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Two Thirds Of Gen X Households Have Less Wealth Than Their Parents Did At The Same Age

Tyler Durden's picture




 

While the endless propaganda regurgitated from every media outlet will have the average American believe (inbetween trips to collect and cash unemployment checks) that in the first quarter the economy crashed due to weather, or that millions of Americans are bailing on the labor force - oddly enough, most of those Americans are in in the 16-19 age group: retiring early, right?...

... the reality is far, far simpler: the myth of the US economic recovery is nothing more than a lie of mythic proportions.

Take Generation X: those millions of Americans born between 1960 and 1980 who in a truly recovering and thriving economy would be at the forefront of career opportunities and of wealth creation. Instead, as an extended Bloomberg profile of Gen X shows, there has hardly been a generation in worse shape than Americans between their mid-30s and mid-40s... perhaps with the exception of Gen Y, and the Millennials of course.

So propaganda aside, what is life really like for a group of people that in a parallel universe, one with a truly vibrant, growing economy, should have never been better? Sadly, "life" as it is lived and not shown on TV makes one wonder if X stands for Exterminate.

Take Vera Johnson from Seattle. Vera, one of the several Gen-Xers profiled by BBG, "is barely making do, let alone saving for retirement."

“I try to remain in the present moment and not live in fear of the future,” said Johnson, who has neither retirement savings nor a college fund for her two children. “My property is underwater, the properties around me are underwater, I’m not building equity in my home.”

 

The 45-year-old almost lost her home to foreclosure in 2010 after the housing-market collapse in the worst recession since World War II. She embodies the financial challenges facing America’s Generation X, those born between the mid-1960s and 1980, which lags behind other generations in building assets.

 

When their working years end, Gen-Xers might have to live on just half of their pre-retirement income, compared with 60 percent for the Baby Boom generation, Pew said last year.

 

“Generation X is at this really critical historical spot,” said Diana Elliott, a research officer in financial security and mobility at Pew, a non-profit global research and public policy organization in Washington. “They are not doing well relative to the last generation. It should give us concern as a country.”

Just how badly are they doing? Bad enough to turn around the entire concept of middle-class prosperity in America - one where every next generation should do better than the preceding one - on its head.

Only one-third of Generation X households had more wealth than their parents held at the same age, even though most earn more, The Pew Charitable Trusts found.

And there, in a nutshell, is your so-called recovery: two thirds of an entire generation - one which is in its prime working years - doing worse than their parents!

The rest is just a story of sad anecdotes confirming that not only is there no recovery in America for the average person (the average billionaire... well that's a different story entirely), but that things are, in fact, going from bad to even worse.

First, it is the overall collapse in wealth:

Gen-Xers lost about half of their wealth between 2007 and 2010, according to a Pew Economic Mobility analysis last year. Even before the housing collapse, they were having trouble keeping up with their parents in building assets, according to Pew, which defines Generation X as people born between 1966 and 1975.

 

“Gen-Xers are the least financially secure and the most likely to experience downward mobility in retirement,” the Pew analysis found last year.

 

The bursting of the dot-com bubble, which culminated in a 67 percent drop in the Nasdaq Composite Index (CCMP) from 2000 to 2002, was a particularly severe blow to Gen-Xers just starting their careers. While most didn’t directly own stocks, the economy slipped into recession and unemployment for 25- to 34-year-olds in 2003 hit its highest level in almost a decade.

Then it is the impact of record amounts of student loans pushing Gen-Xers even further down:

Student loans also slowed asset-building, said Signe-Mary McKernan, an economist at the Washington-based Urban Institute.

 

Under the impact of successive booms and busts, many Xers have struggled to afford a family or keep their home, much less do better than their parents,” Neil Howe, co-author with William Strauss of books on generations in American history, said at a May 8 research symposium in St. Louis. “Then came the Great Recession, which hit Xers much harder.”

 

The median income for 35- to 44-year-olds dropped 9.1 percent in the three years ended in 2010, according to the Federal Reserve’s Survey of Consumer Finances. Incomes of those age 35 or less, including the youngest Gen-Xers and Millennials, fell 10.5 percent.

 

While incomes of 35- to 44-year-olds deteriorated less than those of younger Americans, their net worth slumped by 54 percent, the most for any age group, as the value of stock holdings and properties declined. The median net worth of those younger than 35 declined 25 percent.

Then, it was pure greed: everyone rushed during the last housing bubble to buy up McMansions and everyone knows how that ended (hint: the same way the current bubble will end). Greed that destroyed everyone who succumbed to temptation and did not get a government bailout:

The group aged 35 to 44 fared badly in part because its members had taken on debt to buy real estate at just the wrong moment, said William Emmons, senior economic adviser at the St. Louis Fed’s Center for Household Financial Stability. Those born from 1978 to 1983, straddling the line between Gen-Xers and Millennials, are at “ground zero” as the age group hurt most severely by the housing crisis, he said.

 

Generation X was hit the hardest,” Emmons said. “For those families themselves, there’s limited time to make up some of those losses. For the economy overall, families that are struggling pretty hard to make up their savings aren’t spending as much, so that’s a drag.”

 

The median value of mortgages and home-equity loans held by 35- to 44-year-olds climbed to $131,000 in 2007 from $85,000 in 1995, based on Survey of Consumer Finances data.

Then it was tumbling real estate valuations, and the switch from owning to renting:

Property values tumbled during the real-estate crash. For 35- to 44-year-old homeowners, the median value of a primary residence dropped 21 percent to $170,000 in 2010 from $215,000 three years earlier.

 

As more decided to rent rather than own after the downturn, they’ve missed the subsequent rebound in home prices. About 60.7 percent of 35- to 44-year-olds owned a home in the first quarter 2014, down from 68.3 percent in the first quarter 2007, according to Census data.

 

Gen-Xers were also slammed by the slump in stocks. The 35-to 44-year-old age group’s median value of financial assets, including stocks and bonds, dropped 47 percent to $14,500 in 2010 from 2007. The hit to their portfolios was more than 5 percentage points bigger than for any other age group.

 

The value of the group’s directly held stock portfolios lost 36 percent, Fed data show. While those who stayed invested in stocks may have recouped losses as the S&P 500 Index (SPX) has rallied to new highs, only 12 percent directly held equities in 2010, compared with a 17 percent share three years earlier.

Most importantly, it is the job market: which as everyone who is actually in it, knows is nowhere near as rosy the unicorns and rainbows the BLS and the US department of truth would like to make it seem.

What’s more, limited improvement in the labor market is making it more difficult to rebuild assets. “It looks pretty bad,” said Amir Sufi, an economist at the University of Chicago’s Booth School of Business. “If you don’t have income, you can’t build wealth.”

 

As of May, unemployment for 35- to 44-year-olds was 1.8 percentage point higher than in the same month in 2007.

 

The plight of Gen-Xers also means less support for the economy as they limit spending and concentrate on building up nest eggs, Emmons said.

 

Matthew Kraft, out of work for about a year, is watching fewer movies at the theater and dining out less. The 39-year-old former public relations manager in New York has filled out more than 110 applications to find something other than entry-level work.

 

“If this keeps going on for another four or five months, it’s going to start to hurt,” said Kraft, whose wife works at a hedge fund. “We have been living off of her income and dipping into our savings.”

But the scariest part will be when Gen-X starts retiring for one simple reason: nobody has anywhere near the funds they will need for provide for retirement, even if one assumes that the US welfare system is still solvent in a decade or so.

Generation X has already forfeited valuable years of interest compounding by failing to accrue savings early, said Alicia Munnell, the director of the Center for Retirement Research at Boston College and former research director at the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston.

 

“Gen-Xers are going to live longer than the current generation of retirees, and the major source of retirement income is going to be smaller,” Munnell said. After 40, if “you’ve put this off, you really have to save at a mind-boggling rate to accumulate enough to retire.”

 

As for Johnson, a mother of a 17-year-old daughter and a 12-year-old son, she’s more concerned about day-to-day living than about preparing for retirement.

That's ok Mrs. Johnson, you are in the same boat as all "developed" nations: the only concern is how to keep the lie of solvency going day-to-day rather than addressing, let alone tackling, the reality of the terminal dilemma: a systemic collapse, or hyperinflation, that is just beyond the horizon.

And now, buy stawks because... the recovery!

 

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Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:09 | 4842119 ACP
ACP's picture

Yeah, and the millenials have negative net worth.

I see a pattern.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:27 | 4842187 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Belly button lint counts as wealth?

Who knew?

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:03 | 4842296 max2205
max2205's picture

Bo ho,

1955 here. had to survive 1980 res, 1985 inflation, high mortgage interest, 1988 housing bust, 1987 crash, some labor shit in the 90's, 2001 crash, 2008 crash, 2009 hosing bust, and depression since.......

Life sucks then you die

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:29 | 4842376 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Yes, we get to hold the bag. Gen X already knew this. Thank you ZH for pointing it out to Boomers who will ignore it promptly.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:35 | 4842394 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Yes, but they have the richness of an obsession with all of those great social networks and a personal audio and photographic record generator and tracking device so that the government knows everything about them in order to secure them.. um, I mean keep them secure..

Oh wait..

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:44 | 4842425 MeMadMax
MeMadMax's picture

ik The baby boomers have bludgeoned this country with an axe:

First, they destroyed the high moral system.

Next, they brought in as many drugs as they could shove into their pipes and noses.

Next, they contributed zip to the economy as they just wonderd thru the job force.

Next, they started the welfare bullshit, (setting up the kids to fail too).

Then they started getting positions of power, fucking up the system within.

Finally, now that their farts are the only thing of value, they are destroying the healthcare system since they didn't save a single penny for retirement or anything...

 

I honestly hope they "filter out" as soon as possible so us 90's brats can hopefully fix something...

 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 20:02 | 4842475 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Let's all blame each other and then complain about it.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 20:08 | 4842490 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

I propose getting drunk instead.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 23:13 | 4843278 -.-
-.-'s picture

*Cheers*

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 08:56 | 4844023 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

Yes!!

BTW loops holes, tax laws etc have ALSO changed radically since the early 1990's (at least in Australia) cutting many gen X out of options to retain and/or generate their business income to a growing extent. For eg tax rules changed 15yrs ago so if 80% of your income was from one client you have to now pay the higher employee tax rates not the lower business tax rates  - regardless of contract length or value i.e. you were deemed an employee overnight just when starting a business. These type of tactics have harvested and destroyed the real power of gen X as whole (some individuals sink others swim, but its been a progressive increase on constraining motivated risk takers with increasing preferential treatment to multinational businesses).

I for one could not always contract to two firms at once in a financial year given the demands of the firms, nature and variability of the contracts (even though they paid well at a company tax rate) especially after having to pay Public Liability and Workers Comp and other bullshit regulatory costs for work with no operational or financial risk.

So yes, gen X has had the recessions starting with the affects of the sky high interest rates in the late 80's (nice to graduate into that mess with a debt) and it just got trickier for those who worked towards getting their own businesses while trying to get out of the corporate career path chain which made a much more while back (eg I eventually got Company a car, discount bank loans, student fees paid, medical and pension top ups etc then the new Fringe Benefits Tax shut down most employer perks without wages going up in NET value).

So yes things have changed to tighten every dollar to the tax man unlike the early 90's when I started working during a recession and most my graduating class and the one before was looking for work!!

Its not just constant (manufactured) boom-bust cycles its also progressive taxation and regulations....its not about raging against boomers who are as docile as we Gen X arewithin most nations this tax and regulatory creep happening – it not national and its not accidental. It is f'king aggravating. 

 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 22:28 | 4843118 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

James, I can finally give you a greenie!

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 07:34 | 4843810 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

That is exactly the scenario they plan at Bilderberg.

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 04:30 | 4843650 BorisTheBlade
BorisTheBlade's picture

Divide and conquer was played nicely along racial, gender, sex orientation, political lines. Now it will be played as a divide between generations. Do people ever learn?Guess not.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 20:32 | 4842598 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

The Boomer generation is really a mystery to me. It has to be the most self-centered generation ever. My parents have always looked after one person and that is themselves. I understand their parents were messed up but still to this day they are completely obsessed with themselves only.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 21:06 | 4842743 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

I think this is simply because of sheer numbers. From birth until the last has died they have influence society by their movements. As a tail end boomer ( 53) I remember growing up with all the commercials geared to them as children and now ads are slanted to geriatrics. All modern farming was based on how to feed such a massive influx of children. I think this can cause some self centeredness when society must rearrange itself to see to your needs. It is simply hard to compete with this juggernaut.

It is sad your parents are so self absorbed. Their fault seems not to have rubbed off on to you.Though part of the Greatest Generation, my parents were as well and my brother and I suffered. Self centeredness seems to be quite common today in all age groups I'm afraid.

Miffed;-)

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 23:56 | 4843374 The_Dude
The_Dude's picture

Self centered mentality correlates nicely with reduced family size....imagine where we are heading.

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 01:12 | 4843499 PT
PT's picture

Re "sheer numbers":

Yes, what's that about democracies, and wolves and sheep voting for dinner again?

Mind you, I still see plenty of instances of politicians ignoring the will of the majority, including ignoring referendums.  However, the majority did manage to delay the introduction of a GST, but we never managed to stop it so perhaps the majority does have a little bit of voting power.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 22:32 | 4843139 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

My parents ('41 & '42) are super self absorbed and my grandparents even more so. 6 people, 2 generations and none of them boomers. This thread is off the rails.

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 07:54 | 4843834 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Seems like a simple explanation. They simply inherited it and continued the denial of the problem. Plenty of them in every generation I guess. The boomers seem to be the ones that entered the ponzi at just the right time.

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 01:01 | 4843483 PT
PT's picture

1.  "Wage restraint" from a Labor Prime Minister.
2.  The recession "we had to have".
3.  University fees.
4.  Real estate prices.

And regarding "Then, it was pure greed: everyone rushed during the last housing bubble to buy up McMansions and ..."

It was more than "greed".
In the first year that I made 40 grand (average weekly earnings at the time) the median price of housing went up by over 40 grand - from $400k to over $440k.  Ponzi Finance was being actively promoted (not quite the same as Ponzi scheme, Ponzi Finance as defined by Minsky - look it up).  That year I could have saved every single cent towards a deposit and still ended up worse off.  There was simply no way to keep up with the housing explosion without jumping on board.  (Luckily for me, procrastination won the day.) 
I take great offence to the idea that greed was driving up house prices.  Sure it was.  Greedy banksters and a few lucky rich people.  But the average yob simply could not keep up with wages alone.  If they didn't want to be homeless then they were forced to look for another way.  Exchanging labour for money was simply priced out of the market.  In fact it still is.

5.  Compulsory superannuation.

Sounds great when you say it fast.  But when investing is compulsory, you no longer have the option to pull money out when the returns are not there.  Also, If the economy worked fine before billions of extra cash went into the stock market, what are all those extra billions actually doing now?  Seriously, exactly what are all those extra billions actually doing?  Producing more widgets for us to buy?  Increasing dividends?  Pushing stock prices up?  Pushing real estate prices up?  Financing a larger proportion of unprofitable ventures - i.e. encouraging mis-allocation of capital?  Encouraging larger volumes of buying and selling and disappearing as "management fees"?  What are those billions actually doing?

Re "Not enough for retirement":

If the world has grown to cater for the baby boomers, then as they die off we should end up with excess productive capacity.  THIS SHOULD MEAN THAT NO-ONE HAS TO STARVE.  If the low population pre-boomer generation could feed the boomer generation, and don't forget that our technology has advanced since then, there is no reason why following generations should suffer.  Speaking of which, the pre-boomer generation paid to educate the boomers but the boomers did not pay to educate Generation X - even though the costs were proportionately less.  (Err, this refers to Australia.  We used to have free university.  I hear you guys in the US always had to pay, though it suddenly got more expensive after the boomers graduated).  But I digress.  The point is that we shouldn't have a retirement problem or a production problem, just a distribution problem.

Personally, I feel that if life was a 100 metre sprint, everyone else is at the 50 metre mark and I'm still at the starting line, trying to tie up my shoelaces.

But I do know of one Gen-Y guy who has gone from rags to riches.  Sure he worked long hours but so does everyone else.  He knows something the rest of us don't.  I often wonder if it has something to do with his dad being a banker.  Maybe he knows a thing or two about managing debt.  He also has a strange personality - even before he "made it", he was acting as if he owned the whole world and everyone was his personal slave.  Feel free to ignore those last 3 sentences if you wish - just my observations / opinions / biases, I might be wrong.  The best information is always hidden.

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 09:53 | 4844254 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

ah the recession we had to have.... being called an Aust banana republic and all; then the strange urge to float the dollar after a Kissinger visit, and to free our banking from restraint further more!!!!... then the subsequent vertical rise of household debt & property "values" that accelerated whatever the interest rate might "be" in accordance with almost universal international trends (cute coincidence); good thing everyone here thinks Gina Rinehart is a self made success and that the countless self made contractors who have folded under each political party in the last 4+ decades are losers.

So be a true blue Aussie and vote for either cheek of the the same Arse. (Same shit everywhere).

 

 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:39 | 4842410 ted41776
ted41776's picture

you sir are an optimist!

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:28 | 4842191 Cattender
Cattender's picture

i was born in 1965 so i'm Generation x i guess... i see most of the people i know struggling right now. regardless of their age... it's sad.. someday this period will be classified as the BEGINNING of the Greatest Depression IMHO

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:41 | 4842246 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

@Cattender: I'm a boomer...approaching expectancy. Would suggest you go to Youtube and watch George Carlin's "The American Dream." That'll 'splain it

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:10 | 4842317 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

I love that Carlin skit; it is very true.

I am in the same boat. But, I am slowly moving to a cash basis. I pay cash for everything and carry only a modest amount of debt. I have a foreclosure still pending due to Fannie Mae dragging ass for months now (property auctioned - they can't figure out what I owe). I am ready to get my lawyer invovled, hammer out a plan, and knock it out, but all I can do now is wait.

The problem most Gen X'ers have is the one I had; they are looking at life through the traditional lens of their parents and not the lens of "business", or "accounting", or "arithmetic". Once they do, they realize they walk away from the house, get an apartment, and have some cash left over and actually live better. There is the problem of the BK noose being significantly tightened, but the worst case is a clean slate in five years versus still treading water and the best case is walking away.

So what if I don't own a house. A car is a depreciating asset; I don't want a new one so mine are 10+ years old, but well maintained. If I need to move for work, I have a lease to worry about; I can just pack a go. And the way cities and states are run these days, I would much rather have the option to pack my shit than to be stuck with a huge tax liability and fearing the five year BK treadmill.

It took years for life to pound the lesson into my head, but it won't be forgotten before I am dead.

Regards,

Cooter

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:19 | 4842344 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

+1

I feel somewhat fortunate the crash happened when I was relatively young (I'm 36). I've used it as an opportunity to scale everything back as a form of long-term protest against the overbearing State and its corporate and financial masters.

The biggest "fuck you" to the system is to live as simply and as outside of it as possible.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:22 | 4842352 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

McMolotov    I feel somewhat fortunate the crash happened when I was relatively young (I'm 36).

----

You should feel fortunate if that blip woke you up because the crash hasn't happened yet.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:40 | 4842412 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

True dat!

Most people think the crash will be financial, but I am of the opinion the real crash is in energy production. If I live to old age, I will most certainly see that turd hit the fan.

Regards,

Cooter

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:41 | 4842415 gh0atrider
gh0atrider's picture

gh0atrider has a shitload more Bitcoins than his parents did at this age.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 21:50 | 4842954 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Why do you BitCoin zealots refer to yourselves in the third person?

Or are you a BitCoin zealot that everyone here is familiar with, but using a different name.

 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 22:40 | 4843177 gh0atrider
gh0atrider's picture

fonestar was killed because of his atrocious behaviour on this blog.  The fonestard() program immediately spawned gh0atrider.

gh0atrider = fonestar 2.0

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 00:13 | 4843391 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

You're like that nerd in HS who talked like a robot and referred to himself as something like the Sherminator.  I'm not going to tell you how lame that is but you really should consider taking a look at things to see if this is really who you want to be.

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 00:23 | 4843410 gh0atrider
gh0atrider's picture

gh0atrider, who is he?

gh0atrider is gh0atrider.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:51 | 4842430 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Crash was probably the wrong word to use. Maybe beginning of the end instead? I don't particularly see an actual cataclysmic crash happening anymore anyway; more of a slow grind. I've been waiting a while for "the big one," and every time I've thought it was just around the corner, we've simply sunk further into the abyss.

There's probably going to be hard landing at some point, but the ride down will suck just as much.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 20:37 | 4842619 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Yeap. Slowly bled dry. The future is Detroit. I can see little pieces of Detroit where I live and still they are building 500K and 600K housing developments. It really is getting more bonkers everyday.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:24 | 4842362 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

I try to deal in cash too, problem is the asshole banks don't want to give it up.  Ever go in and ask for $1,000 cash?  They look at you in horror.  Then they throw the usual BS "cash is bad because the police think you're a drug dealer".  Just plain stupidity.

They want you in their digital system, where they can track, trace, log, and tax.  Cash is the enemy.

 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:38 | 4842406 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

I have gotten SARs filed on me just for handling cash regarding my account. I am pretty sure the teller was just a dumb broad and the bank system made her complete it and was thus totally automatic. I am not sure what the limit was set at, but I suspect 2500 or 3000.

That said, I just do regular limit ATM withdrawls usually as a function of my paycycle (i.e. after payday I pull my limit in cash which holds me til next payday). If you shop around, you can find the lowest, fixed fee ATMs. If you pull 200 or or 300 or 400 at a fixed fee of a few bucks, it doesn't sting much.

While I do have credit cards, I keep their usage very minimal. I use them if I travel, buy airline tickets, and occasional online shopping. Amazon is probably my biggest sin, but shit I live in Alaska and there is a lot of crap just JUST CANT GET HERE. So, no option but to "suck it in" as Mr Munger likes to say.

So, they have me in the digital system but they don't know shit about what I do with most of my money not that it is all that exciting (groceries, sundries, fishing gear, beer, etc).

Regards,

Cooter

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 20:01 | 4842464 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 20:11 | 4842500 Jugdish787
Jugdish787's picture

I am gen x too, born in 71. All I can say is this whole experience, over the last 5 or 6 years, has completely changed me, in what I see as a good way. Back then my main concerns were how big my tv was, the car I drove and watching sports...some of you here have really opened my eyes over the years with lessons and insight. 10 years ago if you asked about eating fresh fruits / veggies from the garden I have in my back yard I would have said you were crazy. Today I am picking cucumbers, peas and beans with tons of other things on the way, enjoying every minute of it. My life has been simplified and I am grateful. Whatever happens, so be it.

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 22:07 | 4847151 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Congrates on how you have responded to this mess.   It will suit you well for the upcoming new mess.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 20:03 | 4842479 optimator
optimator's picture

And they have the nerve to ask, "Why are you withdrawing this money?".  I've answered, "You never asked why I was depositing it?" and "Your interest rate will put me two tax brackets higher".  I do remember to wave at the "Financial Planners" office on my way out -- you know, the one the teller directs you to.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 20:38 | 4842627 duo
duo's picture

That's wierd, because a month ago I had to go to the bank to get a cashier's check, waited in line for half an hour, and every single person ahead of me walked out with at least $800, $1200 was the average (the teller would count it so everyone could see).

The next day, the guy in front of me took out $8200, no questions asked.  BofA, far North Dallas.

The underground cash economy is huge.  We're just not part of it.

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 07:08 | 4843774 PT
PT's picture

It's up to you ( and us ) to educate them.  We lead, they follow (otherwise they will lead and you will follow).  I laugh at them.  "Get with the times.  I use 3 grand just to pay a few bills.  Do you know that the biggest note your ATM spits out is the same fifty dollar note from 20 years ago?  Why should I trust the computers?  I've got Windows 8.  Would you trust Windows 8???"

Many times in my twenties I forgot that I was an adult.  "Oh, that's right, I'm an adult now.  I have to solve that problem."  Sounds like you're in a similar position.  What happened to, "The customer is ALWAYS right"?  No, some banker drone dribbles some govt propaganda nonsense and we play along.  Fuck 'em.  Through political maneuvring they stole our wages that we earnt, before we can even touch it.

The cash-less economy will be forced upon us through bullshit legislation and inflation.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 23:53 | 4843371 G in FLA
G in FLA's picture

"It's a big club, and you ain't in it"

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:30 | 4842377 duo
duo's picture

I'm surprised the number isn't 90% or more of Gen Xers living worse then their parents.  Hell, the late boomers (baby busters) missed out on cheap real estate, but we had Reagan for president in our 20's.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:33 | 4842393 GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

"...someday this period will be classified as the BEGINNING of the Greatest Depression IMHO"

Either that or it will be known as the end of the cheap energy/easy living period for humankind. It'll depend on the perpect those folks who will be living at a much lower energy level at the time see it.

They may also classify it as the age of assholes since they would like to have the energy we burned up to build unsustainable cities in unsustainable locations, like deserts. Luckily, most of us here and now will likely be gone by then because this hatred between Boomers, Gen-Xers and Millenials will look like a nice game of checkers compared to what those folks might do to someone from this era.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:41 | 4842244 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

And it's going to be worse for the A.O. (Always On) generation, which is the highlighted purple crashing line.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:10 | 4842316 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Yep, I was born in '78, and this only confirmed what I already knew — that I'm screwed.

I really feel horrible for my kids, though. They're only 13, 11, and 9, and this place will eventually be (at best) a few steps above third-world status in their lifetimes. They sure as hell don't deserve that shit.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:25 | 4842365 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Mac, for what it's worth, we (who have fathered no children as of yet) will fight to the death for yours, because we might just yet....

 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:44 | 4842424 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

[Strangelove's plan for post-nuclear war survival involves living underground with a 10:1 female-to-male ratio]

General "Buck" Turgidson: Doctor, you mentioned the ratio of ten women to each man. Now, wouldn't that necessitate the abandonment of the so-called monogamous sexual relationship, I mean, as far as men were concerned?

Dr. Strangelove: Regrettably, yes. But it is, you know, a sacrifice required for the future of the human race. I hasten to add that since each man will be required to do prodigious... service along these lines, the women will have to be selected for their sexual characteristics which will have to be of a highly stimulating nature.

Ambassador de Sadesky: I must confess, you have an astonishingly good idea there, Doctor.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 21:13 | 4842773 wrs1
wrs1's picture

Why did you have kids?  Seriously, if I had known what I know now, I would have stopped after the first one back in 1980.  I am a boomer and I raised five kids who define the word self-centered.  In fact, the whole fucking "do it for the kids", "it takes a village to raise a kid", and on and on generation is hobbled by the idea that someone else should still be tying their shoes and making lunch for them.  Fuck that, I got the hell away from my parents and took care of myself ASAP.  All this whining and moaning and complaining is coming from a bunch of people who define self centered and who can't see their own mistakes because they are busy asking for do overs and looking for someone else to blame their problems on.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 21:50 | 4842951 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

you raised 5 kids and they define the word self centered? So you blame yourself right? 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 23:16 | 4843287 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Fonz, I don't know how anyone raises kids with any of their own personal values at all. Parenting has been removed by the education system and the medias. It was bad enough for me in the sixties and seventies. I can't imagine how they would do it now. You would have to live in a cave.

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 07:30 | 4843801 PT
PT's picture

They said, "Don't have enough?  Then shut up and work harder!"
And you LISTENED.  And then you wondered why you didn't have time to instill your values in your kids.
But I explain it better here:

 4843731

Maybe we will have to work less, let the banks repossess our homes, and spend the saved time educating the kids.  Face it.  We've already lost the houses anyway.

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 00:32 | 4843429 yogibear
yogibear's picture

"They're only 13, 11, and 9, and this place will eventually be (at best) a few steps above third-world status in their lifetimes. They sure as hell don't deserve that shit."

That's right. All of Washington DC has too much trash occupying the Senate, Congress and the White House. This country was great until it sold out to special interest outside the US. The country replaced manufacturing and jobs with financialization and globalization.  

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 03:28 | 4843623 Cryogenic
Cryogenic's picture

First-world living standards are not feasible on a global basis so I guess reduced living standards takes getting used to if you approach it with an open mind like yourself.

Third-world standards really sucks and should not be allowed for anybody.

Is there a standard for second-world aka the future normal or will global standards shift to third world or even worse?

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:09 | 4842120 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

If you like your household, you can oh forget it, release the MRAPs!!! (maniacal laughter)

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:12 | 4842124 Surging Chaos
Surging Chaos's picture

Prosperity was robbed from the future in an attempt to make people more prosperous in the here and now. That "future" has now arrived. It's as simple as that.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:12 | 4842128 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Get a job you goddamn hippy !   I never asked for a goddamn handout, I worked my entire goddamn life and never asked for goddamn thing.

And get a goddamn haircut, you look like a goddamn GIRL! 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:16 | 4842147 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Yes, my hair IS too goddamn long, but I pity the poor girl that would look like me!

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:15 | 4842139 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Exactly who robbed from the future? I'm pretty sure I have been at work the whole time. I can't vouch for my wife though.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:21 | 4842164 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Greenspan and minions, of course.

When debt is money, what else could possibly happen?

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:31 | 4842203 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

It was Dr. Alangele!!  But he had beautiful hair.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:27 | 4842371 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Oldwood Exactly who robbed from the future? I'm pretty sure I have been at work the whole time. I can't vouch for my wife though. 

------

NotApplicable   Greenspan and minions, of course.

When debt is money, what else could possibly happen?

----

Let us not forget the incumbents that were constantly voted in and the continued annual budget deficits that add to the national debt of over 18 trillion (not including over 100 trillion in promised liabilities).

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 22:18 | 4843077 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

That is the game that has been going on for years. This is exactly what debt is, especially consumer debt and government debt. Spent on consumption, not productive investments. And financialization is attempting to sell future earnings today. The future is being killed by debt. Its not a generational thing. It is an advancing logarithmic progression. The consumption of yet to be earned income requires reaching further and further into the future for more given the complete abandonment of productive pursuits.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:26 | 4842183 surf0766
surf0766's picture

Geeee I wonder what generation stole it all? hmmmmmmmmmmm

 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:23 | 4842358 I need Another Beer
I need Another Beer's picture

My generation.   BABY BOOMERS

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 20:40 | 4842631 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Admission is the first step to peace.

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 06:21 | 4843731 PT
PT's picture

The first clue has been blaring away on the radio for the last 40 years:

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/harrychapin/catsinthecradle.html

"You didn't work hard enough!" ...  PEOPLE LISTENED!!!!!  They worked harder, they worked longer hours, then they sent the wife to work longer hours.

I hate to drag this link up again since I've been repeating it a lot recently, but for those who missed it, here we go again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A

The generations were separated, demonized, blamed ... and where did that lead?

SKINs.  Spend the Kids Inheritance Now.  Reverse mortgages.  Why spoil the brats?  They didn't earn it.  Just hope you die before the money runs out!  He he he ...

So instead of your brats inheriting the fruits of your labour, the banksters will inherit the fruits of your labour and the banksters' brats will inherit the fruits of your brats' labour.

I suggest that if your kids really are that bad then you should leave your inheritance to your grandkids.  Grandkids useless too?  Perhaps you need to spend a little time educating them.
Remember that "Cat's In The Cradle" was actually a best case scenario - the kid and his parents decent people and still loved each other.

Who inherits your stuff?  Your kids or your bankster's kids?  You decide.

Your kids don't deserve anything?  The banksters laugh at you.  You worked hard but you didn't have a clue what you should be fighting for.  They won.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:26 | 4842370 I need Another Beer
I need Another Beer's picture

My generation.   BABY BOOMERS

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:06 | 4842308 Deathrips
Deathrips's picture

Interesting,

 

And what gave the older generations the rights to sign their kids to the company store, do the kids not have a choice?

The fact that future generations own the national debt is rather silly.

In order to make a loan one must have the funds to loan out. The fed had no funds, it was created for the people (supposedly).

Younger generations never signed for that debt. So there is no contract.

The squid would love for people to think that they are helping future generations by paying off usurious debt. No money paid goes to the national debt just to the owners of the feds pockets.

 

Never fear...I HAVE A SOLUTION!!!!

 

Long Debt Default and Guillotines!!!

 

I have no obligation to pay anything back i didnt sign for. Do you?

 

RIPS

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:19 | 4842343 sleigher
sleigher's picture

Younger generations never signed for that debt. So there is no contract.

 

Precisely.  There is no contract and federal law is admiralty law.  Ever since the 1930's Erie railroad ecision. 

Now to get everyone in the country to understand that basic fact and act on it.  Things will certainly get worse before they get better.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 22:20 | 4843084 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Uh, a significant portion of the current 17 trillion debt has been added since the "ute" of America voted for hope and change. Its a pretty big stretch to hang that on boomers.

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 10:26 | 4844420 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

A smaller but similar upward tick happening in other nations.... boomers or bankers?????

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:36 | 4842399 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Deathrips    Younger generations never signed for that debt. So there is no contract.

----

Unfortunately you logic does not work in the current system. I never signed a contract regarding many laws. Yet, I am forced to abide by them by a government that has a monopoly on enforcement.

Stop paying your taxes including your property taxes. Perhaps you don't know that the IRS has changed its regulations to allow the IRS to go after family members of old debts held by parents. Obligation is made by the ones holding the guns. Government is nothing more then a mafia. Laws are there to protect them and constrain you. No contract needed.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:47 | 4842428 PeeramidIdeologies
PeeramidIdeologies's picture

Property taxes need to stop. Like right now. There is no way ANYONE has the right to tax you on your personal property. Never mind forcibly remove you from said property whether you refuse or are unable to pay. It simply goes beyond any moral or ethical grounds.

How has someone not set a legal precedent against that bullshit?? I'm curious if anyone has ever fought against paying property tax and won?
I plan on giving it a go myself.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:51 | 4842438 Deathrips
Deathrips's picture

Not that I disagree with your position, but there is a difference between contract law and judicial law.

 

IF we are forced to perform on the promises of our parents, there is no freedom.

 

Not that I think there is freedom. People must realize that this is another division tactic and the solution is simple.

 

We didnt sign for it, we arent paying for it.

 

RIPS

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 20:24 | 4842559 sleigher
sleigher's picture

UCC 1-308.  Reserve your rights without prejudice.  One cannot be compelled to perform under invisible contracts.  If they cannot show a contract under admiralty jurisiction then how can you be forced to perform under said contract?  I mean besides the use of a gun...

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 23:52 | 4843372 Deathrips
Deathrips's picture

So about all those guns that US people arent "special" enough to own...

 

Its not the boomers ...its the system.

 

FUCK EM.

 

RIPS

 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 21:56 | 4842988 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Research 'Odious Debt'

Unconscionable Contract is worth a look too.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:12 | 4842129 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

And how many have already spent their parents wealth?

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:01 | 4842287 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Not hard when the Benny bux are rolling...

 

If it's like my grandparents the state stole their wealth through eminent domain. 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:15 | 4842141 Rainman
Rainman's picture

I see the day when a FICO of 50 is considered prime rate.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:40 | 4842242 1stepcloser
1stepcloser's picture

don't you get a 450 just for signing your name?   Like the SAT or sum shit!

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:15 | 4842145 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

< shocker >, the baby boomers have been fucking the kids over for quite a while.

 

Please, same as it ever was.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:18 | 4842151 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

The Gen X'ers will be just fine as long as they remember to kill themselves as soon as they are either unable to work or no longer needed at their job. 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:22 | 4842167 Ignorance is bliss
Ignorance is bliss's picture

Exactly...

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:35 | 4842221 JohnG
JohnG's picture

It's the Smith & Wesson retirement plan.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:24 | 4842169 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

I love my parents and will take good care of them (some gen Xs saw the writing on the wall) but all I hear from them is basically why can't I continue to maintain this luxurious (calorie intensive) lifestyle without doing any more work.  They have millions, but things like a plane just keep getting so damn expensive to simply maintain.

The short answer is simple...

There simply is no political or monetary solution to scarcity.  Like my grandfather, my generation will see another world war (the only eventual outcome/solution).

hedge accordingly.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:31 | 4842206 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

+500 for fonz [above]

<< The Gen X'ers will be just fine as long as they remember to kill themselves as soon as they are either unable to work or no longer needed at their job. >>

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:19 | 4842158 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Sure, just tons of boomers moving in and sucking off their children, Sure there is.....not.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:22 | 4842166 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Whether it's boomer moving in with their children, or children moving in with the boomers is going to become irrelevant. It's going to become a necessity for both. 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:26 | 4842181 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Right, let me guess, you really think they haven't borrowed anything from future generations.

I have a few balance sheets you need to look at fucknut.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:34 | 4842217 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Show me.

I have paid into every government taxation scheme imagined.

Over $220k into social security alone. Means testing will likely block me from receiving anything.

I pay $50k a year in property taxes and have no children.

Income tax, well that's another thing entirely. Trust me I have paid and have received nothing but grief for it.

I own no stocks or bonds. I make no living from gambling. I build. I work. I ask for nothing but to be left alone.

So please, explain to me how I have borrowed from future generations.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:48 | 4842233 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Did you vote?

50k per year in property taxes and you haven't benefited from any government "investment" or "service"?

As a former ARMY AMEDD officer, I call bullshit on that one.

When the SNAP cards no longer work it sounds like my brothers in arms will make a killing providing you with security.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:08 | 4842313 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

What the fuck good does it do to fucking vote? How the fuck do you know which one of the lying, cheating, stealing, killing motherfuckers deserve your vote. Get fucking real! It doesn't make any difference!

Reagan/Bush spent us into oblivion to "defend us". Do you fucking think Carter and his buddy Brzezinski would have done better? What about Bush vs. Clinton? How would the other motherfucker have been better? Bush vs. Gore? Maybe there wouldn't have been a 9/11 and Iraq + Afghanistan. I don't know. But I did know Gore was a lying motherfucker too. Bush vs Kerry? Yep Kerry would have been just a fine, fucking dandy, just like that SOB is as Secy. of State. Obama vs. motherfuckers McCain (there's a real SOB) and Romney? I'd rather vote for Attila the Hun than ANY of them.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:40 | 4842240 pitz
pitz's picture

I call 'bullshit' on the whole idea that you don't own any stocks (ie: equity in a business) or bonds (ie: cash). 

And if you really have all your money in real estate, you've benefitted enormously from government debt expansion.  Got any Section 8 tenants?  Any public "servants" living in your housing units?  A $50k/year nut for property taxes tells me that you've benefitted enormously by "borrowing from future generations". 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 22:31 | 4843131 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Crawl out of your bubble. I build furniture for a living. I have five employees after thirty years. I pay property taxes on my home and my shop and every tool in it. How do you calculate my borrowing from future generations? I get nothing but the roads I drive on, just like you. The police won't even come to my shop on burglar alarms unless I pay them. I have worked hard to save and PAY for what I own and am taxed for the privilege. I do not own stocks or bonds meaning I do not invest with the den of fucking thieves so many here refer to as the "market". I suppose because I have chosen to work and save rather than coast on my ass, I'm depriving future generations. Typical liberal bullshit. If someone has its because someone else does not. Bullshit. I guess we all just need to live the liberal utopian dream where we all live in a cardboard shack, so no one has to feel inferior or cheated. Weak, very weak.

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 10:40 | 4844487 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

Well said. Kudos.

IMO. Debt driven assholes are not boomers or X'rs.

Boomers I know gave me my eithic of work, save and take very small debt.

Discourse in this boomer blame is missing international trends i.e. something else is a miss and a good thing to look at is banking vs our Dad's - a quadrillion in derivatives has fuck all to do with "boomers" lets refocus.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:55 | 4842276 Peak Finance
Peak Finance's picture

Fucking rearded old fucks

THE MONEY IS GONE. IT"S FUCKING GONE. IT"S Spent, they (your government) spent ALL OF IT, and they spent another 17 - 170 trillion additional depending on who does the math.  

And YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER.

You really believed Money grew on trees like the chicago MMT guys were telling you? You really never took the time to understand what Nixon closing the gold window really meant? Really believed in endless growth and endless wealth? 

Maybe you were not paying attention? Maybe your just a dumb fuck that went allong with it? Now that it's too late and the money's gone you fucking wake-up and wonder where your retirement is? 

You guys abused, neglected, and now robbed all of your fucking children and grandchildren. Either intentionally, or through inaction. 

Watching you old fucks starve is going to be one of my favorite post-collapse pastimes. You all deserve it...

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:13 | 4842321 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

And all these fucking idiots STILL want the biggest, most powerful, most expensive military the planet has ever known -- BIGGER than all the other militaries on Earth fucking combined!

More generals, that's we need. They'll kill all these fucking spenders and REDUCE our taxes. We'll all be better then! Maybe not.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 20:51 | 4842678 nailgunnin4you
nailgunnin4you's picture

I pay $50k a year in property taxes and have no children.

 

Heh, too funny old boy, you got him there. Young people never have to pay 50k a year property tax... hell, most of them will never have to pay property taxes at all!

 

Ahhh, the convoluted logic of the mainstream news watching rentier boomer. If it's not asians, muslims, hispanics, blacks effnics etc, the other political party, left wingers/right wingers, progressives/conservatives, communists (no aversion to fascists strangely), cyclists, gays, poor people, indoor hat wearers, women... then it's definitely the younger generation's fault. What is their fault? I don't know but I just watched some TV and I'm PISSED OFF!!

 

I pity flops like oldwood whose ego is so large and based solely on the amount of material possessions they own that the very contention they have more than they deserve comparatively speaking must be fought no matter the overwhelming logic and evidence. Non-accumulation is death, me me me me I worked hard STFU. Hey gramps, you know that 37 year old Indian dude who keeled over the other day and died (of old age!) while breaking big rocks into small rocks at the quarry, his job since he was four, he worked hard too, what fucking of it?

 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 22:37 | 4843163 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

So if you don't care about material things why are you whining here? You retards are complaining about being robbed, about how unfair your life is as you can't have what you think you deserve or what your parents had, yet you want to tell me because I worked to have more I'm shallow or obsessed  by material possessions. What a worthless fuck you are. Enjoy your quality of life and quit worrying about mine. I'm paying for what i want, you should try the same instead of focusing on envy or sour grapes. I don't owe you shit.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 23:42 | 4843337 nailgunnin4you
nailgunnin4you's picture

I like how the possibility that I could have been speaking for the less fortunate, and not myself, did not occur to you heh, the notion that I may practice what I preach, simple living, sharing amongst one another (as if we were in this together!), is absolutely absurd to you isn't it? Impossible right? Why would someone who doesn't own a TV, car, who rents a tiny room in a boarding house so derelict that the slumlord owner is forced to accept ice junkie schizophrenics whose rent is paid for by the gov; why would that person give away more than 10 times what they spend on themselves in a year, or spend more time volunteering at charities than working. Don't believe me? I expect that, ravenous greed is how this system continues, you have been brainwashed into believing that people like me don't exist, and that people like Warren Buffett and Steve Jobs are a positive in this world, job creators, trickled on economics etc.

 

At the end of the day oldwood, your ego needs to believe that your 'Igotminejack' mentality is universal and righteous, reality be damned. You need to believe that everyone is out for themselves only so you can then excuse yourself for 'the norm'. At the end of the day your argument is simply 'it is what it is', and I agree. The only difference is, I have a problem with that regardless of how lucky I am compared to the 5 or 6 billion poorer than I, you don't.

 

So please wiseoldman, enlighten me, because in my 26 or so years on this whizzing rock I have not figured it out myself. How can a human, with empathy (look it up I'll wait), contribute positively to society - assuming that was more important to someone than the trimmings of a successful furniture company - without spending the majority of their time and money slaving away for the boss, the gov and the bankers just so they can eat tonight? 

 

 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 23:49 | 4843359 cape_royds
cape_royds's picture

+ 1

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:16 | 4842146 GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

I've also noticed a trend that will add to this disparity. The parents of boomers left houses, savings, property and other wealth to their boomer kids. Boomers, on the other hand, seem intent on spending everything they can before they die and feel no compulsion to leave anything for their kids. Not all boomers of course, but I have run into enough of them to make me lose respect for the majority of boomers.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:26 | 4842179 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Not only that, I've watched them brag about it.

"I made my own way, and so can they!"

Never once stopping to realize they were merely born at the right time to get a bigger cut of the loot (or not have it blatantly stolen).

History is filled with hard-workers who never had a chance at prosperity.

"Work your fingers to the bone. What do you get? Boney fingers!"

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:45 | 4842254 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Generalities rule here. Why is it that we see record numbers of people working well past typical retirement age? Is it because they lost their savings in the casino? Or were they just dumb asses standing behind the door when all of the "loot" was being handed out.

There are plenty of thieves to go around and given the percentage of boomers I'm sure we have our share, but take a break on the generalities. You can bet when Jamie Dimon is dead and gone there will be another just like him to take his place.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:50 | 4842266 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I agree these debates become way to general. There are plenty of boomers who slugged it out and still do. There are plenty of Gen X'ers who have cushy boomer type jobs. The most successful self made person I have ever run into is a millenial. But we need to generalize to make sure we spew hatred and jealousy at each other over circumstances that were pretty much beyond our control. 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 21:46 | 4842940 nailgunnin4you
nailgunnin4you's picture

Not only that, I've watched them brag about it.

 

You can add my parents to the "SKI set". It's not selfish the TV told them they deserve it. Besides, isn't everything wrong with the world today the fault of young people anyway? They expect everything, the inheritance we got, the free education we got, the affordable housing we got, liveable wage jobs we got, food, it never ends with them just me me me. 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2020899/Meet-new-SKI-set-Thats...

https://www.facebook.com/pages/SKI-Spending-the-Kids-Inheritance/8258527...

 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:28 | 4842193 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Older generations typically had a lot more kids so when estates were handed down, things could get pretty diluted pretty quick. Now days there is seldom even two kids to share in an estate. Plus, consider education. When I was going to school, tuition was relatively small and housing wasn't a lot either. Today, boomers are trying to cover ridiculous costs for not only their kids but grand kids to boot. Prices are through the roof for taxes and there is no interest income, and trust me, most boomers were not executives at GE with big pensions. Most people I know my age have no pension other than what they have saved. Boomers have given their kids everything, including in many cases the best education they could buy, and now they are supposed to provide for their children's future beyond adulthood as well? There is no doubt that society has progressed further into the ME syndrome, but I see nothing in younger generations to suggest they are any less, and likely worse still.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:33 | 4842202 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

You act like the SNAP babies don't matter.  Liabilities motherfucker...

Many of us GenXers worked our way through the schooling/college we needed.  Why, the salaries could cover the cost of a decent education.

Take a look at those wages and costs now.

Personally, I think we should shut off all the welfare programs (including corporate welfare).

"Full faith and credit"

tick tock...

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:38 | 4842232 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

What the fuck are you talking about? What do I have to do with SNAP babies? Do you think I have voted for any of this shit? Do you think I should have gone on a shooting rampage in protest "the revolution starts now!"?

Take care of your own fucknuts.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:43 | 4842238 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

You state that people are not having large familes, bullshit.  That's a completely false statement.  You are implying that there are no liabilities that might be significant in terms of risk etc.

The population is not shrinking asshat and your implications are completely bullshit.  If you "want to be left alone" I suggest you shut the fuck up.  if you want to take the time to come out from under your fucking "leave me alone rock" and make stupid fucking comments be prepared to get punched in the fucking face.  Stupid cunt.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:07 | 4842311 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Birth rates are up primarily in Hispanic demographics. Hardly the boomer generation. My grandparents, mother side had six kids, father side had four. Subsequently my generation averaged two children. It doesn't take a physicist to figure out that families of the boomer generation were smaller than those preceding them, and upper and middle class families have seen an even smaller count, many not having children at all in more recent generations. If you want to argue, explain what you are arguing about. What fucking liabilities are you suggesting my generation has imposed? What risk? The population is not shrinking but that has nothing to do with boomers, it has to do with stupid fucking liberal agendas wanting to swamp us with illiterate third worlders that are willing to work for peanuts, forcing Americans out of jobs we are too good for.

As for being left alone, I was referring to the government. You, I can handle.

But thanks for your thoughtful response.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:14 | 4842327 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Would gladly take care of my own, and would be able to do it if I were not being forced to pay taxes and SS fines to keep your generation kicking and taking care of their own. 

 

I can't support all of you assholes and remain sane, especially when half of your generation generally talks so much shit to me after I've done so much to make their livelihood possible.

 

I have God given right to be pissed off with how you shit-stains have treated my generation and me personally. It's even worse when seeing you come in here and pretend that none of it happened. Who voted to send my ass to Afghanistan? Who was it that supported the wars in the first place? Who supported the system before I was born and never complained until recently? It was all of your generation's fault. If we are going to walk around here and talk about taking responsibility, then it's about time the Boomers start admitting that they fucked up, and they fucked up so bad that they screwed the next 3 generations out of ever having anything different. 

I am not the only Vet that feels this way either. 

 

The entitlement mentality of the Boomers is the most disgusting thing I have ever seen humans do, and I have had people of my own family treat me like I owed them something, while they told me to pay those taxes and work hard for that SS so they can keep going, because they "earned" it. Complete and utter BS, no one has earned the right to enslave another like this, and it's fucking disgusting that you people think you have. 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:38 | 4842401 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

I feel confident in guaranteeing you that I will never draw the benefits I have paid in. Not in real dollars or inflated ones. Further, I doubt you are paying anymore taxes than I am and most of the debt we have seen our government accumulate has occurred in the last five years and I'm pretty sure Obama and the democrats didn't rely on us boomers to get elected. Everyone knows that social security and medicare/caid are broke, even the republicans are pushing means testing which will pretty much eliminate your entitled rich boomers. And in case you have forgotten, boomers were up to their nuts in Nam, no volunteering there, strictly the draft, so I'm not sure what you are complaining about regarding current wars with a full volunteer military. I'm sorry, I don't know you, maybe you have been royally fucked, I don't know. But you definitely have no problem figuring out who to blame and it is everyone else but yourself.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 21:24 | 4842835 wrs1
wrs1's picture

you definitely have no problem figuring out who to blame and it is everyone else but yourself.

 

The hallmark of that generation, along with do overs.


Tue, 06/10/2014 - 22:10 | 4843044 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Your generation (If you are a boomer) knew about this crap before I was even born. 

This is not some childish subjective rant. It's the truth, you want to talk about people crying and here you are displaying the same exact psychosis I was talking about. You think you were fucking gifted and did all of that on your own, but here we are seeing the saddling of debt that your generation allowed to be created on their watch, and then gave themselves a raise in the 1970's when it was apparent that they could get away with it. 

Now here you are telling us that it was your own hard-work and not the being lucky to be born in the US at the top of the Empire building that had been going on for the previous 60 years. You lived off the plight of others and then have the balls to say that it was your own two hands. 

Your generation dropped the ball on this pretty hard, and it's up to future ones to fix it. That's some pretty deep cognitive dissonance you have going on there sir. 

 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:57 | 4842451 Croesus
Croesus's picture

@ NidStyles: 

I live around a whole bunch of Boomers, and I can definitely confirm that the entitlement mentality is alive and well with them. 

And our generation is being flushed down the toilet because of it. 

My own father (who is a Boomer) thinks the whole thing is disgusting, and that his generation is largely made-up of morons, if it's any consolation, point being not all Boomers share the same mind. 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 22:33 | 4843051 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Most of the ones I run into blame me for everything turning to shit. I was not even alive when any of this crap started. 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 23:49 | 4843358 nailgunnin4you
nailgunnin4you's picture

Take care of your own fucknuts.

 

Are corrupt bankers and politicians not taking care of their own? Your logic falls flat the minute you use it objectively and not only to justify your own selfish desires. Get over it dude, you're a cunt. Why you must come here and defend your abject greed rather than hitting the xanax to forget about your cuntiness like self-respecting assholes do is beyond me.

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 08:01 | 4843845 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

I come here for rational discussions, not name calling diatribes by a 26 year old, seen everything and know everything....I know, my delusion is deep. But thats OK. I thought my parents were full of shit until I hit 40 at least. Time reveals all.

Roll up another one and just relax.....

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:04 | 4842301 GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

I understand where you are coming from. I am a '61 boomer myself, although I completely fit into that 1961 - 1964 notch who want nothing to do with boomers (as outlined by Strauss and Howe). I agree, not all boomers were CEOs and many of my boomer friends don't fit into the greedy self-centered stereotype of boomers.

I guess the point I was making is that boomers often see themselves as being the ones who kicked ass and had it all due to their own prowess, intelligence, hard work, etc..., instead of seeing themselves as lucky for being in the right place at the right time.

As for the kids of boomers who who want it all handed to them: who raised those kids with those values? I am willing to lay a good portion of that on our culture at large, but it was boomers in their prime years who led the culture down this path with their values. Boomers aren't to blame for all of it, as this "give me mine" attitude has been part of American culture for decades. However, they did learn how to hone and refine that attitude.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:20 | 4842342 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

I never wanted anything handed to me. All I ever wanted was an actual chance to do something good without having to deal with feeding this abomination of a government that only cares about it's weapons and making war.   

 

Your generation could have fixed this crap a long time ago, and it's sad, because so many of your generation knew this crap was going on already. 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:23 | 4842357 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

How?

I started a small business and have employed people doing real work, creative work, for over thirty years. What is it that you think I should have done? Assassinated someone?

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 22:32 | 4843070 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Yet here you are saying that I am too lazy, becasue I haven't started a business. I have but for example let's day I am one of the youth:

What in the hell am I going to do, run a McDonald's? Sell weapons? Become a used car salesman for those channel stuffed GM's? Work on Wall Street? Work for big Oil? Seriously, have you looked at the world your generation let get built up around it?

You want to talk about responsibility, why don't any of you start apologizing for leaving us this pile of shit mess? Sure, you are just now started seeing the mess in the past few years, but the signs were there 80 years ago that this crap could not go on.

Where were you when some one spoke out about this in the 70's? Barry Goldwater? What were you doing? Banging Mary Rottencrotch and her friend Rosey Palm?

I think your generation owe's some of us more than just an explaination. I'm still waiting for some of you to at least offer one why you never once thought about talking about this mess? Most of you ignore it and are go along get alongs... 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 23:02 | 4843246 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

I started my business with a skill saw and a van. Built it up slowly over my entire life. No loans other than to buy a car occasionally and my home. Just nickle and dime for years. Do you think you start a business like they do on TV? Go out a borrow a billion dollars and buy a jet? Endless hours and endless worry, and while I have been able to increase my income over the years it is still hard and can go down any day. My sales are half of what they were five years ago. I am getting no favors from any of this, and it is insulting to be grouped in with Warren or Jamie simply because I'm not living in a cardboard box. I know it hard and I know its harder than it likely ever has been, but the only thing that matters is to keep trying. I know the current theme is that you are a sucker if you bust your ass. I've been hearing that from my union buddies forever and I look where they are now. I hope they are not your heros.

I have no idea if you are lazy and I care not what you do for a living. My personal belief is that their is no ultimate freedom, but self employement is better than being an employee.

I suffered an educational disablility as I went to college and was fully indoctrinated into liberalism. What saved me was self employment. Reality comes rushing in when you don't have a boss to blame. The employee mentality is one step removed from the leftist mentality that nothing is your fault and nothing is your responsibility. If you don't make enough, it is because of your cheap ass boss, not your productivity and motivation. If you want better healthcare, thats your bosses fault as well. It just breeds a mentalilty of dependency and class envy.

There is a sickness that has been growing for more than a couple of generations, that we, individually, are not responsible for anything, not even, and especially our own circumstances. Until that changes we will spiral downward.

I have tried to be responsible for myself and treat others with respect.

There is a lot of hate here, and speaking from personal experience it produces nothing but more hate. Try and have a conversation that does not have personal attacks and you might be taken more seriously. If you respond to everyone as you have to me, I can see why you might have issues with your boomer friends and family. But of course it can go both ways and have no idea what you ar dealing with. Good luck to you.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:49 | 4842433 GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

I've done what I can my whole life to counter this crap you speak of. I've never gone the whole conspicuous consumption, McMansion route. Sorry I didn't have the knowledge or ability to turn the whole country around by myself.

As for going to war, first off, nobody drafted you to go. Second, I tried everything I could to tell everyone I knew at the time that the war in Afghanistan was unnecessary and the war in Iraq was a fabrication, especially the  whole "Saddam has WMDs" BS story. Here's a hint for you: people who do these things are made irrelevant and turned into outcasts by the sheople.

My comment about those wanting everything given to them was in response to those making that assertion above. I didn't make that claim.

One more hint: in some situations you might find that a scalpel works better than a shotgun, claymore or cluster bomb in that you don't kill everyone, including those who might be sympathetic to your cause.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 22:20 | 4843083 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

I want there to be an honest and open discussion between the generations. I want an explanation other than oh look Commies, or oh look Fascists. 

I want people to stop ignoring how they were coplacent and even willing enough to take part in this pile of crap. I'm open and honest about my mistakes. I take full responsibility for being an idiot. I'm tired of people blaming me for not doing something about this mess themselves, or even making the slightest effort to educate others. 

Wed, 06/11/2014 - 07:32 | 4843807 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

In 30 years things will be worse. What will you say to the younger generation who will accuse you of doing nothing or laying claim to their future earnings?

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 21:27 | 4842848 wrs1
wrs1's picture

Your generation could have fixed this crap a long time ago

 

This is like saying I didn't try to change the weather and therefore I am to blame for the bad weather.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 22:23 | 4843100 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

You're prefectly in control of what you do with your self and the things around you. It doesn't matter who you are, you can not externalize your lack of effort to an inanimate object, least of all how they behave within a system. 

 

I find you attempt to make light of the conversation an embarassment of enlightened or intelligent people. We all read the same damn articles on here, there's no excuse that you people allowed this crap to go on and get this bad. This stuff was going on well before the Gen Xer's were born.  

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:20 | 4842347 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

And there is no doubt that each subsequent generation will "hone" it even further, until consequences of our actions are brought to bear on those creating the problem. Boomers, as well as their parents, share responsibility in this mess, but I see no clear line of distinction in specific and arbitrary "generational" terminology. There are good and there are bad and all those in between. As a boomer of 1953, I have worked hard my entire life and still do, with substantial physical labor. I'm not asking for anything. I understand that social security is gone...poof... pissed away, and it ain't comin back. I'm just sick of the constant whining about some generation or even ethnic group, be it Jew, Black or Hispanic to blame. We are each living, thinking creatures who MUST take responsibilities for ourselves and even the circumstances we are in, be they our fault or not. We can't survive by sitting back whining about how we have been cheated by so and so. Learn and move on. This has been the great mistake of the black community. They bought into this theme of oppression, allowed people to categorize them as disadvantaged and then were stuck accepting handouts as a solution. Some saw the light. They pursued against being told they didn't have a chance and succeeded. Everyone is oppressed in some way, if not by your race or language, by how your hair is cut or what clothes you wear. There is always a reason to be oppressed and a reason to not try...and always a reason to be an asshole cursing anyone they don't agree with, as some here find the need.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:58 | 4842455 GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

Good points. Much of this problem is that nearly everyone alive in America right now has lived through the most incredibly prosperous times this planet has ever seen. We've also been spoiled because of it.

I personally believe the bulk of this decline is a direct correlation to the decline of cheap energy. I also believe cheap energy is never coming back either. Unfortunately, many scapegoats will be slaughtered during this transition.

The point I made about boomers doesn't mean I blame them for all problems, just that their conduct at this point is likely to have consequences.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 22:25 | 4843106 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

The past 40 years have not been that great unless you were of the privileged that are associated with the government largesse. 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 23:05 | 4843256 cape_royds
cape_royds's picture

I am an X'er/13th Gen member myself. I upvoted you.

Most members of the Boom generation are not directly to blame for the squandering of wealth which took place, unless you're convinced that somehow those people had control of their government, etc.

The Boomers got lied to, and got had, just as much as we X'ers have.

Lots of Boomers, esp. those working in the heavy industries, got fucked over big time when the bourgeoisie decided to go full retard globalist.

Aren't millions of Boomers now getting eaten alive by the medical-industrial complex?

Yeah, in terms of their education costs they were luckier than Gen X, and way luckier than Gen Y.

Yeah, the Boomers who could handle the double-digit interest rates could get their homes cheaper than the X'ers can, and get a bigger capital gain.

But let's save the blame for the fuckers in charge. No point blaming people because of the years of their birth.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:01 | 4842288 logicalman
logicalman's picture

I'm a 'boomer', I guess, born 1955.

My parents worked hard all their lives, saved for their old age and did their best to equip me for the world.

I've worked hard all my life, unfortunately divorce and child support made saving a tad more difficult, but I've tried to equip my kids to make it, whatever the world throws at them.

My parents had no debt.

I have no debt.

My kids have no debt.

We're the kind of folks get fucked over by the debt based system forced upon us.

At least we know where we stand.

 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 22:30 | 4843120 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

This is all I want, an open and honest discussion. 

Half the time the youth get accused of being lazy and I'm looking around at what opportunities there actually are. You either support this monsterous system or you live in poverty. That is not a reasonable choice for anyone with more than two braincells in firing order. No wonder drug abuse is so rampant. Reality sucks dick for most of them. 

 

Some of you should be aware that it's not their fault that they are in the positions that they are. A good portion of the responsibility lays at the feet of those that manipulated this system of fake wealth to their advantage to take real wealth from future generations. 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 23:36 | 4843335 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Do you not understand that by screaming at an entire generation with insults and condemnations, you are putting yourself in the position of losing all credibility? Everyone knows its bad...and getting worse, but if you want to see thing improve, it might be more productive to be more selective in your condemnations. There are lots of boomers that have worked hard, lived within their means and tried to do the right things. None of us are perfect and we ALL have been lied to but regardless of who and where we are, there is only one way to survive and that is bust your ass, keep you eyes open and be ready for any opportunity. None of us can change the system, we can only control ourselves...on a good day. You have to understand. We got here by being manipulated and lied to. This is not an excuse. Its a warning. They are lying harder and bigger than ever. They will continue to pit one group against another. Chaos is their power and our awareness is their Krypton.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:18 | 4842149 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

It's a Dog Eat Dog World by ??????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etKafmmkbwk (3:02)

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:20 | 4842157 Ignorance is bliss
Ignorance is bliss's picture

I am a Gen-Xer (46) and I'm already losing sleep over retirement. How can I beat inflation over the next 20 years? Then add an additional 20 years post retirement. Especially since I don't have an inflation adjusted underfunded pension that relies on tax payer largess. The Fed prints away my savings, the government taxes my income, inflation beats at the door, and the barbaric relics are being suppressed. WTF am I suppose to do? 

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:24 | 4842172 PeeramidIdeologies
PeeramidIdeologies's picture

Prepping is the new retirement! Survive in style ;)

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:29 | 4842197 surf0766
surf0766's picture

Come to the realization that you will work til you die. There will be nothing left when the leaches are done.

I became much happier once I realized that.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 19:47 | 4842427 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

I never had any expectation of retirement anyway.

My father and grandfather were carried out feet first from their businesses,

even though they could have retired years before.

It would drive me crazy not to work, but with variety, and for yourself..

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 22:03 | 4843018 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Making a living doing something you mostly enjoy makes retirement look a lot less attractive.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 23:14 | 4843282 cape_royds
cape_royds's picture

Same here. Once I realized that "Death is my Official Retirement Plan," I stopped being so angry with myself.

Besides, what is wrong with producing goods and services? I don't love my job, but I know that the people who produce are the reason why civilization exists. Nobody is more valuable than the proletarian, and nobody has more cause for pride.

I realized that this whole matter of wanting to own paper claims on other people's future production (which we call "retirement") was always wrong-headed. The rich investor class are just better-dressed members of the Free Shit Army.

I"m still a good saver (approx. 30% of gross, so I'm up there with the Japanese of yore in terms of my savings behaviour), but I no longer expect to "retire" at 55 and drive a Mega-Enthropy Motorhome for decades on end.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:46 | 4842198 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I'm 37 and I have found that the key to retirement planning is to not give a shit about it, and i do this for a living. I mean seriously, believing this system can go on one moar day is one thing, the thought that it can go on until I'm 70 is beyond comprehension. Remember what the Door's said about the future.

The baby boomers, and this is just the truth, are an anomoly. They are a quirk in history. They are a byproduct of the industrial revolution and the debt fueled binge that came afterward. It was a great 50 year(ish) run. Good for them. I feel bad for the ones who slugged it out and still are, and are watching their peers live the dream.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:31 | 4842204 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I believe "Drink MOAR!" is the only coherent answer.

I'm trying to create enough self-employment opportunities when those days come. Raising vegetables, goat landscaping and slinging code, all while turning my property into my retirement home.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 18:31 | 4842207 BruntFCA
BruntFCA's picture

NIce summary, a least you get it. I see tons of people just in some daze and not even thinking about it. There's going to be a big problem in about 20 years (probably SHTF before then anyway), most people don't even see it coming.

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