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Guest Post: Why Belgium Can Never Work
The political situation in Belgium - as Europe heads into elections - could well be the writing on the wall for every European country.
Submitted by 'Sudden Debt' as first appearing in Belgian Beurs,
Economists and politicians love to juggle with figures for the trees so you can not see the forest.
Economics is not always easy, but we have noticed that you can do it with an island of 100 people to make it understandable.
Let's call this island "RAINBOWLAND" .
Overall, it looks like this:
Of the 100 residents, 28 were working in the private sector . They go fishing , build houses , canoes , ...
Of the remaining 72 people , 40 are working for the government .
They provide education , security, secret service and justice .
But they also set rules for the workers . They determine import quotas for fishing , ensuring that everyone pays taxes and they invent new rules which everyone must adhere.
There are still 15 people who have no work. They receive an unemployment allowance .
The remaining 17 residents are children , pensioners and long-term sick. They receive money or children , pensions and sickness benefits.
As people who work in the private sector in Rainbowland they are the only ones that effectively produce something , they pay the taxes they pay the others with.
You can say that people who work for the government work to support the production, but in practice it is often the opposite.
Thanks to all kinds of rules and laws, workers must spend more time to comply with these rules, thus production slows.
Of course you do not have to be a genius to realize that a country such as " Rainbowland" can not survive in reality.
It is impossible to operate when only slightly more than a quarter of the population ensures overall welfare.
However there is a "country " in the world who gets it done. And that "land " is ... Wallonia in Belgium!
Of the 3.56 million inhabitants, there are only 1 million to work in the private sector . This corresponds to 28 % of the total population . (Or 28 people on an island of 100 inhabitants . )
The rest works for the government (40 % ) , unemployed ( 15 % ) or too young, too old or too sick to work ( 17 % ) .
Why is Wallonia successful in this as the only "country" in the world ?
Because they can count on the solidarity of the Flemings .
Since as many as 2.25 million people in Flanders in the private, throughout this region creates a lot of wealth .
The government has decided that workers should cede to Wallonia. An ( increasing ) share of that prosperity in Flanders In solidarity .
However, this solidarity with each new government seems to be increasing. The univercity of Leuven recently figured it transfers 16 billion euro .
That's 16 billion euro annually moved from Flanders to Wallonia .
But such figures do not, of course say a lot .
Let's make it comprehensible again .
I just told you that there are 2.25 million people in Flanders in private and that they pay with their production for those who do not produce .
16,000,000,000 divided by 2,250,000 euros " workers in the private " = 7.111 euro
Anyone with a job in the private pays 7,111 euros in taxes that go directly to Wallonia annually. That is just under 600 euros per month!
And it does not stop there.
Because this diligent worker not only pays for the Walloons . He also pays for its own government and solidarity with other Flemings .
What is the cost of this for a resident of Belgium ?
Well , all governments together spend 208.5 billion from last year .
That is what the government costs annually . And that amount is increasing year after year by the way. Ten years ago, for example, the expenditure amounted to "only" 143 billion.
So now we spend 65 billion per year more than we did 10 years ago !
Anyway, we were talking about the cost of government...208.5 billion in spending .
We have to share again by the number of workers in the private sector . In Flanders , Wallonia and Brussels together is that about 3.57 million people.
That gives ... 58,305 euros per year.
Take your calculator not hesitate to it to check the numbers. I also needed to recalculate that figure to believe these numbers several times
58,305 per year ... that's 4,858 euros per month .
Every working person in the private sector should therefore pay 4,858 euros per month in taxes to cover government spending.
And if you have the misfortune to live in Flanders, it becomes even more . Which is 4,858 euros with an average and as you know the Fleming pay a extra of 600 euros to Wallonia.
To finance the government they obviously need to increasing taxes
The government spending is now 55 % .
That means that 55 cents of every euro earned in Belgium, goes to the government .
However, more money for the government , also means less money for the population.
Less money to invest and consume .
In a country where the people have less and less money , the economy has obviously difficulties to grow.
Ok , we know that since the 2008 crisis and that is a convenient excuse to explain why there is no growth in Belgium .
We then conveniently forget that the economy in the previous period (2000-2006) also barely grew. The growth in this period was a meager 1.6% annualized .
If we look at it over a wider period , the figures are only sadder . The Belgian economy between 2000 and 2014, grew only 1.3 % on an annual basis .
The growing government stifles the economy.
However Flemings realize that all too well, remove the Walloon parties who seek a large government yet again!
A logical evolution since this language group has a direct interest in big government .
Nearly 3/4ths of the population who need government because of his or her income . You can hardly expect enthusiasm for smaller government from this quarter.
The Fleming wants , but sees his voice always evaporate in a left-wing government .
You just can not get around the socialists in Wallonia , so the socialists automatically form the basis for a federal government . Always.
And with the socialists in the government you automatically get a left policies increasing government .
The conclusion , for me at least , is that Wallonia and Flanders are two areas with a totally different idea about the role of government .
If one side says "white", you can hear the other side say " black " .
I'm not just talking about economic issues .
Also, on migration and justice , there is a lot of disagreement.
You need two parts of the country that rarely agree with each other to work together?
Is it so crazy to aim for a model in which each party in his part of the country's has to organise their own funding?
Because it seems to me the only way Belgium can continue to operate long term is to have separate accounts because as of now, one side keeps buying shoes with the joint account while the other side has to pay the rent with what’s left.
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What?
But all those treasuries..
Well done SD.
As Grand Dad liked to say, it often comes down to whose hogs are in whose cabbage patch.
Or who gets stuck with the bill;)
I will say, that the way it is written .
Other thoughts
More of it will be in the future section . Because of what is going to .
You think rainbowland is bad? Try Sweden... Population: almost 10 million. Workers in the private sector: about 2,5 million....
so its the cumulative 7,111 that bought all those US papers thus become the third largest holder?
! congratulations, Sudden Debt. happy to see that you have a working brain between those flailing arms
Ghordo,
You like this word "solidarity" don't you?
(i.e., take from the evil rich people to give to the poor good people? AMIRITE?)
"Solidarity" in its contemporary "European" definition is the effective retardation of cultural Darwinism. "Lets support the losers, because, they culture is valuable and worth saving."
come on, SD is doing an anti-socialist piece from a perspective I can adhere to... and you come with solidarity? yes, solidarity is a virtue, and I like solidarity... together with moderation
in my understanding it's an Anglosphere thing, this "solidarity in the context with Social Darwinism". particularly the last concept is in my understanding an American near-obsession. though I'd be happy to stand corrected if you have evidence to the contrary
So at what point, exactly, would you say that the EMZ has had enough "solidarity" and should break up?
LOL. do you realize how federalist your approach is? you are practically asking for a top-down break up decision based on a centralized set of criteria
I am for confederate approaches. "leaving the EMZ" is a national decision. to be taken by a national parliament (or a national referendum), as per treaty
meanwhile, the reason why our national banks are in a confederated setup... is still there: the Dollar Hegemony question and our current global currency wars, where I see, so far, very active players like the Bank of Japan, China, England and the FED... with the ECB reacting as needed
personally, I don't want to see intra-european currency wars again. and I'm not the only one, as you noted not long ago, my points are quite near the center of the current european consensus, which btw sees all european cultures (plural) as worthy and valid... including the Flamish and the Wallonian
and this, imho, is one of our strenghts: we don't engage in cultural wars at a continental level. I can't judge with any authority anything about the political-cultural war currently going on in the US, yet I think I can say that it's a very big thing. yet don't let that big thing going on there cloud your vision of what is going on here
So you're with it until the end.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/Chiran_high_school_girls_wave_kamikaze_pilot.jpg
And no, my approach is not a "federal" approach, its a very national approach. The problem is countries have tried to leave, e.g., Ireland (with their vote for "no we don't want this bailout" and the Greek government getting deposed because it wanted to give its people a voice.) and the increasingly federalized EU prevent them from doing so.
And el oh fucking el at the "which btw sees all european cultures (plural) as worthy and valid... including the Flamish and the Wallonian"
You have to define what worthy and valid mean, then describe those characteristics make it "worth saving."
and you are still twisting what really happened
in Greece, the PM talked about a referendum. the Greek Parliament's answer to his proposal was... to fire him and appoint the Papademos cabinet. fact
afterwards, before the elections, all parties outlined their positions, and the new elected Greek Parliament still does not want to leave any club. fact
in Ireland, there were several referenda. and elections. the current elected Irish Parliament still does not want to leave any club. fact
your approach is not national at all. otherwise you'd be discussing what Germany (or Bavaria) should do, or Belgium, or Greece. instead, you propose yourself as a "voice of the downtrodden" in foreign sovereign countries without any respect for their sovereignty, their constitutions and their national politics, and without accepting their national consensus as their voice. the old word for this kind of approach used to be... imperialistic. though socialists have sometimes this "globalist" approach, together with many extreme liberals/libertarians & neo-liberals
btw both Germany and Bavaria have parliaments that don't want to leave neither the EU nor the EZ. fact
meanwhile, for example, the current, elected British Parliament does not want to join the EZ nor leave the EU. fact
and your hint that there are european cultures that are "not worth saving"... shows that you have not understood anything I've been writing, or Sudden Debt's points against the Belgian federal setup... which is a Belgian Affair between two federated nations forming one sovereign country
I'm sorry, but your views - which might be valid or not - still tell me that you are looking at the whole thing with very American eyes. must be confusing, imho
I once saw a movie where an old geezer tied a gazillion walloons to his house and it floated away. It was almost impossible for him to mainatin control over it.
Is that solidarity?
.
I believe that would be called lighter-than-air-ity.
It's going to get real nasty, trust me.
VW beetle/flaming/year
Flanders -> Wallonie
Can't The William Dudley help them?
Because, Zerohedge exposed 'Maiden Lane' for the embezzling fraud that it is, AND CONTINUES TO BE!
I can't wait until someone shows those TIC spread sheets to the " Blow Horn"! Bitchez
I am sorry, maybe I need a drink or it is too late in the day, but I found this article incomprehensible. His fictional country was created and misrepresented just so he would not have to use the % key?
I am too old for this shit.
Wallonia sounds fake, doesn't it? Real though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallonia
Sounds like the Duchy of Grand Fenwick to me.
It's kinda sandwiched between Freedonia and Robonia ("a land I didn't make up!")
Yes, the author makes a lot of assumptions. Belgium is composed of the French speakingpart, called Wallonia and the Flemish (Dutch) speaking Flanders.Brussels is situated in Wallonia and Antwerp in Flanders. No love is lost between them but apparently Big Breuther keeps them well breaded and circussed.
Watched an episode of "Maigret" last night; set in Post WWII France (late 40's, early 50's).
Maigret goes to Givet, where a Flemish family runs a store. The local French hate them, and won't shop there.
The whole thing lost me at "They provide education , security, secret service and justice."
We sure about this?
Brussels is actually a separate entity from Wallonia. anyway,
of course Sudden Debt is making a lot of assumptions... and not writing the minimum 15 pages necessary to explain the very complex story between the Netherlands, France, the UK and Germany (at that time Prussia) that brought us the historicy compromise we now call the Kingdom of Belgium
note that not even one of those four was ever really happy about that compromise... and the UK, which was the one player that got the most of what it wanted out of the deal is still busy making a lot of humour about it
without the UK intervening, Wallonia could have become part of France as the French kings always wanted, and the German speaking part of Belgium could have become German. Little Flanders, a gem under the european nations... would then probably have been gone back to the Netherlands. and I doubt the Flamish & SD would be completely happy with that, too... then at the end, Belgium was the product of a secession from the United_Kingdom_of_the_Netherlands of 1815-1839
Brussels is situated in flanders, look at the map. See the red part, thats wallonia, see the blue part, thats brussels.
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlaanderen#mediaviewer/Bestand:Gewestenkaar...
You get your facts straight before posting crap, idiot.
Brussels in located in Flanders and used to be the capital of Brabant. Brabant (one of the 'low countries') is now divided between the Netherlands and Belgium. There used to be a lot of rivality between Holland (another 'low country') and Brabant.
BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS
The article assumes the public sector is the same thing as government.
The public sector provides health care and sewers, and for bargain basement prices compared to free-market paradise USA or Jefferson County Alabama.
The public sector collects garbage, provides roads and canals, and makes sure the bridges go up and down.
The public sector "produces" educated professionals to support the private sector.
So, the 40 people in your parable who are making up rules to make life harder for the producers are in fact very often hard-working people paid modest wages doing real work, which needs to be done regardless of whether it is done in the private or the public sector.
As for the people creating wealth: An obvious misconception. These people are producing income, not wealth. In fact they are that much more productive because they are using the human, industrial, infrastructure, and knowledge capital that previous generations have left behind, in addition to god-given natural wealth (land, water etc). None of these people would be earning an extra €4800 a month if there were no public sector -- in fact, earning €4800 a month puts you into the top 20%. The idea that if all the wealth and additional income ("wealth creation") was given to a few oligarchs and all the work done in the public sector was simply left undone the people of Belgium would be better off is ludicrous. Luckily most people's efforts do not provide fuel to "create wealth" for a few individuals, but goes into improving the capital base of the country and society, enabling continued affluence for the future.
How about Jean Claude Van Damme? he is from there!
Van Damme!!!
So that's who's been buying all those treasuries!!
Dim mak is most powerful martial art technique. Now, I do split.
NOW we know what was behind Van Dammes commercial doing the splits between the two trucks rolling down the road. They were filled with Treasuries and Van Damme was guarding them!!!!
Now, if you imagine a country like Wallonia that occupies the same physical area in common with Flanders, you have the situation in the US. And the Walloons in government want more for the area around DC.
Everyone remain calm! DO NOT PANIC!!!
Well done SD ;-)
This SD post comes right out of the IMF, Troika playbook. Pushing the bankers agenda..
Not a word about the money system that is based on debt and interests that are mathematically impossibly to repay.
Not a word about the billions of debt, and the decades of paying interest to banks for the money they created out of thin air. Debt that would not exist if there was sovereign money created by the state, so they did not have to borrow it from private companies that have the monopoly on creating money out of thin air.
You can raise taxes to 100% and still the debt can never be re payed, because there always is more debt than money.. Only an idiot would ignore this important fact when analyzing financial matters.
There is a big leak in the pool, but it's the politicians and economists job to lead the attention of the people away from this leak, by staging huge debates about which buckets to use to keep pouring fresh water in and more important: who has to do the work while other are relaxing and enjoying a swim.. It is called the left/right paradigm. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxDwT55rmIw
1. Banks create new money when people go into debtWhen you take out a loan, new money is created. As people borrow more, more new money comes into the economy. All the extra spending this newly created money funds gives people the impression the economy is doing well, which encourages them to borrow even more. As the debt goes up, so does the amount of money.
2. For every pound of money, there’s a pound of debtBecause banks create money when people borrow, for every pound of money in the economy there will be a pound of debt. If there’s £100 in your bank account, someone else must be £100 in debt. Across the whole economy there will be as much debt as money.1
3. If we want more money in the economy, we have to go further into debtIf we need to get more money into the economy – for example, during a recession – then we have to go further into debt to the banks. This is why the government is desperate to get banks lending again: if banks start lending more, they’ll create more new money in the process, and the people who borrowed will spend this new money.
But if the financial crisis was caused by people having too much debt, how can the solution be for people to take on more debt?
4. If we try to pay off debt, then money disappearsWhen you pay down your debts, the money that leaves your bank account doesn’t go to anyone else – it just disappears. This is because loan repayments are just the opposite process to money creation: banks create money when they make new loans, and effectively ‘destroy’ money when they repay loans.
So when lots of people try to pay down their debts at the same time, money disappears from the economy. As a result of there being less money and less new lending spending slows down. When this happens, it’s like draining the oil from the engine of a car: pretty soon, everything stops working.
This means that it’s almost impossible to reduce our debts without causing a recession. And you personally can only pay off your debts using money that was created when someone else went into debt. This creates a dehttp://www.positivemoney.org/issues/debt/bt trap, where over time the level of personal debt in the economy has to keep growing.
Watch: http://www.positivemoney.org/issues/debt/
Belgian sovereign debt chart
Belgium was right on track, reducing debt fast!!! Good thing the EURO came around, with a convenient Euro crisis to trow Belgium back into the banker debt dead spiral: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Staatsschuld_pct_bbp_...
Bet they don't pay astronomical insurance premiums.
The U.S. is little different, it's just hidden under the cloak of "responsibility".
Local taxes, utilities, fees, ACA, and the Pozi markets and debased currency.
US Puerto Rico, US Detroit, a few others come to mind...
Kind of reminds me of the Schiff island analogy.
Ron Paul bonus at the end ....
I've visited Antwerp and stayed in an artist's home. There are tons of ex-pat americans from the hippy days and a strong busking community. Wine is good, women lovely, rents cheaper, by far, than New York. There's every kind of restaurant and an amazing folk music presence. The people have a healthy scepticism about government and barely hidden prejudice french vs dutch. They have issues with immigrants. Their "homeless" have a great place to stay, literally in a van down by the river but think before your criticise. With $1000 a month and a caravan (RV) you could live there for years, dining in the restaurants, drink Stella, of Triple Trappist Ale and go stuffed and snockered back to your home by the river. Rinse repeat.
Oh, they invented french fries and waffles which they sell on the street. There's all kind of toppings and its cheap! You can even get pom frit at midnight with a mustard sauce, two giant beers. Yeah, and they have the most interesting "car boots" which are yard sales, right in the park. There was stuff from the Boer Wars and horns from old horse drawn wagons, carriage clocks, open air markets, public transportation, places to sit, places to pee, places to exchange currencies.
Interesting.
Notice that the amount of growth in the private sector declines as the public sector increases. What happens when the growth, finally, becomes negative; who's ox gets gored? Does war break out over resources?
Then they declare "socialism" and (try to) call it a day...done deal, fait accompli...although the Flemish would choose other words, probably Dutch profanities..
How about Flanders holding a referendum to secede from Wallonia? Worked well in Ukraine/Crimea.
Bravo SD. As a former resident of Mons & Soignies you have the Walloons pegged.
And they will not change as the corruption is top to bottom - which is what these regional wealth transfers invariably cause.
A bit excessive on the bold print and one sentence paragraphs.
bold... well, it's Sudden Debt's piece. breathless is his trademark. we can count us lucky that it was not ALL CAPITALIZED !!!!!
"Rainbowland" lacks all realistic history.
Add in the effects of organized gangs of bullies, controlling Rainbowland, which gangs of bullies rise and fall over the course of multi-generational spans of time, and then that simplification would start becoming realistic.
Let me rewrite the script:
Suppose there is island with 100 people on it. 10 of them organize themselves into the gang of biggest bullies, that can beat the other 90 people up, until they agree to do what the 10 tell them to do. That is the original state in Rainbowland. After time passes, a few generations grow up and die living within the social systems set up by the biggest bullies, long ago. Those who were agreeing to do what the original biggest bullies told them to do, like go fishing, or build canoes, have some descendants that are still doing that. Meanwhile, the biggest bullies' descendents are still collecting lots of fish, because their ancestors used to beat the fishermen up until they agreed to do that. Over the course of time, the descendents of the biggest bullies are also making a symbolic show of giving away some of the fish that they take to children, or to old or sick people. However, the ability of the descendents of the original bullies to do that depends upon the social habits that were made and maintained by their ancestors beating up the fishermen, until those fishermen, (and canoe builders, etc.) agreed to "share" their fish with the gang of bullies.
Those bullies, and then their descendants, created an elaborate system of the biggest bullies' bullshit social stories about "sharing," and so, they make a big symbolic show of sharing some of the fish they take with young, old or sick people, however, none of that actually makes any rational sense, but rather, is an irrational set of social habits due to the ancestors of the bullies having been able to beat up everyone else until they agreed to do what they were told.
That review of real history much better explains what is happening in Rainbowland, and why. Furthermore, that review explains how the passage of time automatically drives the social system in Rainbowland to get more psychotic, with the succession of generations, since the original system was based on backing up lies with violence, while the later system evolved on that basis, so that the foundation of the economic system on Rainbowland was based on enforced frauds, which automatically got worse, faster, as time passed, and the descendants of the biggest bullies were able to bullshit more and more, but were gradually losing their relationship to the original real power to beat people up, but rather, the entire system started to drown under its own deeper and deeper piles of bullshit about itself.
Such a Rainbowland, drowning in its own bullshit social stories, which were the lies that the bullies originally were able to beat everyone else into accepting, and then eventually agreeing with, by telling their children to believe in, because the bullies said so, will find it impossible to deal with any of its real problems, because all of its social behaviors are based on the deliberately ignored, or even forgotten, history of the gang of the biggest bullies forcing everyone else to do what they were told, until behaving like that were but a bunch of habits, which the people in Rainbowland were proud of.
The original facts that the "sharing" was based upon bullies engaging in robbery, by beating everyone else up until they agreed to "share" is deliberately ignored, or even forgotten. The bizarre distortions and irrational dis-proportionality of the "sharing" is not recognized, or not understood, because almost everyone has learned to believe in the biggest bullies' bullshit, which enables them to forget about, or deliberately ignore, the real history of how Rainbowland came to be the way it is, that people were being forced to "share," in ways which were explained fraudulently, because, the original "sharing" was not voluntary, but rather, based on robbery done by the biggest bullies.
Of course, in Rainbowland, there may be a small number of people who totally embrace the bullshit about "sharing." They will cooperate with the descendents of biggest bullies, by promoting the ideals that everyone should "share." All of their solutions to the problems in Rainbowland will be based on people learning to "share" better, while they will deliberate ignore, or forget, that the established "sharing" system was originally based on the bullies' robbery, which gradually, as the generations passed, transformed more into becoming "sharing" based on believing in the bullies' bullshit about "sharing."
The few people who exhort others to engage in better "sharing" will say that nobody should be a bully. They will say that nobody should beat other people up until they agree to do what they are told. However, those few people who exhort others to "share" better will continue to deliberately ignore, or have forgotten, all of the real history on Rainbowland, about how and why the bullies set up the Rainbowland social system of "sharing."
After enough time passes, almost nobody will be left alive that does not deliberately ignore, or has forgotten, the real history of Rainbowland. Therefore, it will become more and more impossible for Rainbowland to solve any of its real problems, because the entire society will be drowning in the biggest bullies' bullshit social stories, and eventually be going down for the third time. Gradually, with the passing of generation after generation, the real problems will become so bad, that the bullshit "sharing" system will collapse, while the vast majority of people in Rainbowland will not be able to understand why that is happening, but rather, most will be looking for inspiration for their solutions in better "sharing," in ways which continue to deliberately ignore that they never were voluntarily "sharing," but rather had social habits due to their ancestors being beaten up by the biggest bullies, until they agreed to "share."
As their problems get worse, faster, in Rainbowland, most people will become increasingly insane, as their bullshit ideas about "sharing" malfunction worse and worse, but still, they think that the solutions to their problems will be found in even better bullshit "sharing." One might suppose that, eventually, the systems set up by the old bullies, long ago, in Rainbowland will break down enough, so that the reality of new gangs of bullies will then finally break through, to establish some new system of bullshit "sharing."
Tragically, there will probably never come a time when enough of the people in Rainbowland understand the real relationships between real bullies and real sharing, enough to build a better system which is not based on bullshit "sharing," but rather is based on more realistic relationships between people, which are integrated in an overall more realistic system, which pays attention to all the factors, and tries not to deliberate ignore or forget about some of the relevant factors, regarding life in Rainbowland.
Spaceship Earth is an island too, like Rainbowland. It is controlled by the biggest and best organized bullies, who get away with enforcing frauds against everyone else. As time passes, everything becomes more insane, as generation after generation is brainwashed to believe in bullshit, and be proud of the stupid things that they did, because the ancestors of the biggest bullies forced their ancestors to do those things, and so, everything is operated in ever more completely crazy ways.
The real problems of Rainbowland are the same as the real problems on Spaceship Earth. The social systems were made and maintained by the biggest bullies, who explained all of that with bullshit. As generation after generation grows up, lives, and has children within those systems, they automatically become more insane, because the real history of Rainbowland is NOT taught to the children of Rainbowland. Rather, the schools and the public communication in Rainbowland is almost totally based on teaching people to believe in the biggest bullies' bullshit about how wonderful Rainbowland is, because they share.
But, RM, if they only believed in and practiced "true" Capitalism it would all work! Bullies wouldn't exist. People would be happily raising unicorns and making skittles...
Get rid of all "systems." Do not accept any sitting govt or army. Anyone suggesting either, set down your hoe, take aim and fire; pick the hoe back up. A few generations of this and maybe we start to establish the proper and necessary habits.
It is NOT possible to get rid of all "systems!"
Even IF one posits a political miracle, whereby the bullies disappeared, then some new bullies would spontaneously reinvent themselves, because, in a world were there were no more bullies, the new bullies would have a field day against those who were not protected from being bullied.
There is ONLY ONE possibly realistic solution, and that is to attempt to have better dynamic equilibria between the different "systems" of organized lies, operating robberies.
All of the "solutions" based on the fantasy that they could be no death controls, and nobody operating any murder systems, are RIDICULOUS. But nevertheless, the controlled opposition to the established bullies are almost totally dominated by people spouting that kind of bullshit, which can never exist in the real world. Moreover, such impossible ideals always actually backfire badly in the real world, because they make the opposite happen to what they say they are going to do. Since impossible ideals NEVER work, people who promote those impossible ideals only guarantee that what will actually happen in that the situation will collapse to being the opposite of what they wanted.
What you are suggesting Seer, is outright stupid impossibility, on all kinds of different levels. I describe your attitude as being the one promoted by the Black Sheeple, or the reactionary revolutionaries, which is extremely common on Zero Hedge, as well as elsewhere. Those attitudes deliberately ignore the chronic political problems which are inherent in the nature of life, and meanwhile, proposes impossible "solutions" which have no realistic mechanisms. What actually happened was that the best organized gangs of bullies in the past, the War Kings, made the sovereign states, which were covertly taken over by the Fraud Kings, the private banks. All the way along, the biggest bullies' bullshit dominated society, while the controlled opposition to the established systems spouted the same bullshit as the biggest bullies originally approved of.
Anyone saying that there "should" be no bullies is spouting impossible ideals, which are bullshit, and which actually make the opposite happen in the real world. One of the main reasons why our problems keep on getting worse, faster, is that there is no effective opposition. The reason why is there is almost totally controlled opposition. The Black Sheeple, reactionary revolutionaries' "solutions," which are based on impossible ideals, have never worked in the past, and they can never work in the future. But nevertheless the controlled opposition groups are almost totally dominated by people who spout that kind of bullshit, which actually ends up enabling the bullies to get even worse!
The Zombie Sheeple tend to get stupider and stupider, because the Black Sheeple try to lead them towards the impossible "solutions" that "everyone should be better sheep." That is what you have proposed, Seer, and it both does not work in the shorter term, since the bullies already exist, and already dominate civilization with their bullshit, and furthermore, chronic political problems always exist, and there must necessarily be some death controls to cope with those chronic problems. The more that society deliberately ignores that, then the worse the problems become, Therefore, we end up with runaway "systems" of more and more deceitful death controls, which are opposed by the bullshit that nobody should be bullies, and that there should be no consciously operated death controls.
As long as we perceive human beings as separate from their environment, that is, as long as we can talk about them at all, then there will necessarily be organized systems of lies, operating robberies. The ONLY solutions, as long as we continue perceiving and discussing human beings using the innately human story telling abilities, MUST be dynamic equilibria between the different systems of organized lies, operating robberies. "Solutions" based on that there should be no more such "systems" are fundamentally impossible, and always actually cause the opposite to happen, which is even more unbalanced runaway systems operated by through that kind of bullshit, promoted by the biggest bullies, and agreed to by the controlled opposition. What you suggested, Seer, was merely another classical, controlled opposition attitude!
I despair of any better realistic solutions for chronic political problems, because not only were the established systems built by bullies, which promoted bullshit, but also, almost all of the controlled opposition to those bullies continue to promote basically the same bullshit too. That is why, over and over again, in the vast majority of articles on financial affairs, and other political issues, one can read the majority of the material as being relatively good analysis, which then almost always tends to conclude with bullshit "solutions" at the end. The established systems promote bullshit, while the controlled opposition promotes the same bullshit too! More scientific, realistic, understanding of civilization is practically impossible to be able to result in better resolutions to chronic political problems, because not only do the established systems cruise on the history of what the bullies really did, and the bullshit that they promoted to justify that, but also, almost the entire opposition to them is controlled to continue to promote the same bullshit view of the way the world should work.
In my view, almost everyone who is published on Zero Hedge is some shade of Black Sheeple, or reactionary revolutionary. That is the primary reason why "we" can never agree on any better solutions to the problems which we generally understand, because, we almost always see relatively good analysis followed by bullshit solutions based on somehow realizing impossible ideals, which can never actually work in the real world.
The biggest bullies, the banksters, and all their kinds of bullshit, have an extremely easy time continuing to dominate and control the world, because almost all their opposition is controlled by the same bullshit ideas as the bullies originally promoted. We COULD have better organized systems of lies, operating robberies, but we could NEVER have no such systems at all. Almost all of the opposition to the established systems do a relatively good job of analyzing the ways that the established enforced frauds systematically operate, but then, that opposition then almost always asserts that no such systems whatsoever should exist, and that impossible ideal then always fails to function, but rather, continues to backfire badly.
Therefore, the better analysis of how the combined money/murder systems operate the debt/debt controls almost never flows through to better resolutions of the problems, because there is always a disconnection between the relatively good analysis, versus the impossible ideals that are then proposed as the basis of the "solutions." Therefore, as if it was not bad enough that the established systems are almost cruising on autopilot, with their entrenched systems of enforced frauds already in place, it is even worse that apparently the only opposition is controlled to promote impossible ideals, as the basis of their "solutions" which have never worked before, because they are profoundly too unrealistic to ever be able to work.
It is just a shell game that will collapse no matter where they move the assets / liabilities. Just like using a credit card to pay for another credit card.
It is all about creating more (governmental and private) debt that can't be re-payed (money as debt video ) and then using this debt as an excuse to increase taxes and confiscate the possessions of the ones that can't keep up with the tax/debt treadmill.
It is a silent shift to communism / feudalism / an new unknown system / a mix of these systems? If this process continues mathematically the end result will be the elimination of private property. The process starts at the bottom and slowly but steadily moves up the ladder until there is only a small elite left that will own everything.
The only thing you need to know this, is to use logical reasoning that cuts through all the BS distraction that politicians and economists produce to keep people fighting each other (and therefore the effects, not the source of all economic mayhem), sadly logical thinking is the one thing the masses lack. And most of them who do are easily distracted through the fog and noise that is spewed out by the system for exactly that reason.
There is a big leak in the pool, and all people do is argue over the sort of buckets to be used to keep pouring water in the pool. Nobody looks for the leak that is eroding bigger and bigger..
So there is little hope things will ever change. People will keep believing that the economy is a organic process like the climate, while there is no such thing as coincidence or unexpected effects in this 100% planned and controlled economy.
I realize that this post is a waste of time, like throwing pearls before pigs. It is only a way to ventilate frustration about the idiocy of the masses that will never be able to understand any of it. Not even the fact that if all the money in the world would be taken and used tomorrow to repay all debts, there still would be debt left unpayed. (and there would be no money)
I am very curious to see how this will play out in the coming decades and how people will adapt to new realities. And if all this chaos and confusion will eventually lead to a better or a worse system. (I refuse to say 'how this will end', because as long as there is life on the planet there is no end, only an ever changing reality, nothing lasts forever good nor bad: http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/tablescharts/a/120610-Fall-Of-Rome-Ti... )
But now lets get back to the important stuff:
Miley Cyrus: Giving A blowjob to a male blowup dol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcfASdwCWSM
I think that everyone should be in fishing. How about 7+ BILLION of us? We'd all be "working" and "productive," right? Shame about the eventual wiping out of the fish stock, but hey, at least we wouldn't have died from being over-burdened by govt...
This is all silly propaganda trying to sell us something that HAS never managed to operated outside a classroom and could never do so. Sure, it sounds all great, but it ain't going to happen, no matter whether I join the bandwagon and everyone else does also. As soon as we hit peak growth it all starts reversing and the wheels come off.
It's easy to poke at what's failing. But to present a "solution" is an entirely different thing/level: it's why I stuff human hubris in the toilet and do not attempt to engage in offering "solutions."
There will be "enforcement" of the laws of this "solution." And the enforcers will do what enforcers have ALWAYS done- steadily increase their powers to the extent that they push away the very "solution" that they're supposed to be enforcing. This is no theory or conjecture, this is history, this is human behavior.
What you refer to is the actual problem; the population explosion. The situation is completely un-sustainable.
There is a simple solution: a tax for every third child a man or a woman puts on this earth. (only starting at newborn of course, not retroactive, that would be unfair)
Problems standing in the way for this: nations - nations want large populations for taxation and military might...
So there needs to be a global treaty that fines countries that don't implement this policy...?
Second problem: elites need a lot of poor and unemployed to keep wages down.. If there was no unemployment, this would be impossible to do...
Exponential population growth with shortening doubling times: http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/
Maybe the Netherlands can send in some trainers and logistical support.
Just don't look for the Dutch army to cross that border.
Sounds like a damn good reason to leave Belgium!!!
And go where?
There's the expresion, ''Belgium: Italy of the North'' though that seems a bit unfair towards the Italians.
Portugal is worse. The money goes into the government, but it only provides the government.
Ruled by an interconnected bunch of soft-mafia families, Portugal is the most sorted country in Europe ....... for the few.
That is why for ages now the Flemmish want to get out of Belgium. They are fed up of footing the bill for these lazy Wallons. And the guy who ran this country called Belgium and failed to create a Belgium 'demos' -Guy Verhofstadt- now wants to be boss of the EU. So he can F up things at a European scale.
Which means more of this..
"
Troika dictates what measures and laws should be applied and voted upon. Specific edicts which can be found in the relative agreements are:
“The Greek government is bound to adopt and implement, …will be applied, …will change the law, …The Greek government will adopt legislation and take the necessary steps, …The Greek parliament will vote, …The Greek parliament will adopt…..” etc.
The Troika, literally determining the fundamentals of the state budget of Greece and its domestic policies, also dictates the following condition:
“The (Greek) authorities are committed to consult the European Commission, the ECB and the IMF if it intends to adopt policies which are inconsistent with this memorandum” (p. 1 of Annex IV n.3845/2010 MoU).
In other words, the Troika and ominously enough, NOT the “Greek government”, has veto power over ALL laws which would be brought to vote in the Greek Parliament! The same conditions are once again prescribed by the Troika within all of the articles of the Second Loan Agreement and the Second (revised) Memorandum of August 6, 2010 the latter of which is discussed further below in this discourse.
The aforementioned terms of the International Loan Agreements and the Memorandums constitute a transfer of the legislative, juridical and executive powers of Greece to foreign forces thereby violating Articles 1 & 28 paragraph 2 of the Constitution of Greece. Accordingly, the Greek government’s AUTHORITY (not only functions) is surrendered to the Troika. Subsequently, through the collaboration of the now subservient Greek parliament, the dictates of the Troika are imposed, violating the Sovereignty of the Greek People and Article 134 of the Penal Code.
Moreover, in accordance with Article 28 paragraph 2 of the Constitution of Greece, the International Loan Agreement was not legally ratified, nor even validated in pretense and therefore is inadmissible to parliament. Therefore, even if the Loan Agreement was validated by each and every parliamentarian (5/5), the Agreement would still be considered “treacherous”. Naturally, this crime of High Treason can not be dismissed as not even the 300 members of parliament can not “sign away” our national sovereignty to foreign powers.
Read more at http://www.maxkeiser.com/2011/04/the-greek-government%e2%80%99s-betrayal-of-greece-to-the-foreign-occupational-forces-of-the-troika/#ruyAg6TQXTWdr925.99
It makes one wonder why we even have laws or a constitution? They only seem to apply to the taxpayers when convenient for the elite. But hey since real jounalists have been replaced by propagandists, this is the new normal. I just wished they would stop using this Utopian word DEMOCRACY.
Well, Greece is the testing ground and blueprint for the rest of the EU. It serves as an example for the rest.
Joe A
Soon you will be called LAZY too.
At the rate the EU is adopting poor countries only to send their poor into the west (including Belgium) you will be unemployed too, unless you accept a huge wage cut, dramatic cut in your vacation days, reduced or no pensions and so on...
Are you blind or just stupid or .. ? To fall for the old "divide and rule" scam like this. Start using your brain..
They will make sure there a a lot more unemployed than there are jobs, so they can call the unemployed lazy. And who would sympathize with the lazy? They deserve to be punished don't they?
All the increased production benefits where once sold as a dream for a better future, people would have to work less because of automation..
Reality is all these benefits are being transfered to a small elite, while the majority is simply hung out to dry without a job. And with massive unemployment they can maximize their power/profits even more, through reducing pay and benefits for the ones who are lucky enough to have a job.
But hey carry on defending feudalism 2.0, but don't come crying when it's your turn to be the victim! Which you will become eventually, without any doubt, it is moving up the ladder and it will reach you to, unless you are a high member of the club: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5dBZDSSky0
And for the small business owners who think they will benefit:
You will be run out of business, there are thousands of lobbyists in Brussel to make sure of that. To make sure they will push you out to establish monopolies for the elite run multinationals, if you're lucky it will be trough take over, when less lucky it will be trough competition from Eastern based companies who don't have to comply to western laws and therefore work so cheap you will have no chance of surviving.
Another tool is harsh regulating, like safety and environmental regulation, which will cost fortunes to apply, fortunes the multinationals have, but you don't...
So good luck with supporting this shift until it's your turn to go down..
True, the lobbying industry is really big in Brussels. More on this on this website: http://corporateeurope.org/
And more to come with the new US-EU 'free trade' agreement. Capitalism is all about reducing costs and increasing profits....for the happy few of course.
yes. finally someone pointing to the true source of smell from that sewer that is in Brussels: the lobbyists. the Euro Cloaca Maxima
any suggestions how to get rid of lobbyists, in general?
Getting rid of lobbying is an utopic thought and lobbying in itself doesn't have to be a bad thing. Companies are experts on their field, so their input can also have positive effects. But it would have to be more transparent. People would have to know about what exactly there is being lobbied for..
There is a way of improving government as a whole though. Not eliminating lobbying and corruption, but making it very hard..
1) All governments (local, national and EU) should publish their bookkeeping online for every citizen to see. Every Euro that comes in or goes out. So you can follow exactly what is happening with all that money. So you can trace every euro spend. The technology exists, so there is no reason for not implementing it. Every post stamp bought should be in it.
2) All politicians should be obliged to expose their family tree on a website. So we can see if there is a special favor for certain spending to go to companies of relatives.
It's called transparency, it would not solve everything, but it would make a big improvement, but it will never be implemented. A lot of politicians don't like informed citizens. It would reduce their power..
Ron Paul says Free Trade Agreements erode National sovereignty, destroy jobs, and only serves the special interests. So-called "Free Trade" is Government-managed trade. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFLRuMHAK_w
I could write something but that would get me into trouble with Amnesty International ;-)
Perhaps you are right but in the case of Flanders and Wallon this has been going on ever since Belgium was created as a nation. The Wallons always looked down on the Flemish. The king is a Wallon and not very popular with the Flemish. In the past in the Belgium army the officers were mostly Wallon, etc.
I have Flemmish friends who have complained for decades about them bailing out the Wallons.
You are right about having to accept wage cuts, reduction in holidays, etc. The goal is to wipe out the middle class as they have done in the US.
I am not saying these problems don't exist, I am saying they are exaggerated to redirect attention from the source of all financial mayhem.
If there is a huge fuel fire, you want to cut of the fuel flow first. not carrying buckets of water like idiots to put out the constantly growing fire. Go to the source of the fire and shut it down!
Only then you can concentrate on resolving the little fires that are still burning, but hey will be relatively easy to put out.
First the foundation of our economy has to be rock solid: money as means of exchange, not as a tool for submission.
http://www.peakprosperity.com/forum/review-web-debt-shocking-truth-about...
I thought Dexia bank had fixed Belgium so comprehensively that there was no point in anyone bothering to get out of bed in the morning?
Like EU will never work either, it's a SCAM !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkCe43V3XFc
I do hope the socialists get bashed in the next election, luckely our socialist Secretary of State "John Crombez" can always go for a carreer as a musician, he is real talented both as a singer and guitarplayer !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnCpIsk68O8
All you need to know about the EU elections: your vote does not count, it's only windowdressing. Proof is in the rejecting of the EU constitution by the people, wich then was repacked and rebranded as a treaty so it could be passed without referenda: http://youtu.be/hkCe43V3XFc?t=26m32s
that's utter bullshit. pleanty of parties to pick there (all in all 100+, in seven parliamentary groups, currently) without the fear of your vote not counting (because of the proportional electoral system). meanwhile we don't have a frigging EU constitution, yes. only a treaty organization called EU
what the EU elections aren't: a poll about the EU or the EZ memberships. that is a national affair, for which national elections for national parliaments are for
YES you can vote
NO your VOTE DOES NOT MATTER
Whatever you vote, if they don't like it they will ignore it. ARE YOU STUPID? Watch teh video, what more proof do you need?
+80% of the laws are made by the EU commission, which are then made into national laws, the parliament is powerless. The commission is unelected.
The people in the parliament are the well payed window dressers, there to create the illusion of democracy. Which they happily do at astronomic tax-free wages..
Watch the video, or do some reading, you EU troll!
EU to set up euro-election 'troll patrol' to tackle Eurosceptic surge: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/9845442/EU-to-set-up...For your info the majority of EU countries are going to send many more eurosceptics to Parliament via this election.
Also during this election all voters in EU countries will vote to ELECT the HEAD of the EU commission; position occupied by Barroso today. So the parliament and the EU commission will have more elective power, to become answerable to the people of nation states who are in eurosceptic mindset and general doubt about Euro future, a sentiment that now prevails in Europe today. That is effectively democracy in function.
As for the true power equation, the principle of subsidiarity ensures that ALL local parliaments in countries apply local laws which have not been approved by Euro parliament supranational legislation, which BTW is also inputted by the Euro council of heads of state of each nation. This latter group has been calling the shots during this crisis.
In fact Barroso and van Rompuy have been totally sidelined by the Council heads of state, who are dominated by the Merkel and Hollande type of ELECTED decision makers.
Now go wash you mouth for bad mouthing Ghordius who IMO makes a bigger and more + contribution here to the debate than most ZH posters.
So you think the problem is fixed if we elect one of the candidates that are lined up, and pushed by the press, to choose from?
It's like in the states, you elect a president for x years based on a lot of promises they never keep and then you can call it a democracy?
All democracies are a farce, you elect some pre-choosen puppets and then they are free to do what they want for x-years. By the time there are new elections, most people have forgotten all the sh*t the elected pulled of earlier (if they even know).
I think the only real democracy is Switzerland, where there are referenda over all important issues. So people have a continuous say in things, not just a symbolic choice of who is going to lie to get elected and then forget all his nice promises to do as he/she pleases (hugging the elite to get a good job after his political career, in banking or some multinational.)
So are you also on the troll payroll, or are you simply using your second account? How can anyone defend what they did with the EU constitution scam as being democratic? If you defy logic and reality in such obvious way you must have a stake in it..
when you've DEFINED what democracy means in the reAL world then maybe we can talk about WHO is trolling; meanwhile you make me feel like Lolling.
I don't care how you feel, for me this is not on a personal level. It's about facts that are clearly exposing undemocratic ruling. People voting against and being laughed in their face..
But hey, don't worry, nothing I say will have an impact, because most people are ignorant..
I already answered you before your question:
"I think the only real democracy is Switzerland, where there are referenda over all important issues. So people have a continuous say in things, not just a symbolic choice of who is going to lie to get elected and then forget all his nice promises to do as he/she pleases (hugging the elite to get a good job after his political career, in banking or some multinational.)"
This crisis was only possible because the so called democratic government can do as they please once elected, like making bad loans at ludicrous rates with their bankers friends, sharing the profit with them and sending the bill to the people, who don't even know what went on..
This could never have happened in Swiss, due to their referenda.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ2QOMHq1a8
Sorry for the down vote. I thought I was looking at 2 choice question.
And the TTIP free trade agreement between US and EU that is negotiated in secret by the EU without any democratic influence at all.
How is that democratic? You are obvious a shill, only here to misguide and confuse the ignorant.
With all important decisions made by the unelected commission, what democratic power is left to the national level? Barely none..
The ones who determine the financial, are the ones in power, so it's not the national governments. So national voting is also meaningless distraction.
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to point this out, your trolling only means generating more attention!
http://www.eu-facts.org/en/ireland/dictatorship.html
You are right about the free trade deal which will give corporations dominance over EU and national legislation.
There is also a proposal regarding EU tax which has a provision for the future that national parliaments and governments cannot object.
But people are waking up...
I'm a declared enemy of the TTIP, so I applaud your criticism of it. For lack of time: it's neither the Europeans (nor the Asians for ther deal) who insisted on secret negotiations. It's the BIG BIZ corpo-lobbyists on the American side who wanted secrecy
though eventually... it will be voted on
What does voting mean if even the commissioner that does the negotiations has trouble understanding the consequences of it, how will the average Joe know what it means: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnOTyOjV4I4
After +10 000 views, the link provided above is no longer valid.
Peter vlemmix, the maker of EUROMANIA, has now shared his documentary on his you tube account, the link starts at the EU constitution scene: http://youtu.be/cO4Ayo4mYZg?t=26m33s
So what ya gonna do about it SD?
Moan moar?
Van Rompuy: "even if people don't want EU-expansion, we are going to do it anyway":
http://ejbron.wordpress.com/2014/05/03/van-rompuy-ook-al-willen-de-mense...
Sudden Debt = Maarten Verheyen
This isn't just happening in Belgium. Norway which has done extraordinarily well on account of their very small population together with very large natural resources, is experiencing harder to reach natural resources. That means higher expenses to extract smaller quanitites and thereby smaller profits to help pay for a very generous safety net for the greater majority of the population. What to do as the energy industry deals with diminishing returns? Fishing more whale ain't gonna do it. Building new industries is difficult when taxes are the lifeblood of the economy.
Taxes needed to repay illusionary debt + interest to banks who created this money out of thin air. Impossible to repay, therefore continuously forcing more loans to pay the existing ones. Growing the illusionary debt to private money printers.
Debt that is necessary as an excuse tool to steal more from the people through tax, austerity, privatizations, wage-cuts, destructing social systems and spread poverty for the people to increase wealth and power for the elite and their puppet governments..
The more production there is, the more trade, the more money has to be lend as debt to private banks. So the harder we all work, the poorer we get..
This is the reason the richest countries are the most in debt. As long as money is created as debt to private banks instead of sovereign money created by the community (the people, the state) There are no solutions, only excuses to confiscate more from the people, because 'they have spend to much'.. (that is the rhetoric used by the receivers, to play the guilt card)
Inflation is another nice trick to make sure the slaves will have to keep working harder and harder to earn new money, because the saved money is reducing in worth. It's insanity, only possible because people are stupid! Which is also the reason why it will always stay like this. http://www.drlwilson.com/Articles/INFLATON.htm
We now know who really has been paying up these US treasuries. Not Belgium but Flanders!
Everything is a microcosm of everything else...a single resident's finances as a bigger problem of Vero Beach, FL as a problem represented by Dade County, as represented by South FL as represented by FL as respresented by the SE US, as represented by the US, as represented by Earth...Ponzi extraordinaire!!!