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Guest Post: Meet The Man Who Killed Keystone

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Wendy McElroy via Mises Canada,

On May 12, the United States Senate fell 5 votes short of the 60 required to invoke cloture. (Cloture is a way to close debate and cause an immediate vote on a bill.) The measure in question was the first energy bill to have hit that chamber since 2007. It was killed by the Keystone XL Pipeline project which would funnel Canadian crude oil from Alberta down to Texas refineries.

Republicans wanted to add an amendment to approve the project. Democrats wanted a stand-alone vote on it; with Democrats in the clear majority in the Senate, the project would have probably been defeated. But if Keystone had been approved, President Obama would have almost certainly vetoed it. The end result: no bill at all, with or without an amendment. Keystone is dead in the Senate, at least until 2015 when the November 2014 elections may have reversed the balance of power. Of course, there is always that veto waiting in the wings.

The stakes were especially high for about a half-dozen Democrats who do not tow the anti-Keystone line of fellow Democratic Senators. The dissidents come from states that are dependent on the oil or gas industry; they are nervously facing a tough re-election battle in November 2014. One of them is the influential new chairman of the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee, Mary Landrieu of Louisiana. As the new chairman, she’s been campaigning for re-election on the promise of “getting things done,” which is clearly not the case.

One man stands in her way. No, not President Obama, but the billionaire environmentalist Thomas Steyer. The leftwing Steyer undoubtedly is sincere in his green beliefs but sincerity on an issue is easier if you also stand to make a fortune from it. The conservative Daily Caller (Nov. 8, 2013) noted, “Most of Steyer’s $1.4 billion fortune came through investments in fossil fuels. In fact, Steyer’s biggest cash cow is Farallon Capital Management. Farallon has stakes in a number of oil, gas and pipeline companies, including a large investment in Kinder Morgan, an oil and gas pipeline outfit that plans to expand its own TransMountain pipeline to transport oil from Alberta to refineries and shipping terminals in the U.S. and Canada.” (Steyer actually founded Farallon with $15 million in start-up money.)

Keystone threatens Steyer’s profits in several ways. A glut of Canadian oil would drive down energy costs in America, and the new supplier would be a competitor. But more than anything else, the method of supply would also compete with Steyer’s self-interest.

The Business Insider (June 17, 2013) observed that, if TransMountain’s “expansion is approved, TransMountain will be the only available outlet for Alberta crude. If Keystone XL is killed, it will leave TransMountain as the only game in town for transporting oil directly from the oil sands to export terminals, up to 900,000 barrels a day. And most of that oil will be shipped west to China.”

No wonder Steyer has not breathed a word of criticism about TransMountain, which is functionally the same as Keystone. No wonder he lobbied against the Northern Gateway pipeline which would take oil from Edmonton to the west coast. It, too, would compete with TransMountain.

Steyer does not speak of his own profit, however. When the Washington Post (April 22, 2014) compared Steyer to the conservative billionaire Koch Brothers, who donate millions toward election campaign, he reportedly “chuckled.” Then, he replied “Their policies line up perfectly with their pocketbooks, and that’s not true for us,” he said. “What we are doing is we are trying to stand up for ideas and principles that we think are incredibly important but have nothing to do with our incomes or assets.”

But, then, Steyer is used to misrepresenting facts. The Washington Post Fact Checker awarded Steyer four Pinocchios – its highest ‘honor’ – for the depth of his inaccuracy about Keystone. The proximate cause of the award was a 90-second ad, which he both funded and starred in. There he stated, “[a] vote for Keystone is a vote to raise gas prices on Americans and send the profits to a foreign oil company” even though more oil and more competition would almost certainly lower gas prices.

A 90-second ad, of which Steyer is the funder and star, claims that Keystone would create only 35 permanent jobs. And, yet, a 2000-page State Department study reported, “Including direct, indirect, and induced effects, the proposed Project would potentially support approximately 42,100 average annual jobs across the United States over a 1-to 2- year construction period (of which, approximately 3,900 would be directly employed in construction activities).” The State Department is a critic, not an advocate of Keystone.

Steyer backs up his misrepresentations with cold cash. A lot of it. For example, he reportedly poured $8 million into Democratic Gov. Terry McAuliffe’s re-election campaign. He funded the Virginia campaign for one reason alone; the governor’s rival was a notorious skeptic on global warming who would have backed Keystone. For $8 million, Steyer eliminated an opponent, bought a politician and impressed the remaining Democrats with political muscle he could flex on their behalf.

For 2014, Steyer has announced plans to use his advocacy group, NextGen Political Action, to funnel about $100 million into the campaigns of Democratic congressional candidates. PACs, such as those founded by Steyer, are political action committees that can legally raise an unlimited amount of money from entities such as corporations and individuals; within loose restrictions, the money can then be directed to a specific party or candidate.

The Washington Post commented on Steyer: “He’s quickly emerged as a new and much-needed source of campaign money for Democrats eager to find ways to match the rise of conservative donors who are using new super PACs to spend millions of dollars attacking congressional Democrats on the airwaves …”

How desperate are the Democrats for money? They are willing to literally sell the Senate floor. From the evening of March 10th through to the next morning, about 30 Democratic senators held a 15 hour speechathon to address “climate change.” The event was planned at Steyer’s home with such influential Democrat Senators as Majority Leader Harry Reid.

How much did the Senate cost? With the dangled $100 million divided by 15 hours, the Senate was for sale at approximately $6 million an hour.

Political commentators are openly speculating on what Obama will cost. Keystone has strong bipartisan and public support; and even two environmental analyses by the State Department couldn’t point to any major negative impact of the project. Nevertheless, as the Sunshine State News (Fla., April 25, 2014) reported: “Never mind the Kochs. After assessing who did what bad to America lately, I nominate Tom Steyer for the top of the list. Last week the billionaire hedge fund manager from San Francisco bought off the White House to the tune of $100 million in order to delay the Keystone XL pipeline decision.” But, then, Keystone has nothing to do with “incomes or assets”; it is all about “ideas and principles.”

 

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Fri, 05/16/2014 - 13:59 | 4767104 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

It'd be nice if this pretentious fraud could be conscripted into road crews cleaning up the next spill of oil at the next crash of railroad tanker cars.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:16 | 4767158 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

"Most of Steyer’s $1.4 billion fortune came through investments in fossil fuels".

"the billionaire environmentalist Thomas Steyer"

You mean another HYPOCRITE lefty?  Thats a shocker!!!

These kind of pricks use more "fossil fuel" in one trip across the country with their private jet, than I use in a whole YEAR in my whole HOUSEHOLD.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:21 | 4767203 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Al Gore's private jet flies on corn...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:30 | 4767239 RockRiver
RockRiver's picture

Really? How? Please 'splain that to me.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:52 | 4767269 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Attention all rabid anti-tarsands environmentalists...

 

All you have to do is look at washing the oil out of the tar sands as a massive environmental clean-up project of a ginormous natural oil spill that doesn't use any taxpayer dollars and you are instantly cured or your affliction...

What have you got against clean oil-free soil anyway?

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:00 | 4767341 g'kar
Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:54 | 4767523 Save_America1st
Save_America1st's picture

shouldn't this be called BRIBERY of government officials?  Shouldn't government officials who take BRIBES be forced to resign and tried for taking bribes and thrown in jail???

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 16:25 | 4767643 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Whatchu saying homes? We have the best gubbamint money can buy and this article proves it... 

 

Sat, 05/17/2014 - 08:50 | 4768998 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Word up dawg....we've got a President that only knows how to community organize. Unfortunately, that's not what we need right now.

Mon, 05/19/2014 - 07:09 | 4772972 N2OJoe
N2OJoe's picture

"Shouldn't government officials who take BRIBES be forced to resign...?"

No. They should be drawn and quartered.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 16:51 | 4767714 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

No, the Supine Court ruled that corporations are people, and that bribing candidates with unlimited amounts of money is not bribery but "freedom of speech".

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 17:41 | 4767843 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

I feel freer already.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 19:59 | 4768114 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Puts "We the People" in a whole new light eh?

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 18:52 | 4767985 g'kar
g'kar's picture

In a sane world yes. Those aren't bribes though, they're campaign contributions.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 16:44 | 4767696 torak
torak's picture

Who is John Galt?

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 18:43 | 4767964 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

I am not sure but I am thinking he isn't an American.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 17:22 | 4767786 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Thanks for the informative link.

The article made me laugh, as it mentions previous oil-train ("bomb-train") wrecks and associated deaths, one in downtown Phili. Why do I find it funny? Because while grannie Penny is being felt up at the airport, and other daily deprivations of our Liberty in the name of  "security," a hardy motivated person could derail an "bomb-train" in some large town or city and do astronomical damage. LOL

Just goes to proves that it isn't about "security," but about money and power, as always.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 18:49 | 4767980 g'kar
g'kar's picture

All too true.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:24 | 4767423 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Did I miss the sarc tag, or do you really think this way?????

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:42 | 4767472 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

I'm a tortured 50/50 on this one...

I think the oil company executives, their families and everyone who works in an executive function should be forced to drink bottled and untreated Athabaska river water provided for them by the Fort Chip First Nations...

That would clean things up in a hurry.

(Yes it's a mess but we both know that it will eventually have to be developed... hopefully responsibly)

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 17:24 | 4767792 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Can we just agree to do the banksters first?!

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 17:55 | 4767871 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Done!

Sat, 05/17/2014 - 08:53 | 4769001 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

 

I'm a tortured 50/50 on this one...

 

Let me help you with that. Do you like paying $4.00 a gallon for gas?

Sat, 05/17/2014 - 15:14 | 4769676 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Now that you mention it I'm feeling a little less tortured today...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 18:45 | 4767967 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

When you say "do" the bankers, what exactly are you saying?

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 19:13 | 4768022 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

"Do," as in the short form of "guillotine."

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:25 | 4767214 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

And how much money does Mises receive from the oil industry in Canada?  Everyone is compomised. And worth pointing out:

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2012/11/28/us_secretary_of_state_hopef...

And she's hardly alone among Obamas comrades. 

That out of the way, keystone is a bad idea on basically every level and anyone with a brain can see this plain as day. Those without brains go on and get angry at dem evil lefties tryin' to destroy deh world economy an' shit. 

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:37 | 4767263 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

I'm glad you're coming around. Clearly any party that supports the death penalty for the crime of being an inconvenience is the FUCKING ESSENCE OF EVIL.

 

 

 

 

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:29 | 4767436 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I'm not aware of a single industry that wants anything to do with any group of Austrian Economists (let alone any of the various Mises Institutes). They all much prefer the status quo of Keynesian banksters funneling the loot to them in order to purchase a Keynesian government.

In other words, they do everything in their power to avoid being the next dinosaur to die at the hands of creative destruction.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 17:57 | 4767877 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

Why don't you tell us then, exactly how much Mises recieves from the oil industry in canada, if you are going to make claims like that. And let me add to that, that oil is going to be extracted and used one way or another, this year or next decade, and all those green house gases you lefties seem convinced will finish off humanity any day now are going to be released one way or another, by us or by china. I would much rather conduct business more 'locally' with canada than any other country who hates us(not saying they don't have their reasons). And of course susan rice is trading on insider knowledge, all those parasites do. Which is why most of us on here want less of them, and less govt, unlike you, who, despite pointing her kind of hypocracy out, wants her and people like her to have MOAR control over us. All that said, I am against keystone, despite all of what i said, if it results in even one emminent domain abuse in which a person has their property stolen from them to give to this company

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 19:57 | 4768109 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

And let me add to that, that oil is going to be extracted and used one way or another, this year or next decade,

Nope, it won't. 

I would much rather conduct business more 'locally' with canada than any other country who hates us

US is in the midst of an oil boom, keystone (though the propagandists claim otherwise) is primarily for export. 

http://g.foolcdn.com/img/editorial/010612oilgraph.jpg

Which is why most of us on here want less of them, and less govt, unlike you, who, despite pointing her kind of hypocracy out, wants her and people like her to have MOAR control over us.

No, I simply see no difference between her and the corporate circles she runs in. Riddle me this, who is there to protect your American constitution? McDonalds? Comcast? GE? No, of course not, it'll be you and your community which is a hell of a lot like a small democractic government. 

Don't understand why people have such a difficult time reconcilling this..

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 21:12 | 4768290 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

you havent answered my first qustion about the mises institute. which isnt surprising. Since you can't. and you think this oil wont be extracted why? and you always want more and bigger govt, JC. everything you advocate, one way or another, would require moar and bigger govt. Don't understand why you have such a difficult time reconcilling this...

 

Sat, 05/17/2014 - 02:19 | 4768751 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

you havent answered my first qustion about the mises institute. which isnt surprising. Since you can't. and you think this oil wont be extracted why?

Mises canada investors hold stock in various oil / extraction / servicing companies - if they're questioning others whilst writing a very pro kxl article would be fair game to have full disclosure on their operation, particularly considering they are a 'think' tank. 

Oil won't be extracted because humans would be well extinct before that amount (tar sands combined with the higher quality / cheaper stuff that'd be used first) of oil could be consumed. So yeah, that oil will remain in the ground no matter what - unless jellyfish suddenly get interested in it down the road.   

and you always want more and bigger govt, JC. everything you advocate, one way or another, would require moar and bigger govt.

You're going to be governed either way, the world is not big enough to avoid this simple fact. The question is do you want to be governed by an accountable .gov or an unaccountable .gov (including other forms of government i.e. a multinational corp). 

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:06 | 4767351 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

"...HYPOCRITE lefty?"

The Environmental Left is used as cover.  A "false flag" of sorts.

Would it be easier to understand if they dressed as Polish soldiers and attacked a German radio station?

Geezus, don't be pulled around by your nose.

 

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 18:01 | 4767887 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

winner. Nice analogy with the polish soldiers too. Just like the 'war of terror' is used by the right, (and, now the left as well. Ok, the whole govt uses that one). Both are just used as a distraction for the plebes while the ruling junta tramples our rights and steals more money. And these rubes buy it hook, line, and sinker.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:09 | 4767374 SilverRoofer
SilverRoofer's picture

its easy to deny others for what you already have.Steyer is typical leftwinger

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 16:46 | 4767700 Pairadimes
Pairadimes's picture

Billionaire environmentalist.

I'm just gonna let that sit there and ferment a bit.

How fucked up is the world you live in when it has a 'billionaire environmentalist' in it?

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 19:53 | 4768095 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

Wonder if he knows some of the other billionaire enviromentalists like His Royal Virus, Maurice Stong, Al Gore, Goreg Soro's, .....hey this is quite a big club, wonder if they hang out and plan stuff together?

 

http://www.worth.com/index.php/component/content/article/4-live/926-top-...

 

 

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 16:39 | 4767678 Blankenstein
Blankenstein's picture

and there's more ...

"Out of college Steyer went to Morgan Stanley and worked on mergers and acquisitions for a few years before getting an M.B.A. at Stanford in 1983. Then he joined Goldman Sachs in New York, where he developed an expertise in risk arbitrage, and trained under Robert Rubin, who later became Bill Clinton’s Treasury Secretary (he also became a mentor to Steyer). "

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kerryadolan/2011/09/21/an-accidental-billion...

Large footprint:

http://junksciencecom.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/screen-shot-2013-05-20...

and also owns a house at Lake Tahoe.

Also has four children, so he is increasing the population:  NOT GREEN

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:13 | 4767160 Timmay
Timmay's picture

Or, we could get a nail gun and take care of this problem once and for all.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:37 | 4767264 DESMO_RR
DESMO_RR's picture

Every one of those corrupt fucks needs to be taken out to the middle of PA Ave. and shot.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:50 | 4767306 t0mmyBerg
t0mmyBerg's picture

Aye.  And when does the man that killed keystone get whats coming to him?  Sooner the better

Sat, 05/17/2014 - 08:41 | 4768987 drendebe10
drendebe10's picture

Lock n load all you US citizen tax paying serfs and peasants. Mission:.  Ruling political elite and their crony capitalists.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:16 | 4767180 I am more equal...
I am more equal than others's picture

 

 

Smegma from the lowliest Koch brother's servant is more honorable than Steyer.

The Business Insider (June 17, 2013) observed that, if TransMountain’s “expansion is approved, TransMountain will be the only available outlet for Alberta crude.

No wonder Steyer has not breathed a word of criticism about TransMountain, which is functionally the same as Keystone.

Used douche from a P.I. whorehouse is more tolerable than Steyer.  

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:40 | 4767230 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Transmountain expsansion is the best worst option, because when the oil spills it will be in Burrard inlet and English Bay for all of Vancouver to see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjjhVnCfahs

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:30 | 4767444 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Perhaps it will absorb all of the cesium that is piling up there?

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:37 | 4767465 oddjob
oddjob's picture

I knew hating Seafood would pay off in the end.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:24 | 4767216 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

When I'm justifying my life's work to the all-mightly I don't want to say "well, there was this pipeline that threatened a snail"....

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:46 | 4767283 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

The hypocracy of this douchbag rivals the height of Mt Everest.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:50 | 4767303 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Let me walk that statement back.  TransMountain being a corporation is a person.  Therefore this douchbag is simply doing his job for a constituent.

Move along....nothing to see.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:01 | 4767109 Dr. Venkman
Dr. Venkman's picture

Until proven otherwise, assume EVERYONE is compromised.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:12 | 4767142 Relentless101
Relentless101's picture

Best advice EVER.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:02 | 4767112 maskone909
maskone909's picture

this has nothing to do with dems or repubs and it never has. they all work for the same group of power brokers. 

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:07 | 4767136 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

The shareholders of the FedRes.
This low level billionaire is just bunce to the politicos.
Trillionaires is where its at.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:29 | 4767233 maskone909
maskone909's picture

the .gov junk troll is out in force dejour today. 

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:04 | 4767120 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Well, pipelines can spill, too. Keep in mind most of this pipeline issue was about the jobs to build it.

The oil flow from Canada and the Bakken are probably pretty close to maximum and there is spare rail capacity still.  Flow is not being held back by absence of pipeline.

As the flow starts to reduce post peak, there will be even more rail capacity.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:05 | 4767361 Matt
Matt's picture

How's that >50,000 gallon spill in Los Angeles doing?

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 16:12 | 4767602 MiguelitoRaton
MiguelitoRaton's picture

Burlington Northern (Buffett) rail-bombs (rail oil) are FAR more costly than pipelines, they go through populous areas (like Chicago) and are very dangerous as evidenced by the explosions of late. It is not simply a matter of "is there capacity to move the oil" but at what price (environmental, financial and human lives).

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 16:53 | 4767716 Matt
Matt's picture

Because oil pipelines do not go through populated areas?

50,000 gallon spill in LA:

http://globalnews.ca/news/1333455/50000-gallons-of-oil-spill-on-los-ange...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 17:15 | 4767767 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Yo, Mig guy, your point is not absurd or even wrong, but I got $5 that says when it becomes clear, soon, that cities are going to starve if the trucks don't haul food then no one is going to give a shit about the environment.  The greenest, most tree hugging SNAP swiper is going to demand that food roll.

Whatever it takes to get those Doritos onto the shelves is what has to be done.  Doing it cleanly will get lip service, but if any measure is called too clean and looks like it's keeping those bags off the shelves, then that measure is going to get waived.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 17:57 | 4767836 californiagirl
californiagirl's picture

I agree.  Buffett has something to do with it.  Right now a large amount of oil is moved via railroad.  http://www.investmentu.com/content/detail/warren-buffetts-railroad

He is doing pretty well with the tank cars on his railroad.  "Much of the shale oil is coming from parts of the U.S. and Canada that don’t have the infrastructure to pipe it to refiners, so it’s going by rail."  And the Administratin is working hard to make sure that infrastructure is not built.    http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-11-14/2014-outlook-warren-buff...

Besides, Steyer and Buffett are buds.  http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/03/03/allies-o...

Do you think he worked out a secret deal/agreement with the FED/Adminstration when he agreed to the $5 Billion bailout BofA-ML?

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 20:04 | 4768128 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

What do you think is more valuable?

The net margin on 3% of car loads (or 3% of revenue on ~10% of the BH business) 

or a $34 crack spread tax free on 150,000 bpd....

Do the fucking math and tell me straight which one is more money....

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 20:37 | 4768206 californiagirl
californiagirl's picture

Considering BNSF's net income was $4,271 million last year and Berkshire Hathaway Holding's income from consolidated subs was $19,815 million, what do you think?

http://www.bnsf.com/about-bnsf/financial-information/form-10-k-filings/p...

http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/2013ar/201310-K.pdf

 

Sat, 05/17/2014 - 16:30 | 4768583 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You are almost home, do the math...

Edit: I guess doing it made you realize that what BNSF makes is dwarfed by what the Kochs will make....

Thing is that the Kochs will still make out even if XL is not built because the oil will still get to the coast even if the choo-choos get a cut....

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:04 | 4767126 kurt
kurt's picture

I wonder which intelligence service owns Steyer. My guess MI6 and this signals a crack between the US and the pervert illuminati.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:13 | 4767162 waterhorse
waterhorse's picture

Fractures are good.  Hope to see more of them.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:06 | 4767128 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

The environment - strictly and unavoidably limited natural resources,  a closed system in need of conservation efforts and rules - is where I part company with the zanier libertarian fringes. 

This article never ONCE mentions the environmental damage this big sop to the oil industry would cause.  Not once.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:12 | 4767155 waterhorse
waterhorse's picture

I noticed that too.  But of course, the battle isn't over yet...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 16:15 | 4767612 MiguelitoRaton
MiguelitoRaton's picture

It also doesn't mention that oil transported by oil uses so much more oil. The bottom line on oil sands is that they will be mined regardless of transport method and cost.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:14 | 4767169 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Not to mention who funded the bullshit report used for the 42,000 job figure...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:00 | 4767235 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

 

Lol 42,000. People actually believe that... which is the unfortunate thing. Ain't no one at these companies give two flying fucks about employing people, if they could replace everyone with slave children from Bangladesh they would do it in a heartbeat.

 

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:07 | 4767364 Matt
Matt's picture

"A 90-second ad, of which Steyer is the funder and star, claims that Keystone would create only 35 permanent jobs. And, yet, a 2000-page State Department study reported, “Including direct, indirect, and induced effects, the proposed Project would potentially support approximately 42,100 average annual jobs across the United States over a 1-to 2- year construction period (of which, approximately 3,900 would be directly employed in construction activities).” The State Department is a critic, not an advocate of Keystone."

So, according to the author of this article, a 2-year contract is a permanent job? These numbers do not neccesarily conflict. 3900 temp jobs, 35 permanent jobs.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:15 | 4767175 Timmay
Timmay's picture

Maybe you missed the point that Thomas Steyr really doesn't give a fuck.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:16 | 4767178 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

In other words, you're just a statist asshole that pretends to be for Liberty. 

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:27 | 4767217 thatthingcanfly
thatthingcanfly's picture

I don't think the article's purpose was to explore environmental issues regarding Keystone. It was to show the hypocrisy of this Steyer guy, and the bought-and-paid-for nature of our Congress-critters. So omitting the environmental stuff isn't really a flaw.

I did, however, notice the article's poor grammar and usage. I nearly stopped reading at "tow the line." Good grief, hire an 8th grader to proofread for you!

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:34 | 4767247 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

Perhaps Steyer IS conflicted.  Perhaps he is in it for himself...  But the wacko fringe libertarians have been screaming for years that economists who work for government-supported universities are ALL bought, they say.  Politicians are ALL corrupt.  ALL climate change scientists are paid shills of government.  Etc., etc. and on and on...

At the same time, these zanies absolutely WORSHIP technology and seriously believe that, if it were only freed of the governments it would enable everyone to consume as much as they liked forevermore, drive to Walmart, never have to give up anything and on and on into a unciorns-and-fairies technological future...

Even if Steyer is conflicted, opposing Keystone is a GOOD THING.  (And I REFUSE to believe that NO ONE, anywhere, without exception, has any principles.)  There must be some good, honest, principled men somewhere out there, even IF Steyer is not one of them... 

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 16:22 | 4767637 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

<<<wacko fringe libertarians >>>

<<<these zanies absolutely WORSHIP technology>>>

Really? Libertarians like the Quakers and the Amish?

 

<<<only freed of the governments it would enable everyone to consume as much as they liked forevermore>>>

That is insanity. You are badly misinformed.


Fri, 05/16/2014 - 16:39 | 4767677 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Two strawmen do not cancel out each other...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 17:19 | 4767778 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Everybody parts company with something.

I have zero interest in environmental issues because as I say above, the moment . . . the microsecond. . . and soon . . . that it becomes clear the trucks can't roll and bring Doritos to the shelves -- that's the microsecond every green, treehugging SNAP swiper demands the trucks roll at whatever environmental cost.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 19:38 | 4768057 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

On that we agree!  But it still doesn't change the fact that unnlimited free enterprise resource explotation in a free market won't fly for long with a limited resource...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:25 | 4767218 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

You heartless pro-railroad bastard!

Don't you even care about the children?

http://static.ibnlive.in.com/ibnlive/pix/sitepix/07_2013/canadian-author...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 19:53 | 4768096 californiagirl
californiagirl's picture

What about the massive environmental damage the rare earth mineral mining for the "green" industry is causing???  And by exporting our manufacturing to China and other 3rd world countries, we actually are increasing the worldwide pollution because those countries do not have nearly as many pollution controlsand abatement programs as we do.  So we would help reduce the overall world's pollution if we drilled more oil in the U.S.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 21:17 | 4768304 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

curious how 'the tradgedy of the commons' wasnt mentioned either. or how people connected with the govt get themselves special rights to 'the people's land'. don't let yourself be fooled into thinking these rich 'envirnonmentalists' arent doing these for their own personal interests

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:07 | 4767134 Relentless101
Relentless101's picture

The hypocracy with these people knows no bounds. Just like that fucking leech Harry Reid who thinks all money in politics is corrupt... except for the money that benefits him of course.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:14 | 4767164 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Environmentalism was never about the environment.  It has always been about politics and gaining leverage,   power and money.

Same reason I don't need to know the science to know that "climate change" is bullshit.  Whether the Earth is warming or cooling, casued by man or not, EVERY SINGLE SOLUTION TO "DEAL WITH IT" WILL DO NOTHING BUT ENRICH A SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE AT THE EXPENSE OF EVERYONE ELSE AND WILL NEVER 'FIX' THE PROBLEM, IF THERE EVER WAS A PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Same as it ever was.  And most people too stupid to see how they're being played.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:15 | 4767173 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Take it easy shit for brains...

What you don't know about climate science fills many many textbooks...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:18 | 4767191 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Knowing a bunch of nonsense doesn't mean you know more that is worth knowing. It just means you know more nonsense.

 

Worrying about something that can not be changed does no one any good, unless you are a rich oligarch and don't care if no one else can have some upward mobility and a raising standard of living.

That's ok, it's more important to restrict the consumption of those useless eaters right?

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:25 | 4767223 CCanuck
CCanuck's picture

Knowing a bunch of nonsense doesn't mean you know more that is worth knowing. It just means you know more nonsense.

= educated beyond his intelligence

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:27 | 4767430 Cruel Aid
Cruel Aid's picture

Nice!

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:50 | 4767504 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

How many bales did you use for that strawman?

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:31 | 4767245 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

comic books is more like it...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:34 | 4767253 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

Flak, speaking of shit for brains

You are the face of institutionalized ignorance/delusion

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:48 | 4767291 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

The term "Climate Scientist" will be a joke punchline within 10 years...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:53 | 4767318 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

If we would only be so lucky... 

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:04 | 4767357 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

We will.

Please note the prevalent polar vortex phenomenon during the Dalton minimum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:07 | 4767368 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

This is a good timeline for reference on evolution of climate science:

http://www.aip.org/history/climate/timeline.htm

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:09 | 4767371 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

And what exactly is the current relevance of that?

BTW, the year without summer was for the most part caused by the massive Tambora eruption...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:49 | 4767499 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Absolutely!!!

And please don't forget the worst earthquakes Eastern America has experienced since Colonial times...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1811%E2%80%9312_New_Madrid_earthquakes

Also prevalent during solar minimums... just like is occurring again today.

This IS real Flak.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:51 | 4767510 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Do us a favor and spare us your deep insight...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 16:13 | 4767544 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Who needs any historical references of solar effects on the planet when you have a new CO2 religion right Flak? :)

Say you should check out the occurances of solar flares/CME's and earthquakes as well as vortex activity...

 

August 1st 2010. Solar flare

August 3rd 2010. A 6.4 earthquake hit Papa New Guinea.

---------------------------------------

February. 15th 2011. We had a Class X solar flare. The flare hit the earth on February 18th 2011.

On February 22nd 2011 the deadly 6.3-magnitude Christchurch earthquake struck

------------------------------------------

On March 9th 2011, a class X1.5 solar flare erupted;

A Coronal Mass Ejection struck our magnetic field March 10th. Bright Aurora Borealis were visible in the northern United States. This was a result of an M3 flare that occurred late on March 7th, 2011

On Friday, March 11th, 2011 On Friday, an 9.0 magnitude earthquake hit Japan, creating a tsunami.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 16:53 | 4767717 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

o gawd the stupidity................

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 16:58 | 4767730 Matt
Matt's picture

You think solar activity may cause Yellowstone to blow? If that happens, we're pretty fucked.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 17:09 | 4767740 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

No... Yellowstone is situated above a magma chamber. Nothing to do with the sun. When it blows (every 700K yrs or so I think) we are fucked.

A Carrington event will almost certainly hit us first (EMP from CME) and send us into the stone ages first however...

The effect of a flare or CME is on the earths magnetosphere. When stresses have built up in the slip zones from tectonic action the increased magnetic field strength/fluctuations act as a trigger.

 

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 17:49 | 4767860 Matt
Matt's picture

If volcanic eruptions are not related to solar cycles, why are you bringing up the Year Without a Summer, which would then be just a coincidental overlap of the Dalton Minimum and the eruption of Mount Tambora? Or is it different between volcanoes along plate lines?

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 18:02 | 4767888 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Coastal volcanos above subduction zones / Pacific Ring of Fire shows a relationship.

Yellowstone or Hawaiian Islands who knows...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:12 | 4767378 Matt
Matt's picture

Why did you link to the massive volcanic eruption that caused a really cold year? The Dalton Minimum was, what, 1 degree lower temperatures worldwide?

If the solar cycle is resulting in less energy from the sun, but the planet is staying the same temperature, that means more energy is being stored. Guess what will happen when sunspot activity picks back up again?

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 16:22 | 4767639 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

It's not even so much that global temperatures fell Matt... it's that the exact N/S jetstream conditions we see today also occurred back then.

Record winter floods in England this year... alternating with record snow and cold in other years?

This happened before during a weak set of solar cycles called the Dalton Minium and we are seeing the same atmospheric patterns setting up again.

BTW... there was some ice on the water at Detoit EVERY MONTH of the year including the summer and massive crop failures in N.A. and Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 16:56 | 4767728 Matt
Matt's picture

The Year Without a Summer was due to massive amounts of aerosols from volcanic eruption. During the Dalton Minimum, temperatures around the world were lower. If we are now in a similar cycle, but the temperature is remaining the same or increasing, then once the solar cycle goes back to normal, the temperature will rise much more quickly.

We are also talking about global average temperature, not just the North Atlantic, and not just over one year.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 17:13 | 4767762 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

"During the Dalton Minimum, temperatures around the world were lower."

 

Correct. They were also lower before the Tambora eruption. 

How did they get lower?

The solar minimum.

We are just about there again.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:35 | 4767257 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Flakmeister - I really enjoy some of your commentary but not regarding climate change.

The science I have see shows earth warming 1-2 degrees in 150 years when you a erage it out. Plant and animal life thrive, more food.

I worry more about the toxins in my lungs but less so since I am in America and much of the pollution problem now resides in China.

China is not capping emissions or interested in Kyoto protocol. That's because the capital that controls it are not either. Carbon credit is a scam. An attempted method of global tax. Sure Americans and Europeans can cough up more right? We aren't overtaxed noooo not at all...

I'll debate global warming when mankind has found a suitable response toward exploitation by predators so in other words not in my lifetime.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:49 | 4767299 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Chinese per capita emissions are at the level of US in 1950 or so...

Indian per capita are at the level of 1905 US.....

Europe and the US are reponsible for ~80% of total emissions since 1850....

And your grasp of the impact of a 2 C rise is naive...

----

BTW, don't worry nothing will be done, we are too "smart" as a species for that to happen...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:59 | 4767332 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Blame the IPCC then...

As estimated by the IPCC Fifth Assessment Report (AR5) "there is high confidence that ECS is extremely unlikely less than 1°C and medium confidence that the ECS is likely between 1.5°C and 4.5°C and very unlikely greater than 6°C."

I can agree with the 1-1.5 C figure but due to low solar output for C24 and C25 I expect the direction for the next 20-30 years is DOWN...

17 years running and NO statistically significant warming while anthropogenic co2 emissions have increasd by well over 50%...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:21 | 4767409 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

First off quantify the peak to trough chance in forcing in a solar cycle and compare that to the change in GHG forcing over the same period....

Second, your statement about 17 years is so utterly full of horseshit that only idiots and bald faced liars cling to it. See for example

http://flakmeister.blogspot.com/2014/03/on-other-hiatus.html

Or

http://tamino.wordpress.com/2014/02/23/uncertain-t/

Finally given that the oceans represent 97% of the heat capacity and their heat content has steadily increased over the past 17 years just demonstrates again that either you are a calculating liar or ignorant fool...

http://www.skepticalscience.com/pics/NODC_2000.png

 

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 16:36 | 4767664 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Ah yes they finally found Trenberths "missing heat"!

You need to buy better drugs..

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 16:40 | 4767684 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

More like you need to get better facts....

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 16:59 | 4767712 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Hey Flakemaster... try to explain the raw vs. adjusted temperature data difference that your warmistas have cooked up...

http://beniciaheraldonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/ts.ushcn_anom2...

 

Recent temperatures are always adjusted UP

Older temps are adjusted DOWN

There's your GLOBAL WARMING!

And yes it is man made.

They should never let climate advocates measure and keep the temperature records just like the referee of a sports game should not be a member of one of the teams...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 17:14 | 4767765 Matt
Matt's picture

Please explain why the oceans are becoming acidic, why the glaciers are all disappearing, and why the ice sheets are melting, if the temperature is the same.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 17:49 | 4767822 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

pH of over 7 is considered alkaline not acid. The pH of the ocean is currently 8.2

Therefore the ocean is alkaline.

The history of the earths atmosphere shows that levels of up to 5,000 PPM of CO2 have existed and shelled mollusks did not dissolve in the seawater during this time or there would be no fossil record. What makes you think they will dissolve now?

http://blogs.agu.org/wildwildscience/files/2009/07/Picture-211.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mollusc_shell

Ice sheets almost always melt during interglacials. Ice age for 100K years and warm interglacials for 10K yrs or so. That is the pattern of the Pleistocene. During the previous interglacial sea levels were 20 feet higher than they are today. If the planet does not go back into a new ice age we should see sea levels rise back to this level.

Ever been to Florida? Much of the state was submerged during the last interglacial which is evidenced by all of those inland shells and coral formations.

Record ice in antarctic BTW in case you haven't heard... you don't hear much about that in the MSM these days...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2014/05/16/record-polar-ice-exte...

Also the earth has been a lot warmer for most of the last 10,000 years than it is today. You speak of disappearing glaciers... here's one that is disappearing in Alaska and what do you find coming out of it?

A GIANT FUCKING HEMLOCK LOG from a hemlock forest from a much warmer period over 1,000 years ago!!!

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/5/12/1242...

Yet the warmistas say the planet has never been warmer...

Right...

 

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 18:14 | 4767912 Matt
Matt's picture

I said becoming acidic i.e. pH is dropping, not that it has become acid. Shellfish crops are failing along the Pacific Northwest due to change in ocean pH.

Ice floating on the ocean doesn't matter, the glaciers and ice caps matter, the melting permafrost matters.

Of course there are natural warming and cooling cycles, the concern is that human activity is going to / is accelerating the rate of change so that it is too quick for many species to adapt to, and for humans to adapt to as well.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 18:37 | 4767956 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

I said becoming acidic i.e. pH is dropping, not that it has become acid. Shellfish crops are failing along the Pacific Northwest due to change in ocean pH.

This is one of the funniest... people are like ocean is > 7 therefore ocean acidification is all bullshit!! Yea.. if ocean was < 7 life on earth for humans (and many others) would be in rather big trouble... Basic (ha!) chemistry folks, get on it.  

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 23:55 | 4768587 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Scary isn't it?

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 17:42 | 4767845 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Obama.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:15 | 4767392 Matt
Matt's picture

"Chinese per capita emissions are at the level of US in 1950 or so..."

Ok that is bullshit. If one person has two children and another person has eight children, it doesn't mean the larger family deserves more.

If the Chinese choose to have 6 times as many people, they should have one-sixth as much per person. Count total emissions, not per capita. Pretty sure they have surpassed America in GDP and GHG as a whole.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:31 | 4767447 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

After all, Isn't this the stumbling block?

BTW, I was not taking sides, only pointing out the facts. 

Out of curiousity, why does the West get to have higher emissions per person? Are we special or superior in some way?

 

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:44 | 4767485 Matt
Matt's picture

" why does the West get to have higher emissions per person?"

Because we choose to have fewer people. If you have two islands, and both are 1000 acres, and one island has 100 people and the other has 1000 people, then the people on one island get 10 acres each and the others have 1 acre each.

If you choose to have more people for the amount of land, you choose to be poorer per capita. The choice is made at the society level, but is an accumulation of everybodies personal choices.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:54 | 4767524 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Ok, how does that stack up with Europe and the population density there?

So you are saying that normalization should be land area then?

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 17:17 | 4767735 Matt
Matt's picture

It is also not about East-West, its about lattitude. People in India and the Caribbean can get food and survive with much less energy input than people closer to the poles.

As for how we should deal with it, I doubt there will be any reasonable political solution that will result in anywhere near equitible distribution of how much energy people can use. I expect the rich to consume a lot and the poor to consume less and less as energy gets more expensive.

 

EDIT: Europe is 40% the size of North America, so if we are going with landmass, they should have a cap 40% as much as ours. However, I don't think deserts should be counted the same as forests, etc.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:52 | 4767515 Relentless101
Relentless101's picture

Because we have much more land mass per capita, even excluding Alaska. Total emmission for a given land mass matters much more than per capita because land mass (fucking trees and other plant life) are the most efficient (cleanest and renewable) way of eliminating CO2. Therefore even our most dense cities have insanely clear air compare to that shit in Beijing. 

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:55 | 4767528 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Becasue the EPA mandated scrubbers and the like in the 70's....

You clearly have forgotten what the air was like in the '60s, if you were even alive then...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 17:06 | 4767743 Matt
Matt's picture

Catalytic convertoers on cars, no more leaded gas. So many useful improvements so we don't live in a toxic hellhole. I'd love to see someone show how the free market would have solved those issues.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 18:07 | 4767890 Relentless101
Relentless101's picture

It wouldn't have. That should really be one of the ownly roles of government, i.e. ensuring the true cost of something, such as polution, is realized on the supply side. There was and still is no cost incentive for curbing polution.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:50 | 4767301 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Carbon taxes will disproportionately affect the poor...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:51 | 4767310 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Not revenue neutral ones...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:13 | 4767386 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

I have never in my life seen a revenue neutral anything...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:17 | 4767397 Matt
Matt's picture

If you are poor, why do you need to drive a car? Tax at the well would be the most efficient and most evenly distributed way to apply a carbon tax, but you could just raise royalties without calling it a carbon tax and it would do the same thing.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 16:41 | 4767685 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Electricity generation comes from what Matt?

(Coal and gas primarily)

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 17:03 | 4767738 Matt
Matt's picture

Ok, lets say a carbon tax doubles the cost of electricity. Tiered billing: give everyone 500 KwH per month free, then $0.25 per KwH from 500 to 1500, then $0.50/KwH above that, based off a current price average of $0.11.

That way, everyone can have the power they need to live and store food, etc, and excess consumption from things like air conditioning, electric clothes dryer, dish washer, etc cost since they are luxuries that can be replaced by hand labour.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 17:52 | 4767863 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Power perhaps... but jobs?

Not.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:58 | 4767331 InflammatoryResponse
InflammatoryResponse's picture

ROFLMAO FLAK,

 

what is made up BS about the climate ALREADY fills up textbooks across the country.

Your inability to grasp that the most of the screeching about the climate are all from people who stand to benefit from said screeching.

 

carbon trading? algore is all about that because he thinks he's going to get a bit of that action

 

the dolt hasn't realized that the chinese could swoop in and buy ALL of the @#$#@$@ carbon forsale.  we'd have to shut down our economy.  but no worries, super algore and his high mileage private jet will save us right?

 

before or AFTER the hurricanes that were supposed to be tearing us a new one exist?

 

total BS flak,  I have some swampland in alaska I'd be happy to sell you.

 

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:32 | 4767449 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Crawl back into your hole troll...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 16:44 | 4767694 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Soliloquy ?

(Sol=sun ;)

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 17:26 | 4767798 falak pema
falak pema's picture

I guess it'll take the whole of Antarctica to convince some; those who lack con...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 17:19 | 4767774 Slave
Slave's picture

What you don't know:

wattsupwiththat.com

aka A LOT. You're deliberately kept in the dark and yet you think you're enlightened. What a fucking joke.

Sat, 05/17/2014 - 15:23 | 4769690 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Both articles though relatively similar were excellent reads BTW...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:24 | 4767215 Relentless101
Relentless101's picture

Much truth and it's been evident for years. Take a Prius for instance. Very good mpg for marketing purposes. Allows all the smug assholes in the world to feel like they are better than all other becuase "they care more about the environment". If you take into account the amount CO2 that it takes to build and distribute these fucking things, it is absolutely laughable. Not to mention that batteries are pretty difficult to fully recycle. People never dig, they just go along and trust whatever they hear from the media and advertisers. Therefore, in my non-expert opinion, we are doomed.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 14:50 | 4767305 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

That argument is demonstrably false...

Next please...

But you are correct in that we are doomed...

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:00 | 4767346 Relentless101
Relentless101's picture

Please demonstrate. Not being a dick. If you can prove the Prius is net gain for the environment, great. I don't think you can though.

Fri, 05/16/2014 - 15:05 | 4767363 maskone909
maskone909's picture

this persons responses usually involve

a)insulting the posters intelligence

b)stating wild fasle claims as though they were fact

c)over use of the word "Grasp" to insinuate that he is in some way superior than his opponent.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!