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"Never Forget"

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Sat, 05/24/2014 - 17:07 | 4791790 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

I'll never forget Good Old Whats-his-name.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 17:16 | 4791812 lester1
lester1's picture

Lets be honest here. The VA has a backlog because the GOP thinks Veterans needs "cost too much" and block any additional funding to reduce the backlog.


GOP motto is send them to war because they volunteered but when they come home we don't know you.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 17:21 | 4791822 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

Bush's fault!!!
Um...Reagan's fault!

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 17:49 | 4791871 NYPoke
NYPoke's picture

The VA was worse in the 70s.  I've heard a lot of input on this, for the most part, the VA is doing a good job.  The locations at current Bases seem to be well run.  It is the others that seem to have most of the problems.


Still, I'm sure Obama will trash the good locations, to match the bad ones.  Only way Liberals know how to "fix" things.


I give it a 35% chance, as of now, they close it all & hand out Obamacare Vouchers.  Not likely yet, but the White House HAS to have already talked about it.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 17:51 | 4791881 Looney
Looney's picture

Meanwhile, Iran executes 4 bankers for fraud, 2 received life sentences and 33 got 25 year jail term.

And how many bankers went to prison or faced the firing squad in the US/EU? Of course, “they” would hate us for our FREEDOM!

Exceptional, aren’t we? ;-)


Sat, 05/24/2014 - 18:09 | 4791915 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

we're all just spokes in a big wheel. we just have a little bit moar knowledge of how to protect ourselves and hope for a chance in the future for Freedom.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 19:02 | 4792014 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Semper Fi!


I'm so conflicted.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 22:20 | 4792444 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

War is a Racket.  Major General Smedley Butler.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 23:24 | 4792552 jimmytorpedo
jimmytorpedo's picture

If people didn't fight, there would be no war.

I know I'll get downvoted, but if you join the army so you can go kill strangers you have no beef with, you deserve everything you get.

Or don't get.

Protecting your 'country' is just soccer hooliganism with cooler stuff.

War is just failed diplomacy, learn to negotiate.

Unless you're trying to get into my wife's pants, then it's war.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 00:37 | 4792652 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

jimmy, your view, unfortunately, is what would be considered utopian.

But be that as it may, there is a deeper game going on here I feel.

Get enough vets angry enough, most of them are armed, get them start marching again...

Basically a git-em-riled up and smoke 'em out kind of thing.

No other reason for such open and rather vile blundering.

All part of the plan. Caring for "veterans" is precisely the reason Lao Tszu said there were no winners in war...

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 01:13 | 4792686 813kml
813kml's picture

Interesting post on living the 3G life, I was expecting something regarding cell phone download speeds.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 01:50 | 4792721 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

;-) The 813Kbps life?

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 02:14 | 4792740 813kml
813kml's picture

More like 813Mbps, I prefer life in the fast lane.


Sun, 05/25/2014 - 02:59 | 4792781 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Nice 813k.

In India, 813 MBPS is a dream one may as well not even launch on. No point. Never going to happen.

I live on the sub 1 MBps fast lane here :-)


Sun, 05/25/2014 - 07:35 | 4792894 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Our Obamacare trolls don't seem to know what to do with themselves....come see me in a couple years.


We're all in the VA system now.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 08:25 | 4792933 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

no one should join up to die for corrupt leadership, corrupt banksters, corrupt religious leaders, corrupt idiology, for the pleasure of paying the tax man, for the .gov cheese..Jesus was wrong about giving unto caesar what is caesar's...and we all pay for this mistake this lie every time the likes of a Johnson,nixon, clinton, bush, obuma -Akhomenini,Popes, kings, call.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 09:27 | 4792998 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yeah, there's a whole thread full of Chinese & Russian anti-war types on the naval drills thread.

The cognitive dissonance is amazing ;-)

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 10:03 | 4793058 BigJim
BigJim's picture

 ..Jesus was wrong about giving unto caesar what is caesar's...

Nah. Caesar was just a large-scale thief who had no clear title to anything, so giving unto Caesar what is Caesar's would have involved giving him nothing at all...

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 13:11 | 4793456 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

I think that statement was meant to inform folks that they did not have a duty to start one-man, sure loser, revolutions at the expense community and family.  

You've got to pick your battles, focus on the big picture, and the end-game.  No system lasts forever and timing is everything.   In the biblical sense, that meant not bringing the hammer down on yourself and you neighbors unnecessarily.  That would not be a successful long-term survival strategy for the tribe.  Let's not forget, that ultimately, Rome converted.

For us, it means the same thing.  Prep-on and nurture the resiliance of your local community.   

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 16:40 | 4793851 hot sauce technician
hot sauce technician's picture


But what if you belong to a community? And that community is small enough to be "homogenous" yet large enough to be a "nation"? Wouldn't there then be legitimacy for defensive wars? Many cases of culturally inferior nations/peoples fighting off colonizers. Ethiopians beating the Italians comes to mind. No banker interests there.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 02:49 | 4792775 Serenity Now
Serenity Now's picture

The world doesn't work that way, jimmy.  Unfortunately, your enemy gets a vote.  You can't go through life voting "present." 

The problem with telling the rest of the world to go to hell is that it WILL go to hell, and then hell will come lapping at your shores.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 10:07 | 4793070 BigJim
BigJim's picture

It'll come lapping at your shores a damn sight quicker if you go round lapping at theirs. Joining the US (or any) military would be alright if they were a genuine defence force, but they're not - they're an offensive force that is the final enforcer of our anglo-american financial empire.

Mon, 05/26/2014 - 04:33 | 4794854 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

Think about it - in the old days the oligarch used to throw children into the volcano or bleed them dry at the top of the pyramid and sell their meat for profit. Then, one day, they must've thought that this was a waste of life.Let's convince them to go out and conquer other peoples for us, the oligarchs, so that the oligarchs can asset strip and oppress even more people!

The feudal lords that used to show up at a person's cottage and rape the daughters of the home figured out there was an easier to "skin a cat," as it were.
They created a debt based monetary system to impoverish people and a media system to promote their own image.

Now those daughter seek out feudal lords and screw them for free!
And if they don't, one of the impoverished daughters will sell their body in order to eat another day.


Evil as hell, but brilliant.

The consciousness level that brought us to this point won't ever get us out of this bind.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 04:38 | 4792814 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

This is Memorial Day Weekend.

This weekend the fucking Government, Partisanship, Rep/Dem, and everything else can go take a [please] quiet shit in the corner.

This Memorial Day I want to recognize a man I've known my entire life of 54 years.

Raymond Aiken, aka Uncle Ray to myself and my sisters. Veteran of WWII, Korea and Viet Nam as a pilot. He was inducted into the Library of Congress's WWII archive two weeks ago with a live interview (one that I'm looking forward to hearing because this guy is a real character and is so admirably full of bullshit).

To Uncle Ray, we met in Hawaii in the early 60's after my first sister was born, and you've had a lifetime friend and 'family' member ever since that meeting. I remember you living with us in Hawaii while Joey was there.

You are the kindest, sweetest, gentlest, and most honorable man I've known in my life other than my dad, Uncle Troy and stepdad, Joe. You are a true uncle.

I'm honored to have known you. And look forward to seeing you Monday

  And none of this denigrates my Dad's ten or so years in Japan, Korea, Thailand, or Viet Nam.  I hardly knew him as a kid.  He retired as a Senior Master Sargeant in the USAF while my mom, who actually DID wear combat boots, retired as a Chief Master Sargeant,  I got hustled out of the Marines as a Private First Class after a training injury.   My Uncle Ray should be the fulcrum of the rejection of Federal conntrol
 Fed Fl
Sun, 05/25/2014 - 07:23 | 4792888 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

Good on ya, OldPhart.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 08:14 | 4792924 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

When once we had guys like "Ray" Aiken to look up to, now we have guys like "Clay" Aiken.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 03:56 | 4792815 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

Sorry, fat finger effect.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 21:16 | 4792311 Supafly
Supafly's picture

We're free to fuck the little guy.  Kind of like what was done to the Native Americans, and it's so whitewashed, I don't even know what they called themselves before.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 07:25 | 4792889 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

They called themselves the enemy of the tribe next door, honkeylips...same as same.

Go stick a feather in your ass and weep for the noble savage.


Sat, 05/24/2014 - 21:51 | 4792372 Sambo
Sambo's picture

In some Islamic sects accruing interest on money borrowed is considered a sin.

Bankers have a better chance of meeting the gallows in Islamic countries.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 02:27 | 4792751 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

I am sure they get around it by saying I give you a loan I get a percentage of the company and profits, same thing in the end as interest.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 11:12 | 4793212 DYS
DYS's picture

Actually, taking  percentage of profit is NOTHING like interest on a loan.   Interest on a loan compounds itself, leading to spiraling, out of control debt.    Profit sharing is a flat rate which does not vary nor compound over time.   It's the compounding of interest which is the huge scam.


Einstein said:  

“Compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world. He who understands it, earns it ... he who doesn't ... pays it.”
Sun, 05/25/2014 - 03:04 | 4792787 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

the muslims are/were not alone in this.  it's just that they are practicing their religion more fervently now than is the "west", partly as a way to distinguish themselves from the largely christian/jewish colonial powers that have plagued them for the last few centuries.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 07:55 | 4792910 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

In some Judaic sects, they believe it's "God's Will" that they can dry hump everyone else on the entire fucking planet in every single way possible. Something about being most favored people with the Big Man, and what not.

Just sayin...

Anyway, speaking of memorials....

Her name was the USS Liberty
Her name was the USS Liberty
Her name was the USS Liberty
Her name was the USS Liberty
Her name was the USS Liberty

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 12:14 | 4793342 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Poor human judgment. The computer and lack of contacting the plane on different channels resulted to the same USS Liberty mess.

Iran Air Flight 655 (Mistaken Identity)!! Pt-2/4



Sun, 05/25/2014 - 17:07 | 4793902 hot sauce technician
hot sauce technician's picture

Good morning. Bedouin government, the sum total of it, amounts to "does it pay for me to be violent?". It's individualist anarchism without the morals. Or maybe not. But something in that direction.

Oh yeh, and the Arabs were never really city dwellers until they left the Arabian peninsula, fyi.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 21:55 | 4792385 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Drove thru a VA property today - NO GUNS ALLOWED ON PROPERTY signs everywhere. I loled. Winning!

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 02:30 | 4792607 RichardParker
RichardParker's picture


Sun, 05/25/2014 - 09:47 | 4793031 TruthHunter
TruthHunter's picture

"Meanwhile, Iran executes 4 bankers for fraud"

As bad as Iran is, could it be possible that they are better than the US?

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 11:17 | 4793223 BigJim
BigJim's picture

There are plenty of crimes worthy of the death penalty, but I've yet to see a single criminal justice system anywhere that I'd trust to mete it out only to those who were deserve it.

Allowing your (inevitably corrupt) government to kill criminals is just asking for irrevocable injustices to be carried out. A person wrongly imprisoned with a life sentence can be given some compensation when/if it is discovered they were wrongly convicted.

But someone who has already been dispatched by the hangman? Not so much.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 09:58 | 4793048 tonyw
tonyw's picture

i was wondering what freedoms we were hated for, now i understand we have the freedom to rob as many otehrs as possible - only if you're too big to jail of course not so much for J6P

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 10:38 | 4793123 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

I hope this helps see their bigger picture.

Rothschilds Want Iran's Banks

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 18:02 | 4791900 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

Treat vets at hospitals near where they live. Why have them travel so far? The VA has to look into its crystal ball to determine where to build and what to build. They still can't cover the territory adequately enough. Eliminate the waste and quit building these facilities. It would be like medicare or medicaid. Just cut the check to the service provider.

I know that there are probably some services where having separate facilities would make sense like mental health. I heard one theory on this board where VA medical is used as bribery to keep vets quite. Cross the Gov and we won't treat. Vets might have secrets? Their medical conditions would horrify the public?

Maybe it is just a government program that can't be curtailed due to the usual corruption and so forth.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 18:47 | 4791983 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"It would be like medicare or medicaid. Just cut the check to the service provider."

Thats really all that needs to happen and you don't need a mammoth bureaucracy for that. All it should take is to show the card...unless of course they setup some glitchy website for payments ;-)


Sat, 05/24/2014 - 22:06 | 4792412 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

That's so damned dead-on I wish I could give you more than one up-arrow.  

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 23:27 | 4792540 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Actually, Miller is taking baby steps in that direction. But why have an "emergency" to implement such a thing, is what I say.

Make it permanent...

I liken all this to old men starting wars that young men are forced to fight in...then, coming home...being arrested for drinking under the age of 21, that of course, is ALSO what old men have passed laws about.

So apparently, "our masters of the universe" have decided you're old enough to DIE FOR THEM...but if you live, don't even think about celebrating the fact you made it out alive.

Yes, makes all the sense in the world ;-)

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 08:58 | 4792960 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Mothers Against Drunk Drivers, there is another co-opted org started with the best of intentions (who could argue with allowing drunks behind the wheel careening off guardrails anyways?) only to evolve into nanny-police-state-zero-tolerance nonsense. Well, thats how they strip liberty away, with the "very best of intentions"...fucking assholes.

I'm not sure if anyone even having a couple glasses of wine with dinner is "legal" to drive anywhere, anymore.

And while I'm on this rant (in the defense of our youth) I want to point out something else. Straying slightly OT but I did notice this ridiculous concept of prohibiting high school dropouts from getting a drivers license until they're 18.

So the idea is to keep them in school (which they hate or are failing at) and make it as hard as hell to begin supporting themselves by having the independence of a vehicle in order to get back & forth to work? I bet if they could vote at 15 or 16 this idea would have never been be floated.

Let that be a lesson of their statist-logic my young liberty loving ZH readers, they will screw you as long as you let them and proclaim it as good for you as they wipe themselves get on the bus, on its schedule (not yours) and pay your damned taxes, thousands of government pensions are riding you ;-)

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 12:44 | 4793419 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

"thats how they strip liberty away"

I get the sinking feeling that the Republic has already been lost when I look around at this shit show today. People are not only accepting in losing their liberties and God given rights, they are actually cheering it on. Disgusting.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 18:45 | 4794096 nmewn
nmewn's picture

It is disgusting.

The sad thing is many are convinced that the motivations are well meaning & pure. I thought this way for a long time as well, that it was just IGNORANCE on their part but well meaning, the intentions were pure but stupid as far as I was concerned.

Its not.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 17:21 | 4793928 Moon Pie
Moon Pie's picture

Agree NM...and to go a bit further of topic:  What about the establishment endorsement and encouragement of all sorts of mind and rational altering drugs being prescribed for kids on up through adulthood and beyond.  Whenever I'm on the freeway, I'm wondering how many of the kids or adults driving around me at 70MPH are dosed up on who knows what?  Or forgot to take their shit and are withdrawing...or double/triple dosing?

These kids killing each other, becoming more and more cynical...moms and dads's all about a drug replacing individualism and responsibility...with horrifying effects yes...but FURTHER eroding personal and public liberty.

I guarantee there will be no mention of this sadly crazed kid killed six people out here in Cali...about his prescriptions or treatments over years and years that warped him....just like the responsibility put at the feet of BIG PHARMA.....yet another LIBERTY SUCKING TOOL!!  Right away the father came out railing against the NRA...when the kid killed the first three with a knife.  It takes a certain level of crazed evil that no gun can replicate.  

Things are off the rails in a big way.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 19:26 | 4794183 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Had one of those "subversive discussions" around the breakroom table the other day.

I was shocked that most of them didn't know that 99% of the mass killers were on legally prescribed, mind altering drugs OR had seen a shrink. Then when I stated the obvious (you can't mass prescribe mind altering drugs to kids who's brains are still developing) you could almost see little light bulbs appearing over their heads.

Then throw in the latest & greatest "good health through pharmacology" and all the rest of the advertised bullshit pushed (from statins to viagra) by corporations in alliance with .gov and you've got the makings of a truly toxic stew in the blood streams of everyone.

Try to eat right, keep "vices" to a minimum (oh yeah, I know about my and just try to be normal. Once upon a time the doctor would just X is a little high or Y is a little low, we'll just keep an eye on it. Now everyone is bombarded with if you're five pounds overweight you're gonna drop dead from a heart attack tomorrow, here, take a pill!!!

Its stupid.

Here ya go...

Conclusion: Current evidence does not clearly support cardiovascular guidelines that encourage high consumption of polyunsaturated fatty acids and low consumption of total saturated fats.

Everybody...chill...have that BLT or a grilled cheese with REAL (audible gasp) BUTTER...its not going to kill you. And just realize everything you've ever been told is either a lie OR is subject to revision at some later date...because the people telling you are fucking brilliant and know everything ;-)

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 20:23 | 4792191 ThroxxOfVron
ThroxxOfVron's picture

"Treat vets at hospitals near where they live."


ACA/Obamacare is a County by County For Profit Monopoly construct; the 'praetorian'  class of corporate mercs deserve no better than the median services of those they supposedly serve. 

It's a job and nothing more or less.  Just a job.  don't like it: get another fucking job.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 20:27 | 4792199 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

I am suggesting dismantling the VA. First step is stop building million square foot hospitals when we seem to have enough of those all competing against each other in the private sector.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 23:39 | 4792578 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

The VA is exactly what single-payer health care will look like in this country when they finally jam it down our throats. I find it amusing that one "solution" I hear being proposed is to give the vets Medicare/Medicaid vouchers, or some such. Oh, great-- as if that system isn't completely fucked up.

Anyway, all part of the Hegelian one step backwards, two steps forward dynamic. They'll get rid of the VA system to "harmonize" it with Medicare and/or Obamacare, then when those systems collapse, they'll put everyone on a glorified VA-type single payer system which will perform just about as well as you'd expect: terribly, with people dying from rationed service and neglect.

What a fucking joke.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 08:11 | 4792919 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

"Harmonize"... Love it! My bureaucratic, fortune 500 company is harmonizing our benefits so that all of the divisions and recent acquisitions have the same benefits. We are also moving to Paid Time Off instead of sick time/vacation time. Cost savings.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 09:32 | 4793006 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

As fucked up as medicaid might be, it often provides services far in excess of its private insurance counterparts...  and gaming the shit out of it is how the medical industry survives.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 01:22 | 4792697 PhysicalRealm
PhysicalRealm's picture

ThroxxOfVron said:  It's a job and nothing more or less.  Just a job.  don't like it: get another fucking job.

For guys who enlisted, you have a point.  What you're missing is all the guys still alive who were drafted into the Vietnam war, fucked over beyond belief, and didn't have any choice in the matter.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 05:10 | 4792851 effendi
effendi's picture

Not just the guys who were drafted had no choice. What about volunteers who were lied to? They might be men who joined the National Guards to provide disaster protection for their community only to later find that they are being sent to Iraq. Once there the length of their tour is increased from a few months to many months.

Or regular troops who end up getting Stop Loss extensions to their term of enlistment.

Lets face it, most who enlist are lied to about what army life is about and most of them are young, poor, uneducated, with few prospects and have never seen much of the world. The perfect dupes to sign on the bottom line a complex contract that makes them the property of Uncle Sam.

Mon, 05/26/2014 - 01:13 | 4794718 PhysicalRealm
PhysicalRealm's picture

effendi -- yes, but that's a different subject.  The guys who were forced to go to Vietnam against their will were not only fucked over by the US gov while there and after they got back, when the ones who lived through it returned they were screamed at and spat upon by the people they came home to.  It was a particularly ugly period of time . . . 

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 22:11 | 4792425 Idaho potato head
Idaho potato head's picture

Stop making sense would'ja.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 04:23 | 4792835 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

I'm in agreement.  If their card shows VET status, they should immediatey go to the head of the line at any medical facility in the country immediately.  They are the only ones that should be 'entitled' to 'socialized' medicine (In the sense that anything they need is provided automatically by the rest of us).

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 18:24 | 4791937 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

Come on if your dumb enough to SIGN up (waver all your rights , read the fucking contract) then you deserve what you get.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 19:02 | 4792013 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Sign up?  You mean like the vets who signed up for Vietnam?  I can't recall having been given a choice in the matter.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 19:10 | 4792028 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Well, yes, ....there were those who received invitations and "Greetings".  I think the last one volunteered at gun point in summer of 73'.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 22:06 | 4792415 2handband
2handband's picture

Right. The armed forces have been all-volunteer for a long, long time. This makes the soldiers 100% responsible for the effects of any operations they are involved with. The "support the troops not the war" meme is horseshit... if you're supporting the troops you're supporting the fuckin' war. This silliness along with the deification of military service (c'mon, turning common soldiers into heroes to be practically worshipped is worse than ludicrous) has been deliberately fostered to make effective war protest such as that which occurred during Vietnam virtually impossible. 

I don't exclude myself. I served the criminal oligarchs for four years during the nineties. I am deeply ashamed. 


Sat, 05/24/2014 - 22:50 | 4792481 Dadburnitpa
Dadburnitpa's picture


Did you purposefully kill or injure any innocent non-combatants? Were you dishonest? Did you steal from other service members? Did you lack personal integrity when dealing with peers, superiors or subordinates? Were you a slacker who caused others to do your job?  Were you corrupt? Were you a crony and a good old boy?  Did you abuse your rank or position of authority? Did you lie to conceal your fuckups? Did you fail to take responsibility for your actions?  Did you make excuses? Did you cheat to gain promotion or award? Did you fail to speak truth to power regardless of the consequences?  Did you falsify records or documents because you were lazy? Were you negligent? Did you misrepresent your position in the military to gain advantage in civilian business or personal relationships? Did your cowardice cause the death of another human being?

If you can answer "no" to all of the questions above, then you have no reason to be deeply ashamed.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 23:01 | 4792520 2handband
2handband's picture

Example: I was assigned to anderson afb, guam back in '96 and '97. We had a few b52s come to visit for a few days. One evening they launched, flew out to missile range of the iraqi border, and came back a fuck of a lot lighter. If you think the people who died, whether they were members of the iraqi military or civilians, was a threat to the security of the united states, you don't get what the us military is really for. And every man and woman serving on that base, withhout whom the mission could not have taken place, is responsible for those deaths.  Myself included.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 23:29 | 4792562 Dadburnitpa
Dadburnitpa's picture

During my 24 years in Naval aviation, every "missile range" I dropped ordnance on was a huge patch of desert or an expanse of ocean; 99.9999% of the time, the range is cleared and nobody gets killed.  Don't worry yourself over a few buffs that unloaded on some sand for a live-fire training mission or a demonstration of force.  The passion of your story didn't convince me. You still should answer those questions.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 00:03 | 4792609 kellycriterion
kellycriterion's picture

We must celebrate thugocracies at every opportunity because uh, well uh, they are at best necessary evils.

Cincinnatus is the ideal. Now we can't always have the ideal. We must make compromises. How far have we strayed from the ideal?

I like the Churchill quote. "a knew dark age made more terrible by perverted science" or something to that effect.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 00:14 | 4792630 kellycriterion
kellycriterion's picture

Btw fighting to defend yourself or those close to you is neither something to be proud or ashamed of. It's just a dirty job that needs doing. All the glamorization is just pandering and guilt and propaganda. Just more fantasy for the junkies.

Now defining self defense well..........

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 00:21 | 4792638 RichardParker
RichardParker's picture

It is almost as bad as the deification of professional athletes. 

I'm starting think these sociopath oligarchs actually have a pretty good sense of humor. 

How else can you possibly explain the deification of professional athletes by the media "bread and circus"?

Let's be honest here, how many of these athletes would be in prison if they weren't playing sports?  How many of them have a propensity for violence/drug abuse or becoming baby daddies?

On top of it all, they managed to brainwash the public nto subsidizing their arenas with local tax dollars and outrageous ticket prices.  It's brilliant...

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 01:10 | 4792685 MrPalladium
MrPalladium's picture

Professional sports have become the opiate of the middle class white male.

A stunning success in "social control" by the media oligarchs.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 01:30 | 4792705 Renewable Life
Renewable Life's picture

"Middle class white males" you must be joking, is that who you think watches NBA and NFL and buys all their shit to wear and worship over????

You better read a couple marketing reports on pro sports son, that shit is a whole lot bigger then "white males"!

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 01:37 | 4792712 MrPalladium
MrPalladium's picture

Ah yes, but for the non whites it is not the same sort of opiate at all.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 19:14 | 4792036 TuPhat
TuPhat's picture

Yes, Rocky, I signed up for Vietnam.  I was lucky and have lived to realize what a mistake that was.  I did not know at the time what the gov was up to.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 22:57 | 4792507 RichardENixon
RichardENixon's picture

Where you been hiding Rocky

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 20:22 | 4792186 CH1
CH1's picture

if your dumb enough to SIGN up... then you deserve what you get.

So, you never made a mistake at 18?

We deserve to die for a teenaged screw-up?

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 21:10 | 4792293 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Thats the thing, right there.

The GOVERNMENT made a promise, a contract, with the people who put their own ass on the line for it, the government. By draft or volunteer makes absolutely no difference, the terms of the contract were the same, if you make it out the other side, it will take care of you.

If this is now the worth of its promises & contracts, there is no government worth serving for.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 22:29 | 4792457 Parousia
Parousia's picture

My dad, still living at 93, fought in WWII as a Marine in the Pacific, flying corsairs.  What he describes as his military service and what my friends currently serving describe is night-and-day different.  If anything good comes out of this VA clusterfuck, it will be righteous indignation at the Government that said "trust us" to our young adults it sends all over the world to protect the freedoms it has already destroyed.  

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 23:54 | 4792600 nmewn
nmewn's picture

My dad was in the Pacific as well in WWII. He was not a combat soldier, he was support but he was trained like all the rest. He wound up behind a Browning machine gun facing a banzai charges and mom said he used to wake up screaming some nghts like he was still there.

It changed his life...and mine/ours (I was not even born yet)...for what he had to do, to survive.

To think that what he did, for a government that now looks on all of us as its enemies, as its combatants & serfs, to spy upon, to rule over, to distrust, to mock, to abuse, to milk and then dispose to realize all his efforts and anguish was in vain.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 00:48 | 4792665 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture


Sun, 05/25/2014 - 01:20 | 4792696 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture


Sun, 05/25/2014 - 01:35 | 4792706 MrPalladium
MrPalladium's picture

My dad enlisted before WWII and was transferred from the veterinary corps training cavalry horses to the medical corps a year before WWII started. He was sent to Labrador and inspected food shipments on their way to Britain and Russia. Ordinance tech sergeants inspected the weapons and ammo. A huge amount  amount was sent to Stalin's Russia all unknown to the American people. I can remember dad saying that his commanding officers were furious and would rant about how we were supplying and fighting on the wrong side. I never considered Labrador a part of Europe but then it was part of the British crown colony of Newfoundland, not then a part of Canada, so he was awarded a campaign ribbon for United States Army of Occupation, Europe, the same one that I earned some 27 years later for service as a tethered goat on the neuclear trip wire along with the rest of my comrades in the Berlin brigade.

Of course the U.S. liberated the communists interned in Buchenwald - some 30 thousand of them in good health - and put them in charge of West Germany while we imposed upon Germany a constitution that prohibits nationalist parties, candidates and speech. It is a sovereign state in name only as we still have a quarter million men stationed there to make sure they do not misbehave. BTW my ancestry is 100% English FWIW.

When war is not a racket, it is much worse than a racket. It is a murderous mechanism for enslaving nations and cultures while proclaiming them liberated and free.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 09:34 | 4793011 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

To think that what he did, for a government that now looks on all of us as its enemies, as its combatants & serfs, to spy upon, to rule over, to distrust, to mock, to abuse, to milk and then dispose to realize all his efforts and anguish was in vain.

News flash...  it was no different then...  only a different shade of control

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 10:05 | 4793064 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yes, the patriotism.

They've done a wonderful job of revealing just what that means to THEM. Now its in your face dictatorial type shit, very patriotic and inspiring, right? Blind obedience to complete idiots has never been my bag or what I consider patriotism. My allegiance has always been to you and us, never them, its what makes up a country, the people. So I guess they're right to some degree to look on us as the enemy within.

Glad we finally got that sorted out ;-)

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 00:18 | 4792634 Lanka
Lanka's picture

My father also served in the Pacific during WWII, in New Guinea.  For six decades, he wanted to erase his memories of war.  The glories of war are best told by the non-combatants. 

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 03:43 | 4792811 eternitarian
eternitarian's picture

This is not the first time there's been a VA boodgoggle.  Sometime back in the mid-to-late 1950s, Life Magazine did one of their famous pictorials about veterans hospitals.  Those pictures have stayed with me for over 50 years.  And then there was this: and

No more lobotomies -- the government "only" wants to take their guns now.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 10:12 | 4793077 GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

"The GOVERNMENT made a promise, a contract, with the people who put their own ass on the line for it..."

True. The government also made promises to tax payers with social security and other programs, the people who work for it and the benefits they shall receive for their work, foreign countries, holders of its debt, indigenous peoples, students, etc... Why should promises made to vets carry so much more weight than all those other promises?

"...there is no government worth serving for."

We have a Bingo. I live around a ton of military folks and their sense of "serving their country" is beyond my comprehension. It comes off as more of a self delusion to justify their membership in the biggest gang around with the biggest array of death toys in the world.

In all honesty many enlisted military folks I encounter seem to have a prisoner mentality in that they just have to show up and be told their orders. No need to think yourself through the matrix of life on the outside. Just play the game inside the system to your best ability and get the best deal for yourself (military wives are especially good at milking everything they can from the system). Just like prisoners have to do while doing their time within the confines of a strictly structured system.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 13:13 | 4793462 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Plus one George.

"Why should promises made to vets carry so much more weight than all those other promises?"

Well, I guess there is no easy way to describe it, it means different things to different people based on what they think government is or should be and what a warrior is. Whether you or anyone wishes it were not so is irrelevent, they are there.

Probably the closest to my opinion is:

People Sleep Peacefully in Their Beds at Night Only Because Rough Men Stand Ready to Do Violence on Their Behalf.

And the source:

Again, people can argue over the finer points of they should have been there...but not over there...or doing this but not that...but they went and did what they were told to do by "our leaders" and many didn't come back.

Its a little different than just stumbling out of bed late for work, no ones going to kill you over that ;-)

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 14:26 | 4793627 GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

In other words, assholes exist (the author you quoted used the words rough men) and we need assholes on our side to keep them from kicking our asses. Possibly. There are upper echelon assholes who are not rough men (yet who are assholes), yet they know how to rile up the rough men assholes to have them do damage on other for the upper echelon assholes gain. We have been told that everything is in  dog-eat-dog state at all times and only the y the military machine allows us to have any peace whatsoever. Yet the folks who believe this also tell me the banks are lying to us about money, history, and everything else we might think is true. Why should this same statement coming from be really true, but that other stuff is bullshit? There are many ways to try to understand it.

Adding another reality based insight, how many cultures throughout history had standing armies? Something the much praised founding fathers recommended against.

How do standing armies fit into the libertarian scheme of things when free market solutions are sought as the highest standard of human achievement?

How do the government hating folks on here see armies existing in their ideal world? Do "rough men" disappear at that point in time? Private armies?

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 17:47 | 4793984 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Far be it of me to crawl around inside the heads of men such as Orwell or Kipling, though I'm quite sure every libertarian (pacifist or not) wrestles with the truth of what they said, in their own way.

But I do know this, there are many ideologies, societies, cultures and nations who don't have the luxury of entertaining or arguing over such high minded thoughts like we do here.

And I can assure you, there are rough men standing ready to do violence on their behalf as well ;-)

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 21:53 | 4792378 Dadburnitpa
Dadburnitpa's picture


 You publish this as your Zero Hedge Biography:

"I like horseback riding and tennis , also I just take long quite walks in the wood, or just to soak in the bath with enya playing and candles lit ."

And you think a kid signing up to serve in the military is dumb.  

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 02:22 | 4792746 Pareto
Pareto's picture

+100  that there is fucking funny!!

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 04:10 | 4792828 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Having seen Abitdodgies posts over the years, I think he is being totally facetious there with his profile.


Sat, 05/24/2014 - 20:20 | 4792180 CH1
CH1's picture

I've heard a lot of input on this, for the most part, the VA is doing a good job.

Definitely NOT the same input I get.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 21:40 | 4792353 bjfish
Sat, 05/24/2014 - 17:22 | 4791823 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

GFY Lester, it's not just the GOP.  It's been both parties for many generations.

You've graduated from dumbass class with a PHdee.  The red/blue paradigm is well worn and found to be full of shit.  Two heads, same snake.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 17:54 | 4791888 Looney
Looney's picture

...Two heads, same snake.

or... One snake, one head, two assholes?  ;-)


Sat, 05/24/2014 - 18:02 | 4791903 zeroheckler
zeroheckler's picture

no head - two assholes


Sat, 05/24/2014 - 19:10 | 4792027 mt paul
mt paul's picture

snake crawling 

up it's own asshole


fiat alchemy symbol 

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 18:25 | 4791943 fencejumper
fencejumper's picture

Well said & completely agree, CK! Those of us who focus on partisanship have been divided and conquered. We need to find common ground and unite against the true enemy: the Central Bank Oligarchs and Warmongers worldwide.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 18:40 | 4791968 knukles
knukles's picture

Thank you Col.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 20:56 | 4792270 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Thanks for the comments guys.  I just call it like I see it.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 21:51 | 4792375 Stroke
Stroke's picture

That's all anyone can ask

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 18:28 | 4791942 edotabin
edotabin's picture

Yes, Lester, let's be honest. There was never any intention of remembering them. They were used and abused. Sure a few trumpets and and couple of wreaths look good on TV. They are also cheap and require minimal effort. Everyone else is left to carry the actual burden (i.e. the wounded, devastated families etc.) As usual, there is a great void where the rubber meets the road.

In case you haven't noticed, everything is a complete let down, a lie, a scam. It's all one big fucking show designed to take advantage of emotions.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 18:44 | 4791976 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

We are all here to be used by those in power. We ARE the livestock.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 20:24 | 4792193 CH1
CH1's picture

Which is why I keep saying, Stop Obeying Them. Stop playing their game.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 19:30 | 4792075 g'kar
g'kar's picture

"The VA's budget has been exploding, even as the number of veterans steadily declines. From 2000 to 2013, outlays nearly tripled, while the population of veterans declined by 4.3 million."


Throwing money at the problem is not working at the VA either.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 20:13 | 4792171 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Hey those VA workers need their free healthcare and pensions too right? 

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 23:42 | 4792582 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Plus, I'm sure there's no waste, fraud, or corruption...right???

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 03:03 | 4792784 mrpxsytin
mrpxsytin's picture

They were dumb enough to invade other people's countries in the name of 'freedom' and 'democracy'. They were also dumb enough to believe that their loving government would be there to look after them for the rest of their lives. Is there anything these vets aren't dumb enough to believe?! 

Seriously, you thought that you would be rewarded for killing people? Wow. 

I hate to see the vets suffer. But really, if you want to improve your lives then you need to find out why you are suffering. Find out why and make the change. Do something to help future young men avoid the mistakes you have made. 

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 02:58 | 4792780 Serenity Now
Serenity Now's picture

g'kar, Thanks for the facts.  They hardly ever make it into a thread these days.  

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 14:05 | 4793587 g'kar
g'kar's picture

Yer welcome

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 03:04 | 4792786 Serenity Now
Serenity Now's picture

The VA budget goes up, while the number of veterans goes down. 

That didn't stop Nancy Pelosi from implying that it's all Bush's fault for starting a war and not anticipating the INCREASE in veterans.  

What a liar.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 04:11 | 4792829 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

I firmly agree, there is a peaceful non-violent way to resolve arguments.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 14:06 | 4793588 g'kar
g'kar's picture

Yeah, the trendlines don't favor her baldface lie.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 19:51 | 4792133 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Nothing new here.

Governments are cheap bastards if they can get away with it.

My dad served in the Royal Navy (HMS Warspite).

Was damaged for life and was entitled to a disability pension for 40 years before he found out (by chance) that he was entitled to it. Government wouldn't back-date though.

His death was at least partly due to WW2.

Saved UK gov a fortune.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 21:21 | 4792318 WeNeedaRealGovt
WeNeedaRealGovt's picture

ZH...Nothing but a buch of Repub-FauxNews lovers masquerading as open minded patriots.  

Most of you voted tqice for "W" and will continue to vote NeoCon.

Obama and Dems suck because they are owned.  But you guys suck because you just re-vote in GOP, just like the rest of Faux News viewers you share a beer with.


Sat, 05/24/2014 - 21:47 | 4792366 edotabin
edotabin's picture

Without having looked, I say there is no way you are a member for more than a week or two. Keep reading. In a rather short period of time you too will understand how off target your comment is.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 22:52 | 4792498 RichardENixon
RichardENixon's picture

I looked. One week

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 03:01 | 4792782 Serenity Now
Serenity Now's picture

One week.  You nailed it.  

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 00:41 | 4792657 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

I think you may be on the wrong site. This is not Yahoo News.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 08:28 | 4792672 edotabin
edotabin's picture

lol.... however, I must say the comment sections are getting better slowly.  Even on Yahoo you see some comments that hold their feet to the fire. It is nothing like here and other "dedicated" sites but you can tell "some natives are getting restless".

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 09:11 | 4792975 g'kar
g'kar's picture

"Nothing but a buch of Repub-FauxNews lovers masquerading as open minded patriots."


Al Qaeda terrorists at Guantanamo treated better than our vets


"roughly 150 fellow jihadists at Gitmo have approximately 100 doctors, nurses and health care personnel assigned to them."

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 22:59 | 4792517 StateofFraud
StateofFraud's picture

Yes, it's always more funding that is needed, not accountability. There was plenty of $ for bonuses, of course.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 23:25 | 4792556 Dutch
Dutch's picture

Noticed quite a few new verbose Democrat trolls on this site trashing the GOP in the last week or so. ZH is getting the hits, so the administration has set its minions to work.

Of course, the red side and the blue side are really the same side, as far as this site is concerned, and as far as how the American public is actually treated by TPTB. Let the trolls play in the ZH sandbox, my cat can bury them after a while.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 02:01 | 4792733 401K of Dooom
401K of Dooom's picture

Where is your evidence?  What legislation was not passed to alleviate the backlog of patients or expand the facilities of the VA?  This is not new as they have been criticized before.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 02:15 | 4792741 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

I'm sorry, Lester,

But using the Dems own criteria, IT'S Obama's Fault !!!

Hey, EVERYTHING that happens on this administrations watch>

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 02:45 | 4792773 Serenity Now
Serenity Now's picture


Yes, let's be honest here.  If you really wanted to be honest, you would retract your entire statement.  Funding for the VA has gone up exponentially over the years, and it hasn't helped one bit.  You stupid liberals couldn't make an honest statement if your life depended on it.

Obama campaigned on making the vets pay for their own post-injury treatments, and yet you're still drinking the kool aid.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 10:02 | 4793057 Government need...
Government needs you to pay taxes's picture

Good to see the progbots are now active on ZH.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 10:06 | 4793061 GardenWeasel
GardenWeasel's picture

@Lester1 -  The Democratic president and Senate for the last 5 years can manage Obamacare, wars all over Africa and the Middle East, and give hundreds of millions of dollars to the UAW, Solyndra and the like but can't take care of the veterans?  and you blame it on the Republicans??  Let's be honest here,  you should call the Guiness Book because you are the biggest FUCKING RETARD the world has ever seen.  

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 10:16 | 4793080 drstrangelove73
drstrangelove73's picture

I've worked in 3 VA hospitals in 3 states.Those associated with university hospitals are a little better,because they are staffed and run pretty much by medical students and house officers who are trying to do a good job.The rest are staffed by FMG's and various retreads who couldn't cut it in the private sector.They are routinely behind in technology and awash in a sea of stultifying red tape and bureaucratic hogwash.You may get the care you need there,if you are lucky,but even then it will be a day late and a dollar short.
It is government healthcare.The government cannot do these things well.Do you like government housing?Do you like the post Office?The DMV?The beneficiaries of the system,and taxpayers,too would be FAR better off if they mothballed the entire expensive system and gave them vouchers.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 10:26 | 4793101 oklaboy
oklaboy's picture

spoke by a true peace actavist who never served.

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 11:48 | 4793306 Doowleb
Doowleb's picture

The 85 Billion per month being printed by Obama's minions can't find any VA hospitals to fund? Except for the millions in employee bonuses?

Obama has ...Oh wait a puppy!

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 12:24 | 4793379 Too Big 2
Too Big 2's picture

lester1, this is the wrong place for you as you are confused or just ignorant of facts.  The red and blue teams are BOTH equally at fault for all that ails this once great country.  Go play in another sandbox. 

Sun, 05/25/2014 - 12:32 | 4793391 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture


Sat, 05/24/2014 - 17:21 | 4791826 Deathrips
Deathrips's picture

It was a lie from the beginning...the soldiers were supposed to die...not collect benifits, right?




Sat, 05/24/2014 - 17:52 | 4791882 caustixoid
caustixoid's picture

Apparently they've found a way to cut the VA waitlists:  finding the slightest excuse to dishonorably discharge wounded soldiers.  They're disposable.

Other Than Honorable: Army Strips Benefits of Wounded Veterans by Kicking Them Out for Misconduct (25Min from Democracy Now)

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 17:53 | 4791886 tbd108
tbd108's picture

Screwing veterans is an ancient tradition.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 19:12 | 4792033 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Dugout Doug was exceptional at that, along with his little aides Patton and Ike.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 20:37 | 4792225 ThroxxOfVron
ThroxxOfVron's picture

Titus Pullo enter the areana:

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 17:55 | 4791890 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

If you are not making money for the MIC while in the field, you have no value to them. Amazing how quickly you are forgotten!

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 18:04 | 4791906 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Dead soldier is cheaper than wounded. Problem is they are not dying in combat as estimated.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 18:58 | 4792007 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Ever here of imminent domain? None of us are tolerated if we don't provide value to the "system". Even the poor provide benefit as a voting block. Veterans, more than anyone else, understand how big the lies are. They are likely the last to support the madness. They are of marginal political or financial value and therefore an overhead cost the system can't afford. When any of us are aligned to a group of little or no relevance or go so far as to suggest we don't vote, in the eyes of our government we are doomed.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 20:08 | 4792166 Colonel
Colonel's picture

Veterans, more than anyone else, understand how big the lies are. They are likely the last to support the madness.


Sat, 05/24/2014 - 17:07 | 4791791 BanksterSlayer
BanksterSlayer's picture

It's not that they forgot. It's just that they fell asleep and let a subversive powerful elite bunch of genuine post-WWII Nazi's take over their government, starting with the assassination of JFK by Reinhard Gehlen's new-and-improved CIA in 1963.

Per Jim Willie's recent interview with Turd Ferguson:

"I ask people what the Flag means to them ... shouldn't the White Stripes stand for Cocaine Lines ... and the Stars be replaced by Nazi Swastikas ... and the red lines be replaced with Drops of Blood?"

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 17:16 | 4791811 Schaublin
Schaublin's picture

Alex Jones likes to peddle the idea that "nazis" are in control - along with cone heads and the Vatican - maybe he does not want to upset his wife. No one is in control of anything - it is not and never has been so simple. The closest approximation to control that exists - lies with the issuers of fiat currencies - and that group seem awfully shy about being known.

Sat, 05/24/2014 - 17:32 | 4791845 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

...and they are even more shy about being known as those that created, funded and facilitated the Nazis.


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