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Convoys Of Russian Tanks Heading For Ukraine Border Ahead Of 2amET Deadline
As the 'negotiations' between Europe, Ukraine, and Russia were taking place this afternoon, technically unconfirmed reports of convoys of Russian military vehicles moving towards the Ukraine border were growing. As the 2amET gas-cut-off deadline looms, it appears Putin is mobilizing a significant force ahead of what will likely mean retaliatory actions by either Ukraine military forces or Ukraine militants. As InfoResist reports, up to 200 units are moving towards Ukraine from Kaluga and in the Rostov region, Russia.
Multiple sources also confirm the movement of a large convoy of military vehicles in the Rostiv region towards the border of Ukraine...
And a column of military equipment near Novoshahtinsk...
We are sure this move will be denigrated in the West as an act of aggression... since not only did the Russians decline to play by the West's rules and take a sizable haircut ($300 vs $500) on their already-delivered debt but are now moving military into place to protect its borders...
Keep your eye on the moving ball...
Ukraine's new president, according to The FT, is already asking for the west to imopose fresh sanctions on Russia.
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Start the week off with a bang?
Merger Monday. ..covedian
So what's the problem.? They pay or not, get gas or not, confusing. Why are the soldiers needed? The soldiers begonia pay for the gas or take it? Juju huh huh huh
I like their bagmen.........now that's what I call some real "muscle"
I will eat my ass and my hat if this is real. This is banker bullshit. The central banks want their money. Putin is a pawn just like the big Zero. Put[in] that in your matrix and smoke it when there is no war tomorrow.
I respect your cynicism but perhaps Putin really is off the reservation, and doesn't want to be a City of London bagman and bumboy.
Putin belongs to the same bankers. He's an oligarch. But I'm putting my mouth where my ass is. If I'm wrong, I'll eat it.
Russia has it's own banker oligachy, separate from that in the west. I think your compass isn't pointing true north on this one. That's an invasion force right there, not a border protection force.
You may end up being right. But you should also seriously consider that you could be wrong.
I could be wrong, and will eat my hat/ass if so. But I'm betting I'm right. What do you wager? Let me be specific. Horse face caves to the Russians tomorrow. IMF gets paid. Tanks stand down to avoid a "humanitarian crisis."
If it were an invasion force, it wouldn't be televised... You'd just get hit by the Mack truck, they wouldn't tell the "victim" it was coming. I'm with you on this one Rand, this is theatre.
I have no takers on my wager.
Rand, it's fun to watch you bash the politicians you admitted to previously voting for.
I do regret the Putin vote. Care to wager on my bet?
V the gurerilla economist did an interesting show on the subject recently. He believes that the same oligarchy and control structure is deeply embeded inside BRICS as well. Buying gold and silver is not going to get rid of these people, yes it will take down many mid-level billionaires but it will not get rid of the elite.
The guys who own the central banks own the mines and vast swaths of real estate. But we live in a demoractic rebublic. Not a Kingdom.
Moral of the story, you don’t want to owe the Russians $4 billion then piss them off. Not a good idea, ever.
Cripes,
Even I might have a hard time holding those guys off.
No cookies for these guys
And when it's all over, ain't nobody owns a fuckin thing.
Who are you?
If I told you, I would have to kill myself. Or something like that. Still no takers on my bet. Horse caves. 10:1 odds. It's a sucker bet because Horse is also owned by the same bankers.
No bet. Horseface is currently curled under his blankets in fetal position, waiting for Nuland/Kagan to call with instructions.
I'll bet you're a crossdressing slip and fall lawyer with a political agenda.
That's why my avatar is a child.
Guess you were just born ugly.
Guess you were just born.
Ok I'll stop. Sorry I couldn't help it when he asked who you were.
Turn any lesbos straight tonight?
Rand is right, this is all theatre for the absurd like Cockbanger. Bank contrived show of force, yes they maybe conflicting banks but in the end there's no money in this depleted ukranian debacle, just a debt that needs to be paid. Iraq......now that's ALL about the $$$$, that has real consequences to the banker oligarchs, if there's to be WOAR it's in Iraq.
Crisis: I;n down to my last ebeer!!
What a goofball.
Putin is owed. Putin gets paid.
Ukraine tries to say "fuck you" and makes a big push into the East.
Putin says "No...Fuck You" and pushes back.
IMF hands over money to keep Putin out.
Putin takes money and sets new perimeter around Break-away provinces.
Putin wins. Kerry EU/ Nato IMF eat shit.
Everybody likes a unified theory but sometimes the world doen't work that way.
Who are you?
________________________
Murphy, is that you?
Signed: an American.
I am not taking the bet because I think they will not cross over into the Ukraine either. I don't believe that Putin is a London controlled oligarch though. He is an oligarch but given what I know of greed and human nature it would be impossible to align them all, globally, into a monolithic block.
Bottom line is that west is likely to blink today and pay.
I agree that these convoys are for show in time for the deadline. Notice that the majority of those vehicles are parked and unoccupied, i.e., 'On Standby' (the soldiers nearby, presumably). This is a demonstration of willingness to protect Russian gas infrastructure, should the neo-Nazis attempt to seize it. Notice too the absence of opposition, and no communication out of London, Washington, Germany or elsewhere. Guess they're all in bed.
Sometimes Rand, a banana is just a banana...
Putin may have some Intel that Kiev is up to something & we don't know what it is.
I'm in the "Putin is off the reservation" camp... Which isn't to say there isn't a parallel system of oligarchs in Russia... there always is anywhere you go on this miserable planet
That might be true on this one. But remember, USSA pretty much told Saddam and the whole world what was going to happen both times and dumbass just sat there. Especially the second time when he didn't even have WMD. Went ahead and got his ass ousted anyway rather than appearing weak I guess.
You're probably right on this one. It's like 5 theatrical lies and someone is supposed to ad lib the 6th.
Saddam had to go on pretending he had deadly gas and WMD. If he didn't Iran would've rolled in and taken him. He had to choose. And he chose USA.
What do you mean, "pretending?"
Rumsfeld 'helped Iraq get chemical weapons'
Theater. Exactly.. I keep telling people, if you see it coming it's for your consumption, it's not for real.
You're almost certainly wrong, and the humanitarian crisis you speak of (targeting of civilians) won't end until the UK artillery is destroyed, which is probably what this is about.
Start marinating that hat, and remember, if it's not on Youtube it didn't happen.
I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromwell's_rule
Head of Russian Central Bank is Elvira Nabiullina, a Tatar
Longtime close trusted insider with Putin Administration
Putin gave the Rothschild's agents the boot when he took power. The first thing the last agent did when he was released to Switzeland was hand over his abrogated stock certificates over to them.
Putin is completely off the reservation. Which is why all those color revolutions were inflicted on Russian allies.
Roll the tanks Vlad!
Something tells me nationalism and faith trump banksters and oligarchs.
Putin may be just an oligarch, or perhaps he cares more about his nation and faith than our leaders.
It would serve the neo-Nazi's, the IMF, Wall Street, and Brussels right if they lost their shirts over this.
It looks like Putin is going to get this party started, now that the USSA amerikanski's are distracted by Iraq.
Putin is slow and deliberate. Everything our dear leader the pigeon is not. The master will soon call checkmate speaking Russian.
Why not? The Euros can see that Ofucktard can't even keep his own client states safe.
Repossession time.
All that expensive pipe and valving cannot stay. Tough business. Late fees and charges apply.
If Russia's strategic asset (pipeline) is attacked, Russia will be forced to defend that asset.
Will push come to shove?
They moved them because the Ukes moved 2 armored battalions towards the border earlier. The odds of a war breaking out this week are pretty darned high. Name your hot spot then load up on physical gold and SDS.
Party on Wayne.
Party on Garth.
This is all fake. These guys literally go to the same parties. People will die. No doubt. But not for the reasons they are saying.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Windsor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Somme
but again, how much do the explanations matter, to the dead?
Two whole battalions?
Yawn...wake me up when they start moving army groups.
I enjoy WWIII speculation as much as the next guy, but let's be realistic.
That looks like heavy armor to me. If true that's a "bigger than a normal battalion." By a lot.
Looks like the skirmishing campaign is about to end.
If "boots on the ground" are not an option then clearly their boots are.
Chicken Kiev time?
Nobody could wake you up with two by four
You are right. a tank batallion is 30 (Russia) to 45 tanks depending upon country.
A tank company (US) is typically 12 to 15 tanks, a tank batallion, three companies.
Here we go. Watch out for submarines down there.
2 battalions of outdated equipment, with little to no fuel, operated by inexperienced, part time, wannabe thugs.
They don't even have the ability to take down cities with civilian defense forces. It would be dubbed The Six Minute War.
If the Ukraine cuts the pipeline, there will be a new one driven through to Slovakia or Poland in short order. Merkel is not going to commit suicide. She said so, and I believe her for once.
I feel sorry for Merkel. She's stuck between a rock and a hard place. You sense high stakes behind closed doors. If Germany shifts east overtly, Europe will collapse outright, the EU and IMF will fold, western currencies will tank, and the psychopath warhawks will be a large step closer to seeing their dreams of mass destruction fulfilled. Merkel seems to be trying to procrastinate, maybe to buy time for new options to surface, hoping against hope that she will somehow keep her Germany and protect Europe from the worst of things to come.
You feel 'sorry' for her?
She,like another german from earlier decades, has the power to destroy Europe and kill millions. She must feel like a Goddess.
Merkel is on her way to Brazil for the World Cup. She is hidding and hoping this mess will sort itself out, just like horseface.
How convenient, world leaders head to south america at start WWIII.
A few things I know about Mutti -- having watched her advice politically, and seen how she handles things.
She has contingency plans in place for almost every scenario available. I am sure she has a deal worked out with Vlad already. (assuming he really has dropped the Bilderburger MIC)
"Listen Vlad, if shit gets real, and tanks and bullets start flying in all directions, we can either destroy one another -- or we can come out of this more powerful that ever. If you guys have learned anything from WWI and WWII -- its that taking Germany will destroy you. I can promise it would destroy you again. So you could temporarily gain a huge empire, just to have it ripped away from you as the USSA braces for a counter-attack and we all died -- or gain a materially larger on in perpetuity. In order to CMA I'll skwak and shriek about pound my fists on the table, but I will not allow any military strikes against advancing Russian forces stemming from Germany or Austria (because, you know, Wien still doesn't do anything without the nod from Berlin) so long as they stop at the 1937 boarders in Prussia. Another inch, may God be with you."
"So Angie, I get the Cold War empire back, save Western Poland and East Germany -- and you get back Prussia?"
"yup."
"deal."
I suppose you're right, but don't you sense a kind of helplessness when you watch her, like she's in over her head? I don't mean that lightly. It's like she's compromised somehow and very unhappy about it.
I think they have Angie'S feet to the fire on something. What it is -- no idea. She is playing along (like she did with Schröder) -- and will continue to do so until the times makes itsself available (like she did with Schröder) where she can have a little political coup de e'tat and then she'll be calling the shots. From what I understand -- she has a better relationship with Vlad than she does quite a few western leaders.
Mutti isn't out of cards yet -- and when the world does lose its mind (in the coming years) I imagine we'll see her play a very wall crafted, calculated, and prepaired hand. As she is a former East-German with Prussian roots -- I can tell you in the Eastern part of the country there is a certain nostalge for the "lost terrirtory." (This doesn't exist in the West of Germany -- as I know many former West Germans who would be perfectly happy if the wall was still up.) If she could get it back -- without looking like the devil, I imagine she would do it in a heartbeat.
Danke Haus! I appreciate your local knowledge. Hope you continue to browse ZH.
Bitte schön.
Local knowledge is an interesting term, but a map printed in 1947 (of which I have an original copy) sums up the West-Preußen mentality pretty well;
http://img.zvab.com/member/10825w/54912845.jpg
It translates "What we are not allowed to forget."
Even today, you have many companies named after former Prussian cities, for example:
http://www.danziger-immobilien.de/
http://www.koenigsberger-montagen.de/
----
I say this all to say -- that Putin wants the USSR back. I don't think this is even debateable at this point -- and to be fair, its collapse was a pretty horrible thing in many contexts. Other contexts it was quite good. Putin wanting it back though -- isn't something I can really blame him for.
If Angie is like every other former East-German that I know, getting back old Prussia isn't a matter of "if" but "when." The inherent problem is German expansion -- and the schreiking that would occur in London and Paris if it were to happen. That being said -- if German expansion occurs in order to contain an expaing Russia after a collapse of Poland and other Eastern European states (I figure its only a matter of time before Vald starts "returning fire" colored revolution style) the West would not only support it -- but encourage it.
She needs a situation/excuse where she can get on TV and say "In order to prevent the expansion of the Russian Federation, and for humantarian grounds in what was formally Poland I ask the Peoples of etc., etc., etc., etc., to vote on whether they wish to remain an independent state, or become a part of Germany."
I imagine those people, irrespective of how they feel about the situation, when faced with the decision -- Germany or Russia, will chose the former as opposed to the later. She just needs the ability to pass it off as her being the "good guy" and if Vlad can get back a good chunk of his old empire, and he has to be the "bad guy" to do it -- seems like the power players get what they want.
EDIT -- Oh, and Poland has a materially younger population than Germany does -- this demographics problem Germany has to address in the next 20 years could be solved pretty easily in this fashion.
Very interesting. I note that the next German election is 2017.
American and Canadian news coverage is handicapped severely by the absence of meaningful, contextualised, historical education. What tidbits of history we do get through "Social Studies" and popular acculturation are screened, compartmentalized, sanitized and propagandized for political correctness. So we literally live for the moment, because that is all we know. My awakening came after I left the public grade schools.
This Prussia business is wholly new to me, but as you say, it is clearly a deep part of the local ethos, so I spent some time looking at it. It's clear that Germans and Russians alike suffered grievously at the hands of their respective psychopaths.
The Rise and Fall of Prussia (Brief map animation c/o YouTube)
The Assault on East Prussia (Documentary about civilians fleeing Konigsburg in last days of WW2 c/o YouTube)
Kingdom of Prussia (Wiki)
Thank you again for the perspective. Rgds
Hi Haus I think the leverage may well be her Stasi past. I M Erika...look it up
IDK man, unless they have a video of her mowing down people at the Wall, the worst that could happen is she gets kicked out of Office, and immediately goes to work for Gazprom.
Whatever is holding her feet to the fire -- its about more than just a political career, but more or less a "How much do you like life" kinda question.
We're all in over our heads.
As in 1914.
I just hope Germany has learned its less from the past two ... erm ... encounters and decides to either sit it out, or not fight the Russians.
You're funny!
Now pray tell, why would Russia want to invade broke-ass-resource-depleted Eastern Europe shitholes?
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/06/john-bolton/did-vladimir-putin-call-breakup-ussr-greatest-geop/
For the same reason the West wants broke-ass-resource-depleted EAstern European shitholes -- to weaken their opponent.
John Bolton wouldn't skew the discourse towards US and Israel, would he?
US wants the broke-ass countries to join NATO and buy us made weapons with money borrowed from the IMF to defend themselves from non-existent Russian imperial designs.
Russia wants to sell oil and gas, which the entire world needs. So it does not have to invade anyone for that.
Of course it doesn't need to -- but it also needs a way to tieing (tying ?) down the West in other affairs. Could you imagine what would have happened in Moscow had all the energy, time, expense, etc., etc., that has gone into Ukraine, Syria, etc., etc., been focused on Russia instead? Just like us, they need buffer zones, they need people to purchase their weapons, and they need slave populations to do it without question.
I have not encountered evidence of Russia actively destabilising governments around the world nowhere near the scale done by the US.
People but Russian weapons because they are available, cheap and they work. They don't get Sergey Lavrov going around dishing out cookies and stirring up shit.
You and I agree here bud.
Russia has -- not yet -- begun to destabalize governments like the US does. My question is why, and for how much longer will they refrain? I think unlike the USSA, Russia doesn't go stirring up a hornet's nest without an exit strategy. They made that mistake once in Afghanistan and won't be repeating it (unlike the US's leadership).
However, when the time does present itself (probably will conincide with Lehman v 2.0) where Russia can go for the jugular without much push-back, I would be extremely surprised if they at least didn't try.
Because they are not resource depleted.
If they were resource depleted, 'americans' would not sniff around. They would stay away.
The only resource Natostan has that the US cares about are Debt Slaves.
Why would Europe collapse if they go East? Going with the energy flow is the smart move.
Their ace in the hole is the printing press.
Fuck Obama and his Fed. They don't need them.
Sometimes I think I know what you're saying and sometimes I think I agree. Not sure but this is one of them, I think.
Well if the Eurocrats ever took an economic course, they would know that WHO GOT THE SUPPLY GOT THE POWER... the demand side shuts the hell up and pays... or finds an alternative.
The West is so used to dealing in imaginary assets and prices, they forget how to deal with actual physical stuff that someone else actually HAS...
Russian Refinary explodes Monday. Not good.
http://rt.com/news/166124-russia-refinery-fire-disaster/
Hey DCRB, speaking of starting off the week with a 'bang', a Russian refinery in Siberia just had a massive explosion and fire.
Nothing to do with Mossacia, in spite of other explosions in Russia in recent months: munitions site, space rocket... Right?
"Russians decline to play by the West's rules and take a sizable haircut ($300 vs $500) on their already-delivered debt but are now moving military into place to protect its borders..."
Define "its". I have a feeling more borders are going to be shifting soon in that area.
pretty tough-looking bill collectors.
I guess late-night harassing telephone calls asking for their money didn't work.
Trouble is one can only get so much water from a stone or so much blood from a turnip.
That's the way all governments work - with guns held by paid henchmen.
how can this not be bullish?
"Eeez pre-planned military exorsize. You westerners allvays read so much into a column of our tanks stopped on zeee side of zeee road picking wild flowers and eating kasha." - RT
/////
lol...wut?
Those are NOT russian tanks?
Wow. Can Putin guarantee that only anti- Russian people of Ukraine will be killed by the bullets and tanks he sends in? Cause if one pro Russian person is killed by Russians it kinda of destroys the idea that he is doing it for the "people". Putin will just blame Nazis, the CIA or Mossad and what is so crazy he will get away with it.
You know when the USA uses military force to protect their hydrocarbon resources and distribution it is evil, when Putin does it he is hero.
Putin, el President for Life, is a man of the people for the people and only has the peoples best interest in mind when kills.
By US protecting "its" hydrocarbon resources by military means are you referring to?
A) Iraq
B) South Sudan
C) Lybia
D) all of the above
I cannot speak for others. But the difference seems pretty clear that what you call US protection of "its" hydrocarbon resources is called imperialism. What Russia is doing is exacly the opposite.
Oh I got lost again. Putin is good ---USA bad. Silly me. Why did Russia invade Afgahnistan? How many Russians were killed or maimed there?
Because Zbigniew Brzezinski lured them there with US secret operations. And answering your question, a lot less than in Iraq, even if you count the first, second and in-between saction periods peparately.
And before you bring up Chechnya, that was a US-masterminded-Saudi-backed-islamic insurrection to take the caucasus away from Russia.
US is on the wrong side of history. The quicker you accept that, and refuse to cooperate and provide fodder, the quicker we can start the post-empire era and rebuild.
Cheychnya has to be a different case. In the middle of high declarations of self determination right for people, it must be a different case.
but, but, but... there was referendum.
never mind the tanks on the streets.
Putin bad, US a 10 on the evilmeter.
Volume 11 now! Volume 11!
How is this a coherent response?
Hey fxrxexexdxoxmx
Yo, Ukie, you lost Crimea, Donetsk and Lugansk are leaving, your pensions are gone, your gas prices are going up, inflation is destroying your purchasing power, you are getting IMF'ed and you are controlled/owned by dual citizen Oligarchs, and you are worried about Putin?
I'll bet you thought throwing eggs at the Russian Embassy in Kiev was good foreign policy, LOL!
if you think about it...Embassy tantrum is really feeble...
but exposed more how evil compounds
including chickenshit UNSC vote...
Russia did not invade Afghanistan.
Russian Federation did not exist.
If you knew anything, you would have said Soviet..but then invasion is some excessive also
Soviet was already there, built infrastructure, schools.other
girls could go to school first time..were protected later many were killed by Fathers for attending
Soviet interest was security in regions. There was moderate government with reasonable leader..
He was murdered by really bad opposition...that brought Soviet response...
Outside meddling was ramped up, and since is hellhole...
btw former Afghan Commanders tell the Soviets were better soldiers.
"Afgantsy" Roderick Braitewaite
Agree with all your points except this one...
Outside meddling was ramped up, and since is hellhole...
Pretty sure it was a hellhole before the Soviets got there.
Was a hellhole before Alexander got there.
But hey, if they dig hellholes, I'm cool with that. They ain't giving me pointers on my drapes, ya know? They also haven't set up a FOB on the hill above my crib.
Having seen pictures of Kabul from the 1950s I can say it most certainly did not look like a hellhole then. One would guess that for most of Afghanistan's history it has been reasonably peaceful outside of the times of foreign meddling.
.
Russia did not invade Afghanistan. The USSR invaded Afghanistan. An intelligent person might want to learn the difference.
To presume that the Russians did not dominate the Soviet Union is blind at best.
There are no good guys here, not Putin, certainly not the banker oligarchs... but the poor will pay for this with blood, as usual.
To presume that the Russians did not dominate the Soviet Union is blind at best.
___________________________________________
Not only it was dominated by Russia, but the russians planned to use USSR as a framework to get rid of every other people living under USSR Russification as it was called.
small nation states, also national and cultural identity, was the enemy of the USSR and seems also to be the case with the socialist EU. russians were not the only culprits, but russification was the objective nevertheless.
last time i checked, russian federation is the legitimate successor of the soviet union
Putin is not good. Rather, he is not an idiot.
And that is the difference between Putin and Obama.
But Putin came to power following 8 years of that idiotic, corrupt whore and utterly embarrassing drunk Russian quota monkey Boris Yeltsin (whose drunk dancing videos rank up there with Barry's workout videos).
Now does the above statement make you optimistic, or scared as shit... for the future in the USSA?
Both. It will certainly go south - we are already circling the drain. OTOH, we are not a disarmed citizenry - we have some say in what we will endure.
dup.
"You know when the USA uses military force to protect their hydrocarbon resources and distribution it is evil,..."
Precisely why the US is a failed state. It thinks the rest of the world exists only to feed its addiction to oil and other resources. It's not "their hydrocarbon resources" fool! Those belong to other sovereign nations and if the US wants to pay for them fairly and squarely without interfering in their internal affairs and manipulating their elections then fine. But, you certainly did tell the truth on one count, that is the US military only exists to prop up the corporate interests which have hijacked the country.
Could not agree more. We invade countries to protect a supply of oil when in truth we really no longer need oil. Technology this country has is suppressed to continue the massive profit by oil sales. What a joke. Does this not make our troops mercenaries when we send them to protect resources that we really dont need, for the sake of profit?
Don't forget the poppy fields. They need protecting too... /s
get lost idiot
"Wow. Can Putin guarantee that only anti- Russian people of Ukraine will be killed by the bullets and tanks he sends in?"
A significant minority of ethnic Ukrainians live in the breakaway regions (or so we're told).
How many of these NON-COMBATANTS have already been killed by UK artillery fire?
Intentionally targeting civilians is a WAR CRIME.
There is ample evidence of this.
I look forward to the trials.
That doesn't make sense. You could extrapolate that and say if a single Russian soldier is killed he hasn't protected Russian people. I don't like Putin (don't confuse with Russia) but you need to make a coherent argument.
Baghdad airport burning. Guess..there will be no evacution through airport, right ?
https://twitter.com/asaaf0500/status/478345979217715200/photo/1
And ISIS/ISIL has manpads..
I think Obama still has the invoice for them on his desk somewhere.
I'm sure he'll get right on finding that after he finishes his weekend golf outing/house-hunting jaunt. Rumor has it he's getting contractor bids in Palm Springs for Wookie cages.
It won't get bad for them until the Burger King concession in the Green Zone shuts its doors.
If those dudes ever get to the green zone...
This is like Saigon, all over again.
"VC IN THE WIRE! VC IN THE WIRE!"
Worse; so many to evacuate and the insurgents have more ground-to-air firepower than the VC.
....... although I am highly suspicious this whole ISIS operation has the blessing of CFR/AIPAC, and I am by no means a fan of the terrorists of DC/Tel aviv/London or Brussels you would have to be an absolute ID10T to think that if the DC psychos want this stopped this will not be stopped. I just have a really really hard time believing entire divisions of the "Iraqi" armed forces just run away from a bunch of hilariously outgunned thugs without it all being all an act in a really tragic comedy.
And on the Manpads, how many coalition aircraft were downed in either xxxxx.stan or Iraq by MANPAD's or even the Iraqi AAA in 91 or 03? Countermeasures already baked in before the Yanks handed them out......
........ it's all bullshit folks all bullshit and it's bad for ya.....
Just look at the pictures of the ISIS vehicle convoys when they took Mosul. The only markings were on the hoods of the trucks (to be seen from above). The US has admitted to having drones in Iraq week prior to the beginning of the offensive. Why on earth would an army with no air power make their vehicles identifiable from the air?
Note: In those same convoy pictures you will not see their markings on the vertical surfaces of the vehicles - they were not readily identifiable from the ground, only from above.
PS- It is times like these that I'm glad I don't drive a Mercedes like Michael Hastings.
US Army found a helo shot down in Afghanistan had fragments of a Stinger in it. There was a serial number and it tracked back to a recent CIA depot checkout. The missiles were sent to Qatar or some other gulf state for distribution in Syria. Something like half of them are believed to have been rerouted to Afghanistan. The rest supposedly were actually sent to Syria. It isn't far from Syria to Iraq for an army that holds ajoining territory in both countries.
Wizard, If this really is Baghdad airport under some form of attack, and if ISIS is sporting modern manpads, well then. Some serious trouble is brewing. I checked the Main Stream Media cable news shows this morning. Washington is finger pointing at everyone and trying to lay the blame and keep their heads down. Obama is fucked, no matter what he does, he is fucked. Those calling for air strikes are the usual war mongers, when asked, they have no answers for what good it will do. They don't even know if there is a side in Iraq we should be on. It is a giant shit storm. We hung Saddam, and his ghost is back to haunt the neo-cons. These really is justice for the 2003 war mongers, all of them lied.
Saudi Arabia is following the Putin 'invasion is not an invasion rule book'. ISIS is a Saudi Arabian militia. Amusing that Obama is polity asking Iran to come to the rescue.
We've always been allies with Iran.
Telescreen said so this morning, right after calisthenics but before the 2 minutes hate I thinks....
Don't you love it...
http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/02/14/350742/saudi-arabia-to-buy-10bn...
and there was this record arms sale back in 2010 too :
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/21/us-congress-notified-arms-s...
>> justice for the 2003
If you couldn't tell this was going to be the outcome of this blunder before we ever attacked, you just weren't thinking. I'd love to see an honest representation of the folks on here, and elsewhere, who were cheering on the attack. I think something in the range of 90% of the public were supporting going to war in Iraq at the time.
Then the US.gov and 90% of the population are war criminals.
There were the stereotypical kneejerk bleeding-heart liberals and assorted fringe groups but most of us were for it. Both parties were for it. The news on virtually every channel was at least luke warm in supporting it. A lot of us were slow on the uptake. A lot of us were brought up to be that way. What can I say, better late than never.
If you wanna do something about that war criminal charge, just let me know. I would like to know what you did to to inform me and to stop it from happening.
And that's the problem with the hammer. Unless you smash everything you're fucked.
Now where did we put Saddam?
It was a lot of people, but not 90%. There were protests and such, not that the media covered it.
"I think something in the range of 90% of the public were supporting going to war in Iraq at the time."
I don't remember that at all. I was part of the anti-intervention protests when the US was talking about Iraq in 2002, and my recollection is there was pretty stiff popular opposition to that move. As usual, however, the political establishment simply upped the propaganda and did what they were planning to do all along, will of the people be damned. Post-2001, there is no longer any pretense in the USA that the government gives two shits what "the people" think. If they want to do something, they simply use the MSM to claim a mandate. More and more people are waking up to this, at least I hope so!
You are correct. We protested on street corners, in parks disrupting public events, in front of govt buildings. We lit candles in our windows. Then we were resigned and watched the shit on TV and hoped we would get in and out quick because they were gonna do what they were gonna do and they did not give a shit what we thought. So much for that.
You weren't shown on TV much. If you were the angles were small and muted. Hippys and whackos were shown when available. It didn't seem like you were a lot and you appear all that much like me.
You think you learn about propaganda in school but you really don't know anything till you see it in practice.
Edit: Better to say till you recognize it afterward, for accuracy. That said, even once you see it you have this denial inside you - no, that can't happen here. This is America...
well said greatbeard. the neocons pushed through the invasion of iraq. but what was the war aim? and what would constitute "winning". unless we conquered the country, made it into the us republic of iraq and kept it forever it means we would eventually have to leave.
that region has been kept stable by iran-iraq since 78. when we invaded, destroyed, weakened and now have left iraq this is the result of the power vacuum and could be seen by anyone with the slightest bit of military knowlede and strategic sense.
A+
ISIS is simply looking for the Billions that 'went missing' from the $100 Billions flown in on wooden palattes. The wise grabbed what loot they could and quickly left.
On February 6, 2007, Bremer appeared before a congressional committee investigating fraud and abuse and was questioned about missing funds during his tenure as head of the CPA and to respond to a January 2005 audit, including the missing $8.8 billion of Iraq's money and the chosen accounting method of these funds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bremer
But Brownie did a hell of a job, didn't he?
The 'american' echo chamber...
'Americans' seldom speak of their objectives.
Under the umbrella of US military bases, the current Iraqi government was not turning into an 'american' friendly government.
That is all what mattered. Then it must be changed.
'Americans' cant tell and will do as much jerk dancing as it is possible to fill the vaccuum.
Iran call to the help? 'Americans' are so self centered, it is scary.
Not only 'americans' use the very same playbook, but they have used that strategy a few weeks ago.
Iran pictures themselves as the defenders of the Shia faith believers. 'Americans' are providing them an opportunity to prove their words. Shiites are killed in Iraq.
So Iran, step in.
'Americans' telling they shall go in amplify the move. Iran cant hide.