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Ron Paul Asks "Haven't We Already Done Enough Damage in Iraq?"

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Ron Paul via The Ron Paul Institute,

In 2006, I invited the late General Bill Odom to address my Thursday Congressional luncheon group. Gen. Odom, a former NSA director, called the Iraq war “the greatest strategic disaster in American history," and told the surprised audience that he could not understand why Congress had not impeached the president for pushing this disaster on the United States. History continues to prove the General’s assessment absolutely correct.
In September, 2002, arguing against a US attack on Iraq, I said the following on the House Floor:

No credible evidence has been produced that Iraq has or is close to having nuclear weapons. No evidence exists to show that Iraq harbors al Qaeda terrorists. Quite to the contrary, experts on this region recognize Hussein as an enemy of the al Qaeda and a foe to Islamic fundamentalism.

Unfortunately, Congress did not listen.
As we know, last week the second largest city in Iraq, Mosul, fell to the al-Qaeda allied Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS). Last week an al-Qaeda that had not been in Iraq before our 2003 invasion threatened to move on the capitol, Baghdad, after it easily over-ran tens of thousands of Iraqi military troops.
The same foreign policy “experts” who lied us into the Iraq war are now telling us we must re-invade Iraq to deal with the disaster caused by their invasion! They cannot admit they were wrong about the invasion being a “cakewalk” that would pay for itself, so they want to blame last week’s events on the 2011 US withdrawal from Iraq. But the trouble started with the 2003 invasion itself, not the 2011 troop withdrawal. Anyone who understands cause and effect should understand this.
The Obama administration has said no option except for ground troops is off the table to help the Iraqi government in this crisis. We should not forget, however, that the administration does not consider Special Forces or the CIA to be “boots on the ground.” So we may well see Americans fighting in Iraq again.
It is also likely that the administration will begin shipping more weapons and other military equipment to the Iraqi army, in the hopes that they might be able to address the ISIS invasion themselves. After years of US training, costing as much as $20 billion, it is unlikely the Iraqi army is up to the task. Judging from the performance of the Iraqi military as the ISIS attacked, much of that money was wasted or stolen.
A big US government weapons transfer to Iraq will no doubt be favored by the US military-industrial complex, which stands to profit further from the Iraq meltdown.
This move will also be favored by those in Washington who realize how politically unpopular a third US invasion of Iraq would be at home, but who want to “do something” in the face of the crisis. Shipping weapons may be an action short of war, but it usually leads to war. And as we have already seen in Iraq and Syria, very often these weapons fall into the hands of the al-Qaeda we are supposed to be fighting!
Because of the government’s foolish policy of foreign interventionism, the US is faced with two equally stupid choices
: either pour in resources to prop up an Iraqi government that is a close ally with Iran, or throw our support in with al-Qaida in Iraq (as we have done in Syria). I say we must follow a third choice: ally with the American people and spend not one more dollar or one more life attempting to re-make the Middle East. Haven’t we have already done enough damage?


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Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:25 | 4864867 Bawneee Fwank
Bawneee Fwank's picture

Fuck You Ron Paul!!  We must kill just enough in order to kill just enough at a later date!  It never ends hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:27 | 4864882 Mr Pink
Mr Pink's picture

It's never enough! Didn't he hear? These wars are great for OUR economy!

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:32 | 4864913 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

An ebola outbreak could really clean the slate.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:34 | 4864922 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

It's a shame the infection window for Ebola is so short though.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:44 | 4864967 Mr Pink
Mr Pink's picture

Must be some idiots up early today with broken sarcasm detectors


The Yahoo boards are that way >>>>>

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:57 | 4865025 jsgibson
jsgibson's picture

Blasphemy either way.  Ron Paul is probably the greatest man to step foot in Washington since Jefferson.  Save that for the bankers.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:11 | 4865094 power steering
power steering's picture

The worldd is a safer place since he has no offspring

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:13 | 4865101 Four chan
Four chan's picture

power steering is a tool?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:47 | 4864977 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

it's not a disaster if your goal is to impoverish, isolate, and standing-armify the us

they hate us for our domestic surveillance

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:12 | 4865096 Four chan
Four chan's picture

you know they are working on it in the lyme disease department.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:32 | 4866113 cipher14
cipher14's picture

In the book GERMS by Judith Miller, Steven Engleberg and William J. Broad, they report on the U.S. Government's Germ Warfare program. They describe a genetically modified version of Variola (smallpox)-Ebola combination created in an American Military Lab specifically for "culling" large swaths of an (supposedly) enemy population. Variola-Ebola is as contagious as influenza with an 88% mortality rate. It is an ugly death. All the Kings in their 1% Brightly Shining Castles couldn't escape if this piece of Military Grade Software were to ever get out of Fort Detrick, Maryland. True story.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:56 | 4866228 Reptil
Reptil's picture

that's being fixed as we speak:
check out the (now defunct) Sunshine Project, charting the USA biological warfare program (right on your doorstep):


Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:51 | 4864995 JailBanksters
JailBanksters's picture

That's right

America must kill or shareholders in the Military Industrial Complex are going to loose money.

People have to die, so the US Economy can live another day.


Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:42 | 4865247 tempo
tempo's picture

US policy.... urban fighting which destorys cities, kill many, force millions to flee.  This encourages larger area of instability which causes more urban fighting. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:29 | 4865471 f16hoser
Wed, 06/18/2014 - 00:48 | 4868000 Abbie Normal
Abbie Normal's picture

The enemy of my enemy of my enemy is still my enemy.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:25 | 4864870 CharliePrince
CharliePrince's picture

when dick cheney  comes out of his coffin tonight  ,  ask  him  what to do

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:26 | 4864873 Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

They WANT to ally w/ AlQ ... creates Sunni hegemonic power against Iran. Keeps em all fighting each other. Like the good ole days, not lol.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:36 | 4864929 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

ISIS is a proxy of the US,just like Al Ciada and bin Laden.

Maliki was going off the petrodollar reservation.

This is what happens when you do.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:43 | 4864954 Thought Processor
Thought Processor's picture



Agreed.  The ISIS footage and pics look staged.  Especially the big ISIS guy with no ski mask who also has dyed black hair and beard-  WTF?


As usual, something smells about all of this.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:18 | 4865125 Thought Processor
Thought Processor's picture



Also, does anyone else find it odd that ISIS just 'all of the sudden' emerges as a giant threat?


And do you think that all these groups have nice neatly organized armies with easy to remember names?   Well they don't in real life.  And the ones that do exist, well you can't pronounce their names in english that well and there are usually many factions within them all from different sects.  In other words they aren't that memorable or well organized.


Who is funding ISIS?  Where did they originate and how?  These are in fact the real questions.  Is it just a coincidence that they got a hold of all that US equipment and money?


Or are we simply watching Wag the Dog again?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:33 | 4865195 donsluck
donsluck's picture

Is responding to your own comment mental masturbation?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:40 | 4865232 Thought Processor
Thought Processor's picture



Yep, I suppose, but it could also be called thinking, I think.  



Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:43 | 4864958 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> Maliki was going off the petrodollar reservation.

Is this a fact? (sorry to be so ill informed)

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:45 | 4864969 magpie
magpie's picture

Iraq Government was accumulating gold and instituting a public bullion sale-resale program.

KRG was moving off the standard as well...

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:47 | 4864976 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

I wasn't aware of that,

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:54 | 4865005 Thought Processor
Thought Processor's picture



I think there is more to it than that but the Iraq Gov. was departing from the script that was given to them, that much is clear.   

They were attempting to detach from their overlords.  That was a big no no.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:15 | 4865659 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Thanks, I'll do a little research.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:55 | 4865006 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

No, the US and the ISIS/al Quesack take turns using each other.



Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:26 | 4865170 Stripey Magee
Stripey Magee's picture

Iran, Iraq and Syria have a pipeline deal to pipe gas and oil to the Mediterranean for sale to the EU which will not be sold in petro dollars. The Saudis and Qatar have been left out of the deal.




Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:42 | 4865245 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

link?  Because this would explain the whole fucking thing.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:29 | 4865179 dark_matter
dark_matter's picture

My friends from Iraq agree with this. They think ISIS was given the unspoken nod to invade.

When asked in a debate about Iraq, Mitt Romney said it should be broken up into 3 countries and my friends think this is the goal. Three Kuwait-sized kingdoms that can be more easily controlled, one Shia, one Sunni and one Kurd. And none a threat to Israel.


Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:41 | 4865238 Thought Processor
Thought Processor's picture



This would make sense and at the same time explain a lot.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:41 | 4865240 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

your "friends from Iraq" been doing some map-reading?

illustrated intentions at the bottom of this article, and if one chooses to read, the path to arrival is laid out in details.

perpetual wars for perpetual profits, maximum chaos.


Tue, 06/17/2014 - 16:48 | 4866671 omniversling
omniversling's picture

Pat Buchanan is not someone I'd usually listen up to, but this article from 2003 made me sit up and reconsider his views. Very instructive, especially with hindsight now passing thru the prism of the 'surpRISE' of the ISIL/ISIS. PB names names and strategists:

Whose War?
A neoconservative clique seeks to ensnare our country in a series of wars that are not in America’s interest.
By PATRICK J. BUCHANAN • March 24, 2003

"Podhoretz credits Eliot Cohen with the phrase “World War IV.” Bush was shortly thereafter seen carrying about a gift copy of Cohen’s book that celebrates civilian mastery of the military in times of war, as exhibited by such leaders as Winston Churchill and David Ben Gurion.
A list of the Middle East regimes that Podhoretz, Bennett, Ledeen, Netanyahu, and the Wall Street Journal regard as targets for destruction thus includes Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Sudan, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas, the Palestinian Authority, and “militant Islam.”
Cui Bono? For whose benefit these endless wars in a region that holds nothing vital to America save oil, which the Arabs must sell us to survive? Who would benefit from a war of civilizations between the West and Islam?
Answer: one nation, one leader, one party. Israel, Sharon, Likud."

I believe this map of the Bernard Lewis Plan ( below predates the one referred to in the Global Research article referenced above <

The Lewis Plan (2002?) - division of Iraq by international oil companies.

Another illuminating (no pun intended) article from Global Research explaining/referencing the Yinon Plan for 'Eretz Israel '. Oded Yinon’s “A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties” - Published by the Association of Arab-American University Graduates, Inc. Belmont, Massachusetts, 1982 Special Document No. 1 (ISBN 0-937694-56-8)

< (published on Global Research April 29, 2013, with in Introduction by Michel Chossudovsky):

Gratitude and Thanks for all your insights, wit and insults ZHedgers...



Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:44 | 4864959 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Nuttynyahoo and his friends could not be happier. Nor could the Saudis.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:36 | 4865214 marchare
marchare's picture

just one big Illuminati game. Isis, goddess of magic mother of Horus God of War

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:46 | 4865270 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

they do loves their tell-tale acronyms, hmm.

and their strategically chosen calendar dates. . .

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:26 | 4864878 Jason T
Jason T's picture

I heard Glenn Beck this mornign on radio giving "Liberals" all the credit for being right about Iraq and not one mention of the BOSS being dead on right the entire time.  

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:07 | 4865075 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

Continue to listen to that nutjob at your own risk.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:27 | 4864880 prains
prains's picture

mission accomplished......LOL

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:27 | 4864889 moroots
moroots's picture

I love ya Dr. P, but what do you mean "we"?  I didn't have shit to do with any of this.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:33 | 4864917 DeliciousSteak
DeliciousSteak's picture

Your opinion is irrelevant both to your leaders and their enemies. But I guess you're armed and ready for the consequences of your non-action.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:52 | 4864998 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Very Heideggerian.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:28 | 4864892 Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

This way, Israelis provide strategic shield for Saudis & friends. Rooskies lose Syrian naval base but hey, they have Crimea ... and oil still flows for your Chevy Tahoe. Etc.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:31 | 4864911 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Putin will give up Tartus right after he gobbles O'bomb-a's goo. Which will be like, never.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:30 | 4864901 MFL8240
MFL8240's picture

Gen. Odom, a former NSA director, called the Iraq war “the greatest strategic disaster in American history," and told the surprised audience that he could not understand why Congress had not impeached the president for pushing this disaster on the United States. History continues to prove the General’s assessment absolutely correct.


Wasnt this war authorized by the congress based upon the same data the Bush admininstration reviewed?  How about we get rid of all of them?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:37 | 4864931 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

How about we get rid of all of them?

This is pretty much dead on, yet fraught with the problem of dealing with delusional individuals who have an awful lot of money and prestige.  I guess what I am saying is this will just never happen. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:48 | 4864984 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

It won't happen until the American Empire crumbles.  People will do as they are told for easy oil every day of the week.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:03 | 4865056 rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

The only way to "get rid of all of them" is to starve them. Stop voting and stop feeding the beast with tax money. Otherwise, the play will continue with different actors.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:05 | 4865061 rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

And one more thing or a couple - take the profit motive out of war and stop sending your children to the military. That would go a long ways toward ending this bovine scat. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:36 | 4865206 donsluck
donsluck's picture

Is responding to your own comment a sign of schizophrenia?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:38 | 4865764 rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

Channeling Steve Martin: "Well exxxcuuuusssee me!". I'll enroll today in the Zero Hedge School of Comment Etiquette. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:29 | 4865176 MidwestJester
MidwestJester's picture

It certainly won't happen by playing within the system that they setup to maintain the power...

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:46 | 4864975 TabakLover
TabakLover's picture

The good General obviously had no crystal ball.....else would have seen that Irag would all be President Obama's fault.  Silly army man.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:23 | 4865155 Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

I had forgotten about Gen. Odom. Died in 2008 "of an apparent heart attack". Wonder which long distance HAARP like weapon was used...

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:30 | 4864903 Vooter
Vooter's picture

Of course we haven't, Ron! We're a nation of TV-, sugar-, and booze-addled psychopaths who enjoy killing anyone and everyone who stands in our way. What don't you get? Onward Christian soldiers!

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:43 | 4864962 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Team 'Murca!

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:32 | 4864912 JiminGA
JiminGA's picture

Uh Oh...Ron's off his meds again.  I recall he was in Congress when it approved the war.  Maybe he voted "No" but that's water under the bridge.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:42 | 4864955 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Paul's view on foreign policy is sound.  Get a fucking grip.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:27 | 4865172 aardvarkk
aardvarkk's picture

Well, THAT is certainly moronic.  Paul voted the right way on an important issue, so he's off his meds or something.  And it's water under the bridge.  So what, a correct decision in the past is a bad thing?

The reason I like Paul is that, unlike a lot of the liberal ninnies, if there was a real, actual, reason to fight I believe he would vote YES to declare war properly and then hurt people and break stuff.  But until there is a good, honest reason to declare war, he'd rather just sit it out (unlike the neocon attitude).  That's a philosophy I can get behind.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:20 | 4865339 Emergency Ward
Emergency Ward's picture

434-1.  Ok there were some who voted against the Bush war and changed their stance when Obama arrived; and there were some who voted for the Bush war and lied about it later when they supported Obama's war.


Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:43 | 4864933 Cangaroo.TNT
Cangaroo.TNT's picture

What a quitter.  Last I heard there are still lots of civilians alive in Iraq.  Obviously, we have not done enough yet.

/sarc (in case you're a retard)

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:37 | 4864936 NewAmericaNow
NewAmericaNow's picture
Iraq - The Real Story About The “Too Extreme for Al Qaeda” I.S.I.S.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 15:47 | 4866416 The Boognish
The Boognish's picture

Excelent article.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:38 | 4864937 DaMule
DaMule's picture

Arming both sides and letting them go at it is the best solution for the world

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:38 | 4865222 donsluck
donsluck's picture

I wonder what you mean by "the world".

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:39 | 4864941 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Bush Sr. ran roughshod over Iraq, Clinton continously bombed the shit out of them during his time as Criminal in Chief, Bush Jr of course fucked them up without apology, and Obama has kept Xi and other private military forces there.

Have we done enough damage?  Does the President lie?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:39 | 4864943 Bawneee Fwank
Bawneee Fwank's picture

I think this entire thing in Iraq is cover for the missiles the US .gov gave the rebels in Libya and Syria.  Heard on TV this morning about these ISISCIA rebels obtaining stinger missiles from weapon depots in Iraq....THEY ALREADY HAD THEM!!

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:58 | 4865028 kellycriterion
kellycriterion's picture

It's almost certainly about the failure of the US to follow through in Syria, using air power to take Alawite air and armor. That was almost certainly the agreement . A libya replay.

Benghazi was probably retaliation for failure to follow through on some promise of support. Whic may have led ISIS to demand stingers up front.

Whatever the details, it's a tangled web. Btw do we really care if more of our mercs are killed in Iraq?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:31 | 4865187 d_taco
d_taco's picture

I can not see any reason why Malaki should have Stinger's, so you are absolute right.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:44 | 4864963 p00k1e
p00k1e's picture

Where's the sponsored legislation, Ron.

What a shill.... but he made me feel good.


Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:47 | 4864981 Charles Nelson ...
Charles Nelson Reilly's picture

good point... forgot how he was still a Congressman?!?  Fucking statists like you crack me the fuck up.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:09 | 4865088 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

And your accomplishments for the nation are?  Loser

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:17 | 4865120 p00k1e
p00k1e's picture

Awe, this is where you should be posting Ron Paul accomplishments instead of hot air...   but nobody ever does. 


Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:40 | 4865234 donsluck
donsluck's picture

Do your own research.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:53 | 4865308 Emergency Ward
Emergency Ward's picture


Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:44 | 4864965 nah
nah's picture

Ron Paul should lead America because thats the only way to see the world outside of fooling everyone all the time... he cant change everything anyways its just politics


half measure at full price subsidized by the most to loose bitchez

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:45 | 4864970 Chuck Knoblauch
Chuck Knoblauch's picture



Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:50 | 4865287 Emergency Ward
Emergency Ward's picture

The ever-witty unhinged warmonger Donald Rumsfeld:

"The bulk of the funds for Iraq's reconstruction will come from Iraqis -- from oil revenues, recovered assets, international trade..."

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:46 | 4864973 joego1
joego1's picture

I just read "Lone Survivor" by Marcus Luttrell. It is an amazing story about the dedication of the American military. These scum in D.C. don't deserve to kiss the ground they walk on. It makes me sick to think about the selfless sacrifice that these people have made for Americans only to be wasted. American foreign policy has done nothing but pour gasoline on the flames of instability in the world. I'll die a Ron Paul Libertarian.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:53 | 4864990 TabakLover
TabakLover's picture

This is not directed at you sir, but the American people seem incapable of understanding how critizing the war does not = critizing the our troops.  Southerners (were I live) are particularly lacking in the ability to make this distinction.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:01 | 4865039 joego1
joego1's picture

The current realities should help them come to understand that American foriegn policy has been a dismal failure. If they can't see it in the headlines maybe the gas lines will help them come around to reality.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:06 | 4865071 kellycriterion
kellycriterion's picture

Why shouldn't the mercs be criticized? Why shouldn''t we be criticized? No one is REALLY fooled. Watch how quickly the fantasy will break down if Americans start missing meals.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:56 | 4865322 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

without your troops (as you've elected to take ownership of them)

no wars.

if it were only amrkn mercenaries stirring the shit-pot, the storyline would be that much more evident.

but as long as flag-wavers keep cheering their uni-formed volunteer team players, death, misery and those profiteering from these wars

live on to keep creating more history for commenters to upvote.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:50 | 4865558 2handband
2handband's picture

This. Mindless worship of soldiers is one of the most dangerous things I see around me. These are not defenders of freedom,  folks... they are the enforcement forces of an oligarchy. And they volunteer for tis shit. Fuck them. Myself included... I was one of them once.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:26 | 4865708 Lin S
Lin S's picture

As was I.

No longer.  Eyes wide open.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 16:20 | 4866564 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

good to hear, both posts re: un-listing in the MIC.

tell your friends, let it spread - friends don't let friends volunteer to uni-form & fight dirty wars in other'd peoples countries, on behalf of oligarch profiteering.

if folks want to defend something, let it be your community first.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:53 | 4864999 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

A military coup to restore the Constitutional Republic and sanity is way overdue.

Probably too late now, as too many of the citizenry worship vanity in chains.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:58 | 4865029 falak pema
falak pema's picture

that would be the first time a military coup would achieve that.
Once you bite that cherry you are ready for the Vampire's ball.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:01 | 4865038 magpie
magpie's picture

I don't know...Portugal is the favorite was Chavez in Venezuela...left of center vanquishes old order stuff. Egypt today ? Otherwise if you are more right wing...lots of examples there.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:06 | 4865066 falak pema
falak pema's picture

So Salazar is your model. And Sisi will make Egypt a republic again all on Saudi funds? 

As for Chavez's revolution if he didn't have oil....

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:14 | 4865099 magpie
magpie's picture

Portuguese called their coup a "revolution"...Egypt is far closer to a secularist, liberal form of government than before, inspite of Saudi bloodmoney. Having much oil...can lead to trouble. Don't know what that could mean in the US' case...oil wealth financing it ? La revolucion nationalizing all of it ?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:17 | 4865114 I Write Code
I Write Code's picture

George Washington headed a military coup.

Well sort of.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:10 | 4865092 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

Don't kid yourself and don't act like most people in the military are some of moral force or have a moral and/or ethical compass.  They don't.  Overwhelmingly majority do as they are instructed because without that basic premise the military chain of command fails apart.  There is also a minority that loves the action too. 

US military has been abused since '01 with a neverending set of overseas deployments in active military zones but that is a different issue.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:32 | 4865192 joego1
joego1's picture

A soldiers job is to follow orders and that is all. It is up to our elected leaders to lead with on the moral high ground which something that they have failed to do.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:43 | 4865248 donsluck
donsluck's picture

Of course with an all-volunteer army they CHOSE to get into the killing business.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:37 | 4865502 joego1
joego1's picture

If you are a cop, soldier firefighter you do a great service for your country and community. It's to bad that that service is often clouded by bad decisions made by our "elected" office holders. If our county is directly threatened then we need to fight and that could mean you too if things got bad enough.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:36 | 4865753 fallout11
fallout11's picture

Ah yes, the Nuremburg Defense. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 19:23 | 4867217 joego1
joego1's picture

Obviously you never served.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 14:12 | 4870196 fallout11
fallout11's picture

4th Batt 7th IR, 1990-1994. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:14 | 4865105 I Write Code
I Write Code's picture

I think the US war in Iraq was a good idea, but most of the cost to us in blood and money was done for political correctness.  A shorter, sharper war would have been a whole different thing - and probably saved a lot of Iraqi lives then, and prevented this shitstorm now.  But I don't even blame Bush as much as the JCS, who served neither Bush nor the troops very well.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:30 | 4865181 joego1
joego1's picture

We went to war in Iraq on the wings of a lie. Sadam was no direct threat to us. The real reason is that we feared him selling oil for Euros and that he was stoking Arab nationalism in the region.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:47 | 4865271 donsluck
donsluck's picture

A "sharper" war? The killing of hundreds of thousands Iraqis, "shock and awe" war crimes, torture and indefinite detention, depleted uranium ordinance were not "sharp" enough for you?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:51 | 4865559 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

the question you should ask is why are these dedicated military men and women who are so prepared to train so hard, and keep saying they are willing to fight and die for THIS country, seem more willing to fight and die in a FOREIGN country for a foreign emporer (by that I mean the foreign heads of state, like in Yemen, Saudi, Iraq, Afghanistan etc)?

Why are they not here at home? helping the homeless? protecting and speaking out against police brutality? instead a lot of these vets return home, with a combat mentality, join the police and continue the rampage domestically. I wish they were here defending us, then I would consider them heroes. 

Real heroes aren't the hollywood version of men who go into combat with adverse odds. Real heroes are the ones who were willing to stand up and speak out when everyone is against them, when they are disparaged and spat upon. In spite of it all they give up everything to speak the truth. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 16:27 | 4866586 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

great points raised, deserve asking.

"real heroes" defend the humans they care about/for - they don't need to be shipped halfway 'round the world, destroy other'd peoples communities, in group uni-forms with high-tech weaponry.

"real heroes" are aware how easily those same manufactured weapons will be turned on their own people, whenever "they" give the orders to kill.

pass it on.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 19:25 | 4867227 joego1
joego1's picture

Why do you think it's up to a soldier to decide where and why they fight?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:47 | 4864980 BullyBearish
BullyBearish's picture

It's all about American soldiers dying and getting maimed so rich people can get richer...and most of the rich people are not even Americans!

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:03 | 4865052 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

poor American soldiers, enlistment in the all volunteer army has been supported by vanishing economic opportunity, while rich multinational corporations and banks profit from US monetary policy.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:37 | 4865759 fallout11
fallout11's picture

"Rich man's war, poor man's fight" - American Civil War era saying.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:48 | 4864983 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

Not one MSM has reported the timing:

US releases 5 top terrorist leaders.

A day or 2 later, the terrorists are marching through Iraq.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:50 | 4864989 magpie
magpie's picture

Didn't Caliph Bo Bergdahl declare the "bear was on the loose" ?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:51 | 4864992 JRobby
JRobby's picture

Unfortunately, Congress did not listen.

They like being bullied.

Voted for wars on WMD's non existant.

Voted for bank bailouts in the uncounted trillions.

Sat by in approval of NSA spying.

Approved DHS, new spending in unknown amounts to unknown parties.

etc, etc............


Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:58 | 4865007 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Good question Ron.

After Tony Blair's denial of all neo-con responsibility in this current ISIS resurgence--and consequent US allied regime demise--- we now have the head man of GWB neo-con admin providing the same denial.

Awesome head in the sand neo-con scorpion dance by Paul Bremer. Bomb them again!

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:55 | 4865013 alexcojones
alexcojones's picture

Ron Paul was marginalized by his own party.

Worse, the MSM made Paul the invisible man.

The media is the enemy of the American people.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:04 | 4865057 JRobby
JRobby's picture

"The media is the enemy of the American people."

Part of the oligarchy. Carrying out their assigned tasks. Watch if you want to see what your nieghbors believe. Believe at your own risk.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 04:12 | 4868197 Lookout Mountain
Lookout Mountain's picture

"Watch if you want to see what your nieghbors believe. Believe at your own risk."

One of the most informative comments I have read. The media is not a threat in and of itself. It is only a threat because they have the allegience of the people listening to them.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:07 | 4865072 Blues Traveler
Blues Traveler's picture

 The media is public enemy #1

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 17:15 | 4866776 omniversling
omniversling's picture

James Perloff on the Corbett Report: Media owners and 'reporters' in the CFR:

"In his groundbreaking (and bestselling) 1988 book, The Shadows of Power, author and researcher James Perloff meticulously documents the origins, aims and influence of The Council on Foreign Relations and its members. Today Perloff joins us to discuss the CFR, its acknowledged goal of preparing the American public for a new world order, and how it is working to accomplish that goal through the control of America’s foreign policy apparatus."

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 04:10 | 4868191 Lookout Mountain
Lookout Mountain's picture

The media is merely the mouthpiece of the owners.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 04:10 | 4868192 Lookout Mountain
Lookout Mountain's picture

The media is merely the mouthpiece of the owners.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:56 | 4865019 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

The War on Peace continues.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:57 | 4865023 TabakLover
TabakLover's picture

Wonder what GW Bush is painting a picture of today? 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:38 | 4865224 dark_matter
dark_matter's picture

A self portrait. They may look like dogs, landscapes or still lifes but they are all really just self portraits.


Wed, 06/18/2014 - 04:09 | 4868189 Lookout Mountain
Lookout Mountain's picture

Whatever his owners tell him to paint.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:58 | 4865027 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

i know we bought it, we broke it, but we bought it on the charge card. can't we return it?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:02 | 4865048 Duffy Duck
Duffy Duck's picture

So we may have special forces troops fighting CIA and/or Mossad and/or Saudi-backed "ISIS" guerillas?

Good for no one but the war profiteers and, in the Likud/PNAC/Ziocon view, for "Greater Israel."

We were lied into Iraq by right wing Jewish neocons - not oil companies - whose position papers specifically regarded the fracturing of Iraq and Syria in order to facilitate Israel's regional military {and economic} hegemony. Naturally, Likud prefers Americans pay and bleed for it, and do not care t all about the toll in non-Jewish life {non-Jewish life is treated quite differently in the Torah and Talmud, of course}

Until we can recite those facts, as facts, without equivocation, and without being shouted down by the Godwins Law-yers... further ME wars are inevitable. That they are not "solely" for Israel quite misses the point that the largest amount of political and financial pressure comes from the Israel/Zionist lobby [to include "Christian" Zionists].

Israel wants to lie the US into more wars - have no doubt about that.

Israel used “false flag” operation to recruit anti-Iran militants, report alleges

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:06 | 4865063 kurt
kurt's picture

There is no gorilla in the room.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:04 | 4865055 kurt
kurt's picture

Yes to everything!


Also we should consider installing a Democratic Constitution Republic... in the USA!

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:07 | 4865077 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

regarding that Odom quote, the following should be read:

This article was posted on the Lew Rockwell  site on January 26, 2006

General William Odom Supports the U.S. Empire


Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:07 | 4865080 HamRove
HamRove's picture

Let me tell you what I liked about that Gulf War: it was the first war that appeared on every television channel, including cable. And even though the TV show consisted largely of Pentagon war criminals displaying maps and charts, it got very good ratings. And that makes sense, because we like war. We're a warlike people. We can't stand not to be fucking with someone. We couldn't wait for the Cold War to end so we could climb into the big Arab sandbox and play with our nice new toys. We enjoy war. And one reason we enjoy it is that we're good at it. You know why we're good at it? Because we get a lot of practice.

 This country is only 200 years old, and already we've had ten major wars. We average a major war every twenty years, So we're good at it. And it's just as well we are, because we're not very good at anything else. Can't build a decent car anymore. Can't make a TV set, a cell phone, or a VCR. Got no steel industry left. No textiles. Can't educate our young people. Can't get health care to our old people. But we can bomb the shit outta your country, all right. We can bomb the shit outta your country. Especially if your country is full of brown people. Oh, we like that, don't we? That's our hobby now. But it's also our new job in the world: bombing brown people. Iraq, Panama, Grenada, Libya. You got some brown people in your country? Tell 'em to watch the fuck out, or we'll goddamn bomb them! 

-Love ya George Carlin

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:15 | 4865108 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

Nearly 20 years old and still accurate today. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:25 | 4865161 TabakLover
TabakLover's picture

+ 1000

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:30 | 4865186 Duffy Duck
Duffy Duck's picture

The US is the tip of the International Bankers' spear.

And that's all it is.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:02 | 4865370 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

which makes all uni-formed volunteers, and the Con-gress shills who help write the scripts willing



Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:44 | 4865782 fallout11
fallout11's picture

Henry Kissinger, one of their mouthpieces, told us so 40 years ago: " “Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy.”

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:09 | 4865089 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

Ron doesn't play ball with the various special interest groups hence he is an outcast of the Beltway boyz.


What I find surprising is that so few people cannot seem to comprehend his very simple and straightforward message.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:37 | 4865215 therevolutionwas
therevolutionwas's picture

He dosn't talk like a politician, he dosn't sound like a politician, so the unthinking sheeple don't understand and think he is odd.  And being that the usual politician is very good at saying nothing, yet using key words that indicate the  voter will continue to get the goodies, Ron's message is all the more incomprehensible.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:47 | 4865276 p00k1e
p00k1e's picture

Hmmm....  Susan Atkins said similar statements about Charlie. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:06 | 4865390 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I comprehend his dog-whistle messages.

and I watch where his followers trot in response.

voters, the always hope-full.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:11 | 4865641 Lin S
Lin S's picture


Tue, 06/17/2014 - 16:31 | 4866600 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

everything is held in place

until it falls apart.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 04:06 | 4868187 Lookout Mountain
Lookout Mountain's picture

The American public is unable to escape the Land of Oz that they live in by choice. It will take ugly things to cause them to do so.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 04:07 | 4868188 Lookout Mountain
Lookout Mountain's picture

The American public is unable to escape the Land of Oz that they live in by choice. It will take ugly things to cause them to do so.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:15 | 4865103 elephant
elephant's picture

TPTB are preparing some distraction(s) that can be used to rationalize economic collapse.  They need to be able to put the blame anywhere other than where it belongs.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:17 | 4865115 Porous Horace
Porous Horace's picture

I want to know why Bush and his buddies haven't been put on trial for war crimes, convicted, sentenced to death and executed.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:20 | 4865137 p00k1e
p00k1e's picture

Ron Paul had a strongly worded statement...  just no oomph behind his words. 

Dolalr vote, send him some cash.  

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