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90% Of Gazprom Clients Have "De-Dollarized", Will Transact In Euro & Renminbi

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Following Obama and Putin's "caught on tape" meeting Vine'd by the French President, we can't help but wonder if the Russian leaders comments were something akin to "this is not over yet." With "De-Dollarization" efforts already broadly under discussion, ITAR-TASS reports that Gazprom had signed additional agreements for clients to switch from dollars to euros and renminbi, "nine of ten consumer had agreed to switch."

 

Via ITAR-TASS,

Gazprom Neft had signed additional agreements with consumers on a possible switch from dollars to euros for payments under contracts, the oil company's head Alexander Dyukov told a press conference.

 

"Additional agreements of Gazprom Neft on the possibility to switch contracts from dollars to euros are signed. With Belarus, payments in roubles are agreed on," he said.

 

Dyukov said nine of ten consumers had agreed to switch to euros.

 

ITAR-TASS reported earlier that Gazprom Neft considered the possibility to make payments in roubles under contracts. Some contracting parties agree to switch from dollars to euros and Yuans.

 

"The so-called Plan B is already partially worked out. The switch of dollar contracts to euros and Yuans is agreed on with some of our contracting parties. Under consideration is the possibility to switch contracts to roubles," Dyukov said at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum.

As we concluded previously,

And as we have explained repeatedly in the past, the further the west antagonizes Russia, and the more economic sanctions it lobs at it, the more Russia will be forced away from a USD-denominated trading system and into one which faces China and India.

 

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Sat, 06/07/2014 - 12:29 | 4832542 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Make mine Bitcoin. Last Price 655,

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 12:32 | 4832557 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

I wonder if it will survive the grand monetary reset.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 12:40 | 4832580 tmosley
tmosley's picture

It will survive and thrive.  Long BTC is long currency controls, and currency controls are part and parcel of currency collapse.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 12:42 | 4832584 remain calm
remain calm's picture

Putin to Obama. Fuck You Nigga

 

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:53 | 4832746 knukles
knukles's picture

What makes sense...

Putin takes Chinee and EU paper from 2 biggest clients, Chinee and EU
China and EU have less demand for dollahs
China say, Ho-ka
EU say whatever the fuck you ask us so we don't freeze in the dark.  Except the Frogs.  The Frogs have lots and lots of Nuke Generating Stations.  The Frogs say Oui and demand immediate boycott of WartHouse lunch menu of caviar, champagne and fioe gras.
Everybody else shrugs
Putin says Hah ha ha ha ha ha
Jack (You Don't Know Jack Shit) Lew asks Lloyd Blankfiend what to do.
Lloyd says you give us all your gold for liquidity.  After all, Ecuador just did and now their currency is sweeter than sucre.
Everything ess bon!  We has negative interest rates!  Bon!  Ettt all enz well, no?

Fuck me, I mean I'm being dragged away by a bunch of Yeti that shave their back and are told they're civilized....
No

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:56 | 4832749 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

I thought most of Gazprom's contracts tied the price of nat gas to the price of oil in some manner?

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 17:03 | 4833105 max2205
max2205's picture

So that would leave about 1 trillion in excess dollars sitting in the EU Asia doing nothing except earning minus .01%

 

I am thinking those find their way back to the US and flood the Treasures market with buy orders......a black swam to say the least....their are no treasuries to buy at tha size unless the Fed sells theirs. ...interesting

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 17:47 | 4833174 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

More like earning -3% according to the official inflation rates

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 19:24 | 4833309 sixsigma cygnus...
sixsigma cygnusatratus's picture

Is it wrong of me to observe that more and more, America is starting to resemble the 50s Soviet era non-religious amoral egalitarian utopian society that was once our perceived enemy?  And Russia is starting to resemble 50s era America?  WTF happened?...we are becoming the enemy we once feared and thought would destroy us, and they have become us. 

Even Svetlana has become quite attractive and stylish while Betty is a 350 lb, electric scooter-riding sea hag on 27 different medications.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 19:55 | 4833364 Rootin' for Putin
Rootin' for Putin's picture

No, i have been thinking the same thing recently.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 20:25 | 4833405 I MISS KUDLOW
I MISS KUDLOW's picture

now where does russia and china get the wood to print their paper on maple, oak, or poplar

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 23:39 | 4833679 ebear
ebear's picture

Siberia.  Some of the best timber in the world actually.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 00:25 | 4833721 Manthong
Manthong's picture

6 Sigma,

Answer to your question: you are not wrong and yes we are turning into our own worst enemy.

The muslim-in-chief hypocrite apostate gets his advice from Valerie Jarrett and worships little balls in a big field. The other guy seems to take his counsel here.

Watch the RT video.. a good investment of 26 minutes.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 09:19 | 4833992 GoldBricker
GoldBricker's picture

Amen. Was a Russian lit major in college, 40 years ago. I thought it was all forgotten, but it wasn't, not the language, nor the feeling. We got nothin' like that in the West.

Many thanks, bro.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 09:45 | 4834014 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

What?

Sure we do.

The 50% off sale at The Men's Warehouse.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 20:58 | 4833460 The man with po...
The man with pointy horns's picture

You become what you hate.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 09:10 | 4833984 plane jain
plane jain's picture

Ha...so lots of commentors here on ZH should become fat black Jewish bankers.  Bet Banzai could whip up a pic of that.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 08:39 | 4833970 Idaho potato head
Idaho potato head's picture

The printing presses are being fitted with liquid nitrogen cooling apparatus as we speak.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 22:04 | 4833560 TruthHunter
TruthHunter's picture

"Ecuador just did and now their currency is sweeter than sucre."

 

Were you being extremely ironic or ignorant?

Of course their currency is sweeter than Sucre. That currency went out of

existence in 2000 and has been replaced by the dollar. As they have been

running a trade surplus, it seems strange that giving up their gold would

improve their liquidity.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 09:51 | 4834026 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Why?

The dopes traded it for paper dollars.

And they'll never get it back.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 14:28 | 4832796 tbd108
tbd108's picture

Ordinarily I don't care much for the 'n' word, however in the case of 'bath house', a shill for the Chicago mob and a stooge for the banksters, seems more than appropriate. Black men everywhere weep when confused with this loser.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 18:56 | 4833282 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I wonder, do you "weep" for every "loser" who represents your racial demographic?

and isn't O "half white"?

distractions and artificial sides. . .  divide and rule.

The use of this technique is meant to empower the sovereign to control subjects, populations, or factions of different interests, who collectively might be able to oppose his rule. Machiavelli identifies a similar application to military strategy, advising in Book VI of The Art of War, that a Captain should endeavor with every art to divide the forces of the enemy, either by making him suspicious of his men in whom he trusted, or by giving him cause that he has to separate his forces, and, because of this, become weaker.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 20:02 | 4833340 tbd108
tbd108's picture

Fair questions however I believe minorities do have more to deal with when a member of their group has such a high profile (I'm half American Indian and half Irish myself). And yes, Zero's mother was a white woman but he clearly identifies with his black father (whom I strongly believe was Frank Marshall Davis who looks just like him and showed some actual concern for the boy growing up). I don't believe there is anything about his behavior, certainly not political behavior, that you would identify with the northern suburns of Chicago (where I and his mother's family came from). When he returned to the continental US he went straight to the southside of Chicago which is very black. Finally, virtually every black voter in America voted for him in both elections. The man is black. Note: I said "virtually every black voter in America" voted for him, the ones that perhaps are weeping are the few that understood what they were really dealing with (i.e. stooge and shill) and voted for someone else (hopefully not the loser Republican candidates).

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 06:40 | 4833915 Zwelgje
Zwelgje's picture

"Don't vote, you'll only encourage the bastards."

Anon.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 23:01 | 4833637 Carpenter1
Carpenter1's picture

Fuck paper.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 08:34 | 4833966 Idaho potato head
Idaho potato head's picture

"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon. The pigeon knocks over all the pieces, shits on the board
and then struts around like it won the game."
-Vladimir Putin -- (Accurately descriptive, but cannot be attributed to Putin)

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:21 | 4832667 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Petro-marking might be a more tangible way to realize profits from said increase in Government controls.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:51 | 4832742 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

 

 

90% Of Gazprom Clients Have "De-Dollarized", Will Transact In Euro & Renminbi ...

 

... and Gold, I suspect.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 19:20 | 4833312 Mitzibitzi
Mitzibitzi's picture

Not at this price. There isn't enough of it. Everyone is paying in worthless paper and promises that are worth less than nothing.... for now!

And stacking like a guy who has never heard of boating accidents.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 12:54 | 4834360 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

I'd also force them to use Rubles, and limit the amount of sales in Euros, since the Euro = USD2 -- now that the Fed and Brussels have a mainline link between them.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 20:38 | 4833426 babkjl
babkjl's picture

At Walmart today I saw a Western Union poster that said the following: we require you to say why you are sending money, what your work or school is, to name any third party you are transacting on behalf of... etc! What?!? Screw that. Bitcoin users unaffected.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 10:59 | 4834134 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

I'm sorry to tell you that it will survive, in a manner of speaking:  The Gov will issue its own version, and eliminate cash entirely.

Why do you think they are pushing the infrastructure for all kinds of devices and appliances to be "connected"?  Soon you will be too.  And there shall be no buying or selling, w/o the barcode and biometric chip.  Welcome to Prison Planet, per the vision and goals of the Overlords.  "Childhood's End" is at hand.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 12:50 | 4832581 remain calm
remain calm's picture

Putin to Obama "Check, I just took your queen, it's your move and all you got are pawns, bitch."

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:09 | 4832636 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

LOL! how many chess matches have you seen where the pawns refuse to move and then conspire to hang their own king?

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:12 | 4832643 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

I think it would be more along the lines "I took your queen, took the paper bag off and after nearly shitting my pants from the horror of it all, promptly air posted it back to the states.........you win that round"

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 14:29 | 4832803 Miles Ahead
Miles Ahead's picture

Another Ape comment.  I hope your previous one

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-07/90-gazprom-clients-have-de-doll...

... gets you banned asshole.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 12:31 | 4834317 syntaxterror
syntaxterror's picture

This isn't some pussified libtard site like sfgate.com. 

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 21:02 | 4833466 throughthelooki...
throughthelookingglass's picture

Obama, knocks over the pieces, shits .... struts ...

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 12:44 | 4832590 Skin666
Skin666's picture

Why wouldn't it? Bitcoin does not depend on banks or governments. It's a payment network within the interwebz.

When the dollar crashes and physical gold and silver has been exhausted, where will the panicking stampede go next?

 

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:34 | 4832686 SilverIsMoney
SilverIsMoney's picture

I like the idea BUT!

Bitcoiners still cannot explain to me why it should be 100X more valuable than the other 100 crypto currencies. I think of it like a bargraph... you've got 100 crypto currencies and 1 of them is absurdly higher than the rest - doesn't this mean the other cryptos should go higher as bitcoin falls thus evening out the bargraph? I've been asking this question for over a year now and no one has been able to explain to me why bitcoin holds so much more value over the rest. 

Does it not seem more likely that as bitcoin shoots to the moon that people would move to more undervalued crypto currencies thus keeping the value of bitcoin in check? 

 

My money is still on bitcoin being used as a way to keep people out of gold and silver (look at the inverse relationship - every time bitcoin shoots up PMs are going down - it's just as likely, imo, that TPTB are using it as a way to drive people who want out of the dollar into their new digital system while getting them to think they're actually protesting TPTB when they are in fact walking right into their trap)

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:37 | 4832701 Skin666
Skin666's picture

Look at this. This man explains better than anyone else IMO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2CsJ2HMA2I

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 17:02 | 4833097 balanced
balanced's picture

In simplest terms, Bitcoin has become the standard, like HTML. This is a very loose example, but all of the web browsers support HTML, and all "alternative" such as CSS, PHP, ASP, etc. still end up using (printing) HTML. The same is true for Bitcoin. All of the payment systems use Bitcoin, and all of the "alternative" crypto-currencies are priced in Bitcoin on the exchanges. It's the standard.

Note to all of you developers that want to point out that HTML is a Markup language, while PHP and ASP are scripting languages, and that CSS is neither - I know. As I said it's just a loose example hah.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 17:50 | 4833181 runningman18
runningman18's picture

Kind of like how the dollar became the global "standard"....

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 19:21 | 4833293 SilverIsMoney
SilverIsMoney's picture

I just do not think that's a good enough argument to justfy the absurd differences in value. Everything people say about bitcoin could be said about litecoin right? That link to the Andreas Antonopoulous video does not address my original concern. All these people keep talking about how great and decentralized it is and how it is a revolution in money - I do not deny ANY of that! But again, WHY should I buy BTC at $655 when I can get Litecoin at a fraction of the cost? And why should I get litecoin when I can get RonPaul, MaxKeiser, or KanyeWest Coin?! What is the real difference? Why buy a bunch of Bitcoins when I can get the SAME technology and the SAME revolution at a FRACTION of the cost?!

Then you've got Mr. Darkcoin taking it to an even further level below...because of course now you've got all these people taking sides on why their crypto is better which negates the idea Bitcoin is the best...

It just all seems like madness that will one day culminate in THEE Crypto Currency. The question becomes, is that bitcoin or not? Everyone investing in it could be investing in something that will be obsolete as a more secure, or valuable, crypto comes along...

Again, I like the idea, but there's no good explanation as to why the differences between these cryptos are so absurd besides "Well bitcoin was first" and that, imo, is a shit reason. I'll stick with my PMs and consider investing in the lower level cryptos that have yet to make their move.

 

I have it on good authority from one of my good friends who went all in at $10 and is currently running a giant mining operation that bitcoin will be going to 2k by the end of the year but I'm still not going to buy because all I see happening, when that happens, is all the bitcoiners will dump their coins into the undervalued cryptos and those thinking they're holding onto digital gold will infact end up being the bagholders as the weaker cryptos gain value relative to bitcoin.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 19:40 | 4833344 Mitzibitzi
Mitzibitzi's picture

You're possibly correct. It's called 'a free market of competing currencies'... we used to have those (or a whole lot more than now, anyway!) prior to 1913.

The crypto-coin, precious metal, voucher linked to a basket of commodoties, etc that offers the best incentive for people to want to use it will - in the long run - end up at the top of the pile, the others will hover lower, or vanish - but the surivors will still be used by anyone who wants/needs some facility that CheeseCoin, etc may provide that other transaction-vouchers don't.

In the long run, it doesn't actually matter. Buy LiteCoin, if the lower price per unit attracts you. Over the short term, it's value relative to the dollar, euro, pound, etc will go up and down, same as BitCoin is doing. When all of the above go to zero, however.... as long as there are people willing to trade their stuff for your crypto-coin, silver coin, gold coin, 2' length of copper pipe, etc, etc cos they can trade your payment token for somebody else's stuff that they need more than the stuff they traded with you for, then just about anything can be money.

You can have token-enabled barter when you have the internet!

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 20:49 | 4833448 Advoc8tr
Advoc8tr's picture

How is it any different to FIAT currencies ?  What makes the USD piece of paper better than any of the others available at a far lower price in gold or exchange rate terms?

Acceptance, ubiquity, capitalisation, perception, depth of support, age, trust etc ...

Same reason Gold outshines silver, platinum, palladium etc

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 22:00 | 4833555 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

USD, Euro or Renminbi ...

~//~

Hillary Clinton at Benghazi Hearing: 'What Difference, Does It Make?'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka0_nz53CcM (1:07)

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 05:28 | 4833879 aphlaque_duck
aphlaque_duck's picture

Well for one thing, it's not "FIAT" in any sense of the word. Fiat is not an acronym, it's a word meaning an order or decree. I.e. the law says you must recognize these notes as currency.

Bitcoin is electronic commodity money, not fiat currency. Its value comes only from voluntary market supply and demand.

 

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 21:06 | 4835550 conscious being
conscious being's picture

Commodity money? Bitcoin?  I think you're misinformed.

Bitcoin is a way to move notational value around with some opaqueness.

It's not a store of value.  To the poster above who said bitcoin enjoys its premium because "its the HTML" of crypto currencies.  What happens to your first mover advantage when XML of ccs shows up??

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 10:31 | 4834087 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

...WHY should I buy BTC at $655 when I can get Litecoin at a fraction of the cost?

As long as anything is priced in dollars, there are problems.  Same with the PMs.  The dollar has to break for anything to find a final clearing price.  Until then, all trades are simple casino bets.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 23:43 | 4833685 NickVegas
NickVegas's picture

In simpler terms, they have limited the float and large pools of fiat looking for new sheep are supporting the price until they hope everyone uses their shitcoin, and then we will find out the NSA has cracked it, just like they did to every preceding crypto algo, and all the spooks will have a field day feeding on all the free money. I look at this way, if it was a threat, it would have been outlawed already.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 00:35 | 4833737 Seek_Truth
Seek_Truth's picture

NickVegas:

Your answer is correct. You win second prize.

The first prize winner is "FAITH IN GOD."

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 20:56 | 4833456 F0ster
F0ster's picture

The answer is simple. It's a MoMo play on the early mover advantage. All Crypto currencies are a good idea so long as you have people willing to exchange something tangible for them on either side if the transaction.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 10:08 | 4834059 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

True.

I got boxes full of used guitar strings filled with finger cheese that I'm trying to trade.

I'll admit it's slow going building an alternative trade medium.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 22:45 | 4833617 nailgunnin4you
nailgunnin4you's picture

you've got 100 crypto currencies and 1 of them is absurdly higher than the rest - doesn't this mean the other cryptos should go higher as bitcoin falls thus evening out the bargraph?

 

This query makey no sense, missing some logic and reasoning. Why are we assuming cryptocurrency values will or should eventually equate?

 

I've been asking this question for over a year now and no one has been able to explain to me why bitcoin holds so much more value over the rest. 

 

Just like fiat or any currency really, the more it is used the more valuable it is. 

 

My money is still on bitcoin being used as a way to keep people out of gold and silver (look at the inverse relationship - every time bitcoin shoots up PMs are going down - it's just as likely, imo, that TPTB are using it as a way to drive people who want out of the dollar into their new digital system

 

I doubt bitcoin adoption is enough to effect PM's prices or that TPTB's digital currency alternative would be completely decentralised, innovative or beneficial to the masses.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 23:46 | 4833682 SilverIsMoney
SilverIsMoney's picture

Here's how I know you guys are wrong because, AT THE END OF THE DAY, you guys always retract back to the same lame ass argument my mining friend makes "well the USD has value so why shouldn't bitcoin."

 

This is horrible rational! Neither of them should have this much value because neither has any reason to be THIS valuable. I understand crypto technology has SOME value but so does paper it doesn't mean either should be used as an international medium of exchange  - especially as cryptos are obviously suspectible to massive hacking and are still in their infancy stage - it's relative value is based on the idea my algo is better than the other guys algo. It's going to take a lot of time for this new technology to sort itself out and all of the bitcoiners are convinced they've found THEE crypto currency when it could end up being obsolete in 5-10 years - just like the dollar.

 

Still, no one out there can explain why it's a good idea to speculate in by far the most valuable crypto currency when NO ONE can explain why it's value is so much greater than that of litecoin or darkcoin. Why buy 1 bitcoin when I can get 66 litecoin for the same price? What's the difference?

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 21:12 | 4835576 conscious being
conscious being's picture

The USD has death dealing guns, bombs and nuclear devices encouraging use of same.  How many nuclear devices does BTC have standing behind it?

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 06:17 | 4833900 BoingBoing
BoingBoing's picture

It's because bitcoin was the first, and currently has the most hashing power dedicated to it.

If all those miners left tomorrow, then bitcoin would be replaced by another currency.

But...we're slowly seeing real-world transactions with bitcoin. As those grow in volume, so it becomes even harder for an alternative coin to take over, even if mining power were switched over.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 09:34 | 4834005 sleigher
sleigher's picture

There are no crypto currencies that have made it to the end of their creation cycle.  All of them are still producing coins as far as I know.  I don't think anyone is really going to see or know the true value of a crypto coin until the cycle is completely run.  Meaning all the coins have been mined.  It is a race right now to get the coins.  I think that the value of a crypto coin will be dramatically affected at the end of the cycle one way or the other.  Either really high or really low.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 15:41 | 4834721 shouldvekilledthem
shouldvekilledthem's picture

It's a lot more than mining (race for the coins). It's a functional payment system without the need for a leeching 3rd party.

 

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 14:11 | 4834543 jonytk
jonytk's picture

hello, bitcoin difficulty! you need specialiced asic machines to mine btc or any SHA-256 coin, now, this raised the difficulty so there's just barely return on investment, until some miners realice, it's actually cheaper to buy than to mine, then the price spikes again and more people start to mine, creating a loop of increasing higher difficulty and increasing higher prices.
Now look what happen to other currencies, if they use the same algorith than bitcoin they can be attacked, this is what happened to the first ones, so they changed to another algorithm (or used merged-mining like nmc!), now, with this algorithm, called scrypt, it's easy to mine with just computers, but , as there is so many coins, litecoin is the strongest because it was the first, and then from time to time the small coins got attacked! huge miners (mostly bad actors than own hundred of zombie computers infected by malware called bot-nets) will atack the small coins and kill them, that's WHY nobody buys this crap coins , only the same miners than got them for free, they rebuy cheaper....

i hope u understand everything now... getbitcoins!

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:34 | 4832693 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

The problem with bitcoin is a problem with the block chain as it is currently implemented is the issue of fungibility.

http://wiki.darkcoin.eu/wiki/FAQ#I_read_that_Darkcoin_is_more_fungible_t...

A central aspect of using currencies is that the unit of the currency has the same properties as another unit of the currency. For example 1 gram of gold is equal with 1 gram of gold. A one euro coin is equal to another one euro coin. In a similar sense, one darkcoin is equal to any other darkcoin.

When the history of each coin is being tracked, from its generation (through mining) up to its last spending, as is the case with the Bitcoin blockchain, certain coins can be "flagged". For example, if one knows that an exchange was hacked and that its BTCs were stolen and that these same BTCs were then spent to acquire a merchandise, it can be seen that that the BTCs spent for the merchandise are a byproduct of crime. So, in this sense, these BTCs are not equivalent with other BTCs because they carry with them a negative reputation or legal implications*. This lack of equality originates from the refusal of some party to accept BTCs that have a certain "history" behind them. Lack of fungibility in a currency is strongly problematic.

If there is a constant "mixing" of coins in the blockchain, as is happening with DarkSend, all Darkcoins remain fungible (=equal to one another) and its use as a currency is not disrupted by the public ledger / blockchain.

[*] Bitstamp has required users to provide evidence of where they got their Bitcoins before cashing them out.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/26apno/bitstamp_will_not_process_withdrawal_unless_you/

...

That is one of the main issues why bitcoin won't be the long term winner as of now unless they keep up with the technology arms race going on concerning crypto-currencies in general.

http://www.wired.com/2014/05/bitcoin-anonymous-projects/

 

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 14:06 | 4832765 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Oh.................by that time they should be passing around plenty of lead.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 20:05 | 4833379 koan
koan's picture

Bullets.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 22:05 | 4833564 surf0766
surf0766's picture

They will go to lead when all else is gone.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 04:56 | 4833869 the tower
the tower's picture

Very true. Value (whatever anything is worth) is determined by demand, NOT scarcity. In case of investment/insurance it's all about TRUST.

When currencies start to collapse and new currencies are introduced people will see that the only option left are crypto-currencies as it will be the only option left to TRUST, which will automatically determine the value.

Now, buyer beware. There will be crypto-currencies worth your trust when the time comes. Bitcoin is NOT one of them. Bitcoin is a test for currency 2.0.

Greetings from Davos

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 09:49 | 4834022 sleigher
sleigher's picture

"Very true. Value (whatever anything is worth) is determined by demand, NOT scarcity."

 

That's right.  There is only 1 of my ex-wife, and she is worthless.  :p

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 15:44 | 4834725 shouldvekilledthem
shouldvekilledthem's picture

Bitcoin has been working since 2009. It's an evolving project and far from exploiting it's full potential. It is the only crypto currency with significant network effect and utility.

It will outlive every one of us. 

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 15:56 | 4834738 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

$126,000,000 worth?

Take a look: http://goo.gl/UCS7nS

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 12:55 | 4832609 Skin666
Skin666's picture

@q99x2 check this guy out. Well worth 20 minutes of your time... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2CsJ2HMA2I

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:34 | 4832678 Newager23
Newager23's picture

I don't know about you, but my thought is that the dollar as the global reserve currency is in a transition phase. And that at some point this is going pick up steam and cause irreparable damage to the US economy.

This post is very significant. Gasprom is huge, but what is even larger are Russia's oil exports. How close is Russia to transitioning away from dollars for selling their oil? I would say it could begin this year, or may have already started.

I don't know all of the fallout from the US losing its currency dominance. But it can't be good for the US economy. We have a huge burden with our national debt. The interest alone is massive, plus we have to continually roll-over the debt. At some point this is going to have ramifications.

The S&P chart looks like a healthy economy, but clearly it is not.

The gold chart looks like investors are not concerned.

Something doesn't add up. Anyone who isn't nervous or have trepidation about what is coming is paying attention to the wrong information. At least that's my take.

We will look back and wonder why gold at $1250 and silver at $19.50 were considered bad investments by so many. And the S&P at 1900 and DOW at 16800, were considered good investments. I don't know about you, but I would prefer the former over the latter by a very significant margin. I find it amazing that so many investors hate gold and silver and love S&P stocks.

www.goldsilverdata.com

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 17:56 | 4833186 timmeh
timmeh's picture

"The S&P chart looks like a healthy economy"

oh, really? 

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 21:28 | 4833510 NaN
NaN's picture

What really matters is when energy exporters refuse payment in US$ for delivery to the US.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 22:06 | 4833565 surf0766
surf0766's picture

That is a very valid point.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 22:40 | 4833612 Carpenter1
Carpenter1's picture

"And as we have explained repeatedly in the past, the further the west antagonizes Russia"

 

This has nothing to do with antagonizing Russia. All theatre for the sheep. The globalists had this planned out decades ago. First understand there are no nations anymore, except for the masses of consumers whose purpose is to keep the oligarchs in power.

 

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 00:55 | 4833756 Seek_Truth
Seek_Truth's picture

"This has nothing to do with antagonizing Russia. "

Actually, it does. All these beasts are lusting for power, but all are in disagreement as to whom will arise "victorious."

It shall be a nation that was once a world power that shall seize the position once again, albeit briefly. - Revelation 17:11

http://biblehub.com/niv/revelation/17.htm

Connect the dots.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 21:25 | 4835625 conscious being
conscious being's picture

"theatre for the sheep"

Look into the rise of Putin and the fall, exile and death of Berisovsky.

If the guys at the top are getting killed, I'm afraid we have to conclude that real conflict is underway.

 

 

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 04:16 | 4833848 the tower
the tower's picture

What will happen is that sooner or later most big currencies will be replaced with currency 2.0. 

Gold has been sold many times over, so the common thought is that once the secret is out the price will skyrocket.

Well don't get your hopes up. Gold will not return your savings as most gold is in the hands of a small number of banks and some very rich individuals. If you wondered where all that rehypothecated gold is... now you know.

Gold will be priced in currency 2.0 which will give them a huge advantage in pricing the "precious" metal, hence the manipulation will continue. If anything, it will alllow them to buy your gold for even less than you could ever imagine. And trust me, you will want to sell it as it will be all you have left and you will need liquidity.

Gold is just an insurance for THEM in case all goes wrong. As a small holder it will not be of any value, you would have been better of with buying a second property in a safe place.

Greetings from Davos

 

 

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 06:20 | 4833903 BoingBoing
BoingBoing's picture

If you hold enough gold to purchase a property (US$300,000?), you're not a small holder.

 

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 10:49 | 4834109 ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

A small, real shift in sentiment, is all that it is going to take.

And that is already underway.

But they will deny it is happening, all the way to Zero.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 15:22 | 4832917 ZH Snob
ZH Snob's picture

and the ignorant still choose to mock Jim Willie.  He predicted this would happen and only increase with time.  even if the world continues to flounder with fiat currencies like the Euro, it is sundown for the USD.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 08:48 | 4833972 scrappy
scrappy's picture

Bitcoin is FACTA II.

Don't bite the bit, it will lead to shit, virtual and real slavery.

"Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding." This will bring us to consider, an infliction to be escaped—"Whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle." If you do not wish to be bitted and bridled, be readily obedient to the direction of your Lord. We will come to a close by reflecting that there is a freedom to be attained. You may be free from bit and bridle, and guided by the eye of God; you may find your way to heaven without the need of these rough chastisements which compel obedience.

 

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 12:30 | 4832545 nopalito
nopalito's picture

Which 1 of 10 want to keep the dollar?

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 12:31 | 4832552 CPL
CPL's picture

The one guy they've convinced to hold the bag.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 20:57 | 4833458 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

belgium?

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 21:52 | 4833515 CPL
CPL's picture

Canada.  Remember this?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-04/cable-carnage-following-carneys...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-01/goldman-takeover-complete-glimp...

People run to safety, never into the fire.  Well unless they are firefighting hero's or complete dumbasses.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 12:32 | 4832558 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Probably the Ukraine.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 12:46 | 4832592 alexcojones
alexcojones's picture

My wallet has become de-dollarized. Happens waaaaay to often.

I hardly get out of the Dollar Store without de-dollarization happening.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 23:04 | 4833643 Milton Waddams
Milton Waddams's picture

9 out of 10 choose Coldgate over Crest, as well. In fact, everybodys doing it...

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 04:38 | 4833851 inky
inky's picture

Both crammed full of healthy Fluoride.

um..for your own good..and apparently to keep your teeth clean.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 12:30 | 4832546 _ConanTheLibert...
_ConanTheLibertarian_'s picture

I spot an exponential downfall of the US dollar. Thing may go quickly now.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 12:33 | 4832564 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

Belgium's going to need more countries to help it buy Treasurys.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 12:48 | 4832597 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Nah, they can get all of the dollars they want for Treasuries under the table from you know who.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 10:31 | 4834089 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

True,

There are millions of unborn Belgians who have yet to buy UST's

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 12:34 | 4832566 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Not exponentially, the paper O&G markets dwarf the physical. Until the banksters get on board and more non-USD paper products are developed and can successfully divert substantial fiat stock and flow, there can be no "collapse".

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:12 | 4832644 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Good luck with that.

Somebody is following a well coordinated plan to which you are not privy.

How much of that paper is phantom wealth that needs to disappear in a reset ?

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:40 | 4832698 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

At over $5T a day in turnover, most of the paper is phantom wealth. And regardless of the exact percentage that should disappear, there aren't enough assets to go around for the wealth that has to endure.

But USD is one side of the transaction in over 85% of that cross border flow, and no one else has big enough stock to take that over (absent a worldwide banking holiday/crisis, which is a different proposition than an exponential market driven collapse of USD purchasing power).

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 21:31 | 4835639 conscious being
conscious being's picture

How much of that paper is phantom wealth that needs to disappear in a reset ?

Let me guess.  The part that belongs to the sheeple?

 

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 14:16 | 4832769 deKevelioc
deKevelioc's picture

This is too convenient for my sensibilities.  

Ben Davies of Hinde Capital was told by George Papandreao of the plan to move to the SDR.  Papandreao may not care any more, and doesn't mind tipping off a fund manager to the seemingly obvious solution.  These clownsuits already know that the SDR is scheduled, so it doesn't matter much to the US of this renminbi/euro news, I suppose.

The US doesn't have much to lose by stirring things up, so the pot will be stirred up in a big way, now.  Everyone in the know is already positioned and looting.  Talk about the crime of the millenia.  This will be bigger than anyone can imagine, when the US dollar must be devalued to accomodate the SDR.  But I think the plan is to devalue the US dollar through the 'market' and not in one big swoop with an annoucement.  In fact, the BIS is already adjudicating with SDRs to minimize a disruption, if that is even possible.  But, then again, the 'Black Swan' looms, too.

 

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 14:44 | 4832835 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

The SDR and SDRM have been in the pipeline for over a decade now.

IMO Russia and China were onboard if it could have been reality back in

2010.The debt situation in Europe and the US now, make it unlikely they want to be joined at

the hip in some 'snake' arrangement with the euro and USD.

Its hard to tell right now who is doublecrossing who.Seems everybody is doing it.

But what else do you expect with a group of psycopaths, surely not honesty and trust.

Dog eat dog is their only common  mantra.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 12:30 | 4832549 CPL
CPL's picture

Trade it for the food it produces.  Straight trade on the exchange of 10 calories of oil energy per 1 calorie of food product.

Because that's what it costs.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 12:25 | 4834302 plane jain
plane jain's picture

1 gallon of gasoline = 31,500 food calories

Here that is running $4, divide by 10 so 3,150 calories of food for $4.  

That works out to around 2 pounds of pinto beans, or rice...so far so good.

For meat doesn't work so well.  Because that would be 6 pounds of chicken breast, or 3.5 pounds of steak. Or vegetables and fruits as that would be over 20 pounds of broccoli, or 13 pounds of apples.

 


Sat, 06/07/2014 - 12:36 | 4832570 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Let's not get carried away. This is just a poke in the eye for the USA.

The Euro and the Renminbi are just as shitty. Anything short of real goods or gold is just political posturing.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 12:55 | 4832606 newworldorder
newworldorder's picture

True comment. The $$ and the FED are proping up the Euro at our discount window.Swaps, gold leases and US treasuries for all.

The Euro thru Draghi is propping up all the EU sovereigns in the EU.

The Russians know this - its all political theater and most of the EU and American sheeple will swallow it.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:09 | 4832632 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Thing is, it still represents a change in the status quo. Forbes has their Sales at $165B, 90% of which is $149.5B.

Even though I agree wholly with the political theater aspect, it still doesn't change the fact that this represents serious activation energy at the margins of the petrodollar system. What it tells us is that things will only continue to further move in that direction over time as incentives change.

Yes, all of those dollars will flow to the engines of global financialization, but I doubt it'll be the same ole, same ole that we've witnessed thus far.

As always, time will tell. I only know for sure that the richest will continue to sop up all of this excess liquidity.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 14:36 | 4832819 Miles Ahead
Miles Ahead's picture

Bullshit Peter Pan.  A move away from the Dollar to something equally shitty will still hurt the Dollar.  Financial transactions are that, no matter the posturing - and either you're giving the U.S. a cut of your transaction or you ain't end of story. 

When the world's largest energy exporter starts not using the Dollar, watch out below.  It's that last snowflake at the top of the mountain that could start the avalanche.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 23:02 | 4833641 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Hey brother, if you think that a poke in the eye is bullshit, then come over to my place.

The point I was making is that using one fiat currency instead of another is not a really viable solution for the long run.

But I do take your point as well.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 10:51 | 4834116 ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

But while all fiat currencies are the same in the long run, in the short run, individual currencies can be destroyed.

 

So in, the short run, the world will move to the lesser of the two evils, and continue to do so until the dollar is a footnote in world history.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 21:41 | 4835677 conscious being
conscious being's picture

Hey PP - JW said a while ago that the BOC needs to increase the Yuan float and depreciate relative to POG as a step on the way to regional/brics/global reserve currency.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 17:01 | 4833100 IndianaJohn
IndianaJohn's picture

Peter Pan's homerun; "Anything short of real goods or gold is just political posturing."

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 12:37 | 4832573 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Is it time to yell "avalanche" yet?!

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:06 | 4832612 CPL
CPL's picture

The avalanche is in the rear view, the mountain is covered in wendigo's and the board is waxed...no problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD3VsesSBsw

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 14:36 | 4832816 g'kar
g'kar's picture

Off topic: CPL, as you are a netc.com follower, I just signed up on netc.com and my detection station is now on their network map.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 21:44 | 4833532 CPL
CPL's picture

Awesome!  Thanks man.

The more of these we've got running, then everyone can start figuring out where the hell all this crap is coming from and maybe we figure out how to dodge it a bit better than right now.  In IT we use something called a Network Management Systems (BMC Patrol, HP Openview, Tivoli, Trinity), if we get enough nodes running we can McGuyver something together to do prediction models and better analytics.  (i.e. get enough of these running and get the size of the problem mapped to the reality presented).

Your node helps that effort, thanks man.  Lots of people are working on this all over the place and any extra data we can get is awesome and super appreciated.

<LuCkY!>

Mon, 06/09/2014 - 19:31 | 4838944 g'kar
g&#039;kar's picture

The effort by you folks is awesome. I'll be continuing to contribute to the network as long as I can.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 12:38 | 4832576 sethstorm
sethstorm's picture

While 10 percent uses a civilized currency, the USD, and leaves US-bashing out of the transaction.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 06:14 | 4833899 CuttingEdge
CuttingEdge's picture

Surely retribution is more apt than bashing?

And what's so civilized about the country with the highest (by a country mile) incarceration rate per capita? Or a homicide rate on a par only with 3rd world banana republics (mostly Africa - maybe Obummer wants the US to feel more like "home"). Or maybe the 80-odd coups/wars, successful or otherwise) that country has instigated in the past 60 years?

Sorry. A civilised nation is not, by any stretch of the imagination, something the US can be accused of being. 

I digress.

Good guest piece at PCR on the precipice facing the Rothschild/Rockefeller axis (and the West as we know it) as China, India and Russia (amonst others) look to strengthen their trade ties:

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/06/07/anglo-american-dominance-comi...

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 12:41 | 4832587 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

Porochenko wants genocide but the Donbas army is kicking ass.

I'm sure it won't be long until NATO lends a hand to banderas.

 

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 12:59 | 4832614 Manthong
Manthong's picture

I'm kind of surprised that a number of folks including the new chocolate oaf-in-chief there have not been been disappeared.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 12:56 | 4832611 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Payback is a bitch.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 12:59 | 4832615 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

I think we may be the last to realize the FAITH is gone ???

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:10 | 4832639 Incubus
Incubus's picture

 

 

IN GOD WE TRUST

 

WE MUST KEEP THE FAITH

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:16 | 4832654 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

IN GOD WE TRUST.......perhaps, but sure as hell not the paper his name is inked on anymore.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:15 | 4832650 beefman
beefman's picture

i find it very interesting that the posters here tend to feel they are intelligent, wise and hip to the financial schemes of our day YET, there are so many comments directed towards the Presidents race/creed/color; which leads me to believe you guys are nothing but a bunch of computer  cowards who have fallen for the biggest misdirection in history Divide THEN Conquer.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:19 | 4832662 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

I dare say if you were to take a poll of those that post here they would give two shits less if Jabba the Hut was president if he was a trustworthy and fair minded individual who gave a shit about this country. Most of us could give a flying fuck less about his race, creed or color. What we do care about is the fact he is crooked and complicit in this whole damn charade.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:36 | 4832696 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

The same people who post the racist BS are the ones defaming this site because of the racist BS. They are nothing but a bunch of trolls and shills and they are one in the same poster with different names.

Thats my theory anyway...

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 16:35 | 4833045 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Agreed.  They 'shit the bed' and then denigrate the bed for being soiled with their shit.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 14:59 | 4832875 beefman
beefman's picture

so chocalate denotes trustworthiness? Grow and stop being a coward by hiding your racism behind politics

 

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 15:00 | 4832876 beefman
beefman's picture

so chocalate denotes trustworthiness? Grow and stop being a coward by hiding your racism behind politics

 

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 18:08 | 4833206 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

You replying to me or Charlie Rangel? I am not racist, moron, and not sure where you picked up on that. 

BTW way it's chocolate.....if your going to play in the sandbox then at the very least please take the time spell correctly. 

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 12:27 | 4834305 beefman
beefman's picture

Please reasd remain calm's comments. Then retake your poll.

 

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 15:47 | 4832961 crunchyfrog
crunchyfrog's picture

I would like to believe that, but the hate spewed here includes way too much about his putative creed and the fact that his wife is way buffer than most of the basment dwellers here.

Also, while the 'inelegible to be president' meme may be valid, he is not an actual illegal alien unless you claim his mother is not his mother, which no on actually seems to do. No matter who the father, or where he was born, any kid of hers is a US citizen and entitled to live and vote here. Anyone claiming otherwise forfeits all claim to being taken seriously.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 07:47 | 4833932 Absinthe Minded
Absinthe Minded's picture

I may not be a Columbia grad but I know a piece of shit when I see it, the stinky kind, not the brown kind. I have no beef with his kids or his wife, although freedom to choose to eat a Reeses peanut butter cup is mine, I don't want anybody saying what I should or shouldn't eat. The problem with kids today is their government sanctioned drone training, er I mean video games. You want skinnier kids, make video games like Super Mario bros. (no Italian disrespect intended) again and you will get at least half the kids wanting to do something fun outside again. Maybe stop subsidizing the corn industry and they won't put so much high fructose corn syrup in everything, you want to talk about fattening. But I digress, the reason I do not like Obama is;
Fast and Furious
Fed compliance
Benghazi
His putting his nose in high profile cases like Trayvon Martin.
NSA compliance
Terrible foreign policy
NDA
Czar appointments
Bergdahl travesty
Obamacare
Blatant metals, LIBOR, S&P, VIX manipulation

You look at what has happened under his watch and you wonder how the fuck nobody sees it. How can you look at all that shit and just say we'll be alright, he knows what he's doing. We are fucked as a nation.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 09:41 | 4834012 zerocash
zerocash's picture

True he may be a US citizen but only natural born citizens may become president. Meaning US citizens born on American soil. So the country of his birth does matter.

 

 

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 16:54 | 4833086 IndianaJohn
IndianaJohn's picture

Moshe, is that you? And you ain't no beefman. But you might be a goat.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:37 | 4832685 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

While I live here, after seeing how our government is so corrupt, all I can say is FUCK US!  We're one of the worst actors on the international stage.  We've lost our compass and core beliefs.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:31 | 4832687 KnuckleDragger-X
KnuckleDragger-X's picture

It's all going to come down to whose currency collapses first. The Fed is better at manipulation so I don't see the dollar imploding first but I'm willing to bet that when it does it will be the most spectacular.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:44 | 4832722 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

As bad as the FED is I still say China is going to be the trigger point that causes everything to implode because without the ant colony to produce everything when the eventual credit implosion hits everyone is going to get sucked into that sinkhole and the Chinese won't part with their gold to deal with it just like they wouldn't part with their silver after hoovering it all up for tea. Until then the Chinese could issue toilet paper with doody stains on it and the world would accept it part and parcel with no questions asked.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:42 | 4832719 SilverIsMoney
SilverIsMoney's picture

"We're gonna need a bigger Belgium" - Sheriff Brody

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 14:35 | 4832818 yogibear
yogibear's picture

The Federal Reserve has many places it can buy US treasury debt that's dumped.

If the Russiand reveal the Federal Reserve's paper trail they can help discredit it in the world markets.

The KGB should be able to trace Federal Reserve transactions. The have some good hackers. Then transmit the paper trails outside the US.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 18:47 | 4833262 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

KGB? 

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:44 | 4832721 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

I wonder what currency Russia will ask Ukraine to settle it's gas bills in?  As of now, Ukraine has only a small amount of time to begin advance payments and settle on a new price. Ukraine demands the old discount prices Russia offered before the coup took place. Demand is a strong word, but Ukraine has leverage. The attacks on the Eastern Provinces by tanks, infantry and air forces is going ahead. It is rumored that the new Ukraine president is demanding the cheap gas prices and using it's military assault on the east as leverage. In this way he can threaten to up the assault tactics to full scale war on the cities of the east, OR, he could get a cheap gas deal form Russia and then negotiate on the conflict's possible resolution. It amounts to, "you give us cheap gas, or else". That "or else" will up the body count. Putin for his part is not likely to accept the pact of cheap gas contracts for a reduction in military attacks. This deal would obligate the Russian tax payer, via gas subsidies, to fund the Ukraine's transition costs into the EU and NATO.

Now Putin would be a fool to be taken advantage of in that manner. He will likely bet on the fighting ability of the people of the East, and the economic collapse of Kiev, rather than fund the Kiev government's rule via cheap gas.

I wonder if anyone else can see this as what it is. Black Mail.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 18:44 | 4833234 timmeh
timmeh's picture

Ukraine is just a bitch. There's only one question i see here: whose bitch? 
The so called Ukrainian "government" and citizenry, means close to nothing for both sides. Be sure of that. 

 

I was born there, trust me.

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 01:11 | 4833775 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

I doubt Russia will be held over a barrel, black mailed, over the price of energy. 

Donbas Army is taking it to the Kiev nazis.

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2014/06/june-7th-combat-sitrep-by-juan....

 

Stack On

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:46 | 4832724 Joe A
Joe A's picture

Putin ain't no Khadaffi who tried to trade oil in something other than Dollar. He will be harder to crack. Perhaps there are foreces that want to lure him in a war in Ukraine but he is not taking the bait.

What would happen if European countries start buying gas with Euro? That would make sense from a European perspective.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 13:54 | 4832747 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Indeed Joe. That is just what the Ukraine crisis is all about now. Washington is desperate to draw Russia into sending military forces into East Ukraine. This would allow America to declare a new cold war, drop an iron curtian over the borders and seperate Russia and the EU from their growing ties in trade and culture, this growing unity of interests between the EU and Russia is a source of real worry to Washington. America with the entire EU under it's rule make the US a global world empire. An EU with close cultural and economic ties to Russia make the US much less of the hyper power it now is. Germany in particular has a natural need for close ties to Russia. Russia is a vast market for Germany's industry, Russia/EU trade is ten times US/Russia trade, and Russia is a source of unlimited resources to fuel Germany for centuries to come.

I made this point before but it needs repeating. Ukraine crisis is all about a US attempt to end the growing links between Russia and EU. 1/2 a trillion a year in mutual trade, vast sums of Russian money pouring into EU banks and property, and larger cultural links between peoples. Russians travel all across Europe and spend billions on vactions, Spain has areas fueled with Russian tourism Euros. London property is fueled with Russian Euros. The point is, unless the USA can create a crisis to stop this mutal integration, then Russia and the EU will have more mutal interests than the USA and EU do.

This Ukraine war is a last ditch effort to use NATO to enforce US hegemony over all Europe to the gates of Moscow. That is why I say that the crisis is a special case, it is an end game move, even nuclear war is not out of the question if Washington overplays it's hand here.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 14:25 | 4832793 supermaxedout
supermaxedout's picture

At the beach hotesl in Turkey the Russian tourists are also dominating the scene. Lots of Germans are there too but I think the Russains tourists are already the majority. Greece is also a favourite place of the Russians for holidays.

What you write about this situation in Europe is all true. It was the same in Southern Europe. Italy and Libia would have been a match made in heaven. Gaddafi and Berlusconi were the driving forces to revive the economic ties cut off since the UK is dominating the Mediterrean Sea. Gaddafi was investing a lot in Italy and Italy had a cheap and reliebale source of oil and gas. Plus the cooperation between Gadaffi and Berlusconi stopped the illegal immigartion from Africa to Italy. Gadaffi gave even permission for Italian navy boats to patrol in Lybian waters.

That was the main reson to start the war in Libia, For the UK and US was the control of the Mediterrean at stake in case the cooperation between Italy and Libia would have continued. Italian banks and capital fomr Gadaffi were starting to play also a major role in the Egyptian banking sector.

This was all destroyed to hold Italy and Euroland down. Europe is an American colony at present thats the truth. US does whatever they want. When the US does loose its iron grip over Italy and Germany it would mean a loss of power and influence by minimum 50%.  by by superpower status

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 14:35 | 4832817 Joe A
Joe A's picture

Ghadaffi's dead and Berlusconi was replaced by a GS man and is doing community service now. They either kill you or they humiliate you (although I don't take pity on Berlusconi).

Turning point might be if Cameron hold on to his word of leaving the EU if this Juncker guy gets appointed head of the EC.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 14:28 | 4832798 Joe A
Joe A's picture

Well Jack, the words "fuck the EU" were meant. This is a very plausible scenario. But the EU foolishly anounced stronger sanctions against Russia (or they pretend to be foolish). Nobody in Europe wants a war with Russia and nobody in Europe wants a cold winter or the industrial sector on its knees. The German industry already made it clear that they are against sanctions. And the German industry can break Merkel.

Sat, 06/07/2014 - 14:56 | 4832867 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Europe better watch its six.

If its a choice between destroying europe or the USD, its no contest.The US would

nuke europe.Even my wife said that, when I was explaing the current situation.

 

 

 

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