This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Ukraine-Russia Near "Serious Conflict" Following Explosion In Largest European Gas Transit Pipeline

Tyler Durden's picture




 

With 2 Russian TV journalists killed in recent days and on the heels of Russia's cutting off Ukraine's gas supply for non-payment, Interfax is reporting that:

  • *EXPLOSION ON UKRAINE GAS TRANSIT PIPELINE REPORTED: IFX
  • *INTERFAX CITES UKRAINE INTERIOR MINISTRY ON GAS PIPELINE BLAST

Witnesses say flames are reaching 200 metres high. Gazprom shares are tumbling on the news (as should European stocks) and Russia's Foreign Affairs Committee Chief Aleksei Pushkov warned relations between Ukraine and Russia have entered a new stage and are "moving closer towards a serious conflict."

As RT reports,

An explosion has struck a pipeline in the eastern Ukrainian Poltava region. Witnesses say flames from the blast are up to 200 meter high, RIA Novosti reports.

The “Brotherhood” natural gas pipeline (Urengoy-Pomary-Uzhgorod) is about one kilometer away from the nearest settlement. No injuries have been reported from the blast. Fire fighting crews have been deployed to the scene.

Operating since 1967, the “Brotherhood” is the largest consumer gas pipeline in Europe, clocking in at 4,451 km. It cuts through Ukraine and runs into Slovakia, where it diverges in two directions; with one part supplying gas to the Czech Republic, Germany, France and Switzerland, and the other to Austria, Italy, Hungary and several countries in the Balkans.

Pipeline faucets are being tuned off as fire fighters still can’t put out the flame.

 

As Bloomberg reports,

Relations between Russia and Ukraine have entered a new stage and are "moving closer towards a serious conflict", said State Duma Foreign Affairs Committee chief Aleksei Pushkov.

 

Russia did not recognise unilateral border demarcation by Ukraine which was "contrary to all norms of international law", Russia's ITAR-TASS news agency quoted Pushkov as saying Tuesday.

 

"An attack on the Russian embassy, an attempted attack on the consulate-general in Odessa, insults to the Russian president, regular arrests of Russian journalists -- I think this is a deliberate decision co-ordinated with the U.S -- all these are links of one chain," he said.

We are sure the explosion/fire on the pipeline will further this sentiment.

Update:

  • *UKRAINE MINISTRY: FIRE BROKE OUT ON GAS PIPLINE, NO EXPLOSION
  • *UKRAINE MINISTRY SAYS INVESTIGATING CAUSE OF GAS PIPELINE FIRE

Coincidental "fire"?

And the purported video of the pipeline..

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:02 | 4864467 youngman
youngman's picture

Like I said earlier..that pipeline will be scrap soon and sold to the chinese..steel is 1 dollar a pound....lots of pounds there

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:04 | 4864474 Dragon HAwk
Dragon HAwk's picture

Russia uses Steel to make ammo, could be a win,  win situation there...

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:07 | 4864488 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

I am so glad I bought some Nat Gas futures yesterday.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:13 | 4864522 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

American gas? Watch it because America can't export it and it's useless for Europe.

Better take northsea gas

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:20 | 4864562 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Bullish for winter coats and coal in the EU!!!

 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:25 | 4864594 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

Looks like they're having a blast over there.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:34 | 4864634 agNau
agNau's picture

Putin

"Europe, the Americans have just turned your gas off."

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:44 | 4864678 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

Marshmallows!

Chocolate!

Graham Crackers!

Mmmmmmmmm Smores!

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:53 | 4864727 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

USSA foreign policy at work... if you can't own it or steal it, you destroy it. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:08 | 4864778 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Fuck with the flow of The Spice and this shit's going to get serious real quick.

I'm not sure how enthusiastic Europe's support for Ukraine is going to remain if it means that they risk losing up to 1/3 of their heat this coming winter.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:46 | 4864871 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

This is the pipeline that matters.

It has the ability to meet 70% Germany's required gas capacity but it runs at only 25% of its capacity (or about 15% of Germany's requirement) currently.

It can rapidly be twinned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream

Info:

http://www.indexmundi.com/germany/natural_gas_consumption.html

http://www.naturalgaseurope.com/nord-stream-pipeline-capacity-utilization

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:53 | 4865001 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

Freut mich zu hören!

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:29 | 4865470 john39
john39's picture

can't they blame this on ISIL?  or am i getting my psyops confused?  admittedly, just can't bother to sort it all out anymore.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:37 | 4865504 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Blame it on the Russians... they hate bi-sexual, kenyan-hawaian,half black semi jews who play golf while pretending to be a USSA president.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:56 | 4865532 Manthong
Manthong's picture

I said it last week.

If I was in the east/southern EU I would be long logs and wool.

One of these days they will figure out that the EU is the problem, not the solution.

But then again, if you drink enough Ouzo and Retsina and pass out on the beach at Gylfada in January you would be cold and pickled but likely, still alive.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:24 | 4865705 Newsboy
Newsboy's picture

How ideal!

Too ideal.

I smell false flag.

Who "benefits"?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 19:18 | 4867205 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

Expect the Germans and Polish to punch a replacement pipeline through before next winter. And nowhere near the Ukaine.

Obama is such a retard.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:36 | 4865211 stoneworker
stoneworker's picture

Since Germany will be supplied via the Nord stream it seems the biggest losers will be Italy, Greece, Hungary...Southern Europe.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:54 | 4865863 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

Then there is the South Stream pipeline which is under construction.

The losers are the Ukrainians whose country is soon going to look like Iraq.

 

http://www.south-stream.info/en/maps/karty/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Stream

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:21 | 4866037 stoneworker
stoneworker's picture

What you may or may not know is that the South Stream has been suspended by the EU commission(well actually Bulgaria after a visit from some US senators). 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 22:20 | 4867669 NoDecaf
NoDecaf's picture

At least there's some furniture left in Greece.

http://www.npr.org/2013/01/22/169931378/under-a-cloud-of-austerity-real-...

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 05:27 | 4868247 Escapedgoat
Escapedgoat's picture

They do have plenty of corrupt Politicians and  Banksters  to BURN.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:26 | 4864875 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

The Ukrainian Kiev Kriminal Kabal is simply following orders from the USSA viceroy, Nudelman.  They are commanded to do anything possible to provoke a war with Russia, so that Ukraine can play the victum and then NATO/USSA will ride in to rescue the day. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:01 | 4865035 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

It's more sinister than that. The politicians see a future opportunity of exporting the US natural gas reserves, so instigating a bunch of chaos along the easily accessible nat gas sources makes it that much more likely for the exportation of US natural gas to occur at a significant profit. 

 

Edit: saw your other post where you stated the same. :-)

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:17 | 4865118 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Problem with that is, we had to import natural gas last year.  We exported some too, but we still had to import.  There is not enough elasticity in supplies to meet current demands at home and to also meet demands abroad.  That is saying nothing about the energy wasted going from gas to LNG for shipping or the infrastructure required to ship the stuff overseas.  If they're trying to set up nat gas exports, it is a move that reeks of desperation. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:25 | 4865163 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

As if the great ones cared about the peasants having natural gas. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:40 | 4865235 Uber Vandal
Uber Vandal's picture

http://ir.eia.gov/ngs/ngs.html

http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/steo/report/natgas.cfm

Natural Gas Inventories

Natural gas working inventories totaled 1,499 Bcf on May 30, which is 737 Bcf lower than the same time last year and 896 Bcf lower than the previous five-year (2009-2013) average.

 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:03 | 4865372 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"They have enough to fight with."

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:00 | 4865353 sushi
sushi's picture

Plus more than three years required to build the necessary infrastucture. That is a long time to be spent huddled in woolen coats burning FRNs to stay warm.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:50 | 4865550 Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

Those are pretty fiery words from the Russian Minister.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:29 | 4864893 Leto II
Leto II's picture

He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:16 | 4865111 Four chan
Four chan's picture

is that from the koran?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:20 | 4865140 SMG
SMG's picture

The novel Dune.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:57 | 4865334 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Which might as well be a loose script for what we're seeing right now.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:22 | 4865452 Z_End
Z_End's picture

The US as House Harkonnen? Or the Emporer?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:32 | 4865481 terex
terex's picture

Exactly!! That's why only Russians kill Russian journalists....

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:41 | 4865524 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

My understanding is that "Harkonnen" was a euphemism for "American."

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:11 | 4865409 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

(obligatory) Fear is the mindkiller.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:51 | 4865561 Duffy Duck
Duffy Duck's picture

"You are a holy people unto the LORD thy God and He has chosen you above all others upon the face of the earth…Therefore when the LORD your God brings you into the land you are to possess and casts out the many peoples living there, you shall slaughter them all and utterly destroy them…You shall make no agreements with them nor show them any mercy. You shall destroy their altars, break down their images, cut down their groves and burn their graven images with fire…"

–Book of Deuteronomy, chapter 14

Strange g0d.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:26 | 4865695 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Strange indeed, straight from the Bible>>> The Serpent told Eve the truth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMEot_ffP7w

 

...kinda puts a whole new twist on the matter.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 15:48 | 4866420 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

Imagine, though, that this was about Detroit instead of Canaan. Makes it harder to reflexively say, "Oh, that's terrible."

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:37 | 4865757 JoBob
JoBob's picture

Gods are very powerful. Did you ever consider that they may be clinically insane at the same time?

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 01:11 | 4868021 BringOnTheAsteroid
BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

If by "clinically insane" you mean "non-existent" then yes, I have considered this. Everyone in a cult is convinced theirs is not a cult, it's the true path. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:30 | 4864899 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

The USSA wants to provoke a war with Russia via Ukraine to block further Eurasasian Integration, to control europe by creating a phony Russian Bogeyman, and to eventually sell overpriced Nat Gas to Europe, and/or to convince them to destroy their water tables and environment via Haliburtions monopoly on fracking chemicals. 

 

USSA does not care if they destroy the Ukraine,and they are happy to 'Fuck the EU' (Nudelman), and they expect minimal blowback since there is little trade and no significant borders between Russia and USSA.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:02 | 4865367 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

If this is true (so true?) then clearly Putin fell for it hook, line and "sink her."

I think not going into Syria is going to be seen as one of the worst "fleeing from decision" ever.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:08 | 4865398 sushi
sushi's picture

Putin appears to be acting with considerable restraint.

Image if Mexico was subject to a coup and the new facist  goons in power to nuke US retirement communities in Mexico and then launched a full military attack against them using both air and ground assets.

You think USSA would sit idly by and twiddle its thumbs?

 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 19:21 | 4867211 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

With Obama at the helm?

Yes.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:03 | 4865371 sushi
sushi's picture

If you understand this, and I understand this, it seems reasonable to presume that there are EU statesmen who also understand this.

I f you know you live under the long reach of NSA you know you need to be very careful what you say. But I suspect there will come a day when FUCK THE USSA enteres the lexicon of a number of EU languages.

 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:14 | 4865104 stoneworker
stoneworker's picture

I could not agree more with your statement. Good bye EU manufacturing one less party to compete with.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 21:26 | 4867524 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

Essentially yes.  This is going to get real nasty  real soon.

 

 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:09 | 4864785 redd_green
redd_green's picture

Who in their right mind would down thumb this comment?  Ok, never mind.   Yeah, does look like they're having a blast.    Go Ukraine!    Tell Russia to eat their own damn gas.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:01 | 4865356 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

 redd_green

the answer to your question "who" is

anyone,

... the pipeline supplies gas to EU countries

 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:38 | 4865207 Eyjafjallajökull
Eyjafjallajökull's picture

For now the flow's been diverted to another branch of the pipe.

Europe still gets the gas.

Unless there's another "fire" elsewhere...

Southstream would give the peace of mind to the EU. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:05 | 4865619 stoneworker
stoneworker's picture

....but the EU comission said that it would be bad for the Eu to have another pipeline from Russia that could potentially save them from shortage if an event like this should happen....how is the EU comission picked?...it seems to me that whoever picks them does not really have the interests of the Europeans in mind.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:43 | 4866165 Sirius Wonderblast
Sirius Wonderblast's picture

What a lot of us have been saying for a long time. Perchance you were being ...droll?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:51 | 4865850 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Good post "Keyser"! Indeed, Germany has already stepped up coal production at the world's largest brown coal mine complex in Germany. New contracts with power plants have resulted in expanded mining operations. Brown coal is very dirty coal, but Germany is mega rich in it, since Natgas is now in question, Germany is already moving to produce more power with brown coal.

So, yes, Coal and fur coats are appropriate in Europe this coming winter.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:45 | 4866170 Sirius Wonderblast
Sirius Wonderblast's picture

So what about all those EU green directives?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:28 | 4864602 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

It's only a matter of time baby.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/07/us-natural-gas-expo...

 

Yes, though Northsea it was. Also starting moving on COG. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:09 | 4864786 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Obama is good for gas.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:32 | 4864914 InjectTheVenom
InjectTheVenom's picture

you mean the 'hot air' type of gas that spews daily from his mouth ?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 16:41 | 4866644 SHRAGS
SHRAGS's picture

Exactly the same process is occurring on the Eastern seaboard of Australia.   The play appears to be designed to link countries with vast excesses of gas and low domestic prices to regions of high prices via LNG tankers.  This is the strategy, globablize the gas price.  Our domestic gas in NSW is going up by 17% in July, with talk of 100+% increases over the next couple of years.  We are being linked to the Tokyo spot price via LNG exports.

Gas companies signed contracts to export gas promising to find enough CSG to cover any domestic shortfall.  This CSG bonanza hasn't happened, but export contracts must me honored! Domestic gas prices to skyrocket.  Large commercial consumers are refused long term supply contracts, essentially putting them at the mercy of the highest regional gas price achievable.

Watch Australian politics be upended by Clive Palmer (Queensland mining coal magnate) when his party takes the balance of power in the Senate in July.  Expect a constitutional crisis.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:37 | 4865217 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

fungible

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:58 | 4865338 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

So Europe has no intention of securing those pipelines then.

Hmmm. Maybe the USA should blow them all up too.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:41 | 4865776 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Europe has little means of securing anything.  They have been defense welfare queens for seven decades, and they have few young men, and even fewer loyal ones.  

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:51 | 4865562 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

"NEAR SERIOUS CONFLICT"  OMFG. I'm so glad it hasn't actually reached that point yet. it's just a little random murdering, shooting, and blowing shit up. Another day with No Assasination. Sigh.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:47 | 4864695 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

200 meter flames?? Theyre going to need bigger marshmallows....

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:55 | 4864729 power steering
power steering's picture

This has reached such a level of seriousness that Putin's going to take off his shirt

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:11 | 4864790 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

Keep him away from the little boys!

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:55 | 4865012 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Pretty sure you meant barry

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:50 | 4864753 HungryPorkChop
HungryPorkChop's picture

BTW: Isn't this ozone negative.  Go long Carbon Credits.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:04 | 4864476 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

And then be rehypothecated up the yin-yang (pun intended) to save China from a liquidity implosion

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:17 | 4864545 SunRise
SunRise's picture

Don't know where you're buying your steel.  Scrap price, especially for the relatively low-grade, easily welded pipeline stuff is 6 to 8 cents @ pound U.S.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:39 | 4864932 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

Shhh! I'm making a killing selling to him at that $1. But then I'm paying 10 cents so what's your source?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:45 | 4864966 Cloud9.5
Cloud9.5's picture

He must have been thinkng about lead.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:15 | 4864821 bubblemania
bubblemania's picture

Gazprom stock is unchanged 

http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/Stock/OGZPY?countrycode=US

According to the fool that wrote this article the stockl is collapsing. Come on Tyler, clean the place up.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:49 | 4864985 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

Don't forget the Criminal CIA trained Al CIA duh Islamist via Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Lybia, Syria, NATO plus the Nationalist Fascist Nazi's in the Ukraine which helped destabilize the region (s) & paved the way toward complete, total political & economic upheaval. Complete destabilization, bedlam, murder, rape & plillage. Chaos.

Shock Doctine style.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:42 | 4866160 ebear
ebear's picture

In the internet age nobody checks their facts, so how is this not acceptable?

So, without checking any facts, here's my theory:

This explosion was probably an accident.  Right Sector using a stolen backhoe to dig a mass grave hit a buried pipeline.

Happens all the time.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:04 | 4864472 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Can someone somewhere just start shooting already!?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:05 | 4864480 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

You took the words right out of Jay Carney's mouth. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:11 | 4864503 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Haus, it's not a computer game. me, I'm fine about the currently low level of trigger-happiness in Ukraine, and I'd be even happier if peace breaks out

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:12 | 4864516 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Have you ever seen a guy and girl -- just friends -- but the sexual tension between them makes everyone around them miserable.  Themselves included.  Everyone knows tthey really need to go ahead and fuck and get it out of their system?   This is kinda the same way. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:16 | 4864542 The man with po...
The man with pointy horns's picture

When Ukraine and Russia get it 'out of their system' there will be a lot of dead people, and millions more living lives of utter misery.

Don't wish for it buddy because that could be you or me if we're not careful.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:20 | 4864560 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

I don't have that much faith in the Ukranian military.  I think that on balance -- if both sides were to "get it out of their system" it might actually save more lives than it costs. 

I think the Ukranian military is grossly incompetant and untrained.  I get the feeling if a half dozen Russian armored divisions rolls across the border, most of it would fall apart, and the Ruskies could go straight to Kiew, and put an end to the bloodshed in the East with fewer casualities than this civil war there we have right now.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:31 | 4864613 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

So essentially you are wishing people to charge to their deaths to make you feel better....

 

Also, I have worked with the Ukrainian military, and your description of them is not accurate in the least. The Ukrainian AirBorne divisions are the core of their doctrine, the armor doesn't do much as the majority of their forces are considered at the same level as our Ranger Battalions. In other words, they thrive in hostile terrain in small units pulling ambushes and anti and plain insurgency operations. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:33 | 4864626 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Pray tell --

Was this before, or after 80% of their leadership and a good chunk (30%) defected after the coup earlier this year?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:37 | 4864635 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

You really do not understand military folk. People moving around to different regions do not change what you have already learned. 

 

I will never foget how many wraps of det cord I need to cut a hole in a cinder block wall. I will also never forget how to set up a hasty ambush, or how to assault an objective. Some things you just never forget.

 

I did not junk you either ;-) 

I'm more than aware that most non-grunts have no idea how wars are actually fought. I'm ok with explaining it.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:43 | 4864674 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

TBF - I know jack squat about fighting in a war. 

I know I am a crack shot at 200 yards with my AK, and hope I never ever have to use that skill.  (Thank you Texas for awesome gun laws)

I am not talking about changing where they live, I am talking about people changing sides.

I start this stuff for the downvotes.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:53 | 4864722 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Go ahead and fire at something 200 yards away, which is interesting as the sights of an AK are declinated in meters. 

Firing at a target while you are a lone individual or a small group is how you get killed. This is why none of you are an actual threat to the US military, and you should simply get the idea out of your head that you can win any protracted fight. You do not know the first thing about how to take on an enemy of that nature. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:56 | 4864738 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Of course not. 

And yeup -- its in meters.  The ranges in the US are in yards. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:08 | 4864780 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I'm not sure you understood NidStyles. knowing how to shoot with a rifle is one of the least important skills in a modern conflict zone. particularly if you want to stay alive. seen this way, shooting range practice alone is the worst preparation you can get

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:12 | 4864801 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

No -

I understood him pretty well.  I also accept he is correct.  I just decided not to respond to a couple points.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:37 | 4865506 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

"If we respond quickly and firmly now, I reckon all the troops will be comfortably home in time for Christmas."

Famous lies said before every major war in recent history.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:55 | 4865011 Jethro
Jethro's picture

Interesting conversation.  Former 0351 here.  Going toe to toe with any organized combined arms unit is a death wish.  That is why the trend in modern warfare has been small scale, guerilla tactics for the last half century. 

If you are a guerilla/freedom fighter/whatever, you attack supply chains, support personnel and sympathizers as targets of opportunity.  You do your homework, set up survillance, plan and organize mission and logistics, execute, and move on to the next target.  Smart guerillas will study what has worked for other insurgent movements, and what failed.  You study your opponent's strenths and weaknesses, and you capitalize on them. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:04 | 4865051 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Two words:

SUPPLY DEPOTS. All major military operations require them. 

 

former 11B here. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:25 | 4865165 A82EBA
A82EBA's picture

former 63B myself, should have been 11B, would have learned more useful skills

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:35 | 4865204 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

You would have had to deal with the BS of being an 11B too. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:39 | 4865512 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Armchair generals think strategy.

Real generals think logistics.  Thats how I've heard it put.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:43 | 4865251 richsob
richsob's picture

Former 8652 (Marine Vietnam) and you're 100% right. I can't get over the clowns I see posting on websites who fantasize about plinking off people at will without serious consequences. My favorites are the tools who think their having several thousands rounds of ammo to defend their house against a well armed/trained military force will mean shit in a for-real SHTF situation. A house can be blown to hell and gone without breaking a sweat. In fact, I can take a house using just a couple of other people to help me and we can use nothing but deer rifles if you give me a few days. Give me what we had to use in Vietnam (which is nothing compared to what the U.S. military has now) and I'll take that house in 5 minutes. Guaranteed. Bottom line: a shooting war is nothing anyone should ever want. It's horrible.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:28 | 4865468 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

You can just call in a 120mm mortar round from one of the numerous tracked vehicles that have them moutned on top and blow out the doors and windows of the whole block and wipe out the house in question. 

 

It amazes me that people think they can fight openly against something like that. 

 

I once watched a JDAM take out a 35 story aprtment complex in iraq. One JDAM turned the whole building into dust. All just to kill one single sniper. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:20 | 4865684 Jethro
Jethro's picture

You know you're fucked when you see a bunch of smart phones pointed in your direction, filming what is about to go down.

35-Story building?  That must've been a doozy!  I bet the debris and shrapnel went out over a mile.  FWIW, that was a good use of a JDAM IMHO. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:32 | 4865485 Z_End
Z_End's picture

True...

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:54 | 4865574 Sedaeng
Sedaeng's picture

former marine as well... I have thousands of rounds and I'm ready for a fight, but it's not with the military/govt... any idiot inside or outside of military training should know it's not a winnable situation...I stock up for the scavengers, the predators, neighbors getting desperate... not the military... it's funny when people assume that any stock pile of ammunition and weapons are  sstrictly for going against the govt...

 

 

 

 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:56 | 4865875 JoBob
JoBob's picture

Semper Fi, Bro.

Like you, I'm far more concerned about foragers and looters. Fighting the military never crosses my mind. First off, it would be futile. Secondly, I would have a hard time taking arms against the only trustworty reminant of the country I grew up in.

Oathkeeper

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 20:34 | 4867413 Sedaeng
Sedaeng's picture

Semper Fi Sir!

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 00:40 | 4867961 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:57 | 4865584 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

A 200 Yard distance is roughly 185 Meters. You set the sights accordingly.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:50 | 4865840 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

 Nobody points out that most AK's are 5MOA accuracy or worse, so 10" at 200 yards. I mean beyond the obvious point you aren't stopping a military unit that way.  Might discourage some much lesser forces if you have coordinated well with neighbors.  

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 14:38 | 4866144 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

NEVER ever butt heads with the US Army you will loose , think supplys and logistics for them.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 15:06 | 4866270 ebear
ebear's picture

"This is why none of you are an actual threat to the US military,..."

In a civil order breakdown situation they won't be shooting at the military, they'll be shooting at each other.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:46 | 4864689 saveandsound
saveandsound's picture

@Haus: you might be right. However, the Ruskies don't want to get into another Afghanistan. I think they leave that to the Americans.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:55 | 4865008 sleigher
sleigher's picture

Is that an example of Russian exceptionalism?  

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:15 | 4865107 CuttingEdge
CuttingEdge's picture

More importantly neither do the Europeans. Its not as if the US foreign policy handbook play in Ukraine since last year hasn't been blatantly obvious. 

So Obammy - those Ukrainians you managed to bury under a heap of shit so Biden's son can get a job? Howzabout you send the lads over to help em out. Because no one in Europe is behind you and your administration's shit-stirring abroad. And that probably includes the majority of NATO senior officers who I cannot see gagging at the bit to go up against the Russians in their own back yard to help out the fascists in Kiev or someone across the pond who taps their leaders' phones.

I wouldn't imagine your taxpayers are currently very chuffed with the $5T and 4500 dead you managed to piss away on that global blueprint of US foreign policy that is Iraq. The idea of sending their kids into another of your fabricated wars to protect the petro$ is probably not high on the hit list.

End result:

Russian annexation of Eastern Ukraine.

NATO does fuck all.

Europe bring another bankrupt country into the EU fold for all those lovely migrants who will work for fuck all.

Obama's ink runs dry on his red marker pen. Actually, it seems to have done that quite a while back.

 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:30 | 4864898 ChiangMai
ChiangMai's picture

Regarding Russian overt intervention, note...

 

Translation of the "must read" article of worldcrisis.ru explaining why there is no Russian intervention in the Ukraine

 

...though above was posted 16 days ago, and the situation is rapidly changing.

 


 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 18:49 | 4867121 Sirius Wonderblast
Sirius Wonderblast's picture

With respect to the exchange below (because I too have not served in the military, so speak without direct experience), but I wonder if the Ukrainian  troops are less than thrilled and lack motivation to shoot at people who are in fact their own countrymen, on behalf of/orders from other people whom they know full well to be rich, corrupt puppets? All that, and soon enough they will be expected to do the same thing out in the freezing cold.

I think Barry's little putsch in Ukraine will fail for the same reason, ultimately, that Napoleon and Hitler failed.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:24 | 4864581 thestarl
thestarl's picture

Chickenshits like you should get off their fat fucking arses and get on the front lines instead of shooting their big fat mouths off.Always easy when its someone else's sons or brothers doing the actual fighting you cunt.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:27 | 4864600 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Shitstain.  Read the whole thread before shooting off your mouth.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:34 | 4864630 sumo
sumo's picture

You're the shitstain, here. And you insist on proving it, again and again.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:35 | 4864639 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

and again? 

Keep it coming douche-nozzle. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:27 | 4864598 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

yes. and have you ever experienced war? lust might be similar to bloodlust, yet it's seriously not the same

note that your comments could be construed as repeated and systematic public incitements to violence by a malevolent public prosecutor. particularly by a German one. this is not a warning or a threat, just a kind admonishment to responsibility in your words

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:31 | 4864615 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

you left out an important word there bro --

immediate. It goes between "to" and before "violence"

Also, outstanding Urteile on this topic (just looked it up) requires a certain amount of specificity. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:36 | 4864642 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

did actually not know that, thanks for the info. btw, what about the new kind of comments I'm reading around? the ones about "throwing Americans out of Germany"?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:39 | 4864654 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

What comments are you talking about?  The ones in this thread? 

I once got over 150 downvotes here for saying essentially the same thing a couple months ago.  Its a slow day at work, and I am wanting to ruffle some feathers.

Or other comments?  Would be interested to see someone promulgating throwing the Amis out.  (Unless its our military, and then I understand that pretty easily)

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:45 | 4864684 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

here and there. I'll save the links if I happen on them again. yes, I remember. isn't it too a form of... trolling? but no, they were of the "hunt the Amis" "Werwölfe" kind

have your fun with your feather ruffling

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:51 | 4864707 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Yeah, that would be interesting.  I would be interested in seeing these people's position on other immigrant populations.  The balance of anti-Americanism I have encountered here in Germany takes 1 of 2 forms;

1) NPD/NSU types, who quickly shut up when explain "Meine Vorfahren kommt aus alte-Preußen." "Echt!? Wo genau?" they quiz me a little and it normally ends in "Oh tut uns leid ... blahblahblah."

2) Communists who are either bitter about 1991 still, or hate the fact that USD is flooding into east Germany, making it nice again, and raising the rents. 

But if there is another strain of it -- I am all ears.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:26 | 4865162 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

Having served in the US military in Germany, I am unable to understand exactly why we are still here, nearly 25 years after the end of the USSR.  Don't get me wrong, I have friends who work at one of the local bases, and it supports the local economy, but I can't see how this is in the best interests of the US.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:37 | 4865212 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Yeah, it is like we have occupied Europe. But everyone knows we wouldn't do that. We are the good guys. Yessiree!

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 12:42 | 4865529 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Gaveling - it's a mistake to think US 'leadership' has been working in the interests of the American people. If you look at things in terms of being rewarded for fulfilling advancement of a globalist new world order it makes more sense. Why so many pointless wars & so much debt (to private banksters) ? -- To bring down America.

Yes, this theory to explain the actions of US leadership sounded 'nutty' to me also, a few years ago. But the thought that they were just making 'stupid mistakes' just didn't explain it. The same agenda has been followed by both branches of the demorepublicraps. And they have actually spoken & written on this, but most of the public is blinded by years of propaganda which begins in the 'schools'.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:46 | 4864683 sumo
sumo's picture

This shitstain could be just a below-average troll, a confined to his mom's basement. Or he could be an example of things to come. Sooner or later, TPTB are going to try to disrupt ZH with an army of minimim wage shitstains. This one could be from the advance party.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:47 | 4864694 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

You caught me.  I actually work for MediaMatters.  I got sick of Disqus-trolling on Infowars, so I decide to come over here and give it a shot. 

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:47 | 4864979 MeMongo
MeMongo's picture

Of course in your chilidish war mongering little comment you fail to mention two individuals achieving orgasm is far preferential to a bunch of innocent men, women, and children trying to hold their bloody guts in after being fragged by the enemys white phosphorus. Think the Palestinians are obsessed with fucking whilst dodging hot white phosphorus? 

Haus=cretin!

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:13 | 4864518 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

The death toll in eastern Ukraine has already topped a thousand.

We are getting close to a justifiable Russian intervention, not boots on the ground.

A no fly zone ,and elimination of Uke artillery by missile strike.

The Iraqi govt.i is now history for the same reason as Saddam.Threatening

the petrodollar standard.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:17 | 4864541 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

No -- I am not talking about this silly foreplay.  I am talking Russian Army vs Ukranian Army. 

Lets see the West put their money where their mouth is.  My bet -- we do jack.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:23 | 4864576 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Its not about Ukraine anymore.

Its about the Eurasian trading bloc,keeping europe out of it, and the petrodollar.

Ukraine is merely a battle in that war.

Follow the strategy, not the tactics.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:41 | 4864662 tonyw
tonyw's picture

Precisely, the US does not care one iota about Ukraine, it is encouraging its puppet government in ukraine to provoke the russians as much as possible.

There is hardly any reporting in the western MSM and most of that simply parrots the government line.

No mention of the daily artillery bombardment of civilians.

Also the US does not care one iota about europe, they just want to ensure there are no other threats to their hegemony.

The best thing would be for europe to "defriend" the US and link up with an eurasian trading block.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:50 | 4864703 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Nuke suicide.

The US would not hesitate to nuke europe if it was that or the petrodollar.

I think that has been made plain to europes leaders as well.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 01:06 | 4868014 JustUsChickensHere
JustUsChickensHere's picture

If germany did join Russia/China and defriend the US, no nukes would fly ... if nukes did fly, that would trigger MAD ... and all the elites know that is a bad, bad idea.

The biggest risk of a nuke trigger remains a communications breakdown ... and some lone idiot starts it all. As I recall, it is on record that we have been moments away from that 9 times since Hiroshima ... the 10th could easily be the last.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:26 | 4864597 thestarl
thestarl's picture

Here's your chance for glory motherfucker but I know you would'nt have it in you.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:28 | 4864604 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

You're not very good at this.  Try harder.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 13:11 | 4865644 Duffy Duck
Duffy Duck's picture

Gosh, you're boring as fuck.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:24 | 4864587 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

"The Iraqi govt.i is now history for the same reason as Saddam. Threatening the petrodollar standard."

Israel has no role?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:12 | 4864802 Winston of Oceania
Winston of Oceania's picture

Did you mean the Russian govt? The bear is in the trap like it or not.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:26 | 4864877 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

No, Iraqi.

ISIS is a US proxy.

Maliki was getting way too friendly with China and Russia.Was about to sell oil

in yuan and/or euros/rubles.

Bye bye.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:57 | 4865020 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

ISIS is a US proxy. That still doesn't save the US embassy in Baghdad or the people inside thaat compound. They are expendable. I mean if the USA would nuke Europe to save the petrodollar they sure as hell won't care about losing 5500 Americans iether.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 11:10 | 4865091 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Follow the script here.

Its an election year, Obozo saves the embassy personel and deposes Maliki.

Obozo might be as dumb as a rock,but his puppetmasters are not.

Games within games is SoP.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:21 | 4864559 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

The world could do without the senseless slaughter. But, if you're so gung ho, why don't you just fly on over there and start the shooting yourself?

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 09:23 | 4864575 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

See my response above.  My original statement is based on the premise that

1) No one else would get involved saved Russia and Ukraine
2) The Ukranian military would desert when a half dozen Russian armored divisions roll across the border.

Tue, 06/17/2014 - 10:10 | 4864787 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

I've been up-arrowing Haus-T on gumption alone.  I love when someone wakes up ready to fight anyone, and everyone.  And I agree, the US "mobilization" looks no bigger than would a support crew for evacuation of citizens and assets.  The Area Formally Known As Iraq is back to being a wildcard, which is how Putin would have it, and to jackboot, what remains of the Ukraine would be folded up like an extra pair of jeans in a weekend bag. 

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!