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New Jersey Threatens To Pull Teen From Home For "Non-Conforming Behavior"
Submitted by Mike Krieger of Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,
While this story is not new, I must have missed it back in April when it first broke and it is absolutely incredible. The reason I am posting on it today is because we have new information which turns an already shocking story into something far more terrifying.So let’s get into some background first.
This is the story of Ethan Chaplin, who back in April was twirling a pencil in his seventh grade classroom in Vernon, NJ. One of the class bullies saw an opportunity to be a jerk and yelled: “He’s making gun motions, send him to juvie.”
Rather than demonstrating any sort of common sense, the teacher apparently had a panic attack and reported him, which resulted in a two-day suspension. Here’s what Vernon Superintendent Charles Maranzano had to say about it:
“We’re responsible for their mental and physical health and safety and security. When a student misbehaves or displays actions that are non-conforming or don’t meet our expectations, it causes us some concerns.”
I guess I don’t understand what schools are like these days, but the classes I grew up in were filled to the brim with misbehavior to the extent that a twirling pencil would be seen as a positive indicator of student interaction. Somehow, we all survived.
As if that part of the story isn’t bizarre enough, Ethan wasn’t allowed to return to class until he underwent a psychological evaluation in which he was forced to strip and give blood samples that caused him to pass out (sounds a lot like how police in New Mexico force anal probes on citizens for no reason).
Amazingly, the saga manages to get even worse. Just today, we find out that New Jersey is threatening to take Ethan away from his father. Incredibly, the state is claiming that the prior psychological evaluation wasn’t sufficient and more testing needs to be done. Since his father Michael is pushing back, the loss of custodianship has been threatened. Absolutely insane.
Here’s a must watch short video from PIX11 News on the incident:
I suppose this is an example of that amazing “quality of life” Chris Christie keeps referring to…
This Huffington Post article from early April was the source of much of the information in this post.
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Big government nanny state coupled with moronic political correctness and health and safety lunacy means that the individual is now a unit which can only be: conforming or defective.
Defective human units need to be sanctioned and reprogrammed, including their "care-givers".
Orwell's timing was off... but he got the rest of it about right.
Orwell was an optimist...
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever."- Orwell
optimist might be a bit of a stretch...
Really couldn't he have picture the world with like swedish blondes all over the place instead as our future?
Anybody who has their kids in public schools is an irresponsible parent.
That sums it up perfectly.
Years ago a friend had a very close call with the O/T numb skull “authorities” and almost lost her kids and was looking at jail. The incident: while cooking Thanksgiving dinner the mom was moving a vat-o-potatoes from the stove to the sink when 4 year old daughter ran into the kitchen and plowed into mom. The boiling water spilled onto the little girl’s arm causing a severe burn. Mom & dad head off to emergency room where they are accused of child abuse. Fortunately, they had a house full of friends who were all interviewed by the cops to determine the story. After 2 weeks of hell the charges were dropped.
Very scary shit when the “authorities” hammer good people.
In the UK my friend and his wife who are devoted to their children had to explain in detail the circumstances how their 14 year old son sustained injuries in falling from a tree. It was only when seated in the hospital, at the mercy of similar numb-skull state-lings that they realized with horror that they might actually be accused of causing a deliberate injury and the risk they had just taken. They had unknowingly risked losing their son to foster-care in order to seek medical treatment for him!
The modern state is now seriously sick.
Schools basically tell kids that they can accuse their parents of abuse when parents are trying to get them to behave and hold them accountable. I've seen it happen.
It's rare for parents to actually do a good job at parenting - but if you do so you will find that you spend a good amount of time trying to keep schools from screwing them up. Bullies are never held accountable - which likely explains many of the school shootings - kids pushed too far who snap. THAT you never hear reported.
I've got a great kid who's at the top of his class - popular and friends with a wide range of groups. In middle school he was sent home WITH a broken arm two days after we had been in school complaining about the behavior of a bully. The kid responsible was never punished or held accountable - nor was the incompetent nurse who missed the broken arm. Un f'in believable.
But sadly the private schools often have WORSE kids - the ones actually thrown out of public schools or the spoiled kids of the wealthy who think they can do anything and get away with it (which history shows they can).
Seems to me that certain kinds of people are attempting to turn government into the biggest, most deranged bully -- or terrorist, depending on your vernacular.
Posted Elsewhere:
"
1) The taxes are not worth the value being returned.
I don't have a problem paying taxes, so long as they go to something worthwhile. I will end up paying around 33% - an entire 1/3rd of my income - in my 2013 tax return. Yes, I am getting a refund, but when I am paying tens of thousands of dollars and not getting the services I should receive for that investment in my country, celebrating the return of a few hundred dollars seems absurd.
Where is my benefit from my government for all of this? Do I have free healthcare? No. Do I have a world class education for my child? No. Do I have any kind of guaranteed income should I lose my job? No.
No, instead, I have a country which is the only one in the world to tax its overseas citizens. A country that bails out banks who prey on those who just want a home to raise a family when they become insolvent - but when it happens to me, and I short sell my home, the IRS is there, ready to tax me on "phantom income" - forgiven debt.
I have a country that spends billions on fighting wars for political gain, but does nothing when there actually is evidence of WMD use against others. A country that hemorrhages so much money on military spending, it must turn around and take loans against my child's future - her income - in order to continue to pay for programs we don't need.
2) I'm tired of people being surprised that I'm American because I have manners, common courtesy, and the ability to see the other side of issues.
Seriously, the number of people I meet who think Americans are rascal-riding land whales (like in the movie Wall-E) with handle-bar mounted machine guns, a sack of Big Macs in the front basket, a clinical addiction to NASCAR, and a passion for the modern day artist that is Jerry Springer - it's just too much. I've been introducing myself as Canadian because apparently I'm so polite, that's where they mostly assume I'm from.
3) The fact that none of this is ever going to change, regardless of what party is in charge, and the fact that the American government continues to shred the constitution a little more each year, until it doesn't even matter anymore.
You may not think of America as a police state, but it is. Nobody's going to come grab you in the middle of the night, unless you're reported as a terrorist of some kind. At that point, just forget about "police work" and get ready for the SWAT team.
Nobody is going to take your children way from you, unless Child Protective Services is called, and someone decides - for whatever reason - that it's "in the child's best interest" to be removed.
Nobody is ever going to interfere with your access to medicine, unless you're trying to get something that isn't ridiculously expensive from another country; in that case, get ready for being charged as a drug trafficker.
Nobody is going to freeze your bank accounts, passport, and other means of movement, unless the IRS believes you haven't given them enough money. Suddenly you have debt to prove isn't there, and it will all get "sorted out" at the blistering fast speed of government efficiency. Or you could just pay the amount they say and it all ends quickly.
4) The fact that the future for my child in the US is so dark.
All this debt, and it's going to fall on her and her children. She's broke, and she doesn't even know it yet. Disgusting.
Well, I count myself fortunate that I don't own a home in the US - it affords me the ability to even consider leaving it all behind. There's so much propaganda about how wonderful America is but, when you look at it without those rosy lenses on, what you really see is horrifying.
"
It's torturous to sit through a conversation with what they call themselves these days, "Patriots".
Zero sense of perspective and filled with so much BS that they are literally borderline imbeciles if not outright. These are people that can function normally with the amount of cognitive dissonance that they have going on in their head, so it's obvious that they are somewhat mentally there, just they are not seeing things for what they are. Like they are delusional, but functionally delusional.
The schools are just as disfunctional as the gvts.
I'm a public school official...and I'm here to help.
Where did you find these "Patriots" you speak of, Wally World parking lot? I feel the same about liberal internationalists, no perspective and could not be more ignorant of history than these "Patriots" of yours.. Stupidity is epidemic.
I don't have a problem paying taxes, so long as they go to something worthwhile.
------------------------------------
Useless to read beyond. Paying taxes bring something worthwhile: being acknowledged as a productive member of an 'american' middle class.
It tells it all.
You should have gone to a good lawyer and commenced legal actions against that school and any teachers involved. A broken arm caused by the actions of a bully is a forceable result of the the negligence of the school and its staff. Sue them for pain, suffering, humiliation,medical expenses, loss of future earnings potential etc etc. A 6 figure cost (legal costs and payout) will get the school to make sure that bully is expelled and punished. Also try and get assault charges against the bully.
Tell your kid to find the bully in a back alley and lay the bat to him until he's pulp. That stops the bully, and future bullies. Teach your kids how, and when to fight. Stop relying on others to protect you.
To put a twist on things: when i was caring for my geriatric Mother (alzheimers) i was ccharged with elder abuse when she was walking down our dirt road and was picked up by the polizei. Here in Canada, they have a Parent Protection Program. My motto is Fuck Social Workers.They may not carry guns but are just as sadistic as the polizei.
Most physicians are as big pieces of shit as the lawyers/politicians. My sister and brother-in-law are both physicians that did their residencies at Harvard hospitals (you can tell they both are Harvard men/women because they both wash their hands before they use the restroom instead of after...yet I digress) My sister-in-law is a proud libritard that has absolutley no common sense I know that is redundant. She is exactly the same as my cousin who is also a physician. Both are the exact type of doctor that you describe in your post above...one that had only seen the child once (no prior treatment or interaction with the family to determine a pattern of "accidents") would never listen to what the parents say happened becasue she knows she is smarter than everyone else in the entire freaking country, would call child services in a freaking New York minute so she could pat herself on the back and tell her Libritard doctor friends how she "did the right thing" and then never admit that she was wrong or apologize for the trouble that she had caused the family for not listening to the parents in the first place. Take a look at the Justina Pellentier case...moron doctors at one hospital emergency room alledging child abuse and a full on libritard Massachusetts piece of shit judge removing the girl from her family for almost a year.
(you can tell they both are Harvard men/women because they both wash their hands before they use the restroom instead of after...
I thought only Immigration Officers did that!
Same thing happened to a family friend. They used some traditional medicine to deal with a child's flu - one that involves putting vacuum jars on the back. PE teacher saw redness and police was called in. Was 2 days before the parents even got to see the kid - until it was confirmed that the redness was indeed a result of the flu treatment.
The kids - they're not yours. You sign them away pretty much the moment they're born. The birth certificate is the main document that transfers "ownership" to the state. They're just letting you share the cost of raising them.
Listen to Michael Badnarik's lecture on the Constitution, that can be found on youtube. It's 6 hours long, but is packed with information, including this subject. Worth every minute.
Personal Sovereignty is under attack from institutions, bureacracies and "experts" everywhere.
A cartel of authority, so to speak. This is why they denigrate "conspiracy"; or as I like to think of it, 'common sense' and 'independent thinking'.
Is Eric Cantor's fate teaches people any thing????
You got 534 to go before the lesson is learned.
Anybody who has their kids in public schools is an irresponsible parent.
what's the alternative?
I wish we could shut down the whole fucking school system and start all over again. We all be better off with NO school. Teach your own kids as best you can. Theyll turn out a lot better.
From what I gather, "Common Core Curriculum" ought to infuriate responsible American parents and guardians.
That has already started.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/fired-up-n-h-dad-arrested-schoo...
I got your Common Core right here.
I couldn't find the article that had an excerpt from it but it was straight up porn with throbbing and spurting.
Nice for the kiddies.
"What's the alternative?"
Really? There are lots of alternatives.
Homeschooling is the obvious one. There are tons of resources out there to help you do it.
Or private school. Or, hire a tutor. Or, if you can't afford that, get together with some like minded parents and share the cost. Or, start your own school, even. The amount of potential profit in a private school is absurd.
But that would require time, effort and a reprioritzation of precious financial resources away from my vices and addictions.
And the circle is complete: Vices and addictions cause kids.
The shackles of our slavery are formed one bureaucratic link at a time.
The psychologist, the principal, the teacher, the police officer, the court appointed evaluator, the innumerable clerks and bailiffs punching their card...too afraid to speak out...too afraid to lose the pension, the healthcare, the salary...too frightened to use their own hearts and to say "NO!".
And if they do...they are replaced by one, then another, then another...so many desperate for the job, the income, the "benefits" that they look the other way...they go along...they do as they are instructed...they ignore their conscience and soul to become a gear - a cog - a spring - a dial...rotating, ticking, unwinding or winding, spinning in the inhuman machine.
This entire farce of a society would fall apart overnight if people weren't so afraid...so afraid of losing nothing but shame and gaining their souls...but they cower...they hide...they perform and march...they check off the check boxes and go along...to get along...to get a pizza and watch a show...to buy the baubles...the toys...the whirligigs that entrance the passions of the unthinking child, the wayward brute, the lustful lecherous homunculus.
Dude how do you think the GDP"onzi" works? It's all about creating layers of inaccountability, fuck man Oceania wasn't built in a millenia
The reason these party apparatchiki don't say no is that most of them produce "nothing" but PC BS. None of these people could even produce a fart after a Boston Baked Bean Dinner.
Well it's good to know that if all else fails I will have the fart industry to fall back on..
Have you ever noticed how all of those people hide behind those labels and deny being human, as it would negate their ability to appear objective and informed to the masses. It's like they think they would appear less the expert, if it's revealed that they are truly human and filled with flaws like the rest of us...
As if they can't imagine or tolerate admitting that they could ever possibly be wrong.
Thanks for using the word soul. It is something that can not easily be defined, if at all, but represents what this life may be about.
We have all played the game you describe one time or another. I won't play it anymore.
I wasn't created to be a slave-bot to feed war mongers and military/corporate/.gov.
I was created free with a mind of my own. I intend on dying that way.
Well said, cp. Thank you.
Well written. Fear is the best ally of tyrants; it does most of the nasty work without moving a finger.
The fact that decent people are afraid of criminals and psychopaths demonstrates how deep we've sunk and how little we've learnt from history; the fact by itself is shocking. Overcoming fear is a crucial precondition to progress; the change of the system will then be just a side effect. Without this the people pave the way for total tyranny.
public school, private school, home schooling, playing hooky... it's all part of the abusement park we call 'society'.
"abusement park" - yoink! I'll buy that for a dollar
I am going to bump it up a notch. Regardless of where one sends their children to school, an irresponsbile parent is one who assumes strangers are going to teach their children.
I agree with the sentiment, but the "anyone's" in society are not created with equal opportunities. Many families out there are by necessity, 2 working parents. Also, every parent is (sadly) not a good educator or teacher. It does take some effort and skill to "reach" even your own children. It takes having a good relationship with the child/children to have the lines of communication open enough to be truly effective.
There are alternatives, such as Charter Schools, where legal. Private institutions if the finances are available.
But sadly, there are vast numbers of families out there where "home schooling" or private is out of reach or impracticable.
That said, those that have the ability and desire, typically do a great job at the home schooling. Some even do it for 1/2 day, where the parents focus on the "core" studies, but allow the child to go to school for extra-curricular or elective classes. Which also helps with their social behavior growth. Some who have only had home school, find themselves quite naive and unprepared in many ways once they finally are outside the home and on their own, for either higher education or work (or marriage)
Anyway, like I said, I agree with the sentiment...but I do not believe it's as black and white as you stated ;)
Regards
Buckaroo: "Anybody who has their kids in public schools is an irresponsible parent."
+1000
If you can't afford private school, home school. Anybody can afford that.
Not if there is only one parent, who must work. What do they do?
He did... for Emmanuel Goldstein and those at the top implementing The Theory and Practic of Oligarchical Collectivism.
"couldn't he have picture the world with like swedish blondes all over the place"
That was Huxley's Brave New World.
We actually have kind of a hybrid of the two, except in North Korea.
Ack!
- Bill the Cat
Regards,
Cooter
Try to get humor, won't you?
The State has one iron rule: "Logic is an enemy and truth is a menace"! "We don't fit the States formuli"!
-Rod Serling (The Obsolete Man)
Soon the State will render the people obsolete...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyoN9V9fCuk
Full Episode: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUi0M_JQWXE
Next up "room 101"...The State says: "You will do what is required of you"...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3U83QLoATU
What we're looking at here, is the progressive destruction of human freedom!
If things are allowed to get any stupider without massive, MASSIVE reaction from a critical mass of citizen, all will be lost within a generation...
That was LAST generation. The game's already over now. You're just seeing the consequences of what plays out, like matter falling in a black hole.
It's already past the event-horizon.
You can buy a couple of guns, thousands of rounds and kill a bunch of school kids......on any day of your choosing.
But you can't twirl a pencil in school.
WTF is wrong with US? Is America's education system going crazy? Taking a decent kid away from a parent. Is that even legal without having any major prior incident?
Is there any lawyer who can destroy this case on behalf of the parent or are they all pussies working for banks and the Govt?
"Is there any lawyer who can destroy this case on behalf of the parent or are they all pussies working for banks and the Govt?"
Well the prestige, fame, connections, money and bennies are SO much better when opting for being a gubbermint and bankster agent of the 'courts'. So yeah, they're all pretty much choosing the second option. The MASSIVE TYRANNICAL factor in this fucked up 'legal system' is the ability of the gubbermint (aka agent of the bankster interests) to use unlimited amounts of the peasantry's OWN forcibly-stolen tax dollars to prosecute, convict, and punish the slaves who step out of line. Meanwhile, said slaves must defend their very livelihoods, and even lives, out of their own meager pockets. And people wonder why the state has a 98% conviction rate.
Most lawyers will tell you (after a couple of beers when their guard is down) that your 'rights' have NOTHING to do with how a court case will play out.
Sure. All you need is enough cash to pay that lawyer who is "good" friends with the judge. Justice is for sale.
When the real future is going to be camp-indoctrinated children electrocuting their own parents for not being state-minions with a loving smile, you'll realize that boot is in fact a very cheery optimism.
When Orwell was alive there was no such thing as a taser and he didn't fictionally write about it either.
his genius grows as time passes.
and in the fifties and sixties we thought he was writing about stalin. how blind were we?
If you understand the various types of mindsets that make up our social world, you will know why mankind must not have government.
Or have bounties.
I can personally vouch for the fact that this mindset runs literally from coast to coast.
My wife enrolled our 2nd grader in an after school daycare program run by the school district.All well and good, except that they insisted that parents show I.D. to pick up "their" children.
the 1st time i got him, not one of the chunky drones asked for it so I signed him out and took him home. The 2nd time, a chunky supervisor named "Tiffany" asked to see I.D. - The subtle understanding that the State takes primacy over children's parents doesn't sit well with me so I turned to my son and asked him "Who am I?"..."You're my dad". We went home.
The 3rd time "Ms. Tiffany" was ready (as I knew she would be.... you don't get to be as old as I am in this day and age without learning how to read people and this lady was as stuffed full of bullshit as any hireling of the State tends to be these days. I'm reasonably sure its a requirement of employment). Any and every other parent would simply "comply" but my family's not built for "compliance" and part of me wanted my son to see the true nature of the country we now live in. I didn't intend to allow him to stay in that paid "program" anyway.
She asked for my I.D.
I asked to see hers saying, "How do I know you didn't kidnap this room full of kids?"
She waved a little laminated placard around her neck and I said, "I want to see California I.D." She said: "I don't have to show you that (as I knew she would) but you must show me ID before I let you take your son"
"Why"
"For the safety of the children"
I said: "the 1st time no one asked. Has that person been terminated for endangering the 'lives of the children'? The 2nd time I refused to show as you well know."
"Yes, I know, actually, it's been several times"(BS, but also establishing the FACT that she knew who I was; my son's father. She told my son to go in the back room. He refused.)
Another dad, a skinny asian fellow in silk shirt and tie, a middle-school school principal I found out, "another State-ling" reached up to put his hand on my shoulder. I raised my hand to ward it off. A large young sheeply mom with a crucifix around her neck (galling, as I'M a Christian) said: "Why don't you just do what they tell you?"
I said: "Let's go J." and ms. tiffany said. "I won't allow that"
She threatened to throw herself in front of my car If i tried to leave.
We left. She began yelling for people in the parking lot to call 911 (as I knew she would).
I've talked to my son in the past about amerika, how it's changed and why. I've told him that if the Principal, or the President, a cop or ANYONE said "Come to me" he is to stay with me unless I say otherwise because I love him and they don't.
I announced that I was calling 911 explaining that a staff member was not allowing me to pick up my son and so, we all waited for the Sherrifs Dept to show up. (no, i didn't think the word of a mere parent against the word of a State-ling would cut the same ice but...this was my de-escalation move...even though I was prepared, and half-expected, to go to jail over this) Out of the 1st car to arrive, as luck would have it, stepped a monstrous, momentously ignorant Latina Lesbian who looked like she was recruited straight out of an East L.A. gang.
She sent Jackson back into the classroom. Ms T smiled at this.
She REALLY didn't want to hear what I had to say. She wanted me to LISS-EN but 1st she had a comforting, arm patting chat with Ms. T. who had worked herself into such a heroic state of discomfiture that she was soon crying in a small circle with asia dad and drone mom.
Cop thing came back said Ms. Tiffany said I "almost" assaulted her. Her partner showed up, another latino guy. He would play "good cop". They said I was drunk. Gave me a field sobriety test...I have a lazy eye and couldn't follow the pen tip from left to right.
Ms T. loved this, watching from the window inside now.
It was all for show...for the sake of humiliation. They made me walk off campus. Said I was too drunk to drive. That my wife would have to come pick up our son. She came 20 minutes later and brushed passed the Lesbian who wanted to harrangue her about my "symptomology"
The guy cop did ask me: "you seem like a mellow guy. Why didn't you just show your ID?"
"You really want to know?
"Yea"
"Principle. In my family's hierarchy God comes first. Our family 2nd....the State? Last."
The next day after School I picked him up. Dozens and dozens of children and parents leaving school, chatting, running across the grass past the "If You See Something, Say Something" sign etc.
As usual, no one asked to see my, or anyone else's I.D.
you sound like a terrorist.
See you at camp.
Just curious.... just between you, me and the ZH fencepost. Would you have acted the same before life as you know it on ZH existed? I think ZH can bring out the best in us.
You're definitely spot on and awake!
Sadly, yes.
I picked it up from my dad who picked it up from his... It's this damned Scots blood.
One of the 1st words I ever learned was "bullshit"
you're fortunate. My Dad was through and through Statist (chief of police) and is only now letting on that he doesn't trust the system anymore. The system he swore to protect and defend and due to a polticial stint, in a way even helped shape.
TPTB screwed up 9/11 and made big mistakes during the GFC. The truth is out.
Ya know what's weird? BOTH my parents were LEO's.
But my mom was a good Christian who worked in Juvie with abused kids....dad grew pot in his backyard and was a Bircher
Dude, I followed your story when you posted the 'first episode,' prior to this latest one, and I was glad you didn't have to show id. This just makes me sad.
Much love to you and your kid though. Fucking bastards. They'll pay one day.
Welcome clan member. Meane Weil Speak Weil And Doe Weil, winks. Mine was cunt.
the dyke or mrs T must have been the down vote...
Yeah, I was just thinking that it was a podgy state-ling finger on the keyboard which did that.
Bananamerican's post should be a ZH article by itself. (First time I have thought that about a comment).
We teach all our kids a password. They know they aren't to leave with anyone other than us unless the password is given.
Plus 1 crilliien to the mostzillion power x forever plus infinity light years!
(Downvoter...Coward.
The bile smeared across your glass skin is wretched
You think like me. I am glad there are a few of us still around.
We pay the price but I think it is worth it.
IMO, the post above, Bananaamerican, is the reason the comment section of this site is one of the best reads out there.
Fantastic post.
Great stuff. Wish you were my neighbor.
I am a Sunday School teacher. I am responsible for a bunch of Grade 1 -3 year olds. I am horrible with faces. The church insurance depends on me getting kids signed in and signed out by parents. I'm pretty sure the insurance company doesn't really care if I do or if I don't sign kids out. But if there was an abuse alleged and the church was sued then I imagine the insurance company would be looking for reasons we were not compliant.
I don't consider myself a bad person for getting my kids signed in or out. I just want to understand why this is the stand you took?
You act in consideration of the costs....
So do I, but my costs are not measured in dollars....
#1 that's what normal people are supposed to do, take a stand against militant authority over-riding the proper natural order of family first
#2 if you can't tell faces of parents for the children you look after, you're no good at your job because that's a critical part of it. It just is. Not slighting you personally but the serious risk of the children is at stake if you can repeatedly meet these people then forget who they are.
Orwell's book was to serve as a warning, but has turned into inspiration for TPTB.
More like operations manuals. 1984 for the executive branch/security establishment, and Animal Farm for the political elite.
You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
Freedom is irrelevant.
...but resistance is relevant
You are excatly spot on correct.
Look at Finland which has the highest number of children taken from parents.
Reasons are often incredibly silly; they defy common sense.
Finland resembles DDR in many respect. If you want a scary example of what big government means, just take a look at this country.
I returned my military pass as I am not prepared to defend socialist tyranny.
All government, always, becomes big government nanny state. Do you understand? There is no such thing as a government that does not grow. Ever. At any time.
Agreed. Time to consider this. Or this.
ooh nice. thank you.
that first link will definitely be passed along. . .
I always ask the Pro-Big Gov types to name one Governmnet that has not abused its citizens and become tyrannical...
All I get is defelecting strawmen or crickets...................maybe someone here can name one?
Yes, the government with the perfect humans running it. Oh, wait there are no perfect humans, so....
Ok Nid,
I did'nt ask you to name a perfect gov.
Just name one lasting government structure that has not abused its citizens...all governments become tyrannical,
Unless you can name one thats has not?
I do not pretend to have all the answers, however in over 10000 yrs of history of failed governments, we continue to elect leadership to avoid the responsibility of governing ourselves. Easier to blame your leadership after they lead you into tyranny; easier than standing up and taking some responsibilty in our own communities I guess.
Human evolution is fuck'n slow......
The problem is, all of these idiot big .gov types think today is the day. Today we will have big BENEVOLENT government that will look out for the equality of all. Never mind the past 10k years, we are more civilized now. You shouldn't worry CCanuck. And these people are all big .gov brown-nosers. They think its all OK, because they have their nose shoved so far up .gov's ass, they can't see the forest for the trees.
Its time for less government, and more freedom and liberty.
I don't think they think at all.
Simple observation reveals mass lying, mass stealing and mass murdering, all done most effectivley by the Bankster financed and, therefore, controlled state.
In the end, I think they are too cowardly to admit to reality.
Government has to be a benevolent nanny or they might not **feel** good.
Delusion is the order of the day.
I know Ayn Rand fans that are this way, as well as establishment programmed democrats and republicans.
Evidence, logic, rationality, human history... none of it stands a chance compared to **feelings**.
Nicole Foss said, "humans are not rational creatures, they are rationalizing creatures."
She's spot on right, IMHO. They rationalize their comfort level.
It works... until it doesn't - then it gets really, really ugly.
I advocate agorism constantly, which solves that last problem about community.
Nothing man-made can ever be perfect.... so I fail to see how I'm expected to play your game here. I am merely stating a fact, there are no perfect governments, and there never will be, as the perfect government requires at the very least the perfect human, and that is statistically impossible. It will never happen, and has nothing to do with evolution, but everything to do with mathematical certainties. The data set is simply too large to avoid aberrations.
No one single human can gather enough data to make any system perfect, and if you were ever capable of doing so, you would like no longer be human (think omnipresence). Perfection is a dream that a few intelligent humans chase, and even more less intelligent humans assume they already have.
So either you're chasing it, or you're trying to force what you think is perfect on everyone else. I would rather chase it myself, and by doing so leaving my descendants in a better position than I started from. Whether or not I ever attain it doesn't matter, I want to keep heading towards it and get passed this primitive infighting that prevaids societies across the globe. There's no reason for it, and even less of reason that one human should assume roles of subjugation over another.
Again Nid, I never said perfect, you keep pushing this perfect thing???
Name a government, less than perfect, much less than perfect that has ever grown into anything but tyranny.
I am not chasing perfect, only looking for something that does not end the same way.
You know the definiton of insanity, doing something over, and over, and over hoping for different results.
Can you name a less than perfect Government that has not ended in tyranny?
Edit: The comment about evolution was not aimed at you specifically.. Its all of humanity that is very slow to evolve.
He already answered. Only a government run by perfect people doesn't end in tyranny. There are no perfect people. Thus, all governments have ended in tyranny.
Thus, all governments have ended in tyranny.
Thanks for the honest answer...so why do human continue to support gov. as it is currently structured, if it always fails?
The answer is incorrect. Any imperfect government can easily avoid ending in tyranny so long as those who are governed have superior firepower & are willing to use it any time on the government.
Forgive me for saying so, but that's kind of a stupid question CC. No, all organizations eventually devolve into self-preservation mode, forgetting almost entirely the reason(s) they organized to begin with. Tyranny is a symptom. If human beans are involved, the organization is doomed from the outset. Irony at its finest.
I know eh...Human beans are really stupid...tyranny is a symptom?
Stupid is as stupid does, I guess.
You see, you still think that what you think and vote matters. It doesn't. We are both human beans, CC. The difference being that I don't take offence at those beans who are less evolved. You are right about one thing- stupid is as stupid does.
Thanks for offering a possible solution.....
Agorism is a libertarian social philosophy that advocates creating a society in which all relations between people are voluntary exchanges by means of counter-economics, thus engaging in a manner with aspects of peaceful revolution. It was first proposed by libertarian philosopher Samuel Edward Konkin III in 1975, with contributions partly by J. Neil Schulman.[1]
I am sure its not perfect either, however it is different from the current gov structure that has always failed, no?
Why do humans refuse to stop with current systems that have a long history of failure is the point of my stupid question.
Thanks for the debate and re-enforcement that all govs end in tyranny due to imperfection of humans.
That's twice you've avoided the question.
It is not a valid question, which you play games with, "if there is a perfect government".
The actual question is if there is any government better than "we murder your children for fun" (eventually).
There isn't.
That's that.
The least dangerous government is one where the governed have superior fire-power at all times & are willing to use it frequently but honestly on the government. Anything less violent means a corrupt government that will, today or 100 years from now, murder children door to door for laughs and robbery.
What non-ZH fuck down voted Omega's statement that "All government, always, becomes big government nanny state..."?!?
MillionTeacherBonus_ ?
Schools need to adopt a "Zero Tolerance Policy." By this I mean all the teachers and administrators should be fired when they behave so idiotically.
All administrators should be fired. Period.
Not a "nanny state," but a thug state.
With a little investigation one will, I am sure, find that the psychological and blood testing vendors, at a minimum, have a sweet deal with the state and certain pols and crats.
It is ALWAYS about money and power. The "nanny" part is cover for their theft and murder.
I hope he's listing names.
"My guillotine is the best list keeper there is."
The whole "clear your name" is a trap designed to bring you in so they can find something. And if that doesn't work, more and more until they do find something.
As a parent, been there, done that.
You have to ignore them, completely, no matter the dire threats they make. And if they show up and try to kidnap your child (they won't, they are bullies and cowards), respond by refusing, do not cooperate. Sad, but that is the reality. They are bullies, trying to intimidate you. At the very least they will wring as much money out of you as they can through threats, etc, and nothing you do can ever satisfy them. Therefore, the only correct strategy is to refuse to play their game, never give them any ammunition and ignore them.
Yes, indeed, that is the attitude of the predators-that-be and their paid apologists.
-----
This reminds me of a scene in the movie "Serenity", where captain Malcolm Reynolds basically explains exactly this point, then assets, "I aim to misbehave".
All good individuals misbehave!
Land of the free!
LOL
Whoever told you that was your enemy
Know your enemy
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When is enough enough?
When is enough, enough?
When the first government was formed.
When the social nannies learn there is a price to pay for their bullying behaviour.
that kid was twirling a pencil and the teacher had a panic attack? wtf...
teachers are all programmed now to freak out if anything remotely referring to firearms is even whispered about... meanwhile LGBT sex education is mandatory. welcome to freedom.
No they're not.
Down vote all you want. I'm a teacher and guns are occasionally mentioned and discussed in class without anyone freaking out or the police being called. The poster's statement is obviously and demonstratably false.
One way or another, Xeno, this shit happens FAR TOO OFTEN TODAY. I remember reading about the girl who helped her mother move, and in doing so, had a BUTTER KNIFE, fall out into her car. She was the Valedectorian of her class, until that day. Someone spotted it in her car, which was on school grounds. That was about 15 years ago. I have heard other similar stories since then. All equally stupid, to anyone with an ounce of common sense.
Where it used to be 1 time in a million a teacher freaked out about guns, its now 1 time in 50. And thats the problem. All these losers want to hide behind "zero tolerance policies" because they don't want to make an adult decision.
you can't make a decision in a litigious society because you learn to cover your ass first so the lawyers can't eat your face......blame the lawyers and the insurance companies they represent if anything
The only people who sue school systems are the same Leftists who make the zero tolerance policies in response to the lawsuits. Statists. Don't blame all lawyers for what statists do.
Lawyers are the ultimate statists. They garner their wages from the abuses of the state itself.
LOL! at someone trying to say being lawyer is noble...
I didn't say being a lawyer is noble. But I'm not saying it's not noble. It can be noble or not noble.
Your first two sentences are stupid. No sense at all.
Being a lawyer is the definition of tyrant. You are "officers of the court". Therefore, your actions place the State above your client. Further, knowing the way the State uses the admiralty court system and liability code to cancel rights and lock citizens into invisible contracts and saying NOTHING makes you nothing more than scaly, slimey whores trading money and influence for liberty.
Every utterance from your computer is stupid.
Actually, we get lawsuits and threats of lawsuits from just as many libertarians with chips on their shoulders about public education than we do from the lefties. Maybe it's just the district I work in...
Teachers don't have any hand in establishing zero tolerance policies. At best, the policies are set by the school administrators working across the district then approved by the school board. If it wasn't for parents who sue at the drop of a hat for every little thing, such draconian measures wouldn't be necessary. If we go back to making "adult decisions" and not following the matrix as approved by the school board, and some little angel ends up being stabbed by a butter knife, his parents drop a 20 million dollar lawsuit on the district that they don't have the funds to fight in court.
teachers are all programmed to be state-lings but some break their programming and act with common sense and decency. Thank God for them.
Xeno,
His statement was not obviously or demonstrably false, any more than yours is obviously or demonstrably true.
It's obviously and demonstratably false because it's hyperbolic and hysterical, two things that are usually found on the other side of the gun debate. Do you think adopting this kind of nonsensical gibberish helps those of us who respect the 2nd Amendment or do you think it hurts? When you say, "All" and one person can provide a counter-example, the entire statement is proven false. Honestly, for as much as you guys hate public education, you sure could benefit from attending a school for a few years.
John 3:16.
Wife is a teacher and she lovers her revolver
AD
Mom was a teacher. She saw the writing on the wall and retired a couple of years early. Waaaay too much BS in the school system. I know a few other teachers who are retiring early in the next couple of years because they're sick of the school system. These are the teachers who actually enjoy passing knowledge on to students, mind you, not the fuckups. Our school system is royally fucked.
It's the same story in Canada. Someone close to me strove to do the right thing in a tough situation and was threatened with her career.
Kinda kinky as written.
Jus' sayin'...
These State actions are going to become more common and even more draconian. You and I, if we're honest, realize that the point of no return has passed. You and I also realize that in order to bring this quick-time march to open tyranny to a much needed head, parents when faced with these type of scenarios, will need to take individual actions to supply a attitude adjustment to the State.
anyone still sending their kids to State schools
isn't really paying attention.
---You and I, if we're honest, realize that the point of no return has passed.---
I saw this happening 15 years ago during my divorce and custody proceedings and I thought I was an anomaly. When I told friends about this, no one quite understood or believed me. My children deserved a normal upbrining, and not a parade of social workers, lawyers, courts, and phony shrinks looking to invent things. I am amazed every day, through the grace of GOD, they weren't harmed by these thugs pretending to "help them". What's happened since is everyone is realizing its common. With the people educated, push back has clearly begun and those bastards will back down when you raise against them.
In my opinion, we are going to see a Convention of the States in 2015. A widespread political revolt against the Federal Government is possible. All of these state-lings are fueled by endless money, which eventually one way or another is going to run out. So, not yet. Economic or political collapse or both is on the horizon.
Soundd nice. But the State has the bigger stick and the one with the bigger stick is *usually* the one supplying the attitude adjustment. It seems they want to make an example of this guy so that other individual who are considering taking action to supply a attitude adjustment to the State will change their mind and look out for #1. That's their bet, tough talkers will back down when it's their interests in the line of fire.
Soundd nice. But the State has the bigger stick and the one with the bigger stick is *usually* the one supplying the attitude adjustment. It seems they want to make an example of this guy so that other individual who are considering taking action to supply a attitude adjustment to the State will change their mind and look out for #1. That's their bet, tough talkers will back down when it's their interests in the line of fire.
Actually the state does not have the bigger stick: they are not the source of tax dollars nor are they the source of food supplies.
Cut that off & there's still a chance. All out, 100% banishment.
We have arrived at The oceanic society George Orwell wrote about.
This is a good example of what the whole country would turn into with that fat fuck Christie as president. Not that he has a chance getting nominated since TPTB want either the Clinton or Bush crime families to have another go at ruining what's left of the US.
Oh yes, Christie. Another big .gov statist republican. What a sorry excuse for a human being.
This is obviously GWB's fault.
Or possibly Osama bin Laden's.
Either way, they were all being controlled by the nefarious Commie-Nazi terrorist, Emmanuel Goldstein.
it's not all their fault but they certainly played their parts well.
not sure if the current buffoon will get as high marks when done.
What part did they play, pray tell?