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Carl's Jr CEO Explains Why Nobody Is Hiring Young People

Tyler Durden's picture


Authored by Andrew Pudzer, CEO of CKE Restaurants which includes Carl's Jr, and originally posted at The Wall Street Journal

In President Obama's speeches this year, a steady theme has been creating jobs and economic opportunity for Americans. In his State of the Union address in January he said that "what I believe unites the people of this nation . . . is the simple, profound belief in opportunity for all—the notion that if you work hard and take responsibility, you can get ahead." And in his weekly address on Saturday, he repeated his strong appeal to young people: "As long as I hold this office, I'll keep fighting to give more young people the chance to earn their own piece of the American Dream."

Yet during the more than five years Mr. Obama has been in office, young people have been especially hard-hit by the slow and virtually jobless recovery. Given the destructive effect this has on individual initiative and the prospects of a productive and rewarding working life, the continuing struggle of young Americans to find jobs, start building families and contribute to society is no longer simply a matter of politics or policy. On a deeply human level, it's profoundly sad.

Consider these grim employment numbers:

• In February the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) recorded the lowest percentage of 16- to 19-year-olds working or actively looking for work (32.9%) since the bureau started tracking the data in 1948. The BLS recorded the second-lowest labor-participation rate for this group in April (33.2%) and the third-lowest in January (33.3%). May's rate was the sixth lowest (33.8%).


• Over the past two years, the BLS has recorded some of the worst labor participation rates for 20- to 24-year-olds since 1973, when the Vietnam War was beginning to wind down. In August 2012, the 69.7% rate was the lowest since '73. The second-lowest (70%) came in March last year. This year, the third-lowest rate came in April (70.2%). May's rate was a still-miserable 71%.


• Looking at the seasonally unadjusted data—which is what the BLS makes publicly available—for 25- to 29-year-olds, the April 2014 labor-participation rate was the lowest the BLS has recorded since it started tracking the data in 1982 (79.8%). May's rate was the second-lowest (79.9%). January, February and March tied with the fourth-lowest (80.3%).

These disturbing numbers raise a simple question: Where are the entry-level jobs?

Five years of 2% average yearly GDP growth simply doesn't produce enough jobs to absorb the natural increase in the labor force, and over the past eight quarters GDP growth has averaged only 1.7%. Between May 2008 and May 2014, BLS data show that the employable population increased by 14,217,000 while the number of people employed actually decreased by 94,000 and the number of people unemployed increased by 1,404,000. It remains a bad time for young people to be looking for jobs.

Nonetheless, various states and municipalities have increased their minimum wage, thereby increasing the cost of employing inexperienced workers. Minimum-wage jobs have always been a gateway to better opportunities. In making hiring decisions, businesses must weigh the quality and value of work that entry-level employees produce against the cost of employing them. For many businesses in high-minimum-wage states or municipalities—Seattle leads the list, having approved a move to a $15 minimum wage—that trade-off is no longer working.

The bottom line on labor: Make something less expensive and businesses will use more of it. Make something more expensive and businesses will use less of it. The Congressional Budget Office has forecast a loss of 500,000 jobs should the president's proposal to increase the federal minimum wage to $10.10 an hour become law.

The CBO also forecast that this increase would lift a number of people who already have jobs above the poverty threshold. For 500,000 unemployed people, however, that's 500,000 opportunities American businesses will never create.

ObamaCare is also increasing the cost of hiring inexperienced workers. The health-care law requires that businesses with more than 50 full-time employees offer medical insurance to employees working 30 or more hours a week. The administration knows that the employer mandate will kill jobs and has twice delayed implementing it. With an election on the horizon, American businesses know that these delays were political and that the mandate's economically damaging impact is in the pipeline, coming their way.

ObamaCare gives businesses an incentive to either eliminate entry-level jobs or keep the workers' hours to under 30 a week. It also gives businesses a reason to reduce the hours of experienced employees to under 30 a week. These experienced employees are now working second jobs to compensate for their lost hours—resulting in fewer positions for less-experienced workers.

To get on the ladder of opportunity, America's young people need jobs. Creating disincentives to hire them diminishes the notion that "if you work hard and take responsibility, you can get ahead." The reality is that you can't get ahead if you can't find a job.

I'm not speaking primarily as a business CEO. My company will adjust to new laws. I'm speaking as someone from a working-class family. I started work scooping ice cream for the minimum wage at Baskin-Robbins. To put myself through college and law school while supporting my family, I cut lawns, painted houses and busted concrete with a jackhammer. I know how important these jobs are. For one thing, they taught me—as no lectures from my parents ever could—that I needed a good education so I wouldn't have to settle for low-paying work the rest of my life. Too many young people today are being deprived of even that basic lesson.


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Tue, 06/10/2014 - 09:34 | 4840175 CH1
CH1's picture

Here's a guy with actual experience. His only error is imagining that politicians give a shit about it.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 09:36 | 4840191 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

We need more guys like him.

Better lower his pay.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 09:40 | 4840215 Publicus
Publicus's picture

A rising tide lifts all boats. Raise the minimun wage.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 09:43 | 4840225 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Yes, fuck those 500,000 people who will either lose or not get a job. 

I've met Pudzer IRL.  Nice dude.  Has a banging Aston Martin Vantage. 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 09:45 | 4840236 Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

What does the birth rate in the US look like in light of all these broke young people?

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 09:47 | 4840246 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

it looks very Latino

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 09:59 | 4840305 pods
pods's picture

Simply put, a raise in the minimum wage is a pay cut for everyone above it.


Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:05 | 4840333 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

The Lib-tards will keep fucking things up  to stay in power by making more voters dependent on their social programs.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:13 | 4840366 americanreality
americanreality's picture

Whenever I see "libtards" or "republican't" I immediatly disregard the comment and assume that the poster is either hired to foster division between the citizens or he is too dense to see through the two party scam.  Where do you fall?  

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:15 | 4840595 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

I fall in the "fuck you with a rake you pompous asshole" category.

And if you disregarded my comment then why the fuck did you ask me for an answer.

Unless of course you're a real douche ball neo-intellectual BMW driving cunt.

And I bet you even have an aluminum receiver rifle.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:16 | 4840611 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Carl's Jr. CEO explains why nobody cares about young people and why we are handing them this pile of shit called the future.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:28 | 4840657 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

Young people today.  This is are (sic) story.

And wearing hoodies all the time.  Those are scary.  You never know what's underneath them.


Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:41 | 4840732 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

A large part of the problem is the treating of young "adults" as children.

Twenty-somethings are the new children.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:58 | 4840795 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Thirty-something are the new children coming up pretty shortly. You do realize that you will for the first time, see the first generation that played Pokemon (of which many members still do play Pokemon) is just getting out of med school. Welcome, my friend, to state-owned video game doctors.

Does Mr. CEO-of-Carl's-Jr eat... Carl's Jr.?

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 12:12 | 4840839 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

What "ladder of opportunity" is he talking about?

Working at the FED or Goldman Sachs?

How many of those jobs are there?

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 13:07 | 4841072 Keyser
Keyser's picture

All part of the master plan folks. The destruction of the scoio-economic balance to dis-infranchise an entire generation to the idea of capitalism. Couple this with the push to change the demographics of the US, accelerating to a latino society, effectively killing the prior paradigm built on northern european values... This is long game long game to destroy the US...

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 13:29 | 4841154 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

The reality is that you can't get ahead if you can't find a job.

>These days, according to the National Employment Law Project, the average age of fast-food workers is 29< 

This guy writes some fun propaganda, but reality is something else. 

The kids are fine, if they never have to work at a shitfest like carl's jr, all the better. 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 13:47 | 4841243 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Yeah, you're right. Let's start 'em out as CEOs. Better yet, let's outlaw all "shitty" jobs. Because "nobody wants to do them"...right?

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 14:01 | 4841300 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Yeah, you're right. Let's start 'em out as CEOs. Better yet, let's outlaw all "shitty" jobs.

OP presents a strawman argument in the WSJ and you add another one.

I think I said something about avg age of fast food workers being 29...

You do present an interesting philosophical argument in your strawman though, what benefit do these shit companies with their shit jobs (not to mention shit products) actually bring to the economy?

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 14:17 | 4841378 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Do you think these giant corporations just sprang up out of the ground, randomly, and fully formed?

They got that big because hundreds of millions of people decided that they would benefit by purchasing their goods and/or services.

Maybe you don't want to eat at Carl's Jr. An awful lot of people do. Consequently, the jobs they create are-- by definition-- in demand.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 14:45 | 4841504 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture


You make a brilliant counterpoint, the 'lots of people do it therefore it's beneficial' playbook.

Lots of people abuse prescription drugs, lots of people are morbidly obese, lots of people love using cocaine etc. etc. And consequently the jobs they create are-- by definition-- in demand.

They got that big because hundreds of millions of people decided that they would benefit by purchasing their goods and/or services.

If by benefit you mean became addicted to sugary fat engineered in labs, yes you are correct. Much like many people benefitted by choosing to purchase products from the tobacco cartel for many decades. 


Don't get me wrong, if people want to balloon their bodies eating garbage whilst injecting heroin all day (as long as it's not around me) I could care less. I would simply question the merits & sustainability of an economy centred around such products. 



Tue, 06/10/2014 - 21:16 | 4842797 captain_menace
captain_menace's picture

Minor point; you couldn't care less.


I assume.


Humans make f*cked up consumption decisions all the time.  Isn't a free market great?  You can decide for yourself how you want to abuse yourself and allocate your own resources.

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 07:25 | 4843795 SeekingNuNormal
SeekingNuNormal's picture

But of course the obvious issue is that the healthy people wind of paying for the unhealthy people in our current healthcare system. If obese people had to bear the full brunt of their lifestyle decisions, then let it rain McFatBurgers for all I care.

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 01:56 | 4843537 sonoftx
sonoftx's picture

Did you read the article? Why is the avg. age 29?; because he is not hiring young people. My worst shit job was working in a mall selling shoes. Do away with that shit company with that shitty job and if I have to work that pos job then you should have to pay me at least double. I also hauled quite a bit of hay, hey tell that farmer he can't pay me minimum wage for doing this pos job and he is just a greedy capitalist taking advantage of a "brilliant" 17 yo kid. And the summer I spent digging forms getting paid min wage was the summer I decided that knowledge was power and thought about what knowledge I wanted to gain. I personally know two people who have worked in fast food for 15- 20 yrs(one recently went to work for 7-11) but they both enjoyed their jobs as much ore more than many professionals I know. It's a matter of perspective, expectations, IQ, desires. I also have a sister and brother in law who recent sold a franchised fast food restaurant and yes let's give all of those pot smoking, alcoholic, warrants out, going to jail, xbox playing Mensa members 10-12 dollar an hour raise.

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 02:22 | 4843557 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

 Why is the avg. age 29?; because he is not hiring young people.

Avg. has been creeping up for decades and reached mid 20s years ago, author is trying to connect it to 'disincentives' like higher minimum wage + obama care, bunch of bs.

I also hauled quite a bit of hay, hey tell that farmer he can't pay me minimum wage for doing this pos job and he is just a greedy capitalist taking advantage of a "brilliant" 17 yo kid. 

Farmer had you employed on payroll? I doubt it. 

the summer I spent digging forms getting paid min wage was the summer I decided that knowledge was power and thought about what knowledge I wanted to gain.

I gave no indication I am against entry level work or crappy jobs for kids. I worked crappy jobs in my teens, the main lesson I gleaned from these experiences is there are people stuck in such jobs being paid horrendously and treated like subhumans by dumbass piece-of-shit bosses and I am extraordinarily lucky to have been born well enough to not have to endure that life. 

The funny thing is this guy talks about learning the value of a higher education and then explains how he paid his way through law school working low wage summer jobs. 

Most of the people working low wage jobs in their late 20s+ are not ignorant of the value of attending harvard law. Gawdamn, if only I'd realized the value of an education!!

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 12:38 | 4840959 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

The sad thing is Davy, as a parent I care very much for my kids. My daughter's first job at 16 was selling concessions at Sea World during the shows. Grueling work lugging drinks up the stairs and barking the crowds. She was the only white girl doing it and, yes, we got a few calls how she wanted to quit. My husband told her during one tearful call " Dry your eyes and get the fuck back to work now!"

After calculating her expenses we did realize she only made about 1.50/hr but the experience was invaluable. At the end of that job she was the highest seller in the park. She is now doing very well at 24 and is well respected by her employers. She was hired before she had completed college.

The truth of the matter is experience and strong initiative trump education most of the time. People are assuming the opposite and their children are suffering. The problem is if children are allowed to be lazy or not ever be challenged they find it hard to muster any effort when necessary to get ahead. These kids got a trophy for just showing up.


Tue, 06/10/2014 - 13:33 | 4841175 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Both my kids are intelligent, hard working and talented. That's not my personal bias talking, either.

Both had good enough marks for uni, but decided against it.

My son just finished chef's college top of the class by a long way and he was the youngest in the program. Worked his arse off for to fund it.

My daughter started working for a fund-raising company out in all weathers (Canada) getting results that were 2 - 3 times higher than expected. She got two promotions in 3 months and now trains people. She's quite the painter too.

Neither have any debt.

I think they'll do OK.



Tue, 06/10/2014 - 13:40 | 4841209 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

I know

Most of the people on this site seem to actually give a shit about things beyond the available colors in the 2015 Escalade 

Maybe it's my damn judeo-christian upbringing (fucking nuns) but I feel kinda guilty handing my kids this chemically imbalanced, overmedicated, polluted, debt-slaved future and then topping their cake by telling them it's gonna be great.

When they figure out the gravity of these lies and the damage that goes with it, they're gonna be pissed  

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 13:41 | 4841197 HellFish
HellFish's picture

They very strongly and clearly voted for it, twice.  Enjoy!

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 13:43 | 4841222 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

What this country really needs is a general strike of all unskilled laborers.  That might shut these rich pricks up for awhile.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 23:02 | 4843249 WorkingFool
WorkingFool's picture

Actually what this country needs is a strike by the producers - the people who sacrificed, innvoated, took risk and worked exceptionally hard to build the wealth that you think your entitled to.  Asshole.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 23:48 | 4843357 chubbyjjfong
chubbyjjfong's picture

"Actually what this country needs is a strike by the elites - the people who manipulated, stupified, took advantage of and worked exceptionally corruptly to build the wealth that you think your entitled to.  Asshole."  Fixed it for ya.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:17 | 4840617 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Hey now, 

Clarkson already decided that cocks drive Audis now.  You are either thinking of them, or Prius drivers. 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 13:00 | 4841046 acetinker
acetinker's picture


Tue, 06/10/2014 - 21:08 | 4842759 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

You seem upset as of late.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:16 | 4840613 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> "libtards" or "republican't"

I do pretty much the same thing,  I've found I get very little out of conversing with people on a six year old level. 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:52 | 4840681 maskone909
maskone909's picture



whatever, i am politically a-sexual

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 12:53 | 4841014 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

I'm apolitical also, I just prefer intelligent discourse to the normal school yard non-sense.  The libtard/repubicunt thing plays right into the red/blue game, much as the participants claim to be above it all. 

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 01:50 | 4843525 SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

"Whenever I see "libtards" or "republican't" I immediatly disregard the comment and assume that the poster is either hired to foster division between the citizens or he is too dense to see through the two party scam. Where do you fall?"

Just because there's not a dime's worth of difference between the establishment in either party (they are the same captured politician - bought and paid for, lock stock and barrel), doesn't mean we can't complain about one party or the other from time to time, nor point out rife hypocrisy when so inclined.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:48 | 4840525 bpj
bpj's picture

The "Lib-tards" are a lot more clever than you think. By letting the border be overwhelmed with kids they have to hire a lot of government puke to see that bulge go through the snake. More cops, social workers, teachers, DMV employees, interpreters, DARE programs, DDAs, public defenders, judges, clerks,  workers' comp boards, etc.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:32 | 4840685 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

I agree.  Instead of 'libtards' we should start calling them 'evil geniustards' or 'brilliantberals' 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:49 | 4840755 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

Call 'em what you want, but you can't get a train to move if everyone is putting the fuel in the caboose.  This administration has everything bass-ackwards and is either purposefully trying to ruin America or is so clueless they could do a sit-com.  He's effing us up big time - yeah, obummer....prick.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 13:24 | 4841138 James-Morrison
James-Morrison's picture

I prefer the Dr. Seuss terms.

Thing1 and Thing2.

Take your pick which Party you assign them to.

It really doesn't make a difference.

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 01:55 | 4843531 SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

At least there's an operational establishment challenging fringe in the R party (tea party).  I don't see an effective establishment challenge in the D party, since Occupy kind of faded off..

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 13:54 | 4841276 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Let's be clear, there are two types in play: type 1 are the sick, venal, envious fucktards who are genetically incapable of producing anything of value but are slimy and psychopathic enough to achieve power "by any means necessary."

The other type are the fucking retards who are the "useful idiots". Those are the classic Libtards. Because they are retarded tools.


Tue, 06/10/2014 - 21:14 | 4842782 Tegrat
Tegrat's picture

Profound post. Mostly cause I agree and deal with the #2 daily.


Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:15 | 4840371 Pairadimes
Pairadimes's picture

What an increase in the minimum wage primarily does is destroy jobs that cannot create the value stipulated by the new minimum. This effectively outlaws any labor that is not worth the new minimum. There is plenty of demand for this less valuable labor - just look around at the burgeoning cash economy that employs illegals and others at under-the-table rates well below the minimum wage. Which means that the other thing minimum wage laws do is make outlaws out of unskilled laborers just trying to make whatever they can. With a single law, government can create a whole new cohort of broke criminals while stoking the embers of illegal immigration. Remarkable.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:22 | 4840422 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Unless the Asshat makes a salary (including fake performance plan) in the 20% of all CEOs he is not to be listened to

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:35 | 4840698 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

Outlawing jobs exactly denotes what the minimum wage law does to people who will end up working off the books.  It creates a black market where participants can't participate in the benefits under the protection of law.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 12:09 | 4840832 cro_maat
cro_maat's picture

It also gives incentives for companies to move their labor offshore.

This is all part of the Globalist plan to further ratchet the US into 3rd world status. Every economic initiative that our puppet leader announces is designed to dismantle our economy but he will state that he is fighting for our economic rights and that the economy will now thrive. When historians are no longer brainwashed there will be a chapter detailing the grisly exploits of Obama the Destroyer.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:33 | 4840689 teslaberry
teslaberry's picture

you are assuming there won't be an explosion in black market labor. there will be a huge upsurge. 


black markets also create massive greece/bribery income for local cops and other beauracrats paid to look the other way. 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:34 | 4842213 Siniverisyys
Siniverisyys's picture

If you can't afford to pay your workers a living wage: 1) your business is poorly managed, 2) there is a problem with your business model, or 3) you're just a digusting greedy cunt. Notice that all fault ultimately lies with the employer. Employees need to eat, that's a given.

It's odd that people will complain about paying $15/hr for someone to work by the sweat of their ass crack, but nobody complains about paper-pushing desk-jockey being paid $100's an hour to perform equally dubious & menial tasks.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:26 | 4840442 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

That's a fantastic way of putting it pods.  I will remember that and use it.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:10 | 4840590 PT
PT's picture

and a pay rise for everyone above the minimum wage is a pay cut for those on minimum wage. 

But that's all right because the banks will just lend them more money so they can compete for goods and services in the real world ...

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 09:46 | 4840247 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

The uneducated ones -- I am sure its up, as there is nothing else to do, and sex is free -- most of the time.

The educated ones -- probably plummeting as they sit in their parents basements and resist the urge to slit their wrists vertically. 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:00 | 4840303 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

Work ruins your life, thanks to them.


Feeling miserable on Mondays, half decent on Thursdays, happy on Fridays and anxious on Sundays thinking about Monday - when everyday should be a 'Friday.'


Us commoners are the unluckiest life forms in the Universe...we've some how, against incredible odds, seemed to have lost 10,000,000,000 coin flips in a row.

(or is the coin fuckin rigged? A. exactly)

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:01 | 4840316 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

We as humanity have the ability to feel love, happiness, sadness, passion.  We are emotional creatures -- something most other life forms are not. 

We were born into the wealtiest culture on the planet, with one of the highest standards of living (culture meaning not below the tropic of capicorn), we can travel the world, love, get married have a family, celebrate holidays, converse with one another -- and you call that unlucky? 

You are dilusional

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:20 | 4840395 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

The holidays you celebrate are all pagan. Which one is your favourite - Samhain? When boys are dressed up like their favourite demon/zombie or girls a 'sexy' - anything. Or is it Yule? Where we sit on an obese man dressed in a red suit asking for presents? Maybe its Ester? Where a bunny jumps across your lawn delivering chocolate cadbury eggs?


Travel the world? Is that before or after you get X-rayed and a dog has sniffed your ass?


Wealthiest culture? Ask the 3rd world countries about that. How do you judge wealth? By material or spiritual. Because spiritually we have never been lower.


Married? Divorce rates are at its highest level due to 'them'. They are breaking down the family =divide and conquer


Converse with one another? On social media talking about nonsense?


Yes, i call that extremely unlukcy - our lives have been hijacked.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:21 | 4840412 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

While I do not doubt your last sentence -- calling us the unluckiest life form on the planet is a not just a "little" stretch, but a huge one. 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:26 | 4840443 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

You whine like a child, yet have a living standard that could not have been purchased by the richest families just 150 years ago.

Your going to hate the rest of your life ... it is all down hill from here bucko.




Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:43 | 4840502 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

On the contrary -im fascinated by it.


Knowledge is the ultimate on this earth trip. We are here to learn.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:47 | 4840518 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

I am here to learn how to make as much money as possible. 

What say you?

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:53 | 4840533 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture


Im here to acquire knowledge with like minded independent thinkers and get to a higher level density.


I cant take anything with me when im 'gone', except my soul.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:38 | 4840719 detached.amusement
detached.amusement's picture

and its experiences ;)

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:56 | 4840783 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

Knowledge is power.  Go for it.  In the end the way you can measure the value of your collective experience is not by what people remember about what you said or what you did, but by how you made them feel.  I choose that they smile when they think about me.  So far so good. 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 13:40 | 4841208 logicalman
logicalman's picture

You come into this world with nothing.....

You leave it with twice as much.....

At least try to enjoy the ride.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:15 | 4840608 Confused
Confused's picture

With all due respect, I'm fairly certain that this 'living standard' in its exact form (ie smart phones, computers, etc) would not have been possible, however, one could make a strong argument that this in fact is NOT a higher living standard. I'm sure 150 years ago debt was also viewed differently and family and moral values played a larger role in everyday life. 


So while your point is valid, you might want to start your replies off differently. You come off like a dick. 



Tue, 06/10/2014 - 17:59 | 4841436 JuliaS
JuliaS's picture

Other lifeforms are not emotional? Have you ever owned a cat or a dog? Have you ever been around any anmial that goes into your dinner? Logical reasoning might be one thing they lack, but their emotional empathy often exceeds human counterpart.

The whole reason religion along with the belief in a transcending human soul was invented was to give us - self-conscious creatures, an excuse to commit crimes against other creatures, but assigning them lower status. Religion is nothing but a set of convenient double standards. Nothing else.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 09:58 | 4840304 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

The "unintended" consequesces of jacking up minimum wage does have the upshot of creating a rather large demographic of ignorant, spoiled, young people that can easily be used to foment chaos when time comes to put troops in the street. Jussayin...

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:01 | 4840317 Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

This generation? Are you kidding?


This is the most apathetic generation in 200 years.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:15 | 4840373 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

Don't think that they're all apathetic, there are many that want to be out there but have little to look forward to at this point. It only takes a few to start a movement. Also don't underestimate the angst and its power to  create interest in setting something big on fire with the perception of zero legal consequences.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:32 | 4840683 Confused
Confused's picture

I'm not so sure. I go back and forth on the youth. Some days I am hopeful. Others....not so much. 

There is a growing number of youth around the US/Europe, who are aware of the situation that we all face. They are vehemently anti-war, anti-NSA, etc. However, they continue to use things like facebook and smart phones.

I think we are at a critical point, in which a large number of the youth will deviate from their peers and continue to gain awareness. And the rest will continue to march in step. 


Tue, 06/10/2014 - 12:48 | 4840995 Chewybunny
Chewybunny's picture

It may also be important to define what the youth is. I'm not at all sure at this point since the economic downturn pretty much froze a ton of people my age into perpatual youth mentality. The older edge of the spectrum is probably the most ready to boil over since they were the first ones to experience the dam breaking back in 08' - many of them had already tasted a career and started putting together a life - just to have it obliterated right beneath them. Then there is the second wave that never even had a taste of a career, couldn't even get started, and they certainly have no clue what to do. And I think it was that second wave that was the bulk of the Occupy Movement in 11'. They weren't apathetic - just leaderless, clue-less, and without any real solution or realistic demans. But certainly they weren't apathetic - just ignorant to the real world - since they've never had a taste for it.

Now i think there is a third wave that is either forgoing college, or perpetuating it so they can "ride out the storm". But the breaking point is definately getting there, rather fast. People my age (late 20s early 30s) are extremely pessimistic about the status quo and the state in general - at least from the perception I get out of hanging with them.  

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:19 | 4840398 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

If, by apathetic, you mean they don't care about you or anything you built, then yes.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:54 | 4840539 Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

Exactly they don't care that their lives have been taken away from them.


An entire generation robbed of oportunity and they don't even look up to see who took it from them.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:57 | 4840547 bpj
bpj's picture

I think the common thread in this generation is that they all want celebrity, any way they can get it. It that means breaking there back parkouring or 15lb doulble jack sledge hammer to the nuts, they will do it. Why not let someone shoot you with a Q-tip from a rifle, it only goes in your arm 3/4", you'll recover. This kind of thinking came about when they ran out shock value with outrageous piercings and tatoos.  

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:52 | 4840772 Confused
Confused's picture

You are right about them wanting celebrity. But I think its a bit more complicated than tattoos and piercings. I'm going to guess that you are slightly older and less than 'socially liberal.' (I'm sorry, I hate the term as it has been perverted, but I can not think of another way to say it) 

I do not say this as an offense. I think it shows both a cultural and generational difference in thought. For example, many people (both young and old) that live near me in Europe have piercings of various kinds. Certainly there are some that are completely wild and unsettling, but 99% are not, and are something as simple as a tiny nose stud. They hold various professional jobs. In is not uncommon and it is not a cultural taboo. Or not as nearly taboo as it is in the states. For some older people in the US, this is a fairly 'new' thing, piercings and tatoos and have been generally painted to be behavior of criminals. Perhaps because of sailors and actual jailhouse tatoos. 

The desire for celebrity was not born out of loss of shock value of these things. Computers, smart phones, social networks, these are the engines that allow people to attain their fifteen minutes of fame. Instantly and to millions of people. And in some cases people profit from it. Never has this been possible in the history of man. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Justin Bieber is being paid millions from Disney after being discovered on youtube. Or the countless number of shows aimed at young adults that show kids in their age group living fantastic lives....Miley Cyrus as Hanna Montana? 

Shock value does not equate with celebrity.

I have tattoos. I am a professional. I am productive (which as I type it I realize means compliant) I do not want celebrity. I want to live quietly, and be left the fuck alone. 

And please do not discount the social phenomena of people wanting to be heard. To be important. This is just as strong a motivation as the social conditioning that has been applied. 


Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:59 | 4840798 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

Can't judge a book by looking at the cover.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 13:47 | 4841242 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Definitely with you on the 'I want to live quietly, and be left the fuck alone' bit.

The simple life doesn't sit well with the Corporate Monster and its hunger for more and more profit.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:26 | 4840652 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

My view is that we have a generation and a half spread of pure cannon fodder.  A forced army ready to stop bullets when the lights go out.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:08 | 4840346 outamyeffinway
outamyeffinway's picture

Sex is never free. Even if you don't "pay" for it.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:16 | 4840376 americanreality
americanreality's picture

Wise words. 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 13:49 | 4841247 logicalman
logicalman's picture

A good friend of mine, having just been taken to the cleaners by his ex, once said to me "I've never paid for sex in my life, but it's cost me a fucking fortune getting it for free!


Tue, 06/10/2014 - 09:56 | 4840286 CH1
CH1's picture

I've met Pudzer IRL.  Nice dude.

Always good to get real-life input. Thanks.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:11 | 4840332 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

He's a relative of mine, and an utter douchebag.

Especially at birthday dinners and funerals.

God, the stories I could tell.

edit: Yes, there's no way to confirm what I said, but it feels so good to up/down vote unsubstantiated BS that confirms/refutes one's existing biases.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:13 | 4840602 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

cool story bro.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 12:07 | 4840825 Wait What
Wait What's picture

i've seen him out running the Rincon Point trail near CKE headquarters before. actually sociable considering he's a CEO. convinced me to visit their flagship Carl's Jr. there in Carp and i was not disappointed. best fast food service ever, what i've heard 1950's service was like.

It does seem completely weird that a pro-fast food, pro-labor-market-clearing CEO would base his company in one of the most expensive (if most beautiful) beach towns in california. you sure don't see many fat people on those beaches, yet their flagship restaurant is always busy.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:07 | 4840341 Groundhog Day
Groundhog Day's picture

My father recently retired at 67. They begged him to stay for 3 more years due to his experience. They would have to hire 3 people to do what he did. When I asked him if he taught his replacement he replied the bare minimum. I asked why and his response was very interesting.

He stated that all these years the company squeezed him like an orange to do more and more for the same pay and he complied. He has no interest in their profitability once he is gone. I sense a lot of the experienced workers might be feeling this way. Thier will be a generation of college grads that never get the experience

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 01:37 | 4843517 I MISS KUDLOW
I MISS KUDLOW's picture

he got squeezed and the banker made off like bandits with stock profits

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:14 | 4840368 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

So this guy won't hire people making the minimum, but the same amount of work will need to be done. Does that mean he'll have people making higher pay do it? I would think that regardless of what the minimum is, that's what he'd want for his entire staff.

He doesn't seem all that smart to me. Must be a Republican.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:04 | 4840575 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture

Ahhhh no.

He is now investing heavily in preparing to retrofit all of his human employees in his fast food restaurants with computers and robots.

Touch panel ordering and robots cranking out the food.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:06 | 4840584 Blues Traveler
Blues Traveler's picture

you missed the point

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:52 | 4840770 Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture

Like any intelligent business operator, he/she/they will find a way to follow the letter of the law but ultimately find ways to beat the intent of the law (the intent of this law is to force one party to overpay another party for a service). This could be anything from changing total business hours of operation, to automation, to increased workloads per employee, price increases, reduction in physical locations, etc etc.

Also, you "must be a Socialist" who has no respect for economic logic.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 12:04 | 4840811 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

If the value isn't there, the people will not come.  Long: Out of Business signs.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:59 | 4840800 aardvarkk
aardvarkk's picture

He SWINGS and he misses.  Lose the fixation on political parties.  It will help you learn.  Douchebags come in both R and D flavors.  It's been my experience that while there are plenty of both, the R flavor at least is usually marginally less hypocritical (but only marginally).

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:07 | 4840336 crazzziecanuck
crazzziecanuck's picture

It's like a person complaining that he's not going to buy as much product after a price increase when he was never really were buying before when the price was low.  Then using the proposed price increase an excuse to use as a threat to keep the price low.

The WSJ piece here is a self-serving load of supply-side claptrap.  It's like herpes.  No matter how many times it's killed, it comes right back.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:45 | 4840742 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

You're talking about the price elasticity of demand as if it were a fairy tale.  Without growth in revenues, why would businesses hire?  With Obamacare and Obamawage creating costs without increases in value, why would employers take on more employees?  


You are crazy, though.  That's true enough.  And you're maple leaf socialism is made possible by the generosity of treasury and young lives of the American people. I would love it if you and the rest of the 'developed' world would take care of your own security so Americans can go back to taking care of ourselves.



Tue, 06/10/2014 - 14:08 | 4841332 logicalman
logicalman's picture

How many hours a week do you work for the government.

Easy to figure out - see how much tax you pay.

How many hours a week would you work if there was no bunch of armed thugs stealing from you daily?

I know my work week would be considerably shorter.

As for 'the generosity of the treasury..... can you get me some of whatever you are smoking?

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 20:42 | 4842630 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

The generosity of the treasury is about all the money the US taxpayer and bondholder spend to fund all these wars, NATO, partrolling the east coast of Africa, the East China Sea, the Sea of Japan, the DMZ in Korea, the Persian Gulf, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.  

Little 't', not big 'T'.  As in the capital, the wealth of the American people forced to shoulder the burden vis a vis taxes.  

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:07 | 4840338 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

You're talking about trying to simply raise all the boats directly, there sparky. Or is this just sarc?

Rising tide denotes top down measures like tax breaks, or enacting and enforcing sound regulation, aka: a recovering economy. Minimum wage increases are the same thing as government price fixing. You can read about that in a history book. I'd recommend reading one, and look for one written before 1950.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:09 | 4840351 Agent P
Agent P's picture

"A rising tide lifts all boats. Raise the minimun wage."

If by boats you mean prices....

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:17 | 4840388 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Hahahahah ....

A rising tide lifts all boats. Raise the minimun wage.

You must be one of the engineers who designed Fukushima; it's easy it is to apply aphorisms to real world problems! Good thing nature and natural laws abide by them.



Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:27 | 4840447 Nue
Nue's picture

Yes but it also drowns everyone who doesn't have a boat yet.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 12:07 | 4840827 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

When the philosophical boat is full of ideologic holes, that fucker ain't gonna' float, no matter whose 10,000-page book of regulations it's anchored by.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:50 | 4840528 tempo
tempo's picture

Economic success means Taking 1 full time job and create 2 part time jobs.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:11 | 4840591 NewAmericaNow
NewAmericaNow's picture

But a rising tide does not mean their is more water on earth. It merely means water has been reallocated from one place to another leaving the other devoid of local water

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 02:43 | 4843575 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Land does sink...

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:39 | 4840709 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

re Publicus's post of 9:40...  Stockholm Syndrome strong in junkers is.  -Yoda.

All sarcasm aside, has anyone considered this issue in the context of the big picture?  I.e., although it's "OK"* to raise Exec compensation, it's OK to issue new currency at obscene rates and make it available to the top 0.1% at 0.01%, it's OK to raise prices, it's OK to replace people with automation and computers, it's OK to burden the national debt with endless arms and wars, it's OK to burden the national debt with a police/surveillance state, it's OK to neglect national infrastructure, it's OK to subsidize select businesses with slave labor (illegals undercutting labor rates), it's OK to create Neo-Feudalism under the guise of other "isms", because all these things are in the National Interest - right!?

But it is NOT OK to... have a healthy, educated populace earning a living wage, because... that is against the National Interest.  Right?  After all, given that the "National Interest" is not you & me, but the wealth and lifestyle of the 1% and its ruling Oligarch families, why have a healthy, educated population, when the model of Neo-Feudalism works so fine for them and they can simply bring in more legal and illegal labor to maintain their elite profits?

"Food?  You want more food?  Stop bleating and wanking, and get back to work, knave.  Or I'll replace you with other serfs who are even more desperate." [cracking whip]


* "OK" as in... "nobody is up in arms about it or marching in the streets"

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 12:09 | 4840833 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

Obama wants to recreate Kenya here in America - and in 5 years he's doing a pretty good job of it.  Dreams From His Furher...

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:49 | 4840754 PGR88
PGR88's picture

And make the Minimum wage $50/hour, that way everyone can be above-average.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:54 | 4840776 aardvarkk
aardvarkk's picture


Tue, 06/10/2014 - 12:05 | 4840820 BrosephStiglitz
BrosephStiglitz's picture

Umm.. no.  How about restructuring private sector and household debt, and deregulating the labor market?

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 12:31 | 4840925 robobbob
robobbob's picture

a boat with a big hole in the side takes everyone to the bottom

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 12:31 | 4840926 VladLenin
VladLenin's picture

I give you Common Core math... 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 12:36 | 4840945 NEOSERF
NEOSERF's picture

Raise the minimum wage and accelerate automation taking over entry level jobs.  Japan has already created a McDonalds worker robot.  

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 23:24 | 4847362 PT
PT's picture

I, for one, welcome the robots.  But you can continue to do their work if you wish.

If only all them horses weren't so lazy, wanting rest breaks and hay all the time, no-one would have bothered to invent the motor car and the horses could have kept their jobs!!!

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 13:07 | 4841079 Dr. Kenneth Noi...
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture

A rising tide drowns all those who can't fit smaller, more exclusive boats.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 13:16 | 4841108 xtop23
xtop23's picture


Have you learned nothing reading ZH?

Watch Seattle youth employment self destruct as a result of a minimum wage increase and maybe youll get the idea.

All this will do is;

A) cause small businesses to shutter up.

B) put successful businesses in a position where they are unable or unwilling to expand.

C) price unskilled labor out of a chance to gain valuable experience that could lead to future opportunity.


If this isnt immediately obvious to you ... I'm unsure what to tell ya.

Read some Mises?

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 14:28 | 4841433 logicalman
logicalman's picture

So, none of that increase in pay will be spent?

"See what a 25-cent raise will do to us," said Mr. Ford. So they figured the daily & monthly cost of a 25-cent increase. "Put on another quarter & see what that will cost," he said. And so they went on,25 cents a step...Finally the wage of $2.34 stood at $4.75--more than 100 percent increase. One of the associates--a good financial head--remarked rather sarcastically that if they were going to be fools, why not be first-class fools & make it $5..."All right," said Mr. Ford, "let's make it $5."

Henry Ford.

He knew that people needed to make enough to buy the products his business produced. Not much point in a business if no one can afford what you make.

I'm not a huge fan of the concept of minimum wages, but in a world where 'money' is the only reason for doing things, a lot of things that need to get done don't happen because they don't make a banker wealthier.

Here's another good one...

 "As betting at the race ring adds neither strength nor speed to the horse, so the exchange of shares in the stock market adds no capital to business, no increase in the production and no purchasing power to the market."

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 16:57 | 4841917 xtop23
xtop23's picture

Short term? Sure. Extremely short.

An increase in the minimum wage is inherently inflationary.

If you want to fix a problem you dont mask the symptoms. Certainly some people will find themselves "better off" for a brief period while the economy adjusts to the newfound wealth / disposable income a higher minimum wage would provide. The rub is when prices adjust, as a world of finite resources always must, and those people find themselves in the same ( or worse ) position that they were prior to such intervention.

There is a point where the rubber meets the road. You cant keep moving the goalposts and expect the impact to small business and business creation to remain "manageable".

This is the primary reason why our government finds itself in the financial straights it is currently. A stubborn refusal to admit that our problems are structural and an unwillingness to address things on that basis.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 13:28 | 4841150 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

the minimum wage movement is the same as the "war on women" movement and the "equal pay for equal work movement." It is a wedge issue promulgated by bleeding heart assholes to target well meaning but low iq voters to try to get themselves elected. Nothing more.


You want a 15 dollar an hour minimum wage for low end labor? Don't be shocked when you show up at a fast food restaurant and find a touch screen for ordering instead of an oily faced teenager. End of story. This is a movement to get pinkos elected, not to help the average joe. You want to help the average joe? Generate jobs that aren't minimum wage jobs.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 14:15 | 4841367 JuliaS
JuliaS's picture

Rising tide lifts all boats, provided you have one to begin with. If you're a neck-deep in debt student with a ball and chain of eternal servitude around your ankle, you might think twice about wishing for that tide.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 16:12 | 4841815 DetectiveStern
DetectiveStern's picture

The increase in cost of production will be passed on to consumers raising prices and eliminating the gains received by the increase in minimum wage.


How can a believer in free markets support market intervention to alter the prices the market has set? 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 21:05 | 4842737 CoonT
CoonT's picture

not all boats deserve to rise

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 07:34 | 4843811 TruthHunter
TruthHunter's picture

"A rising tide lifts all boats. Raise the minimun wage."

But a rising tide sinks leaky boats.

Minimum wage? Walmart doesn't want to raise it. 

Its better to print 6 billion more FRN's than pay a living wage.


Tax avoidance is alway theoreticallyt possible. Let someone

else pay the cost.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:02 | 4840310 Georgia_Boy
Georgia_Boy's picture

(@Spastica) I upvoted because am starting to feel differently about the whole minimum wage thing. For a site like this that makes such an effort to look beyond the easy answers, I am starting to find the supply and demand, Economics 101 answer to minimum wages oversimplistic, and that's what most guest contributors seem to be relying on.

We need better controls against the powerful squeezing the rest of us.  I don't know if there is a better way to do that than setting a minimum wage, but if there is a better answer, we aren't doing it now.

I don't think the minimum wage that we have is doing much to increase unemployment, just reading about what studies were done in recent years, and doubt that a few more dollars an hour will make it much worse.  Like I said in the recent posts about the labor force participation rate, I am not necessarily against less people in every household working for pay. It depends on who is employed and who isn't, and why.  The government won't like it because a day care center = more workers they can tax, whereas stay at home parenting doesn't do that.  Not all work should be monetized and taxed.

Though of course that genie is long out of the bottle, and the result may be just as many two-career households and simply a few more households in the 20% that are totally unemployed.  I don't pretend to know for sure, I just doubt the minimum wage is at all in the range that it makes it much harder for most poor people to get jobs.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:10 | 4840354 crazzziecanuck
crazzziecanuck's picture

I agree there.

What do you think the landlords in Seattle are thinking right now?  My captive market now has more income, I can increase rents now.  Same with local corner stores and bodegas.  People who shop in my store now have more money and I can (finally) increase prices now that I'm no longer constrained by their incomes.

I don't want to sound like a right-winger, but to me, raising the minimum wage can just be another form of wealth transfer from one rich demographic to another rich demographic by way o poorer people.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:21 | 4840408 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

And the rich must be thinking, great! Fewer people on Medicaid and food stamps, so my taxes won't go up!

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:52 | 4840532 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

The government would actually prefer fewer people working if they were all paid higher.  That would mean more of the productive people are in a higher tax bracket.  It would be a proxy signal of a return to growth, and most everybody would be happy.  But instead, we're getting shit jobs when we can get a job. 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:04 | 4840574 bpj
bpj's picture

Minimum wage arguement would be econ 101 it the fucking government would have let labor supply remain finite. I remember when the illegals broke the drywall union in So Cal and 10 years after the firat amnesty were trying to form another union to protect themselves from illegal aliens still coming across.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:23 | 4840641 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Your minimum wage argument is merely another example of "two wrongs making a right."

Practically ALL of society's problems emerge from the same core problem, continual destruction of the currency with the Fed's magic checkbook.

Until that problem is honestly addressed, any and all solutions merely increase the destruction. Not to mention, they provide politicos with a reason to exist (another core problem).

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:48 | 4840753 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture


Tue, 06/10/2014 - 17:03 | 4841941 xtop23
xtop23's picture

Well said.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:46 | 4840743 Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

yer over thinkin it.  information overload has convinced you the simple answer just can't be correct.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 12:38 | 4840955 PT
PT's picture

Georgia_Boy:  Here is one I prepared earlier.  Excerpt from

comment 4803598:

1.  The Achilles Heel of a minimum wage increase is the cheaper labour elsewhere.
2.  Otherwise, the benefits of richer customers and debt dilution outweigh the  burden of more expensive employees ... until some external wall is hit, such as reaching a resource supply limit.
3.  Minimum wage increases are actually about allowing debt to be repaid instead of defaulted on - bailing out the banks.
4.  Point 3 will be negated by the banks themselves when every dollar in pay rises results in real estate prices rising by ten dollars, or 20 dollars if everyone is already sharing accommodation.
5.  Banks have more political leverage than minimum wage workers.

The thing to remember about minimum wages is that it sets the wage of the poorest customer, as well as the poorest worker.  So, for the Walmarts and McDs of this world, the down side is that they have to pay their workers more but the upside is that their customer is also paid more.  Cue my constant reference to

where Peter Schiff asserts that a $15 per hour minimum wage for Walmart workers (doubling the minimum wage at the time) would result in a 15% rise in prices.  Double your wage for 15% inflation?  What's not to like?  Less customers due to higher prices?  Are you going to buy less when inflation is 15% but your wages have doubled?  Jobs disappear?  Sure they do, as I mentioned in point one above - they go overseas to non-minimum wage zones, as does your customers.

In inflation adjusted terms our minimum wage has already halved over the last 50 years, but more importantly, the distribution has changed, as dissected here ( one hour, skip first six minutes (introductions) if you must) :

I watched the price of real estate quadruple over the space of seven years.  (The statistics bureau might disagree with me but that is what I saw in the newspapers in my town).  But no-one ever writes articles about how over-priced real estate destroys an economy.  Houses cost too much?  Oh, that's just supply and demand - you didn't work hard enough / smart enough / innovate / take risks / manage your risks.  (What is a risk?  It is borrowing money even though you don't know if you can repay it.  Is that really what we need to do?) while completely neglecting to mention that the market for real estate is totally rigged.  Supply is limited, houses are kept off market in order to jack up prices, money is lent to desperate idiots (who cannot repay the loan) in order that they can outbid anyone who can do maths and drive prices artificially high ...

... and ZH publishes CEOs, earning 100s x the minimum wage, explaining why minimum wages are hurting the economy.  The fox is explaining to the hens the magical freedom of the fence-less chicken coop.

A large part of the "Economics" that you learnt is not Economics.  It is propaganda, pure and simple.

Just as some sharks hijack religion and twist it to their own nefarious ends, other sharks hijack Economics and twist it to their own nefarious ends.  Looked in that light, why are we surprised that so much "Economics" is really just propaganda?  You expect religious leaders to be guided by some kind of fear of the Almighty God, but aren't the Economists going to say whatever the highest paying boss pays them to say?

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 13:21 | 4841128 PT
Wed, 06/11/2014 - 05:34 | 4843676 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

CH1  Here's a guy with actual experience. His only error is imagining that politicians give a shit about it.


Spastica Rex       We need more guys like him.  Better lower his pay.


Except for the fault that Andrew Pudzer doesn't understand that what Obama is doing is on purpose. Obama doesn't give a fuck about eh country, just who or which party runs it. and controls you. Haven't you figured that out yet? Thenwhy do yo make silly comments supporting someone that doesn't FULLY get it yet. Yes, I like the principles, but those principles only matter if you understand the game. Andrew is on a checkers board while Obama is on a chess board.


Tue, 06/10/2014 - 09:37 | 4840203 RevRex
RevRex's picture

The Young and The Foolish got what they voted for....Hoax and Chains


One would think that the American voter would have asked "What kind of change?"


I guess when the Socialist Semite Media slammed on Bush for 9 years, idiots thought any kind of change would be for the better.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 09:41 | 4840221 Gaius Frakkin' ...
Gaius Frakkin&#039; Baltar's picture

Go peddle the GOP somewhere else.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 09:45 | 4840241 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

show us one GOP member that voted for the ACA... just one...

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 09:54 | 4840278 pods
pods's picture

Yep, GOP is gonna save us, we just need to get them back all the power.  


Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:08 | 4840348 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

Just because one has the intelligence to point out that socialism is a lie does not make one a Republican.

In case you did not know, socialism is now the new trend, with incessant promises of a better future.

Judging by the gullibility and demographics of the average voter, it is here to stay.


So enjoy that wait for a better tomorrow.

Hope you got a Snicker's bar. You gonna need it.


Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:26 | 4840440 pods
pods's picture

The monetary system of the United States is a fractional reserve debt backed currency.

In order for this currency system to continue to function, the aggregate debt (money supply as credit performs as cash in our system) must continually rise in order to stave off a spiralling implosion of debt supply contraction by cascading defaults.

If you look at the charts, in 2008, private credit contracted and threatened this system.  The US government stepped up and filled this void of credit creation to keep the system from imploding.

You are arguing about how this credit is spent.  Like the fleas arguing about who owns the dog they ride on.  How this is spent is relevant only to the emotional and small minded.  Educating those willing to entertain some unpleasant realities as to WHY it is spent is what I prefer to waste my time and energy on.



Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:28 | 4840455 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Have you had the experience yet, when someone you have been working on finally sees the light?  Its a magical experience to be there for that. 

(And the minutes thereafter when they call their broaker to liquidate and go into AG/AU and a real estate in the Swiss Alps)

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:34 | 4840478 pods
pods's picture

Just YESTERDAY a girl at work was talking to me about this stuff.  I had talked with her in the past about certain topics (money mainly) and yesterday she was talking about a "crash." She is young, unjaded, and has her whole life ahead of her.  After talkng I said offhand "buy some junk silver" she said her husband was looking to do just that.

People can only delude themselves for so long before the Cog Dis becomes too uncomfortable for those who value understanding. Eventually they start to entertain ideas that sounds absurd. Eventually they start to see that although those ideas might be absurd, they fit with all the facts.

It happens.


Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:44 | 4840508 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

That sounds like an awesome experience. 

I have found trying to describe the day after the collapse is when I lose people.  I can show them the USDebtClock, a 20 year S&P Chart, and they are all with me.  Then the question always arises, what happens the day after this crash happens, and you have to explain what happens when BOA no longer exists, supply chains (temporarily) dry up and gas shortages prohibit deliveries to super markets, how the USD in their wallet will either become worthless, or it is enough to essentially purchase a packet of gum, or prices start falling slower than their income. 

Their eyes glaze over, and I am instantly a doomsdayer conspiracy theorist.  The destruction of wealth will be so fast -- no one will be able to do anything to stop it.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 11:53 | 4840780 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

You're just making it harder on  for yourself.  

Very few people see that doomsday scenario happening.  Especially if you live in cities like NY or LA.

I've talked to people why I moved my cash out of Chase.  These people have  skills in finance.  I told them about how JPMChase took the derivative liability from JPM and transferred it to their bank sub Chase, putting depositors' savings and checking accounts at risk of losing it all....crickets and glazed-over eyes.  These are people with Wall Street backgrounds!

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 12:07 | 4840829 aardvarkk
aardvarkk's picture

I need to take Friday's check to CostCo and blow the whole thing on canned and dry goods.  I always get that urge when a conversation takes a turn like this.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 12:14 | 4840855 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

Never doubt the chance of the unthinkable.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 10:41 | 4840499 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

Well said, friend. I wrote something similar below... decided to look up what I pretty much already knew. Here is a quick summary of the corporation for which this CEO represents:
The current CEO is Andrew Puzder, who has served as CKE CEO since September 2000.[7]

On February 26, 2010, THL Partners agreed to acquire CKE Restaurants Inc.[8] Ultimately CKE accepted a $693.9 million takeover offer from Apollo Management, ending the earlier takeover agreement with THL Partners.[9]

On November 20, 2013, Roark Capital agreed to acquire CKE from Apollo for $1.65-$1.75 billion.[10]

As of November 5, 2012, CKE operated 893 domestic restaurants and its franchisees operated 1,937 domestic and 462 international restaurants in the United States and 27 other countries.[2]

So as I said below... this corporate entity is just part of the banker's game. I didn't say it forcefully below, as I had not yet done the research... but fuck this guy... Andrew Puzder is a shill.

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