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France Responds To US BNP Fine, Will Train Hundreds Of Russian Seamen To Operate French-Made Warship
In the aftermath of the Russian sanctions, which French president Francois Hollande vehemently approved after constantly slamming Russia's involvement in the Ukraine conflict, and even went so far to threaten the cancellation of a delivery of a powerful French-made amphibious assault warship, the Mistral, to be delivered to Russia something happened: in the latest demonstration of its impotence to punish domestic bankers, the US decided to slap a French bank, BNP Paribas with a $10 billion fine for money laundering.
As a result, France has suddenly found itself battling two populist fronts: on one hand it had to continue its foreign policy track of siding with NATO and the US when it comes to Russian developments; on the other it had to responds to howls of protest from the population bashing the US for having the temerity to punish its flagship bank (recall "France Furious At US $10 Billion BNP "Masterful Slap", "Racketeering" Fine").
Today, it was revealed that in weighing the two evils, it picked what it thought was the lesser one, and as the WSJ reports "a group of 400 Russian sailors are scheduled to arrive on June 22 in the French Atlantic port of Saint-Nazaire to undergo months of instruction before some of them pilot the first of two Mistral-class carriers back to Russia in the fall, said one of these people."
As the WSJ explains, the training is a pivotal step that deepens France's commitment to fulfilling the €1.2 billion ($1.6 billion) contract to supply Russia with the carriers, which are built to launch amphibious attacks with landing craft, helicopters and tanks.
That this is taking place even as the U.S. and other allies have called on the government of President François Hollande to cancel the contract, "arguing the ships will significantly enhance Russian naval power at a time when the Ukraine crisis has raised tensions with the Kremlin to their highest levels since the Cold War," demonstrates conclusively that money talks and diplomacy walks. It also demonstrates that in the increasingly more fragile western alliance against Russia (recall further that German commercial interests have made it quite clear they will not agree with any further Russian sanctions over fears of lost revenue), Obama's foreign policy partners are dropping like flies when the opportunity cost is lost business with the Kremlin.
Paris insists the training doesn't tie its hands and that it won't make a final decision on the delivery until October. But Mr. Hollande's government also has said France intends to honor the contract, and privately officials give no indication they will renege.
France's ability to reverse course on the delivery, defense analysts say, will be diplomatically and commercially constrained once the Russian Navy arrives on its shores to begin the training and prepare to drive the carrier home.
"Four hundred Russian trainees are rather difficult to keep below the radar," said Nick Witney, a defense analyst with the European Council on Foreign Relations. Other observers say that Paris's credibility to deliver on future contracts is also at stake.
As noted, Obama will not be happy and the training of Russian seamen will surely be a topic of hot debate between Obama and Hollande when the two meet in Paris today, on the eve of D-Day commemorations on the beaches of Normandy, where ironically Russia's Putin will not be present, but Ukraine's new "chocolate king" president will be.
It is not just Obama who will be furious with the latest revelation, further impairing his foreign policy credibility: other European nations are sure to voice their anger too, most notably Poland which feels particularly threatened by developments in the Ukraine:
For months, France has faced staunch opposition from the Obama administration and other Western governments including the U.K. to the plan to sell the ships—criticism that has grown in the wake of Russia's annexation of Ukraine's breakaway Crimea region. In an interview published in French daily Le Monde on Monday, Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski warned Russia might use the ships to "threaten neighbors."
"We have named Russia as an aggressor in Crimea, and I don't think France would want to be supplying useful arms to an aggressor," Mr. Sikorski said.
However, as stated earlier money, Russian money, talks:
The tug of war over the Mistral illustrates how Europe's reliance on Russian resources risks unraveling strategic alliances that helped the West win the Cold War. The European Union is deeply divided over how far the bloc should go in imposing sanctions on Russia over its Ukraine incursion. Russian natural gas powers homes and businesses across Germany, the EU's biggest economy, while Russian oligarchs store their fortunes in U.K. banks.
France's economy—hobbled by decades of de-industrialization and rising labor costs—is hungry for large defense contracts that could help get the country's beleaguered shipyards back on their feet. Saint Nazaire, a port which boasts a proud history of building France's biggest ships, now relies on the occasional cruise-ship contract for economic survival.
The government says about a thousand jobs are at stake, in a country with more than 10% unemployment and a stalled economy.
Calling off the Mistral contract, a French official said, would be akin to "shooting yourself in the foot," forcing Paris to take the costly step of reimbursing Moscow.
France has already completed the first ship and built half of the second Mistral, which is scheduled for delivery in 2015. The second ship is named The Sevastopol after the Crimean port that serves as a headquarters for Russia's Black Sea Fleet.
Incidentally, the Mistral will fill a key missing void in Russia's Black Sea fleet: the ability to launch amphibious assaults on bordering nations, such as Georgia.
The Mistral, which looms over the town, is a potent weapon. The length of more than two football fields, the ship is designed to edge up to a shoreline and deploy more than a dozen tanks and attack helicopters as well as hundreds of troops. This type of ship is also an integral part of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization's defenses, using sensitive communications technology to coordinate operations with other NATO ships. The potential transfer of that technology to Russia has long worried policy makers on both sides of the Atlantic.
The ship also plugs a crucial gap in Russia's armed forces. Moscow boasts one of the world's largest armies and a formidable air force. But Russia's Black Sea fleet lacks an amphibious vessel like the Mistral, capable of launching a land invasion. That weakness deprived Moscow of a crucial knockout punch in 2008, when Russian troops invaded Georgia but never managed to dominate the former Soviet countries shoreline, forcing a stalemate.
"A ship like that would have allowed the Black Sea Fleet to accomplish its mission in 40 minutes," Russian Navy Admiral Vladimir Vysotkiy said at the time.
Ironically, it was none other than former French president Sarkozy, who had brokered the truce between Russia and Georgia in 2008, who proposed building the ship which would have made Russia's annexation of Georgia a walk in the park.
The proposal to sell France's prized warship to Russia grew out of the Georgian conflict. In October 2008, France's president at the time, Nicolas Sarkozy met with his counterpart President Dmitry Medvedev in the Alpine town of Evian in a bid to shore up a fragile truce Mr. Sarkozy had brokered between Russia and Georgia weeks earlier. By offering to sell Russia the Mistrals, Mr. Sarkozy aimed to persuade the Russians that NATO was no longer an enemy.
Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili flew to Paris to protest the sale, but Mr. Sarkozy brushed aside his complaints during a tense meeting in the Élysée Palace, according to a French official. "Look Mikheil, Russia is not going to invade Georgia with this boat," Mr. Sarkozy said, according to the official. Mr. Sarkozy then quipped that it was no use worrying about a Russian invasion, because the Russians were "already in your territory."
Years later, the sale has come back to haunt France's government.
And now it is set to haunt the US as well: "Last month, Assistant Secretary for Europe Victoria Nuland told U.S. lawmakers: "We have regularly and consistently expressed our concerns about this sale."
Things are only set to get worse for the State Department once photos of hundreds of "sanctioned" Russian troops being trained by the French hit the front pages of newspapers around the world, in clear defiance of US policy:
French officials haven been poring over the technical details of the training session and deliberating how to temporarily house the Russian troops while they are in French territory without attracting too much attention, said one of the people familiar with the matter.
Russia and France had planned to lodge the troops in a Russian vessel docked in Saint-Nazaire, but the person said French officials are reviewing more discreet options.
Meanwhile it is none other than Putin who continues to have the last laugh, again, and again.
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Maybe France will sail them to ny and demand gold like they did in 71
They'll have to get by the gauntlet of German U-boats. They just might try it with Russian personnel....what the hell do they care?
That will be some crowded waters.
Globalisation will bring us world peace!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ...
Russia must be in very bad shape to consider purchasing French made ships. I'd rather go to war in a wooden canoe.
I had a wooden car - wooden seats, wooden engine, wooden brakes, wooden steering wheel, wooden radiator, wooden carbies ...
Trouble is, it wooden go!
Sorry. Just beware what you say, it might remind me of something silly.
BNP fined versus training Russian sailors . It is a case of the biter bit ( in French we say "l'arroseur arrosé", that is the waterer getting wet in return") Let us hope the ships have no leaks !!!
Why should French bank BNP be fined and not American firms British Petroleum and Exxonmobil who also disobeyed the US boycott, this time against Russia, by signing contracts with Russian firms at Saint-Petersburg International Forum on 24 May 2014?
On 24 May, British Petroleum signed a contract with Russian oil giant Rosneft for exploring oil in Central Russia . ExxonMobil signed a contract for taking part in building a terminal to the Pacific Coast for Russian liquid gas.
If BP and EXXONMOBIL are not condemned ten billion dollar fines each as well, we should suspect the American justice of extorting money from foreign firms for the sake of their unsolvent nation.
This is brilliant! One has to marvel at the ability of these idiots in WDC to shoot themselves in their own foot. They are so arrogant that they have lost any sign of intelligence.
The rest of the world has already noticed.
Will they be serving Freedom Fries in the mess hall of these ships?
The ten billion dollar fine is meant to tell the French you will lose more money if you sell those ships.
We will have to see how long French pride lasts.
They make it sound like a spontaneous, knee-jerk reaction to US flubs. Obama is a fool buit I don't think you build 2 aircraft carriers and expect somebody will show up to buy them later like a spec home.
Maybe the two ships will be "Rainbow Warriored" before they leave dock.
France's economy, like many others, is in serious trouble. The last thing they need is a cancellation of some huge orders of manufactured goods (war materials here) and loss of future armament contracts. The weapons trade [as previously reported here on ZH and other papers] is a massive revenue stream for many of these countries. Shuttered factories and high Yute unemployment of anxious, distraught yung'ns is definitely NOT what these countries want.
The problematic youths are already unemployed or underemployed. They aren't in shipbuilding.
The ten billion dollars for the clowning around of a few BNP asshats...
One could buy about a dozen Mistrals and create thousands of steel and shipbuilding jobs in France (even with their grossly inefficient labor system) for the same ten billion Bernanke/Yellen asswipes.
If one strung up Eric the Bagholder and took all his bankster extortion bucks they could finance some hefty job creation that might actually benefit "his people"...
That was one of the best one sentence descriptions of present American foreign policy I have read! "They are so arrogant that they have lost any sign of intelligence."
I see American foreign policy as a case of the government of the USA beginning to believe their own propaganda about their exceptionalism. If you heard Obama's speech on foreign policy at West Point, you will note that he claimed an absolute right to act unilaterally on the world stage, and to be under no obligations regarding international law, recognized borders and other nations interests. He said if the USA decides it is in American interests to act, then AMerican actions are legal, by the might makes right principal. In short, all other nations are obligated to follow UN mandates and international law, the USA, as exceptional, need follow no laws, rules or regulations. Thus the Iraq invasion was not a war crime, but a unilateral act by the USA, which is a right of the one exceptional nation.
This type of policy will lead to world war, just look at Ukraine yesterday, where Obama's Right Sector fighters killed 25 Ukrainian resistance fighters in their hospital beds. Perhaps more were executed , the count is still coming in. Still, by all norms of accepted warfare, this is a war crime. To shoot wounded men in a hospital is a war crime. But Obama supports the Kiev RIght Sector fighters as allies of the NATO, so nothing will be said or done. Also, a missile attack like 2 days ago, could be comsidered a war crime.
Ukraine acts under US direction. The head of the CIA and Vice President, and now Obama himself have all been to advie Kiev. The murders yesterday confirm that the USA leaders have told Kiev to act like the USA would act. NO international law applies to Ukraine. Ukraine as a US puppet, is now exceptional, and has rights Russia or East Ukraine do not have.
When payback for Kiev's war crimes does happen, and it will be paid back, then Obama will scream foul and demand an international war crimes trial. You see, there are two laws. The US and it's allies, i.e. Kiev, are endowed with the exceptional rights of making their own laws. At West Point Obama told the world that American Might, Makes Right. We will do what ever we please, and all others will be held to the international laws and be punished for breaking any of them.
Foreign policy tends to get real arrogant right before a major conflict starts.
The Nova Mob in full stride now. We need Inspector Lee and the Nova Police now!
Hey Jack didnt see or hear anything about those hospital murders on ZH or the news???
found this, poor English so something might have been lost in translation and of course not verified:
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/734712
Obama's use of the term "American exceptionalism" is instructive.
The term has been used by three different constituencies:
Historians. De Tocqueville first referred to America as "exceptional". The idea being that as a country of immigrants fleeing repressive regimes and seeking freedom, America is unique among all nations.
Neoconservatives. They use the term in order to justify whatever stupid shit they want to do.
Communists. Wait, what?? "The exact term "American exceptionalism" has been in use since at least the 1920s and saw more common use after Soviet leader Joseph Stalin chastised members of the Jay Lovestone-led faction of the American Communist Party for their belief that America was independent of the Marxist laws of history "thanks to its natural resources, industrial capacity, and absence of rigid class distinctions". American Communists started using the English term "American exceptionalism" in factional fights."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism
"Right Sector fighters killed 25 Ukrainian resistance fighters in their hospital beds."
When at least 1/3 of your economy (read: tax base) is at stake, you don't fuck around.
The French pride themselves on having several Mistresses. Who is to complain ?
Vive' la France, or some such.
Only the sociopathic ones. The ratio of the sexes over there is around 1:1, like in most other places, and like in most other places, attachment is mostly to one other person.
How many more countries will the policies of yhe arrogant corrupt narxissistic illegal alien sociopathic liar in chief alienate and drive into the arms of Putin? How do u spell gross incompetence? L-i-a-r-i-n-c-h-i-e-f...
IMHO this is his plan. I suspect he is a Russian plant - the real Manchurian candidate
Watch out for those French made exocet missiles (as the Brits found out in the Falklands)
those frenchies and ruskies suck! USA! USA! USA!
I get that you're being sarcastic, but not everyone else does, judging by the arrows.
I junked you so clearly (?) I am a Mex
So does that make him a Gringo?
pejoritive: A pejorative (also term of abuse, term of disparagement, or derogatory term) is a word or grammatical form of expression that expresses contempt, criticism, hostility...
Slang for Greek.
As in ,may as well be speaking Greek.
+ 1,000
There can only be one of two clear choices. Don't think about it.
If your choice differs from mine, we go to war.
Dem or Repub?
What channel do you watch?
This or that?
Him or him, He or she?
Marketing
what a society of idiots we have become.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUZu8bvxJs4
Exocet were reliable missile indeed.
We're just making friends everywhere.
Apple pie and marxism.....what's not to love?
We just sent 5 highly trained muslim terrorists back to the world.....you're welcome.
I'd be careful throwing around the word "apple" if I were you. I do believe it's trademarked.
Those guys will do the work for the USA in SYRIA. That is why they were released and the US prisoner was just an excuse to get these boys on the ground in Syria.
Ah......the Qatar connection, or
"Dr. Regime Change: or How I Was Raped By A New Pipeline Shoved Up My Backdoor."
The story about prisoner exchange doesn’t make sense. Why did they exchange 5 Taliban prisoners for a deserter? It looks more like Obozo wanted to do a favor to the Taliban. Bergdhal is meaningless for the USSA. So why free 5 Taliban commanders in exchange of a deserter?
There is more to this story.
Is anyone talking about the VA scandal now? Baam! Winning!
He wants to use them in Syria.
Not so sure he's a real 'deserter'. How do you know he's not being provided with "deep cover"?
Don't forget... the breadth and depth of Deception in the spy trade is way beyond the common man, and beyond most in the business itself.
Same thoughts myself.
Obo is a fuckhead, but to "give up" 5 for 1 (deserter no less!) the WH had to know this blowback was coming. But might be worth it if he was not actually a deserter.
Dude might even be subject to a show trial - but when he's either found not guilty (freedom) or convicted (is there a live webcam in his 'cell'?) it won't matter because he will be put wherever the spooks want him. Maybe even back in the field!
Maybe it was so the Taliban won't sing about the arms deal gone bad in Benghazi?
Just digging the hole deeper.
Notice 2 of the 5 "alledgedly" comitted war crimes as they slaughtered large numbers of shia Muslims. Hmm, which brand of Muslims run Syria and Iran? These guys are on Al CIAduhs' payrole. Can not leave Qatar until their work in Syria is complete.
Much, much, much more.
Arrogance.
Y nithin on ZH re terrorist dream team exchange for alleged coward , traitor muslim? Another gr8 move by the arrogant narcissistic illegal alien ignoramus liar in chief.
With the first BNP fine, all I was thinking: what about those American banks?
You can't fine a foreign bank, police your own shit first.
Remember months ago when I told you the US is NOT your friend and not to depend on us to do the right thing? I think you're starting to see what I meant by that.
A few weeks ago I was talking to my parents about russia and the US and all.
My father just said: We must be greatfull we have the US and whatever they decide is the right thing, they're the police of the world.
Bam, discussion closed.
And a very large amount still thinks this way. The NSA spying? If the US says it's good, who are we to question that.
And when I say: the US is not what it was 10 years ago, they don't want to hear it.
Mind that these generations grew up hearing only pro US propaganda without any independent sources to gain information.
If you do things the American way, you can have a Big Mac®.
For breakfast. lunch and dinner! Then vomit yellow crap all over the sidewalk like that guy in "Supersize Me"
Our foreign policy has been this fucked-up since at least WWI. (Read Smedley Butler's "War is a Racket") It's just that we were on the up-slope of the growth curve then and it was easier to sell the pablum to the masses. It's much more difficult to now, in spite of many "true believers" of the propaganda.
It's not just the US that's in decline though (which it is). Now, everyone's fighting for the last dregs at the bottom of the punch bowl.
Funny how things are getting more insane by the year as we run out of cheap energy. This includes our self importance and self righteousness. Rhetorically and militarily we are writing checks our bodies can't cash.
Mine too. They completely trust the GOV to do the right thing for us all.
I have to stay out of it with them. My dad has a heart condition.
Holder apparently believes that a foreign governments' investigation of US banks operating in their countries would turn them all up lilly white.
It will come around, asshole.
It is a known fact that French politicians are street walkers.
Hic hic snort
They prefer to be perceived as Pragmatic, rather than Dogmatic. Different worldviews, different survival strategies.
At this point in history, I would invite ideologues everywhere to stick a dick in it.
The same with morality, there's no room in a fiat world for that shit!
We each need to worry about our own morality. Lead by example.
But Pepsi told me to "Live for now" when they changed their logo to an Obama symbol. That's why I'm bought a second merserati or whatever you call them with the equity in my home. I got a great deal, they threw in some fuzzy dice.
"Fuzzy dice, bongoes in the back,
my ship of love is ready to attack."
-- FZ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMSQ1vCxZJU
French philosophers are some of the greatest:
“It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.”~ Volatire
BTW, the new French military policy will be to mount guns on the soldiers rumps that will automatically fire when they start running. Studies indicate it will result in a near 100% improvement in effectiveness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUjGf2Grrus
Actually those gun mounts will need to be self-leveling since Frogs like to jump as they hop away from danger.
(I would have used Cheese Eating Surrender Monkey but once you've surrendered what's the use of running away.)
In fact this ugly disdain and pitiful jokes come from the firm refusal of the French to join America in Irak, in 2003.
Since France refused to go to Iraq, American warmongers and neo-cons made French army look like cowards – as a punishment. But History has proved the French were right.
Nevertheless, the hate of american warmongers against France remains still there, well alive, even in ZH.
BTW : Anyone daring to compare JEWS or BLACK PEOPLE with MONKEYS, would immediately, and rightly, be denounced by everybody as a nasty RACIST (or some sort of nazi) ... But it seems that in this country, which in fact owe its independence to the French, this kind of mean anti-french racism is pretty well tolerated …
Silly guy. It was a joke. One of my best friends is French and we constantly rib each other's countries. He doesn't take the least offense and neither do I.
OK for you, but there is a great difference between private jokes between friends and public bashing.
I take these kind of public bashing for what it is:
When the French are treated of "Cheese-eating surrender MONKEYS", it is in the exact same way that the nazis before WW2 used to treat the Jews – denying them the right to be Human being, and calling them "dirty" "cowards" and "rats".
Better a cheese eating surrender monkey than a solipsistic, genocidal maniac, which is what the US war cheerleaders actually are. These jokes are really on them, don't worry.
LOL!!!!!
I would love to see a third side emerge. Go anarchists!
Kind of wish that the people in charge geopolitically would just participate in Thunderdome to sort their differences out. Two men enter, one man leaves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmRAiUPdRjk&feature=kp
President Hulkster, your car is waiting.
Behold the audacity of the American elites. Telling a foreign country to cancel an order for ships placed by another soverign nation we don't like. George Washington is rolling over in his grave.
Foreign, occupied country to be precise. Don't forget, Europe is covered with US military bases.
I dont get it, if they dont want those bases there they can just kick them out. I think the Euros are using the USA, we pay for all their defense and they pay next to nothing.
No US bases in France.
remember the whole concept of global reserve currency? check how many container ships sail empty, and from where. but psst... it's not polite to mention this. better to stick with the story of "defense freeriding"
meanwhile, the whole yearly budget for defense in Russia is around 70 billions. the eurozone's aggregated one alone is twice that, the eu's three times that
Placed there just waiting for the scenario that seems to be presenting itself now...................................Reset
George Washington is one thing, Thucydides another. You think any of the copter-heads in the capital know how the Peloponnesian War got kick started? What happens when France decides to "limit" its ties to NATO?
if you want to compare with the Peloponnesian War you have to write a bit more, too cryptic this way. yet anyway, France already took once a "vacation" from NATO
Off topic but I have to vent, just red a MSM article (from the best of the worst for the Ukraine events just to see if they are still pedalling their bullshit) and in one of the articles Barry O said that Pottyshitenko was a wise choice for Ukraine president, visionary because of his 'business experience (wink wink nudge nudge)' and praised him for 'reaching out to the east (S-8 fragment missles and all for great party experience)' according to the Guardian. Absolute cocksucker, fuck 'em all.
Poroshenko fortune from prostitution, weapons, drugs...and take over businesses by force in the time of troubles.
His Father was same. Ukrainian "Red Mafiya" Private army persuaded or killed to takeover assets.
Doesn't make any difference. All sides push for their very own gangsters to capture power over the resources.
Then he simply copied a well-proven strategy that goes back almost a thousand years, to the Robber Knights of Europe.
After a while, the roving bands of Marauders realized that a better business model is to provide 'security' for the raid-plagued villagers. They soon build forts (castles) and started charging the villagers ever increasing Protection fees. In time, the leader passed on his power and wealth to his kids, and that's how the "Aristocracy" of the Middle Ages was born.
Economic and personal extortion has always been around -- in different forms, banners and labels.
$1.2B buys all that? the financial system has gotten so big and ridiculous that a single billionaire could buy his own navy.
The LA Clippers are worth more than 2 French navy carriers?
excellent point
If goes to show you how over-priced sports has become. TV rights and tickets keep going up.
Thanks to the Federal Reserve. Unfortunately a ham sandwich will soon be $1000.
Perhaps the US can get the British to attack and sink the ship while it is still in the French port.
Good idea.
The could call it "Operation Churchill's Return".
Yes what with?
The British are reliant on the French to provide aircraft for their aircraft carriers (once they're actually built that is.)
And this button opens the pastry case.
You can also use the case to store your vodka. Neat huh?
Almost impossible for Putin not to have the "last laugh" considering what he gets to laugh at - a barrel full of monkeys. He must occasionally feel like he's died and gone to heaven.
Not sure what the Russian translation will be but .......
ceci est mon drapeau blanc, il ya beaucoup comme lui mais celui-ci est le mien...........
Mon drapeau est plus gros, ecouter mois et ignorer tous les autre. Je suis ici pour vous aider.
rough translation of above
My flag is bigger, listen months and ignore all else. I'm here to help you.
Seriously, why would any nation cooperate with the USA in any way, shape, or form anymore? We fuck over everyone, we backstab our allies, we release hardened terrorists in trade for a worthless terrorist sympathizing cunt who deserted our soldiers, we arm and train terrorists, we draw red lines that our leadership wont back up, our POSident is proud to have accelerrated a national decline, our fellow citizens don't give a flying fuck about liberty, our NSA spies on every fucking person on the planet 24/7, we drone to death innocent people and say "oops, sorry, we'll try to do it better next time" ... I mean seriously, fuck uncle sam. Putin is a far more reliable partner.
Because OBAMA!
Because that is how empires work ...
Because 300+ years of lyin, cheatin an stealin gotta come out in the wash sumtime
collectively the world would be a better place if people could stop thinking in terms of black vs. white. Putin is a sociopath. He's no better or worse than the sociopaths who run the USSA shitshow. And just like the rest of the sociopaths who we see on the world stage... it's the sociopaths who we don't see who really wield power.
many reasons. first, we like America. second, we are related, also culturally. third, we are big partners in biz. fourth, we are allies
but yes, Sudden Debt is right... ten years, twenty years ago US policies were a bit more comprehensible, for europeans. most of us thought Obama would herald a new age
some of us even thought Obama would shrink the US defense budget to a quarter, a "peace dividend" for global prosperity
Why is it that France designes some ugly ship? (sic)
EDIT: Seriously you guys think that looks good? French engineering (saabs) look good? I'll take a German (Porsche/BMW) or Italian (Ferrari) car over anything French. Ok looks like I'm on my own on this one. I guess no one mentioned the twin screws on the front for faster retreat.
I disagree colonel they have some nice designs in Peugeot and Citroen
http://betterparts.org/peugeot/peugeot-308/peugeot-308-coupe.html
I would say the French design much better than the Germans. And from relatives in Europe they are very happy with the quality, more so than the German makes.
Fair enough, thanks for the courtesy of a response with I guess a well deserved down vote. I have yet to see any decent Peugeot or Citroen. I'll have to investigate further. My last experience with Peugeot was a horrible engine in a Volvo 760 GLE. Neither of those brands are stateside here so I really only have past models from which to form my opinion.
EDIT: Looked at the car, looks good in certain respect but still has some goofy design flaws to it. Still gave you an up arrow for fairness in your reply.
Saab is swedish, not French
He just hates the Frogs because they refuse to bathe and don't changer their underware more than once a month.
The Krauts are just as bad as the Frogs with (dis)respect to their bathing habits. At least the French try cover the odor before both (hypocritically) complain about "dirty" immigrants.
Dats rayciss, and I'm offended.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMtP2_ARY28
Clearly never been to Germany have you?
I can smell Germany from my house (and occasionally go there for cheap groceries).
Thanks for the correction, I'm sure I mean Renault. Either way they're still butt ugly.
@Colonel Klink
Renault engines are not so bad:
Renault is regularly champion of Formula 1 for the motors (at the moment with Red Bull)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Drivers%27_Championship
By the way, Renault is also the supplier for a lot of Mercedes motors:
1.5 DCI 90Ch : Class A, B, CLA
1.5 DCI 109Ch : Class B
1.6 DCI : Class C
Well they sucked aweful bad in the mid 80's. I think they pulled out of the US markets around that time too. Just sayin. Maybe they've gotten better. Thanks for the comment.
Investigate here, my friend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbiV-8UYsPQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6CS9eBn0O8
Full Disclosure: I owned a 1965 Citroen DS in the mid 80s, wish I still had it, worst problem with the car was cops tended to pull you overr just to get a betterr look at it. =)
That's an ugly car.
http://www.psa-peugeot-citroen.com/en/automotive-brands/ds/innovative-lu...
new ones are spiffy
Ok I like that one a bit more. It's doesn't look so contrived.
And doesn't France reverse the brake and gas pedal? Hahaha, J/K!
Weak. By "contrived" I think you mean engineered. The DS had a drag coefficient lower than the Porsche 911 - this meant better mileage and less noise. I recall a trip from LA to Las Vegas, 4 people in the car in total comfort, cruising at 75-80 mph, getting 45mpg. From a 65 car. "Contrived"? You are so full of shit.
Ray Charles... is that you?
French car quality is horrid. GM and Ford from the 80s chased out the last remaining vestages of Frog automobilia. *THINK ABOUT THAT* the worst American cars every built --- ever, chased out the French due to quality issues.
Moreover in the UK, 7 out of the top 10 most UNRELIABLE cars were French.
@Haus-Targaryen
False: 9 out of the top 10 most UNRELIABLE cars were German
Based on data gathered from millions of pounds worth of claims handled by Warranty Direct every year, the Reliability Index brings you the most comprehensive ...
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/
Bottom 10 WorstPosition
Make/Model
Reliability Rating
1
AUDI RS6
1126.00
2
BMW M5
691.00
3
Porsche 911 996
589.00
4
Mercedes-Benz CL
576.00
5
Mercedes-Benz V-Class
566.00
6
Bentley Continental GT
525.00
7
Mercedes-Benz GL
510.00
8
Mercedes-Benz SL
500.00
9
Mercedes-Benz R-Class
471.00
10
Audi Q7
470.00
Top 10 Best
Position
Make/Model
Reliability Rating
1
Honda Jazz
2.00
2
Mitsubishi Lancer
6.00
3
Vauxhall Agila
8.00
4
CHEVROLET KALOS
9.00
5
Toyota Yaris
13.00
6
Suzuki Alto
15.00
7
Mazda MX-5
16.00
8
Suzuki Liana
18.00
9
CITROEN SAXO
18.00
10
Honda HR-V
18.00
SAABs are Swedish....
Well done France!
What, Carnival Cruise cancelled on this one?
Thanks, that kind of justifies what I was saying. The thing looks like a container vessel or unfinished cruise ship.
That's more or less exactly what it is.
There are days when i wonder if US policy is made by day workers hired from the local homeless shelter or something.
Obama should write a book called "How to win friends and influence people". He could get it published on the back of a sugar packet.
Haha.
I read the article and made a comment below but I could have tagged it here.
Obama has traded the 'Ship of State' for a clown car.
Not we but the ruling corrupt political elite and the corrupt narcisstic illegal alien muslim turd liar in chief. It's not our country but the turds in gummint. The good n honorable men and women protecting our freedoms are tageting the wrong enemy.
America's gonna get gang raped by rest of the world powers at this rate. France will be standing by, holding the vaseline
This is exactly why Putin wants to show Europe he is no threat with this military. The idea is that USA is the playground bully and at some point all the little kids will gang up on him, ie they will drop the dollar. The Russians and Chinese know the soft belly of the USA is the dollar reserve status. Once that is gone the USA military and bases will shrink prodigiously.
Its one thing to recognize the potential value of a system based on an alternative reserve currency. Its quite another when the biggest beneficiary of the current system acts like a fucking punk towards everyone else. There's some major motivation going around to retaliate against western totalitarianism, and we're past the tipping point. The rate and severity of american decline is now completely in the hands of obozo, and he's bit off way more than he can chew for the next two years.
And the Japanese will be taking pictures. Lots and lots of pictures.
looks like the frogs are turning up the burner
First Germany's quiet "nein" to sanctions and now Frances loud "Fuck off" on cancelling ship sales to Russia looks like another failed attempt by Obama to get his Euro-ducks to line up behind him.
It's starting to look like Europe doesn't want to follow a cooked goose.
Give it up Obama. Go home and play golf. You really suck at this job because it's far beyond the capabilities of a community organizer affirmative action hire.
"..most notably Poland which feels particularly threatened by developments in the Ukraine" the Ugly rear it's Head .. err or was is ugly head? whatever same thing
who would buy a mechanical device from the French silly fools they really do not have a clue do they
Lets be fair.
My high school girlfriend's Dad owned a Pugeot and it was the first car I ever saw that had fully reclining seats. The car ran like shit but those reclining seats while parking were awesome.
The French have their own unique take on functionality.
Must have those reclining seats when they take their 1 hour morning break, 2 hour lunch break and 1 hour afternoon break.
Need to be able to recline for that amount of time each day.
Mistake 1- the Peugot; mistake 2 - letting your teenage daughter use it.
Fuck the US!