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Edward Snowden's Unaired Remarks About September 11

Tyler Durden's picture




 

There was much said in last week's primetime interview between Edward Snowden and NBC's Brian Williams. But perhaps more interesting than what was said in the one hour time-slot, was what was contained in the three extra hours of conversations that were not broadcast, such as Snowden's questioning of the American intelligence community’s inability to stop the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. One such segment, as transcribed by RT, involves the former NSA contractor's response to a question from Williams on how to prevent further attacks from Al Qaeda and other "non-traditional enemies" in which Snowden suggested that United States had the proper intelligence ahead of 9/11 but failed to act.

“You know, and this is a key question that the 9/11 Commission considered. And what they found, in the post-mortem, when they looked at all of the classified intelligence from all of the different intelligence agencies, they found that we had all of the information we needed as an intelligence community, as a classified sector, as the national defense of the United States to detect this plot,” Snowden said. “We actually had records of the phone calls from the United States and out. The CIA knew who these guys were. The problem was not that we weren’t collecting information, it wasn’t that we didn’t have enough dots, it wasn’t that we didn’t have a haystack, it was that we did not understand the haystack that we have.”

Or, as some have suggested over the years, it was not that "we" did not understand the haystack. Quite the contrary. Which is precisely why the attacks took place. But back to the accepted narrative:

“The problem with mass surveillance is that we’re piling more hay on a haystack we already don’t understand, and this is the haystack of the human lives of every American citizen in our country,” Snowden continued. “If these programs aren’t keeping us safe, and they’re making us miss connections — vital connections — on information we already have, if we’re taking resources away from traditional methods of investigation, from law enforcement operations that we know work, if we’re missing things like the Boston Marathon bombings where all of these mass surveillance systems, every domestic dragnet in the world didn’t reveal guys that the Russian intelligence service told us about by name, is that really the best way to protect our country? Or are we — are we trying to throw money at a magic solution that’s actually not just costing us our safety, but our rights and our way of life?

This goes to the fundamental argument that made Snowden blow the whistle in the first place: by overreaching to a level not fathomed even by the author of "1984", and by scrambling to collect every piece of electronic communication and data exchange, or said otherwise, shotgunning and focusing on the bulk instead of isolating actionable data, what is the tradeoff?

We do know that handing all private data to the NSA on a silve platter has certainly resulted in an abuse of personal privacy by those tasked with protecting Americans as we detailed in the past in "NSA Agents Used Company Resources To Spy On Former Spouses." Who knows how else this epic trove of private data is being abused by the government for its own ulterior motives, while letting, as Snowden suggested, critical information about the protection of US citizens - the very premise behind the NSA's existence - slip through its fingers.

Indeed, the director of the NSA during Snowden’s stint there, Gen. Keith Alexander, reportedly endorsed a method of intelligence gathering in which the agency would collect quite literally all the digital information it was capable of.  “Rather than look for a single needle in the haystack, his approach was, ‘Let’s collect the whole haystack,’” one former senior US intelligence official recently told the Washington Post. “Collect it all, tag it, store it. . . .And whatever it is you want, you go searching for it.”

 

In recent weeks, a leaked NSA document has affirmed that under the helm of Alexander, the agency was told it should do as much as possible with the information it gathers: "sniff it all, know it all, collect it all, process it all and exploit it all,” according to the slide.  “They're making themselves dysfunctional by collecting all of this data,” Bill Binney, a former NSA employee-turned-whistleblower himself, told the Daily Caller last year. Like Snowden, Binney has also argued that the NSA’s “collect it all” condition with regards to intelligence gathering is deeply flawed.

 

“They've got so much collection capability but they can't do everything. They're probably getting something on the order of 80 percent of what goes up on the network. So they're going into the telecoms who have recorded all of the material that has gone across the network. And the telecoms keep a record of it for I think about a year. They're asking the telecoms for all the data so they can fill in the gaps. So between the two sources of what they've collected, they get the whole picture,” Binney said.

 

Although NBC neglected to play Mr. Snowden’s remarks to Williams in which he questioned the efficiency of modern intelligence gathering under the guise of being a counterterrorism tool, it did air on television other remarks from the former contractor concerning the terrorist attacks.

Stepping back, this really is a debate about government efficiency, incentives and motives. The biggest problem with the NSA, or rather its modus operandi, according to Snowden is not that it does not have the architecture to use the data already in its possession to isolate and prevent incidents of terrorism: it did, and arguably it had enough facts in its (and the CIA's) possession to prevent the September 11 attack, and it certainly was equipped with enough surveillance to prevent the Boston Marathon bombing, yet it didn't. In the meantime, the information grab is expanding until Big Brother, under the guise of (failed) protection now knows everything about its citizens. Simply said: this is merely government bloat in its most purest - spending ever greater amounts of money to become increasingly more inefficient, in the process destroying the concept of individual privacy.

Or as Snowden himself said it in a fragment that was aired,

"It’s really disingenuous for the government to invoke and scandalize our memories to sort of exploit the national trauma that we all suffered together and worked so hard to come through to justify programs that have never been shown to keep us safe, but cost us liberties and freedoms that we don’t need to give up and our Constitution says we don’t need to give up."

Sadly, until the people themselves wake up to this conclusion which prompted one person to speak up against a broken system, all of his efforts will have been largely in vain.

 

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Sat, 05/31/2014 - 14:20 | 4812720 bubblemania
bubblemania's picture

American Patriot!

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 14:26 | 4812723 clymer
clymer's picture

More like American Psyop

http://www.youtube.com/user/ae911truth

 

You left out some details, Ed.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 14:30 | 4812735 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

If he doesn't come right out and say that the whole of the 911 tapestry as woven by the government is a travesty, then this is all just meaningless noise and bluster.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 14:39 | 4812747 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Government actions are only concerned about maintaining control.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 14:44 | 4812757 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

9/11 was an inside job

9/11 was not an inside job

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 14:47 | 4812760 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

fast eddie, you're embarrasing yourself. fuck the haystack, you need to look down the rabbit hole.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 15:00 | 4812780 I am more equal...
I am more equal than others's picture

9/11 was a hand job

9/11 was a blow job

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 15:36 | 4812845 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

If he is implying we should believe somebody who knew about 9/11 was not actually planning it, then Snowden is a psiops plant.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:13 | 4812906 Leonardo Fibonacci2
Leonardo Fibonacci2's picture

Snowden is a True American Patriot.  God Bless him!!!

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:19 | 4812919 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

NSA whistleblower Russ Tice said more and earlier:

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2013/06/19/podcast-show-112-nsa-whistleb...

The difference is that Snowden has documents.  The few that have been released, anyway....

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:26 | 4812926 svayambhu108
svayambhu108's picture

If 9/11 was an inside job, was done by an inner circle, so don't expect someone to step out and say we did it, maybe PRISM is for the guardians too to keep them busy till they forget that they are in a prison. A spy that doesn't have to look in a garbage is a rather powerfull person.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 17:58 | 4813183 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

Snowden is just a ventriloquest dummy.   So is Choomboy.

But who has their hand up their asses?  That's the question.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:09 | 4813204 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

The mantra that 'everything and everybody' is 'controlled' and is a 'psyop' is nothing but an excuse to do and say nothing. To give up. 

The idea that Snowden is willing to give up his life on a secret government mission to release millions of it's most classified documents in some sort of psyops mission is pathetically absurd. 

It makes no sense, which is why the 'Snowden is a plant' crowd just posts mindless one liners and never offers a shred of coomon sense or proof to backup such statements. 

Governments cannot control everybody and everything. We have free will. We have choise. Snowden is no plant. Grow the fuck up. 

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:35 | 4813240 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

The government can't control everything but they can control NBC.

Why allow the interview? Why allow it to be broadcast?

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:54 | 4813277 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

Constant Distractions?!?

I've watched for Years now, how the hits just keep coming.

This regime is masters at the MOPE and how they use every scandal to their advantage.

Just stand back and watch and learn grasshopper.

DaddyO

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 23:09 | 4813708 Ocean22
Ocean22's picture

new video on how the elite are killing us slowly MUST watch!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnW8WieZLrQ

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 00:18 | 4813785 gh0atrider
gh0atrider's picture

BUY BITCOIN!

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 03:17 | 4813871 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

yeah right, electronic currency stored on platforms out of your control zooming across a network out of your control on devices out of your control running OSes that you didn't design running on chips you didn't print.

Sounds real smart. 

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 09:21 | 4814031 Mad Muppet
Mad Muppet's picture

How cute....Tfy is feeding the troll! Feeding those less fortunate than oneself is the sign of a pure heart.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 09:32 | 4814058 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Snow Den

Snowed In

Kash Karri

Cash Carry

General Alexander? The great?

No co-incidences. All of these names, all of these NUMBers, 911, 777.....

Learn the game or drop out. No other way.

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2013/01/20/two-hammer-blows-and-a-random...

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:55 | 4813280 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

meet the "telegraphone"

http://www.recording-history.org/HTML/surveillance2.php

recording your phone calls since 1906

hugs,
alexei graham bellkov 

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 14:35 | 4814711 Overfed
Overfed's picture

I would sure love to see that from a more credible source than Veterans Today.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 10:18 | 4814098 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Corect. the titles alone cover the subject perfectly.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 12:49 | 4814441 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

“The problem with mass surveillance is that we’re piling more hay on a haystack we already don’t understand, and this is the haystack of the human lives of every American citizen in our country,”

The surveillance state doesn't bother me one bit, precisely because of this. If a bunch of overpaid, government voyeurs couldn't interpret the data at 9/11 levels, how is adding to the white noise going to improve their ability to pinpoint the actionable data at the right moment?

IMO, this all just adds to the already top-heavy inverted pyramid of the state, and hastens its demise. All we need to do is help it along.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 10:21 | 4814106 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Controlling NBC; would be done in public view; it wouldn't be done in private. it's less of a problem to just let it roll. they know full well, that a.) you're in denial, and b.) you won't do shit about it. so, why bother?

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 19:40 | 4815408 Milton Freewater
Milton Freewater's picture

Good point.  If know one tells us about big brother then how are we supposed to fear him!

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:50 | 4813267 putaipan
putaipan's picture

i find it useful to observe from both perspectives ..... use ellsberg as an example: sure he 'helped' end the vietnam war, but remember- 'they' were ready to end the war.

as for snowdens revelations this round.... ain't it obviuos they were on the 'hands off' list? i can't remember the name of the senator that just revealed that precious tid bit, but god bless him for the single best counter terrorism move in recent history.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 23:34 | 4813748 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

Condelezza Rice ["Condi" as her friends know her] testified to Congress she told Bush she had "credible evidence" there would be a devastating attack very soon, but she said Bush waved her aside saying he preferred going on his summer vacation.

Richard Clark also testifed basically the same thing and said he was ignored by Bush. I remember watching his testimony frm my hotel room in Las Vegas while eating a pizza and remember being shocked that none of the Congressmen were shocked.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 11:52 | 4814282 TrustbutVerify
TrustbutVerify's picture

A plain cheese pizza or with peppers?  (Just want to keep up with what's important.) 

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 22:14 | 4813637 tony wilson
tony wilson's picture

meat trapper some good points

this guy is a james bond geek a genius on computers with billions of bits of intel.

what has he given

maybe on those usb sticks he would have answers 50 fucking years of uk,usa and israel smokin guns.

assange and snow blow are mossad these cunts never disclose on israel cos they are all on the same team disclosing on syria and libya and optimum times for fuck sake.

no intel ever on israel plots and nuclear blackmail

no intel earth quakes filling in the blanks from past history no mention of haarp or tesla weapons

fuckin nuttin

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 10:17 | 4814096 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

No mention of haarp or tesla weapons because they aren't insanely ignorant retards like you; who believe in comic book stories like these. not difficult to understand; once you find out you're an idiot.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 19:36 | 4815397 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

I believe the point of his data dump was to expose the violation of 4th amendment rights. I'm not sure how disclosing stuff about Israel and weapons would do that. If 9/11 was an inside job, I dunno, I myself wouldn't keep it in the files ever at any time. I'm not sure the Jews who are controlling everything are that stupid.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 10:24 | 4814114 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

"grow the fuck up?"/ think rationally ? perhaps ? you're on the wrong forum. this is where the retards have a temper tantrum if you question their latest paranoid fantasy.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 20:15 | 4813423 Oxbo Rene
Oxbo Rene's picture

If you people don't stop gossiping about this, you could be neutralized ! ! !
Nothing to see here, move along ! ! ! !

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 21:21 | 4813533 aVileRat
aVileRat's picture

You have no idea how funny your comment actually is when placed in a larger context.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/08/the-attack-in-bengha...

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 20:38 | 4813463 VAD
VAD's picture

As much as I'd like to believe Snowden without question, I have a creeping feeling you're right.  I've not been able to put my finger on it, but I am suspicious that it's just another psy-op.  I hope I'm wrong...

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 23:40 | 4813756 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

The search for truth is filled with twists and turns...but always begins with the same question "what don't I know?" And then you go from there.

We don't know who was behind or knew in advance of the attacks on 9/11.

Be interesting to see what George W Bush has to say of them actually.

Here's what we do know: "the NSA has admitted to being surprised by them"(they are the only Agency to say that) and I absolutely believe this to be true because they shoved "their boss the President" onto Air Force One and flew him to "the Command Bunker in Nebraska."

In short "the NSA went full retard."

And apparently still is.

Here is another fact for you to dwell on: "who is responsible should the NSA act in a manner that is clearly unconstitutional...and indeed criminal"?

(Cue "scary/mystery television music scene" with Hercule Poiroit staring blankly into camera.)

Basically..."the whole thing was a set up" in my view...but unless and until "W" says something "we just keep rockin and rollin" here.

In short "who wouldn't want to blame the President?"

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 10:13 | 4814090 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

"elements of the Cia, and the Mossad knew; because they planned it and carried it out. Bush knew what he alwalys knows on a day to day basis; nothing. why should he? the NSA? a non-functional government bureacracy; useful mainly for wasting money. The CIA/Mossad as the perpetrators is obtained by the process of elimination. there isn't anyone else even on the list. It was organized; an organized, planned, technical, demolition, that made use of airplanes as a cover story. So, you get to pick an organization. The Boy Scouts of America? The Republican Political Party? The PTA? there isn't even any other organization on the list; CIA/Mossad. lot's of evidence.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 10:15 | 4814093 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Well, you can relax now; you're wrong. go ahead and believe him.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 23:17 | 4813722 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

NOT reacting on prior knowledge.

Like Pearl Harbor.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 23:30 | 4813741 Drifter
Drifter's picture

It doesn't matter if 9/11 was inside job or not.   99% of Americans believe it wasn't, and the other 1% wouldn't do anything about it if they could prove it was.

Knowledge doesn't yeild results.  Action yields results, and the action won't ever happen.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:26 | 4812922 svayambhu108
svayambhu108's picture

The world is complex.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:58 | 4813025 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

once you realise they're lying about everything - including corporate "nationstates" - and the aim is to grow the sheeple whilst extracting their "cut" along the way via taxes, corporate profits, "health" care, etc.

then it all seems rather simple.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 17:18 | 4813084 Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

+1000 Excellent!!

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:01 | 4813187 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

oooeeerrr!

fancy meeting you here. . .

((hope you're doing well))

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:43 | 4813253 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

And so is our government. Its just too damn big!

This subject demonstrates the critical issue with governmental systems. Outside of corruption every government failure leads it to only become larger rather than actually solve the problem. This growth perpetuates even more failure as the solution was never truly resolved and if it were actually studied they would have found that size was the problem all along.

The intelligence agencies failed and the only response was to become larger and collect even more data that became even more impossible to analyze. Its just plain stupid but as they see their mission to act, they will, even if it means the end of freedom and the end of America.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 19:36 | 4813364 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

"The intelligence agencies failed and the only response was to become larger and collect even more data that became even more impossible to analyze. Its just plain stupid but as they see their mission to act, they will, even if it means the end of freedom and the end of America."

EXACTLY!

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 02:33 | 4813861 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"No POW's" and "blame the President." Not a question of who did it but who didn't.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 19:26 | 4813344 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

The Smashing Pumpkins - Bullet With Butterfly Wings (lyrics)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oGDTbONRtc (4:24)

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 10:02 | 4814082 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

No it isn't. Once you start looking at it right side up; it's so simple it's boring.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 10:00 | 4814080 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

As usual; it's important to do your homework. as usual; you didn't. what did the NSA know? what did they pass on to the CIA? believe it or not this is a matter of public record; you can actually look it up. The NSA knew very dangerous AlQaeda operatives were living in the US; they had their addresses and listened to their phone calls to and from their "mission control house" a private dwelling in Yemen. they had no details of what kind of mischief these people were likely to be involved in; nor any information on timing thereof. Your comment, "knew about 9/11" is an example of simplifying a subject to the point where it becomes an absurdity. the NSA/CIA filed miserably in their jobs. the facts are substantially as Snowden states they are; giving them more power and authority is not a decision that can be supported by the "increased need for public safety"; it's a decision, like the "Patriot Act"; which is perfectly rational to take for a Faschist Dictatorship; they always want to know everything about everyone. it's a key characteristic. The Nazi, well, the original Nazi, I should say, filing system on the normal legitimate German Citizens was absolutely enormous. they're always paranoid because they know they're crooks and thugs.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 15:04 | 4812786 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

Fast eddie knows the whole thing was a false flag. He just doesn't want to admit it explicitly... why not? Maybe it'll give the us media an excuse to label him a conspircay theorist.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 15:56 | 4812871 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

However, the very fact that this information is becoming more and more public means the apocalypse is right around the corner.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 17:55 | 4813172 CognacAndMencken
CognacAndMencken's picture

 

 

Ahh yes... the apocalypse is right around the corner... has been for the last decade.... right around the corner.  The silver market is going to parity with gold...... right around the corner.  The gold market is going to $5000.... right around the corner.  The dollar is going to collapse..... right around the corner.  The COMEX is going to implode..... right around the corner.  Hyperinflation is imminent.... right around the corner.  The US government is going to kill its civilians with drones..... right around the corner. 

What is it like to live in constant fear and paranoia?  What is it like to live within such far-fetched, rigid paradigms that anything which occurs outside your apocalyptic world view is -- must be! -- conspiratorial?  

And by the way....what is the difference between NSA listening to your calls, and websites putting cookies in your computer?  

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:11 | 4813206 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

What is it like to live in constant fear and paranoia?  What is it like to live within such far-fetched, rigid paradigms that anything which occurs outside your apocalyptic world view is -- must be! -- conspiratorial?  

There's definitely some truth to various conspiracy theories floated over the years, but people get way too into it. What exactly has been the benefit of all that secret knowledge?

Also, a lot of people who seem to have not adapted well to the changing world and find lots of convenient scapegoats while very much pining for an apocalypse. Probably should remember life is short so get out of the bunker more. 

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 19:12 | 4813321 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

Whoops. Jimmy fell for the astroturfer.

The thing about Apocalypse is, it's never real until it's Now.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 20:45 | 4813478 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

"What exactly has been the benefit of all that secret knowledge?"

You have to identify and define the cancer before you can kill it.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:32 | 4813233 riphowardkatz
riphowardkatz's picture

whats the difference? The governnent has a monopoly on the use of force. You dont have to go to the website you have to obey the governnments mandates regardless of their morality or suffer the consequences. there is a world of difference and the fact you can't see it shows clearly how corrupted an individual you are. You think force is something to throw around and use to achieve values you never earned. You are the one that lives the miserable life and will one day learn that you cannot have your cake and eat it to.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 23:17 | 4813721 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

That and you CAN block cookies if you choose.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:35 | 4813242 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

I don't fear the apocalypse! I embrace it. The apocalypse is "The great revealing of hidden truth." This is what will happen when silver goes to parity with gold, when gold goes to 5000, when the dollar collapses, when the comex implodes, when the dollar hyperinflates. I embrace the apocalyse. How could you not? I don't understand this sentence:

What is it like to live within such far-fetched, rigid paradigms that anything which occurs outside your apocalyptic world view is -- must be! -- conspiratorial?  

That makes no sense to me.

 

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 19:05 | 4813301 Wait What
Wait What's picture

we are living the apocalypse. people don't even realize it. Everything since 2008, all the NSA, libor/comex/bonds/equities/etc. manipulation, outed corruption has been an exercise in apokalupsis. when all the manipulation in the world is laid bare for the world to see(apo-kaluptein), then we can finally make the choice to purge the world of its perpetrators. that is what is most frightening to authorities about apocalyse. it's why they fight it tooth and nail. "... must... keep... everything... secret...!!"

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 20:23 | 4813436 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

The truth is breaking free. They won't be able to contain it much longer.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 01:22 | 4813836 JustUsChickensHere
JustUsChickensHere's picture

Upvote from me for expanding my vocabulary ... apokalupsis... from the Greek ... = revelation

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 08:50 | 4814019 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Jesus says the Apocalypse is merely "the separating of the false from the true".  As the light in this world grows dimmer, we say bring it!

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 11:11 | 4814197 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

Gold= true money

Paper= false money

So will we see a divergence in the prices of these two things?

Jesus says so.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 11:36 | 4814236 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

And what did the Three Wise Men bring as gifts to celebrate his birth?  Was it GLD coupons, FRNs, and pure Monsanto seeds?

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 14:15 | 4814665 juangrande
juangrande's picture

I don't know if anybody actually knows what Jesus said or if he even existed. But a lot of what is attributed to him makes a ton of sense from a certain perspective. It also correlates well with what all  major religions say, once the chaff is removed.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 20:11 | 4813328 Xanthias
Xanthias's picture

The difference, you anaphoric windbag, is that the NSA listening to my phone calls without a FISA warrant is in violation of the Fourth Amendment and illegal, whereas I can allow or deny cookies on my computer.  Sheesh...

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 21:21 | 4813537 Pickleton
Pickleton's picture

...the govt may very well use the data gathered to kill certain groups of people.  There have certainly been enough indications in passed bills, exec orders, released policy docs, billions in bullets that they're gearing up for something....

The companies may very well use the data gathered to sell to targeted advertisers and or to sell me something. 

 

 

 

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 21:07 | 4813514 AllWorkedUp
AllWorkedUp's picture

Upvoted you because the truth is that none of this has happened yet.

"Ahh yes... the apocalypse is right around the corner... has been for the last decade.... right around the corner.  The silver market is going to parity with gold...... right around the corner.  The gold market is going to $5000.... right around the corner.  The dollar is going to collapse..... right around the corner.  The COMEX is going to implode..... right around the corner.  Hyperinflation is imminent.... right around the corner.  The US government is going to kill its civilians with drones..... right around the corner"

 I did think some of it would. It didn't, and I have paid dearly for the experience.

 As for Snowden, I think he's a phony. Not necessarily because he didn't out 9/11 for the fraud and false flag it was, but because if he were truly an NSA whistleblower and double agent so to speak, he would never get the amount of press he's gotten, he'd have been taken out immediately.

 As for the NSA and their spying on Americans capability, it is a psyop that tries to make us believe they have a handle on everything. Total bullshit, they do not. The US govt. cannot prevent medicare or social security fraud. They can't track their own spending. They have no idea (or maybe they do) where the Pentagon lost $2 trillion just prior to 9/11.

 It's all bullshit meant to keep us all in line.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 09:39 | 4814064 FlyingDutchman
FlyingDutchman's picture

What's it like to be spoon fed what to believe, what is good for you, who your enemies are etc?

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:14 | 4812909 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

The point of Snowden's lecturing Williams is to anchor the myth of 9/11  which is steadily eroding in the American mind.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:29 | 4812951 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

So you think Snowden still works for the CIA?

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:46 | 4813259 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

Perhaps a Double Agent. The False Flag of 911 was a cover for the real high Financial Crimes being conducted that day. Building Seven held all the evidence. The Twin Towers held all the Gold.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 19:39 | 4813370 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

ignatius...this is the best call on the post

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 21:23 | 4813542 Pickleton
Pickleton's picture

"The Twin Towers held all the Gold"

 

and it magically vaporized from tons of rubble falling on it?

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 10:09 | 4814086 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

No, it was trucked out the night before.  Two semis and a small army got it out just in the nick of time.  We saw the security cam footage years ago.  Maybe it's still available.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 21:43 | 4815704 flyingcaveman
flyingcaveman's picture

Vaultium is what you get when the gold in the vault experience a runnaway chain reaction due to a financial system meltdown.  That's probably what the molten liquid was.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 21:39 | 4813569 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Technically, i think that scenario would make Snowden a triple agent: 101

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:31 | 4812954 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

"no no, Eddie knows!!  he just can't say, he's too clever"

so folks just rewrite what is actually HAPPENING to suit their mind-narrative, so no dissonance occurs. . .

*hands over ears*  lalalalallalala - I CAN'T HEAR YOU

 

sigh. . . upvoted ya Ignatius. . .

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:35 | 4812965 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

No amount of sarcasm cancels out the fact that the situation is uncertain.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:54 | 4813015 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

How can someone of Snowden's age, position and intelligence NOT be aware of 9/11 criticism?

Personally, I suspect Snowden is a psyop, though I can't prove it.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 17:05 | 4813042 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

John Rapoport wrote an article on it-- he says it is an internal turf war between CIA and NSA cuz CIA wants all of the funding for itself.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 20:42 | 4813474 BlackChicken
BlackChicken's picture

Jon was all over the Snowden fable from day one; his position and logic is strong enough to raise serious questions/doubts in the minds of any that once believed the story as it was told to us.

I don't know about the agency fights, but I don't believe the story about Ed one little bit; the whole thing just doesn't add up.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 17:10 | 4813061 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

the narrative "proves" it for me. . .

young "clever-geek" (with hot-babe girlfriend) embedded in the .gov, escapes with media watching stories, a regular ole villain-chase, even ties in wikileaks, then goes to the Manly-Putin's safe hands. . . 

meanwhile parking his story with a specially selected Jewish Lawyer who happens to write for the Guardian newsy-group in the UK, whereupon some NEWS is leaked, THEN the lawyer is courted by a billionaire, coup-funding-via-CIA-"NGO"-cover, pals with the White House residents, who sets him up with his very own webbysite - that appears to not want to post stories?   lol.

THEN the book, and Sony options the movie, to be made by the same folks who put together

JAMES FUCKING BOND movies, and Zero Dark Thirty tales.

oh yeah.  this is epic, should make BANK, and loadsa fans.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 17:18 | 4813086 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

We're on the same page regarding Snowden.

By proof I mean legal proof.  I'm like the judge following the law while writing in his personal notes "I hardy believe a single thing this guy is saying".

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 17:47 | 4813160 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

wot, like Glenn GreenWald "legal proof"?

just pokin' ya Ig. . .

but!  don't hold yer breath, once your mind starts probing about the rarefied air of non-reported tales of intrigue

you either pick a single narrative thread and run with it

or you realise it's all just a huge farce, cut your ties,

and breath deeply, free.

it's that last step, the "free"-fall, that always clinches it.

take care.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 22:11 | 4813632 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Reminds me of how the Soviets, even factoring in the WTF? factor and surveillance dissection potential, allowed Oswald to be sheep dipped under their noses so long and effectively only (after not NOT being admitted into Russia) to be returned without any resistance to the USA as an ex-military defector from the RED MENACE at the height of the Cold War commie paranoia.

Makes me think the broad strokes of Antony Sutton go far deeper and sharper than one can imagine

http://digitaljournal.com/article/326318

or can it be imagined?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyobpFUX6no

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 22:36 | 4813668 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Addendum:

To complete the thought, one might imagine Snowden is to Oswald as JFK is to the Fourth Amendment.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:55 | 4813281 putaipan
putaipan's picture

and quicker than you can say ellsburg,chomsky and amy goodwin....you've got a new generation of "controlled opposition".

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 14:30 | 4814695 juangrande
juangrande's picture

Speaking of conspiricies, and admittedly one I'm not very up to date anymore, I saw a show about the JFK assasination. Basically, it claimed the "headshot" had to have come from the trailing secret service car and that some agent named Hickey had pulled an AR-15 out and shot the pres. Their evidence was compelling! They then speculated that he was responding to Oswald's first two shots and as he stood to swing his weapon toward's the book depository, the car surged ahead and he fell back into his seat accidentally discharging the AR into Kennedy's head. They also speculated Oswald had fired 2 shots previous to that; one that hit the street and fragments grazed the Pres, the second ( magic bullet) actually hit Kennedy in the back, passed thru and struck Connelly. They explained that because of the position of the jumpseat that the Gov. was in, the trajectories of that bullet were entirely feasible.

 

They claimed that the likely accidental shooting by Hickey was covered up by the SS out of sheer embarrasment. Personally, I think the scenario is quite plausible, until the "accident" part.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:45 | 4813257 Robot Traders Mom
Robot Traders Mom's picture

The point of Snowden's lecturing Williams is to anchor the myth of 9/11  which is steadily eroding in the American mind.

 

It is scary more people, especially on ZH, aren't seeing this. Lending the '9/11 Commission' and the official Donald Rumsfeld story, credibility??? What the fuck is that about? 

 

I understand people are desperate to see someone fight back against the PTB. However, that shouldn't blind you to obvious bullshit, like this. The same media 99% of you don't trust, has made this dude their darling. Open your eyes...

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 19:45 | 4813381 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

You got it.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 20:05 | 4813414 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Exactly. And look at all the junks for people pointing out the hypocrisy of Snowden on 9/11.

Apparently this place is falling apart too.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 20:38 | 4813449 flyingcaveman
flyingcaveman's picture

But dude, boxcutters man. Didn't you hear about the box cutters? 

 

I'm starting to think the boxcutter theory is BS now.  Was the box cutter recovered with prints next to the passports do don't need on domestic flights?  Somebody remind me of what the official story is on that.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 21:33 | 4813558 Pickleton
Pickleton's picture

theory?

At least 3 passengers, including Barbara Olson confirmed knives on #77, that hit the Pentagon:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1543000/1543466.stm

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 21:42 | 4813568 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

A plane hit the Pentagon?

You're a brainwashed idiot if you believe that.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 21:53 | 4813579 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Yes BOP, a plane hit the Pentagon. A commercial aircraft actually. Flown by a bunch of rag heads with box cutters that learned how to fly on single engine cessna's. They flew it 400 mph through pentagon aerospace and glided less than a hundred feet off the ground so they could hit it straight on.

Yup!

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 00:33 | 4813799 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Well, I had friends who were actually there and that is what they believed. What's your source?

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 03:31 | 4813876 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

i notice you said "believed" instead of "witnessed".

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 04:03 | 4813880 The_Prisoner
The_Prisoner's picture

Oh, snap!

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 11:21 | 4814213 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

But not just any commercial aircraft.  No, this particular model was built of carbon enforced titanium.  It also sported the unique custom folding wing package so that it could puncture a beautiful little hole in heavily reinforced buildings, such as the Pentagon.  Sheeit, it was like a needle going into your arm yeeeehaw whoop whoop whoop!!!!

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 15:11 | 4814798 Pickleton
Pickleton's picture

I didnt say that, now did I dickhead.

 

I said people on flight 77 confirmed the hijackers used knives.  Perhaps if you learned to read you wouldn't be an idiot.

Wed, 06/04/2014 - 15:24 | 4824199 Pesky Labrador
Pesky Labrador's picture

They've proven that the cell technology would not of allowed those cell phone calls at that time. Next?

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 05:52 | 4813919 flyingcaveman
flyingcaveman's picture

I don't know if you know this, but metal detectors have been around since before 9/11.  You couldn't just take them on the plane with you before that.  They had secure areas but anybody could go there and wait by the gates if you went  through the metal detector.  My dad was going to wait with me at the gate one time and had his pocket knife with him that they thought was to big so he had to leave it there and pick it up on the way out after my flight left. He wasn't even going to get on the plane. They didn't even have to lock-down the airport or anything.  but it wasn't like there was no security pre-9/11  I don't see how multiple people could have gotten onto multiple flights without being detected and not raising any suspicion.   Even longer ago, this is how guns were treated, and before that you just bring your gun right on the plane with you but I'm not old enough to remember those days. 

It would be pretty difficult to kill anybody with a box cutter too, more of a slashing tool more than a stabbing one.  I can't believe people would just sit there and watch some terrorist stab somebody to death and not do anything.  Why would you believe a terrorist who says they have a bomb onboard when they can't even get a gun onboard.  They lose all credibility because if they wanted to blow up the plane they probably could have done it without suiciding themselves to do it.  Seems like the last thing a hijacker would want is a bunch of chaos, fighting everybody off with only a box cutter.  Shit, they could get overrun and overpowed even with handguns.  They'd wan't the people calm and reassured that everything will be alright if they sit there and do nothing.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 17:42 | 4813145 flyingcaveman
flyingcaveman's picture

The government didn't need a false flag to usher in a security state, we already had a security state. He pretty much said that.  They could have let us go on fat, dumb, and happy as it was.  So, it must be something else.  Maybe someone was about to find out who is really running the government or discovered what causes spontaneous financial combustion.  Oh, its not any of those? Good, I'm glad the government we elected is still in charge and keeping us safe and ensuring the stability of our currency.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 21:57 | 4813606 Flagit
Flagit's picture

Yea, cause the last thing he wants is for the media to demonize him. Fucking retarded.

Back to your regularly scheduled Box-cutter Theater of Terror. Highlights from last week, missing plane wreckage on the Pentagon lawn, missing footage of Pentagon "missile", missing orders to shoot down the non-responsive aircraft, or even missing wreckage from a big smoldering hole in the middle of nowhere.

If you need actual phys proof try our Thermite Dust Hors d'oeuvre, Asbestos Passports, and Free-fall Bld 7 egg-drop soup.

The whole story is glued together with Laffy Taffy.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 12:36 | 4814401 StateofFraud
StateofFraud's picture

Exactly. The surveillance is not to protect the pulblic from terrorists, it's so that, if someone steps out of line, they know every possible way to fuck them over, ruin lives, blackmail, or drone them. It is about control, power, and punishment.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 23:14 | 4813717 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Maybe the answer you want is actually not the truth. Of course you are not required to believe anything in particular.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 23:21 | 4813724 Drifter
Drifter's picture

"this is all just meaningless noise and bluster."

Absolutely.  Worthless mumbo jumbo. 

Snowden said nothing of any value.  His story is the govt story right down the line.  They had lots of data, they should have known, but they didn't have the "architecture" to use the data in a productive way.  That's the govt story right down the line.  So he said nothing new.

If he had anything new to say NBC would not have released the interview to the public. It IS NBC after all.

I don't see where Snowden has done anything productive.  He hasn't "released" anything of value. He may have intel Putin wants but he's not releasing it publicly.

He may not be a plant, but he is a distraction.  One of many distractions, planned or not, just like all the other "whistleblowers" out there. None have said anything of value, they're all distractions.

When you parrot the govt story 99% and "reveal" 1%, one meaningless little tidbit, all you do is strengthen the govt story, people are hearing it again, and repetition is their most effective tool.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 14:32 | 4812738 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

This, here is our chief "Conspiracy Theory" guy, claiming that 911 was done by 11 Saudi nationals.

Psy-op: Prooved.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 14:47 | 4812761 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Yes. I'm certainly rethinking everything about this guy now. I assume his credibilty just took a huge hit for most ZHers.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 14:50 | 4812764 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

I've considered him controlled opposition since day one - the story doesn't check out. Ever. His body language and speech mannerisms are quite indicative of rehearsal. People have been asking for a while, "what happened on nine eleves, Eddie?"

Well, now you know.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 15:02 | 4812784 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

we need pics of eddie and gene playing golf in newtown. that'll settle it

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 15:15 | 4812796 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

the jury is still out for me. he's 30 which makes him 16 when 9/11 happened. so i can accept that he fell for the premise of it, as absurd as it is in hindsight. 

I sat near a dude while training for a new job job a long time ago whose job was to read company emails. This was around 2005 and he had recently been assigned this task when i got hired ( he was also pretty new).  for about a day or two he found it amusing. he would loosely tell me what he was reading when we grabbed lunch. within a week he was completely disgusted with himself and his employer and soon quit. I remember how disturbing he found it  to read about affairs and other things people thought were private. It messed him up. So i believe Snowden could have gone through that on a higher level and thought he could change the world. 

Maybe 2 people I know watched that interview, and neither one of them found it very compelling. 9/11 happened and now the gov't has to look up your asshole when you go to the movies and stare at you through your webcam. everyone else i know did not find the subject interesting enough to even bother to watch. sheeple. So to me, snowden passed the smell test, but he is totally screwed. At this point i just want to see if my name is on that master list that is coming out so i can frame it or put it on a t shirt.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 15:23 | 4812807 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

when the sovereign set up camp in the castle in the day, he located it at the top of the hill. that so he could watch the peasants grow his food and weave his robes. spying is nothing new and snowden lends nothing to the debate except fear and anxiety. that's his handle. big brother is watching and the gulag will not have wifi...

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 15:27 | 4812823 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

that interview reminds me of cnbc. the ratings for it sucked. Nobody watched it. we all joke about how the ratings for cnbc suck and yet many of us on here are the ones who watch it, waiting to see the market collapse live. Many of us also watched the snowden interview. the sheeple just watch HGTV while shopping online. they can't be bothered with this.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 15:50 | 4812862 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

i missed the interview. no tv since college days. liston/ali is when i checked out. have never voted either. proud the fuck of it

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:25 | 4813225 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

tough to say. i didnt watch it live either, saw it later. and, i confess, i do occasionally watch cnbc. not to get investing, but because i want to see their expressions and hear their excuses on why the market inevitably goes to shit.that siad, i  think he is legit, or at least i want to. but the fact that a network as govt controlled as nbc even aired the interview at all kinda makes me wonder. but him seeing all the stuff the govt spies on doesnt neccessarily make him privy to shit like that. and like you said above, he was 16 when it happened. i was 15. i didnt question the narrative at all then. I was a republican, neo-con, believer. lets go kill those fuckers. nuke their ass and take their gas. it took me a while. hell, even in 08, as much as i liked ron paul's domestic policy and monetary policy, i thought his foreign policy ideas were crazy. i was one of those deployed military people who didnt get their ballot back then, but i would have voted for mcstain in 08, and he is now in my top 5 worst politicians. we all come around at different times and for different reasons

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 23:17 | 4813719 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I like HGTV. It's on in half the waiting rooms in America.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:44 | 4813255 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

The idea that Snowden is a plant, and that the Feds released millions of classified documents to "scare people" makes sense only if people are now living in fear. They are not. Most Americans think he's a traitor and deserves jail time for helping the bad guys.

Most Americans have no problem with being spied upon - just like most Americans have no problem putting up with the TSA or giving up liberty for temporary security. Most Americans want Big Brother. 

The Feds had no need to "plant" Snowden.

It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 21:08 | 4813516 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Have to agree. He's not a plant.

Most Americans being churned out of publik skools these days only have some vague idea of "the right" of newspapers to print newspapers...lol. They couldn't point to the exact Amendment specifying the governments ACKNOWLEDGEMENT of that (or any) pre-existing right (before any US government ever existed) if the NSA stuck a gun in their mouth and gave them three seconds to do so.

The absolute last thing the uber-statists inside the US government wanted was the average Jane & Joe Public getting interested in their rights and Googling what exactly has been (and is) being stolen from them by indoctrination.

It makes zero sense. They don't want them looking into the purpose and evolution of the Magna Carta or Bastiat etc...its against their interests.

He's legit.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 21:16 | 4813524 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I agree. I think he is legit, and unfortunately for him, I think he is in a bad spot. I have a feeling Putin has more to gain at this point by cutting him loose from there and he ends up back here. He gets back here and there is some initial support for him, but eventually he just ends up in the slammer. Putin is probably banking on that and can then turn around and say "Look what the big bad U.S does to people who fight for the truth, we gave him refuge, they threw him in jail".

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 07:34 | 4813964 nmewn
nmewn's picture

He should be careful, he's fucking with Putin too.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-17/snowden-asks-putin-whether-russia-spies-on-millions-like-u-s-.html

“We do it of course, but we don’t allow ourselves such a massive, out-of-control scale,” Putin said about gathering communications in the fight against terrorism and financial crime, after a hasty translation by one of the television channel’s presenters. “I hope we will not get there.”

Subtle threat?

“The most important is that our special services, thank God, are under strict control by the state and society and that their activities are regulated by law,” Putin said."

Right Vlad, because all governments, for all time, have put the interests of its citizens first, tightly controlled & regulated...by law...even...lol.

Be careful Ed.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 23:18 | 4813714 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

He's probably not unfortunately... wish it were not so...

Here's Greenwalds sponser and close Obama friend Pierre Omidyar for you...

http://pando.com/2014/03/23/revealed-visitor-logs-show-full-extent-of-pi...

Now is he seriously going to publish anything Obama doesn't want published?

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 11:56 | 4813961 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well, I guess there are two ways of looking at it.

If Obama wants to stomp on the very last kernel of trust, faith and ahem, "hope" left in the US government in order to finally convert it into whatever the fuck he thinks it should be, then I suppose yes.

But thats not what & who he is. He genuinely believes in the "goodness" of vast, unelected, unfeeling, completely unaccountable bureaucracies, with technocrats controlling them and in the growth of them.

All one has to do is look at what he has done/approved of as proof of that statement.

This (NSA) is just one more example of his beliefs failure. And its a systemic failure too. They can't create jobs by "creating" money from thin air, as this is always short term and the debt remains long after the newly unemployed shows up in the unemployment line (shovel ready). They can't make a functional website given hundred of millions of dollars and years to do it (ObamaCare). They can't apply tax law fairly & evenly (rogue IRS agents, really?...lol). They can't even protect their own people abroad or even here at the VA...I could go on.

Its not what he or they ever wanted the general public to know about or be seen in all its naked glory. They gain nothing from the people seeing this and we're not ever going to shut up about it, cowering & quivering like some beaten dog in the corner.

Its not who we are, they gained nothing.

//////////

I've apparently made some card carrying unionized or uber-statist progressive egghead angry...lol...my day is complete ;-)

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 17:18 | 4815108 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Greenwald is certainly compromised.

Snowden? Perhaps not but I think that's a long shot.

Let's wait to see what Snowden does after Greenwald presents his "Fireworks in the sky" ending. I suspect the list will be seen in posterity as more important for the names that were not on it rather than those that were.

 

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 15:53 | 4812869 walküre
walküre's picture

He's in Russia. If he's not legit, we would have heard from Putin by now. I'm sure the Russians had their scope up his rectum before granting him asylum and access to Putin.

Although there are no publicly available images showing that the two ever met in person. Either way, the Russians sort of legitimized Snowden's status and credibility.

Unless .... the Russians are using the situation to their advantage knowing full well Snowden is US psyop but it helps the Russians image of the good samaritan.

My head just exploded.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:57 | 4813024 BigJim
BigJim's picture

For arguments sake... say 911 was a complete inside job* and Snowden were a way to put people off the scent, by making it appear he was a true American patriot by releasing all this top secret stuff, but saying that 911 was as the official story says (carried out by a bunch of Saudis without US help or knowledge). You could even argue this was his entire purpose. Well, the Russians probably want to have the same intelligence gathering abilities as the NSA so they can spy on 'their' citizens too. If Russia grant Snowden asylum, it appears to lend credence to his 'fugitive from the US long arm of the Deep State' status and thus give him more credibility... and his 911 misdirections would allow the Russians to say 'See! This terrism stuff is a clear and present danger! We need to expand our security state too!'

You can come up with a rationale for anythng if you try hard enough.

*I'm inclined to believe AQ planned it, the CIA found out, and the Deep State made sure it happened as planned, and added a few of their own touches, like WTC7)

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 17:26 | 4813115 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

I upvoted the bulk of your analysis, but feel quite confident that it was Deep State start to finish.

Putin is implicated in Moscow apartment bombings which helped bring him to power.

Not black and white.  It's all gray hats IMHO

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 17:43 | 4813148 logicalman
logicalman's picture

If you look at the physics, you know that the standard narrative is bullshit.

If you look at the financial transactions surrounding the event, you know the standard narrative is bullshit.

If you look at the security companies involved, you know.......

If you realize that all the security cameras in the Pentagon were on the fritz, you know........

When you look at the US Air Force response, you know........

I don't have any answers, but I sure as hell don't believe the answers given by TPTB

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 22:07 | 4813628 Flagit
Flagit's picture

Not nearly enough green on that comment.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 19:01 | 4813293 putaipan
putaipan's picture

hands off list ......

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 23:33 | 4813743 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

BigJim, you are the first conspiracist that I like. I at least like the honesty.

For the record, I think 9-11 was pretty much as you saw it. I believe we actually have a bumbling bureaucracy that is more concerned on a daily personal basis with leaving work at 4:59pm each day until one day they collect their pensions...than actually accomplishing anything. They are more concerned with staying out of trouble than finding trouble. Only after something goes wrong do they go "Holy shit!" And start reexamine their SOP's.

I am infuriated with the abject stupidity of the Tsarnev brothers but it strikes me as consistent with how our government works. They are more about harassing the sheep than taking on wolves. That is why it it easier and more profitable to run speed traps than catch bad guys. Same goes for your IRS audit versus catching Soros wrecking currencies.

I know the hate mail will come but I think I want to register a contrarian opinion here to what used to be a contrarian open thought website.

For the record I am not a Zionist, neo-fascist, Bilderberg, Illuminati, false flag, john Birch, alien abduction, Manchurian, Mossad, NSA, CIA, KGB, operative. I could not possibly keep up with that many membership cards, secret meeting minutes or frequent conspiracy miles.

Cheers.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 11:38 | 4814238 BigJim
BigJim's picture

The 'imcompetence' theory has a lot going for it. It's hard to imagine 'them' getting away with such a massive crime without one of the principals eventually coming clean.

Having said that. soldiers routinely keep schtum about the most incredible things they've done and witnessed, if they either believe they are obliged to for 'national security' reasons, or fear having their lives destroyed if they speak out.

So, say, if most of the low-level operatives involved were foreign agents, who later saw their country benefit hugely from the policies 911 'justified', then they probably would feel the ends clearly justified the means. Job well done! And at the cost of only 3000 foreigners!

There are just too many fishy things. The 'private' testimony given to the 911 commission that never saw the light of day (some of it by the janitor? who was later given a medal for bravery, who swore there were a series of enormous explosions in the basements before the flights impacted), WTC7, the fact that an enormous plane flew into the pentagon but its wings/engines left no damage to the building or detritus... once you start reading up on it the weirdnesses mount and mount.

And it's very hard to know who to trust on the subject. If members of the government were behind it, they have a reason to lie, those who should have seen it coming will obfuscate; many of the truthers seem to be more than a little crazy; how do you seek out the primary documents and evidence, and know it's genuine... I remember seeing construction workers on the site of the disaster standing near giant beams that had been sheared off at 45 degrees similar to a controlled demolition; when were those taken? After the cleanup, when they may have done it to remove debris? Or immediately after the disaster, when it would be clear evidence of demolition?

Then there's all those stories about molten metal being found days/weeks afterwards in the foundations, and thermite, and this, and that... and the CIA showing off to visitors its ability to hack into OBL private phone calls...

I don't know how much (if any) of the official story should be believed. They don't hesitate to lie to us about everything else. And they're clearly capable of mass murder if it suits their purposes. So colour me a (reluctant) truther.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 17:03 | 4813035 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

Or maybe they are all on the same side and the West vs East is just a bigger version of Left vs Right.

We fight and divide ourselves while they make money.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:32 | 4813236 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

That was certainly the case in the past (the fake 'Cold War' used to control all unaligned countries and justify military and 'national security' directives), BUT it seems like Russia has decided to rebel, so we are now arriving at a truly multipolar world.

Illuminati Russia/China still have many strategic interests in common with Illuminati Germany/USA/France/UK, but they aren't under a single command like before, so much more room to maneuver exists for independent states...

To find out more about how it works, check out this high-level ex-illuminati tell-all: http://svalispeaks.com/

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:39 | 4812975 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

This answer does nothing to lessen his legitimacy, and I'm personally sure 9/11 was not as advertised. Do we suppose that the people who knew about the plot have left smoking guns throughout our intelligence databases? Snowden saw the same information most analysts did, all of which conforms to the official narrative.

Does he think it was an inside job? If he does, someone noted above that saying so would damage his credibility with 'average' Americans. He seems rather informed and intelligent, so I assume he knows the government was involved. He said what he did to put it in the context of information gathering/use, and he elaborated rather eloquently on this theme later. I don't buy that this fellow is a plant. He's affirmed too much, and Greenwald has more to publish.  There could be more that he doesn't know about, but IF there's worse, would Americans be more or less inclined to believe that, given what he has already revealed? I don't  see much upside for the system. This may be a loose end that they simply missed. 

What is truly incredible to me is the degree of control the controllers have over his former colleagues; supposedly thousands of people had access to this information, and only one came forward. And those who say silence cannot be maintained to further a conspiracy should think twice: thousands of people knew about the orwellian surveillance for more than a decade and said naught. 

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 05:45 | 4813915 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I think there is a big difference in knowing about NSA surveillance and something that actually blows up buildings and kills thousands. The moral clarity is a lot easier in the second compared to the first. Spying was "legal" authorized through FISA, etc. For the average government drone (meaning worker not weapon) that is all you need. A $200k salary and a large moral gray area...that'll work for most.

If America has enough corrupt people in government to cover up a 9-11 inside job then turly, we are screwed and it is game over. If you really truly believe it, not wonder, not suspect, not theorizing...that the US govenment really set it up then you should be plotting a rebellion at this moment. I mean that seriously. If we have a government that will directly murder it's own citizens en masse then we have arrived at the Adolf, Mao, Idi Amin, Vlad Dracul level of government and all rule of law is officially gone. We would functionally be in a foreign government.

I cannot say for sure, but I do not think many of you are truly there or at that level of consistency.

Personally, I think 75% of the attraction of the conspiracy theories is that it makes you the smartest person in the room because you know the "real" story unlike the sheeple, serfs, clueless.

I do believe in conspiracies of interests and power. I even believe that governments, particularly leftist like each other more than their own people, but I do not believe in this conspiracy.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:53 | 4813276 Robot Traders Mom
Robot Traders Mom's picture

How many ranking US or Israeli officials have been forced to resign as result of his leaks? ZERO. 

 

I knew the government was spying on us 24/7. I didn't need Edward Snowden to tell me something anyone with an IQ over 40 already knew. Controlled opposition is correct.

 

Mark my words, he'll return to the US shortly once Putin starts sniffing out this was just an Op to give Russia (and thus, China) a hard drive full of misleading bullshit. 

 

Wake up, people. 

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 20:07 | 4813418 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Yes, and what happened to all the other highly classified info he was supposed to release? Never happened...

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 20:40 | 4813467 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I gotta admit I am disappointed in what has been released. I am interested in seeing this list of people that they claim have been spied on.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 21:38 | 4813566 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

Don't worry, when the list is released, there will be plenty of folks claiming that the list is bullshit, it's fake or it's doctored or some kind of inside psyops job to throw people off. 

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 22:01 | 4813616 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

That's a good point. 

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 14:23 | 4814683 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I will theorize that there are two reasons no one resigns. First, what he has revealed is immoral but not specifically illegal, even tapping the German Chancellor's phone.

Second, to make someone resign is to admit guilt...even if they are guilty. Remember, that in other scandals like Benghazi no one resigns or gets fired. They get reassigned at worst.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 21:24 | 4813543 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

'Controlled opposition' 

 

that is fucking rich saying that around here..  what the hell any of you clowns that ignore bitcoin and anything else that takes a stance know about NOT being a controlled tool??

 

ahh   yes keep stackin for the rapture, i mean reset, or whatever the hell you all think is going to make you smile before you die

 

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 15:30 | 4812824 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

Gary North wrote on May 17th, How  Snowden’s revelations have strengthened the NSA and that now the NSA has carte blanche  Lew Rockwell com

 

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