calls for national airtime everytime the anoited one has a solid stool movement?

I call BULLSHIT!!

How much you wanna bet these numbers get "messaged" right up to the midterms, just like the unemployment numbers were before.

Big disclaimer on the bottom 

FY 2014 data are preliminary; all data are subject to revision.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 19:08 | 4756910 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

a significant chunk of these are residents not Americans.

there aren't 47 million Americans on food stamps.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:14 | 4756459 Spungo
Spungo's picture

lol food stamps. They don't have those up in Canada yet they seem to be doing ok up there.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:54 | 4756615 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

? They get a social welfare cheque to buy food.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:13 | 4756468 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

say, what was the name of the nigger with the big fake titties?

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:15 | 4756473 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

'Here to stay' sounds so permanent and institutionalized.  What happens to the soup line if the foreigners and the FED stop giving the government free money?

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:26 | 4756515 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

That's why lead is an essential PM.
Talking to a local shop owner today and he showed me his theft insurance. 7.62 X 39 in multiple platforms.
He is expecting SHTF this year,makes two of us.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:46 | 4756579 Overfed
Overfed's picture

If the shit doesn't hit the fan in 2014, then fuck it, I'm takin' the blue pill and going back into the matrix to enjoy my steak.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 18:34 | 4756784 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

No going back, once you go red.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 18:18 | 4756717 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

7.62X39 aint enough .... 7.62 X 63 AP and HPBT ... when you care to send the very best to your enemies.  

Why?  How many people survive a torso hit with 30-06?  Not many.

 

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 19:19 | 4756956 Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

All that matters is that they bleed out. 7,62x39 (or 5.56x45) is good enough.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:19 | 4756493 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I'd like to write a piece about our social system which was aired today during our elections....

I knew it was bad but this....

and it's just everywhere!
fairnesssssssssss...... damned....
and you're a greedy bastard if you're against it he!

Today a older person who was retired told me:
te older you get the less you care...

so I told him: is it bad for me to worry about my pension in 30 years from now? Don't you think I get pissed when older people tell me: sure, you'll get nothing! better save up!

If you would see my tax form.... you'd cry your eyes out...

and than that video on top... free tits... weed... our society is lost. the only way we'll survive is when they whole whorehouse implodes and we start all over.

AND THE WORST IS THAT IT'S STILL GETTING WORSE!!!!
MORE FREE SHIT TOMORROW!!!

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 21:03 | 4757313 Dead Man Walking
Dead Man Walking's picture

Just wait-best is yet to come....When the FSA figures out that their "earned income tax credit"-their cash "refund"of 4k for not paying any taxes will be applied to their "free" Obama care and they will get nothing- then they will get angry and take to the streets demanding more.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:21 | 4756496 Nevsky
Nevsky's picture

Was visiting a top (if not number #1) International Business School in US.

 

The students in charge of the orientation, with staff present, opined that prospective students should not hesitate to get on food stampts, while in school, as they [the current students] were doing.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:27 | 4756514 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Food stamps are a huge enabler of drugs.  Learned this first hand when I was serving at one of the local homeless shelters.  Dude explained that certain of the local five and dime convenience stores would ring up a pack of gum for a hundred dollars, pocket 20% and hand the patron eighty bucks (to go hunt down some Charlie Sheen-brand candy, of course).  The guy I was talking with was a "runner" who arranged rides to the complicit store-owners for up-front payment.

Let's just say that reality depends on one's point of view...

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:35 | 4756545 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

The food stamp program also known as SNAP should be reformed. The food purchased with food stamps should be limited to "only" approved basic and healthy foods like milk, eggs, potatoes, rice, chicken, and generic brands of peanut-butter, ice cream and bread.

Off the list should be premium and luxury items such as T-bone steak, and all the high price designer frozen and snack foods that fill Americas grocery stores. An example of where they should not be allowed is at the gas station-convenience store near my home where they can be used to purchase pop, cookies or a sandwich. More on this subject in the article below.

http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2012/01/food-stamp-reform-needed.html

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:45 | 4756574 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Good luck getting that toothpaste back into the tube.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 18:21 | 4756725 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

That sounds like the WIC program. A good idea, if the purpose is more to feed the indigent than to funnel money to food processors.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:40 | 4756559 Ariadne
Ariadne's picture

You are a slave if:

If your government criminalizes medicine, then regulates it.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:57 | 4756631 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

A few years back, the long-time owner of a local landmark diner was caught laundering SNAP cards, right before his business license was due for renewal.

Yet his license was renewed, as he was a "good guy."

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 19:14 | 4756936 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

When they were real stamps, paper with denominations printed on them, you could buy a piece of candy for  5 cents and pocket the change. I saw junkies doing exactly this, going from one cashier to the next in the same damn Safeway. One dollar at time, you could not exchange a 5 and get $ 4.95. You got four 1 dollar food stamps and did it five times.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:31 | 4756517 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

ITS PAYDAY!  I have actually heard people on the dole say "that when I get paid." This ZH article should be considered more proof that government has become to big a part of our economy. A "Government Centered Economy", who deserves credit for this very descriptive phrase? The first person I heard using this phrase was Mitt Romney.

The phrase may of been around for years or conjured up by one of his speech writers, but when used to describe the new American economy it is bang on. Government needs to get out of the way and let America get back to work, the job of government is not to compete with business. more on this subject in the article below.

http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2012/06/government-centered-economy.html

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:44 | 4756571 Overfed
Overfed's picture

A government-centered economy is akin to a parasite-centered ecosystem. Can't go on forever.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 17:46 | 4756580 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

I miss the sandwich board

Wed, 05/14/2014 - 01:51 | 4757961 kurt
kurt's picture

I miss the Smorgasboard

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 18:01 | 4756649 Spungo
Spungo's picture

"opined that prospective students should not hesitate to get on food stampts"

Of course. You should apply for ALL kinds of things. You should apply for every subsidy you can find. Apply for every scholarship. Apply for jobs that are just beyond your abilities. It's not shameful to use the programs that are available. Would you feel guilty calling the police when a burglar breaks in? Do you feel guilty when you use public roads? Do you feel guilty when you send your kids to public school? Will you feel guilty when you collect social security? You shouldn't. These government programs exist so you can use them. You should also take every tax deduction you can find. 

Think of it like baseball players taking steroids. If some of the players are on steroids, it's cheating. It all of the players are on steroids, it's a fair game. 

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 18:04 | 4756669 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

 

Sadly, it appears, the soup line is here to stay.

Until they run out of other people's money, that is.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 18:26 | 4756741 JR
JR's picture

The following observation from Rory at The Burning Platform describes a system that can’t be sustained, can’t be paid for by the American middle class:

“Having noted America's surging government dependence before, the impact of almost 50 million people on food stamps is hard to imagine if you are not in retail food. The spike in business beginning on the 3rd of each month is truly astounding. By the 10th of the month the business begins to normalize and by the 22nd the ship is sinking….”

This is not a system that works, a system where people who do not have EBT and Cash cards will continue to support to their own disadvantage. More and more people every day are discovering that the worth of their labor is being transferred to someone else.

The welfare/food stamp system is so out of control that it is not an economy that is here to stay but an economy that soon will be dying of its own weight as the parasites begin to try to take over the host. The host, middle-class non-EBT workers and producers that already has shrunk from 50.5% in 1970 to 42.2% in 2010, does not have to surrender to this monster, and it won’t.

The man who pays the bill, both to Wall Street and Easy Street, always has the option to stop paying.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 18:31 | 4756772 Spungo
Spungo's picture

But then you would need to use ID to check if someone is a member of the FSA before they vote. Asking for photo ID when someone votes or opens a bank account is rayciss.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 18:34 | 4756790 caShOnlY
caShOnlY's picture

The government encourages EBT use and has even advertised it in Mexico.   The key to understanding what is going on and knowing they even give out cash on these cards now is it evades the old welfare laws regulation of males on welfare.   Notice the fine young black stating he needs his "food stamps"? what he is telling you is he needs his "moneez".   The economiy is such a wreck the government is actually keeping the consumption game alive and america's only and last resort of wealth to the rest of the world: consumer of all shit produced.   Once the "great consumer" sham is over why would anyone need to trade or better yet FORCED TO USE US dollars anymore? (thus the speed and scam of TPP).

In my gut this ponzi is very close to ending - the world is awakening.   The FED will be exposed for the sham it has been for 100 years - a group of 'academic posers' owned by savvy Jamie Dimon.

 

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 18:36 | 4756793 villainvomit
villainvomit's picture

USA is on fire and it will burn much quicker than Rome.  Some will profit handsomely, some will die and the rest, well.....

At least we have Oshitcare, Social Ponzacurity and the Injustice Dept and fifty other govt programs and depts working for us.  I am sure it will all shake out quite nicely.  Yeah, yeah...NOT!

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 18:46 | 4756825 Spungo
Spungo's picture

It's part of the globalist agenda to depopulate the black population. First they enslave the black man on EBT cards. Then they will suddenly stop the cards and use the ensuing riots as a reason to put people in FEMA camps.

/Alex Jones

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 19:52 | 4757074 Navymugsy
Navymugsy's picture

Is "/Alex Jones"  the new "/Sarc" tag?

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 18:46 | 4756830 Spungo
Spungo's picture

<hold up EBT card>

FROM MY WELL FED HANDS!

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 19:05 | 4756831 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

One of the consistently shallow themes of comments on Zero Hedge are failures to perceive the degree to which "the fish rots from the head," regarding HOW the American democratic republic has been systematically destroyed. While it is clear that, for most people, in their practical circumstances, the Free Shit Army is an obvious problem, overall they are actually trivial. Indeed, the entire physical economy has become a relatively trivial component of the Free Money Army, that made and maintained the Free Shit Army.

Indeed, the divide and conquer strategy has been way too successful. The Free Shit Army was indirectly created by the prolonged effects of the banksters' triumphant frauds. The banksters' frauds are orders of magnitude bigger than the funding of the Free Shit Army. These problems have been building for more than a Century, at an exponential rate, while the American public money supply was gradually transformed from being backed by gold and silver, whose value was set by Congress, to become "money" made out of nothing by private banks, whereby the banksters became the founders of the Free Shit Army.

As always, we would have to go deeper and deeper and deeper into attempts to understand how and why it was possible for the banksters to create their core of the Free Money Army, which then developed for generation after generation until we have the Free Shit Army dependent upon that situation. I REPEAT MY THEORETICAL ASSERTIONS THAT THESE PROBLEMS ARE DUE THE METHODS OF ORGANIZED CRIME BEING WHAT NECESSARILY CONTROLS CIVILIZATION, AND THEREFORE, NO OTHER GENUINE SOLUTIONS EXIST OTHER THAN BETTER ORGANIZED CRIME.

http://peacerevolution.podomatic.com/entry/2014-05-11T08_17_37-07_00

That is a podcast discussing some of the very paradoxical ways that human ecology/economics was actually controlled by deceit/frauds! That podcast compilation goes on & on for fourteen hours. As usual, those are profound paradoxes, whereby various systems theories attempt to maintain established systems. As usual, the more one knows, the worse it gets, without any practical ways to actually change runaway insanities. The coining of the phrases for "holism," and "ecology," had extremely paradoxical origins due to ruling classes, or intellectuals paid and promoted within ruling classes, being the source of those concepts in the actual history! Deeper understanding of holistic evolving ecology necessarily includes operating deceits and frauds! Indeed, by definition, those are the central controls, as that podcast contents reviews how "The Art of War" basics continue to be success based on deceits, and that spies continue as the most important soldiers.

GreenWashed mom & apple pie kinds of ecology tended to deliberate ignore the deeper ecologies. False flag terrorism is a natural part of human ecology, found throughout the history of warfare. The American economy is now more dominated by the effects of an historical series of false flag attacks than ever before. It is not possible to understand the American economic problems without understanding the degree to which those problems were caused by a series of inside jobs. Overall, the less that better forms of death control operate, the more that worse forms end up happening! Since our ACTUAL political economy operates inside our REAL human ecology, through historical events that selected for them to be most successfully done through the most fraudulent and deceitful means possible, the banksters' Free Money Army has been behind making and maintaining the Free Shit Army.

The Free Shit Army is paradoxically an utterly incompetent "army" which does not understand, because it has been conditioned to not want to understand, how money is measurement backed by murder, because the ways that actually developed were driven by the triumphs of the banksters' Free Money Army, creating masses of brainwashed to believe in bullshit incompetent citizens, to fill the ranks of the Free Shit Army, as a socially necessary, but overall trivial component of the Free Money Army.

The Free Shit Army was made and maintained to exist by the Free Money Army. As the established systems of legalized lies, backed by legalized violence, automatically drive themselves to become more psychotic, due to the paradoxes of their successes being based on frauds. Their corrections continue to be theoretically based upon better understanding of the application of the methods of organized crimes that enabled those to happen in the first place. Increasingly we risk the combined money/murder systems collapsing into crazy chaos, where the runaway numbers of debt insanities drive corresponding death insanities to be provoked, such as would happen if, or probably when, something interrupts the ability of the Free Shit Army to continue to march on, as hordes of Zombie Sheeple.

One way or another, the corrections to the mistaken ways that the Free Shit Army operates as a component of the Free Money Army are going to be due to how the debt controls are backed up by the death controls. In one way or another, sooner or later, the corrections to the profound errors perpetrated by the Free Money Army paying for the Free Shit Army are going to work through their actually existing nexus, of the methods of organized crime operating the combined money/murder systems.

I recommend the idealized solutions of the Free Shit Army becoming more competent, which should become a greater use of information, and corresponding higher consciousness, about how the Free Shit Army is potentially an actual "army" which is responsible for death controls, to back up its actual debt controls. However, that idealized solution of the potential democratization of the death control is quite impractical due to the ways that the Free Shit Army is a relatively trivial component of the Free Money Army, because the banksters' Free Money Army is now orders of magnitude BIGGER than the entire physical economy, including everyone throughout the working and middle classes, as well as those who are members of the Free Shit Army, because the globalized systems of electronic frauds, backed up by the threats of force from atomic bombs, have become many orders of magnitude greater than the entire physical economy, that launched those technological systems into orbits that are trillions of times BIGGER than the physically apparent economy still on the ground.

In that context, where progress in science and technology has proven to be possible (while, so far, politics just keeps on getting stupider and stupider, as it tries to back up the same old lies with more violence), I like to indulge in the day dreams that enough of us might eventually understand enough of how general energy systems actually operate through human civilization. That could be the basis for better human and industrial ecologies, which are theoretically possible to be integrated within natural ecologies, if our monetary/military systems were not MADness backed by MADness (Money as Debt, backed by Mutual Assured Destruction).

Of course, I recognize that only seems like a vainglorious personal delusion, since the actual path we appear to be on is for the continuing deterioration of the Free Money Army MADness to eventually cause the increasingly psychotic deterioration of the Free Shit Army. The notion that enough human beings would become enlightened enough about how general energy systems operate through human civilization appears to be practically impossible, while the current systems continuing to run away towards collapses into crazy chaos appears to be the obvious default reset position that we are now headed towards ...

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 19:56 | 4757087 samsara
samsara's picture

Standing and Clapping.

Someone else posted that the FSA.was just "The fat kid in dodge ball"
Easy Target but as you said that's not the big money though.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 20:27 | 4757196 honestann
honestann's picture

A couple observations.

-----

An individual in the "free stuff army" gets one vote, and invariably they vote for predators who promise they will rob producers blind in order to give them "lots of free stuff".

In contrast, the few sane, honest, honorable, productive, benevolent individuals on this planet get how many votes?  Answer: none.  Why?  Because they are not willing to sanction or support any form of slavery, including "democracy" (whatever the majority wants).

-----

Though maybe you agree with me, and actually said so somewhere in your 50 billion words of writing, the fact is, we (honest, ethical, productive, benevolent individuals) DO need to be even better destroyers than the predators are... but only to destroy predators, which pretty much translates into the term "self-defense".

Unfortunately, I can't be sure whether you agree with this or not, because all I ever read is your claim that we must become better at organized CRIME than the predators.  Well, I disagree.  Self-defense is NOT murder (but certainly can involve killing), and SELF-DEFENSE IS NOT CRIME.

I have explained many times in ZH articles what the roots of the situation are, though you may have missed some of my explanations as I have certainly missed some of yours (thought both of us repeat ourselves quite a bit).  But let me repeat here where you will probably see this point.

This fundamental point I refer to here is...

Destruction is inherently, necessarily and massively more potent and powerful than production.

Consider a typical home.  How much time, effort, talent, expertise and resources are required to design, construct and furnish a home?  Answer: Quite a bit.  How much time, effort, talent, expertise and resources are required to destroy that home?  Answer: one moron with zero talent or expertise, one free match (optionally aided by $5 worth of gasoline), and about five minutes.

Why is this observation about the fundamental nature of reality important?

Because destruction is so vastly easier, and so vastly cheaper than production, THE MERE THREAT OF DESTRUCTION is sufficient to convince producers to submit to almost any demands the predators make.

In my opinion, most modern predators are typically much more realistic and much smarter than most modern producers.  However, the advantage predators have due to the fundamental nature of reality (the potency of destruction) is so enormous, and so easy to apply, that predators have an enormous inherent advantage... even before we consider the many other factors that favor predators (like their domination and control of the habituation of human brains for most of the first 20 years of life via parents, schools, media, etc).

-----

Once you understand the previous section, you should understand why populated areas ALWAYS HAVE BEEN dominated by predators, and why they WILL ALWAYS BE dominated by predators in the future.

I will add one disclaimer here.  IF... producers would FULLY take advantage of this metaphysical fact of reality (the massively greater potency and power of destruction versus destruction) to destroy the predators, then predators and producers would be on close to even footings, and then predators would be defeated.  Because producers DO have a couple POTENTIAL advantages over predators, though they are not as powerful as the fundamental metaphysical potency of destruction.

Once we understand this, we can also understand why liberty and human advancement almost always arises primarily in FRONTIERS.  Before modern times, certain parts of earth were frontiers, and therefore either NOT RULED by human predators, or so weakly ruled that the frontier dynamic still applied for most practical purposes.  The best, bravest, brightest, most independent individuals could escape to frontiers and be mostly free of human predators (at least overwhelmingly powerful organized human predators).

But today, the entire surface of earth is "claimed" by one pack of predators or another, and so no theoretical FULL-BORE frontiers exist.  Sadly, most individualists do not realize "effective frontiers" can be found, where population density is so low that being "out of sight, out of mind" is practical.

-----

Once an individual understands ALL the above points, they will understand that the predators have unbreakable control of all densely populated locations on the planet... in practice (they could be overthrown by 1% of the population, but the percentage of the population willing to take the required actions is probably only 0.000001%... IF THAT).

At this point, honest individuals have ONLY the following choices:

 - give up and accept slavery in theory and practice
 - escape to one of the practical semi-frontiers
 - join endeavors to move into outer space
 - develop a mind-boggling technology

Most people... including [nominal] producers... choose #1, and most of them figure they might as well become part of the "free stuff army" to some degree, since everyone else is too.

Because almost every human is brainwashed from birth to think in large-scale collectivist terms... even "individualists" tend to look for large-scale and sorta-collectivist ways to implement liberty and individualism.  THIS CANNOT WORK for many reasons, including those mentioned above.  Sadly, only a minuscule number of individualists ever even consider an individualist solution like "move to a semi-frontier and live a largely self-sufficient existence that is [mostly] out of sight, out of mind from predator view and interference".  Though this requires at least [roughly] $300K to $500K personal savings to implement in a form that most westerners would accept, such endeavors are quite practical for tiny-scale collaborative efforts of 2 to 8 like-minded individualists/couples/families.

The main problem of "moving into space" are rather obvious.  Only multi-billionaires can achieve these results with their own resources, and only a few other serious efforts are underway, none of which are fully "collaborative" (most are controlled by one or a few people, so contributors have little reason to believe they will ever be able to escape to outer space themselves).

The final way is only possible for somewhere between one and a few individuals on planet earth at any given time.  And for practical purposes, any technology that could unilaterally "defeat the predators" is wiser to apply to "get off the planet".  Therefore, this option is not worth further discussion (though feel free to financially support any breakthrough effort you might identify).

-----

Frankly, every individual should recognize how massively delusional they are to imagine they even SHOULD BE able to completely change the direction of mankind as a whole (or even one advanced nation).  Seriously... that's just crazy thought, and crazy talk.

However, if individualist were indeed practical at all, they would band together, organize, plan... and take over some tiny corrupt clueless government somewhere, and establish an "official anarchy" of some kind.  I mean, sheesh!  There are cases, even in very recent history, where wacko individuals take over a freaking nation.  Case in point is FIJI, where essentially one jerk took over the government and deemed himself "ruler".  A few dozen individualists with a half decent plan could move there and replace him quite easily.  But "won't happen", because liberty advocates and individualists rarely even consider whether more practical or efficient ways exist to achieve their goals.

My point being... only small-scale endeavors have ANY chance of success.  And when I say "small-scale" here, I refer-to the number of individuals involved, not necessarily the number of dollars involved.  A few very rich individualists do exist, and small collaborations of individualists could... if they had any brains... find ways to aggregate substantial resources.

-----

The current system cannot be fixed.

ALL "political solutions" are impractical.

ALL efforts in conventional directions are pointless.

A tiny, corrupt, clueless "nation" could be "taken over".

Individual and tiny-scale collaborations in frontiers WORK.

Endeavors to develop capacity to leave earth are feasible.

ALL talk of politics is worse than a waste of time.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 23:59 | 4757582 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

honestann, as an empirical observation, I have to agree with your conclusion that "The current system cannot be fixed. ALL "political solutions" are impractical."

I also agreed with about 90% of the other things you wrote. Where I disagree is when you begin to assert what I regard as false fundamental dichotomies, which I regard as ignoring the paradoxes, such that I do NOT agree that self-defence killing is not killing. Whether or not it is "murder" is a fine point of semantics, which depends on whether some court of law would decide there was a justifiable defence for that killing, in order to make that killing not be classed as murder. There were elaborate ideas developed in the history of criminal law about legal killing, and illegal killing, where the illegal is defined as murder or manslaughter, as a crime, but the other killings have defences to that, so one can have killed, but not be found guilty of murder.

I tend to have little use for the de jure, which I regard as always being bullshit. Instead, I am interested only in the de facto. I want to approach ALL political problems through the SAME general energy system principles, and to develop a lanuage in order to do that. That language is radically different than the commonly used language of fundamental dichotomies, and related impossible ideals that are based upon falsely presuming that those dichotomies are fundamental. I am well-aware that almost all natural languages, and the vast majority of human cultures, HAVE been using the language of what I regard as false fundamental dichotomies, and their related impossible ideas. However, I regard that as being profoundly wrong, from the perspective of the advances in the philosophy of science.

What I am concerned about is that we HAVE technologies based upon those sciences, while the vast majority of people have NOT changed the ways that they think. THUS: things like globalized electronic frauds, backed by the force of atomic bombs, being trillions of times BIGGER ... while our civilization cruises on the autopilot of MADNESS, due to failure to adapte our thinking to match those advances in science and technology.

Therefore, everything I am saying comes out of my way of thinking, which is a creative synthesis of ancient mysticism within postmodernizing science, because what the advancing science itself says is that there are NO fundamental dichotomies. Therefore, impossible ideals based on those dichotomies are wrong, which is WHY they always backfire badly in the real world. My attempts to apply a systematic synthetic mode of thought, which is attempting NOT to rely on fundamental dichotomies, drives me to try to understand what are the real unitary mechanisms. When I do that, the language that I find most approriate is that human realities are ALWAYS organized systems of lies operating robberies. I do not agree with the ideas of a fundamental dichotomy between truth and lies. There are only relative lies. The "absolute Truth" is the total of all lies, but nobody can know "It." That was the typical ways that the perennial philosophy of ancient mysticism attempted to cope with the human condition, through its kinds of transcendental poetry, which I am attempting to make become slightly more scientific.

The elementary principles of philosophy and spirituality are based on understanding that we are creating our own "reality" in our minds, and that, whatever we try to do to be "honest" is necessarily limited by the ways that everything we percieve is necessarily some relative illusions of lies. We never can Know about anything, including ourselves, except as we appear. Whatever we are beyond that we may well BE, but can not be experienced in any ways which can be captured in any finite description, that can be communicated. Anything we communicate must necessary be based on relative lies and illusions. It is never possible to be completely and consistently honest. Any natural lanuage is built on sets of philosophical presumptions, many of which may be wrong. Even the most abstract languages couched in mathematics still share some of those problems.

All of my ideas are based on the concept of SUBTRACTION. That is profoundly paradoxical, because it is impossible to have any ultimate subtraction. Since no part is ever totally subtracted, the processes of robberies across the defined boundaries are never total, and so the process of robbery is never finished.

As you sort of pointed out, honestann, the production of destruction controls production. My point is that the production of destruction is another form of production. I do not agree with a fundamental dichotomy between life and death. I do not agree with a fundamental dichotomy between production and destruction. From the point of view of energy sytems, it is impossible to destroy energy, nor create it out of nothing. It is only possible to for energy to direct its own transformation.

From my point of view, merely because the biggest bullies create systems of legalized lies, backed by legalized violence, that does not change anything basic. Just because some killing has a legal justification within the biggest bullies' bullshit does not change anything basic, other than that is how they have rules to operate their own systems of organized lies operating robberies. The history of warfare selected for the systems which could survive conflicts, by killing other people, before they were killed. That developed the history of weapons and social organizations that went along with them. It has now resulted in things like weapons of mass destruction, based on understanding energy systems, used by societies which are dominated by old-fashioned religions and ideologies, which do not understand energy systems, but rather, then to rather deliberately not want to understand, and furthrmore, which tend to suppress understanding.

In my view EVERYONE has some power to rob, and power to kill to back up that robbery, and that is the basic necessity for them to live. Human beings always operated as robbers in their environment, as soon as one perceives them as separate from their environment. Human civilizations were always organized systems of social robberies. Governments were always the biggest form of organized crime, controlled by the best organized gang of criminals. The only difference is that whomever are the biggest bullies gets to promote their bullshit as the "truth," which therefore enables them to assert their systems of legalized lies, backed by legalized violence. However, my view is all that de jure rationalizations and justifications have no use other than to enable them to organize their own systems of lies, in order to engage in robberies.

My view is that we have no choice but to have to muddle through the madness of the dynamic equilibria between different systems of organized lies operating robberies. That is what the political process IS, and must necessarily be. I repeat that I am attempting to apply the notions of an intellectual scientific revolution in the philosophy of science through the politics of a technologicaly based civilization. When I try to do that, the language that I generate to talk about things has been shaped by how I try to apply unitary mechanisms to understand what actually exists.

What actually exists are different gangs of organized criminals, the best organized of which get to call themselves governments, or to control those governments. In my view it is impossible that the real world could exist any other way. Therefore, better politics necessarily means better organized crime. More competent citizens use their own power to rob and to kill through the political processes. The existence of governments was ALREADY the assembling and channelling of the power to rob and to kill to become what governments actually are. Most people have lost track of the history whereby rights and freedoms were legally recognized, because there is no freedom without a force, and no right without a remedy. People have been forgetting what the real basis was for why we ended up with the ideals of a democratic republic and the rule of law. Those things have been inverted and perverted, at the same time as words like "money" had their meaning inverted and perverted.

The problems are that too many people were taught to be believe in bullshit, namely, false fundamental dichotomies and related impossible ideals, so that they did not understand that being a citizen meant that they were members of an organized crime gang. As incompetent citizens, they gradually allowed the operation of those crime gangs to get worse and worse, because their dynamic equilibria became more and more unbalanced, with runaway social polarization, and destruction of the natural world, both of which are the result of evil deliberate ignorance running amok!

In my view, the only good solutions to those problems would require more people to learn to become better predators. In my view, anyone who can rob a robber is also a robber, and there are no ways out of that paradox, but to embrace it and go through that. Sovereinty is based on the power to rob. That power is something that everyone shares to some degree. Power is always distributed. However, it can be assembled and channeled. Theoretically, a democratic republic is supposed to assemble and channel the individual powers to rob through the rule of law into the collective governmental power to rob. That organized robbery is supposed to thereby become better than the otherwise disorganized robbery.

However, what actually happened was that the best organized gangs of criminals were able to apply the methods of organized crime to dominate the political processes, and thereby achieved the almost total privatization of the public powers to rob. That was expecially manifested in the ways that private banks became legally allowed to make the public "money" supply out of nothing as debts, rather than have the public money supply  be backed by gold and silver, whose value was set by Congress. Thus, the public power to control money was almost totally privatized, and that drove a runaway vicious spiral of symbolic social robbery, to get worse, faster, for about a Century. Therefore, my view is that after the best organized criminals, the biggest gangsters, the banksters, were able to capture control over the political processes, and thereby legalized themselves being able to counterfeit the public "money" supply, that became a runaway system of legalized robbery, backed by legalized murder, i.e., in America, institutions such as the Federal Reserve Board and the IRS.

The deeper problems that I try to discuss are that most of the people who go through the process of understanding that the banksters are criminals that have taken control over the government, then collapse back to the same old false fundamental dichotomies and related impossible ideals when they propose "solutions" to those problems.

On the other hand, I say that we have to rob the robbers back into better balance, which includes becoming more self-aware that then we too are robbers. Significant changes are going to actually mean the emergence of some new kind of ruling classes, which are supported by some new kinds of larger groups around them. I like to day dream about the emergence of a transnational scientific community, which will do that through a new kind of translithic civilization. That would all be based on applying to politics, through the military and monetary systems, ways of understanding everything as operating as energy systems, which would include a radical critique of the concept of entropy, and the other areas where the philosophy of science has previously been a victim of the biggest bullies' bullshit social stories distorting perceptions.

Anyway, honestann, reading your reply reminds me of almost everything else I ever read, which is about 90% good analysis based on relatively useful dichotomies, followed by about 10% of collapse back to bullshit "solutions" based on a return to false fundamental dichotomies and their related impossible ideals as the basis of those "solutions."

At the present time, the most important FRONTIER exists in the ways that we think. There is a frontier to think differently. Most of what I do is based on attempting to apply the ways that I have learned to think about general energy systems to politics. In that context, ENERGY IS SPIRIT. People who are not aware of, or who do not like, how postmodernizing science is reconverging back to become like ancient mysticism are probably not going to be able to understand what I am trying to say, or will not like it.

But nevertheless, I believe that the best path forward is to accept that governments are NECESSARILY, by axiomatic definitions, the biggest form of organized crime, controlled by the best organized gangs of criminals, and therefore, the only better government is better organized crime.

That is the frame of reference in which to approach the problem of about 50 million Americans now being members of the Free Shit Army. That is also the frame of reference that one should use to apporach the problem of the Free Money Army. Do better scientific analysis of the problems, but then do NOT collapse back to old-fashioned religions and idelogies when proposing solutions. Rather, base solutions on intellectual scientific revolutions, which apply to politics in general, and especically to the monetary and military systems. Most of what I am saying requires seeing the world mostly backwards to the ways that we were taught to look at in the public schools, and by the mass media, which were promoting the biggest bullies' bullshit social stories' world view. After doing that, one will see that we are already a long ways done the road of creating alternatives, which we could finally recognize and assemble into systems, IF enough of us changed our perceptions of our political problems.

A LOT of Zero Hedge content, and other alternative news Web sites, is about perceiving that the government IS the biggest form of organized crime, controlled by the best organized gangs of criminals. In that context, the Free Shit Army tend to be lots of relatively trivial fringe case criminals, who have been marginalized by the mainline of the Free Money Army. However, so far, almost all of the content on Zero Hedge, and other alternatives, tend to do the same as you do, honestann, which is go through about 90% relatively good analysis, only to have their "solutions" collapse back to bullshit in the last 10%, mostly because they are still reactionary revolutionaries, that want their "solutions" to be based on the impossible ideals which are due to perceiving things in terms of false fundamental dichotomies, which usually actually tend to understand the mechanisms backwards to how they actually exist and operate.

... So anyway, thanks for engaging in the debate, honestann, which is the same one that I have had with many thousands of other people for decades. I am not asserting that my views are written in stone, and could not change. What I am saying is that the way we think about physics should be the way that we think about metaphysics. Physics has made astonishing progress, which has enabled technologies which are trillions of times more powerful and capable. However, the vast majority of the human population has not changed their metaphysics in accordance with that.

If there was more clearly proven and agreed upon progress in physics, then I should also change my metaphysics, and so should everyone else. However, those FRONTIERS are not yet clear enough to agree upon. But still, the basic sciences that made things like computers and genetic engineering possible should be appreciated more deeply when dealing with the political problems those present. However, since our politics is almost totally based on triumphant deceits and frauds, and their corresponding attitudes of evil deliberate ignorance, we are dismally failing to respect evidence and logic, but rather are living in a society which continues to respond to its problems with nothing else than bigger lies, backed by more violence!

I do not advocate that there be absolute honesty, and no violence, and I do not advance those as the ideals which should be the basis of what we try to do (except that they already transcendentally exist.) Rather, my view is that we should accept that everything human beings actually do must necessarily be relative systems of organized lies, operating robberies. To the degree that humans are not separated from their environment, then they are already perfectly participating in the conservation of energy. From my view, all the ideals such as truth, justice or beauty, come from the existence of energy. However, everything that we ever know about, by naming and assigning properties to, are due to us relatively subtracting those from their environment, which is the beginning to any human story about anything, including about ourselves. After we define any living thing to be thus separated, or subtracted, from its environment, then it lives by taking energy from its environment, which is basically robbery.

Thus, it is human perceptions which create our problems, and it should be by changing our perceptions that we develop better solutions to those problems. That is the context in which I assert my various axioms, such as that money is measurement backed by murder, and that the debt controls depend upon the death controls. All of those perceptions are what I believe are necessary to deal with the Free Shit Army, and the Free Money Army, and so forth, which are operating as runaway systems of lies, which are lying to themselves too badly to be able to change in better ways, rather than end up being forced to change in worse ways.

From the point of view of practical politics, at the present time, the existence of the large and growing Free Shit Army looks like an impossible to fix problem, which was what this article above concluded was probably the case. But nevertheless, a lot of my irrational political hopes are based on the possibility that, as things get worse, more people will be forced to think more radically, and that, maybe, enough of them will start thinking in the ways that I have suggested ???

Wed, 05/14/2014 - 02:09 | 4757983 honestann
honestann's picture

Huh?  Of course killing in self-defense is killing?  What's wrong with killing?  I keep advocating for MORE killing... LOTS and LOTS more killing... but only in self-defense.  And to make sure you understand what I mean by "self-defense", I do not just mean killing WHILE someone is trying to harm you, I also mean anyone who harms others on multiple occasions or as a matter of policy (like their job for some official or non-official predator).  So I have no idea why you think I have a problem with killing.  Killing is a brave and virtuous action... when you are killing a predator (AKA "destroying a destroyer").

And drop the disingenuous nonsense about "murder as defined by law".  That's BS.  You and I both know perfectly well what murder is, and what murder is not, without any need whatsoever for any law or any deity or any government to decide for us.

If you honestly believe the difference between self-defense and murder is some minor technicality or "fine point"... you really are completely out to lunch, and you need help!

If you simply can't stop your brain for wasting its time and rationality by studying the endless forms of insanity that happen in "official government courts", then let's drop the term "murder" altogether, and just say the following.  If someone harms or destroys me or my friends or collaborators or property... or even attempts to, then I am 100% justified to kill them dead.  End of story.

Perhaps the easiest way to think about this issue is to think about non-human animal predators like lions, tigers, panthers, bears, wolves and so forth (in a rural part of the world).  If any of these predators [are trying to] attack you, or your family, or your friends, or your livestock, or your property... you kill them.  And if any predators has been causing death and destruction in your area, you and your friends go out on a hunting party to find that specific predator... and you kill them.

Okay, got that?  The same goes for human animals.  The ONLY difference is, you know that some humans are non-predators (producers or taken-care-of by others), and so you cannot just go around killing every human like you can with other animal predators.

I seriously cannot understand why you keep confusing [my position on] this issue.

Please note that 100% of the above is de facto.  I make ZERO reference to laws, to courts, to legality, to officials, to governments or anything else.  Which just makes my complete confusion over your confusion and misrepresentation of my position even more impossible to understand.

I agree with you that conventional language is chock full of nonsense.  You should know that I know that from reading my messages.  Which is why I absolutely never argue from laws, or courts, or officials, or regulations, or governments.  Instead, I say exactly what I based my comments upon, which is ALWAYS some fundamental aspect of REALITY, not man, and not anything arbitrary at all.  However, the universe is not just "energy", so any perspective that only considers "energy" is too limited.

As for "impossible ideals"... why do you think I advised people against thinking THEY can (or even be able to) change the world?

A phrase like "human realities are always organized systems of lies" is SICK and WRONG, especially so coming immediately after talking about how we can take scientific perspectives.  Before I bash you over the head about this, note that my post above actually advocated something that might SOUND similar to that.  But when you read everything, you see that only applies to large-scale human systems.  Which is why I continue on to NOT large-scale possibilities --- where futility and characterizations like yours are no longer necessary).

Take my personal "human reality" for instance.  I see other human beings about 4 times per year for about 2 hours duration, when I fly to a tiny town to pick up supplies that I do not produce for myself.  The rest of the time, I am alone (unless you count bashing keys in these stupid ZH text-boxes, and exchanging emails with my project collaborators).  I grow my food, write my code, wander under the sky full of stars, look through my telescope, eat, sleep and enjoy my solitude.  The only reason I even write in ZH is because it actually hurts to know how wonderful my life is while virtually everyone else on the planet suffers in their... well... organized systems of lies (and the psychological and physical misery that causes).

Which means "my human reality is not an organized system of lies".

I'm sure you could make a few incredibly minor quibbles with this statement that have some tiny bit of validity.  For example, on those 4 days per year where I go trade my gold wafers for supplies... some of the goods and goodies I get do not fall into the category of "grown locally without any connection whatsoever to any outside interaction".  So yeah, you could say that when I'm building a new PC-board that I designed, and I receive some integrated circuits... the people they originally came from DO live and act within that "organized system of lies", even though the specific interaction I have is only about human and machine produced physical goods.  But those humans (and those machines) exist in the kind of "system of organized lies" you mention.

But give me (and everyone else) a break!  Just because someone accidentally consumes one molecule of food that came from a GMO organism... does not mean we must characterize EVERYTHING and EVERYONE as "poison" ALL THE TIME and IN EVERY WAY.  Talk about disingenuous and twisted semantics!

Maybe I should say this another way.  Hopefully this will be more meaningful to you.  Since we agree this large planet-wide twisted system of organized lies will not be eliminated by anything you or I or the entire collection of liberty-minded folks will EVER do... let's stop wasting all our time focusing on endless characterizations thereof.  To endlessly analyze a "system of organized lies" is POINTLESS and COUNTERPRODUCTIVE once you realize:

A:  we can't end that system.
B:  viable (or potentially viable) alternatives exist.

Think about it.  I do not lie to anyone.  I do not cheat anyone.  I do not defraud anyone.  I do not steal from anyone.  I do not deceive anyone.  I do not harm anyone.  And thus "organized lies" have (for practical purposes) ZERO place in my life, my actions and my experiences.  You have to stretch to two or three levels of indirection before any aspect of my life has anything to do with "systems of organized lies".

However, we both know that almost everywhere but extremely remote places have unavoidable connections with "systems of organized lies and violence".

But since we both know nothing can be done about that, why waste your life on that?

You write a long paragraph about how you know all about some fundamental reality that is the real us but you cannot detect in any way, shape of form... and then utterly reject what you CAN learn about ourselves and our world with the senses we DO have and the intellectual abilities we DO have.  How sad!  Accept that the notion that "knowledge" == "omniscience" is one of those diabolical LIES that you are talking about, and focus on what you CAN learn, even if everything you learn is a "provisional inference" that you update as you have new experiences.  This is how I CAN BE and AM "perfectly honest", by accepting that "knowledge" is not the same as "omniscience", but is "provisional inference based upon all the experiences I have" (not assertions by "authorities").  That is as "perfect" as real knowledge can be, so suck it up, accept that, and stop being mislead by the LIE that only omniscience can be called "knowledge".  To accept that is to claim you know NOTHING about ANYTHING until you know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING... which is one of those LIEs you hate... but then accept, hook, line and sinker.

We do not create reality.  Our consciousness does not create reality (not "the reality" or "our reality" or "any reality").  Those formulations are just more of the diabolical systems of lies that you HATE, but then adopt and attempt to promote!  SICK.

Just because I have the POWER TO ROB... does NOT mean that I ROB.  And the same goes for a million other activities.

By "real world", you must mean "that part of the world with high population density", because you are WRONG that the only possibility is for our gang of predators to be more effective predators than the current gang of predators.  I means... screw it!  Why would that be any better?

But what I hope you REALLY mean is, we (the productive and benevolent) should be even more capable of aggressive force as predators.  With that I fully agree!  But that is NOT being a predator, that is defending ourselves against predators (and scaring them away).  Just as predators get most people to SUBMIT WITHOUT ATTACK simply by threatening, the honest, ethical, productive and benevolent beings can become super-capable of aggressive force in order to get the predators to GO AWAY WITHOUT ATTACK.  No predator wants to be ripped to shreds either.

POLITICS IS FRAUD and FORCE.

Therefore, POLITICS MAKES YOU A PREDATOR.

And therefore, no honest, ethical, productive, benevolent individual CAN achieve their goals via politics.

We don't disagree about HOW the current crop of predators dominate producers.  We disagree about what to do about it.  You say, "if you can't beat them, join them, become even nastier than them, and then run this planet of predators".  I say, "I will have nothing to do with being harmed by predators, or with harming others (except in self-defense)".  I want NO PART of their vile game... except to be more effective at hiding, evading, and if necessary, violence against predators (but only predators).

You can't win WITHIN the corrupt system, except by being a corrupt predator.  I refuse to waste my life in that way.  You can do whatever you wish.  But count me out.  Which means for me, don't fight those rigged mechanisms... avoid them.

You will never implement a better system.  Neither will I.  Grow up and accept that, because that much is utterly obvious.

Which means you can waste your life trying to achieve what is impossible, or you can look for ways to live outside that "corrupt system of lies and violence".  You know my choice.  You choose for yourself.  Sadly, you appear to have so much attention-space invested in this huge system that you cannot bring yourself to LEAVE IT.

I am NOT like others.  I DO NOT have a cure for the system.

I cannot even imagine how you can say such things with a straight face!  I say the only hope is to AVOID and ESCAPE the system, while you and everyone else talks about how to jigger the system... yet in some amazing feat of evasion of fact manage to convince yourself that I am like everyone else (and you)... trying to jigger the existing system.

Mankind is finished.

That's my take on "the system".  Got it.  No fix.  So no, I am not like all those others.

Of course governments are the biggest and most powerful forms of organized "crime", except the fact that "crime" is merely an arbitrary definition of that government, which makes the whole observation a bit circuitous and arbitrary.

???  SO WHAT  ???

Your answer is to jigger that system.  Mine is to LEAVE IT.

You want a BETTER GOVERNMENT.  I refuse to pretend "government" is real.

Gotta leave now, so I'll have to leave the last third of your message unanswered.

Wed, 05/14/2014 - 20:28 | 4761174 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

AKA "destroying a destroyer" creates an infinite loop regression.

Several decades ago, I made a serious investigation, and some experimental efforts, to "LEAVE IT." Eventually I concluded that was not actually possible, especially considering the threat of an insane war with atomic weapons. Therefore, instead, I attempted to participate in the registered political processes, and I still am doing that. From a practical point of view, I think that working on that for a few decades has confirmed that nothing is going to work to prevent the runaway criminal insanities of our current civilization from getting worse, faster ...

However, I do not recognize that what you are recommending, honestann, could possibly work except for a very small number of privileged individuals. I am attempting to develop a political science which, at least theoretically, could work, which steers a course which tacks as close to the wind of reality as possible. I agree that politics is based on enforced frauds, however, I continue to think that there is nothing else but the dynamic equilibria of those things to work through. Politics is dealing with attempting to balance the forces and frauds, if possible, however possible.

I still have the basic scientific frame of reference that every entity, as a living system, operates as an entropic pump, both with respect to energy and information. Therefore, nothing is sufficiently different in the way that you live, or I live, to make a difference in those basics. Furthermore, such a consistent energy system approach regarding human beings continues to be the only one which could reconcile them, at least theoretically, to industrial ecology and natural ecologies, which are also energy systems

"Government" is real, in the sense that organizations have an energy in their whole organization, which is more than the energy in merely their parts. What made government "real" was the tests of survival through history, where people were in conflicts, and those who were the best at being dishonest and backing that up with violence prevailed. Better social organization, which could achieve more and better weapons, used more effectively, was an energy in that whole system, which enabled it to survive in conflict with others.

Just because you do not like human predators obviously does not stop them from existing. I agree with you that the currently entrenched ruling classes, including those they rule over, created a system which is now too criminally insane to continue, but rather is madly self-destructive. I do not necessarily think that is 100% final and fatal, but that there will be severe social storms blow through.

I think that there could be better murder systems, to back up better money systems. I say that those are necessarily organized systems of robbery, which must exist, because human beings basically live as robbers in their environment. Everyone, including you, are turning natural resources into garbage and pollution. At present, it is practially impossible to get anyone to pay attention to developing better ecologies, like the natural ecologies were, in order for there to be ways to have rates of robbery that would continue be workable for longer. Instead, we are rushing towards overshoot, and then catastropic collapse into chaos.

In that case, maybe those in remote, more self-sufficient lifestyles would be able to survive, while the 50 million extremely poor, especially living in big cities, like those talked about in this article above, may be less able to survive. However, none of that is enough to deny in principle, at least theoretically, perhaps comprehending how we might develop better ecologies, which were consistent with the sciences that have made technologies become trillions of times more powerful, which are WHY the problems are so BIG, and getting BIGGER, FASTER!

I work on the political science fiction/fantasies about how human beings MIGHT adapt to technologies becoming trillions of times more powerful. So far, the realistic chances of that happening without way worse things happening first seem practically zero, and how bad those worse things will become is quite unpredictable. But nevertheless, what I am saying has some theoretical chance of becoming more universal and workable, while what you are saying, honestann, could only work for a very small number of relatively privileged individuals, while, even for them, all bets would be off IF things did significantly collapse into chaos, which the craziness of the current civilization appears to practically guarantee WILL happen eventually, and probably sooner, rather than later.

Anyway, we can agree to disagree on the theory, and in practice none of it matters anyway. The vast majority of people are not going to pay any attention to anything we are discussing, until it was already way too late to do anything about it then ... after which things get way too unpredictable to guess about ... I merely indulge in attempting to think more consistently about these problems.

Wed, 05/14/2014 - 22:05 | 4761406 honestann
honestann's picture

No "destroy a destroyer" is not an infinite regression, not if you understand the meaning rather than just play word games.  Previously you mentioned "science" and "scientific method", but what you're doing is the opposite.  I'll explain why, though of course this is not exactly 100% exact in every respect.

To "destroy a producer" is -1 = -1 * +1.

To "destroy a destroyer" is +1 = -1 * -1.

Of course, those ones should not be ones, because different individuals are not equally productive or destructive.  Plus, one could argue with the operator --- should the operator be addition or some other operator?

But also, in reality, destroying destroyers eventually leaves us with... zero destroyers, which means we have no "infinite loop regression IN REALITY", only in some odd word-game sort of way.

----

Your conclusions about nuclear war are very weak.

First, the MAD principle may hold far beyond your lifetime, in which case making personal choices on the assumption an all-out global thermonuclear war will occur is... extremely weak.

Second, if a nuclear war does occur, far more likely the nuclear war will be FAR from global, and probably also FAR from all-out (meaning, "blow them all up").  Which means you can make personal choices about where to live, and definitely exclude DC, Beijing and Moscow... or more sensibly, USSA, China, Russia [and UK, EU, AU, ??].

Third, get off the freaking planet is an option (or self-sufficient complexes underground or beneath the ocean floor).

Plus, as you said, your attempts to "fix the system", and your observations of all other attempts to "fix the system" lead you to conclude the obvious, namely... not gonna happen.

-----

However, I do not recognize that what you are recommending could possibly work except for a very small number of privileged individuals.

Yes, you are correct, except you chose the wrong characterization.  For example, I am definitely NOT an privileged individual... at least in any sense of that term that I can think up.  However, you're pretty close.  I would change that term to rare or diligent or something else, because what an individual needs to save their ass is... extraordinary commitment.  However, what I call "extraordinary commitment" is not all that extraordinary in magnitude, only in how few folks choose these kind of goals.  For example, HUGE numbers of individuals waste a lot more time, effort, talent and resources on toys and college brainwashing than may be required to be one of those "extraordinary individuals".

However, one additional dynamic does exist.  If seriously large numbers of individuals started taking these steps and working towards these goals, the predators-that-be would take notice and... take serious steps to destroy such endeavors.  So yes, the total number of individuals who adopt these approaches does need to remain... small.

-----

To look at everything as "energy pumps" or "entropy pumps" or any variations upon those kinds of approaches are vastly too narrow... ESPECIALLY on a planet with a big honking unshielded nuclear fusion reactor in the sky, and the vast bulk of planet beneath our feet hot as hell (available energy).  Pretending terms like "energy" and "entropy" are important while ignoring or minimizing the "production" versus "destruction" dimension is... completely self-defeating.

-----

No, "government" is not real.  This is TRIVIAL to demonstrate.  Take a few (or few dozen, or few hundred, or few thousand, or few million) thugs, have them threaten, harm and steal from humans.

Now, what you are saying is equivalent to the following.  If these thugs DO NOT assign themselves a name... no government exists (and is real).  If these thugs DO assign themselves a name.. a government exists (and is real).

That's just crazy talk, and a distinction without any meaningful difference.  Obviously NOTHING real is added to reality by adding a label to something... except the LABEL.  So yeah, the LABEL exists, but that is not what anyone means by "government".  The proof of that is... other groups of thugs have names too... by nobody calls them "government".

-----

Of course human predators don't cease to exist just because I don't like them.  That's why I advocate killing them.  Duh.  Not that I expect to get all of them, but hey, fewer is definitely better.

-----

Oh man!  Now I'm sure you've consumed way too much (or way to radical) marijuana!  To claim humans are ROBBERS (and therefore by natural inference "predators") because they "crush stones" (to make a driveway, or melt to produce iron or steel), is a completely INSANE reason to write phrases like the following (copied from your message):

I say that those are necessarily organized systems of robbery, which must exist, because human beings basically live as robbers in their environment.

I'm serious!  You are a smart guy, so I am very confident that if anyone else attempted such absurd, nonsensical intellectual fraud by "slight of words" and "Sith mind tricks"... you'd kick their butts around the block 1000 times (intellectually speaking).  So don't adopt disingenuous nonsense to support your own pet ideas either, okay?

Also, even if you are correct that I do not have a net zero or negative impact on the environment (in some very localized sense), that just serves to distract from ANY real issue.  That is, unless you advocate the complete extermination of all humans... AND ALL ANIMALS... because they impact the environment.  I care A LOT about keeping the environment clean and healthy, but do not believe we must all kill ourselves in order to assure the earth returns to whatever kind of "pristine wonderland" you imagine it will be a few million years after all humans are dead.

You do realize the entire universe is out there still, right?  And it is still 100% pristine.

All I'm saying is... you need a place for "magnitude" and "universal significance" in there... somewhere!

-----

You know what?  If 99.9% of human beings perish, including those 50 million in whatever city you refer to, I will have the absolutely certainty that it wasn't me who caused that, but "predators who develop and manipulate organized systems of lies and violence".  That includes you, since that is your explicitly solution... to find ways to manipulate the lies (rather than end them), and control how the violence is applied (rather than eliminate it).

-----

If what you are doing TRULY IS science-fiction, I suggest you write a few sci-fi novels or screenplays... rather than worry about joining the predators in their games.

-----

You say...

Anyway, we can agree to disagree on the theory, and in practice none of it matters anyway. The vast majority of people are not going to pay any attention to anything we are discussing, until it was already way too late to do anything about it then ... after which things get way too unpredictable to guess about ... I merely indulge in attempting to think more consistently about these problems.

Well, I am a consistent individualist, so if you want to waste your time, effort, talents, expertise and resources on what you yourself agree "is too late to do anything about... and after which gets way to unpredictable to guess about"... that is your decision.

However, the obvious, logical, rational, sensible choice if you really DO believe what you say is to then turn to what you CAN do something about... which is small-scale systems that are as disconnected from the dominant system as possible, and may actually survive, prosper and flourish after the dominant system self-destructs (or even before, if we can get out of this freaking gravity well).

Wed, 05/14/2014 - 23:41 | 4761532 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

I like the science fiction dream of being able to live outside of the Earth, with the view that there are trillions of times more resources in the the Solar System than in the planet Earth. However, any such phenomenon would merely recreate in a much more intense way that problems which we already have on planet Earth, since it is ALREADY Spaceship Earth.

Just try to imagine a totally human made and maintained ecology in space, which would necessarily be a combined human, industrial and natural ecology! Everything necessary to live in another Spaceship, is what is already necessary to make Spaceship Earth survive.

Another Spaceship, the same as Spaceship Earth, already would have all the same old chronic political problems. We would not escape from the problems of ruling classes and rulers, and attempting to integrate energy systems, in which money would be measurement backed by murder. Those would all only be way more concentrated into another Spaceship, which was artificially made, rather than inherited as a living whole, as we did Spaceship Earth.

In my view, honestann, you have bunch of pleasant ways of thinking, which suit you, and correspond to your chosen way of life. On the other hand, I tend to think I am horribly sane, and attempt to confront head-on the criminal insanity that currently dominates Spaceship Earth, and is destroying it. My irrational hope is that as things get worse, faster, more people will start thinking in more radical ways. That is what I have been working on for several decades, and continue to work upon, because it has the greatest sense of intellectual integrity that satisfies me the most.

I find your failure to see the paradoxes with respect to robbing the robbers, or killing the killers, makes your views too inconsistent to be generally applicable. You keep on wanting some of the basic fundamental dichotomies, and related impossible ideals, which I will never agree are valid. More importantly, your view that governments are nothing but legal fictions does not change that they exist. I repeat, social organization embody more energy in their organization than in the separated parts.

An organized army is more than just a gang of disorganized criminals with weapons. The core of militarism is social organization. That was what made fighting forces. That mobilized energy was the source of the current state systems. Warfare was the oldest and best developed social science, which was the father of civilization. Social organizations do have a power which is greater than individuals, because organized gangs are greater than disorganized gangs. Every organization is based on organized lies, operating robberies. It matters how those are organized. There is an energy in that organization. Countries, churches, and corporations, are all forms of human organization, which gain from specialized labour, and a bunch of other considerations, which are real, and demonstrated when they compete with each other.

Just because they are fundamentally organized lies, operating robberies, does not mean that there is nothing there. They DO have an energy in their organization, which IS greater than the sum of their separate parts, and that counts, as much as the difference between the living and the dead. Indeed, the most obvious example is the way that a living human being is different from a corpse! The same principle applies to human organizations, which do have a life of their own. Just because you see that they are based on legalized lies, or legal fictions, you seem to feel justified to diminishing them to nothing. I do not agree.

Quite the contrary, my theoretical goal is that enough people go through enough of paradigm shift in the ways that they perceive politics so that they start to agree with me that governments are forms of organized crime, and they agree to work together to organize better crime. My theoretical goal is to become the government. In practice, I can not imagine that happening, because the vast majority of people are Zombie Sheeple, who do not understand anything I am saying, and do not want to understand. ((I MIGHT have better luck with the ruling classes, than with those they rule over, but that too is just another political day dream.))

What I try to do is what I consider harder political science fiction, which tries to steer away from the softer kinds of political fantasies. That is what I meant by trying to tack into the winds of the on-coming social storms. You recommend steering as far from the storms as possible. I tend to be resigned to attempting to sail through them. I am in favour of a world government, just not the one that the banksters were planning, but rather one which would be pushed passed where they may have otherwise stopped.

I want an intellectual scientific revolution, that would apply to politics generally, and especially to militarism and the monetary system. That may well, and indeed, quite probably, will not happen within my life time in any significant way. But nevertheless, that is what I have been working towards for several decades, and I continue to do so at the present time, despite that, the more I learned about real politics, the worse it got ... so that I greatly doubt that enough civilization will be able to survive enough to make my kind of political science fiction ever become science facts.

However, that is what I have decided to do, and continue trying to do. You are free to make your own choice, and you did. What you believe enables you to run your life the way you do, while what I believe has me operating my life the way that I choose to do. I run a fringe political party, promoting the Fringe Cubed positions across the board of political topics. I have been doing similar things for several decades,`Party Leader "Biography," and I expect I will continue until I am no longer able to do so ...

P.S.

The column width of our cross-replies is now getting too small to be able to easily read ... Anyway, I see this is not going anywhere forward, but rather around in the same circles ???

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 02:33 | 4765557 honestann
honestann's picture

So many mistakes...

So little time...

No, life in space is very different than life on earth.  One can take so many perspectives on this issue, I hardly know where to start.  Let's start here.  In space, you live in your own toilet.  What do I mean by that?  What I mean is, one earth, you can chuck your crap in a hole and let the enormous volume and mass and energy and chemical processing that occurs on such an enormous body... let you ignore the consequences of a great deal of your actions.  This is just one of many reasons predators can gain such strongholds.

But the point I am making here is the following.  In a space habitat, every last atom that is part of the consequences of your actions... you are stuck with, and must deal with, and you are exposed to those consequences.

The environment of a planet like earth is astronomically forgiving in so many ways, you clearly have not thought about (and have no important reason to think about since you intend to live and die entirely on earth).

However, life in space has certain very forgiving aspects too... beyond the very important aspect that I have mentioned - avoidance of human predators and the consequences of not avoiding them.

Just to give one silly (but important) example: no mosquitoes, no insects, no snakes, no spiders, no nasty critters.  The only critters we will have are those we consider worthwhile (I vote for "chickens").  And the same goes for plants (no poison oak, but a nice, healthy variety of veggies, fruits, nuts, seeds, and maybe even some fungus (mushrooms).

Yes, humans should adopt an attitude closer to the attitude required for humans who live in spacecraft and space habitats.  The ecology of earth would be much nicer (at least in those places the ecology sucks now).

-----

You accuse me of adopting pleasant fantasies.  Yeah, right.  Tell me another lie.  How many times have I said "humans are finished"?  Yeah, what a convenient fantasy... NOT.  And when I do talk about the possibility that some infinitesimal number of humans might get off this planet and establish viable long-term existence... I say our chances are 50-50 at best.

So, right.  I have such an fairy-tale optimistic view.  Sheesh!

-----

I do agree with you that one slightly possible way mankind could escape the disaster he deserves is for things to go very bad, very fast, and thereby spur enough humans to kill off the current crop of predators-that-be (and their hired thugs).  I can imagine scenarios in which this could possibly happen.

However, not much chance.  You know why?  Not because the chance is so small that it isn't worth paying attention to, but because humans are so utterly brainwashed and so fundamentally insane, that they'd support one or several of the many new packs of predators who attempt to take over whatever remains.

Unless humans WAKE UP, and STOP ACCEPTING FICTIONS, they are doomed.  And humans WILL NOT wake up, and will not stop accepting fictions, so mankind is finished, even if he does pass through a few crash and burn cycles along the way.

-----

My views are 100% consistent.  You accuse me of nonsense.  Point out ONE idea that I claim or promote that is inconsistent.  ONE.  But make absolutely certain you clearly demonstrate HOW and WHY my statement ACTUALLY IS inconsistent.

From the time I was very young (single digits), I've been designing and implementing extremely complex systems in which ONE ERROR in one transistor, one gate, or software statement or one bit of data means THE ENTIRETY WILL NOT WORK.

In other words, don't try to school me in "consistency versus inconsistency" unless you can actually point to an example, and show HOW and WHY it is in fact inconsistent.  Good luck with that.

-----

Your statements about "social organization" are a bunch of nonsense, and an absolute, complete, disingenuous red herring.  I talk ALL THE TIME about ways INDIVIDUALS can COLLABORATE for mutual advantage.  So this great power of "social organization" you mention is PURE NONSENSE... in that there is ZERO necessary distinction between YOUR STYLE of "social organization" and MY STYLE of "individualist organization" EXCEPT... yours involves INVOLUNTARY FORCE and mine is VOLUNTARY INTERACTION.

And guess what?  Voluntary interaction is PRODUCTIVE, for otherwise the individuals would not agree to the interaction.  Whereas your "social organization" necessarily involves either ENDLESS FIGHTING AND DESTRUCTION... or... UTTER, COMPLETE, TOTAL OVERT SLAVERY (to assure everyone takes actions that further the goals chosen by the "elites in charge").

So there you go.  You make blatantly false accusations... which contain the OPPOSITE of what you claim.  Your "social organizations" are DESTRUCTIVE and MALEVOLENT while my "voluntary interactions" are PRODUCTIVE and BENEVOLENT.

You see, your point that "organized action" can be more efficient than "chaotic action" IS A FACT.  But where you go with that one "grain of truth" is... completely insane.  Of course "organized predators" are more efficiently destructive than disorganized predators.  And of course "organized producers" are more efficiently productive than disorganized producers (just one of those ways is called "division of labor").

And these are FACTs you cannot escape.

And again: when a few individuals give their cooperative efforts a name... nothing pops into existence, and nothing necessarily works differently or better than if they do not assign themselves a name.  However, to assign a name and promote that name as something real to the masses DOES tend to confuse those masses, and make more of them accept your "organized system of lies and violence".  Your "sith mind tricks" don't work on me, however.

Oh, I understand what a paradox is, but apparently you do not understand what a blatant contradictions are.

Oh, and by the way, not every "organization" of humans is necessarily, by some fundamental and magical characteristic of reality, necessarily a "system of lies" (organized or otherwise) or "organized violence" (organized or otherwise).  When you simply ASSERT such nonsense... everything that follows is inherently suspect, self-refuting, or self-contradicting.

In other words (and incidentally, by your own admission and formulation), all of your assertions and claims are a "system of organized lies and violence".  Which means, perhaps you should consider suicide to partially solve the problems you mention.

-----

You do NOT want an intellectual scientific revolution, because what you describe as "intellect" is a form of extreme insanity (probably based upon some good intentions, but also a willingness to become the same kind of predator you now lobby against).  If you ever WERE to "become a fictional government", and you attempt to dominate me in any way whatsoever, you better be wearing several dozen layers of kevlar.  Actually, you better move to a deep, well hidden bunker many meters beneath the moon surface and hold all personal meetings via 3D hologram.

Your dream will never happen in ANY number of lifetimes, for reasons I have outlined a great many times.  For you to attempt to fight the more aggressive predators is like you fighting a SWAT team with a singshot.  You lose.

But... have fun wasting your life.  I'd rather work on something with a low probability of success than something with ZERO chance of success.  But you choose for yourself, as you obviously have, and will obviously continue to waste the rest of the time you have in this universe.

-----

One final comment.  To waste "the rest of ones life" just because one has made a considerable investment of time, effort and resources in something that ultimately proves futile... is exactly what it is --- a waste of what remains of a human life.  What a waste.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 03:08 | 4765577 autonomos
autonomos's picture

hi everyone :)

 

"If you honestly believe the difference between self-defense and murder is some minor technicality or "fine point"... you really are completely out to lunch, and you need help! "

Well... if someone comes in your backyard, and you feel threatened and you kill him. Was that self-defense?

You may come up with many criteria, claiming those criteria are absolute (and not relative)...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 03:42 | 4765601 honestann
honestann's picture

Well, since I don't believe "land can be owned" in the real sense (but agree with the general notion of "land stewardship"), just "being somewhere" is not harming me, and therefore is no reason for me to harm someone.

To kill someone in self-defense REQUIRES they are in the process of trying to harm you or your friends or family or property... or have already done so.

I understand it is easy to get confused by fraudulant "laws" and bogus concepts like "land ownership", because they are so common in daily life.  These issues can only be properly understood in the context of a COMPLETE understanding of reality, consciousness and the nature of man (both producer and predator).

Anyone who talks about self-defense without harm (being attempted or already completed) is like the endless predators-that-be who advocate "crimes" without victims: they are liars.

Sat, 05/17/2014 - 04:45 | 4768846 autonomos
autonomos's picture

ok thanks :)

Wed, 05/14/2014 - 00:56 | 4757887 damicol
damicol's picture

THIS CANNOT WORK for many reasons, including those mentioned above.  Sadly, only a minuscule number of individualists ever even consider an individualist solution like "move to a semi-frontier and live a largely self-sufficient existence that is [mostly] out of sight, out of mind from predator view and interference".  Though this requires at least [roughly] $300K to $500K personal savings to implement in a form that most westerners would accept, such endeavors are quite practical for tiny-scale collaborative efforts of 2 to 8 like-minded individualists/couples/families.

 

I have to take issue on that as I did that on very very substantially less than that in 2001 ans have built a business now helping others especially SMEs to escape bureaucracy by moving part of thier operations off shore.

I could show how any individual could effect that change and do a total escape with similar living standards or better for less than $50,000

Wed, 05/14/2014 - 03:57 | 4758044 honestann
honestann's picture

Well, I did say "in a form that most westerners would accept" (which you kept in your quote, which was very honest and honorable of you).

I didn't say much about what that includes, but that is meant to include:

 - dwelling (could be a cheap RV or mobile home)
 - electricity (solar-panels or wind-turbine system)
 - sewage system (discard your pee and poo)
 - water (somehow)

In other words... what I was talking about puts you in a position to live ALMOST without subsequent expenses of any kind (permanent self-sufficiency).  I'm not sure if that is what you mean by $50,000... but maybe it is.

Of course, the characteristics of the location chosen can alter the calculation very much!  If you happen to live next to a fast-flowing source of clean water... you can solve the water and power part much cheaper (drink the water, and adopt hydroelectric).  As for the dwelling... it is possible to buy complete tiny prefab homes for $15,000 from China (about 50% of that is shipping costs).

Nonetheless, I and lots of others here would love to hear you elaborate on what your cost estimate includes, and any other features of the technique you advocate.  Like you, I suggest people live outside the USSA (!!!definitely!!!), especially if they are "citizens" of the USSA.

More generally, the most important tip is... never live where you are considered a "citizen" [or an official "permanent resident" in most locations].  All predators-DBA-governments consider their "citizens" as slaves... and treat them accordingly.  But many predators-DBA-government consider non-citizens (foreigners) something like "welcome guests who are probably spending outside money into their economy"... and treat them accordingly (as in much better treatment).  The "downside" can be very tiny... you may have to walk or drive or bicycle across the border for lunch once every 6 or 12 months to say totally within the rules (though many places don't really care if you cause no trouble and ask for no government services).  Of course, no matter WHERE you live, if you operate a business... a "cash" business is best (private, under-the-radar, off-the-books, and no need to get "worker visas").  Otherwise get a trusted partner (or yourself) to set up a tiny biz somewhere like Panama, and make sure your local biz has to pay enough to the remote biz so it "earns no profit".

Well, those are my easiest and most fundamental tips.  But I'm not trying to make money selling tips, so I offer my best advice for free.  Maybe you want to keep some of your best ideas unsaid here so you can charge people for those "secrets", but any general description and tips you can give here in reply will be very appreciated by me and others.  At the very least, tell us in detail what that $50K life includes.

PS:  As far as I'm concerned, if someone lives in ANY western (or large population) country, by far the most important step is to get YOURSELF out of the country, not just [part] of your business!

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 18:58 | 4756865 spooz
spooz's picture

Except that most people on food stamps would rather have a good job that pays a living wage instead of a meager food allowance and second rate Medicaid health care, if they are lucky enough to live in a state that covers them.  Disenfranchised independent voters have little choice but to throw their vote away when it comes to corporate-whore-candidate #1 v corporate-whore-candidate#2. Many don't bother voting.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 19:18 | 4756950 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

When you have 48 percent of the taxpayers supporting 52 percent the living wage jobs are gone forever. That is why we do not have a chance in hell. 

My family is a bunch of welfare lazy fucks who do not want it any other way. A job gets in the way of smoking weed and doing meth. So I do not agree that most want a job and not the bennies.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 21:18 | 4757360 spooz
spooz's picture

I don't know any lazy fucks who sit around smoking weed and doing meth.  But then again, my family has been solidly middle class for a few generations.  Its only now that my kids and their friends are struggling to find work that has any future.  Most are so desperate to keep from having a gap in their employment record that they hop from one dead end service job to another.  None of which pay a living wage or allow them to consider the possibility of buying a home or starting a family.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 22:06 | 4757506 JMT
JMT's picture

Sure, those 'dead end service jobs' are going to look good on their Resumes you think?? Of course let me tell you a little secret PLENTY of "solidly middle class" people are hooked on prescription drugs (aka 'controlled substances') not to mention the near heroin epidemic in many suburbs and even METH & Weed are pretty expensive these days...

They can't 'buy a home' or start a family?? You think those are the most important things in life? I would rather rent a nice home or nice apartment in a decent (middle to upper class area) than own the 'worst home in the nicest area' like you are supposed to do and starting a family?? its hard as a single person to budget $6,000 a month for expenses now - I don't have a wife, child, parent or even pet to support. 

I have to say that one has to look at themselves & attitude they are portraying both to employers and on their Resume. Many hiring managers aren't the bleeding heart lets all get together and sing kumbuya types you see on CNN & MSNBC/

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 22:36 | 4757581 spooz
spooz's picture

It used to be that buying a home and starting a family were goals for most young people.  Having to move your stuff from place to place as dickhead landlords raise the already too high rents gets old, and setting down roots with a family used to be something to reach for.  

And all the good attitude in the world isn't going to create the kind of jobs that support a healthy middle class.  Hiring managers aren't interested in training entry level employees anymore, and who the hell watches CNN and MSNBC?  You are living in some alternate universe that exists in your own little mind.

As far as substance abuse goes, it may have something to do with people who have little to hope for using drugs to self medicate their depression.  Lucky for me, a stable family structure has protected those I love from that.  I'm sorry you have been so exposed to life's dirty underbelly.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 20:19 | 4757165 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Yeah. Sure. They want a good job, but they don't want to work, or they don't want to start at the bottom and work their way up because they're "special" and "important" like momma told 'em all their lives.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 21:15 | 4757349 spooz
spooz's picture

In case you didn't notice, the labor market is still 7 million jobs short since the recession supposedly ended. Young workers are particularly hard hit, with 14.5% unemployment for those under 25. For college graduates, unemployment is 8.5% and underemployment 16.8%. For high school graduates, unemployment is 22.5% and underemployment 41.5%.  Job quality is getting worse, as less employers offer benefits.  Trying to get yourself into the somewhat better employment situation with a college degree has become a heavy burden with the cost of college skyrocketing, making loans neccesary for most.

And most of the jobs being created are low wage service jobs with little room for working your way up.  But pay no attention to reality.  Its so comfy being misinformed.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/the-growth-of-colleg...

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 19:48 | 4757065 R-502
R-502's picture

Anybody who works in supermarkets calls the first of the month Mother's Day and I don't mean May 11th. :P

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 20:20 | 4757172 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Mother's day is when you find all the welfare mothers in the bar trolling for a new baby daddy.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 20:26 | 4757194 SubjectivObject
SubjectivObject's picture

Their eFking sountrak sucks.

Just talk to me, not my animals emotions.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 21:47 | 4757456 franciscopendergrass
franciscopendergrass's picture

I wonder if weather affects EBT usage just like how weather affects the bottom line of companies, government reports and the Fed.  /sarc off

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 22:00 | 4757491 JMT
JMT's picture

How much of this is due to fraud and working under the table for cash as well as small business owners who keep two sets of books. the ones that they report to the IRS have all the workers at or near minimum wage so the employer can pay less in payroll taxes & quarterly unemployment taxes... Living in NYC for close to 33 years I have seen all of this, pretty much many immigrants who don't speak english whip out the WIC checks and others who 'split' tender at supermarkets like Pathmark with hundreds of dollars worth or groceries.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 23:06 | 4757695 D-Fens
D-Fens's picture

My advice to people is the following:

1)  Continue to work if you want to avoid prison or the underworld, but otherwise mostly drop out of most things and stop consuming mindless shit

2)  Stop work and get on disability/welfare.

 

Only those two things, in combination, can help to bring about the end of this terminal but mechanically ventilated system.  No revolution is requires, it will die naturally.

 

Otherwise, if you work hard and consumer hard, you are perpetuating your own slavery.

Tue, 05/13/2014 - 23:13 | 4757704 JR
JR's picture

The battle against the oligarchs, who are imposing wealth transfer on America’s middle class in order to destroy the competition for profits and power via socialism, some say is a battle that can’t be won. For they appear to grow stronger and more dominant every day as the middle and upper middle-classes dwindle while the welfare and oligarch rolls burgeon with the largesse.

This line of reasoning has two problems. One, it doesn’t get us anywhere, and two, it’s not true.

Our fight is worth fighting because the hold of the tyrants on our liberty is a hold that can be broken. Their programs are unbelievably excessive; their reach is beyond what they can hold, and their system of socialism and redistribution, riddled with corruption and misallocation, is headed for the wall, whether or not the middle class rises up to stop it. Just as it did in the Soviet Union.

We should take a page from Jim Quinn's book, one man who was making such a difference that the oligarchs tried to shut down The Burning Platform, Google forcing his advertising partners to terminate, and then an excessive attack on his website. His words and his spirit should give us all the strength to fight with him.

Wrote Jim after losing a “battle against an enemy that was pounding the site with 48.4 million hits over a 24 hour period” that began May 1:

By Sunday night I was ready to pull the plug on the site and give up…

“I felt like the townsfolk in one of Clint Eastwood’s Spaghetti westerns who are being beaten, abused and mistreated by the bad guys. And then The Man With No Name arrives in town and takes on the evil doers with his six shooter. …    On Tuesday he went to battle against an enemy that was pounding the site with 48.4 million hits over a 24 hour period… By Wednesday evening the man With No Name had vanquished the bad guys...”

And the result: On May 8, Quinn was back on board with a determination to "tear down the existing establishment at every opportunity."

I learned that TBP is having an impact. This was not an attack carried out by some pimply teenager in the Ukraine. It was an all-out assault on the truth. It was a blatant attempt at censorship. The attacker was attempting to put my website out of commission for good. They do not like what I have to say. They are worried that too many people will start paying attention to what is really happening in this country….

“The oligarchs will not go down without a fight. This past week was the opening volley in this battle for liberty. I fear it will get much worse than a cyber-attack on my website. The mass surveillance of all Americans, military training exercises in American cities, and the trashing of the 4th Amendment are all warning signals not being heeded by the general population.

“The coming years will require fortitude, courage to stand up to the establishment, sacrifice, and a will to create a better tomorrow for our children and grandchildren. I will keep fighting until some government thugs kick in my front door and haul me off to some FEMA camp. In the meantime, I’m proud to be associated with all the TBP contributors, commenters, and readers. We have a choice between tyranny and liberty. I choose liberty.”

http://www.theburningplatform.com/2014/05/08/i-might-be-paranoid-but-that-doesnt-mean-theyre-not-out-to-get-me/

Many TBP fans came to offer Quinn uplifting and financial support. Adds Quinn: “Both David Stockman and Jim Kunstler offered help to get the site back up. I owe a special debt of gratitude to Mike Krieger. I’d also like to thank Thinker and RE for keeping people up to date on my plight. A few websites even ran my Under Attack page. Special thanks to Howe Street, Before It’s News, and Steve Quayle

Wed, 05/14/2014 - 00:42 | 4757869 damicol
damicol's picture

A small thriving family grocery store near me that refuses SNAP  has all the family members buying cards at 50% and loading the food at Walmart stores and dropping it at the back of the store every night, and the shelves get filled.

A discount over Walmart guarantees that the locals without cards get cheaper groceryies locally and the store is making a fortune with those margins

 

Wed, 05/14/2014 - 02:04 | 4757979 kurt
kurt's picture

The food is to keep us from revolting. The crime occurred long ago. Nafta. Now they're putting through, secretly, TPP, The Trans Pacific Partnership. The corporations have taken over. Internationalization is the main problem and the continued DEGRADATION of the former middle class. "Zombies" are a part of that system. After degredation comes DEHUMANIZATION. 

After the food programs end... what will you look like to a seasoned former soldier become police, heavily armed. Go three days without food, go homeless, sleep under a bridge, receive an injury along the way. What will you look like to the armed guard at Homeland Walmerica?

A Zombie, an easy to shoot zombie. buh bye.

 

Wed, 05/14/2014 - 05:58 | 4758107 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

 The article has a faulty premise (prejudice)  that only a

corrupt government will provide for the unemployed and destitute,

or pay wages for government workers.

Actually, it is the other way round.

And many government workers, seeing the corruption first hand,

oppose corruption as much or more than the many "privatized", TBTF, and "defense" industry workers.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!