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Fact Or Fiction: Should We Raise Taxes On The Rich To Redistribute Wealth?

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Fact...or Fiction...



Source: The Onion


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Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:15 | 4764527 Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

Many on here would not even take this as satire. Sad, but true.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:30 | 4764581 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Piss poor attempt at satire.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:52 | 4764667 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

Multinational and S&P500 companies earnings at ATHs, paying record low taxes, billionaires, millionaires and speculators paying less taxes than the working poor, income by labour is higher taxed than speculation?

ZH libertarians love it and want moaaar of it! Taxes are evil!

Sheeple on the left and sheeple on the right. Sheeples everywhere while the 1% is laughing.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 20:02 | 4764694 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

You just don't get it do you? They won't raise taxes on the rich. They will raise taxes on the middle class and the rich's effective tax rate won't change. Any attempt to tax corporations will just be passed through to you and me in the form if higher costs.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 20:37 | 4764788 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

To restate my argument from a few posts back, the only way I support higher taxes is if it's on dividends and high earners and the $ goes DIRECTLY to a subsidy for low income earners.  Capital has rigged the game long enough while the working class has been robbed.  This needs to be rectified one way or the other.  Unfortunately these billionaire cunts are so out of touch they think that working 40 hours a week shouldn't get you decent food or shelter.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 20:46 | 4764809 Slave
Slave's picture

Like how those FICA taxes make it to where they're supposed to go?

Have you learned anything from this website?

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 20:51 | 4764833 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

Why raise taxes when the Fed is injecting close to a trillion dollars a year into our system?...why not just make sure the money bypasses Wall Street and gets to where it can do some good for more than just the HFT guys?  Jesus, who cares about how rich people are?  No one gives a shit when everyone has jobs and is making money.  Its only when we have a neophyte imbecile for president and a special needs administration that fuck things up so bad that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and the burned for everything is on the backs of the middle class:  I love higher healthcare premiums, deductibles & perscription costs, I love inflation at the supermarket...fuck this blows.  Let's vote for someone who demands contribution not someone who buys votes by taking from a minorty and giving the spoils to a majority.   Arrrrggghhhh!


People would not be bitching if there were jobs and opportunity!

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 21:09 | 4764891 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

1. The Fed isn't injecting anything in the system - all money is debt BY DEFINITION.


The Fed is taking (way overvalued) assets from the economy and replacing them with cash.  WHEN THE LOSS IS FINALLY RECOGNIZED, **THE AMERICAN PUBLIC WILL BE TOLD THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR THE LOSSES**.


Yeah, basically, and this is nothing new.

“In our time, the curse is monetary illiteracy, just as inability to read plain print was the curse of earlier centuries.”
? Ezra Pound


They aren't dumb, but people who think they are have no idea what they don't know.

Will a fox stop eating the hens once the hens have opened the door to the hen house?  Expecting the fox to treat the hens well is the intellectual equivalent of asking the Fed not to eat up Muppets, financially speaking.

Even a baby knows to cry when his/her candy is stolen - the average Muppet isn't even that smart.


Come on, people, WAKE UP!

It is all fraud.  It is all a con.  The table is tilted.













Thu, 05/15/2014 - 22:00 | 4764953 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture


The satanic forces managed to make the stupid mass believe it was clever and intelligent and it began to overthrow their leaders. That's the trick with "democracy". But never in history anywhere a democracy as a rulership of the people existed! It always was the rulership of money, a plutocracy.

And once the sheeple turned against their leaders, they are without any protection and are sunken deeper and deeper into the satanic NWO, while in their stupidity they demand more and more individual "freedom" - while there is so much individual freedom already, that girls don't know anymore what women are and boys don't know what men are. They want moar of the poison.

The problem is the blindness of the masses and that they do not recognize how stupid, uneducated and incapable they are and that they either will find leaders and unite behind them in this WAR of the most clever and evil individuals and families, or we, our families or our children and grandchildren will end totally enslaved by following the lowest instincts of greed, amusement and sexuality: total individual freedom.


But do the sheeple recognize that there is a war going on? No, they are even to stupid to recognize even that! And they don't even care! Because the refrigerator is well filled and the amusement industry entertains them and they believe, life was only for joy and happiness - while a total war is being fought for the global enslavement under the One World government.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 22:20 | 4765095 StateofFraud
StateofFraud's picture

I would say stop feeding the beast, but it's too late. Only choice now is to wait until it collapses since the muppets have discovered they can pick the pockets of the producers to pay for the lifestyle described above. And -- they will continue to do so until there's not a scratch left, followed then with eating one another. Go read the Flanders-Wallonia article elsewhere on ZH. My goodness, what a crime to confuse "freedom" with government sponsored hedonism.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 22:53 | 4765202 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

I would encourage anyone with eyes to see to simply do the right thing.

This system is probably more about sucking your soul than even your economic power.

It thrives because so few are capable of caring enough to "do the right thing."

These criminals win when we quit trying to resist them and exposing them.

The people who can't be bothered to investigate or are simply intellectually unequipped to challenge their oligarch programming, well, that's their responsibility.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 23:04 | 4765187 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

Socrates taught me the power of words, so I try to use them to increase knowledge.

I believe a better term for it is The Money Power World Order.  Their chief historian explained what it represents, at least at a superficial level:

"In addition to these pragmatic goals, the powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences. The apex of the system was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basle, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations."
~Carroll Qugley, Tragedy and Hope

BTW, the tyrannical surveillance state was ALWAYS THE PLAN.

“The technotronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen and maintain up-to-date complete files containing even the most personal information about the citizen. These files will be subject to instantaneous retrieval by the authorities. ”
? Zbigniew Brzezinski, Between Two Ages: America's Role in the Technetronic Era

BTW, that was written in the 1960s by the same guy who started the Mujahadeen, which morphed into al Qaeda, which was used as the pretext to create the tyrannical surveillance state he wrote would be in place.




As for Obama...  he was predicted, too...

“In the technotronic society the trend would seem to be towards the aggregation of the individual support of millions of uncoordinated citizens, easily within the reach of magnetic and attractive personalities exploiting the latest communications techniques to manipulate emotions and control reason.”
? Zbigniew Brzezinski, Between Two Ages: America's Role in the Technetronic Era

Manipulate and control - words chose by a man who chooses his words carefully.

Magnetic personalities on media.  In schooling.  In politicians,  In religious leaders.

You get the idea.


PS - Speaking of words, ObamaCare is a deception.  Obama is a nobody pitch man, that's it.  The progenitors of this sick management / debt enslavement system are well above their teleprompter reader Obama.

While not perfect, I've settled on BanksterCare for now because Big Insurance is a corporate front for the mega banks.  Of course, THE MONEY POWER owns and controls the mega banks, so Money Power Care is more accurate, but it doesn't quite roll off the tongue as nicely.

Money Power World Order

Money Power money.

Money Power government.

Money Power schooling.

Money Power sick management systems (rejected by the Money Power itself, BTW - read Rockefeller Medicine)

Money Power religion.

Money Power war machine.

Money Power drug running.

Money Power drug money laundering.

Money Power terrorist financing.

Money Power false flag operations.

You get the idea.



The reason Rockefeller School doesn't bring this subject up is because they would be outing their own position of power (Rockefeller's representing the greater Money Power club).



Fri, 05/16/2014 - 08:06 | 4765809 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Two consecutive intelligent posts. Now, I wish to add something: a solution.

The elimination of all laws (not rules, one is binding and one is voluntary). It is law that gives currency power and value. You eliminate law and you eliminate currency debt. You eliminate assets valued in currency. Suddenly, the wealthy are not so wealthy.

You lose the abiiity to create crony corporate or any other corporate structure and enforce claims.

Taxes become voluntary contributions to local projects.

Licenses, fees and regulation disappear.

Elections disappear.

Entitlements disappear.

Money becomes what people will accept in trade. Social credit dominates the economy to provide liquidity.

Property is what you can control. Remember, ever person has an interest in controlling "their" property, it behooves them all to look out for each other.

Will there be violence? Yes. Is that different from now? No. It will probably be diminished appreciably.

What would be the greatest danger? People being convinced we could restart a new law system that would be "better". There would be many promises of how much better it would be.

Number one complaint: the rich will just hire thugs to take over. Answer: tough to be a thug when a community is pointing guns back at you.

You can complain about slavery all you want. Until you remove the means for its' maintenance as a social system, you will remain slaves. The legai systems of the US, Europe, Russia and China are massive constructs, based on the original one: Roman law. One of the largest slave states ever.

So, solution, how do we get rid of law? Stop obeying. Withdraw acceptance from the system. The Elites depend on the vast majority of the people to play by the rules. There is no plan Z for complete revolution by the total popuation or even mass minorities.


Fri, 05/16/2014 - 10:14 | 4766161 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture


if the masses are stupid, phlegmatic and disinterested, how can you suggest removing laws as solution? Show me a historic example where that worked.

Jeltsin in Russia did it. The result was the land was grabbed by the 1% and only a leader, Putin, with the will to power and fight these forces, could give the Russians their country back!


And another aspect you libertarians (totally) ignore: you project yourself onto the broad mass.

In which world are you living? Don't you know how people are? What do they care for? Do they read ZH? No, they are interested in sports, celebrities, movies and the more garbage, filth, crime, sex and primitiveness they contain, the more they like it! The mass gives a SHIT about what is important.


The 1% knows that. And therefore they feed the masses with what they want and fight the forces that are demanding self discipline for the mass.

Coudenhove-Kalergi "Practical Idealism". Already in 1924 he developed the plan for mass immigration into White countries, free love and sexualization, promoting promiscuity, feminism, while the 1% decides for free MARRIAGE! The flower power revolution and the 1968-revolution from the Frankfurt school: the Kalergi-plan in practice. Supported and sponsored by Warburg and Rothschild. They know what they do and they are incredibly intelligent and clever - and then you libertarians come and say: remove all restrictions and guidance for the stupid mass! Incredible.

They know, that that by removing all restrictions on the personal life of the individual they bring the broad mass down on animal level, while they stay extremely self disciplined and follow the traditional values.

You believe sheeple would become responsible beings one day? LOL! Look the great information and knowledge the internet, away one press of a button, made available! and how do they spend their time? Do they download the books for free? No they sit in front of the TV! Do they talk to each other? No, they sit in front of the TV!

That's your beloved mass, that surely one day will make democracy work?


Beings that care if they destroy the planet with their greed, while they support a monetary system based on exponential growth, well they don't even are interested in, where the money in their pockets comes from?! Are you an Alien that did not grow up here, that you are living in Alice's wonderland?

White sheeple don't even care if the biggest genocide in history is committed against their race, that their children are losing their countries. Being able to shop is all they are interested in!


So please stop spreading this poison, that the mass was capable to rule without leadership. This lie is DEADLY, because it supports the legacy hunters that have been lying to the stupid mass, that it was intelligent, wise and good.


And history is the best witness! The mass NEVER has been idealistic and history was always made by individuals, a tiny minority and leaders. The trick with democracy was, to make the stupid ones believe in their individual power and reject all authority. And you are caught in this lie.


You don't lack individual freedom. You lack a LEADER.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 11:44 | 4766724 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

One, the masses are not stupid, just well trained to be shortsighted. When you remove law, you remove the ability to train the masses in this manner.

Yeltsin did no such thing. The Russian state remained, with leaders, based on a more democratic model- see where that led? 

Now who is projecting? Television ratings by participation are at all time lows. Newspaper sales are catastrophic. People just have limited options- options limited by law and the State.

The .01% do know these things- so they you law and the State to force them on the people and they don't like competition. Your whole laundry list of evils were perpetrated by the people that use law and the State to enslave us. How does that change? By telling them to stop and be nice- you're solution in a nutshell. You cannot tell the Elites what to do. You cannot fight them on their battleground. Law and fractional reserve banking (debt enslavement) are their battleground.

I don't want democracy to work- it doesn't. We don't need democracy, we need liberty. Every process to install democracy provides a means to distort results. We need voluntaryism and yes, I think the people would not just "get it" but thrive under it.

I never intimated the loss of leadership, just leadership by local approval. Wise ones are quite capable of solving disputes and providing leadership within a community. We don't need leaders that rob us, enslave us and save e est for themselves.

You are the one spreading poison, a poison used for 5000 years to enslave and impoverish people. All government leads to a small minority ruling a vast majority for their own benefit. Bar none. Not one single instance where this does not develop. 

I need no leader and I do lack liberty. As a proponent of national socialism, you need to look past the successes and see the abuses and tyranny.Further, the potential for disaster once your better than average leader yields to the maniacal- as Goebbels attempted in the last days. Even Hitler saw through that.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 12:19 | 4766849 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

Sure you need more freedom! Maybe fucking a few children? Or marrying your sister? Since painting with feces is no longer an expression of freedom, how about copulating in front of children?

The power of the banks still too restricted? The possibilities to make money from filth way to restricted?


Again the simple question:

Where are the historic examples for your absurd claims?! Name the nations and cultures that flourished without strong leadership!

Contrary to this absurd claims many, many cultures and peoples were destroyed by the poison of Liberalism!


You are the one spreading poison, a poison used for 5000 years to enslave and impoverish people. All government leads to a small minority ruling a vast majority for their own benefit.

And this is also wrong and it is proven easily: all high cultures prove that wrong.

Good leadership does exist!

But what not exists is an intelligent, self disciplined mass, that could rule itself! You are an Anarchist and therefore an enemy of all culture. Because ANY culture is based on unwritten norms and laws by the community.


But you will witness anyway, where this sick liberalism will end. Then you will be able to enjoy your beloved Anarchy in reality.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 13:31 | 4767006 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

I have provided an example, but you fear to do so. Because once you name it, it can analyzed and the tyranny can no longer hide. I'm not sure what kind of society you live in or desire, from your comments, it must be pretty desperate. My community knows none of these things and the cities where this kind of behavior exists are ruled by your Statists.

I'm just fine with unwritten norms, I've made that clear, so don't attempt to fabricate lies, as is anarchy as well. 

You like to throw around slander, but you are surprisingly short on facts. Pretty typical of propaganda- to focus on emotons, rather than reason.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 12:12 | 4766822 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

ahhh, I see you're back with your Story.

You don't lack individual freedom. You lack a LEADER.

humanity has suffered under various, NUMEROUS, onerous Leaders, and still the exact same patterns surface into view(s), time and time-again.

and your Views on Leading are scattered about these threads, no thanks dude. if you want to lead, find some followers, have at it!

let folks organise into groups of Similars, peacefully.

oh wait? that won't work because the LEADERS will power in and rape 'n' pillage, so we need WARriors, and protections?

same as it ever was. . .

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 13:06 | 4766933 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

let folks organise into groups of Similars, peacefully.


And goups of similars lead to what? To racial and cultural segregation! But sadly that's already against making the maximum profit! So there already is the first door for the attack against the community: the individual freedom to make business.

And what happens when such a group is under attack? It needs to defend itself.

But how to defend without a command? That's not possible. Therefore a leader is necessary.

So this is the most natural result of your own suggestion.

And which one? Would you elect the biggest coward? The stupidest one? Or the one with the best character?

Ofcourse the one with the best character and the best leader. But what are the virtues of the ones with the best character? They CARE.

But if there is a basket of apples and you care for it, what do you do, if there is one fouling apple among them? Will you follow the Jewish liberal lie of being tolerant and leave it where it is, or will you remove the fouling apple before the other become bad, too?

So any leader that cares is not tolerant. There can be no tolerance for destruction of the community.

Like a good boss of a company will not tolerate employees that harm the company.

It's integral part of any good leadership, that it is NOT tolerant. It can't be! No business owner allows you to stay at home when you want. He has the AUTHORITY over you. You have AUTHORITY over your children. And if you love them, you will use it. If you hate them just allow them everything!

Every military commander knows that. Every sport-team knows that.

The whole human existance is nothing but an example of that principle! And even among social animals the same principles apply. Nature doesn't know equality. It's a lie of the 1%. People are not equal and therefore cannot lead out of themselfes as group. Only individuals can lead. Only the personality and character not the mass. Quality trumps quantity.

If the best lead, then things are developing in teh right direction. If the worst lead things are falling apart. But the mass is led always and never rules. It can't. It never has. It never will.

The sheeple can only decide which ones should lead. And sadly it chooses the legacy hunters and not the ones that tell the truth, that it needs leadership.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 13:41 | 4767041 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Prove racial and cultural segregation follows from the organizing of similars. Values are not race or culture specific. Most cultures and races share silmilar values.

Therefore, your whole premise falls apart, because your assumption is flawed. There is no need for defense, as similars are content to live within their society. The Amish seem to be doing just fine.

A community can defend itself and do it with a spectrum of leadership from those the group feels are wise. Called upon when needed. 

Thus, the best do lead, but not for themselves, but for the greater community and if that wisdom is not accepted? They can move aside for one who's voice more clearly articulates the vision of the community. One is free to enhance this vision or not.

Consequently, the danger of violence through social organization, that results in slavery, never develops. 


Mon, 05/19/2014 - 10:11 | 4773429 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

Prove racial and cultural segregation follows from the organizing of similars.

That ethnicities, people, nations and human races exist is the proove. Open your Bolshevik eyes.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 01:46 | 4765520 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture



Two things:


  1. The answer to you question about people being illiterate about the USD is, ummm, YES!  This is obvious.
  2. You're fucking angry, don't let that shit rule your emotions.  So shit is bad.  Plant a garden.  Learn to enjoy not being dependant on the system.  Go fishing, and eat the fish.  Go hunting and eat your kills.  If you have food, air, water and shelter while minimizing your dependence on state provided or regulated services, consider yourself good to go.  You aren't going to get rid of your dependence without going full medieval, but you can minimize them.

And yes, I get pissed at the ignorance from time to time, but it is becoming less and less often.  I know who I am, I know what I believe, and in this world of sworling bullhshit where you don't know what to believe, latch on to who you are, what you're principles are and live your life.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 02:13 | 4765546 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

El V, good advice.  Thanks.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 08:26 | 4765862 goneYonder
goneYonder's picture

Since the truth is being spoken here, I'd like to add something.

I have heard it said, "With freedom comes responsibility." This, to me, does not express the idea correctly. I have rephrased it to, "From responsibility comes freedom." or, a bit more poetically, if you will, "Responsibility is the mother of Freedom." 

Responsibility means doing what you should. Since you should do the right thing, and live according to the laws of Creation, responsibility means being an ethical and virtuous person.

The answer to our problems is for each person to humbly and quietly look within.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 10:06 | 4766289 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

Exactly. And since the mass never was and never will be responsible, it is clear, that it needs guidance.

And it's an understatement, "With freedom comes responsibility" was only wrongly expressed.

It is expressed EXACTLY as it is meant! It is a lie to make the stupid sheeple rebel against their good leaders.

"From responsibility comes freedom." or, a bit more poetically, if you will, "Responsibility is the mother of Freedom."

That's TRUE and CORRECT. It implies, that first there must be responsibility!

So it is the OPPOSITE of the liberal poison that destroys everything.


Why? Because responsibility does not grow on tress, but is teached, it means that freedom can only exist with leadership which teaches and enforces responsibility. Like all good parents practice it.

And if you hate your children? Just allow them everything. Liberalism.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 11:53 | 4766747 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Please show how the masses were never responsible: I suggest the Pennsylvannia colony from 1680 to 1690. No rulers were obeyed, local leaders solved social problems, no taxes were collected or laws produced. The people were happy, productive and responsible.

Your argument is chicken and egg. Without freedom, you have no opportunty to be responsible in a manner that does not hold coercion over your head. This is not true responsibility. As a virtue, it must evolve from desire to do what is right, not what is required.

You cannot learn responsibility without learning respect and respect requires tolerance. Tolerance is taught by example, not by law. 

You want to brand something and rail against it, when words are easily co-opted and then distorted to malign a principle. This is how propaganda operates.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 12:32 | 4766890 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

I suggest the Pennsylvannia colony from 1680 to 1690.

Even if we ignore all the background developments, you must be joking. You suggest a system that worked for 10 years? Where is it today?! And what did it achieve?

That's the REALITY of all you dreamers. Your examples are the best examples how easily you are infiltrated and overtaken, your examples are therefore nothing but examples of short lived failures. The world is not Disneyland. Your suggested system is not capable to withstand the forces out there that exploit the stupidity and lethargy of the mass!

You are promoting to send away the sheepdogs protecting the herd, although the foxes are out there.

You are promoting to let homosexuals teach children.

It always leads to the total destruction of all culture and traditional values. The USA is the best example, what the result of this insane lie, that children could protect themselfes, is.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 13:49 | 4767073 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

It was conquered by the military of the king. Otherwise, the society could have produced great works.

Hitler's reich? 12 years. Where is it now? What did it achieve? Millions of Germans dead? Destruction of industrial capacity? International scorn ?

I am promoting personal responsibility and community for the protection of each other from the wolves of the State. I could care less if homosexuals teach children. They have always taught children. Hoever, a community involved in their children's life are MORE aware than those that give their children over to the State and forget about them.

I find homeschooled children to be much better examples of culture and traditional values. 

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 23:07 | 4765242 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

RE:slave. That's the whole point.  I WOULDN'T support them if they weren't going to where they were legislated to. Which means I DON'T SUPPORT THEM because I know it won't happen.



Thu, 05/15/2014 - 20:57 | 4764852 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Call me skeptical, but I don't see much of any tax on wealth making it's way to the poor. The poor would get a few trinkets and the rest would be redirected to the collectors. The only solution to this mess is a major system reset. The misallocation of capital is too distorted for anything else.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 21:17 | 4764918 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

The Money Power and their close support class essentially don't pay any taxes.  In fact, they are net takers from society once bailouts are figured in.

They don't even pay property tax on their mansions and estates - because the Muppets are Muppets and WILL BE TREATED LIKE MUPPETS.


Read all the gory details here...

The Breakers...

the 70-room mansion has approximately 65,000 sq ft (6,000 m2) of living space. The home was constructed between 1893 and 1895 at a cost of more than $12 million (approximately $331 million in today's dollars adjusted for inflation).


However, the agreement with the Society allows the family to continue to live on the third floor, which is not open to the public. Countess Sylvia lived there part-time until her death on March 1, 1998. Gladys and Paul Szapary, Sylvia's children, continue to spend summers at the house.[5]

Although the mansion is owned by the Society, the original furnishings displayed throughout the house are still owned by the family.


And when society is fully busted, they will probably buy it all back for pennies on the dollar.

These people aren't stupid.







Thu, 05/15/2014 - 22:39 | 4765157 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

I can already see it...  the oligarchs sit on their behinds living is tax free castles while the starving masses sip their polluted liquid and comment to each other about stupid the oligarchy was to bankrupt everyone but themselves.

As long as we **feel** superior, WHO NEEDS ANYTHING ELSE, RIGHT?

Even if it is a total delusion, AS LONG AS WE FEEL IT, RIGHT?

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 22:59 | 4765218 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

What, you tell the masses they are stupid and the 1% is not? Then you do not act like the legacy hunters, that say the stupid ones, how intelligent and beautiful they were!

But you see, the reality is not apprecieted.

The sheeple prefer to believe the Bernanks were stupid and they were clever.

This trick of the Money Masters was probably the best of all: tell the sheeple how clever and intelligent and well educated they were, while in former times they were not, and make them believe they do not need leaders.

You are so beautiful, darling!

Your vote is important!

You are something special!


"Look, how that works! HAHAHA!"

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 02:11 | 4765544 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

The 0.0001% are the Big Bad and they are wicked smart, but not without blind spots.

The vast majority of the 1% are on the dinner plate as meat on the table...  NOT sitting at the table doing the eating.

They've been duped, too.

People can't admit they've been duped, so they will choose to go down with the ship (that was a quote when discussing this with someone who had about 10 years of school).

The Matrix has nothing on the bizarre world in which I find myself - the real world.

Of course, tThe Matrix was financed by the Money Power for a reason.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 23:26 | 4765295 Matt
Matt's picture

we're not stupid, we're disorganized.

The Occupy Movement was a failure because it had no organization, no leadership; each person had different motivations and goals. The Arab Spring worked because they had leaders and objectives.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 09:19 | 4766078 Pickleton
Pickleton's picture

The Occupy Povement was a failure because it was made up of the terminally stupid, mentally ill branch of militant leftists that control us.  They were too busy having their rape orgies, murdering people, shitting on cop cars and planning terrorist attacks to actually do anything productive.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 05:28 | 4765647 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Yer preachin' to the choir here, so no need to shout!

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 20:40 | 4764795 g speed
g speed's picture

taxes are a strawman  --get rid of gov't and you get rid of the oligarcy by default. 

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 21:22 | 4764928 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

g speed          taxes are a strawman  --get rid of gov't and you get rid of the oligarcy by default.


A very good idea, but unrealistic. That is an utopian idea. There will always be some form of government. And over time, it will always become corrupt. Rinse Repeat. History.

And by the way, even in a reset, the oligarchs will remain.

Tell me, if the entire system were to break down with riots in the streets, people starving, fema camps, shootings, don't you think the oligarchs will survive? They simply hop on their private jet will, us the commoners, feel the brunt of it all. The oligarchs have massive wealth, and thus mobility and freedom. You and I do not. I have to stay here with my family and defend what I have. They don't have to stay and can call there shots from anywhere, then come back when things settle down.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 21:31 | 4764963 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

"There will always be some form of government."

Until one day, there isn't.

You have an imagination, right? Use it. It isn't that difficult an idea to conceive.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 23:37 | 4765322 Matt
Matt's picture

A world without humans?

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 08:14 | 4765824 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

That massive wealth is dependent on a legal system to enforce their claims and protect them. Without that, they are just another guy in town. Remove the legal system (government) and you remove their ability to enslave the population.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 22:35 | 4765150 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

Get rid of the government?

And the mass teaches it's children itself? Isn't keeping the public uneducated in the best interest of the 1%?

Enjoy sleeping in the car, if you want to keep it, because there is no police? Watched too much romantic movies about the glorious Wild West?

Women better stay at home when it gets dark as crown of liberty?

And how great the "markets" would be without any burocratic and legislative restricions! Dimon and Blankfein would no longer need to conspire in the dark.

You seem to prefer the jungle of the Wild West over civilization and order.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 22:42 | 4765169 Slave
Slave's picture

There was no Wild West. Look at the stats. Crime is way higher right now.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 22:46 | 4765180 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

What stats without government?

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 22:52 | 4765196 Slave
Slave's picture

This really is very well documented. Any quick google search will lead you there. You obviously haven't ever thought that Hollywood would lie to you about the Wild West. So much for being against the "satanic forces" of our culture and against the lie.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 23:22 | 4765286 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

What do you want to tell me?

That the Wild West was not wild?

That the laws were respected without executive power?

Without courts?

That landlords didn't rule, but the law?

That workers were treated humanely?


You sit in front of your computer in your warm room with electricity and flowing warm clean water, which is only possible because of central authorities with executive power and you are dreaming about things you never experienced.

Want to know how it feels, when the government breaks down? Look at Jugoslavia. Or Iraq. Or just switch off the electricity for three days.

You seem to be one of those, that wanted the government shutdown when the debt ceiling was reached.

I know what would have been the best cure against this: shut it down. The police stays at home. The traffic lights are switched off. The court houses stay closed. Hospitals close. The garbage you produce is not moved away.

After the second day all shops would have been empty and plundered and after three days most people would have been cured from this idiotic ideology.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 23:36 | 4765317 Slave
Slave's picture

Still haven't researched the Wild West? Continue making an ass out of yourself...

I fully expect the scenario you describe to be forced upon me someday so I have prepared accordingly. It sounds to me like you need the .gov, statist. And you're the one who will be scared when that day comes.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 09:13 | 4766047 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

My computer was made by a private company and would cost much less without a government to tax and regulate the producer. I get clean water (no chlorine or flouride like yours) from my well. My room is warm because I have a wood stove. However, to think only a government can make and sell energy is just dumb. Who do you think operates the energy system? Private parties.

Why would a private company shut down electricity? It would become cheaper, minus the taxes.

The police stay at home, fine. I have insurance and a gun and neighbors. No raffic lights, you mean like when they go off and people have to take turns at intersections- sounds like a world calamity! No courts? To protect the Oligarchs,to fine us for tickets?  Mon Dieu! Why would a private hospital close? Garbage is hauled to a private dump by you or if you live in the country burnt. Oh, the horreur!

After the second day, the people would see why having a slave system sucks and liberty provides opportunity.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 09:29 | 4766131 Chump
Chump's picture

Here's some reading to get you started from a source that's probably right up your alley.


Thu, 05/15/2014 - 23:38 | 4765326 Matt
Matt's picture

"There was no Wild West. Look at the stats. Crime is way higher right now."

Only because killing non-white people was not a crime.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 22:49 | 4765185 Sticky Wicket
Sticky Wicket's picture

The things you pretend the government prevents are actually caused by the government.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 08:20 | 4765840 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Communities hired teachers. Read,"The Underground History of Education in The United States". It is an awakening in terms of education.

Why do we need police? They rarely make it to a scene of a crime, they do nothing to reverse the results. You would be better off with insurance to recover property.

About the time a woman sticks a derringer in your crotch, you might change your tune.

Markets have always existed, even without regulations. 

The wild west was never wild. Your failure to research their history is obvious. News stories were "enhanced" to create stories people would pay for. Standard historical bias 101.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 22:27 | 4765093 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

And you don't seem to get what I wrote. I didn't write what "they" do, I wrote that the ZH sheeple reject raising taxes even where it was necessary, for example when taxes on labor are higher than taxes on speculation or income from interest, or when real wages are shrinking while profits and bonuses are exploding from ATH to ATH.

You don't get it how for the right sheeple they play the "fear the taxes"-card, while for the left sheeple they play the class-warfare tax the rich-card.

But the game is taxing the productive ones, while protecting the parasites, and with the "taxes are evil"-card they keep the right sheeple away from demanding tax increases where they would be necessary. Oh, no, they are costing jobs! Sure, when Buffet or Soros would be forced to pay 80% taxes on their dividends and speculation profits, then this would cost jobs... :D

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 22:31 | 4765130 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Why is raising taxes necessary? So we can pay for a bloated invasive war mongering government? You just don't get it. No matter how much money is raised in taxes the parasitic government will demand more. The tax code and regulations are written by the rich for the rich. That will never change. We, meaning you, me, and the rest of the proles will always pay for the tax increases that you deem necessary.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 22:39 | 4765160 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

Why is raising taxes necessary?

Because of the exponential function of compound interest maybe?

Because parasitic speculation is less taxed than productive labor?

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 23:13 | 4765255 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

He makes a good point Dr. If you accept that income taxes are social engineering along with the fact that they aren't going away, then the only solution to one side gaming the system or exponential gain is to rebalance the system

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 23:16 | 4765269 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I disagree entirely. The tax system is written by the rich for the rich. The only correct solution is a systematic reset. Preferably peacefully, but by blood if necessary.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 00:01 | 4765363 Slave
Slave's picture

Isn't it fun how these articles about the rich always bring out the people wearing blue undershirts?

Same deal with the Russia articles bringing out the neocons...

Sacred partisan cows, or something.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 10:34 | 4766420 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

And after the reset the 1% suddenly is dumb and the stupid masses are intelligent, self disciplined, responsible and do no longer demand moar.

Does it get any more infantile?

And btw, you had the reset in the USA. And it became the biggest success and strongest base for the 1% that ever existed with the most dumbed down, rootless, cultureless, animal-like masses ever.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 13:39 | 4767033 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

It can't be done peacefully.  That's my point.  But it is possible to get a populist movement to redress SOME of the damage to the 99.9% by having the .01 actually pay some taxes or mor ethan 3-5%.  I don't buy that Uncle Warren even pays a 5% rate factoring in what income he hides.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 23:42 | 4765338 Slave
Slave's picture

And who do you think will end up rebalancing the system?

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 23:14 | 4765256 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

So you want to raise taxes in order to pay the war mongering bankers. Got it. Remind me again who the parasite is.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 11:03 | 4766466 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

No. I want a dictatorial leader for four years, non academic but educated, grounded, from within the midst of the people, from a farmer or worker family, declaring war against the establishment and their brainwashing with tolerance and liberalism, a leader who liquidates the parasites in Washington and everywhere, their criminal organizations, the parties, removes the alien grip on the media, fullfills the tribe's biggest wish and removes it to Israel, forbids debt based money, nationalises the banking system, forbids (compound) interest by death penalty and taxes the speculators at least as double as much as productive labor, disbands the NATO and brings all troops home.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 11:59 | 4766771 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Plato covers this in the section on the philosopher-king: it doesn't exist as the two actions are opposites." The Republic", kind of a political primer.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 22:32 | 4765135 StateofFraud
StateofFraud's picture

Keep squeezing that baloon, good buddy. Any, ANY, system that allows a taking from one person to give to another through coercive force will always, ALWAYS, eventually come under the control of an oligarcy that will embrace and extend the coercive principals to its own advantage. The perfect redistribution you set up today will require an adjustment tomorrow.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 22:45 | 4765171 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

Well, then explain to me, why did the USA become what it is, if Liberalism would have been the great cure? It's Liberalism became the base and carrier for the worst parasitism the planet has ever seen.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 08:30 | 4765882 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

The US became what it is because of law and the ability of the wealthy to manipulate and interpret it in a way that enslaves everyone. Taxes will not solve the problem. You must abolish law.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 10:50 | 4766482 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

Does Disneyworld become real if we all want it?

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 12:00 | 4765854 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Wow, you must be the first human to ever think of that? Tax the rich! What has been the historical result? Now, figure out why: the rich control the taxing mechanism. Don't let your ideology make you stupid.

If there are no taxes except voluntary ones (local) there are no income steams for the rich and influencial to control. No monies for war. No method to create debt. 

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 20:03 | 4764695 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Lower Capital gains taxes were meant to reward risk.  Wall Street and the Fed took risk out of their returns but still want the lower taxes.  How much risk is there in granting yourself 500,000 options at no cost?


Thu, 05/15/2014 - 20:32 | 4764772 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

I think a better example would be the Carried Interest exemption.  Taking your management income and having it taxed at capital gains rates, even though your personal money was never at risk.   Best of all worlds- play with OPM, have it taxed as if it was your money at risk.  What's not to like?

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 20:23 | 4764731 Slave
Slave's picture

More taxes for what? More welfare? More war? Why the fuck would I want more taxes? The 1% aren't fucking us....the .01% are....

Make one good decision in your life and you can become 1%. I guess that's evil?

Fuck over the entire world and you can become .01%. Raising taxes on the "rich" doesn't touch them.

Talk to any Democrat right now, "rich" to them has become anybody who has more money than they do. Go after the oligarchs. Anything else is bullshit.

EDIT: You're not against any lie. You're falling hook, line, and sinker for a tax increase on YOURSELF engineered by the people you want to go after.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 20:46 | 4764816 Occams_Chainsaw
Occams_Chainsaw's picture

You get it man.....few do.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 23:16 | 4765267 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

Oligarchs should be the target but no Politician is going to turn the gun on themselves...

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 21:15 | 4764908 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Againstthelie         Multinational and S&P500 companies earnings at ATHs, paying record low taxes, billionaires, millionaires and speculators paying less taxes than the working poor, income by labour is higher taxed than speculation?

ZH libertarians love it and want moaaar of it! Taxes are evil!


If you had an knowlegde of modern day liberians, you would understand that the reduction in taxes would be on the working.

The problem in our current system is we have different tax rates for different people. Your post is for the lie.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 10:53 | 4766500 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

No, the real problem is a regime where the extremely clever and intelligent 1% managed to tell the stupid mass how clever it was. Democracy.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:36 | 4764609 giorgioorwell
giorgioorwell's picture

Exactly, this one seems to have snuck through the ZH dare they talk about taking on the oligarchs using satire!

To the Koch Bros./Ayn Rand flavored ZH liberatarians this is sacrilige. 

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 20:45 | 4764716 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I noticed you mentioned the Koch bros. but no mention of George Soros or Warren Buffet. I guess some oligarchs are better than others and shouldn't be taken on. Typical hypocrite statist. At least we know your politics by the choice of oligarchs you're willing to serve.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:46 | 4764643 Robot Traders Mom
Robot Traders Mom's picture

When did the Onion start printing shit that could very well be true?

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 20:33 | 4764776 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

The Onion is still the same as it ever was.  The world came around to their point of view.  

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 03:34 | 4765596 Blythes Master
Blythes Master's picture

This is one of those threads that brings out the best shit throwing monkeys in the zoo!

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 10:10 | 4766313 Weisshaupt
Weisshaupt's picture

Thats because far too many rubes don't understand that "rich" would be defined in such  a way to include 100% of the middle class. Idiocracy isn't funny anymore either. 




Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:15 | 4764528 Alberich
Alberich's picture

Raise taxes on the rich to redistribute wealth to whom? The super-duper fantastically mega-rich? Because I think we're already doing that.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:24 | 4764558 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

From what I understand, the rich don't pay any taxes to raise.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:37 | 4764611 Timmay
Timmay's picture

Since the super "rich" don't fail anymore then there really is only one solution.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:15 | 4764529 Slave
Slave's picture

Gibs me dat.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:16 | 4764532 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Better yet, eliminate the (not) Federal (not) Reserve and the income tax.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:23 | 4764552 Slave
Slave's picture

But then they'd have to get rid of all the gibs! And we all know what would happen then...

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:17 | 4764538 Ariadne
Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:25 | 4764544 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Maybe we should stop pretending that we are one nation united under the same set of ideals. Just a thought.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:22 | 4764548 free_lunch
free_lunch's picture

Just find a nice euphemistic name for it and consider it done:

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:25 | 4764562 H. Perowne
H. Perowne's picture

I'd prefer to fast forward to the end with festooned lampposts and blood running in the gutters. This is moving at a glacial pace.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 22:34 | 4765142 newdoobie
newdoobie's picture

OMG will you just shut up and start killing people already?

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 18:11 | 4767906 H. Perowne
H. Perowne's picture

Settle down Beavis

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:27 | 4764567 Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

Eat the rich.

Nah, I'm sure they taste like shit.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 20:48 | 4764824 Occams_Chainsaw
Occams_Chainsaw's picture

They taste like chicken.....

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:27 | 4764568 QQQBall
QQQBall's picture

Isn't $5B to Ukraine with pop of 45MM like $100k each? Where's my $100k and the $200k for my chillrens?

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 20:15 | 4764733 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

No, just $100.00 per.  Still far too much, of course.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:28 | 4764576 I Write Code
I Write Code's picture

Let's tax the poor and redistribute poverty!

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:31 | 4764587 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Seems to be the

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:38 | 4764615 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

That's called inflation.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:30 | 4764582 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yes, of course, raise taxes. Its not like the central government won't spend all that extra taxation plus 30% more that they don't have.

They've never done that before ;-)

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:33 | 4764596 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture


If they can't print enough, how would they ever tax enough?

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 20:25 | 4764761 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Thats the nub of it, there can never be enough tax for its appetite. Doc nails it up top too, any tax on corporations is going to be passed on to the consumer.

So, we're right back to stripping the welfare mom of her "profits" after hitting the lottery.

None of this really matters anyways, there is no way seventeen trillion can ever be overcome. Think about what just a trillion is, then seventeen trillion.

They are insolvent, by any measure and the land is ours, not theirs ;-)

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 20:33 | 4764775 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

They are insolvent, by any measure and the land is ours, not theirs ;-)

Fuckin' A.

This whole conversationabout soverign debt this and derivatives that is all so much bullshit.  Let the whole thing crumble and liquidate the assets of the oligarchy to pay for the infrastructure repairs needed to make this country functional again.  You sign a contract to fix a road or construct a factory, you get one of Donald Sterling's apartment buildings.  If he can't put together a "free market" militia to protect his assets, he loses them fair and square.  No more .gov protection means no more billionaires.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:34 | 4764599 seek
seek's picture

Yeah... So the reality is:

I'm a 1%-er. Effective tax rate: 34% +/- 1 point for the past 10 years. This is what many small businessmen, doctors and lawyers in the 1% bracket pay.

Warren Buffet's effective tax rate: 11.06%. Mitt Romney: 14.1%.

I can tell you right now, if they "raise taxes on the rich," my rate and your doctor's rate will go to 50%+...

And Buffet and Romeny will be paying 11 and 14%, if that.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:38 | 4764616 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

Involuntarily-paid taxes should ideally all be eliminated - for "rich" and the rest...

Stealing - from anyone - is unethical.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 00:27 | 4765427 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

Taxation is not theft

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 10:49 | 4766478 Matt
Matt's picture

By living in the country, you are volunteering. Problem is, not too many places to leave to.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 12:09 | 4766806 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Why? If you are born here, why should you have to leave?

As the income tax is the direct result of influence in the decisions of the SCOTUS as well as an amendment that was NOT properly ratified ("The Amendment That Wasn't") why should we pay a direct tax- it violates the Constitution and the Constitution supercedes all actions of the Federal government.

Taxation must be "proportional". Thus, a poll tax is legal (all people pay the same amount), whereas a tax based on rate structures and deductions for special classes is not.  

Further, if taken to court, the judge will not decide your case based on the seventeenth amendment, but a little known case from 1895 concerning "invisible contracts". See:

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:41 | 4764629 Ban KKiller
Ban KKiller's picture

End ALL corporate welfare. Never happen in our current fascist oligarchy. Never. Only suckers pay taxes. 

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:42 | 4764631 Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

So the Onion is no longer funny or satirical ... and has settled for just being pathetic.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:46 | 4764644 giorgioorwell
giorgioorwell's picture

Funny to watch the ZH commenting board here have a coniption here not knowing how to react to satire.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 20:12 | 4764702 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

What's funny is watching dunces like yourself not comprehending the fact that the Onion's satire just started a discussion. I know it's difficult for you to grasp so just enjoy the pretty colors on the map.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 20:59 | 4764856 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

   Hey Doc. Pretty colors?  Nice work.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:47 | 4764652 pragmatic hobo
pragmatic hobo's picture

problem is not that some people are rich but it's how some of them get rich ... so taxing the rich solves nothing ... what needs fixing is the the way government and federal reserve steal from the tax payers to make select few very rich ...

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:51 | 4764662 whoisonfirst
whoisonfirst's picture

Consumption tax. Houses, services, food, medicine, day care, gas, fuel. Nothing but used goods that have already had taxes paid on them are exempt. Only after the 16th amendment is repealed. If Russia can do it, why can't we? The ultimate Fair tax, everybody pays something.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:51 | 4764665 slightlyskeptical
slightlyskeptical's picture

Stop taxing income. Tax what is not spent instead. First million of assets is free. Progressive after that.  That is if you ever want the governements to stop printing. There is no other solution.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 10:54 | 4766510 Matt
Matt's picture

The only way to stop government printing is to stop government spending more than it makes. Otherwise, no matter how much you tax, there will always be more spending. Now, how do you stop deficit spending?

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 19:54 | 4764674 whoisonfirst
whoisonfirst's picture

Why do we tax behavior we want to discourage, but we don't tax the poor to discourage being poor? I'm not advocating it, but if we're going to socially engineer our society through taxation, why not?

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 23:20 | 4765281 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture


The poor are taxed via inflation. And it hits them harder than anyone else.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 10:57 | 4766525 Matt
Matt's picture

I suspect that the benefits the poor receive, in general, exceed the inflation.

As for rising food and energy prices, that may be a lot more due to supply growing much slower than demand, then due to government deficit spending.

As for housing costs, that is more due to runaway municipal governments and government programs to make housing affordable.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 20:05 | 4764700 Lone_Star
Lone_Star's picture

Flat tax always sounded good to me. When they talk about raising taxes on dividend earnings and other forms of unearned income, I always think of people who were already royally f*cked over by the housing crash. Now they are living on half of what they did have squirreled away, or going back to work to save again in hopes of retiring.
Anyways, if they continue on this rate of raising taxes on unearned income then some of these people will be taxed till they are dead and then even after they're dead, because of some state's money grabbing laws. If a person wants to invest in a risky ass company, or god forbid the government, then any income that is made from that investment should be theirs free and clear. They earned it, because they took the risk, not the government. The government just comes by like a loan shark and threatens to break your legs, or take everything you own, if you don't pay (what they never loaned you).

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 20:10 | 4764720 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Always lower taxes on everything. Negative tax rates are even possible. Pay people a bonus for their wealth. You could tax poor people to do it.

Oh - and Ronald Reagan was a COMMIE, given the tax rates under his Marxist, redistributive regime.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 20:15 | 4764735 spinone
spinone's picture

Rich people are wealthy, so they don't have to work.  There is no tax on wealth, just income.  And the tax that rich people pay is capped at 15%.

You're not wealthy, so you have to work.  You pay 35% on everything.

Laws and regulations:  Made by rich people for rich people.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 20:26 | 4764753 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

I have plenty of idea’s to flush US corporate taxes back into the USA. The problem, you don’t want to work and sit back for a paycheck. The semi-peripheral countries are working to provide you with cheap goods. You purchase under taxpayer subsides.  


When the semi-peripheral labor force decides to increase their labor wage, you have limited your purchase leverage under higher product costs. Repeat your EBT benefit increase x 6.  When a labor force cannot support a non-productive entitlement grifter, you have no one to collect from.


  1. Rich guys will just revoke US citizenship, leave. You can find a new host to steal money from.
  2. Kenyan Negro wants to immigrate 50,000 + million to cover your obligation needs. He needs 100,000 million to really cover the cooked leger books.
  3. Let’s say, $15/hr. Everything rises in price and the entitlement program becomes a loss.
  4. Return to step one. Welcome to Despotism.
Thu, 05/15/2014 - 20:35 | 4764783 truthseek3r
truthseek3r's picture

Between dodging corporate taxes, tax-emept foundations, hiding money oversees in places like the Cayman Islands and corporate welfare, we have created a perfect crony-capitalist system. The middle-class will absolutely get hammered and the lower-class will absolutely become inflated until ppl eventually get fed up with this crap. That's the only silver-lining and bright spot about all of this is that throughout history, ppl will often rebel when their backs are pushed up into the wall. We can only hope that after the system collapses, a better future can be built after that.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 21:01 | 4764864 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  I see a lot of good intentioned people putting the "proverbial" <> "cart in front of the horse", in this thread.

  Focus on making money, not how it will be taxed...

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 21:06 | 4764878 Duc888
Duc888's picture



Fuck no, just print more.  We can redistribute wealth by blowing the ball bearings clear out of the printers and into low earth orbit and mail each US "consumer" a weekly check of 100K.


Problem solved.  Count me in.


Fuck, it's only more debt.  Don't sweat it.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 21:18 | 4764921 Slave
Slave's picture

If 100k is better, 1000k must be better-er.

Think of all the useless Chinese shit I could buy with 1000k a week...sign me up!!

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 21:11 | 4764894 Duc888
Duc888's picture



Atomizer: Rich guys will just revoke US citizenship, leave. You can find a new host to steal money from.


Phuck dat noize.   I can be broke ass here and work 70+ hours a week or borrow one of the 4000+ islands from Philippines and head over there, make a dugout canoe and be a broke ass phucker over there and live a happy life phising for my breakast, lunch and dinner.


Over here I have shit bag politicians and parasitic banksterz bleeding me dry with their unnecessary non productive leachfuckery, over there, just skeeterz.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 21:18 | 4764920 kurt
kurt's picture

As "winning" Buffet has made clear, they're redistributing the middle classes' wealth to themselves.

So, yeah, fuck 'em, fuck 'em hard.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 22:59 | 4765224 DeusHedge
DeusHedge's picture

And in the zero hedge jungle everyone's a... high school graduate. Terribly masinformed people. White people.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 23:07 | 4765243 Leraconteur
Leraconteur's picture

The problem with taxing or taking from The Rich, is that the bureaucracy does not stop there and ends up taking from everyone. It's all well and good that they took Gates' money, but now they are coming for your PM stash.

The only solution for elite oligarchy with 1% owning 99% is societal reset.

All forms of .gov get to this point.

Thu, 05/15/2014 - 23:22 | 4765288 Porous Horace
Porous Horace's picture

I'm against any wealth distribution plan that doesn't put money into my pocket.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 00:23 | 4765415 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

I agree with you, except it needs to be my pocket.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 00:22 | 4765414 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

We need to level the tax field between capital and labor in a revenue neutral way.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 00:48 | 4765457 Debugas
Debugas's picture

my counter question is WHY someone deserves to get the money more than others

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 03:53 | 4765607 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

Outstanding achievement should be rewarded of course.  The only thing this country needs is a manufacturing base.  they shop, on Main Street to be specific, and that creates small town jobs.  But this is an elimination of the midle class and creation of a working class and the elite.  Monopolizing industries is a ticket to hell anyway road you take.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 05:13 | 4765640 Obamanism
Obamanism's picture

Notice the Green states are nearly or actually broke.
Corporations have the same rights as us humans except in tax.
Make the sales tax 20% and the only Books, children clothes and food exempt. If you buy a car at $20,000 you pay $4,000 tax from your earnings/loan of $50,000, also if you buy a car at $100,000 from your $250,000 earnings you pay $20,000 in tax. Hence you both pay the same level of tax. Being of Scottish ancestory I would buy the $20,000 on my $250,000 earnings. I would then have more money in savings and less debt and tax. Debt is a sin not a virtue.
The Corporations do not get any tax breaks and cannot hide their money off shore. Notice that any individuals offshore tax breaks are being attack, but corporations are not pursued. If you are taken to court for tax avoidance ask to be tried under corporation tax law not individual tax law.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 06:49 | 4765671 michigan independant
michigan independant's picture

Taxing wages is despotic. Taxing income from capital growth serves the State. Debt is the currency of slaves. If you ask me to repair your heart valve should I charge you a plumbers rate? The current legal domiciles of capital formations preserve capital since you cannot print, and no star last forever. Now you can consider the voluntary exchanges and renumeration of skills.

The employer-employee relation of this period still bore vestiges of feudalism which today suggest similarity to slavery. An example is the system of industrial servants, Cf. N. Car. Laws 1741, Ch.XXII; So. Car. Stats. 1717, Act No.383 Secs.XIII, XIX, XXII. Resemblance to slavery on the one hand and state control over employers on the other both faded as industrialization progressed. Compare the experience of Prussia, where, after Napoleonics invasion of 1806 and 1807, the peasants subjection to the feudal lords and the lords duty to care for the peasant in times of need, sickness and old age, were abolished simultaneously. (Part I, Ch.X, p.95  4th German ed.

There are no words in the language which throw so much terror into the hearts of workers as the slack season or fired. Other words might conjure up the fear of death, but they do not plunge a man into the same dank prison of worry and care; at best they can be fought against. But the fear of hunger, of finding ones self without a roof over one head, thrown out on the sidewalk, is greater than the fear of death. (Sholem Aseh, East River, Part II, Ch.12.)

Provision had to be made for workers even while not working if the machinery of capitalism was to keep functioning. The golden era of capitalist irresponsibility came to an abrupt close.

With its passing the constitutional system, which had implemented it was quickly swept aside. No more did the Fourteenth Amendment stand in the way of imposing part of the communitys obligations upon employers as such. The decisions which had held minimum wage laws unconstitutional were overruled as inconsistent with the needs of a society engaged in paying out relief. The United States Supreme Court said, through Justice Hughes,

There is an additional and compelling consideration which recent econpmic experience has brought into a strong light. The exploitation of a class of workers who are in an unequal position with respect to bargaining power and are thus relatively defenseless against the denial of a living wage, is not only detrimental to their health and well being, but casts a direct burden for their support upon the community. What these workers lose in wages, the taxpayers are called on to pay. The bare cost of living must be met. We may take judicial notice of the unparalled demands for relief which arose during the recent period of depression and still continue to an alarming extent despite the degree of economic recovery which has been achieved. It is unnecessary to cite official statistics to establish what is of common knowledge through the length and breadth of the land ... The community is not bound to provide what is in effect a subsidy for unconscionable employers. The community may direct its law-making power to correct the abuse which springs from their selfish disregard of the public interest. (West Coast Hotel Co. vs. Parrish (1397) 300 US 379, 399.)

Similarly, the Social Security Tax was a means making employers support workers while unemployed and was now found to be constitutional. The Supreme Courts opinion accurately reflects first, the capitalist philosophy of having the employer-employee relation completely free from social controls, and second, the return to pre-Civil War models after the depression wrecked the economic and governmental machinery which had been in use from 1865 to 1929.

In Chas. C. Stewart Machine Co. vs. Davis (1937) 301 US 548, approving the constitutionality of the Social Security Tax, the court first remarked (p.578): We are told that the relation of employment is one so essential to the pursuit of happiness that it may not be burdened with a tax. Then it refutes this argument by referring to English and Colonial taxes on employment, laid respectively in 1695, 1777, 1778, 1780, 1784, and 1786. (301 US 544, 579-81.) Justice Cardozo concludes by observing (p.580): Our colonial forebears knew more about ways of taxing than some of their descendants seem to be willing to concede. If you never had Employees and worked with Governments you cannot define the management of scarce resources. We call that human capital and it lacks between the ears. There are serious questions that should always be asked about government and its ethics, its spending and its direction to keep it accountable to those they represent. If they say they represent a Democracy leave the room and have Capital elsewhere to survive what they actually are.

Marx had it almost backwards as he was also dead before the FSA and Monarchs also can be known also as not so nice of People either.

True enough, the cancerous growth of Stalinism - Obamaism turned many away from the Soviet Union - Amerika; and even some who should have known better became discouraged, gave up the workers state because of its degeneration and sought to justify their change by novel theories about the Stalinist Obamanist bureaucracy being a new ruling class instead of just a parasitic formation. We may hope that at least a few of these former defenders of the Soviet Union Amerika who still consider themselves revolutionary socialists will now reconsider their position in the light of the new events. The Russian Amerika Fundemental tranformation Revolution served sufficient notice that it is still alive? ;-)


Fri, 05/16/2014 - 08:53 | 4765712 Chuck Knoblauch
Chuck Knoblauch's picture

How do you restore the purchasing power of US$?

Reduce debt spending.

Pay down the debt.

This increases the value of money in your pocket.

Prices should go down.

The Pope doesn't understand Economics.

He should stick to the religion business.


Fri, 05/16/2014 - 09:11 | 4765802 PieEconomics
PieEconomics's picture

Proof that a net worth tax does not reallocate relative wealth: Look at my avatar-- the picture of a pie. After the yellow portion is removed (representing net worth tax) each taxpayer still owns the same percentage of the pie as before the tax was paid.

So, a net worth tax does not redistribute relative wealth. It could easily be assessed on assets which are already commonly registered: bank accounts, stocks, bonds, real estate, motor vehicles, and insurred or professionally vaulted physical assets. This easy net worth tax could be used in conjunction with a transaction tax, without the need for income or payroll taxes.

If you rate down this post, please post your reason; it is scientifically correct. If there is government spending there must be corresponding taxation to mop up the excess money created, and preserve the value of the currency. What you really want to limit is government spending, and I agree with you there.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:25 | 4767421 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

I did not down vote you, why do you care?

The problem is simple- it is still a tax. First, you must justify taxation. Second, realize that fractional reserve banking creates unpayable debt, therefore taxing unborn citizens, denying them representation. Three, your pie chart assumes that the pieces have some logical, proportional relationship. The relationship still requires a defense. Thus, "scientifically correct" is a meaningless value statement. Four, you assume that a government is necessary, especially one that collects tax.


Sun, 05/18/2014 - 05:04 | 4770937 PieEconomics
PieEconomics's picture

Sean7K wrote:"you assume that a government is necessary, especially one that collects tax."

It's not up to me. We are headed for more government, not less. See my article "Truthers and the Singularity" which you can find using a simple Google search. Huge cultural changes are underway, which have to do with the exponential ramp in technology and the compounding risks ushered in thereby.

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