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Edward Snowden's Unaired Remarks About September 11

Tyler Durden's picture




 

There was much said in last week's primetime interview between Edward Snowden and NBC's Brian Williams. But perhaps more interesting than what was said in the one hour time-slot, was what was contained in the three extra hours of conversations that were not broadcast, such as Snowden's questioning of the American intelligence community’s inability to stop the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. One such segment, as transcribed by RT, involves the former NSA contractor's response to a question from Williams on how to prevent further attacks from Al Qaeda and other "non-traditional enemies" in which Snowden suggested that United States had the proper intelligence ahead of 9/11 but failed to act.

“You know, and this is a key question that the 9/11 Commission considered. And what they found, in the post-mortem, when they looked at all of the classified intelligence from all of the different intelligence agencies, they found that we had all of the information we needed as an intelligence community, as a classified sector, as the national defense of the United States to detect this plot,” Snowden said. “We actually had records of the phone calls from the United States and out. The CIA knew who these guys were. The problem was not that we weren’t collecting information, it wasn’t that we didn’t have enough dots, it wasn’t that we didn’t have a haystack, it was that we did not understand the haystack that we have.”

Or, as some have suggested over the years, it was not that "we" did not understand the haystack. Quite the contrary. Which is precisely why the attacks took place. But back to the accepted narrative:

“The problem with mass surveillance is that we’re piling more hay on a haystack we already don’t understand, and this is the haystack of the human lives of every American citizen in our country,” Snowden continued. “If these programs aren’t keeping us safe, and they’re making us miss connections — vital connections — on information we already have, if we’re taking resources away from traditional methods of investigation, from law enforcement operations that we know work, if we’re missing things like the Boston Marathon bombings where all of these mass surveillance systems, every domestic dragnet in the world didn’t reveal guys that the Russian intelligence service told us about by name, is that really the best way to protect our country? Or are we — are we trying to throw money at a magic solution that’s actually not just costing us our safety, but our rights and our way of life?

This goes to the fundamental argument that made Snowden blow the whistle in the first place: by overreaching to a level not fathomed even by the author of "1984", and by scrambling to collect every piece of electronic communication and data exchange, or said otherwise, shotgunning and focusing on the bulk instead of isolating actionable data, what is the tradeoff?

We do know that handing all private data to the NSA on a silve platter has certainly resulted in an abuse of personal privacy by those tasked with protecting Americans as we detailed in the past in "NSA Agents Used Company Resources To Spy On Former Spouses." Who knows how else this epic trove of private data is being abused by the government for its own ulterior motives, while letting, as Snowden suggested, critical information about the protection of US citizens - the very premise behind the NSA's existence - slip through its fingers.

Indeed, the director of the NSA during Snowden’s stint there, Gen. Keith Alexander, reportedly endorsed a method of intelligence gathering in which the agency would collect quite literally all the digital information it was capable of.  “Rather than look for a single needle in the haystack, his approach was, ‘Let’s collect the whole haystack,’” one former senior US intelligence official recently told the Washington Post. “Collect it all, tag it, store it. . . .And whatever it is you want, you go searching for it.”

 

In recent weeks, a leaked NSA document has affirmed that under the helm of Alexander, the agency was told it should do as much as possible with the information it gathers: "sniff it all, know it all, collect it all, process it all and exploit it all,” according to the slide.  “They're making themselves dysfunctional by collecting all of this data,” Bill Binney, a former NSA employee-turned-whistleblower himself, told the Daily Caller last year. Like Snowden, Binney has also argued that the NSA’s “collect it all” condition with regards to intelligence gathering is deeply flawed.

 

“They've got so much collection capability but they can't do everything. They're probably getting something on the order of 80 percent of what goes up on the network. So they're going into the telecoms who have recorded all of the material that has gone across the network. And the telecoms keep a record of it for I think about a year. They're asking the telecoms for all the data so they can fill in the gaps. So between the two sources of what they've collected, they get the whole picture,” Binney said.

 

Although NBC neglected to play Mr. Snowden’s remarks to Williams in which he questioned the efficiency of modern intelligence gathering under the guise of being a counterterrorism tool, it did air on television other remarks from the former contractor concerning the terrorist attacks.

Stepping back, this really is a debate about government efficiency, incentives and motives. The biggest problem with the NSA, or rather its modus operandi, according to Snowden is not that it does not have the architecture to use the data already in its possession to isolate and prevent incidents of terrorism: it did, and arguably it had enough facts in its (and the CIA's) possession to prevent the September 11 attack, and it certainly was equipped with enough surveillance to prevent the Boston Marathon bombing, yet it didn't. In the meantime, the information grab is expanding until Big Brother, under the guise of (failed) protection now knows everything about its citizens. Simply said: this is merely government bloat in its most purest - spending ever greater amounts of money to become increasingly more inefficient, in the process destroying the concept of individual privacy.

Or as Snowden himself said it in a fragment that was aired,

"It’s really disingenuous for the government to invoke and scandalize our memories to sort of exploit the national trauma that we all suffered together and worked so hard to come through to justify programs that have never been shown to keep us safe, but cost us liberties and freedoms that we don’t need to give up and our Constitution says we don’t need to give up."

Sadly, until the people themselves wake up to this conclusion which prompted one person to speak up against a broken system, all of his efforts will have been largely in vain.

 

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Sat, 05/31/2014 - 15:34 | 4812838 MedicalQuack
MedicalQuack's picture

The surveillance business is getting old.  Be aware when you call your health insurance call centers as they use voice analytics and so when you hear "this call may be recorded for quality purposes" its really millions of algorithms coming out to analyze and make a file of your current state of mind on that phone call..yeah it sucks..

http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2014/05/this-call-may-be-recorded-for-qua...

Watch out for this one now with a free WiFi offering..we now have a Facebook router from d-link.  It is targeted for small businesses to use to offer free WiFi to clients and the catch is you need to use a Facebook log on to reveal your location and surfing habits before you get the free Wi-fi.  I told my MD readers I would not recommend this router to give patients free WiFi access, for obvious reasons:)

http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2014/05/a-router-that-uses-facebook-to.html

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 15:41 | 4812850 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

We knew all these things for years before ES came on the scene.

I'm convinced that ES is a PTB controlled resistance/distraction/diversion.

Best to ignore him.  Nothing he says from this point on is of much importance.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:00 | 4812877 q99x2
q99x2's picture

The NSA is aware that a formula can be used to determine at which point data will appear to be static. In other words anyone that wants to send information simply has to send the information below the threshold at which random data begins to appear meaningful. Below that point there exists no way to look into the face of God because God's face will begin appearing everywhere..

The NSA knows they are able to extort money from bankers and politicians by the surveillance apparatus. That is the main reason they have implemented this kind of technology. The other reason is that it will solve non serious threats and a few of those will help in obtaining more funding.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:02 | 4812883 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

type into your favorite search engine, the phrase, why the story of Snowden doesn't add up. very interesting

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:06 | 4812892 Catullus
Catullus's picture

A lock on cockpit doors would have helped. Just saying. It never needed a surveillance state to prevent the next 9/11

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:09 | 4812897 Savyindallas
Savyindallas's picture

YEAH  -LOCKS ON COCKPIT DOORS SURE COULD HAVE PREVENTED WTC 7 FROM JUST FALLING DOWN

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:48 | 4813001 WAMO556
WAMO556's picture

WTC-7 just didn't fall down, it was turned to dust, (aka - dustification). There is NO way that thermite, thermate, bombs or "inside job" did it.

The BIG PLUME of dust coming from WTC1 and 2 as they were falling WAS the building itself including the steel beams. How does a steal beam turn to dust?

Where did the tower's go?

How does a pool of molten steal appear below WTC-7???

What if the PLANES themselves were carrying a device that could "direct energy"?

What was MA370 carrying?

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 17:47 | 4813157 Aussiekiwi
Aussiekiwi's picture

 

Must have been Aliens, the ones from outer space, not the Mexicans.

I'm sure I saw something small and green leaving the vicinity with an anal probe in its hand.

Mon, 06/02/2014 - 04:48 | 4816161 Grumbleduke
Grumbleduke's picture

Yo Fucknuts, it's probing time!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnQV8E8Ja5E

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:16 | 4812912 fishwharf
fishwharf's picture

I've suspected for some time that Snowden was a "limited modified hangout" in the same way MK ULTRA disclosures were fed to the MSM to cover deeper, darker secrets.  Now I'm sure.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:17 | 4812915 zeroDirkHedge
zeroDirkHedge's picture

I am beginning more and more to believe he is a distraction.

the true backdoors are hidden in hardware. ( chip level )

911 was military industrial complex.

he is part of the system, or he is stupid.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:23 | 4812931 Smiley
Smiley's picture

I'm still on the fence when it comes to Edward.  He is being portrayed as a modern day Robin Hood.  If he really has caused as much damage as it is claimed and he will eventually release all the data anyway then I see no reason why the US government would let him continue to live.  I feel he is being left alive for a reason; they want us focusing on him and not something else.  Something isn't passing the sniff test here; I can't get the phrase "bait and switch" out of my mind.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:29 | 4812950 zeroDirkHedge
zeroDirkHedge's picture

the reason is the backdoors are hiden in hardware. hidden protocols on chip level. thats how I would do it. only way to find out is build your own a/d convertors and start analyzing all signals on ethernet/adsl levels etc....

the other easy way is picking up your wifi from space. should be easy. sounds stupidly expensive, but if you can print money for free it isn't.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:56 | 4813278 Smiley
Smiley's picture

That isn't really a secret.  It was disclosed in the 1'st Gulf War that the US routinely remotely deactivated much of Saddam's anti air infrastructure by provoking system shutdowns via shutdown firmware on the IC chips on the PCB's inside the AA control systems.  We were doing that in the 90's, I can only imagine how much more sophisticated the embedded firmware is these days.  If you want to go to war with the US you had better be careful were you source your gear from, down to the tiniest discreet component, and make sure you invest heavily in RF shielding within all levels of your battlefield infrastructure.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:30 | 4812953 vyeung
vyeung's picture

American's in general are just fixated on their NFL, NBA, reality TV (but ignore their own reality) and are totally ignorant of world developments (except for the 10% that are on the ball, that includes you good lady and gentlemen on ZH). As as nation, I really do hope that an awakening can be had so that you can drive your evil government out of DC as well as the Fed and its banksters.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:58 | 4813026 CrazyCatLady
CrazyCatLady's picture

Well we would like that too.  Unfortunately, squid tentacles have these little suction cup thingys on them that are apparently hard to dislodge.  But we are working on it, never fear.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:41 | 4812983 dojufitz
dojufitz's picture

Didn't Armstrong who was in prison one year before 9/11 tell us how some terrorists had drawn the twin towers and 2 planes flying into them on the wall of their cell....?

 

 

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:41 | 4812984 Ides of Marc
Ides of Marc's picture

Not just building 7 but ALLLLL of 911 Was an inside job. Any baboon with down syndrome can figure that out.

Building 7 is a good lead in -- because it's SOOOOO much more obvious -- BUT ALLLL of 911 was done by the plutocracy that run our government -- ALL to jusfify EXACTLY everything the NSA/CIA/ et al has done ever since.

www.SNOWDENGREENWALD2016.net

 

 

 

 

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:50 | 4813004 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

lawl yer link.

just a wee bit o' dissonance there sport.

unless you're going for sarc - in which case, oh well done!

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:44 | 4812986 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

Like so many others...

Snowed'Em FAILs !!!

The 9-11 Litmus Test

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21pPpYw_axQ

There is one thing that defines everyone over the course of these early years of this new century.

That thing is the 9/11 attack.

Everyone in government and every field of endeavor the world over is defined by their position on this event. It is not necessary to know the truth. It is only necessary to know the extent of the lies in order to define any leader in any position anywhere in the world. By what they have said and by what they have not said, one can accurately judge who is an enemy of the people's of the world. One can accurately determine who is a tool of the psychopaths or one of them.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:44 | 4812991 malek
malek's picture

Thanks Tyler, your comments show the balance of mind I cherish on ZH.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:47 | 4812998 Duc888
Duc888's picture

 

 

Snowden fails to state the obvious.

 

NSA as well as the whole of MIC is merely a jobs program funded by Fedgov with unlimited debt.

 

Stopping attacks has as much to do with anything as the lowly worker cleaning tables at Mcshitt's burger joint.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:53 | 4813006 Duc888
Duc888's picture

 

 

Smiley: He is being portrayed as a modern day Robin Hood.  If he really has caused as much damage as it is claimed and he will eventually release all the data anyway.........

 

Newsflash, he HAS released "all the data"....to Greenwald....who has been bought and paid for.  EVERY SINGLE THING that Snowden has released so far has been 100% publkic knowlwdge for at least 20 years.

 

It's just that you weren't looking....

 

 

 

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:18 | 4813008 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

What's really funny about this BS article is how it seems the MSM has come to the realization that no one trusts them anymore (or even listens to them for 'news'), so they have to concoct this ridiculous scene where we are supposed to get interested in the stuff 'THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW!!!', as if that MSM blowhard Brian Williams would ever interview someone TPTB didn't want you to hear and think about...

So in this setup, we are supposed to believe that the weak-ass statements from Snowden on 911, which all say EXACTLY what TPTB want us to believe (that it wasn't an inside job, etc.), are 'things TPTB don't want us to know'???  Can't have people telling you 911 wasn't an inside job on TV, right?

LOL LOL LOL.  The trolls came out in force to wrong-vote and comment in mass (on the 1st page of comments), but the psyop ain't workin', as far as I can tell!

TPTB need to put that silly snowjob out to pasture: shit ain't workin'!

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:57 | 4813021 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

Snowden would have been killed, neutralized or nailgunned if he was a thread to.

Shadow QE. Nothing more, nothing less.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 16:59 | 4813027 yellowsub
yellowsub's picture

Wait a minute, this was a inside job of course they had knowledge!

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 17:04 | 4813039 it aint easy
it aint easy's picture

You either believe our limited-hangout guy that we pretend to be mad at, or you're with the terrists!

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 17:08 | 4813054 monad
monad's picture

Snowball gets Carney's job.

Carney gets an endowment that he calls a job. If he lives.

Fuck Soviet

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 17:22 | 4813098 mastersnark
mastersnark's picture

Americans could not care less they are monitored chattel. We are repeating Russia's course in 1917 or Germany's in 1933 and the fact is nothing will stop this march to totalitarian rule.

 

So bug out, dig in, and party down. 

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 20:08 | 4813420 arby63
arby63's picture

True, but I say fuck 'em. The cookie is crumbling no matter what. Frankly, we out-gun the fuckers. 

The U.S.military won't be participating in the next party 

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 17:29 | 4813122 SMC
SMC's picture

Collect everything... wow that "C" in the 2nd grade is some serious leverage....(sarc)

Collecting everything certainly makes it easy for an opponent to poison the data warehouses. Perhaps that is how the ex-Warsaw Pact professionals appear to be tormenting Obummer and company on a weekly basis.

Regardless, the buffoonery of the past few decades indicate that if searching and analysis does not reach the conclusions that the political minions need to justify the desires of their crony capitalist masters, then the standard play is to make some "intel" up to reach the "correct" conclusions and get promoted.

Predictable and exploitable.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 17:31 | 4813129 robnume
robnume's picture

I know exactly what they're doing with this information, or what they hope to be able to do; blackmail. That is how TPTB keep CONgress under control. TPTB has dirt on every selected official inside the beltway and they use it to their advantage by blackmailing CONgressional members and staff. TPTB also have plenty of spies planted inside the government as well. We should be imprisoning everybody inside DC and Wall St., but no one has thje cojones to do anything about this, except to argue amongst themselves. Divide and conquer is the strategy of TPTB. And guess what? It's working!!

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 17:44 | 4813147 tony wilson
tony wilson's picture

what does this cunt say about the jfk magic bullet fbi fact not theory?

2 fucking vague

ass ange and snow blow.

what next george clooney playing snow job,morgan freemun the pres dunt obarmy and danny devito as putin for fuck sake

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 17:43 | 4813149 MrBoompi
MrBoompi's picture

So what does Snowden or NSA have to say about how WTC7 was brought down? If it was by controlled demolition, which appears to be the case, this points to an operation that was outside the scope of intelligence collection.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:36 | 4813241 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

I believe that Snowden knows that 9-11 was an inside job and like Tyler he is smart enough not to say so.  Afterall, it is not in Tyler's or Snowden's' best interest to divulge their true feelings at this time. 

Tuco, on the other hand, knows a conspiracy when he sees one.  There is "Li happ" and "Mi happ", that is "let it happen" and "make it happen" and I have zero doubt both apply to our beloved government regarding 9-11.

Good article Tyler!

Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:17 | 4813211 g'kar
g'kar's picture

I'll stick with my original thought from last year.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-13/snowden-patriot-or-traitor-amer...

 

Snowden was sent out (in the middle of many Obama scandals of early last year) to spread fear and intimidation. They keep the fear of nuclear war over our heads. There will be no global nuclear war. Not good for business. The major powers of EUR, USA, Russia, China etc. need to root out as many of the underground communications networks as possible to help complete the transition to the new global government and currency. Snowden of course ended up in the hands of our "enemy" Putin to insure believablility.

To sum it up Snowden's job was to:

1) Spread fear and intimidation

2) Root out as many underground communications networks as possible as a trusted hero

 

So sayeth the King of the Tin-Foil-Hat-Clan-Of-One

 

 

 

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 23:59 | 4813773 Flagit
Flagit's picture

 

The major powers of EUR, USA, Russia, China etc. need to root out as many of the underground communications networks as possible to help complete the transition to the new global government and currency.

 

Ive had this bad feeling as Friday the 13th approaches.

Did anyone happen to see the plot for the new Captian America movie?

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:31 | 4813231 Monty Burns
Monty Burns's picture

If he doesn't come right out and say that the whole of the 911 tapestry as woven by the government is a travesty, then this is all just meaningless noise and bluster

 

Exactly. +1000.  If Snowden is implying that he accepts the basic official premise (that terrorists seized the planes and flew them into the builidngs) then he loses all credibility in my eyes.  There's such a mountain of evidence to counteract the official version that Snowden must be part of a psy-op.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 19:20 | 4813333 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

Those are very key points, especially considering how the NSA's budget and 'allowable' population spying are all due in reaction to 911, as a "new Pearl Harbor".

When Snowden lies in support of 911, his lying direcly helps the NSA keep its budget and excuse for unconstitutional spying and monitoring of YOUR PRIVATE LIFE!

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:55 | 4813243 29.5 hours
29.5 hours's picture

 

 

 

It is startling to see from the discussion here just how easily some conspiracy nuts contort logic to the point they end up comfortably on the same side as the government and MSM in their hatred of Snowden.

If any of you see yourself in my comment, consider yourself called out for stomach crawling weaklings.

 

 

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 19:43 | 4813376 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

It must suck to have no arguments or answers to people's arguments, but yet to still want to believe something obviously false, just because you have a vested interest in believing it...  At that point, being confronted by a truther is very unsettling, I imagine.

In your fantasies you see us crawling, when in fact it's the reverse, but more importantly, you see us as an enemy when in fact we are here to save you as well from this satanic machine.

I don't hate Snowden - I pity him for being their puppet and hope he will free himself one day.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 19:59 | 4813403 29.5 hours
29.5 hours's picture

 

 

 

Q.E.D.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:48 | 4813264 ronron
ronron's picture

perfect. now we can move on from Snoman.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:50 | 4813268 ronron
ronron's picture

the russians are coming. everyone under the bed.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 18:59 | 4813290 SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

Our DOJ and NSA are "top down" organizations to protect the political establishment (mostly *****) nothing else.

Obama actually reformed those agencies to make them more top down than ever before.

Holder is aware of and can kill any investigation at any time with nobody the wiser, just a memo from guy X, there's literally no investigators with independent investigative authority, they're like accountants, they don't look for fraud unless told to and they're all on a very short leash.

If they find indications of terrorist, enemy , or cartel ties they can't persue them, "that's already being investigated" or "another agency is handling it" are some of the reasons given.

In truth our govt is totally compromised.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 20:59 | 4813498 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

"to protect the political establishment?"...No, to control the political establishment, IMO.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 19:06 | 4813302 vjmali
vjmali's picture

2001: Al Qiada is trying to attack US. well if they do, we get to finish what was left undone in 1990. So if we are dumb on the intelligence we will get to have a big war don't we?

 

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 19:31 | 4813351 willie3204
willie3204's picture

I watched the NBC interview on the NBC Nightly News with Brian.  This whole clip was aired.  This article is bunk... I watched Snowden say the words which are written up as "controlled" in this article.  And I watched them on NBC ...

 

Nice try though

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 19:33 | 4813357 highwaytoserfdom
highwaytoserfdom's picture

ellsburg,chomsky and goodwin..  Hey does this mean after supplying real- time computers to GE for engine testing and doing the thermo on JP5 and supplying controls to ABB when Rumsfield  on BOD to North Korean reactors is      I give up  CPD http://www.openfoam.com/   structures, dynamics, physics, thermodynamics all  conspiracy psycho science....      Keynesian   hegemony, Force, Violence, DNC/RNC, Bill Marr, Richard Frome  Victoria Nuland and mainstream media are     supreme    protectors from the Axis of Evil...    I FOUND THEM!   I FOUND THEM!   I FOUND THEM!     

 

WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION   

sorry speling is bad...   weapons of mass distraction

                                      weapons of mass deceptions..

 

USA USA USA.........  TERROR TERROR TERROR

 

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 19:37 | 4813368 loregnum
loregnum's picture

It blows me away that even going on 13 years later and all the info since and time to think about it that there are still so many people who actually believe the official story from that day. Logic be damned, physics be damned, evidence be damned....just believe that a small group of cave dwelling Muslims with utility knives and lousy piloting ability took over 4 passenger jets at the same time and also were able to defy the laws of physics that morning and that they conveiently gave Bush and all the other war mongers the backing they needed to go do the very things they had already talked about wanting to do before said event yet needed the justification to give to the sheeple in order to do said things. Again, how convenient by those evil terrrorists looking to "destroy freedom" and "destroy America"that their act fit in perfeclty with the plans of the war mongers.

It was one thing to believe it back in the day when emotion was the driving factor yet getting emotions out of it and seeing things clearly shows that the official story is one of the biggest piles of crap ever told in human history and logic points to it being a complete inside job (that does NOT mean Bush was involved or that knew although I bet he did) and if those "terrorists" were on those planes then they were most likely just your typical regular passengers with no clue they were about to become some of modern history's biggest patsies.

I guess I can't expect much from a species where billions take a book (the bible) written by unknown people many centuries ago with many proven errors and contradictions and translated many times over time as fact and evidence that there is a personal infallible and perfect god and it wrote said book despite the fact that again, there are errors and contradictions...and if one wishes to say the problems are translation errors then how can all the "non problem" stuff be taken as perfectly translated?

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 19:47 | 4813384 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Patrick Stewart - Macbeth (Act V, Scene V)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNDWBWFrpjM (2:00)

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 19:55 | 4813396 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Snowden...

Patriot? Psyop? Double psyop? Psyop with a forward double twist?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_eZmEiyTo0

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 20:25 | 4813438 bh2
bh2's picture

I don't believe anyone can infer from this or any other statement by Snowden that 911 was an "inside job". He has never questioned legitimate motives by the intelligence community to protect Americans. He has deeply challenged their methods and scope of activities.

What he's saying (here and elsewhere) is that indescriminate accumulation of vast quantities of "data" only complicates the task for intelligence analysts trying to finger which data are relevant (because a vastly bigger haystack tends to bury the needle). Evidence is worthless which cannot be separated out as specifically actionable.

He's also saying the accumulation of this vast but useless haystack of "data" intrudes on an inherent right of Americans to privacy of their thoughts and associations. This vast data-gathering gambit trades off something of vital importance for nothing of realizable value.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 20:43 | 4813475 I am Jobe
I am Jobe's picture

Dell and Booze Hamilton should be hung high. Snowden si doing GODS work Bitchezz. 

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 20:47 | 4813480 Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

Snowden and Putin need to release the audio of all of Larry Silversteins phone calls the weeks leading up to 9/11.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 20:54 | 4813492 BeagleOne
BeagleOne's picture

This is why most commenters on this forum are delusional. Buy gold and silver at their lows. Gold $10,000.00 in a year... when???. There will be a nuclear incident before that ever happens. WW3 is on the horizon. Only a inbred family will survive.(Crowns of all of Europe & the US ). The rest of us will be "collateral damage"...

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 10:39 | 4814138 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

Global warming by nuclear war. I thought that produced a nuclear winter.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 21:17 | 4813527 qian liao
qian liao's picture

you have modern technology running massively faster than people can create laws around it.  making the assumption that the world isn't just massively interconnected and this without borders on people finding the truth - ot's a phase.  beyond a certain level of information - more data becomes meaningless.  using the jelly doughnut examole - when the NSA has a jelly doughnut they can look at your bank records.  when they have access to 500,000,000,000 jelly doughnuts that are everyone's data - it becomes meaningless.  we are well past meaningless.  that doesn't mean it shouldn't be stopped and shut down - you just have a point now where the data is so huge and compounding so quickly that there's literally no HUMAN capacity to understand it.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 21:20 | 4813535 JR
JR's picture

Justin Raimondo of Antiwar.com, who from the beginning has called Snowden an American hero for revealing the government’s ”unconstitutional spying operation against American citizens” and has defended him against the regime “smear brigade,” reviews Greenwald’s new book:

Greenwald Against the Establishment – And Glenn gets the better of them |Antiwar.com

by Justin Raimondo, May 16, 2014

Glenn Greenwald’s new book, No Place to Hide: Edward Snowden, the NSA, and the U.S. Surveillance State, is many things: an account of his relationship with Snowden, an indictment of political leaders who have used the pretext of "terrorism" to mask their unlimited power-lust, a technical analysis (complete with illustrations culled from the National Security Agency’s own secret archives) of America’s emerging police state. Most significant and enjoyable for me, however, it is a searing indictment of what "mainstream" journalists have become – servitors of a corrupt political class blinded by their own arrogance.

It opens with an account of how the biggest story of the decade fell into Greenwald’s lap – and almost fell out. Many of Greenwald’s readers will be familiar with its genesis: an anonymous email sent to him by someone calling himself "Cincinnatus" promising a big story but insisting Greenwald install cumbersome and difficult-to-learn encryption programs on his computer before communication could begin. Greenwald did not reply to the first missive, but did reply to the second: yes, he should have encryption but just hadn’t gotten around to it, and, not being a tech type, he would have to find someone to help him.

Yet he continued to put it off. Ten weeks later, as he was landing in New York from Rio de Janeiro, where he presently lives, he received an email from Laura Poitras, the documentary filmmaker, whose harassment by US authorities he had written about for Salon. Poitras’s films – My Country, My Country, filmed inside the Sunni Triangle in Iraq, and The Oath, filmed in Yemen – had angered the US government to such an extent that they continually harassed her whenever she reentered the United States. ...

They met the next day. She told him she had received emails from an anonymous insider who had access to documents proving that the US government had been "spying on its own citizens and the rest of the world." ...

This part of the book reads so smoothly and effortlessly that it has all the hallmarks of a Graham Greene spy thriller – action-packed, yes, but deadly serious in intent and tone. Yet the thriller aspects of the story are interspersed with the problem Greenwald would run into time and again in getting the NSA story out there: the implacable conservatism of the "mainstream" media...

Snowden was furious at these obfuscations and delays, and was insistent that Greenwald himself do the story: but first he had to come to Hong Kong, where the world’s soon-to-be-most-famous-leaker was holed up. Greenwald, who still didn’t know the leaker’s name, was somewhat reluctant. He wanted more motivation: a sampling of the documents. After installing encryption programs on his computer, Snowden sent him the files which contained, among other things, the details of the PRISM program. Greenwald needed no further convincing.

As Poitras and Greenwald approached JFK airport, Laura pulled a thumb drive out of her backpack and said: "Guess what this is?"

"What?"

"The documents," she replied. "All of them."

READ MORE:

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/05/15/greenwald-against-the-establishment/

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 02:27 | 4813858 Dublinmick
Dublinmick's picture

LMFAO

 

Rense, Antiwar, Paul Craig and Lendman are going to keep us abreast of the situation. ........................................

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 21:22 | 4813538 Tegrat
Tegrat's picture

Does anyone know any .gov employee? I used to work for them. I have a hard time believing that the government has a hard on to find out what "everyone" is doing. Here's the reality gap I cannot buy into all this with:

 

1) Every .gov employee I worked with made their full time job appearing to work while counting the minutes till their TOD (Tour of Duty) ended each day.

 

2) The amount of useless info is simply too copious to process. A friend of mine was talking about getting his 2-way backup to the cell network. He said he spent 45 minutes listening to some guy planning on, then talking the actual walkthru about making a pot of coffee and drinking it.

 

So the problem lies here. What .gov employee in (1) willing to listen to hours of (2) to wait for the information they need. Now there's algo's and such to look for key words, but honestly it would take a population of .gov employees (Americans with families) with all with a hard on hate for his fellow American and a desire to work for "the Man" for hours of listening to inane drivel of your avg citizen.

 

 

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 01:13 | 4813827 Flagit
Flagit's picture

But they don't sit and listen. Its analyzed by an algorithm for keywords, and then the relevant conversations flagged for human(pardon the pun)inspection. I cannot find the link to the article that details a fusion centers transcript of a soccer moms conversation about the upcoming game. It contained phrases like "This team is the bomb. Those kids are gonna get murdered."

Anyone remember reading that by chance?

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 02:43 | 4813860 Dublinmick
Dublinmick's picture

None of them know anything unless tipped by the man behind the curtain. It is all compartmentalized on a need to know basis. Most think the bombs bursting in air is all a fight for freedom and the constitution. Remember is now legal for police departments to turn away prospective employees because their I. Q. is simply too high.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 21:30 | 4813555 telefunken
telefunken's picture

The crime of 9/11 is just going to get buried with more crimes-already has. Also,just because a guy works for the nsa/leaks documents doesn't mean he's really looked into it(9/11) outside of the narrative.

  If you really want to convince someone just mention the 25 to 50 drills that just happened to be running on 9/11,some of which intersected with the ATC -"is this real world or exercise?!"

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 21:42 | 4813562 Runs-With_Toast
Runs-With_Toast's picture

yeah well snowdens still locked in the 'we could have prevented it pardigm,.....not the one he could come to one day the 'we and the fukin zionists did it and blamed our dumb arse patsie al CIAda sand dwellers so we could do what we liked in the name of 'the terror war' drain the frekin bank and shaft the constitution etc'.

Thats it, snowdens a product of a dumb intel service within which is the real CIA, the privately run monster. Still he did good.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 21:43 | 4813580 telefunken
telefunken's picture

He also didn't say anything about the fed. reserve being illegal,the fact that Bush had call boys visit him,Obama was just about a call boy-global warming was created in a club of rome 1991 white paper,etc.ec.

 It is funny though-"ed you can say the gov. is spying on everyone but please go along with the 9/11 story-we put a lot of research,time and $ into it.."

  Maybe ed knows you can fuk with the u.s.but Israel will just kill a bitch if he gets out of line...

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 22:05 | 4813622 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

"...prevent further attacks from Al Qaeda..."

this farticle is a fraud and so is snowden who happens to be an elaborate intelligence hoax to continue the cover-up of 9/11 as an act of terrorism by the bush crime syndicate, rockefeller nazis, and other malefactor traitors against the united states, and by the terrorist state of israel.

al qaeda is the cia's personal army for mass destruction and terrorism, a group the usa supports in syria in order to topple the syrian government as part of its project for a new american century.

the incompetence argument is being trotted out again to justify more subjugations and enslavements of americans so that the elitist establishment can make minions of us all.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 22:16 | 4813639 socalbeach
socalbeach's picture

< he's legit and official 9-11 story is bogus

< he's a psy-op and official 9-11 story is bogus

Don't vote if you believe the official story.

(kind of late for a poll I know)

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 22:25 | 4813653 telefunken
telefunken's picture

< he's bogus

<9/11 was a legit psy-op

Don't vote period

Fixed it....

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 22:26 | 4813659 sethstorm
sethstorm's picture

Which if this PR-rendered information was true, would mean that the NSA needs more capacity, more secrecy, and more ability to get rid of Snowden-types.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 00:10 | 4813677 deflator
deflator's picture

 Snowden really has not enough experience to decipher the haystack although he knew enough to slip through the cracks. There are little old ladies that have 6 guys guarding their every move. Who ever was in charge of(if anyone) guarding Snowden lost everything. There are a lot of little old ladies that are dying to tell their story. For every little old lady that knows "things" there are 6 agents that their sole job is to make sure they don't.

 

 Our government doesn't kill intellectuals, it enslaves them in old dusty computer rooms then gives credit for their work to people like Peter Thiel, Elon Musk or someone that has the correct gender, race, sexual orientation or whatever bases need to be covered.

 

 To give you an idea how a guy like Snowden gets to where he is at. He probably showed an aptitude from some testing. Eventually you end up in a maybe 4 story building filled with classroom chairs with maybe numbers or letters on the backs of the chairs and 4,000 other people. Somebody hands you a piece of paper with a simple code on it that tells you what time and what chair to sit in the next day or maybe what day that you are instructed. The next time you sit down there are less than 400 people there. Why it goes from 4,000 people to 400 on the first day is beyond me because you get free lunches and a weeks pay for continuing to participate? The next day the code is even more complex and only 20 people shw up in their assigned seats. After 2 weeks Snowden is the only one left in the entire building that can decipher shit that even the writer of the shit didn;t know!

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 01:17 | 4813833 I Write Code
I Write Code's picture

He was a contractor, he didn't have to know nuthin' about nuthin'.

Your tax dollars at work.

In the whole Snowden proceedings, if you ask me this is the biggest joke.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 22:53 | 4813693 luckystars
luckystars's picture

If Snowden were real Greenwald would have drove his car into a palm tree in Rio.

simple........he isn't.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 21:54 | 4813710 Ocean22
Ocean22's picture

 

 

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 23:26 | 4813735 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

Somewhere down The Road, there will be a "they" who marvel at how, in the latter stages of empire, there was fascination with a "Snowden" who declared corruption, but seemingly no interest or effort in focusing on a small, neatly organized group of persons charged with keeping the house in order in the first place.

I suspect "they" will consider the populace to be every bit as helpful toward the ultimate demise as were the direct perpetrators -- helpful by neglect, lack of focus, misunderstanding of govt design...

and in matters such as this, they may even dig up ZH commentary to support their thesis.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 06:54 | 4813945 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

When it comes to interesting comments on how society is changing. In mid July of 2008 an article by James Grant appeared in the Wall Street Journal titled "Why No Outrage?". In the article Grant writes about how the turmoil and problems in the financial sector would in the past created a huge outpouring of anger from the public. Now it seems that we are numb and powerless to respond, words like stupid and lazy come to mind. Silent and safe within the the huddled mass it is more comfortable to move with the crowd. More on this subject in the article below.

http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2013/01/why-no-outrage.html

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 23:30 | 4813742 Inbetween is pain
Inbetween is pain's picture

They should change the name of ZH to 9-11 CONSPIRACY.  Does every fucking reader here believe 9-11 was an inside job?  While I hate Bush and Cheney with a passion those morons couldn't have pulled it off and kept it secret anymore than they can walk and chew gum at the same time.  This website is populated with a whole lot of delusional people.  Now that's scary...

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 23:49 | 4813763 Vooter
Vooter's picture

I think 9/11 was funny, if that helps...

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 01:10 | 4813825 Runs-With_Toast
Runs-With_Toast's picture

Bush and Cheney dumb fuk frontmen..the operatives who did 9/11 are US / Zionists

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 01:21 | 4813835 cpzimmon
cpzimmon's picture

Yep, lots of dreams without common sense and behind the scenes hatred for their own mothers.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 08:44 | 4814013 Windemup
Windemup's picture

Inbetween: news flash, 9-11 is not secret. many, many have revealed what went down in text and video. That is not conspiracy, it's reality.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 11:11 | 4814198 Inbetween is pain
Inbetween is pain's picture

Bullshit.  If 9-11 was an Inside job, there had to have been hundreds or more involved. (and hundreds more who know about it directly, if not thousands).  By now many of them would be feeling remorse.  I haven't heard of any stories of the insiders coming out about their involvement or with proof; I haven't heard of any of their family members saying the same; I haven't heard of any family members saying their loved ones were killed because of their involvement.  I don't believe insiders could keep an evil secret that big for that long.  Even the fear of death wouldn't stop some brave souls from coming forward.  Where are they?  All dead?  Their deaths (along with the deaths of their families) would be too obvious. Where is one credible insider talking about his part?  Give me that and I might believe. You're delusional if you think 9-11 was an inside job.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 11:15 | 4814203 withglee
withglee's picture

I haven't heard of any stories of the insiders coming out about their involvement or with proof; I haven't heard of any of their family members saying the same; I haven't heard of any family members saying their loved ones were killed because of their involvement.

The people who wrote the NIST report hadn't "heard" any reports of other explosions. Must be a hearing problem.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 11:12 | 4814199 withglee
withglee's picture

Does every fucking reader here believe 9-11 was an inside job?

I would sure hope so. Realizing 9/11 was an inside job takes fewer brain cells than reading ... and everyone here can read.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 23:50 | 4813764 luckystars
luckystars's picture

Its obvious, more people question 911, sick of the wars, see 93% against war in Syria. So they roll out Snowden who is the guy who knows EVERYTHING and have him say 911 was done by Saudis.

He is a psyops, of course US spies, everyone does who can. I knew back in the 90s they were watching you online. You could tell by the spam you got.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 14:31 | 4814694 monad
monad's picture

Back then the marketers were cross-site reading your cookies. HTML5 cookie jar is fucking relational database tables.
Go look.
You are a XML leaf, coppertop.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 23:52 | 4813765 3rd Pig
3rd Pig's picture

Webster Tarpley had him down, right out the gate...

http://tarpley.net/audio/WCR-20140531.mp3


Ed Snowden is a LIMITED HANGOUT for the Inside Jobbers.

Sat, 05/31/2014 - 23:59 | 4813772 JailBanksters
JailBanksters's picture

But failing to act was the entire plan.

So you can say, they executed that plan flawlessly

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 02:40 | 4813865 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

If he is not one of the tribe, I really doubt he understood who the true protagonists were.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 00:54 | 4813810 Dublinmick
Dublinmick's picture

The apocalypse has nothing to do with silver or gold, it always ends this way when the Kali Yuga is winding down. The demons are given human bodies and world control.

Sometime around 23 hundred years ago we see in the Mahabharata Ydhishthira has a vision of the age to come: I see the coming of another age, where barbaric kings rule over a vicious, broken world, where puny, fearful men live tiny lives, white hair at sixteen, copulating with animals, their women perfect whores, making love with greedy mouths. The cows dry, trees stunted, no more flowers, no more purity, ambition, corruption, the age of Kali, the black time."

Prepare for the polar shift.

 

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 01:05 | 4813822 anti-republocrat
anti-republocrat's picture

Without a a proven, efficient means of finding dots that can be connected, a large haystack is useless for finding the needle that can be used to identify a real terrorist and prevent an act of terror.  However, if you already know whom you want to investigate, for example some over-zealous state Attorney General investigating powerful white collar criminals, then you already know where the needles are that can be used to discredit him and ruin his political career.  Or, if you know some group of grandmothers is organizing demonstrations for peace, or peaceful demonstrations against the government, you can easily find some needles related to Grandma, make her life miserable and get her to shut up.

The real targets of these programs are not terrorists, but dissidents.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 06:46 | 4813941 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

Many people would say that Governments spying on their citizens appears to have become a global phenomena, but is it? It sounds like many of the countries in Europe find the revelations of the America government collecting and sifting through "metadata" as somewhat distasteful.

It should be pointed out that Europe also shares many of the same problems with terrorist attacks that we in America face. It is generally thought that the countries engaged is such covert and Orwellian actions are generally paranoid states with totalitarian rulers or the non-democrat systems that exist in countries such as China, North Korea, Iran, and a host of other places. More on this subject below.

http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2013/06/governments-spying-on-their-citiz...

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 01:09 | 4813824 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

OT: I don't know where best to post this so I'm going with Tyler's perma-post, apologies....

Why is Twitter so fucked up this past week?!? Ginormous fonts especially make every tweet nearly unreadable(I follow ZH, I guess you could say, it's my home-page anyway.) It's just f*ckin' ridiculous, now it refreshes itself, rather than letting me know how many fresh twats[sic] are waiting in the queue. Totally fucked, is all I can say. Thank you for the space to rant. Down-arrows away.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 05:32 | 4813909 B2u
B2u's picture

WTF do you use shit like Twitter?  

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 01:31 | 4813842 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

I keep asking the same question regarding Snowden. Think we’re getting a Clinton Blowjob.

 

NSA Spying Never Catches Israelis?

Ed Snowden, NSA, and Fairy Tales

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 02:00 | 4813852 indianapeach
indianapeach's picture

Edward Snowden. It sounds like a made up name from a cyberpunk trade paperback. 

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 05:04 | 4813898 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Crash Override or Acid Burn? Which one goes down this time around?

/sarc

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 02:03 | 4813853 indianapeach
indianapeach's picture

You guys at ZeroHedge have up-votes and down-votes? Backs away slowly.....

http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/682405/Nah

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 02:23 | 4813856 Dublinmick
Dublinmick's picture

Fasst Eddie Snowden. I am surprised he has not moved to Holland and received a new identity by now.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 03:05 | 4813867 telefunken
telefunken's picture

Snowdens biggest revelation was the us gov. has put the entire world on "double secret probation"....

 This gov. will collapse and be left with an entire building filled with my phone calls to local pizza and chinese joints....

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 05:21 | 4813904 smacker
smacker's picture

Seemingly, Snowden's views on 9/11 are based upon reading records that exist in the CIA and other spy agency archives which he had access to.

But the truth is almost certainly not buried inside those archives. It's therefore not being suppressed by TPTB because 9/11 was carried out by persons outside of the regular power structure. Probably rogue elements and a few criminals in very high places in government and the Deep State.

The conclusion Snowden draws from his reading is that it all happened due to data-overload and poor analysis. That's wrong in my opinion.

It would be interesting to know how he explains the free-fall collapse of Building 7 and some other important events that currently remain unanswered.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 08:11 | 4813986 Took Red Pill
Took Red Pill's picture

Many people here think he was a psyop. Maybe. I don't know. We all know 9/11 was an inside job. The fact that Snowden didn't say that is interesting. It could be;
1.- Snowden is a psyop for the gov't. The point that bothers me is having the MSM talking so much about NSA spying and actually airing the interview. We know the MSM is just a tool of the gov't. Why is the MSM giving this so much air time?

2.- Snowden did not have access to the truth about 9/11. He was young at the time 9/11 happened and may just believe what he was told.

3. Supposedly Snowden still has his biggest secrets to tell. Maybe this is it. Maybe he has proof of the 9/11 cover up and didn't want to let the cat out of the bag just yet.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 09:24 | 4814049 smacker
smacker's picture

If Snowden gets round to 3. and provides irrefutable evidence of 9/11 being an inside job by the Deep State and people in v/high places or was carried out/orchestrated by Israeli/Saudi agents or whoever, that would probably prove his genuineness.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 10:10 | 4814088 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

The amount of systems knocked out in 9/11 along with the extraordinary measures the FED took to clear certain securities so no one would know who's names/companies was on them even the all the 3 letter agencies wouldn't have known since it went around the PROMIS system and an ONI investigation into the same securities was shut down after the all the investigators minus one was killed in the Pentagon strike should tell you all you need to know.........

You can't pull something like that off unless the very top of the food chain is in on it or knows who and was too scared to do anything.

Either way this country has already fallen because it was allowed to happen and no one did anything about it afterwards.

This all just lip flapping at this point.

 

 

 

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 11:03 | 4814182 withglee
withglee's picture

It's therefore not being suppressed by TPTB because 9/11 was carried out by persons outside of the regular power structure.

That's oxymoronic. How can someone or group claiming to be "the powers" be overpowered outside their own regular power structure? And once overpowered why wouldn't they go after this outside power? Why would they make up such a ridiculous conspiracy theory?

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 11:35 | 4814234 smacker
smacker's picture

Oxymoronic? No. My point was that although some figures inside the power structure were or may have been involved, it was done by rogue elements and others. Meaning there would be no records being suppressed to reveal the truth etc, because the power structure itself was not involved.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 11:24 | 4814218 samsara
samsara's picture

Ya, and tell John O'Neil's family it was just a coincidence that he started work on his new job,  on 9/11 at the WTC and was killed.

Most will ask...  "Who the heck is John O'Neil...

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 05:53 | 4813920 intric8
intric8's picture

I say ed was groomed by one of the agencies to defect. He's a psyop participant but doesnt even know it.

Its more believable with ed acting on his own conscience than being told to act.

They prepared work experiences for him in the nsa and cia that would make his sense of duty to the world grow to the point where he had enough. His desire to reveal became irrestistible and certain.

The us govt knows the world knows its being spied on. Might as well release shit on their own terms. "hey everyone, the nsa knows your crackers!" nice result! Kind of like the old days with which country had more info on ufo's.

We will know snowden is a plant, unwittingly or not, if he massively embarrasses himself somehow. Any personal gain he obtains is irrelevant. Can you blame him? Dudes been on the run, he needs a break.

The REAL goal is to absolutely destroy truth seeking, critical thinking and conspiracy theorizing against the govt. People have become too smart about it now.

A deep govt insider revealing insignificant crap and verifying 9/11 lies is a
let down. This guys purpose is to eventually destroy the spirits of people like us.

The ULTIMATE goal is to make questioning govt activity a DEMORALIZING and exhausting effort with little pay off, but with big legal consequences. We are all sheeple at that point boys.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 06:29 | 4813936 smacker
smacker's picture

One could apply your rationale to almost anybody who appears to be a free thinker and who apparently acts upon his conscience to right some wrongs and expose malfeasance by The State. You could then claim that that person is actually the subject of manipulation by TPTB and is reporting exactly what they want.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 07:32 | 4813962 intric8
intric8's picture

It shouldnt be applied wholesale. My point was snowden is more valuable acting in his own believed good faith. He may have been purposefully manipulated in a controlled environment. Govt activity around the world may be carefully staged and planned out, but we have the luxury of sitting back and assessing their motivation in a freer environment as independent and indirect participants. As far as ascertaining truth goes, media propaganda is our obstacle, but that might actually be preferable over working in the intelligence community and being fed/revealed targeted information designed to obtain a certain response, as snowden was. the govt knows it cant make us think exactly how it wants, so it settles for the next best thing - have us theorizing endlessly and incredulously, just like on this post. Im not pounding the table on this theory at all but perhaps its worthy of a little consideration.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 07:59 | 4813983 therevolutionwas
Sun, 06/01/2014 - 09:17 | 4814045 smacker
smacker's picture

Yeahbut ...Snowden is a whistleblower, so why not apply your theory to every whistleblower?

Maybe they're all manipulated by their overlords to expose exactly the loads of garbage that has been previously decided. Which may serve the useful purpose of disinforming people about what is really going on and create such confusion in the minds of the public that we simply don't believe anything anymore, whoever it comes from. That would then give TPTB a much freer hand to carry on regardless, in the knowledge that nobody will believe what is claimed to be going on. Game, set and match to TPTB.

...just saying.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 09:26 | 4814051 intric8
intric8's picture

Id actually prefer to see this theory refuted than validated smacker

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 10:58 | 4814171 withglee
withglee's picture

My point was snowden is more valuable acting in his own believed good faith. He may have been purposefully manipulated in a controlled environment.

How in the world do you manipulate anyone to believe that a 47 story building covering a whole block can fall in all dimensions in perfect sync at free fall speed by pulling one beam on the 17th floor?

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 06:24 | 4813931 irongator
irongator's picture

Sounds more and more like the Matrix everyday. Scary.

 

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 06:28 | 4813935 Return of 20-20
Return of 20-20's picture

Actually this is old news.  Beaurocrats would have rather defend their own turf than defend the country.  It will happen again.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 06:41 | 4813939 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

One of my biggest concerns about the NSA spying on Americans centered on how much was being spent, because if we are spending a lot of money on this consider it a big red flag. It recently came out thanks to information leaked by  Edward Snowden that the "black budget" last year was a massive 52 billion dollars.

This is the money used in "secret" spy operations, and it is enough to send shivers down the back of those that have read about the totalitarian society of Oceania described in George Orwell's novel Nineteen Eighty-Four. In Orwell's novel, all citizens of Oceania are monitored by cameras and are fed fabricated news stories by the government. More on this subject in the article below.

http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2013/09/are-we-creating-orwellian-society...

 

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 07:49 | 4813973 Heroic Couplet
Heroic Couplet's picture

What nonsense. Colleen Rowley, FBI, was on it. She traveled to FBI Hdqtrs in Washington, DC, to alert Robert Mueller and couldn't get in to see him to warn him about the group taking flying lessons, but not take-off and landing lessons. Colleen was on the cover of Time Magazine as Woman of the Year. Zero Hedge is tantamount to Zero Head :D

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 08:17 | 4813993 Tigg47
Tigg47's picture

9/11 was an outside-job with big help from the inside. Susan Lindauer knew it and was silenced (for a while).

Her story is way more credible than the official story. Building-7 was a pro-CD-job planned well in advance.

Fake conspiracy clips on youtube to add some post CIA-action smokescreen; not enough to fool me.

"The best place to hide a leaf is in the forrest". Sofar, it is working for them.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 08:41 | 4814011 d edwards
d edwards's picture

Investigation after the 9/11 attack disclosed an absurd "wall of seperation" between the fbi and cia-meaning they couldn't share info. This "wall" was the work of an aparachik named Jamie Gorelick-look it up.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 08:31 | 4814005 Windemup
Windemup's picture

If Snowden can't come out and tell the truth about one of the greatest travestys committed on the Amerikan people from within then he is a plant and this whole Snowden thing is a giant psyop. Shame on him.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 09:58 | 4814078 intric8
intric8's picture

What if TPTB told snowden before the interview that if he lays off the 9-11 topic that they'll cut him a good deal? My point on this thread is that we dont know shit about whats going on and that its exceedingly frustrating.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 09:22 | 4814032 muleskinner
muleskinner's picture

911 was a conspiracy, of who the conspirators are, one day they will be discovered of who they were or are were now, no theory about it.  Some craven shitheads acted and the dastardly deed was done.

Snowden and the rest of us should care less and just shine it on.  Can't do a thing about it no matter what, it is history and the only people who have anything to worry about are those who are responsible.  They have to live with their conscience until the day they die and the information of who they are and were and what they did will never go away, doesn't matter if no one on this planet ever knows whom the evil, wicked bastards were, there still is a day of reckoning for all of them one day, it is inescapable.

The ineluctable conclusion is they all can go straight to hell, for their own good, of course.

If I were on the lam in Russia,  I would want to order take out pizza or apply for a green card to Italy to eat pizza there.

Must be a form of hell for Snowden now.  Can't go back, have to stay in Moscow at the Hotel California.

Psyop Schmyop, they're full of shit, those conspirators and time is not on their sides.

They were caught from the beginning and there is no end to the amount of time it will take to expose it all.

The sorry bastards deserve nothing less.

 

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 09:30 | 4814054 luckystars
luckystars's picture

None of this ever felt right to me.

He shows up in Hong Kong and stays at the Mira Hotel looking very  etheral sitting in front of a mirror.

He is telling the "truth" about Prism.

Greenwald and Portius are globalist homosexuals, Americans working and living overseas, seeming to be poster kids for the elite agenda. One report has Greenwald living with 12 dogs, that magical 12. Greenwald is the keeper of truths.

Sorry, they move us from one truth teller to another, then we figure out they were just myths crreated for us by evil overlords.

I just didn't buy it because it felt wrong, and it is wrong. Edward Snowden does not exsist. That is not his name, this is a hoax to keep you in fear and shut you down, and keep you from sheep whispering.

 

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 10:22 | 4814109 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Greenwald is compromised. Fact of the matter is if those leaks never fell into his lap he wouldn't be making money writing a book on it or would have been bought out by Obama adminstration through Omar there to make it look legit. You really think after the witchhunt by Brennan they'd let any news organization operate without intimidating them or controlling them outright concerning leaked information.

The Intercept is a honeypot and propaganda tool for the WH and DOD now using him for street cred.

Glenn is full of shit when he says he has a list of who the NSA was spying on is typical Obama propaganda FUD.

There is almost no way Snowden had that level of detail as a contractor. It is one thing to have clearances and access to systems and networks with general stuff like powerpoints of programs and capabilities contractors pitch to agencies to sell services and equipment it is another to have detailed operational infornation pertinent to specific operations. You need to be read into the group and program also that is something a contractor in the main would not be done unless they were working specifically on a specific operation and even then you won't get the contextual detail since most is need to know anyways.

Snowden my sense is he had genuine good intentions but got in over his head and like everything else allowed himself to be compromised to stay alive. He is too well scripted and articulate for a 30 something year old 'computer geek'. Guys that are like that tend be very bright but lack in the communication department.

 

 

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 09:37 | 4814062 deerhunter
deerhunter's picture

you do not allow your wildest nightmares to control your everyday life.  You do not allow your kids to name the steers and rabbits you are raising for slaughter because when the deed is done they will see them as pets and not a meat source.  We are the meat source.  We are not now and it has been a long time since this was a country of rugged individualism.  I have hunted in Africa and have seen bushman trackers follow a set of hoof prints like fingerprints through a maze of other tracks with no blood trail or bloody hairs from the shot.  I marvelled.  I marvel at the sunrise.  I marvel when my 22 month old grandson runs to me smiling when he sees me.  I marvel  that the only woman on earth that would put up with me and said yes when I asked her to marry me all those years ago.  All of life is what you focus on.  9/11 may well have made some folks a shit load of money.  It may well have furthered some ego maniacs desire to make vast wealth via the MIC.  None of that will buy my grandson's smile.  I get tired of hearing how evil America is.  Tired of how we slaughtered all the indians,  enslaved the blacks,  put smallpox in the blankets,  went to Iraq for oil.  The bushmen hate the Zulus in South Africa,, both black.  We all have preferences and that does not make one prejudiced.  If you prefer redheads to blondes are you prejudiced or showing a preference?  There is no perfect society but I don't see anyone getting on rafts to travel from Miami to Cuba.  I don't see anyone packing themselves into shipping containers and sailing the Pacific in inhumane conditions to sneak into N Korea or China.  400 plus military bases around the world.  Bring them all home.  Put them on the Mexican border.  Until Mexico releases the Marine who is currently being held for crossing into Mexico by accident with 3 firearms shut the border.  Stop all trucking in and out of the country right after we make 14 million illegals legal citizens. I am second generation of a legal immigrant.  You respect the law or you don't .  We have accepted complete and total domination and servitude to government and TPTB.  Call it what it is,  the truth.  Stop paying your mortgage or property taxes if you disagree.  Today I will see my grandson and today as all days I say thank God for a new day. His mercies are new every morning.  Gotta stop.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 10:19 | 4814100 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

"you do not allow your wildest nightmares to control your everyday life"

 

That's my problem! Nice rant.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 11:18 | 4814209 samsara
samsara's picture

Hit the enter key once in a while and make Paragraph breaks please,  More will read your posts.

FWIW

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 13:24 | 4814524 tony wilson
tony wilson's picture

lovely homely story deerhunter.

i assume you are a hunter in the states rather than syria otherwise your family and grand kids would be in un rape camps.

child sex and international live organ trading a speciality.

get on yer knees and pray old man for your exceptional us life style.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 09:49 | 4814073 Hannibal
Hannibal's picture

Sorry, I will believe that Al Quaeda was responsible for the 9/11 event when the government can explain exactly how Al Quaeda operatives were able to plant all the explosives that obviously brought down those buildings. We all saw the tops of the Towers "fall through" their underlying 500,000 tons of concrete and steel in a matter of a few seconds--physically impossible unless all that mass below had been disintegrated into dust, which it was.

There are thousands of architects, engineers, physicists, and other educated people who must know this, but apparently the social forces generated by the initial "circle the wagons, our group is being attacked" emotional response are still reverberating too strongly to allow our conscious minds to process this information (for a famous example of how the pressure to conform to the groupthink can cause people to fail to "see," or admit to what they see, when it's right under their noses, see the Solomon Asch experiment: http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/psychology/social/asch_conformity.html). Disappointingly, this effect seems to extend even to Edward Snowden's otherwise very intelligent conscious mind.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 09:57 | 4814075 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

The absolute funniest, knee slapping FACT is that Osama thought He had planed and had carried out 9/11. What a fucking dumb ass. I'd love to know how THEY got him to think that.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 09:58 | 4814077 esum
esum's picture

9-11-01 clintoon refused to kill OBL and he and Jamie gorelick built the wall that prevented the CIA from communicating with FBI. The FBI actually had a paid informant who told them his friends (two fo the hijackers) were going to hijak planes and fly them into buildings.. HOW MUCH MORE EXPLICIT THAT THAT CAN IT GET... WHAT FUCKING DOTS??? now couple that with the Mousawi computer with 9-11 info and various agents raising a red flag about flying lessons. The 9-11 commission was a coverupjust like the ARP for Benghazi... The ussa government didn't plan or plot 9-11-01.... incompetence, inaciton and Clintoon let it happen.... 

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 10:12 | 4814089 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

How simple would it be to disguise oneself as a piece of hay?   Quite simple, I would imagine.  So, let me get this straight, to protect us they make the haystack into a mountain using mostly valueless information ... then the political system turns worse than it already is and all the information is used for political purposes (if that isn't already being done).  So, in essence, the NSA know-it-all program actually had the exact opposite effect of what the claimed purpose of all the haystacking of data and made it much worse for the citizenry especially anyone 'not with the program'.    Oh the lack of imagination,..... the lack of imagination  ... the little arms in a pile.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 10:42 | 4814143 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

The most damning thing about 9/11 is the bill redesigns themselves done by the Treasury. They were done before 2001 back in 96 under Clinton yet they depict the sequence of Twin Towers falling on all the bills in order from $5 to $100 when folded up like planes. These fuckers love to telegraphic things using symbolism if you know where to look.

Here is a good picture of them folded up in order.

http://www.ploxr.com/plox/you-will-not-believe-533

 

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 10:59 | 4814152 luckystars
luckystars's picture

Snowden is the last word as far as the public is concerned. Look no more behind the curtain, the Saudis did it.

And I am thinking that is his whole purpose. Was it Cass Sunstein who said "we have to infiltrate conspiracy groups"

They added a pole dancing girlfriend for spice and draw in young people online.

No way one man alone can steal info from the NSA, lots of checks, multiple people.

No record of him at the high school and first college, kinda like Obama's past.

Snowden on mainstream media as the real deal. Pull back curtain just a tiny bit, he says we are all wrong on 911.

They want to stop the bleeding, they have to.

 

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 11:02 | 4814178 insect0man
insect0man's picture

How is it that Snowden was too stupid to save the emails that might've covered his arse while leaking 2 million + files?

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 11:20 | 4814208 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

The whole thing has been an exercise in mixing truth with fiction to create a narative.  What did we learn about the NSA that wasn't already known or couldn't be reasoned from available knowledge? A few new names to add to the existing lexicon of spying?  There is a Wiki entry on Carnivore, an older system, it takes very little to reason forward that things have become more sophisticated and pervading.

More suspiciously though, as on this very blog, questions were being raised about Snowden's info on 9/11.  This reflects the wider number of people within society asking the same question.  So suddenly there's an answer, and again it is truth mixed with fiction, we know nothing new.  It was reported that security services were asleep on the job shortly after the incident (though not knowing and not doing are not the same thing).

These guys really lack originality.  I blame Hollywood.  The cozy relationship is producing as much banality for the spookmasters as it is for everyone else.  Please just stop with this shitshow already.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 12:00 | 4814311 Peon14
Peon14's picture

Who got fired over 9/11? Michael Hayden Who was the head of the NSA in 2001 should have been one of players to stop 9/11 or seen it coming. One one think that such incompetency would have ended his career. However later he was promoted to position of CIA Director and reappointment to the rank of general. People with half of brain have to wonder why someone so incompetent was promoted to another key intelligence position.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 12:45 | 4814427 thegreygrater
thegreygrater's picture

It's called cognitive dissonance. Too much information.

But, it is not what the phrase has come to mean. Today, it is a psychology term, meaning incongruous beliefs and attitudes held simultaneously.

But the true meaning, and its application to the NSA and its survelliance activities, regarded early computer programing e.g. Fortran and Cobol, in the 1950's. Cognitive Dissonance meant that you can only process so much information before it begins to make no sense and you begin to miss important data that would have lent itself to a correct analysis.

Anyone who has handicap horseracing -- knows what I mean. 

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 12:47 | 4814434 saycheeeese
saycheeeese's picture

BEHAVE THE WAY I TELL YOU YOU SHOULD BEHAVE OTHERWISE YOU ARE A SUSPECT !

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 12:51 | 4814446 besnook
besnook's picture

i do not trust snowden because he is linked to greenwald who is linked to omidyar(ebay) who is linked to the set up for the western coup in ukraine. they are the gatekeeepers for israel's protection.

 

snowden will never mention specific responsibility by anyone for 9/11. his credibilty would immediately be damaged because most people still believe the .gov conspiracy theory. looking at his staement and the logical assumptuions that can be drawn all but accused .gov of being complicit in 9/11. snowden said we had the necessary iintel to stop the plot but didn't. instead of reorganizing the intel agencies to close the gaps that would prevent further failure the agencies just piled more "hay" on the stack which didn't catch the boston bombers in time even though the patsie...uh...er, perps were known beforehand. so we are to believe that more intel is needed on more people to prevent this sort of failure again. between the two events the situation on the ground was a directive to the fbi to create as many "terror" plots as possible to show the public there are terrorists in our midst and .gov needs info on everyone to prevent more 9/11s. most people comply with this twist of logic., our intelligence is a failure so we need more inteligence related to the lives of everyday people in order to prevent future failure.

by pointing out the absurdity of the logic the finger must be pointed at the purveyor of this logic, .gov., as the party responsible for the "failure" of the intelligence community to stop these acts even though the agencies had the info to stop them before they acted which implies .gov was an active participant in these plots. in fact, i would suggest they knew about the boston bombers and were thrilled they had finally found suitable patsies to actually set up as perps for for a real mission instead of the likes of a bunch of homeless men in a miami warehouse who were willing to say and do anything for the guy who was buying them new boots.

 

being a former quant(economics even), the tell for me is the total insignificance of domestic terrorism in a cost/benefit analysis that would justify the 100s of billions of dollars wasted on security for a threat that really doesn't exist. of course, this statement leads back to the assertion that all of this terrorist theater is meant to be used to control the people, the enemy of a corrupt .gov.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 13:38 | 4814576 unitwar
unitwar's picture

I think Snowden is a useful idiot, like Krugman.  He really believes what he is saying and has no idea who he is really working for.  All the information he has was fed to him.  If he really was a rogue agent, he could have been taken out easily many times.  Greenwald published his story in the Guardian.  You think that story couldn't have been spiked by the editor if TPTB wanted to?  The media is totally controlled.  Snowden's story would have never come out if "they" didn't want it to.  Just like the dumbass terrorist patsy assholes who are set up to take the fall for all the false flags.  They only know their immidiate contact.  They do not know that their boss works for the Mossad or CIA.  They have no idea they are really working for them but think they are fighting a holy war!  Snowden really thinks he is an American hero and is fighting for our freedom.  He thinks he is where he is because he is so smart.  He is being manipulated, like all of us and is a useful idiot.  I have no idea what really happened on 911 but I do know it was designed to manipulate us.  It certainly wasn't planned and executed by guys living in caves in Afganistan.  I suspect it was planned and executed by elements within the United States but have no smoking gun and never will.  Just ask yourself, who benefitted the most from 911?  911 was not, in my opinion, an intellegence failure, which is what Snowden has been fed to say.  It was a grand intellegence success.  I think one of the main purposes of Snowden is to reinforce the belief that 911 was an intellegence failure and that the intellegence agencies are incompetent.  That appeals to many of the dumbasses like me who read ZH.   For some reason, everyone being incompetent is more comfortable than admitting we are manipulated by someone or something from the moment of our first breath and we really have no idea who or what it is, who we really are and where we came from.  We only know what we have been fed.  Do you really think you have been told the real history of the world?  Imagine how many 911's have happened in history.  How many do we know the truth about?  We saw 911 in real time and don't know the truth.  The history books will always say it was done by 11 Saudis orchestrated by someone living in a cave!  1000 years from now some dumbass will be commenting in whatever the equivalent of ZH is then about how terrorists crashed a plane into the great world trade center and nobody saw it coming.  It seems most of us are destined to never learn and were made to be servants.  Somehow, "they" conviced us we are free and that we need them (leaders)!  Most of us are incapable of leading ourselves.  Friggin funny if you detach yourself from the fact that you are an ignorant serf.  No wonder "they" have no respect for us.  Again, if you detach yourself from your status as an ignorant serf, would you have any respect for us?  How in the world did we let them convince us that it was necessary for them to print our money?  That we needed "them" for anything?  How did we let them convice us that printing money and charging us interest on it was necessary?  The only conclusion I can come up with is that we deserve it and in fact are livestock exactly like the elite treat us.  We allow it to happen and if we were not designed to be sheep, would recognize it and do something about it.  I have gone feral but my instincts have been dulled by thousands of years of domestication as well a US public education, big Pharma drugs and big Ag food.  I can recognize some truth but am still mostly brainwashed and controlled.  "They" don't really have to do anything to control me anymore. I keep myself in line most of the time.  I bet the same is true for most of the ZH readers?

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 16:09 | 4814953 mc225
mc225's picture

this 'sounds' about right, thought it could be madness. even if it is generally true what you're saying, it seems that 'most people' don't want to cross that 'thought rubicon'.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 17:41 | 4815163 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

scary, but probably right on the money.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 19:53 | 4815429 MassDecep
MassDecep's picture

[Jhn 8:31-32, 36 KJV] 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. ... 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 14:08 | 4814645 Silver Exterior
Silver Exterior's picture

Andybody watching the show 'person of interest'.. Riddle me this, why am I wachting a show about how evil the NSA's is on a pro-nsa medium like tv...?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_Interest_%28TV_series%29

 

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 16:26 | 4814999 flyingcaveman
flyingcaveman's picture

Maybe there are good people at the NSA that know the truth.  The CIA isn't experts at monitoring communications and the FBI needs to get warrants.  Effort to consolidate power?

Sun, 06/01/2014 - 14:40 | 4814724 Jano
Jano's picture

With Snowden I have a foggy picture:

is he CIA agent bashing NSA, or is he NSA agent bashing CIA?

My feeling is, that he is a moron used between the two, to fight each other.

That he made a great service to the world (0,01%  of people know since ever, that spy agencies are here to observe and collect data) and he told, is great, but what is his real mission?

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