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Gold Price Manipulation Was "Routine", FT Reports

Tyler Durden's picture


Two weeks ago when news broke about the first confirmed instance of gold price manipulation (because despite all the "skeptics" claims to the contrary, namely that every other asset class may be routinely manipulated but not gold, never gold, it turned out that - yes - gold too was rigged) we said that this is merely the first of many comparable (as well as vastly different) instances of gold manipulation presented to the public. Today, via the FT, we get just a hint of what is coming down the pipeline with "Trading to influence gold price fix was ‘routine." We approve of the editorial oversight to pick the word "influence" over "manipulate" - it sound so much more... clinical.

What the FT found:

When the UK’s financial regulator slapped a £26m fine on Barclays for lax controls related to the gold fix, the UK financial regulator offered more ammunition to critics of the near-century-old benchmark. But it also gave precious metal traders in the City of London plenty to think about.


While the Financial Conduct Authority says the case appears to be a one off – the work of a single trader – some market professionals have a different view. They claim the practice of nudging a tradeable benchmark in order to protect a “digital” derivatives contract – as a Barclays employee did – was routine in the industry.

Well, then, if gold price manipulation, pardon, "influence" was routine, be it to avoid digital option trips or any other reasons, then it's all good, right?

Apparently not, especially if a "customer" of a bank that was running a prop trade against the customer ended up costing said customer millions in lost profits.

As a result, customers of Barclays and other market-making banks may be looking to see if they too have cause for complaint, according to one hedge fund manager active in the gold market.

The only piece of actionable information from the above sentence is that Barclays actually has customers: we expect that to change. After all, with the exception of Goldman's muppets, there hasn't been a more clear abuse of client privileges than what relatively junior trader Daniel Plunkett did while at Barclays. However, Plunkett is just the first of many. Many, many.

“If I was at the FCA I would be looking at all banks trading digitals. This could be the tip of the iceberg – there’s a massive issue with exotic derivatives and barriers.”

That, naturally, assumes that the FCA wasnt to catch more manipulators, pardon, "influencers" of gold and other OTC derivative prices. Which is hardly the case: after all one never knows which weakest link rats out the people at the very top: the Bank of England itself, and perhaps even higher: going all the way to the BIS and those who equity interests the BIS protects.

So just what is the most manipulated product with either gold or FX as underlying?

In the City, digital options are common in the precious metals sector and, especially, in forex trading. A payout is triggered if a predetermined price – or “barrier” – is breached at expiry date. If it is not, the option holder gets nothing.


One former precious metals manager at a big investment bank says there has long been an understanding among market participants that sellers and buyers of digitals would try to protect their positions if the benchmark price and barrier were close together near expiry.

Ideally, the underlying will be relatively illiquid, with a price fixing set by a small number of individuals, individuals who can be corrupted or simply onboarded to your strategy, thus incetivizing them to keep their mouth shut and assist you in ongoing rigging attempts.

In the case of gold, this means trying to move the benchmark price, which is set during the twice daily auction “fixing” process run by four banks, including Barclays.


That is what the Barclays trader, Daniel Plunkett, did on June 28, 2012. Exactly a year earlier, the bank had sold an options contract to an unnamed customer stating that if after 12 months the gold price was above $1,558.96 a troy ounce, the client would receive $3.9m.


By placing a large sell order on the fix Mr Plunkett pushed the gold price beneath the barrier, thus avoiding the payout. After the counterparty complained, the FCA became involved. Barclays paid the client the $3.9m, and was fined. Mr Plunkett was also fined – £95,600 – and banned from working in the City.


In its ruling, the FCA criticised Barclays for its poor controls related to the gold fix and said the bank had failed to “manage conflicts of interests between itself and its customers”.


“We expect all firms to look hard at their reference rate and benchmark operations to ensure this type of behaviour isn’t being replicated,” said Tracey McDermott, the FCA’s director of enforcement and financial crime.

Still, why did gold manipulation go on for as long as it did? Because the Barclays trader was an amateur, and instead of taking the money of one of the "old boys' club" participants, ended up robbing an outsider, someone who had the temerity fo lodge a formal complaint.

The identity of the Barclays client has not been revealed. But a senior gold trader with knowledge of the transaction says it was not another investment bank or hedge fund. “This was not professionals going head to head,” he says.

Wait a minute... this smells remarkably familiar to the LIBOR rigging - after all there it was one "sophisticated" investors against another: the impact of rigging the IR market hardly ever escaped the arena of "sophisticated" influencers, pardon, traders. It is also why Libor was manipulated for a decade before the regulators finally figured it out: because while banks may have lost money to this rigger or that, they were all in it together, and better to lose money individually than to sink everyone at the same time. Alas, that is precisely what happened with Libor.

And now it is coming to gold.

“If you have Goldman Sachs on one side and JPMorgan on the other, the gloves are off. But not everybody in the market has the same level of sophistication and vindictiveness.”


The gold trader familiar with the Barclays case expresses some sympathy for Mr Plunkett, saying in the pre-financial crisis days the trader may have been censured by his bosses if he had not defended the digital option sold by the bank.

it gets worse:

“What’s changed now is the market morality,” he says. “We can’t simply say: it’s always been done this way.”

Well that's ironic: because it has always been done this way. Influenced. Or manipulated... or however you want to call it.

And while in the case of Libor the regulators could get away with it by stating only other professionals were impacted by years of wholesale market rigging because tracking the impact of daily gyrations in a rigged fix are virtually impossible for normal individuals to trace, and thus prove monetary impairment,  with the gold market they may find some significant resistance using this approach.

So what approach will they use? Why, just like in the case of HFT: there may have been manipulation, but it only impacts hedge funds and other "sophisticated" investors they will say. Because when it comes to rigged markets, mom and pop have surely never had it better.


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Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:04 | 4820719 localsavage
localsavage's picture

These fuckers need to die.....

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:16 | 4820755 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Ship them a nailgun kit without the instructions.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:19 | 4820770 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

"" Gold Price Manipulation Was "Routine", FT Reports""

NOT "WAS" ... ==> " IS "

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:21 | 4820778 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

USD reserve status requires the barometer of fiscal malfeasance (gold) be held at levels so as not to put a blemish on the USD and banker fraud.  Simple as that.

Is it manipulated?  F'n rights.... always has been.

Only a liar or a fool would say they "don't begin to understand the gold market".


Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:34 | 4820817 chapaev's ghost
chapaev's ghost's picture

The price of gold is being MANIPULATED?????




Oh, please God, MAKE IT STOP!!!!


Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:44 | 4820851 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

So how many countless bullseyes does this make Tyler(s)?

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:39 | 4821020 I MISS KUDLOW
I MISS KUDLOW's picture

dont forget guy  free market capitalism IS the best path to prosperity

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 16:17 | 4821146 Charles Nelson ...
Charles Nelson Reilly's picture

Thanks Lar, I was starting to believe Pinketty and his Karl Marx toe sucking worshippers?!?

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 18:04 | 4821335 J S Bach
J S Bach's picture

May we all live to see lamppost hangings of Central Bankers as "Routine".

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 18:14 | 4821394 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

So where is this Marc Booker fucker, the head of gold spot trading at Barclays who suddenly left a few weeks ago? Where the fuck is he and why isn't he in jail?

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 19:06 | 4821508 Zadok
Zadok's picture

Hangin w Corzine.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 21:38 | 4821857 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Now, there's an idea!

Just need two ropes.

Wed, 06/04/2014 - 01:05 | 4822290 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

You should try to be more conservative.  In order to achieve you desired goal in a less expensive manner you should use one rope and two nooses.  Cats hanging by their tails from a clothes line comes to mind.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:48 | 4820864 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Three questions to always keep in mind:


Who's telling us?

Why are they telling us?

And why are they telling us now?


Hunch:  we are at or near the bottom in this cycle and gold will soon resume its bull phase... because they are ready and/or desire for this to happen.


Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:30 | 4820977 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

They are telling us now so that we can believe "oh, they caught it, and it's ok now, no more manipulation".

Wed, 06/04/2014 - 05:56 | 4822436 what's that smell
what's that smell's picture

reminds me of the rapist who told the judge he used his influence.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 18:17 | 4821401 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

Bank of England and the Treasury told the FCA to release this little mini-puke report on Plunkett. It's called hanging out info in a modified limited way. You see, it's in the MI6 textbook, some of the Treasury and Bank chaps know the MI6 chaps from Cambridge days.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 19:20 | 4821541 tvdog
tvdog's picture

Are you sure it wasn't Eton? Still longing for the days of playing in the dorm after dark, under the sheets.

Wed, 06/04/2014 - 01:06 | 4822293 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

You clearly misunderstand.  Plunkett is just a renegade employee in Cincy.

Wed, 06/04/2014 - 01:08 | 4822295 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

They've done a much better job of getting out in front and staying on top of this gold story, so far.

Wed, 06/04/2014 - 00:22 | 4822237 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Call me a cynic, but I'm guessing that they too have realized that the sheeple have become so dumb and numb, that no 'scandal' bothers them any more, as long as they get their "green grass and peace", so to speak.

Only if the goodies stop flowing will the sheep bleat or panick in earnest.  By which time it'll be too late for them.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 17:43 | 4821322 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Seems to me that they are trying to frame the discussion as if they were manipulating the price upwards...

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 18:49 | 4821481 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

That's what Kid Dynamite and Trader Dan will tell you these days (that the banks were pushing gold higher for many years).

It's fucking laughable on its face. After MF Global, ABN Amro, Germany and now Ecuador (just yesterday), it is clear that kind of explanation is complete horseshit.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 19:22 | 4821545 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Sounds like something they would push to allow them to buy more.

Wed, 06/04/2014 - 01:10 | 4822299 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Fueling public doubts about the validity of the price of gold and the fairness of the gold market probably will help keep the price down.  Perhaps they are running out of other instruments of manipulation.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 19:15 | 4821529 tvdog
tvdog's picture

I'm shocked, I tell you! Shocked beyond belief! Who could have thought a banker could be dishonest?

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:37 | 4820823 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture held at levels so as not to put a blemish on the USD and banker fraud.


In other words the price of physical gold is being subsidized.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:57 | 4820882 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Yes, inadvertently because the paper price of gold is being smashed to prop up the dollar.  The banksters initiated a paper pricing of physical, which is why we have such a massive disconnect in the PM market between supply/demand fundamentals.  The paper market is a complete hoax.  The fact that the paper price of gold needs to routinely be kept down against the common forces of nature reveal the extent of the theft going on and how insolvent the banking sector really is.

It would appear by the cartel's actions that there are some very large problems behind the scenes, otherwise LIBOR, Forex, and PM's wouldn't need such attention.


Tue, 06/03/2014 - 16:25 | 4821165 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

its not to hard to see that if central banks are buyers of physical gold and have the ability to create unlimited amounts of new paper gold derivitves to dilute the price that this can and will continue as long as the miners can afford to put up with it. The global "Cash for gold" operation is mainly over now and has cleaned out the scrap supply from our mom and dads jewrey boxes so this is now all about miners being slaves to bankers untill the fuel to gold price needs to be adjusted. 

I think many miners are locking in future porduction in FEAR of this BS continung. Its not like the can tell the banks to fuck off and just hold out for a price rebound. 

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:20 | 4820780 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture




The LBMA and COMEX exchanges themselve are carefully set up to trade virtual, non-existent gold.

Last summer the LBMA was trading 8,500 tonnes of gold per day vs. 10 tonnes produced each day by mines.

And it was all coordinated by the BIS, the BofE, and the FED.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:44 | 4820850 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

No manipulation occurring now because we're in a down market. Just ask Trader Dan.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 17:18 | 4821278 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

I used to like Dan way back when at JSMineset.

Now he's just another useless chart watching douchebag ignoring the elephant in the room.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:11 | 4820919 Took Red Pill
Took Red Pill's picture

"Still, why did gold manipulation go on for as long as it did?" This, too is past tense. It's still going on!

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 16:01 | 4821093 sampo
sampo's picture

This system just isn't going to correct all the cumulative effect that all these different kinds of manipulations have been distracting from the reality.


See you in the next system.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 18:08 | 4821381 teslaberry
teslaberry's picture

this is the subtext to just about every scandal. even the snowden 'affair' .

NOTHING has been done since 'SNOWDEN" other than to consolidate AND INCREASE the width and depth of spying on the american public. OPENLY AND NOTORIOSLY in part and CLEVER LAWYERING AND OUTRIGHT LYING in part.

the subtext to anyone paying attention is that even when it comes to the small percentage of scandals that are being 'unmasked' the result is that the corrupt self dealing is not stopped but INCREASE, or at least stays constant.


I've still come to believe that until people are starving to death nothing can change. That day may take 20 or 30 years in the west. but the writing is on the wall and the days are numbered. ESCALATING LOOTING OF THE BARE SHELVES IS A VICIOUS POSITIVE FEEDBACK LOOP AND RESULTS IN WHAT WE ARE CURRENTLY SEEING.

i see it in my own lawfirm , in our case load, in the lack of real options for the partners. I am just a cog , but even the partners---people who live high on the hog parastically off wall street---what real choices do they have as to their client load other than to leave law altogether?

seriously is UP or SHUTDOWN. with a commercial services firm ---shutdown is just closing up.

but what does shutdown imply for NONcommercial PUBLIC firms; that is to say what happens when governments fail.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 18:31 | 4821438 Imminent Collapse
Imminent Collapse's picture

Blow up tour TV, throw away your paper, move to the country, build you a home, plant a little garden, eat a lot of peaches, try to find Jesus on your own. - John Prine

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 20:58 | 4821761 WTFMOFO
WTFMOFO's picture

Gotta find a level headed dancer first!

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 20:58 | 4821762 WTFMOFO
WTFMOFO's picture


Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:21 | 4820772 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture



Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:44 | 4820855 alexcojones
alexcojones's picture

One HUGE reason I get a daily dose of the drug known as ZH, is the dark, dartboard humor.

ZH is funnier and more daring, more sarcastic, more Political Un-correct, than the Onion.

ZH posters are often funnier than the paid writers on the Jon Stewart show.

Actually I think some of the Daily Show show writers READ the remarks here to get good ideas.

Reading Zerohedge is better than crack to a crack addict, because our teeth are less damaged.


Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:50 | 4821057 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

The Tribe will tell you what's funny, like they tell you what's worth buying.  If it can't be bought, then it isn't worth buying.  It can't be bought if it isn't on the shelf.  Now back to your regularly scheduled programming. 

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:54 | 4821069 saltedGold
saltedGold's picture

Alex, on average I enjoy the comments more than the articles.  I'm not saying that the articles are bad, I just really like the comment section here.  ZH is addictive.  During the week I refresh the main page about 50 times a day.  During the weekend, I go through withdrawls when nothing new gets posted for a day.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 17:46 | 4821329 NeedtoSecede
NeedtoSecede's picture

The truth will set you free saltedGold! 

I still miss some of the old school ZHers like Francis Sawyer, Trav and several others who were forced out, or decided to leave.  I may not have agreed with them on everything, but they would bring it with every comment, and they didn't hold back.  Made you think and challenged you to dig even deeper.

Still love Knuckles, Meat Hammer (you still around Hammer?), pods, DCRB and several others.  I must admit I have a crush on kchris.  It sends a "chill up my leg" whenever he/she speaks lovingly of his/her guillotine.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:59 | 4820890 Mesquite
Mesquite's picture

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:19 | 4820775 Da Yooper
Da Yooper's picture

I have plenty of trees bring bankers & rope

Lets have a party like they did in the old west

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 17:45 | 4821323 ZH Snob
ZH Snob's picture

they will manipulate their way to obsolescence, and for those of us who are up for this battle they are also arming us with all the PMs we continue to scoff up at bargain prices.  sunset is coming for this band of thieves.  of course, they will just adjust to the new system and try their best to game that one too, but it won't be as easy.  trust in paper products will be close to nil.  they will have to put up or shut up, just like everyone else.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 22:09 | 4821932 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

"I didn't know the gun was loaded!  Well okay, I knew the gun was loaded, but I didn't think it'd kill..."

Wed, 06/04/2014 - 01:02 | 4822288 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Change a few words and this is a conversation about the mafia.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:06 | 4820724 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Rumor has it that jelow futures are... also... fixed...

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:43 | 4820847 chapaev's ghost
chapaev's ghost's picture

Financial markets are FIXED and RIGGED???

Next you'll be telling me that politicians are corrupt lying shitags.

And then, you'll reveal that the FED is a private corporation and that bankers are screwing us!

If I don't put a stop to your malicious truth-telling, you'll reveal that 9/11 was an INSIDE JOB!!!!

Will I have to endure the discovery that I am nothing more than a chattel bondsman, held as property by the Queen of England through a corporate entity known as the UNITED STATES????



Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:07 | 4820729 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

I am sure they will instigate clawbacks of the salary and bonuses of all doing Gods work.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:07 | 4820730 883dave
883dave's picture


Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:08 | 4820733 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Rig the market, slap on the rist, carry on...

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:14 | 4820736 HUGE_Gamma
HUGE_Gamma's picture

while I agree that the end of day fix was an illegal gimmick to juice a few extra pnl bps.. it did not effect the long term trend/price of the commodity..

when the market reopens.. the fix from yesterday means nothing.. long term investors would not be affected by a dollar here or there from an accounting technicality.. the price of gold is down but these shenanigans have nothing to do with it.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:14 | 4820757 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

That's the spirit: and HFT frontrunning is not illegal either - it only robs hundredths of pennies (a few billion times each day).

Also, it only impacts institutions - mom and pop have never had "tighter spreads" - they can now daytrade away their retirement accounts for only $5.95 a trade.

Joking aside, rigging digitals at the fix is indeed just the tip of the iceberg.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:44 | 4820813 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

Welcome to ZeroHedge, Professor Krugman!  Err...I mean, HUGE_Gamma.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:45 | 4820857 SharkBit
SharkBit's picture

Yeah! Set him straight Tyler.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 16:14 | 4821132 Kilobar
Kilobar's picture


Tue, 06/03/2014 - 16:14 | 4821133 Kilobar
Kilobar's picture

Perhaps. But bear in mind that those of us who work in the physical markets (miners, consumers, jewellers, etc...) need a daily clearing price with a narrow spread. On the fix, it's a $0.20 spread. OTC with a bank is anywhere between a $1.00 and $2.00 spread, even during Comex hours. And if you think gold is being manipulated on the fix, try using the Comex close as the contract reference price.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:42 | 4820838 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

How is screwing someone at the last minute on a option contract not outright theft? 

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:02 | 4820902 HUGE_Gamma
HUGE_Gamma's picture

right but it has nothing to do with HFT or why Gold is at 1250

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:07 | 4820913 scraping_by
scraping_by's picture

If nothing else, it's anti-investment PR. Commodities markets are sold as nearly Free Markets (whatever that is) and most money is brought to the table on that assumption. Rework the assumption to a casino full of rigged wheels and marked cards, and the Free Market money stays away.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:17 | 4820932 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

How can you assume any market price is correct when you have outright theft going on?  Free markets require rule of law.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 16:20 | 4821159 Charles Nelson ...
Charles Nelson Reilly's picture

right but it has nothing to do with HFT or why Gold is at 1250

holy fuck... back up, I'm gonna throw my fist thru your computer screen

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 16:56 | 4821244 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

If I wuz in a po' hood an I scammed 3.9 mil from some schmuck and then they come to my house an' find a gun too..I be in jail fo' eva.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 19:39 | 4821567 tvdog
tvdog's picture

That's 'cause you don't think big. Rob a bank with a gun and you only get a few thousand at most. Rob a bank from the inside and retire to the Caymans.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:44 | 4820853 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

You already buried yourself with your own statements.  Remind me which long term gold investors are involved in the /gc or /ym again?  

And speaking of futures, MF Global and Knight Capital were two of the largest firms involved in gold and other futures instruments.  "Shenanigans" as you might say had some considerable influence over how futures are traded, at what price, and who gets to participate.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:49 | 4820869 BigJim
BigJim's picture

 the price of gold is down but these shenanigans have nothing to do with it.

Wrong. The spot price is set by the futures markets, and if longs keep getting hammered by institutions selling naked short (who know they'll get bailed out if their bets go bad) then it scares off anyone who looks to invest in gold as a safe-haven. So, yes, it effects the price of gold.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:09 | 4820739 goldhedge
goldhedge's picture

Waiting for the price explosion...




Are we there yet?


Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:15 | 4820760 trader1
trader1's picture
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:22 | 4820946 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

I prefer the original TS Eliot, but nice work anyways.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 16:12 | 4821128 F22
F22's picture


Tue, 06/03/2014 - 19:07 | 4821510 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

I'm being poetic. Dill-snip.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:29 | 4820806 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

"Are we there yet?"

does it matter - really...i hope ya'll r still stackin...cause i fucking am...

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:11 | 4820742 Magnum
Magnum's picture

The market knows nothing, because secret people in hidden rooms can hold down the price of a precious metal that's served as currency for generations.  The question is not how can the price of gold be suppressed year after year, but how can otherwise intelligent people believe this nonsense for so long?

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:19 | 4820773 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

"Otherwise intelligent people" is where you have gone astray.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:30 | 4820807 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

When a tool of the riggers produces the report of the rigging, that too is a rig.


It has gone on so long because of tools and enablers such as Kitco, Gartman, Jeff Christian etc, etc, etc, have provided cover and plausible deniability to the people and entities that participate and profit from the rig.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 16:51 | 4821235 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

"OMG cause like gold is what old people wear! Hello! Tungsten is so much more chique righ now duh!"

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 17:38 | 4821313 toothpicker
toothpicker's picture

Free extra large soda with that Chicken nugget box, the new Game of thrones season just started, Miley Cyrus is performing and remember to take your medicine!

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 14:29 | 4832801 cooky puss
cooky puss's picture

And here I thought everyone in here was crazy!

Real news is what it's all about! Geez, that free extra soda... fuck me!

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 17:38 | 4821314 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

Disbelief is not fatal to this nonsense.

Constructive alternatives are.

That's why there aren't any - for long.


The moral Liliputians survive by cutting everyone down to their size, either morally or physically.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:11 | 4820744 BrigstockBoy
BrigstockBoy's picture

There's no accountability in the world. No inviolable truths. Remember when there was right and wrong? 

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:31 | 4820810 Osmium
Osmium's picture

"Today I made an appearance downtown
I am an expert witness, because I say I am
And I said, 'Gentleman, and I use that word loosely
I will testify for you
I'm a gun for hire, I'm a saint, I'm a liar
Because there are no facts, there is no truth
Just a data to be manipulated
I can get any result you like
What's it worth to ya?
Because there is no wrong, there is no right
And I sleep very well at night
No shame, no solution
No remorse, no retribution
Just people selling T-shirts
Just opportunity to participate in the pathetic little circus
And winning, winning, winning'"

Don Henley - Garden Of Allah

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:45 | 4820859 BigJim
BigJim's picture

 Remember when there was right and wrong?

Was that before we firebombed millions of civilians in East Asia? Before 'we' enslaved young men to kill or be killed overseas for 'their country' in WWI? Before the'Civil' War? Before widespread chttel slavery? Before the first National Bank or the Whiskey rebellion?

Remember when there was right and wrong? It's never gone away,.. I just don't see much evidence of it in our 'public' sphere.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:32 | 4820983 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

There's always a nit-picker.

If there's a muppet tp bleed, he'll get bled. There's laws for us and 'guidelines' for them.

Ya want morality?

Go to church.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 16:28 | 4821167 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

There is little to no morality in churches. I have dealt with Satanists whom have much more morality than most of those whom attend churches.


If you want morality then you behave in a moral fashion. But I cannot even expect that from many whom post on ZH. I get more truth here than on the MSM. However it seems that with the trolls and the stawk salesmen that the truth is that which is to be quashed.


You seek moral behavior in yourself first and prioritize to exercise your principles before that of profits. But most will seek the almighty Currency first. I have no clue how well they sleep at night after violating others which violates themselves.


With that I suggest that the Bank Buildings are destroyed to prevent these snake oil fraudsters from operating. Place a small explosive between the bank building and the Gas Meter. The fire will consume the building. Burn them to the ground.


Gassing the financial skyscrapers will be the next step. Chlorine Gas is easy to generate and placed within an air conditioning intake the gasses will be distributed throughout the building. Bleach and ammonia.


They want to fraud? The wages of sin is DEATH.




Material support is support...especially in return for a paycheck. They support the fraud. They need to die.


Now that is a MORAL ACTION as it prevents them from continuing the frauds.. Jesus did not take the thief down from the cross. He allowed the forgiven thief to suffer the consequences for his theft.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 21:09 | 4821787 DirkDiggler11
DirkDiggler11's picture

Time for a cold beverage Tall Tom.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 22:31 | 4821975 PhilofOz
PhilofOz's picture

However evil these psychopaths are, you just can't get away with suggestions about how to gas them. They'll be at your doorstep to take you away next so perhaps wise to rephrase your words to avoid becoming a target for them Tall Tom.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:12 | 4820750 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Chain of manipulation....

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:14 | 4820756 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

"Was Routine",is Rigged. Edit that Bitchez.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:12 | 4820751 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

This is what it looks like when  the bernakyellen laughs

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:13 | 4820752 bbq on whitehou...
bbq on whitehouse lawn's picture

Looks like the lawyers smell blood. Fear and lothing in the city.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:33 | 4820763 SoilMyselfRotten
SoilMyselfRotten's picture

These guys are keeping gold and silver in such a tight range they squeak. Gold can't go up $2 before they get out their little hammers and chip away. What happened to 5 margin call hikes in a week for silver?? Volatility is conspicuously absent. Guess noone wants goald anymore!

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:16 | 4820766 tradebot
tradebot's picture

My question is...whats next after these guys go away?

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:19 | 4820774 seek
seek's picture

A new exchange that is also rigged. Until you can't trade naked contracts this shit will keep going on.

What we can hope for is that people who really care about the market move to exchanges that require 100% backing. If enough move to that we end up with the two markets FOFOA talked about, which is a key step towards breaking these guys.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:17 | 4820767 seek
seek's picture

"Was" ... lol. Gotta keep the fair market narrative going at all costs.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:24 | 4820768 SoilMyselfRotten
SoilMyselfRotten's picture

"a one off"......hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:23 | 4820789 youngman
youngman's picture

Let me know the names and the companies so I can go sue them...I want my money back..with damages...I have had to resort to drinking to keep from going insane because of the gold markets....they just do not make any I know do I look...from Papillon the movie

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 18:44 | 4821465 Bemused Observer
Bemused Observer's picture

Stop fretting over the fluctuations in the gold market...One SHOULD be buying it as insurance, and thinking of it as such. NOT as an investment or 'trade' that can be harvested for profits.
We carry life insurance, homeowner's insurance, insurance against loss and theft of all kinds. And we pay those premiums without getting upset that we HAVEN'T met with disaster since the last time we paid our premiums. We don't add up all the years we DID pay, and lose sleep over the "loss" because we are still alive and with all our stuff.
Don't let the current psychosis in the markets reduce it all to profit and loss day-to-day...Gold is the ONLY sane insurance policy against financial upheaval. In fact, the volatility in all markets, including gold, should emphasize the NEED for you to have it.
Just look at all of human history...the ONLY things that have successfully segued from one economy to another in crisis times are gold and silver. Every economy using currencies has had to value PM's, or be wiped out in the end.
You can tell how a society values its economy by what it uses for money. We USED to use silver and gold, now we use paper and base metal...

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:25 | 4820793 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

It 'was' routine? So certainly no more gold manipulation going on now, or maybe just not the routine kind I guess.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:29 | 4820805 NEOSERF
NEOSERF's picture

So basically if it were to stop, nobody REALLY knows what a chunk of gold is worth?  My guess is that they don't clear out these cockroaches until JPM has cleared the vaults and all repatriation has occurred.  Shortly after the price hits $400, they will let us know that the Treasury made the trade of the century selling all of Fort Knox to the Chinese for $1T in bond purchases (made through Belgium naturally).

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:33 | 4820816 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture


Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:37 | 4820826 alfred b.
alfred b.'s picture


      Unless there's an adjustment to price discovery from 'outside the network' such as China and/or Russia, the bankster cartel's rigging will remain in effect.


Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:03 | 4820903 scraping_by
scraping_by's picture

At least until the Chinese or Russians are brought into the network. Or prevented from coming anywhere near it.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:22 | 4820947 alfred b.
alfred b.'s picture


     Agreed but supposing that these countries are holding as much gold as is alledged, it would certainly be in their interest to have a much higher price...why would they want to remain just comfortable when they could be overwhelmingly rich, and powerful.   And don't forget that their hoard of US paper may not be worth that much somewhere down the line!!


Tue, 06/03/2014 - 20:31 | 4821696 PhilofOz
PhilofOz's picture

Surely they don't want a higher price while they are still gathering as much as they can get their hands on as they steadily dump US paper.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:42 | 4820841 nixy
nixy's picture

That bloke from Barclays that was fined for manipulaation?....... he only emailed someone else to set rig the price lower..... why weren't the 'someone elses' given a slap as well??...... anyone???

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:56 | 4820884 scraping_by
scraping_by's picture

Single scapegoats save on expenses. While he's banned from the City, I'm sure there's a well-paying sinecure waiting for him. Start doing whole-gang hangings, the salaries start to add up.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:52 | 4820867 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

What they don't see is the downstream impact beyond their own "right now" bonus money.  The empty vaults full of IOUs.  The miners going out business because the banks are telling people their non-existent gold is safe.  And gold will end where it should have gone in the first place.  Only dumb money bankers will have lost their tickets and their customers tickets to ride.  All Madoff's customers thought he was a friggen genius until they day he told them he had lost everything too.  Bankers are friggen morons who sell other people's stuf until it runs out.  Then they go belly up.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 17:48 | 4821321 vulcanraven
vulcanraven's picture

"Bankers are friggen morons who sell other people's stuff until it runs out.  Then they go belly up."

If anyone wants to read about my personal experience with this, check my link below. This man took my grandmother for over 100k, my mother and her sister for 150k. These sociopathic cocksuckers prey on peoples naivety when it comes to finance. They sell themselves as an "economic advisor" and once your trust is gained, they will use YOUR money to enrich themselves first. Pretty easy to go to Vegas with someone elses bankroll, eh? I am extremely grateful for discovering Zerohedge, this site has helped open my eyes to the horrors of the financial world.

The clincher of this story? MY GRANDMOTHER IS STILL FRIENDS WITH THIS MAN. She still invites him to family functions, every time I see his face I want to choke him to death and impale him on a fucking chainsaw. This man is one of the many reasons I refuse to watch the movie "Wolf of Wall Street". Yeah I get it, you wanna risk your money in the casino, it's on you. But these motherfuckers get rich off of people who have not a clue about anything financial. They produce nothing of value, they merely exist to extract value from those that produce.

So when does project mayhem kick off?


Tue, 06/03/2014 - 23:50 | 4822185 Captain Benny
Captain Benny's picture

"So when does project mayhem kick off?"


Uh it started already, you just haven't strangled the man yet.   You need to catch up!   Cliven Bundy and his posse already gave a lead bullet middle finger to the Federales.   What have you done?

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:49 | 4820868 Zest
Zest's picture

No SHIT it's routine. And it will continue to be this way until it can no longer continue.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:54 | 4820879 JR
JR's picture

03 June 2014 | posted by Jesse's Café Américain:

“Light has come into the world, but some men love the darkness instead of the light, because their deeds are wicked. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not enter into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed for all to see. But whoever lives by the truth will come into the light, so that it may be seen that what they have done has been done in accordance with the truth and God's will." John 3:19- 

Wall Street Firms Using Their Dark Pools To Make Markets in Their Own Stocks

These self-named dark pools are operating as private exchanges, with a faux type of specialist system managing the order book, with all the insight and power that it entails.  The layman may not quite comprehend this, but anyone familiar with Wall Street operations and history will certainly do so.

That they are trading for their own parent company stocks, and possibly for their own books, ought to raise more than a few eyebrows. 

We ought to have internalized the lesson by now that markets are not naturally efficient and self-regulating.  But even more so when the business of price setting and order matching is being done in darkness, and apparently with lax regulatory oversight and institutionalized conflicts of interest.

The lack of integrity in the Western financial system must seem appalling to anyone whose ears are not firmly taped to the corporate news feeds droning out of New York and London to their jaded listeners.  Another lie, another fraud, another abuse of oaths and trust.    Tra la, tra la, comme ci comme ça.

The Banks must be restrained, and the financial system reformed, with balance restored to the economy, before there can be any sustainable recovery :


After Charges of Running a Price Fixing Cartel on Nasdaq in the 90s,
Wall Street Banks Are Now Trading Their Own Stocks in Darkness
By Pam Martens and Russ Martens: June 3, 2014

On July 17, 1996, the U.S. Justice Department charged the biggest names on Wall Street, names like Merrill Lynch, JPMorgan and predecessor firms to Citigroup, with pricing fixing on the electronic stock market known as Nasdaq...

Yesterday we learned that the very same Wall Street firms charged with price fixing in the 90s have somehow conned their regulators into allowing them to own their own dark pools – effectively unregulated stock exchanges – and make markets in the stock of their very own Wall Street bank.

The Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (FINRA) – a self-regulatory Wall Street body (which under a previous name was responsible for missing the Nasdaq price fixing for more than a decade) released trading data yesterday for the dark pools operating the week of May 12 – 16. This was the first time such data has been released. The data releases are set to continue..."

Read the entire article with the details here.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:01 | 4820896 scraping_by
scraping_by's picture

But Ayn Rand said they'd act ethically out of their own rational self-interest. You think Little Orgy Aynnie might have missed something about rationality or self-interest, do you?




Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:38 | 4821013 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

You're confusing real producers with parasites.

Banks produce counterfeit paper, not real goods.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 17:33 | 4821305 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

Rand did not believe that the lust for Larceny was universal.

She did not believe that the Lust For Larceny was the twister of men's reason, turning the creative machinery of their minds away from productivity to rationalization of Larceny.

In her version of reality, power could only be trustworthily concentrated and enjoyed by the Productive, who were endowed with it in any case.

But the truth is that concentrated power is the destroyer of worlds, and no man or woman has the moral strength to stand against it.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 16:24 | 4821168 Charles Nelson ...
Charles Nelson Reilly's picture

Ummm, bankers of the old days were ethical (for the most part).  You see shithead, there was this tangible thing called gold that couldn't be conjured up out of thin air and the currency was tied to.  Plus back then there were these crazy things called LAWS, and if you broke them you'd go to jail.  (See the S&L Crisis). 

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 18:29 | 4821434 Bemused Observer
Bemused Observer's picture

The bitter, sociopathic bitch failed to take human nature into account. Like they ALL do. Because they either don't see it, or refuse to because it's too much like staring into the mirror.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 14:54 | 4820880 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

Watch no one go to jail and the price get driven down even more.

They will do that behind the scene just to make it look like the MANIPULATION didn't matter.

I hope i live long enough to see that fail.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:00 | 4820891 madcows
madcows's picture

There are two types of manipulation.  This version... the one where some jackoff buys and sells some paper gold in order to screw a client doesn't really affect the world, so much.  Sure, the price got pushed a few dollars one way or the other, and an investor got ripped off.  The jackoff should go to jail.

But, the other kind of manipulation is what I don't see talked about.  That's the one where paper gold is printed en masse, and the result is the value of REAL gold goes down by hundreds or thousands of dollars.


All I've seen thus far is few crooked bankers screwing clients, not some massive 100% cost manipulation... which I believe exists at the international/IMF/Central bank level.  Go get that story Tylers.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 18:55 | 4821494 Grouchy Marx
Grouchy Marx's picture

It means you can stackup at bargain prices. 


Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:00 | 4820893 ptoemmes
ptoemmes's picture

"...There's danger on the edge of town
Ride the King's highway, baby
Weird scenes inside the gold mine
Ride the highway west, baby "

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:01 | 4820897 Took Red Pill
Took Red Pill's picture

According to this article, the Chinese have known about the manipulation for a long time;

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:55 | 4821070 TruthTalker
TruthTalker's picture

and love it - as they hoard and back their currency with gold the banksters put it on sale - well it is on sale for us too - and they should keep up the manipulation because most if us do not have enough yet. 

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:02 | 4820898 nixy
nixy's picture

No one interviewed Blunkett yet? He does actually exist?

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:13 | 4820925 DarthVaderMentor
DarthVaderMentor's picture

The Ecuadorian government wants to know when the class action suits against Barclays will be filed and they can join as GS clients?......LoL

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:18 | 4820931 nixy
nixy's picture

".....By placing a large sell order on the fix Mr Plunkett pushed the gold price beneath the barrier, thus avoiding the payout. After the counterparty complained..."

How did the counterparty KNOW this price drop had been rigged?

What's the difference between THIS price drop against other price drops??

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 23:53 | 4822197 Captain Benny
Captain Benny's picture


Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:25 | 4820959 goldhedge
goldhedge's picture

You won't read this headline in the mainstream media.  It will be tucked away to keep the sheeple safe.


Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:46 | 4821037 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture


The FT?

Reporting (snigger) a gentle massage with no happy ending.

Move along folks...nothing to see here.

I'm off to read the Economist and learn how the polar bears need sunblock because of global warming.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:49 | 4821055 ReactionToClose...
ReactionToClosedMinds's picture

yeah, The Economist will get to the bottom of this ......

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:48 | 4821050 ReactionToClose...
ReactionToClosedMinds's picture

we know better ..... we are experienced & we can blow up the world ala Sorcerer's Apprentice .............and the financial 'news' media just wants to be cool like big deal.  Especially when financial 'news' media get coopted just like politicians, regulators and anyone else party to the 'foodchain'.

"Chicago" is everywhere ....not just in Rahm's conciousness


Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:52 | 4821066 ReactionToClose...
ReactionToClosedMinds's picture

Plunkett must be asking did Jon Corzine do what he did .... on so massive a scale blowing up client accounts no less............and the financial 'news' media calls Corzine's trades close to being the trade of the century......... that is some good public relations story planting by Corzine's PR.  How much did that cost?

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 15:53 | 4821067 nink
nink's picture

I don't think the game is over yet.  People have been falling for fools gold for thousands of years, The new digital fools gold is just the begining. Now the owners are all screaming for their gold back the bankers will come up with a new rehypotecation process and it will involve pointing to the gold in your pocket. 

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 16:12 | 4821127 nosoeawe
nosoeawe's picture

how the fuck does a group of impotent, limp dicked, geriatric, myopic, constipated, metamucil swigging limeys fix the price of a any commodity?

can't wait for that stroke to catch up to each of these lying, vile, ceaser kissing, lawless, inhumane, degenerate mongrels.




Tue, 06/03/2014 - 18:02 | 4821364 Deathrips
Deathrips's picture

Neo-Shylocking (TM)?


Do tell.



Tue, 06/03/2014 - 16:33 | 4821188 Hindenburg...Oh Man
Hindenburg...Oh Man's picture

Hey, CNBC tells me that this is a technical move for gold....

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 16:34 | 4821191 dabronx199
dabronx199's picture

Goldman just on CNBC saying $1050 gold year end       





Thu, 06/05/2014 - 13:01 | 4827171 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

That will  bring silver to 13.60/oz and bring USLV to 10.60/share.
I'll load up on both & by the time the paper price explodes USLV will make me paper-rich while my silver ounces will probably exceed any hope of me reasonably carrying it.
Time to load up the next tippy canoe.
Depending on the situation some of that would end up being 0.1 oz gold maples but we'll see.

By the time silver rises back to 50/oz USLV will be 1630/share, gold will be 2000/oz.

math: higher silver prices lead to a higher constant for USLV equation, probably 2800, today more around 2600;

uslv = silver 3.92 / 2800 for 50/oz

(gold / 285) 2 = silver

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 16:36 | 4821196 dabronx199
dabronx199's picture
Forbes: Link Dollar to Gold or Face Great Depression II

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 16:43 | 4821213 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

The LIBOR rigging was far more detrimental to far more people than the gold rigging. The gold rigging mislead far more people than the LIBOR rigging in that many folks look at gold's "price" to see if there is has served as terrific camouflage for the Feds to print at will.


Just as the banks used the gold rigging to screw derivatives buyers, they used LIBOR rigging to screw those buying SWAPS as protection against rate increases. In fact the banks demanded of many people that they buy SWAPS before they were provided loans they sought.


It is all criminal. Just where is our FTC on all this? Do we still have an FTC? Guess not.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 16:48 | 4821230 p00k1e
p00k1e's picture

Thinking about this so-called 'revelation', gold being manipulated.

When this 'fact' came out today, gold jumped up less than $2.00 an OZ.  Have the manipulations been priced in or were contracts sold parallel, as the public became aware of the manipulation, earlier today?    

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 16:54 | 4821240 pcrs
pcrs's picture

nudging the price a bit around option expiration is not the manipulation I was thinking about. Happens with stocks all the time as well. Part of the game. I think there is more going on with paper gold silver being sold, not backed by anything.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 17:00 | 4821249 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

When no one jumps in to stop criminal activity, it will simplyget lots worse.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 17:10 | 4821265 Muki
Muki's picture

Do we know ANY market which is not rigged?

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 17:47 | 4821331 JR
JR's picture

Even the Dow performance is manipulated.

“The Dow Jones Industrial Average started with just 12 stocks in 1886 and grew to its current 30-stock roster in two big jumps: in 1916 the average was expanded from 12 to 20 stocks; and, in 1928, the final move from 20 to 30 stocks was made.

“When Dow created his first Average (now the Transportation Average [1886]), he simply divided the total of all the prices by eleven (the number of stocks on the Average) to get his result.” -- Randy Befumo

Wim Grommen, in his article, The Dow 30 is the Greatest of All Ponzi Schemes, published in Dutch in January 2010 and August 21, 2013, on Financial Market Analytics reports: “A brief history of how the Dow 30 was changed through the years shows that the Nov.3/10 Dow 30 index value of 12,215 on November 3, 2010, would have been 49.395 if the Dow were still using its original formula of 1896.”

Good luck to the Fed and cohorts trying to explain away their opaque mechanical computing of the Averages on stock splits and stock dividends blah, blah, blah.

Thu, 06/05/2014 - 12:35 | 4827151 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

"blah blah blah "

most astute analysis I've seen yet.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 17:31 | 4821300 esum
esum's picture


Tue, 06/03/2014 - 17:33 | 4821304 lordlyking
lordlyking's picture

Great freegold expose going on at pete's freed gold blog.   he's calling out Roacheforque and FOFOA to face some truths and facts. Seems that neither is up to the challenge. Wonder why that might be? They've been exposed as liars. Freegold fight and looks like pete has got the empirical ammo to blow this thing up. Have to say i always thought FOFOA acted like a smug shit, and the claim against him is that he has silenced FOA once and for all.

Tue, 06/03/2014 - 17:46 | 4821325 Ban KKiller
Ban KKiller's picture

A big bank involved in crime?

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!