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Another Exponential Chart: Americans Who Renounce Their Citizenship

Tyler Durden's picture




 

The American Dream appears to be less and less appealing. Following the release of the names of individuals who renounced their US citizenship (or terminated their long-term US residency) in Q1 2014, the rate of expatriation from the USA is continuing its exponential rise...

 

 

While the catalysts are manifold, the WSJ notes that the US tax dragnet is largely responsible...

Helping boost the exodus, experts say, is a five-year-old U.S. campaign to hunt for undeclared accounts held by Americans abroad.

 

Since 2009, the government campaign has collected more than $6 billion in taxes, interest and penalties from more than 43,000 U.S. taxpayers. Federal prosecutors have filed more than 100 criminal indictments, including the high-profile case of Beanie Babies inventor Ty Warner, who last year pleaded guilty to tax evasion involving secret Swiss bank accounts.

 

The tax dragnet has also swept up many middle-income Americans living abroad, prompting some to give up their U.S. citizenship.

 

...

 

"The increase is due to current and future changes in tax law and enforcement," said Freddi Weintraub, a New York attorney

 

...

 

"We have reached the point where middle-class American citizens abroad are being forced to renounce—especially if they have assets and are moving toward retirement—because of taxes, paperwork and huge potential penalties," said John Richardson, a Toronto lawyer with dual U.S. and Canadian citizenship.

 

As word spreads, experts said, more Americans are likely to consider surrendering their citizenship.

 

Unlike other developed nations, the U.S. government taxes citizens on income they earn anywhere in the world.

 

 

Source: International Tax blog

 

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Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:46 | 4865538 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

I renounced last year and can tell you the numbers would be far higher if it weren't for the shameless efforts of the consular staff to use any and every means to block and hinder applicants.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:47 | 4865548 wakablahh
wakablahh's picture

Plenty of good reasons to leave... if you don't mind leaving your family/relatives/friendships behind.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:56 | 4865578 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

It wont always be as easy to escape the plantation!

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:01 | 4865599 Gaius Frakkin' ...
Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

I'm not going anywhere. There's no place to hide anyway.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:06 | 4865623 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Land of debris..

Home of the slaves.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:17 | 4865670 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

I'm sure that this trend concerns you as much as it concerns me

but one thing you can be sure of: 

I promise that I will never ever renounce *my* us citizenship

in g-d we trust,
topus 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:54 | 4865865 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

The US is becoming the Amityville Horror of countries to call home.  Blood dripping down the walls and the house screaming "GET OUT!" at you.  Eventually people start to take the hint.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:09 | 4865959 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Holy Smokes..

In God We Trust..    NOT

Look at the back of a one dollar FRB note.  (credit bill NOT money).

Hypocrisy at its greatest.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:18 | 4866015 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Oh, and for everybody’s information..

The “United States” of America was killed in 1913 with the travesty of the 17th Amendment.

That is how the power was taken away from the “United States” and given to the bankers and financial pirates..

If you do not know the other two things that the bankers did to us in 1913, you really need to become educated.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:26 | 4866066 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Obviously, there is a banker troll out there.

Come out of the closet, shithead.

This is fight club, not troll bar.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 15:19 | 4866291 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Some stuff to consider:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

14th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America, Section 1.

 

"On the other hand, there is a significant historical fact in all of this.  Clearly, one of the purposes of the 13th and 14th Amendments and of the 1866 act and of section 1982 was to give the Negro citizenship..."
Jones v. Alfred H. Mayer Co. (1967), 379 F.2d 33, 43.

"The object of the 14th Amendment, as is well known, was to confer uponthe colored race the right of citizenship."
United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 692.

 

“We have in our political system a government of the United States and a government of each of the several States.  Each one of these governments is distinct from the others, and each has citizens of it’s own...”
United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1875)

“...he was not a citizen of the United States, he was a citizen and voter of the State,...”  “One may be a citizen of a State an yet not a citizen of the United States”.
McDonel v. The State, 90 Ind. 320 (1883)

“That there is a citizenship of the United States and citizenship of a state,...”
Tashiro v. Jordan, 201 Cal. 236 (1927)

"A citizen of the United States is a citizen of the federal government..."
Kitchens v. Steele, 112 F.Supp 38

 

 

“The governments of the United States and of each state of the several states are distinct from one another.  The rights of a citizen under one may be quite different from those which he has under the other”.
Colgate v. Harvey, 296 U.S. 404; 56 S.Ct. 252 (1935)

“There is a difference between privileges and immunities belonging to the citizens of the United States as such, and those belonging to the citizens of each state as such”.
Ruhstrat v. People, 57 N.E. 41 (1900)

 

"Both before and after the Fourteenth Amendment to the federal Constitution, it has not been necessary for a person to be a citizen of the United States in order to be a citizen of his state."
United States v. Cruikshank, 92 US 542, 549 (1875)

 

Do you know what citizenship you are "renouncing"?  If you are a citizen of the state in which you were born, and then also became a U.S. citizen, wouldn't it be better to get rid of the citizenship that binds you like chains to a slave ship, and keep the other?

What if "renouncing" your U.S. citizenship was as simple as applying for a U.S. passport?  Wait, what?

http://auspassport4ed.com

Dive into the rabbit hole, my friends.

http://state-citizen.org/

I am Chumbawamba.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 17:59 | 4866961 Milestones
Milestones's picture

Neat read sir. By the by, In the law "passing the bar is not the railing that goes around a court room. The BAR is the  British Accreditation Registry and makes attorney's first obligation to the British, not USA courts. 

Kinda against the Constitution and the real 13th Amendment which was passed by the states in 1809 and specifically outlawed attornies from being any part of the U.S.A. government due to that foreign allegience.

I have SEEN the original 13th Amendment printed in U.S. lawbooks that were used in a court of law in this country.

The Constitutional Convention of 2016 is going to be a shotout at the O.K. corral.                Milestones

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 21:45 | 4867571 asdasmos
asdasmos's picture

Posted Elsewhere:

"

1) The taxes are not worth the value being returned.

I don't have a problem paying taxes, so long as they go to something worthwhile. I will end up paying around 33% - an entire 1/3rd of my income - in my 2013 tax return. Yes, I am getting a refund, but when I am paying tens of thousands of dollars and not getting the services I should receive for that investment in my country, celebrating the return of a few hundred dollars seems absurd.

Where is my benefit from my government for all of this? Do I have free healthcare? No. Do I have a world class education for my child? No. Do I have any kind of guaranteed income should I lose my job? No.

No, instead, I have a country which is the only one in the world to tax its overseas citizens. A country that bails out banks who prey on those who just want a home to raise a family when they become insolvent - but when it happens to me, and I short sell my home, the IRS is there, ready to tax me on "phantom income" - forgiven debt.

I have a country that spends billions on fighting wars for political gain, but does nothing when there actually is evidence of WMD use against others. A country that hemorrhages so much money on military spending, it must turn around and take loans against my child's future - her income - in order to continue to pay for programs we don't need.

2) I'm tired of people being surprised that I'm American because I have manners, common courtesy, and the ability to see the other side of issues.

Seriously, the number of people I meet who think Americans are rascal-riding land whales (like in the movie Wall-E) with handle-bar mounted machine guns, a sack of Big Macs in the front basket, a clinical addiction to NASCAR, and a passion for the modern day artist that is Jerry Springer - it's just too much. I've been introducing myself as Canadian because apparently I'm so polite, that's where they mostly assume I'm from.

3) The fact that none of this is ever going to change, regardless of what party is in charge, and the fact that the American government continues to shred the constitution a little more each year, until it doesn't even matter anymore.

You may not think of America as a police state, but it is. Nobody's going to come grab you in the middle of the night, unless you're reported as a terrorist of some kind. At that point, just forget about "police work" and get ready for the SWAT team.

Nobody is going to take your children way from you, unless Child Protective Services is called, and someone decides - for whatever reason - that it's "in the child's best interest" to be removed.

Nobody is ever going to interfere with your access to medicine, unless you're trying to get something that isn't ridiculously expensive from another country; in that case, get ready for being charged as a drug trafficker.

Nobody is going to freeze your bank accounts, passport, and other means of movement, unless the IRS believes you haven't given them enough money. Suddenly you have debt to prove isn't there, and it will all get "sorted out" at the blistering fast speed of government efficiency. Or you could just pay the amount they say and it all ends quickly.

4) The fact that the future for my child in the US is so dark.

All this debt, and it's going to fall on her and her children. She's broke, and she doesn't even know it yet. Disgusting.

Well, I count myself fortunate that I don't own a home in the US - it affords me the ability to even consider leaving it all behind. There's so much propaganda about how wonderful America is but, when you look at it without those rosy lenses on, what you really see is horrifying.

"

 

Tue, 06/24/2014 - 14:07 | 4889988 CH1
CH1's picture

I don't have a problem paying taxes...

I do! "Pay or be hurt" is immoral and criminal.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 18:06 | 4866988 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Crap..

I want to junk you because you are you, but when you ore spot on I cannot compel myself to do so.

You are spot on in this.

 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 17:42 | 4866897 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Some ideas of "Plan B Countries":

http://goo.gl/CLMVUe

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:27 | 4866078 SF beatnik
SF beatnik's picture

Soon all of the wealthiest people, who can afford to leave, will leave.

Then I can buy one of their houses in Pacific Heights for 10 cents on the dollar. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 15:00 | 4866231 Manthong
Manthong's picture

OK..

That will likely be true if you insure your base wealth with GGSA (gold, guns, silver and ammo).

But even though the chicks are cute and the weather is wonderful, it is still Mexi-homeless-Libfornia.

If I moved there with all of my perfectly legal stuff here, I would be a criminal.

 

And oh, gee..  I lived in Mountain View aways back.. you cannot trust the solid earth there, either.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 02:03 | 4868081 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Brush fires are more of a threat than the earthquakes. But you did not go south enough to the quiet little corner called San Diego County. It is nowhere near as Liberal as LA or SF.

 

As for your "toys" why in the hell would you let the Government know that you have them in the first place?

 

I lost everything in a Boating Accident.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:21 | 4866039 I MISS KUDLOW
I MISS KUDLOW's picture

this is ridiuculous and you'd all be begging for the us military to defend your azzes once you were invaded

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 16:33 | 4866604 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

That's the LAST thing a sane person would do (calling air strikes on his head...)

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:22 | 4866045 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Comment of the decade

Silver For The People

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:23 | 4866054 DonGenaro
DonGenaro's picture

Indeed.

I've seen the map.

And the map says ...:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoM8UcB8tIg&feature=kp

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:14 | 4865655 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

And you know this how ? It's all relative; but I'm preferring Uruguay, or Australia by a huge margin.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:51 | 4865853 JRobby
JRobby's picture

Uruguay with the oligarchs? Or is that Paraguay?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:01 | 4865904 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Headed to Australia myself, eventually if my Visa ever gets finalized... At least I know those socialists are not violent empire building pricks. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:19 | 4866029 TradingTroll
TradingTroll's picture

Australia, Indonesia's southernmost state. :)

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:35 | 4866133 mrpxsytin
mrpxsytin's picture

That is utterly absurd. Do some research. And come take a look to see what Australia really is. A giant country full of resources and food with only a skeleton crew working it. We are getting 20k new citizens per annum from the UK alone. 123k new citizens per annum in total. These people are all coming here to work and make a better life for their families. Maybe more Americans could do the same thing. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 17:31 | 4866840 TradingTroll
TradingTroll's picture

$230k/yr for a cook down under

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/gas-plant-cooks-want-2...

 

So how many billion Chinese and Indians would do that job for less? I'm guessing about 1bn

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 16:48 | 4866672 Beard of Zeus
Beard of Zeus's picture

Australia, China's Hawaii.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:30 | 4866108 mrpxsytin
mrpxsytin's picture

Anyone moving to Australia, please accept my invitation to help you with local knowledge on how to settle in. I am very keen to see new people coming to tbe country, especially hardworking, free thinking Americans. I think western Australia is the place for you if you want the best chance of getting work. I have a lot of contacts in many types of business. Just send me a contact request and I'll get in touch.

 

Hopefully more of your countrymen will be joining you.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 16:13 | 4866532 thethirdcoast
thethirdcoast's picture

I was in Perth and WA in August 2012 and I loved it.

I have a pretty broad background in electrical engineering/IS, but due to being underemployed I don't come off as very 'deep' in technical interviews. Still fairly young, have a lot of energy, and am still great at picking up and figuring out problems that are put in front of me.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:14 | 4865991 jcpicks
jcpicks's picture

If you renounce, I'm sure there will be a drone lock on you...

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:03 | 4865609 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

Here is a link to the names of all persons who renounced in the last quarter.

Quarterly Publication of Individuals, Who Have Chosen To Expatriate, as Required by Section 6039G

https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2014/05/02/2014-10139/quarterly...

It is almost as if .gov is publishing a blacklist.

 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:13 | 4865649 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Just wait until the dweebs publish title 1234567890, section 0987654321, sub-section 1234567890, line 0987654321.

Anyone who has even thinks differently will be listed by .bigbrother.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:48 | 4865828 stoneworker
stoneworker's picture

Wow...just wow why would you make a list like that and publish it on a government site...why not also post these people's private information from the metadata they have collected.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 15:05 | 4866266 ajax
ajax's picture

 

 

@stoneworker: it's a matter of public information, nothing wrong with publishing that list at .gov

I noticed quite a few typically Swiss family names on the list - FATCA is ready to kick in...

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:04 | 4865928 Drop out
Drop out's picture

Wow, the government is really good at keeping records (of us anyway).

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:49 | 4865843 JRobby
JRobby's picture

Camp FEMA

Passport is up for renewal. Wonder if I will ever see a new one come back?

 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:55 | 4865579 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

It doesn'T prevent your re-entry into the USSA. I assume this guy has a new passport from somewhere else, so he would have to go through the process all other citizens of his new country have to go through for entry -- whatever that may be. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 17:20 | 4866796 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Wait, was your dad an astronaut?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:02 | 4865604 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

...and largest fresh water reservoir on the planet.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:12 | 4865645 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

You come into this alone, and you leave alone. In between a lot of pretending goes on. Be a Roman.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:03 | 4865924 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Let's keep our heads and short on, shall we?  There is NO fear that you'll be "leaving" any loved ones behind.  You're simply changing legal status, taxation and where you'll spend most of your time each year.  You can still come back and visits -- months at a time, if you wish.  Same as anyone else from the rest of the planet.

But let's be brutally honest about something else, shall we?  Those who have "No Assets or Skills of Consequence" are not relevant to this issue/topic, no matter how sympathetic one might be to their lot.  Those who do, are.  Learn to recognize both sets from their comments.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:02 | 4865920 debunkit
debunkit's picture

Have you entered the US since? Curious to know how you'll be treated by USCIS.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:58 | 4866239 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

I am boycotting all Zionist/NATO countries' economies, as much as I can, so I am certainly not about to go spend vacation dollars in the US.  In fact, just being a truther, I know I am considered a 'terrorist' and 'enemy combatant' by the criminal cabal, so just from that I am reasonably scared of going back to the US.

FWIW, it was not until I started threatening the shameless US consular staff with going to the (alternative) media with the story of my blocked renunciation that they finally let me finish the process - it was *that* bad.

A friend of mine who is trying to renounce let herself get mindfucked by them, which cost her 450$ and lots of wasted time: the game they play is to first push all your emotional patriotic buttons, then they determine that you are 'not sure enough' and use that as an excuse to refuse the renunciation in spite of explicit statements to the contrary...

The US consular staff is extremely manipulative and totally shameless, and their behavior during the renunciation process (which cost me 450$!!!) was so bad it only reinforced why I never want to have anything to do with the US, ever again.

As a very accomplished software developer who worked in many startups in Silicon Valley and elsewhere, I am part of the brain drain leaving the US: all the smartest people out there have woken up and have started adapting to the realization that the West is the evil empire of lies and abuse.  Sayonara, America!

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 16:37 | 4866624 Bemused Observer
Bemused Observer's picture

"use that as an excuse to refuse the renunciation"...wtf!?

You can't refuse to be renounced, and you can't refuse to allow someone to renounce you. I really don't give a shit WHAT any "law" says...the only response to someone refusing to allow you to renounce them is to inform them that it was NOT a request, and does NOT require their 'approval'!!!

"I'm not ASKING you, pal. I'm TELLING you..."

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 17:11 | 4866769 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/115645.pdf

"When faced with a potential renunciant, a consular officer must make a judgment whether the individual fully understands what he or she is seeking to do" ... "You must also assess whether the person is acting of his or her own free will, without undue influence from others and without reservation."

It is absolutely shocking that they give themselves the right to make an on-the-spot psychiatric evaluation, including the right to basically then render anyone 'mentally unfit' (although they will keep your 450$ to pay for this 'service').

America made me despise government, like no other place I've known.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 16:56 | 4866706 August
August's picture

>>>The US consular staff is extremely manipulative and totally shameless...

From what I hear, this varies A LOT from consulate to consulate. 

I'll be happy if the Auckland consulate just doesn't waste an hour of my time processing me through their security check-point.  The USA is so beloved abroad that it seems that a hell of a lot of people want to attack their diplomatic facilities.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 17:21 | 4866802 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

The funny thing about the consulate in Montreal was that at the entrance (right before the security checkpoint), they had a big official sign saying how they are 'not responsible for lost or stolen items'.

I guess that wasn't enough of a warning, so a hand-written note was added underneath that said something like how bitching about getting robbed by the staff was not going to be allowed either.  Welcome to Amerika!

In any case, seeing how criminal America doesn't like looking bad, and hates even more to be losing tax slaves, I am sure all the consular staff are under lots of pressure to 'reduce' renunciations.  I highly doubt the other locations are acting any different.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:46 | 4865539 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Looks like the Fed's balance sheet.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:46 | 4865541 Magnix
Magnix's picture

Going to be one of them in the near future!

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:51 | 4865563 Wahine
Wahine's picture

Me too. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:47 | 4865544 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Are they Americans?

Or, __________ Americans?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:53 | 4865568 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

soon to be completely unwelcome

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:27 | 4866086 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

You'd be fu*king AMAZED how well the Gov is starting to treat Green Card holders (LPRs) who have "Assets or Skills or Consequence".

In their increasing state of desperation, they are finally starting to realize that these people -- millions of them! -- are not only paying real taxes, but have Options.  They don't have to be here.  And that such "options" are being exercised by ever more of them.

I know of a friend who is an LPR (Lawful Permanent Resident) i.e. GreenCard guy, and has Two foreign passports.  Both nice ones, neither of which makes him or his family a "target".  He had seriously considered becoming a USC (US Citizen), but decided against it in the Bush-Obama era.  He doesn't see the point in voting (or his difference in it), and does not plan to run for Office.  Using his foreign passports allows him to thumb his nose at many of the fascist regulations that are being imposed on USCs (that guys like Doug Casey or Simon Black write about).  Sounds smart and rational to me.

p.s. As I've posted before, the Brits have clued in to "preferential taxation" years ago, although they won't talk about it.  Essentially... if you are or plan to become an LPR in the UK and have Sizable Assets, you can negotiate a "preferential" (sweetheart) tax rate with their Gov, guv.  Which is why London is The #1 Tax Haven in the world, and why its RE just keeps going up.  Plus flights in and out of London are dirt cheap, and you can be in all sorts of interesting places in a few hours -- where you can have fun in the sun, the slopes, screw your brains out, fish, shoot or hunt, etc... i.e. when you just gotta let the Beast out and not worry about 'repercussions'.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:49 | 4865554 falconflight
falconflight's picture

Pretty soon, you won't have to request to renounce, it'll be granted without even requesting.  On to the trains...

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:21 | 4866034 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

exit  controls for US citizens seem to coming into effect on both northern and southern borders

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:50 | 4865555 Silver_K-9
Silver_K-9's picture

And he little guy still get screwed... #USSA!

 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:51 | 4865560 Occams_Chainsaw
Occams_Chainsaw's picture

No need to worry they are importing new vote slaves at an incredible rate.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:32 | 4866117 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Good.  Let them pay the taxes :-)

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:54 | 4865571 Mi Naem
Mi Naem's picture

So, at this rate of growth, in about 500 years, the USA will belong to the Indians again. 

But then, who will play slots, blackjack, and roulette? 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:59 | 4865583 Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

Renounce, and go where?

150 years ago you could leave the 'old country' and come to America. Now, every place is the same... same opressive governance, same thieving monetary systems, same corporate slavery, and so on.

Name a place that's 'better' and I'll counter with their position 5 years from now. The trendline shows there is no escape.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:04 | 4865608 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Prison Planet bitchez!

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:05 | 4865618 Gaius Frakkin' ...
Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

If necessity is the mother of invention, then the necessity to leave Earth to escape its oppression may be the mother of "warp drive" or something similar...

Well a person can dream anyway... they can't take that away yet.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:19 | 4865680 bh2
bh2's picture

You'll have to do your own research to answer that question. Obviously you have not.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:23 | 4865696 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Just go. Go on a tourist visa. Go to Paraguay. Go to Australia. Tell me about it when you get back. As soon as you leave the USShitfuck behind, a weight lifts off your head; the paranoia and the craziness starts receeding. When you come back, it starts all over again. It's NOT THE SAME EVERYWHERE. IT'S HERE. THIS IS THE PROBLEM; RIGHT FUCKING HERE.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:05 | 4865934 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

It's easy to tell the people that have never travelled outside the US borders. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:05 | 4865935 madcows
madcows's picture

Are you in washington dc?  I think that's where the majority of the problems are.  Of course, dc is representative of much of america.

I'd say the primary problems are laziness and selfishness.  People are too lazy to earn their own keep, and jealous of what others have.  So, they look to the government to steal it for them in the name of fairness.  This country was lost several generations ago.  There are still a few good people.  But they're severely outnumbered.  I don't blame anyone for leaving.  God bless em.  I wish I had the means to leave.  This country is a lost cause.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:06 | 4865941 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

You can not blame anyone under the age of 40 as being lazy. They have literally nothing to look forward to. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:14 | 4865986 madcows
madcows's picture

I didn't say anything about the under 40 crowd.  the citizenry, as a whole, is pathetic.

A nation is it's citizenry.  What we have are a bunch of techno-thumb-typers, government-handout-collectors, corporate-fascist-thieves, illegal-alien-invaders, and political-power-sellers.  I don't see any redeeming in this country.  It's people are losers.  There are no morals, no pride, no self reliance, no backbone.  No laws.  Only corruption.  Sellers and takers.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:27 | 4865715 cipher14
cipher14's picture

How about Finland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark or Iceland? Those are good places.

America NOT that Great.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:37 | 4865758 falconflight
falconflight's picture

Oh, but the individual is nearly nonexistent for the health of the greater good.  Further, the Mohammedans are rapidly immigrating and cowering the indigenous societies.  

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:47 | 4866182 mrpxsytin
mrpxsytin's picture

Did you guys seriously not get told that Australia has elected a centre right conservative party? I suppose it wouldnt be helpful to Obama if people in the reservation started looking to other countries for ideas.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:08 | 4865956 madcows
madcows's picture

I think we're first in abortions.  First in foreign invasions.  First in lib-tards.  First in illegal immigration.  First in selfishness.  First in laziness.  First in government purchase hollow point bullets.  First in corporate/government corruption.

USA!  USA!  USA!

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 15:05 | 4866265 madcows
madcows's picture

first in teenage pregnancies.  First in "Mental Health" prescriptions.  First in drug addicts.  First in vote buying.  First in graft.  First in Gay pride parades.  I'll have to think of some more.  We're really good at Firsts.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:08 | 4865957 Surging Chaos
Surging Chaos's picture

I would not move to a Nordic country unless:

1) you can speak the native language well

2) you're willing to deal with the harsh climate, especially in the winter when the sun is up for only a handful of hours

3) you're willing to put up with all the progressive policies those countries have (for example if you think gun control is strict in a blue state, it's nothing compared to a country like Sweden for example)

Otherwise I would forget about moving to one of those places even though they always get ranked high for being the "happiest countries in the world".

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:21 | 4866038 teslaberry
teslaberry's picture

the only time nordic nations have had welath is when they conquered other countries (vikings) or were subject to the rule of the united states. 

 

nordic nations have a tradition of instability , and have been exporting immigrants (sweden finland and norway) for many centuries. 

 

cold induced starvation is a regular occurence there before petro-shipping food model of the post war era. 

 

their wealth now is based on stability and framework provided by nato--in which to sell petrodollars and petroeuros. 

while norway has oil. sweden is like germany. it looks wealthy from the outside but is heavily indebted through social entitlements and a ticking timebomb whose clock is derivative of the general nato western alliance and trade partnerships. 

a tower of babyl. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:51 | 4866206 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

re Nordic countries

a good way to judge a country is how well they treat prisoners, people without any power, the Nordic countries treat prisoners very well

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:23 | 4866055 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

90/180 rule in effect

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:52 | 4865858 deKevelioc
deKevelioc's picture

Malaysia.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:48 | 4866073 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

expensive for residence visa, ok for 90 day in and out situation.

best countries are places a little corrupt, eg., Argentina a long overstay will get you a cheap fine, under $30 USD, 90 day visa runs are easy.

In some countries visa overstay will get you a jail term, like Thailand

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 19:01 | 4867162 Tompooz
Tompooz's picture

Go where? The answer to that is found by studying the speed by which countries are following the US ways. For this reason alone, Australia is out. And I don't know about Canada.

On the other hand, New Zealand is worth looking at, in spite of its current coalition government.

Another way of choosing is looking for countries that are 50 years behind in everything.  Or countries that cannot "modernize" for lack of money.    If you are young and have an adventurous spirit...

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:02 | 4865600 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

If I were to renounce my citizenship it wouldn't be to avoid taxes, although that is reason enough with this criminal enterprise, it would be because I am ashamed of what a shithole this country has become.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:05 | 4865620 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

Hell, Doc - it really isn't us, it's the fucking politicians.  Big government is like big banks - squidoquacious.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:50 | 4865849 Freddie
Freddie's picture

It is us.  I wonder how many ZH'er watch TV and Hollywood and support it.  Or wave the flag for the military and endless wars.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:20 | 4865685 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Of couse; it's offensive to my sense of myself as a conscious citizen of the world; I don't want to be counted as any part of some two-bit tin-horn version of a maniac's Empire.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:23 | 4866052 Bemused Observer
Bemused Observer's picture

And THAT is what a lot of people are missing here. It is being assumed that money is the primary motivator, but I believe it MAY not be.

As it has been mentioned, where WOULD you go to 'protect' your wealth? They're ALL starting to grab it, not just here in the US. In fact, it can be argued that your excess wealth is SAFER with you as a US citizen, for now at least.

And if there WERE a "safer place" for wealth, you'd expect to see most of the expats going there. But it looks like they are going all over the place...some opting for safe havens in Europe, South America, etc...there's no one true destination for these folks.

So, maybe they aren't running TO something better, but FROM something increasingly noxious.

Misunderstanding the reasons something negative is happening just ensures that you'll fuck up any attempts to fix it.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 19:47 | 4867302 SeekingNuNormal
SeekingNuNormal's picture

When I travel abroad I say I'm Canadian.  Europeans think (rightly) that Americans are complete retards.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:06 | 4865625 BullyBearish
BullyBearish's picture

America's New Motto:

"The more money you have, the less the rules apply"

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:10 | 4865638 kurt
kurt's picture

This is an unpopular post please, please down arrow.

What group by race is leaving the most? The income suggests someone familiar with leaving sinking ships. Perhaps they sank it?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:11 | 4865643 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

I wish everyone would leave, please.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:15 | 4865661 Racer
Racer's picture
They spy on you everywhere: "Google and Facebook can be legally intercepted, says UK spy boss"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-27887639

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:18 | 4865677 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Byyeee y'all. Have a nice fourth reich.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:28 | 4865718 Itchy and Scratchy
Itchy and Scratchy's picture

U can't run from the tax man!

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:35 | 4865749 PresidentCamacho
PresidentCamacho's picture

I would like to know exactly who is leaving and where too and there gps cordinates and bank account info mothers maiden name and their favorite ice cream.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:44 | 4865803 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Just more hippy pinkos who hate everything Merica stands for, and the troops.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 15:10 | 4866283 trader1
trader1's picture

a good portion of the people renouncing are those who are dual nationals by birth, don't live/work in the us, and are justifiably annoyed that they have to file all the ridiculous tax returns and fbar compliance paperwork to maintain a "losing value" us citizenship...

 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:46 | 4865812 Sages wife
Sages wife's picture

How about Petoria.  Lois is kinda hot.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:27 | 4865842 SMC
SMC's picture

The smart corporations and people are leaving. I wonder how the curve compares to German emigration 1927 - 1937.

There may not be "better" places to go, however; if the choice is between survival or execution based on suspicion. Leaving would be the smart play.

If the thought of being "legally" murdered on mere suspicion does not light a fire under your rear, perhaps the potential for arrest on manufactured secret "evidence", leading to indefinite detention and torture will.

If your case has some propaganda value - perhaps a show trial based on that secret "evidence", that you and your attorneys are not permitted to review based on secret "laws and regulations" and secret "courtroom sessions"...

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140616/18141727598/court-rejects-req...

...leading to confinement in a special "secret" jail (well not so secret now)...

http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/daniel-mcgowan-back-in-prison-cmu-h...

Run. Don't walk. Run.

Or stay and see how your poker hand plays out in the "rigged" game.

Either way, best of luck to everyone! :-)

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:54 | 4865847 Frank N. Beans
Frank N. Beans's picture

edit: nevermind

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:01 | 4865912 SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

let em leave, let the pigs leave, we're gonna change rules soon, tax their kids, and force them to give up US citizenship too then chase out a few more, then no citizenship no residency rights and we should probably limit property ownership to US citizens, we can impose a property tax on alien landlords, say 30% per year.

Enjoy your whatever citizenship, adn protecting your forcing property from foreigners without US help. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:40 | 4866152 The Chief
The Chief's picture

I'm not saying that you're an asshole, but your attitude is very asshole-ish.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 16:40 | 4866642 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

He's a stupid asshole... There, I said it !

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 22:19 | 4867660 asdasmos
asdasmos's picture

Posted Elsewhere:

"

1) The taxes are not worth the value being returned.

I don't have a problem paying taxes, so long as they go to something worthwhile. I will end up paying around 33% - an entire 1/3rd of my income - in my 2013 tax return. Yes, I am getting a refund, but when I am paying tens of thousands of dollars and not getting the services I should receive for that investment in my country, celebrating the return of a few hundred dollars seems absurd.

Where is my benefit from my government for all of this? Do I have free healthcare? No. Do I have a world class education for my child? No. Do I have any kind of guaranteed income should I lose my job? No.

No, instead, I have a country which is the only one in the world to tax its overseas citizens. A country that bails out banks who prey on those who just want a home to raise a family when they become insolvent - but when it happens to me, and I short sell my home, the IRS is there, ready to tax me on "phantom income" - forgiven debt.

I have a country that spends billions on fighting wars for political gain, but does nothing when there actually is evidence of WMD use against others. A country that hemorrhages so much money on military spending, it must turn around and take loans against my child's future - her income - in order to continue to pay for programs we don't need.

2) I'm tired of people being surprised that I'm American because I have manners, common courtesy, and the ability to see the other side of issues.

Seriously, the number of people I meet who think Americans are rascal-riding land whales (like in the movie Wall-E) with handle-bar mounted machine guns, a sack of Big Macs in the front basket, a clinical addiction to NASCAR, and a passion for the modern day artist that is Jerry Springer - it's just too much. I've been introducing myself as Canadian because apparently I'm so polite, that's where they mostly assume I'm from.

3) The fact that none of this is ever going to change, regardless of what party is in charge, and the fact that the American government continues to shred the constitution a little more each year, until it doesn't even matter anymore.

You may not think of America as a police state, but it is. Nobody's going to come grab you in the middle of the night, unless you're reported as a terrorist of some kind. At that point, just forget about "police work" and get ready for the SWAT team.

Nobody is going to take your children way from you, unless Child Protective Services is called, and someone decides - for whatever reason - that it's "in the child's best interest" to be removed.

Nobody is ever going to interfere with your access to medicine, unless you're trying to get something that isn't ridiculously expensive from another country; in that case, get ready for being charged as a drug trafficker.

Nobody is going to freeze your bank accounts, passport, and other means of movement, unless the IRS believes you haven't given them enough money. Suddenly you have debt to prove isn't there, and it will all get "sorted out" at the blistering fast speed of government efficiency. Or you could just pay the amount they say and it all ends quickly.

4) The fact that the future for my child in the US is so dark.

All this debt, and it's going to fall on her and her children. She's broke, and she doesn't even know it yet. Disgusting.

Well, I count myself fortunate that I don't own a home in the US - it affords me the ability to even consider leaving it all behind. There's so much propaganda about how wonderful America is but, when you look at it without those rosy lenses on, what you really see is horrifying.

"

 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:06 | 4865947 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

This isn't a dumber topic on ZH that gets more attention than this one.  If this trend keeps up and it ends up being 4,000-5,000 people this year it is worth paying attention but otherwise this is a rounding error and this is a classic case of using particular data points in an illustrative example to make the effect much more pronounced than it really is especially vs any other competitive figure (immigration, total population or against other benchmarks from other countries).  Anyone who spends time on a trend that is outside 99.99% is an idiot or has way too much free time.  

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 15:00 | 4866109 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

You are right, a lot of people, some US based, others Mexico or Argentina are pushing second passports, but second rate foreign passports in the Caribbean are not so useful. If you have  a couple of hundred thousand dollars to spare, some of the bankrupt EU countries are selling resident visas to foreigners

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 19:21 | 4867210 August
August's picture

>>>If this trend keeps up and it ends up being 4,000-5,000 people this year it is worth paying attention

The number of persons renouncing US citizenship will likely level off with time, as the vast majority of non-Latino US citizens will find "renunciation and second passport" a game too difficult to play. 

But the number of renunciants is already at a level of 4,000 per year; before it levels off, I wouldn't be at all suprised to see that figure double. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:10 | 4865960 22winmag
22winmag's picture

Only girly men flee das homeland.

 

Snpies: We're safe around here.

 

Connery: You call this safe?

 

Snipes: Rough Neighborhoods may be America's last advantage.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 22:19 | 4867665 asdasmos
asdasmos's picture

Posted Elsewhere:

"

1) The taxes are not worth the value being returned.

I don't have a problem paying taxes, so long as they go to something worthwhile. I will end up paying around 33% - an entire 1/3rd of my income - in my 2013 tax return. Yes, I am getting a refund, but when I am paying tens of thousands of dollars and not getting the services I should receive for that investment in my country, celebrating the return of a few hundred dollars seems absurd.

Where is my benefit from my government for all of this? Do I have free healthcare? No. Do I have a world class education for my child? No. Do I have any kind of guaranteed income should I lose my job? No.

No, instead, I have a country which is the only one in the world to tax its overseas citizens. A country that bails out banks who prey on those who just want a home to raise a family when they become insolvent - but when it happens to me, and I short sell my home, the IRS is there, ready to tax me on "phantom income" - forgiven debt.

I have a country that spends billions on fighting wars for political gain, but does nothing when there actually is evidence of WMD use against others. A country that hemorrhages so much money on military spending, it must turn around and take loans against my child's future - her income - in order to continue to pay for programs we don't need.

2) I'm tired of people being surprised that I'm American because I have manners, common courtesy, and the ability to see the other side of issues.

Seriously, the number of people I meet who think Americans are rascal-riding land whales (like in the movie Wall-E) with handle-bar mounted machine guns, a sack of Big Macs in the front basket, a clinical addiction to NASCAR, and a passion for the modern day artist that is Jerry Springer - it's just too much. I've been introducing myself as Canadian because apparently I'm so polite, that's where they mostly assume I'm from.

3) The fact that none of this is ever going to change, regardless of what party is in charge, and the fact that the American government continues to shred the constitution a little more each year, until it doesn't even matter anymore.

You may not think of America as a police state, but it is. Nobody's going to come grab you in the middle of the night, unless you're reported as a terrorist of some kind. At that point, just forget about "police work" and get ready for the SWAT team.

Nobody is going to take your children way from you, unless Child Protective Services is called, and someone decides - for whatever reason - that it's "in the child's best interest" to be removed.

Nobody is ever going to interfere with your access to medicine, unless you're trying to get something that isn't ridiculously expensive from another country; in that case, get ready for being charged as a drug trafficker.

Nobody is going to freeze your bank accounts, passport, and other means of movement, unless the IRS believes you haven't given them enough money. Suddenly you have debt to prove isn't there, and it will all get "sorted out" at the blistering fast speed of government efficiency. Or you could just pay the amount they say and it all ends quickly.

4) The fact that the future for my child in the US is so dark.

All this debt, and it's going to fall on her and her children. She's broke, and she doesn't even know it yet. Disgusting.

Well, I count myself fortunate that I don't own a home in the US - it affords me the ability to even consider leaving it all behind. There's so much propaganda about how wonderful America is but, when you look at it without those rosy lenses on, what you really see is horrifying.

"

 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:23 | 4866041 Hongcha
Hongcha's picture

I have some good news.

I am probably what you would call part of the 20%.  My household's livelihood is founded upon relieving a certain very wealthy subclass of east asians of their mad money.  I found a country where I know the language, look normal, have a general understanding of the history, memes and sub-cultures and can move undetected.  

This country is rather dull in the main, but has some lively places - generally the few small areas which are most open to foreign influence.  I can keep myself entertained; but it is mostly a place of work and at this time in the world, work is called for.

The infrastructure is decent and very importantly, the air, water and food are generally clean and cheap.  You can eat well there.

The laws are not onerous if you know how to circumvent them; which is do-able.

All in all, I live here because it is an excellent base of operation.  There is juuuussst enough diversity in the population to allow me to live my life more or less without undue hinderance.

You may want to give this place a look.  It's name? the United States of America.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:36 | 4866138 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

you are right for  foreigners, the US is the world's easiest place to live  as an illegal alien.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:51 | 4866203 damicol
damicol's picture

I point blank refuse to live, comply with or even besmirch my self by lowering  and stooping so low as to pander to the filthy  despicable scum running this clustefuck of debacle on debacle,  where the deranged  lunatic half witted natives are so slack jawed, such underachieving dribbling morons, that not once but twice they put a fucking degenerate Kenyan faggot monkey in charge.

Only a crawling idiot would succumb to pandering to what the pansy waist shit for brains morons want by actually applying  to renounce

 

Real men  simply make the decision and leave without a word

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 18:06 | 4866989 fishwharf
fishwharf's picture

I will be adding to that exponential chart in the near future.  For me it's not about saving on taxes.  As far as I know, every government on earth collects taxes from its residents.  The important issue for me is what is done with that tax money.  An obscene percentage of tax collected in the USA goes to wage wars, spy on its citizens, pay for the world's largest prison population, bail out insolvent banks and pay interest to the Federal Reserve.  I could go on.

There are countries in the world that have little or none of that nonsense.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 19:29 | 4867238 August
August's picture

Thank you, mr. fishwharf, for pointing that out. 

I'd prefer living in some tax-free locale (Monaco, say), but to me the bigger concern is what my taxes go to support.  Here in New Zealand, income tax tops out at 33%, and I'm confident that a significant proportion of tax is wasted on one boondoggle or another.  Still, next-to-nothing is spent on meddling abroad, and nothing is spent on war.

We do get to watch American TeeVee, though, so we get many of America's cultural advantages.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 22:20 | 4867666 asdasmos
asdasmos's picture

Posted Elsewhere:

"

1) The taxes are not worth the value being returned.

I don't have a problem paying taxes, so long as they go to something worthwhile. I will end up paying around 33% - an entire 1/3rd of my income - in my 2013 tax return. Yes, I am getting a refund, but when I am paying tens of thousands of dollars and not getting the services I should receive for that investment in my country, celebrating the return of a few hundred dollars seems absurd.

Where is my benefit from my government for all of this? Do I have free healthcare? No. Do I have a world class education for my child? No. Do I have any kind of guaranteed income should I lose my job? No.

No, instead, I have a country which is the only one in the world to tax its overseas citizens. A country that bails out banks who prey on those who just want a home to raise a family when they become insolvent - but when it happens to me, and I short sell my home, the IRS is there, ready to tax me on "phantom income" - forgiven debt.

I have a country that spends billions on fighting wars for political gain, but does nothing when there actually is evidence of WMD use against others. A country that hemorrhages so much money on military spending, it must turn around and take loans against my child's future - her income - in order to continue to pay for programs we don't need.

2) I'm tired of people being surprised that I'm American because I have manners, common courtesy, and the ability to see the other side of issues.

Seriously, the number of people I meet who think Americans are rascal-riding land whales (like in the movie Wall-E) with handle-bar mounted machine guns, a sack of Big Macs in the front basket, a clinical addiction to NASCAR, and a passion for the modern day artist that is Jerry Springer - it's just too much. I've been introducing myself as Canadian because apparently I'm so polite, that's where they mostly assume I'm from.

3) The fact that none of this is ever going to change, regardless of what party is in charge, and the fact that the American government continues to shred the constitution a little more each year, until it doesn't even matter anymore.

You may not think of America as a police state, but it is. Nobody's going to come grab you in the middle of the night, unless you're reported as a terrorist of some kind. At that point, just forget about "police work" and get ready for the SWAT team.

Nobody is going to take your children way from you, unless Child Protective Services is called, and someone decides - for whatever reason - that it's "in the child's best interest" to be removed.

Nobody is ever going to interfere with your access to medicine, unless you're trying to get something that isn't ridiculously expensive from another country; in that case, get ready for being charged as a drug trafficker.

Nobody is going to freeze your bank accounts, passport, and other means of movement, unless the IRS believes you haven't given them enough money. Suddenly you have debt to prove isn't there, and it will all get "sorted out" at the blistering fast speed of government efficiency. Or you could just pay the amount they say and it all ends quickly.

4) The fact that the future for my child in the US is so dark.

All this debt, and it's going to fall on her and her children. She's broke, and she doesn't even know it yet. Disgusting.

Well, I count myself fortunate that I don't own a home in the US - it affords me the ability to even consider leaving it all behind. There's so much propaganda about how wonderful America is but, when you look at it without those rosy lenses on, what you really see is horrifying.

"

 

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