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The 8 Biggest Myths Of Obamacare

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by John Graham via The National Center for Policy Analysis,

Four years after its passage, Obamacare has now been largely implemented, and millions have had their coverage disrupted. For years, the administration has propagated a number of myths about Obamacare. Some have already crumbled, and others will fall as Obamacare continues to change the American health system.

Myth No. 1: If you like your health plan, you can keep it. Despite President Obama’s promise that “If you like your plan, you can keep it,” about 6 million people have already been notified by insurance companies that their policies are being canceled. That number will grow. Currently, about 19 million people have health coverage that they purchased in the individual market. Most of those plans do not comply with the requirements of the Affordable Care Act. One expert estimates that the law will cause more than 15 million people to lose their individual insurance by the end of 2014. Most of these people have to get coverage from the deeply troubled Obamacare exchanges.

Businesses were supposed to be allowed to keep their employee coverage.The term the government uses for this is “grandfathered.” The truth is that few small business health plans will be “grandfathered.” For example, even small changes in deductibles and copayments or switching to another plan offered by the same carrier means losing this protection. Small firms keep premiums down primarily by changing insurers, but doing so will likely cause them to lose grandfathered status. The employer will have to find insurance that complies with dozens of costly new mandates, such as paying for so-called “preventive care” with no out-of-pocket cost to the employees.

Under a mid-range estimate, two-thirds of small business employees will not be able to keep the plan they now have.

Under the worst-case scenario, as many as 80 percent will lose their plans.

By contrast, a self-insured, large company plan or union plan is free to change its third-party administrator (the firm hired to administer the benefits on behalf of the employer) as often as it likes and still keep its grandfathered status.

However, a government memorandum predicts that more than half of all employees — and up to as many as two-thirds — with employer-provided health insurance will have to switch to more expensive, more regulated plans.  A survey of employers by a leading benefits consultant found that 90 percent of employers expect to lose their grandfathered status. A majority expect to do so before the employer mandate takes effect. The memorandum suggests that eventually all plans will lose grandfathered status.

Myth No. 2: If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. Many health plans sold in the exchanges offer very narrow networks with a limited choice of doctors. For example, 70 percent of California physicians are not in CoveredCalifornia exchange plan networks If government estimates are correct, about 26 million uninsured people will eventually acquire health insurance. If economic studies are correct, the newly insured will try to double their consumption of health care. Yet, with no increase in the number of physicians, there is no realistic way to meet this demand.

The Association of American Medical Colleges predicts a shortfall of 21,000 primary care physicians by 2015. Before health care reform passed, the Health Resources and Services Administration estimated a shortage of 55,000 to 150,000 physicians by 2020. That number is undoubtedly higher today.12 Texas alone is predicting a shortage of 18,000 nurses by 2015.13

Myth No. 3: There is an “employer mandate” to offer affordable coverage. If an employer has fewer than 50 full-time workers, she is not required to offer health benefits. There is a mandate for larger employers to offer health benefits. However, they do not have to cover spouses or pay for dependents. Most importantly, they have an incentive to offer benefits that will be unaffordable to many workers.

One option is to refuse to provide health insurance and pay a $2,000 fine per employee. Because this is much less than what most companies spend on employee health benefits, many employers will stop offering health insurance and send their employees to the exchanges.

Furthermore, half of all employees work for an employer who is self-insured (meaning the company pays the medical bills and hires a third-party administrator to administer the plan). A self-insured company can avoid the fine with a health plan that only covers the cost of preventive care, with no annual or lifetime limit. However, because this insurance will not satisfy the full requirements of the law, employees may go to the exchange and get subsidized insurance. If they do, the employer will be liable for a $3,000 fine per employee. An employer could avoid the fine by offering to “top up” the limited benefits and requiring employees to pay up to 9.5 percent of their annual wages in premiums and the full cost for their spouses and children.

The table shows an example of a $50,000-a-year employee who is asked to pay 9.5 percent of his or her annual gross wage for individual coverage ($4,720) and the full cost of family coverage ($10,000). Under the law, this is deemed “affordable” and satisfies the employer mandate, even though few workers would willingly spend nearly one-third of their take-home pay on health insurance — unless they expect some whopping medical bills. If an employee turns down this offer, he will not be entitled to subsidies if he buys coverage in an Obamacare exchange.

Myth No. 4: Health reform will lower the cost of health insurance by $2,500 a year for the average family. Because of Obamacare’s mandates and regulations, coverage will be more expensive for everyone outside a small portion of older, low-income adults who can obtain highly subsidized coverage in the exchanges.

A new tax on health insurance is likely to cost the families of employees of small businesses more than $500 a year in higher premiums.

A 40 percent tax on the extra coverage provided by expensive “Cadillac” plans will apply to about one-third of all private health insurance plans by 2019, but, because the tax threshold is not indexed to medical inflation, it will eventually reach every health plan.

Scores of other items will be taxed, ranging from tanning salons to the sale of appreciated capital assets (including homes), in extreme cases.

Some benefits have hidden costs:

Health insurers are raising premiums for everyone in order to charge people with pre-existing conditions less than the expected cost of their care. Some young people, for example, have seen a doubling or tripling of their premiums.

Insurers are also trying to cover the higher costs of sicker enrollees with higher deductibles and narrow networks that cover only some of the doctors and hospitals in areas where people live.

In order for employers to provide health insurance (or more generous insurance) to their employees, they will have to reduce what they pay in wages and in other benefits.

The Congressional Budget Office estimates that 2 million fewer workers will be employed in 2017 and 2.5 million fewer in 2024 than would have been employed in the absence of Obamacare. Also, total compensation will be 1 percent lower.

Myth No. 5: There is an “individual mandate” that ensures everyone has health coverage. As originally written, the Affordable Care Act required most legal residents of the United States to have qualifying coverage or pay a fine. There were narrowly defined exemptions for some religious groups,prisoners, those whose incomes were so low that they did not have to file a tax return and those who would have to pay over 8 percent of household income to buy health insurance. For 2014, the fine was only supposed to be $95 per adult or $285 per family, or 1 percent of household income, whichever is greater. By 2016, the fine is scheduled to go up to $695 per adult or $2,085 per family, or 2.5 percent of income.

However, the individual mandate was effectively deferred until at least 2016 when the Obama administration’s Department of Health & Human Servicesallowed people to decide for themselves if they qualify for a “hardship exemption.” An individual can claim a hardship exemption if she attests that “you received a notice that your current health plan is being cancelled, and you consider the other options available unaffordable.”

Because this exemption was created to reduce the political liability of fining people before the November 2016 election, the individual mandate is highly unlikely ever to be imposed. After all, there is an election every two years. Thus, fewer healthy people and more sick people will continue to sign up for coverage, and premiums will continue to rise.

Myth No. 6: Individuals cannot be denied individual coverage due to pre-existing conditions. This was only true if they applied for Obamacare coverage before March 31, 2014. If they missed that deadline, they cannot get coverage at all until November 15, 2014, unless they experience a life-qualifying event, such as getting married or having a child. In the individual market, prior to Obamacare, people could apply whenever they wanted to.

Myth No. 7: Health insurers no longer can cancel a policy after an insured individual gets sick. This has been illegal for decades. If an insurer canceled a policy, it had to offer coverage under another policy without underwriting. Before Obamacare, a health insurer could only rescind a policy if the insured had misrepresented her health status on her application. If the insurer did so illegally, it was called “post-claims underwriting,” and insurers that did it were punished severely under state law. In 2008, for example, HealthNet announced an agreement with the California Insurance Commissioner to reinstate 926 policies, pay $3.6 million in penalties and reimburse $14 million in outstanding medical claims.

On the contrary, Obamacare has caused many cancellations. For example, as a contractual condition of selling health plans in the CoveredCalifornia exchange, insurers were required to cancel existing policies and force those already covered into the exchange.

On November 14, 2013, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services sent a letter to state insurance commissioners giving them the discretion to allow individuals to keep their prior coverage for one more year. Nearly three-fourths of states agreed to allow insurers to reinstate canceled health plans. However, it appears that most insurers were not able to do so. Indeed, the practice has been specifically barred in a handful of states, including Washington, Indiana and the District of Columbia.

Myth No. 8: Medicare has been strengthened. Reduced Medicare spending, amounting to $715 billion over the next 10 years, will pay for more than half the cost of health reform:

Cuts to hospital services total $260 billion.

Cuts to Medicare Advantage Plans total $156 billion.

Cuts to skilled nursing, hospice, home health and other services add up to $155 billion.

Hospitals that treat a disproportionate share of indigent patients will lose $56 billion.

The elderly and disabled will incur significantly higher costs:

In general, the Medicare spending cuts exceed the new benefits by a factor of more than 10 to 1.

As a result, one of every two people expected to participate in Medicare Advantage over the next 10 years (7.5 million of 14 million) will lose their coverage entirely. According to Medicare’s chief actuary, they will be tossed back into Medicare, with the option to buy another Advantage plan or a supplement. Those who retain their Advantage coverage will face steep benefit cuts or hefty premium increases, or both.

Additionally, indirect costs, including new taxes on drugs and medical devices, will apply to items that are disproportionately used by seniors and the disabled.

To make matters worse, Medicare’s chief actuary believes the planned cuts in fees may cause some doctors to retire and force some hospitals out of business.   

Conclusion. Favorable media coverage of the 8 million people who have enrolled in health insurance via exchanges has allowed the administration and its allies to revive discredited claims about Obamacare’s benefits. The numbers touted by the administration disguise the fact that many of these people lost previous coverage in the period prior to open enrollment, and people are no longer free to acquire the health insurance they want. The real costs of Obamacare will continue to burden Americans, despite the apparent success of the first open enrollment. We need an alternative.


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Fri, 05/30/2014 - 19:34 | 4811370 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Oh no!  It's weekend Tyler!  Okay, Obamacare is a total disaster.  But health insurance in the U.S. was a total disaster before Obamacare.   Let's talk about that, and why Obamacare came into existence (spolier alert -- insurance companies were involved).

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 19:43 | 4811396 Charles Nelson ...
Charles Nelson Reilly's picture

What isn't a fucking disaster in the US these days? Besides the IPA microbrews I can get at the owner run beer store a mile from my house. It's honestly the little bit of freedom left that I really love.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 19:55 | 4811415 economics9698
economics9698's picture
Why does medicine cost so much? 

Simple, government creates shortages and transfers wealth from producers to the medical industry. 

Drugs. The FDA serves as the cartel enforcer and gatekeeper. Drugs take years and millions of dollars to get approved. Classic cartel behavior. Mafia with a smile.

This is very similar to making street drugs illegal, it drives up profits. When marijuana was legalized in California and Colorado cost plummeted and so did violence here and in mexico. The legal dug industry is based on the same economics, high demand, people are dying, limited supply. My only comment is America is a truly sick society to have this system. Legalize pharmaceutical drug manufacturing and cost would plummet. Start by killing the FDA.

A much cheaper alternative would be for the drug industry to test and approve all drugs. Information peer reviewed, and most importantly, information available to lawyers who could sue for damages if there was fraud. Get some greedy lawyers involved and drugs would be much cheaper and safer than today. Never underestimate what a few good lawyers can do.

Doctors. Limited medical schools create shortages and drive up salaries.

Hospitals. Limit the supply, same result.

Government transfer payments. The feds, state, and local government spend $1.1 trillion, about 7% of the GDP on the medical industry. They claim to be helping but heath care cost were 15% of what they are today from 1929 to 1970. That is no accident. 

When government takes money from you and gives it to a group, any group, education, medical, hot dogs, those in the industry can demand higher prices, production is marginally affected. Higher prices, maybe some more production. When the government tells you that its "free" they simply take your money and giving it to the industry, they take their cut, and send you the bill in the form of taxes or more commonly for the poor, inflation. Bread in Venezuela is $11 a loaf. It will happen here. Nothing is free and there is not a bunch of millionaires waiting to pay your bills.

Third party payer. FDR started employers in the insurance business, and that is when historic medical care cost started rising. In simple terms if you pay 12 cents on the dollar for a new car what car are you going to buy? An Aveo or Cadillac?

Third party payer insulates the consumer from the real cost of medicine and creates a incentive for doctors and patents to overuse the product. Medical savings accounts would eliminate this problem. The problem is the disconnect between price and the patent.

EVERYTHING the government does is designed to help increase profitability for the industry and pretend to help the consumer. Some politicians, Schumer, Cantor, understand full well what is happening, and some are dumb as a box of rocks, Pelosi.


Fri, 05/30/2014 - 19:56 | 4811423 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

FDR's fault.  Did you forget the role of private drug companies and health care corporations in this?  I give you that big government is evil.  Will you admit that big corp USA is evil?

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 20:09 | 4811463 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Why can't you accept the fact that corporations and government are the ugly twins in this dance we do?

Its called fascism.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 20:12 | 4811468 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I fully accept it and preach it.  But a lot of people here blame the cops for taking the mob bribery, and suggest the solution is just getting rid of cops.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 20:26 | 4811507 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Until the cops start arresting those who attempt to bribe them (let alone accept it) I would say they are part of the problem.

Wouldn't you? There is law or there is not.

How about this for a law? Government employees are forbidden to unionize as no one is at the table to speak for the employer, which is us.

Don't even attempt to say "we elect those who negotiate on our behalf" as an excuse to forbid it.

Those "elected/selected" are government employees too and have a vested interest in the protection of the central state and its growth.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 20:41 | 4811560 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Um, of course cops on the take are not going to arrest those who bribe them.   My point -- which I think you're missing -- is that the bribees AND the bribers are the problem.  It's not an either/or.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 21:28 | 4811683 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Had to dash through the rain to pick up squire, some play at school, something about revenge, oddly enough.

So, the answer is vigilantism? ;-)

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 21:58 | 4811695 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture



Just eight?...  For the whole massive monstrosity that is ObozoCare?

Ha! Someone obviously has his head up his arse!

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 22:11 | 4811761 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Ideology, guys.  It's a step below being an idiot.  A step below because idiiots are happy.  The matrix wants you to blame politicians and not those who own them.  Blame them both.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 22:33 | 4811794 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

Done and done. I blame them both.

Now tell me again how I can vote out the c-level execs and the board of, say, Astra Zeneca?

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 22:33 | 4811795 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Says the absolutist. A smart person blames no one and understands that it's just human nature to be a dipshit asshole. 

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 22:47 | 4811819 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

So you've got human nature down, then.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 23:02 | 4811847 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Well enough to know it's a folly to blame them for acting in their own best insterests. 

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 00:09 | 4811948 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Problem with Obamacare?

No care involved.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 08:36 | 4812278 RazvanM
RazvanM's picture

There is a big difference between Gov and Corp: the Gov cannot (1) produce goods (2) efficiently (3) for a long time. This affirmation was proven in practice in all communist countries.

It is necessary to have private Corporations for that (associations of individuals). From time to time these become too big and must be split by the state. It is hard to do that when the Corporations have a say into regulation through lobby or when you cannot say where the Gov ends and where the Corp starts.


Sat, 05/31/2014 - 14:36 | 4812737 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

 LetThemEatRand    I fully accept it and preach it.  But a lot of people here blame the cops for taking the mob bribery, and suggest the solution is just getting rid of cops.


They are only cops because we are forced to accept them as cops because they have the legal monopoly on force, regardless of law. Otherwise theyare nothing but fascist government vigilantes that are ungoverned in many cases..


LetThemEatRand    My point -- which I think you're missing -- is that the bribees AND the bribers are the problem.

---Your point is false, which is the problem with your argument. One cannot exist without the other. Thus if one is gone, so is the other. And unfortunately, we no longer have a system of accountability that goes after the bribe takers in a meanful way. AS government employees, they have taken an oath and are supposed to be dependable and a person of trust. A briber, which is a criminal, has taken no oath and is not bound to the public like a government employee.


LetThemEatRand     Ideology, guys.  It's a step below being an idiot.  A step below because idiiots are happy.


Everything is ideologically driven, even for those that claim to have no ideology. It's about one's ideas of what makes a better society and how to run it., even if you are not left, right, or independent. If you don't understand that, you have a lot to learn.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 03:38 | 4812131 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Because you get the lead mixed up in the dance. Contrary to most all the nodding heads here I still place the blame at the feet of the government beast. Here is my generally contrarian view:

The reason GE is not lobbying your neighborhood architectual committee for favors is because there are none to buy, at least none of interest. There is no power.

I suggest that the U.S. and most legislative bodies worldwide are a sort of legal mafia protection racket. You pay up or a regulatory brick comes through your window. The flip side is that you may occasionally be able to buy a favor, too. However, every once in awhile the mafia boss still has to make an example out of someone. That is when you see the big JP Morgan fines or your least favorite pharma company, etc. They need to make the point about who has the power and even what happens if you cross them. They also need a bit of theater for the serfs, subjects, ruled. When you see companies inexplicably lining up for the "Please beat me more rules." this is what is probably happening.

The rest is simple churn and incompetence in the legislative process.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 09:18 | 4812344 BandGap
BandGap's picture

You are ALL right. What we have witnessed os the morphing of industry and government. Government feeds industry.

FDR and the Truman administrations froze wages. Employers looking for an edge to get the best employees had to offer incentives outside of salaries. helath benefits were born.

If you boil down any and all that the current administration is doing and it amounts to one thing - control, and controlling the money flow.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 11:27 | 4812527 BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

E-9698: Excellent comment - spot on.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 15:26 | 4812818 Ms. Erable
Ms. Erable's picture

"...and some are dumb as a box of rocks, Pelosi."

I'm pretty sure that small earthquake I just felt was the entire Sierra Nevada range's way of stating its displeasure at being compared to that walking mental corpse.


Fri, 05/30/2014 - 19:53 | 4811419 donsluck
donsluck's picture

You must not live in New Mexico, where even grey haired old geezers have to show a photo ID, which the establishment scans and the government, of course, saves.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 19:46 | 4811402 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Seems like I read somewhere (some real brainiac-types, a Harvard study probably) that FORTY MILLION PEOPLE WERE CLAMORING & DYING BECAUSE THEY LACKED HEALTH INSURANCE.

Where are they?

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 20:04 | 4811447 AGuy
AGuy's picture


Veterans getting mal-medical services or put on One year plus waiting lists? Probably not 40 Million but probably near 1 million.


Probably the only group of Americans this is really eligibel for entitlements for putting their lives on the line get shafted. Usually Gov't take good care of thier soldiers as they are the only means gov't have to stay in power. Only in America does it gov't treat its military so poorly.



Fri, 05/30/2014 - 20:07 | 4811453 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

Right wing FEAR mongering does fool Some people.

The Koch Bros took over a million$ from ACA. Money beats conviction every time. ACA, good for the Koch Bros but amazingly not good for you. Wingers crack me up.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 20:16 | 4811480 nmewn
nmewn's picture

You gonna answer the forty million question FOR RAND or not?

I don't give a flying fuck about the Koch's or Buffet or Gates or Soros...take that back to your boy Reid and blow it up his ass.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 20:57 | 4811599 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

I love watching wingers go into orbit.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 21:32 | 4811690 nmewn
nmewn's picture

How else can one find the source of the lefts unicorns? ;-)

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 22:42 | 4811810 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

So that is how rainbows get up there...

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 01:22 | 4812034 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Gee, roadhassard, things slow over at OFA with the man child failing? Or hasn't that sick old nazi, Soros, issued his new orders?


Sat, 05/31/2014 - 11:38 | 4812546 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

I find it pathetic when idiots drool and assume they are communicating.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 14:39 | 4812749 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

roadhazard    I love watching wingers go into orbit.


You probably love it as much as seeing vets die under government care.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 22:03 | 4811748 Pickleton
Pickleton's picture

You're responding to someone talking about the 40 million clamboring for insurance (which was left wingnut fear mongering) that have utterly FAILED to materialize and somehow that led you to right wing fear mongering and the Kochs?

Sounds to me like you've been sucking too many large Kochs and it's affected your reading ability.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 23:16 | 4811862 fishmonger
fishmonger's picture

Jay Carney, is that you boy? That was a quick transition...

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 20:11 | 4811466 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

They just haven't amnestied them yet.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 21:59 | 4811742 Pickleton
Pickleton's picture

Add that one to the end of the Myths list.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 19:52 | 4811416 GernB
GernB's picture

Because progressives by one name or another have been trying to swindle the public into giving up their freedom of choice in the name of universal health care for decades. Then finally, the deck was stacked so much in thier favor that if they told bold faced lies about it to the public and made every dirty deal they could make behind closed doors they could barely get enough votes to pass it as a budget deal where they only needed a simple majority.

What we needed was more freedom of choice, but that would mean getting government out of the way and letting people choose what insurance they want independent of their employment. But, how could progressives plan other peoples lives for them if they are free. So a few foisted Obamacare on us as a stepping stone to what they really want: servitude to the state.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 09:58 | 4812400 detached.amusement
detached.amusement's picture

so in other words, the same way the did the 16th amendment

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 19:58 | 4811431 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Healthcare ,not just insurance, is a disaster in the US.

It is exceptionally expensive , exceptionally wasteful, and exptionally crony capitalist.

Apart from that 'its the best in the world', words spoken by people who have never left US shores

no doubt.Obozocare makes all of those problems worse, not better.Your defence of it

is juvenile.

Tear the entire system down, and start agaain.Its not fixable, and do healthcare as well

whilst your at it..

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 22:11 | 4811758 Pickleton
Pickleton's picture

"It is exceptionally expensive , exceptionally wasteful, and exptionally crony capitalist."

True, but you forgot, it's exceptionally innovative and American medicine has been the recipient of more Nobel Prizes than any other 2-3 nations put together. 

Oh BTW, I've lived in Europe and traveled all of it. I've been to Africa, Asia, South America, Central America, the Middle East and a few other odd places.  So you can imply that those that claim it's the best in the world dont know shit, but it's still the best in the world and you can eat shit.

Unless of course, you're implying that your homeland that allows patients to starve to death and drink water out of potted plants in your hospitals is somehow better there Winny.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 08:40 | 4812282 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Unwrap that flag before it chokes you.

Nobel prizes mean little in relation to healthcare, or much else eg Obozo.

Having suffered under both systems, the NHS beats the US hands down.Cheap mediocraty beats,

very expensive mediocraty.Both are best avoided in fact.

Neither  are even on the same playing field as the Swiss system, which I am lucky enough to qualify for.

Trouble is when I need that care, I would probably be too ill to travel to it.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 12:39 | 4812615 Pickleton
Pickleton's picture

"Nobel prizes mean little in relation to healthcare"

I know I know.  Nobel Prizes in medicine for, you know, inventing stuff, curing stuff and all that.  Nah, you're right it means nothing when we can go over the NHS and drink out of potted plants.  THAT'S true innovation.

STFU half wit.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 20:01 | 4811434 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

No. Governent was involved. Insurance companies are a strawman. As corporations, they only exist because of the monopoly on violence over a geographic region, known as Government.

We've had over 100 years of government "solving" the healthcare crisis. Before the insurance companies, it was pharmaceutical companies, before that it was doctors.

Perhaps we should stop with the insanity of government?

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 21:11 | 4811641 drendebe10
drendebe10's picture

Phoenix VA hospital bureaucratic care coming to u soon courtesy the liar un chief obamascare...   u all aint seen nuthin yet til you need it...  if u like ur doctor then u will be taken care of by a midlevelbprovider...

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 21:14 | 4811647 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Spoiler alert -- insurance companies are still involved and wrote obamacare and if they lose money will be bailed out by the taxpayers 

Another victory for obamacare lol

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 21:17 | 4811653 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Are insurance companies responsible for the VA distater too?

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 21:19 | 4811656 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

No, that would be the corrupt government that gets 100% credit for that.  Though I would add that bankers started the wars.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 22:21 | 4811779 MedicalQuack
MedicalQuack's picture

No insurers are not responsbile for the VA but, there's a company called LHI that is a subsidiary of United Heatlhcare that does disability exams and evaluations for the vets to give them their their rating.  Before, Vets can get into the VA, they have to go through this procedure first, which is more time, a front runner if you will.  Also worth metnioning United has the west coast Tri-Care administration for DOD and they sued DOD to get it.  Nobody has ever uncovered what the lawsuit was about but all of sudden they had the contract. 

Now every time you see troops deployed, LHI, the United subsidairy also does their innocualtions, physcials, etc. before they leave so more money for United there in addition to Picis software that all the VA hospitals use.  So there's some tidbits you may not have been aware of. 

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 00:12 | 4811951 Chaos Trend
Chaos Trend's picture

The VA uses Georgia-Pacific paper rowels too. Let's blame Georgia-Pacific!

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 21:35 | 4811697 Groundhog Day
Groundhog Day's picture

Its quite simple really, obamacare is the equivalent of the 401k replacing the pension plan.  The burden is passed on to the individual vs the company

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 10:35 | 4812453 MasterControl
MasterControl's picture

Who regulates the insurance companies genius?

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:29 | 4812949 tony wilson
tony wilson's picture

Eustace Mullins (1923-2010), discusses one of his best-selling books; 'Murder by Injection' exposing the unholy dynasty of the big drug companies, the medical establishment, the Rockefeller syndicate and the evils of the cut-slash-and-burn cancer racket that has killed millions in the name of 'fighting cancer.'



hilary or obarmy or bush all the same


Hillary Clinton's Health Care Plan - Eustace Mullins

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 19:38 | 4811383 Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

When the "health" insurance companies are all out of business, I will be happy. How many people could have healthcare with all of the executive salaries of the "health" insurance companies? A veritable shit-ton!

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 19:51 | 4811410 donsluck
donsluck's picture

Indeed, it is important to remember the difference between health care and health insurance. The insurance companies provide no health care (except HMOs).

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 21:20 | 4811661 drendebe10
drendebe10's picture

Health insurance companies are a gross misnomer.  They are investment companies above and beyond all else and meducal claimscare just an expense like payroll, rent and utilities, etc... they could give 2 schitz and a wet fahrt about the health of the people whose money they take w impunity... obamascare represents obscene windfall profits since now they can raise premiums, jack up dedeuctblrs and tighten the screws down on covering what you need.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 20:01 | 4811440 GernB
GernB's picture

Obviously, because everyone knows when you remove economic incentives to provide consumers with what they want you always get much better results. I *want* someone to make money off of my health care because I also want them motivated to provide the best, and I want them to pay the piper when I don't get what I want. If you want to deepend on other voters and politically motivated ruling class for the quality of your health care then more power to ya, but don't force me down that road with you.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 21:23 | 4811664 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

The economic incentives for CEO's nowadays are obscene and obviously more about TPTB giving their key executives enough incentives to be willing to execute all their orders without question.  There is no way these 'elite' sociopaths are worth hundreds of times the value of minimum wage...  AND THAT IS HOW HEALTH CARE IS DESIGNED TO ABUSE AND KILL!

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 19:39 | 4811384 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

"health insurance in the U.S. was a total disaster before Obamacare"...How so? I have been working for 26 years and have been happy with my insurance.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 20:00 | 4811437 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

You are fortunate to still have it Fred. If we still had Mr Miffed's plan we would be paying 25% more in premiums now. This is a bargain from what I've heard many are now paying. My insurance premium only went up a few percentage points but the copays jumped 30%. I know our hospital is financially challenged since Obamacare passed. Our supplies have dramatically increased and the lab is 500k over budget. This has never happened before. Something has to give and I fear it will be layoffs and charging more for insurance.

You'd think working for a hospital would be a perk in this area but a unionized friend of one who works for a grocery store pays far less than I do.


Fri, 05/30/2014 - 21:06 | 4811624 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

Insurance companies used to watch the bottom line and work to keep costs under control...then something happened. Seems like they paid congress to look the other way or something and now they are all colluding. They will pay for anything. Lung transplants for life long smokers, hip replacements for 92 yo invalids. There is no end to it. What happened? What changed? This started a little before Obamacare but now seems to have accelerated. My wife would take care of all the insurance matters so I have not really paid attention. Maybe someone in the insurance biz can shed some light on the subject.

I remember when the "evil" insurance companies would not pay for pay for experimental treatmenst to try to save a child's life, not they spring for Viagra for over-the-hill pervs.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 01:49 | 4812060 Midas
Midas's picture

Wilma says the little blue pills are worth it.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 19:41 | 4811389 AMGdesignnl
AMGdesignnl's picture

In Holland we pay EURO 100-130 a month <);o) that's all folks 

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 19:57 | 4811426 nmewn
nmewn's picture

And your surgical waiting times are, what?

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 20:03 | 4811445 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Probably not long. They come here if not acute and if they have the money. Same as it ever is.


Fri, 05/30/2014 - 19:58 | 4811430 economics9698
economics9698's picture

In the USA we paid $5 a month before the assholes in Washington fucked it up.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 20:04 | 4811446 GernB
GernB's picture

Is that before or after you factor in subsidies? There no such thing as a free lunch.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 21:10 | 4811639 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

Ah, to live in a homogeneous paradise.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 22:17 | 4811769 Pickleton
Pickleton's picture

And how much of of your salary comes off the top in taxes to pay for that?

And how much of the defense of your country has been paid for by America the past 60 fucking years to allow you socialist dickwits to allocate your taxes to pay for that? 


........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
..........''...\.......... _.·´

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 23:04 | 4811851 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

I always thought it was funny those NATO countries talking shit about being socialist and better than the US but if you look around all of the militaries are using US made equipment and relying on US built bases for their own self-defense. Let's not even consider who set up their financial systems and their governments...

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 00:11 | 4811950 Pickleton
Pickleton's picture

Spot on.  Always irritates me too.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 00:23 | 4811977 besnook
besnook's picture

japan,for one, would love to get rid of the occupation forces in japan and i don't think it would affect their universal healthcare.

those militaries using usa equipment paid good money for that stuff employing thousands of usa labor.

only europe uses the usa military(and israel but in a much more effective way) for defense. the usa presence in almost all the other countries are for treasure draining, unneccesary, even stupid offensive missions.

universal healthcare works and works well. the usa has the advantage of choosing the best of all the different systems but chooses to use the proven worse system. who is stupider?

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 12:48 | 4812620 Pickleton
Pickleton's picture

"japan,for one, would love to get rid of the occupation forces "

LIke I said 60+ years later.  And I'd agree.  Fuck every country.  Go be Russia's and China's bitches and when you're done with that and need a good rescue, go fuck yourself - you asked for it.  The reality is the world will mourn the death of the western way of life and we'll all be more impoverished, less free and worse-off because of it.


"universal healthcare works and works well"

 Sure if you want 19th century medicine.  And if you can even get that.  Meanwhile, back in reality, your system is worthless without US innovation.  Sorry, thems the facts.  My vote says you're stupider.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 08:48 | 4812288 RazvanM
RazvanM's picture

This Bechtel contract is just one exemple of protection taxes the governments around the world are paying to US. Being ignorant about reality is not an excuse.

US maintains a huge army in order to protect its economic advantages. If will retreat to its own territory it won't be able to project its huge military force and to bomb-liberate various countries resources. Don't lie to yourself: the soldiers will go and die in a warzone for the money, not to bring hope and democracy.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 00:24 | 4811980 besnook
besnook's picture

americans are not bright enough to understand.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 06:57 | 4812209 nmewn
nmewn's picture

So you're saying, the US publik edukation system (positively stuffed to the rafters with bureaucrats, administrators and fellow leftwing apparatchik travellers) churning out students who must take remedial reading, writing and math before being admitted into college (the next level of indoctrination), is yet another massive failure for progressives?

Thanks, I'd almost forgotten about that ;-)

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 07:28 | 4812220 Singelguy
Singelguy's picture

Yes, in Holland the government controls the fee schedule, there are not enough lawyers to sue for malpractice, and the Dutch are far less litigious than in the USA. I doubt that Dutch medical professionals and hospitals pay very much for malpractice insurance and don't order tons of unnecessary tests to cover their collective asses. It makes the system far more efficient but not necessarily better.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 19:41 | 4811390 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Jam in VA insurance scandal to build the new ponzi ObamaCare enrollment. 

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 19:44 | 4811398 Commodore64
Commodore64's picture

Why do people keep taking this?



Fri, 05/30/2014 - 19:58 | 4811429 mrpxsytin
mrpxsytin's picture

Don't policies like Obamacare actually encourage people to use the medical system more? If I didn't have insurance then I'd be damn well certain about going to a hospital before agreeing to any procedures, but if I am forced to get insurance then I'll just go to the hospital because I'm paying for it anyway. I can't help but see that Obamacare will just make people sicker in general. The medical system is very flawed, I worked in a hospital for 4 years and if anything, I ended up thinking that hospitals tend to make a lot of people sicker than better.

In Australia, our conservative government is trying to implement a mandatory client payment of $7 for your doctor visits (currently it is free to see a doctor). And so many people are complaining! After years of 'free' medical care the socialists are literally having a heart attack at the thought that they will have to pay something for their own medical care... 

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 20:17 | 4811486 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

We pay for all pharmaceutical R&D. We are a core state. 

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 20:22 | 4811499 mrpxsytin
mrpxsytin's picture

Forgive my ignorance. Are you making the point that the USA is the main pharma researcher in the world? 

And therefore, this Obamacare is like a massive subsidy to the pharma industry. Which then allows the USA to keep on top of the game and maintain monopoly over global pharmaceuticals??

If so, that does make sense. Cui bono.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 11:08 | 4812498 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture


Fri, 05/30/2014 - 20:26 | 4811509 djsmps
djsmps's picture

Well, I'm one of the older people with subsidized Obamacare. I haven't had health insurance since 2002 because I was self-employed for the next 7 years. I was against Obamacare, and still am, but I signed up and discovered it is basically free for me. And I still haven't used it. I'm sure at some point I will.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 10:29 | 4812443 pasmurf
pasmurf's picture

so tell us about the next time you go to see your Doctor, the Dr you can keep. Tell us about your free preventive care. Thank a young person who bought Obamacare, tell us when you find one that paid for it and likes it. Free- my ass.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 10:30 | 4812444 pasmurf
pasmurf's picture

so tell us about the next time you go to see your Doctor, the Dr you can keep. Tell us about your free preventive care. Thank a young person who bought Obamacare, tell us when you find one that paid for it and likes it. Free- my ass.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 00:09 | 4811946 kareninca
kareninca's picture

People are going to doctors' offices in droves because of their new Obamacare policies.  Then, when they actually make an appointment (if they can*), they find out that their out of pocket cost is a fortune, due to deductibles and copays.  And then they cancel whatever procedure they had been planning to have.  In sum, Obamacare coverage is NOT going to encourage extra use:  the deductibles and copays on the affordable policies are very high.

*the doctors who are not taking Obamacare policy patients, are not doing so because of these high deductibles and copays.  They know from bitter experience that many people will stiff them on their out of pocket costs.

Rhode Island has screwed itself royally.  They agreed to extend Medicaid, due to the federal government's promise to cover 90 percent of the cost of coverage for the new enrollees.  Well, perhaps the fed gov will honor that, perhaps not.  In any case, there is another issue.  The fed gov did NOT promise to cover the cost of new Medicaid enrollees who were not part of the "extension" group.  That is, the fed gov is not paying the costs of people who in the past qualified.  And as it happens, all the publicity and "sign em up" pushing has led tens of thousands of people to enroll who did qualify before (but hadn't enrolled).  RI is on the hook for them.  And RI in no way has the money.  Tens of thousands doesn't sound like a lot, but RI is a tiny, broke state.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 20:20 | 4811491 nah
nah's picture

sex reassignment surgery will make you feel better


its health insurance bitchez

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 20:29 | 4811493 socalbeach
socalbeach's picture


Fri, 05/30/2014 - 20:22 | 4811496 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

The first, biggest, and largest volume of lies we were told was during his election and re-election campaigns!

Everything else pales by comparision.  We were SOLD a lie.  We were sold OBAMA!

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 21:05 | 4811621 infinity8
infinity8's picture

I didn't buy anything, thank-you-very-fucking-much. But that doesn't mean I don't feel like I've had the new normal shoved in my every orifice for the last too-many years.


Sat, 05/31/2014 - 02:04 | 4812069 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

America is a democracy now, so everyone else bought it and you're just gonna have to fukkin like it because you're along for the ride. :rollseyes and gags a little:

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 20:24 | 4811505 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Obamacare about white people more than he do black.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 20:58 | 4811601 CoastalCowboy
CoastalCowboy's picture

Duh... I thought it was FREE, FREE, FREE!

Seriously, I slip through every fucking crack in this God forsaken fascistic piece of shit. I almost think it was tailor made to screw me six ways till Sunday.

It has screwed me since March 2010 and will continue to fuck me.

Anyone that supports this crap is a candidate for a lobotomy.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 21:00 | 4811608 XitSam
XitSam's picture

A lie is knowingly saying something that is not true.  #1 and #2 are not myths, they are lies.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 21:10 | 4811637 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Just more evidence of the criminality of the DC US.

Hey all of you pols, crats and banksters: "If you like your head, you can keep your head."

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 21:12 | 4811642 homiegot
homiegot's picture

So in a nutshell it's all bullshit, as usual.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 21:16 | 4811651 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

Chelsea Manning's gender transition...Who is paying for this? I read under her wiki page that Federal prisons will pay for hormone treatment for inmates.

What has happened this past 5 to 10 years?

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 22:30 | 4811789 homiegot
homiegot's picture

Must be something in the water.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 21:16 | 4811652 ThirdCoastSurfer
ThirdCoastSurfer's picture

#9 or higher: "Preventative" is not waived from applying to your deductile. Just what is meant by preventaive and what applies seems to be undetermined.

Especially upon examination of:

Hasn't blood pressure testing always been free? 

I think a good example is the PSA my doctor recently ordered. A PSA is a Prostate Specific Antigen test and BCBS Texas says I'm repsonsible for the allowed becuase the diagnosis the lab submitted was for hypertension and not a "preventative diagnsois".  I say that a PSA, then, is not a medically necessary test in relation to hypertension and should be declined, but, the Texas Department of Insurance , BCBS, the lab and my physician all apear to disagree as they have not responsed or have not agreed with my contention.  To paraphase a line from the new TV drama "Fargo", "just becuase everybody else is right does that mean I'm wrong"?

Also, when will we ever learn how much the subsidies are costing the federal government?

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 10:04 | 4812409 detached.amusement
detached.amusement's picture

apparently you're rather ignorant of your heart's connection to your prostate

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 21:58 | 4811737 pasmurf
pasmurf's picture

add another myth or 1 riddle.  if Obama is fighting for the middle class below 100k income then who is covered with a $6300 deductible?Middle class myth of Obamacare is that everyone has health insurance.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 22:03 | 4811749 user2011
user2011's picture

Obama > Osama...   Obama successfully destroy America and it's core values.   These two gave birth to the USSA.  

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 06:54 | 4812206 atthelake
atthelake's picture

Osama gets more credit than he should. It was US politicians and the psychos who own them.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 22:50 | 4811824 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

#9 - Healthcare will improve. Fuck that - this is their fucking plan for slavaging SS and Medicare. Sick old people die instead of getting treatment. Fucking fuckers.

Fri, 05/30/2014 - 22:53 | 4811832 MedicalQuack
MedicalQuack's picture

Oh gosh where do I start since I cover this stuff like daily.  If you want to talk the VA first, this is a big issue and the medical records system needs a code fix so they can't game it.  Staff all over the place figured out how to work the appointment settings and what they don't know or never thought of is that system admins will have every log on with name, time stamp, etc. all the information  in audit tables on who did what.  Then it's a battle of employees saying "their supervisor" told them to do it that way.  Happens with software and they outsmarted the system basically with a flawed data module to do this.  Nobody's fault really but I'm surprised that it lasted this long and was communicated throughout the system for so long. 

We have become a nation of "stat rats" per se and those model are now failing, why?  People rigged the math and the coding.  Not only the VA but all over the place and then we have Congress and the White House living in their "virtual worlds" and think that all this is fine..and it's not. It's just like Wall Street, don't change the portfolio, change the math. As I have said, Obamacare has been nothing but a big Attack of the Killer Algorithms.

Here's a new goodie that WellPoint popped with this week too for those needing cancer treatments..sounds like a kickback but they will pay Oncologists $350 a month per patient to use their cancer treatment guidelines, in other words let WellPoint decide what treatments you get and when...this floored everyone and even doctors didn't know what to WellPoint is going to be the Oncologist as far as determining what your cancer treatment will be...

Pre-existing conditions are now the new narrow networks risk assessments, and guess what, United Healthcare has been firing Medicare advantage doctors in several states and Virginia is the latest to be hit.  So what do we have, doctors being kicked out of network and patients having to find new doctors. In addition United bid and won a Medicare advantage contract and guess what, they had cut doctors already in that area and had no doctors to see the patients so they lost that contract and it went back to the prior insurer, so tell me they know what they are doing?

It would help the case if on the other hand United was not easily dishing out a check for $175k for a hammer toe procedures for the wife of a NY banker, who in this case also got mad.  Seems Wall Street has different out of network provisions on their coverage.  Hammer toe surgery at most would be $15 to $20k and maybe even less.

Long and short of all of this is that Obamacare is just one big bunch of broken algorithms that don't work together.  We do need both the White House and Congress to come out of their "virtual worlds" here and back to the real world.

Hospitals now are competing with insurers too and one hospital chain in Pennsylvania bought an insurer to create a network like Kaiser and it is only about a year old but seems to be doing ok.

United is the big player here with so many subsidiaries that I swear help and compete with each other too, how they stay under the radar as 2/3 of their money is from insurance and the other 1/3 is from selling health technology software.  By the way they have a subsidiary in the Caymans called H and W Indemnity ltd that has no key executives recorded.  Aetna too has re-insurance policies they take out in the Caymans as well.

Insurers got exactly what they wanted as I said back in 2009 that Sebelius was the wrong person and that they would run her over due to lack of any data or technology background and they did.  Insurers are also hiring Quants like they are going out of style too so they are not just for hedge funds anymore.

As a matter of fact all these executives that don't have a tiny hair of technology background are toxic and I started calling it the Sebelius Syndrome as they can't manage quant and mathematicians at insurers that are much smarter than them, like the SEC and and Banks..same crap.  I said Mary Jo White as well as Congress also suffers from the Sebelius Syndrome as well as a bunch more out there.  She got the name as she was so publicly weird and talked all her strange perceptions.

With the Press Secretary turning in his resignation today, we had a double whammy along with the VA today.  We're in big trouble as big business is just romping all over government and they are too blind to admit to or see it.

The Affordable Care Plan in it's origins was simple per se, but let insurers put their quants on it and they made it much more complicated as that's what they do and of course the government was reacting every which way too as things change so rapidly out there too.  Narrow networks is the work of the insurers and the website and subsidies mess up is the government and there's more in there as well but none of it works together...Killer Algorithms..why I made that page of videos, Attack of the Killer Algorithms...I'm  even getting banks on the page now's people smarter than me that have taken time out to help educate and I'm just the curator.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 08:55 | 4812304 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

My paternal grandma showed me her hammer toes. Kinda traumatic for a small boy so that is why I remember it. I think it was from wearing high heel shoes. I don't recall her getting any operations. Times have changed.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 09:33 | 4812369 newworldorder
newworldorder's picture

The "lets pretend" line has been crossed a long time ago on most aspects that define and govern American Society.

The politicians are ever so eager to hide reality - they destroy people with an efficient and capable thought in their head.

The typical voter is so misinformed and out of touch with most basic issues to the point of rendering them incapable of removing the parasites from politics, as long as, those parasites continue the free sh**t and promises of future goodies.

Enjoy the current system while you can - it may not be there tomorrow.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 00:31 | 4811982 kareninca
kareninca's picture

A friend of my husband's got back from a trip overseas last month; he had caught pneumonia while travelling.  He had been on Coumadin since his bypass surgery six years ago (he was in his mid 70s), with no issues.  The U.S. hospital (huge, renowned) fucked up his Coumadin level after a few days in for the pneumonia.  There in the hospital he had a massive stroke, was in a coma for a month, and just died.  Look, I can't prove that he had the stroke because they fucked up his Coumadin level.  But that is what happened.

Someone I volunteer with has basal cell carcinoma.  She has no insurance, and is looking at very costly Mohs surgery.  I just googled around and there is every reason to believe that she can cure it with a vitamin C paste; the number of anecdotes (including on very reputable sites) is staggering.  Vitamin C preferentially kills cancer cells (topically); they are now using lemon juice in India to cure early stage cervical cancer.  Well, there is no money in the U.S. for a clinical trial on something like Vitamin C paste for basal cell  -  who would fund that????

As a bonus, it turns out that if you go in for a pap smear, if the speculum has not been cleaned by autoclave or bleach, you can catch HPV from it:  it turns out that chemical disinfectants do NOT kill HPV:

Staying away from the medical system is looking like a better bet every day.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 10:06 | 4812412 detached.amusement
detached.amusement's picture

my gram, my best friend's gram, both problems with that drug also.  my best friend's gram keeps telling us to take her home while sitting in her living room because they fkn OD'd her on that shit.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 13:15 | 4812654 Jack4952
Jack4952's picture

From a retired physician:

1.) Basal cell carcinoma is NOT a real cancer, despite its name. (A real cancer metastasizes to other remote parts of the body; basal cell does not.) HOWEVER, basal cell can invade locally into adjacent tissues and do severe damage. My suggestion: Have the basal cell excised (cut out) by a dermatologist. It can be done during an office visit and will cost only a few hundred dollars. (Have your friend ask the physician to accept payments over time and/or a discounted price. Most doctors will do this)

2.) The vitamin C paste is NONSENSE!




Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:17 | 4812878 kareninca
kareninca's picture

This person has been to a number of dermatologists (asking re self pay, as you suggest) and they have pooh-poohed simple excision, while pushing Moh's surgery.  To be fair, it is on her nose, so excision could look pretty bad.  Yes, I know that basal cell does not metastasize; I've read quite a bit about this at this point.  Vitamin C works as well as simple excision for many people, and since it's not a dangerous situation, it is worth trying that first.  Actually, since she can't afford Moh's surgery, and the doctors she's seen won't do excision, I'm not sure what else there is.

BTW, do you have any actual evidence that the vitamin C paste approach is nonsense??  You seem to be simply asserting it; do you have any links?  I could provide you with innumerable links claiming success:  this one is from a current doctor:

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 00:58 | 4812015 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

Look bitchez.

Treat your body better than you treat your lawn mower, and your chances of needing a ton of medical care are drastically reduced.

Stuff your face, take your insulin shots, stress over everything, and watch football instead of working out and eating right....then you deserve what you get.

You will be old. And broke. 

Your choice.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 01:33 | 4812038 jack stephan
jack stephan's picture

I'd rather be in space, suck giant donkey balls with sweat.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 04:40 | 4812151 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Nicely written article.


Sat, 05/31/2014 - 08:14 | 4812256 Took Red Pill
Took Red Pill's picture

The entire US healthcare system is a disaster and Obamacare did not help it. But do you know what? They don't want to fix it! It's big business. It's very profitable for us to be sick! All those billions of dollars raised for cancer research and cancer rates continue to rise. The sicker we all are, the more GDP goes up and the more profits big pharma makes!

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 08:37 | 4812280 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

On a related note another government healthcare program, Medicare, will not deny coverage for sex change operations:

Is this a great country or what?



Sat, 05/31/2014 - 08:56 | 4812306 mendigo
mendigo's picture

For many families the cost of "affordable healthcare" is too much (about $900/month for bronze) and so they will instead take the penalty.


For many employers they will also be better off to not participate and take the fine.

Net obama care is simply a tax that subsidizes the existing mess.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 09:03 | 4812323 d edwards
d edwards's picture

"Myths" is too kind a word: "f-ing lies" would have been more accurate.


Remember these lies in November and vote every Dem that voted for ACA (which is all of them) out of their cushy offices.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 10:35 | 4812455 MasterControl
MasterControl's picture

"If an employer has fewer than 50 full-time workers, she is not required to offer health benefits."

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 11:36 | 4812541 Hannibal
Hannibal's picture

Well folks, you DON'T have to participate with anything you dont like or want.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 11:42 | 4812551 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

ClusterfuckCare. Coming to a funeral home near you.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 12:29 | 4812600 Your Creator
Your Creator's picture

That's how you become a demoshit politician,  you have to be a compulsive liar.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:22 | 4812930 tony wilson
tony wilson's picture

lugols iodine

collodial silver home made

bicarbonate of soda

food grade hydrogen peroxide

ozonated water

liposomal vit c home made

activated charcol



slippery elm


hulda clarke zapper

bob beck electrical products

reclaim you fucking health suckers

these trillion dollar corparations want you dead

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 17:22 | 4813101 robnume
robnume's picture

If we keep bickering at each other about ideologies, we're done for. Divide and conquer is the strategy for TPTB. Grow up and realize what a serious thing our lack of affordable healthcare is for individuals. Let's work together and we will find a solution. I am a former healthcare worker for 20+ years and know the system inside and out, having worked for healthcare institutions and healthcare insurers.  Obamascare is a huge mistake and we let it happen. It's time to TAKE BACK our government. They won't budge until we force them. They will not give it back willingly, make no mistake. My Obamascare plan costs me $734.00 per month. For one healthy person! Let's get together and make this go away.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 23:45 | 4813749 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

Healthcare is ridiculously expensive because many people have convinced themselves of  three things: The answers for good health outcomes rest with pills and procedures rather than good diet and exercise. Death at late stages of life is some strange, recent development in human history which justifies and necessitates extreme, exorbitant payouts to delay it for every possible last second.  And last but not least, thinking that mixing all the myriad of "health care" transactions that result from the just mentioned concepts with health insurance as originally conceived to protect a person from unforeseeable, catastrophic events like an accident is a good idea.

Just because we can does not mean we should, healthcare is like a tape worm ever ready and always wanting to grow larger. Healthcare is the Achilles heel of American competitiveness, our healthcare problems are not for lack of spending, Americans spend more on healthcare then people in other developed countries, but with very poor results. Obamacare has made things much worse. More on the subject of healthcare in the article below.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!