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The Sunni-Shiite Divide Explained In 100 Seconds

Tyler Durden's picture


The battle between Islam's two major branches began over 1400 years ago when the Islamic prophet Mohammad died and the two sides clashed over who should succeed him. This centuries old 'war' is once again threatening Iraq's (and indeed the Middle East - and thus the world's) stability. The Washington Post's senior national security correspondent Karen DeYoung explains in 100 seconds just how we got here...



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Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:07 | 4868936 HedgeAccordingly
HedgeAccordingly's picture

Nuke these fuckrrs!


Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:09 | 4868938 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

We need another General Pershing !

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:13 | 4868953 sushi
sushi's picture

Saddham Hussein would have dealt with these problems singlehandedly. Time to put him back in charge.


Oh wait!


Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:21 | 4868991 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

They'll kill each other for the priviledge of ridding the world of the infidels.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:27 | 4869025 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

Ah, let's see 100 seconds to explain a divide hundreds of years in the making.

Look, unless you're willing to swear allegiance to their god, you're nothing more than a resting place for their sword.

We are not going to solve this, so let's get the hell out and protect our own boarders and solve our own issues before dictating to the world how they should live.

The hubris of the current stack of pols and banksters is nauseating...


Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:34 | 4869049 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

it takes a certain type of idiot to believe in an invsible man in the sky who is biased towards certain groups of people but not others.  The divide between Shia and Sunni is no more illogical than most of the bible, torah, etc...


Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:43 | 4869116 I am more equal...
I am more equal than others's picture




There is a 'who' being cloaked here.  Religion is the mask that covers the 'who' (not talking about the british band).  When we find out the who we will know what we are truly up against.  ISIS has leadership.  Who is the ultimate leader?  The story of their conflict - history - is used to leverage fodder for cannons. 

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:48 | 4869159 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

I think the truth is starting to show through the cracks.  The Saudis created Isis and AQ and with help from the US use it to destabilize the region.  The US could give a shit who they're backing as long as no strong popular leaders are allowed to emerge to oppose them, which is made easier by the ethnic tensions in the area.  Iraq, Syria, Lybia, Afghanistan, Egypt, Iran, all clusterfucks resulting from US intervention.  If it wasn't so evil it would be brilliant.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 11:31 | 4869424 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

Listen Sunni, no one in the USA gives a Shiite about it.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 11:48 | 4869543 Thought Processor
Thought Processor's picture



After watching this one thing is certainly evident-  we on this planert need to transition to green energy asap.  Whatever the cost to the economy at large.


Wishful thinking perhaps.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 12:18 | 4869682 pakled
pakled's picture

Unfortunately it is wishful thinking. But it should be thought of anyway. My best take after following this over time is that we already do have (or are close to) have green technologies (better than solar/wind) that simply aren't getting to market because they are a threat to the oil revenue stream.. and the pockets that stream goes into. Hopefully (wishfully), a way can be found to bring new technologies online without having to wait until the existing system collapses and we spend a generation or two in the 19th century.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 13:20 | 4870038 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

Let's take the argument to the individual and personal responsibility. I have reigned in my lifestyle over the years and am taking steps to insulate myself and my family from this madness as much as possible. I am currently building the system to take my well off the grid, thereby being able to pump water without the costs of power from the grid. I already grow quite a bit of my own food, have chickens and fresh eggs, and a host of other things to be more self reliant.

The notion of green energy is only wishful thinking if viewed in terms of whole house systems and commercially available systems linked to the current lifestyle paradigm. Take it piecemeal and little by little you become more self reliant and less attached to the system.

my .02, for what it's worth.


Wed, 06/18/2014 - 14:08 | 4870252 pakled
pakled's picture

Doin' the same as you friend. Since 2004. That is exactly what I meant by 19th century. Agrarian existence. Except a bit more for those who plan.

The two concepts are not mutually exclusive.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 22:24 | 4872118 franciscopendergrass
franciscopendergrass's picture

The ironies of modern convenience wrapped in technology means less freedom and more regulation (in term so using monopolies/oligopolies such as telecom, nat gas, water and gasoline)  Going back to the stone ages (which I admire) is the only surest way to ensure liberty.  What a fucking sad state of affairs.  

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 12:58 | 4869931 The_Dude
The_Dude's picture

Replace 'green energy' with 'safe nuclear' (not 1950's tech built on fault lines and exposed to tsunamis) and we are likely to get somewhere.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 12:09 | 4869646 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

I read an interesting take where an author speculated that Semitic people are more closely related to Neanderthals than the rest of us.

Neanderthals were of course suspicious, protective, aggressive...

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 12:39 | 4869794 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

I've met many neaderthals, so I can confirm the author's speculation.  Oh wait, no I haven't.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 14:18 | 4870342 Duffy
Duffy's picture

That would mean Arabs, and not, for the most part, Ashkenazi Jews, you know...


Wed, 06/18/2014 - 12:36 | 4869778 Freddie
Freddie's picture

And who are the House of Saud (really) and who created them?

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:45 | 4869117 Manthong
Manthong's picture

“The Association of Muslim Scholars” ..

izzat anything like jumbo shrimp, military intelligence, living dead or guest host?

Islam lost its credibility  as a religion the moment the "prophet" penetrated a 9 year old girl (or maybe when he beheaded 600 or so Jews .. take your pick of atrocities).

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 11:15 | 4869320 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Oh, F me with your left hand.

Got towels or rags for the head.. how about a burka for your subservient women?

Just shut up and clip a kid’s clit or whatever.

Religion of pieces, yes.. strap on a bomb belt.. there is carnal paradise waiting for you.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 13:34 | 4870116 Dublinmick
Dublinmick's picture

A mohel sucking on a circumcision is the ticket to paradise.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 12:33 | 4869760 Redneck Makin-tosh
Redneck Makin-tosh's picture

To be fair, without witnesses to the contrary, the "prophet" could have made up some shit about consumating the marriage in order to keep the peace/ power/ conversation going. 

The behaviour of Aisha's father in the whole affair (the character the wikipedia says the Sunni's accept as the big Ms legitimate successor) appears to be far more sinister.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 13:27 | 4870084 Dublinmick
Dublinmick's picture

"The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles? ~John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, 20 June 1815"

Unfortunately the more ordinary style of consciousness will always use the the fables presented to the masses to discredit all pathways to truth, (religion means pathway to truth). The more advanced thinkers, Mayans, Natie Americans,  Buddhists etc of the ancient systems realized the fundamental nature of the universe is the life force, nature or the light we see when the atom is split.

The Hindu understands this as well as others. The sounds of the universe or Shruti can be heard by simply placing a sea shell to ones ear. They were always there and always will be there even after man and the earth or no more. This life force will continue on building more planets, univertses and creatures of the finite world.

It is really so simple but unfortunately a pure truth that is always under attack.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 11:44 | 4869518 MidwestJester
MidwestJester's picture

I'm sorry, but you're using logic and are going to have to stfu. Thanks! /sarc

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 13:33 | 4870110 layman_please
layman_please's picture

"We are not going to solve this, so let's get the hell out and protect our own boarders and solve our own issues before dictating to the world how they should live."


if you wouldn't have the whole world to exploit, your corrupt rulers will make you their slaves. good luck with that!

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 14:20 | 4870351 Duffy
Duffy's picture

typo there - you meant "hoarders," I'm sure.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:28 | 4869026 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

"Saddham Hussein would have dealt with these problems singlehandedly. Time to put him back in charge.


Oh wait!"


Yep....too late.  That genie is out of the bottle....because we saw our future going into the toilet due to Peak Cheap Energy and the need to have a forward base of operations in the Middle East in order to secure whats left of Cheap Energy.

Now we have unleashed Hell over there....we have a convenient excuse to always have a Boogyman to secure further military spending and adventures over there....without having to look like we are ALWAYS going to be there due to the above reasons of securing the last remains of Cheap Energy.


Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:56 | 4869221 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Outside of a few architectural achievements and some language and math stuff 1000 years or so ago, it’s been downhill for those clowns ever since.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:36 | 4869072 RaiZH
RaiZH's picture

It's okay!!! Gaddafi will unite the Arab world and we will have stability.


Oh fuck! 

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:15 | 4868957 john39
john39's picture

not as simple as sunni vs. shiite.  whatever isis is (spawn of evil CIA/Mossad/SA), it is not Sunni Islam:

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:50 | 4869174 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

It is......but it's the difference between Southern Baptists and Snake Handling Baptists.  They're all Protestants.  But even Southern Baptists would say that's not OUR kind of Baptists.

And Sunnis vs Shiite is Catholic vs Protestants.  Or the other way get my drift.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 11:39 | 4869483 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Catholics and Protestants figured out a way to settle their differences after a few hundred years. Muslims have been slaughtering each other continuously, in an escalating fashion, since the moment the "prophet" died over a millennium ago. The Iran-Iraq war was an absolute bloodbath of senseless killing and highly representative of what this deranged ideology is all about: death, ignorance, destruction, and insanity.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 12:50 | 4869880 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

The Iran-Iraq war was an absolute bloodbath of senseless killing...

To be fair the bloodbath was between two psychotic regimes that were put into power directly by US/British interests.  It is hard to say what the leadership of the Middle East would look like if not for constant Israeli/US/European intervention.  I'm of the belief that most people just want to get by and live life, and that includes the majority of Muslims.

The Saudi RF and all the other despots have been forced on the Middle East.  The radicals who grow from tehir tyranny ensure that the folks just trying to live over there never have a decent option.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 13:00 | 4869937 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

Unless I'm way out to lunch, the Iran Iraq war had the fingerprints of the west ALL over it, which automatically throws ideology on religious grounds out the window. The US has never gotten over Iran getting the Western backed tinpot dictator out of power and the iran iraq war at least in my view had an echo of that in it.


The fact is Iran hasn't attacked anyone pre emptively since they were Iran. Despite the media narrative Iran isn't anywhere near as brutal as the west says. As far as I know they have the largest population of jewish residents in the area outside of Israel, and they were offered to be paid to move there and they chose not to.


THe savage muslim meme is an easy point to take. The only hitch is, at least in the last 100 years the West has been intimately involved in "Radical Islam" so that alone says there is more to the story than a group of people fighting over who gets Mohammed's job after he dies.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 14:33 | 4870391 Duffy
Duffy's picture

The Iraqi attack on Iran had little to nothing to do with a Sunni/Shia religious war - you just don't know what you're talking about.

also, there were long periods without signficant inter-Muslim conflict, for example, under the Ottomans.  Most of the last millenium featured conflicts between Christian sects.  The feuds between England and Spain and England and France had much more to do with the Protestant/Catholic schism than the US-engendered {and supplied} Iraq-Iran war had anything to do with Sunni versus Shia per se.

 As for a deranged ideology - guess which religion represents the Creator as directing the following:\

‘You are a holy people unto the LORD thy God and He has chosen you above all others upon the face of the earth…Therefore when the LORD your God brings you into the land you are to possess and casts out the many peoples living there, you shall slaughter them all and utterly destroy them…You shall make no agreements with them nor show them any mercy. You shall destroy their altars, break down their images, cut down their groves and burn their graven images with fire…"

What happens when that religion gets power, money, and nuclear weapons?

Arguably, Jewish colonialist treatment of the indigenous people of Palestine is merely fundy/orthodox Judaism free to practice itself.



Wed, 06/18/2014 - 14:38 | 4870462 prmths2
prmths2's picture

Emo Phillips expands in 76 seconds:


Wed, 06/18/2014 - 13:33 | 4870114 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

"not as simple as sunni vs. shiite.  whatever isis is (spawn of evil CIA/Mossad/SA), it is not Sunni Islam:"


indeed not, and as a fan of zerohedge, I'm embarrassed by their coverage of this. I would expect this superficial drivel on everything from mslsd to faux news, but not here.



Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:42 | 4869108 Payne
Payne's picture

Is it really any different than Irish Catholics and English Protestants ?  big difference is resources OIL, buy lots of weapons, tv time soldiers etc.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 11:42 | 4869496 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

That conflict is less about religion, and more about how the English have been shitting on the Irish for 400 years, and the resulting consequences.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 11:12 | 4869314 losses mount
losses mount's picture

I think what we need is a new religion, one based on a Planck energy density limit.

This automatically leads to a "source" of negative mass that exhibits the properties of omni presence, and omnipotence, amoungst others; everything else having positive mass comes into being and again passes out of being and is set initially at one Planck mass to decay over space-time until it eventually ends up nothing again.

In doing so one eliminates the "big bang" thinking based on the premise of singularities. In my view singularities are far more far fetched than the existance of a God.

If God had calculable properties there would be nothing to argue about.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 11:45 | 4869525 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

If man could calculate the properties of God, then man would BE God.

Since man has very limited sensory and reasoning faculties, that will NEVER happen.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 12:05 | 4869622 losses mount
losses mount's picture

I disagree; if I can calculate the properties of sand does that make me sand?

Secondly, although our capacities are limited, the capacity of mathematical reasoning knows no bounds. I suggest.

Thirdly, maybe it already has happened.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 12:29 | 4869727 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Good analysis here.  ISIS is designed to be a threat to Iran.

Counterpunch appears to be pretty awesome like ZH. I think Alexander Cockburn had founded Counter Punch. 

This is also good:

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 13:08 | 4869965 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

Thanks for the link Freddie.  That counterpounch article was exceptionaly interesting and they are definitely getting added to my reading list.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 12:30 | 4869744 tradebot
tradebot's picture

Chicken Shiite

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:19 | 4868982 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

no, that would be cruel.

Just castrate the entire male population and detroy all the mosques.

It's that easy and we'll have resolved all those issues in a peacefull manner.


Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:22 | 4869000 Surging Chaos
Surging Chaos's picture

What the hell is going on with all these accounts that have been popping up these last few days saying the government should nuke it all? The only person I think would actually support such a repulsive idea would be Krugman, because it would be broken windows going full retard.

Statists gonna state.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 11:33 | 4869441 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Frustration of impotence?

(Though hedgely might be using over-the-top sarcasm.)

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 11:48 | 4869539 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Don't be absurd. There is no profit in nuclear war, only in limited war! That's why we have so many small wars going at all times.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 12:38 | 4869788 pakled
pakled's picture

What the hell is going on with all these accounts that have been popping up these last few days saying the government should nuke it all...


Noticed the same thing. New accounts, eh.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 16:34 | 4871011 seek
seek's picture

I was going to mention the same thing. They're not all new accounts -- some are well seasoned -- but most have virtually no comment history and then suddenly they' appear and advocating things as extreme as it can be.

So... what's going on? Sock puppets, that's what's going on. The question is which flavor of month they are. Cui bono from such extreme (and black and white) positions?

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 20:31 | 4871767 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

The internet water army marches on!  Do such comments make ZeroHedge look more extreme?  (probably the intent, at any rate!)

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 12:41 | 4869791 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

This is accurate on the surface, but these issues in the middle east aren't plain shia sunni. They are rooted in Wahhabism - the radical death cult style islam espoused by Saudi Arabia.


For the quillionth time, the majority of sunnis hate the likes of ISIS as much as anyone. AGAIN, the Syrian Arab army s mostly sunni as an example of this and they kill hundreds of terrorist radical sunnis DAILY.


Wahhabism stands alone on many of its principles and practices and you not mentioning that misses the boat. Boiling this conflict down to a superficial shia sunni conflict embarrases you guys journalistically and serves to misinform readers in the same way the MSM does.

These guys consider anyone who doesn't live and practice exactly and precisely what they practice apostates.


It's great to know what the difference between shia and sunni is for cliff claven style odd fact dropping to the average mass of retardates, but it is a distraction from the fact that the problems we are seeing today is because of 1 brach of radical sunni islam which sunnis generally hate being fostered around the globe by saudi arabia AND the west.


Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:09 | 4868939 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

The strawman argument of the century to justify western intervention...

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:14 | 4868954 813kml
813kml's picture

Shhh, or else the eventual US occupation of the UK can't be pinned on secular differences over the next Doctor Who.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 11:55 | 4869582 ironsky
ironsky's picture

Why would the US want to occupy the UK when it already has Puerto Rico?

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 12:33 | 4869764 813kml
813kml's picture

For its free healthcare.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 13:42 | 4870154 Dublinmick
Dublinmick's picture

It is very hard to occupy and entity to which you owe 18 trillion dollars to.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 13:10 | 4869998 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

Well made point. The only thing I would add is that, the west interfered on the back end and now is poised on the front end. When I hear Charles KRauthammer quote General Jack Keene that "there needs to be air strikes without respect to the syria iraq border" it reinforces where the neo con position always has been.


I gotta say, Berri doing fuck all but golfing is almost refreshing. Our best path to fixing this would be to nuke riyadh and stop arming al quaeda.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:15 | 4868944 Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

I don't know about the rest of you, but sometimes, when I hear someone say that the sun rises in the east when I know for a fact it rises in the east-southeast, I want to cut their fucking heads off and pitch their convulsing bodies into mass graves, riddle them with bullets, and torture their families.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:19 | 4868980 sunaJ
sunaJ's picture

Potato/potahto...let's call the whole thing off.


Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:10 | 4868945 Cattender
Cattender's picture

whatever,we went over there to STEAL their Fucking oil.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:16 | 4868967 jay28elle
jay28elle's picture

Steal?  Oh, no, silly... we are just using oil they were not using, or would never have a need for.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:17 | 4868971 jay28elle
jay28elle's picture

...and assure they would never have a need for.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 13:15 | 4870018 RaiZH
RaiZH's picture

Yeah, Heroin addict would say the same shit...

... you are hooked on oil and one day you will be fucked. 

Good luck.  

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:25 | 4869003 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture


They can sell their oil to anyonethey want, as long as it is in USD....

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:16 | 4868964 Toolshed
Toolshed's picture

That video explained squat.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:19 | 4868981 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

100 seconds are not much, after all. it would be as difficult to explaing the Christian schisms in that little time

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:22 | 4868998 edotabin
edotabin's picture

Man-made horseshit. Nothing is holy. People fuck everything up.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:26 | 4869014 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

perhaps. yet some people hold some things/concept for holy. and that they do have this perception - aka belief - is a fact

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:41 | 4869106 schatzi
schatzi's picture

Next we can expect a twitter post on how to solve all the world's ills.

What's up with reducing complex issues into simplistic summaries? I blame the new internet generation.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:16 | 4868968 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

And this concerns us why...... ?

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:24 | 4869006 Confused
Confused's picture


Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:17 | 4868970 CPL
CPL's picture

One dad, two sons and a caliphate...anyone can stop me if this all seems familar somehow.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:34 | 4869062 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Ali was a cousin, no sons IIRC. I can't quote sura and verse, but again, IIRC, the Qur'an calls for leaders to be chosen from amongst the whole and not a bloodline inheritance.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 11:13 | 4869319 CPL
CPL's picture

Considering that the Koran was written well after Mohammad and Al Khdir.  And Mohammad as a man specifically told his followers to follow his word by spirit, to offer no pictures of himself, to ask for his anonymity and privacy.  So obviously the first reasonable reaction to that request was go build an empire.

How likely is it that the whole story is written down and given as is?  Or even the people stating their position are actually the people in the bloodline, not like DNA tests were around then.  And history if full of pretenders, European history is famous for it, don't for one second believe it's only in one region.  Stupidity and greed are international.  lol

Anycase, like most religions that find themselves going through schisms.  It always (always.) drives the branch offshoots to war.     Typically to meet someone else's defined problem, which usually involved money, land or both.  Mohammad has lots to say about other people's problems in that situation.  Mostly it was "Screw that noise, I got other things to do", because he watched the European churches going through the same thing in that time frame. 

Sounds like another guy I think, no?  Guy with no money, helping people and getting by.  I understand that an empire was built for that guy.  And by golly, that turned out fantastic didn't it?  Peace everywhere today.  Horray!  Oh wait...

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 11:49 | 4869537 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

Couldn't agree more.

God(s) have been used to control people by other people since humans became self aware and able to express that self awareness to others.  

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 12:07 | 4869633 CPL
CPL's picture

To simply see it all you need to do is look out a window and understand that in terms of physics, quantum physics specifically.  That you and whatever you are looking at is just energy.

  • Six "flavors" of quarks: up, down, bottom, top, strange, and charm;
  • Six types of leptons: electron, electron neutrino, muon, muon neutrino, tau, tau neutrino;
  • Twelve gauge bosons (force carriers): the photon of electromagnetism, the three W and Z bosons of the weak force, and the eight gluons of the strong force;
  • The Higgs boson.

That is; a cat, a rock, a piece of tupperware or a person is made of all of the 'stuff' listed, and that's only what's been defined over the past couple of years.  Now what makes a cat, a cat or a rock, a rock or you you.  No clue. 

But the question certainly gets people up in the morning to go figure it out and has helped philosophy majors get laid for millenia.  Anything else is a complex marketing effort to package something people might not be ready for and judging by history does more harm than good at times.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 09:33 | 4873256 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Wow. You should perhaps change the water in your bong.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:53 | 4869189 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

"One dad, two sons and a caliphate"



Dad:  American Republic

Son 1 :  Democrats

Son 2 : Republicans

Caliphate:  Fascism 

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 11:29 | 4869406 CPL
CPL's picture

Duality is easy to market as well because if you define two offers you can pretty much get people to believe that they are making a choice.  It's why most of the world is mystified about the American political system of red and blue.  Both parties are the same people and offer nothing in terms of a solution.  It's just a brand, like coke or pepsi.

In religious contexts the idea of duality is found in all "new" cultures somewhere.  Able and cain.  Apollo and Dyonisus.  Bible -> by-bal -> by Ba'al, Enki and Quran -> Qur-an / Anu.  Osirius and Horus.  Thor and Loki.  etc.

As if there is a side to having faith.  It is either there, or it is not.  But if you are building temples, it's a great way to fill those seats and get cash flow moving.  Until someone steps on someone's toes, then all hell breaks loose.


Wed, 06/18/2014 - 11:46 | 4869532 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

(seeming) opposites attract.  or repel.

dualities are the basis of man-made histories, taking "sides" in the mind, then acting to defend "your side" is all the stories tell, repeated endlessly,

until one re-members the yin-yang truths,

Yin and Yang are mutually-arising, interdependent, and continuously transforming, one into the other. One could not exist without the other, for each contains the essence of the other.

active mind. . . mind at rest.  all is still mind, until mind is still.

within this, men act, war, make histories.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 12:23 | 4869705 CPL
CPL's picture

Even in tao it is overlooked that two make one and find the balance with the two.  It isn't a question of defining 'centre'.  A centre always shifts with the situation given at that time.  The balance is all that matters or restoring it.   Sometimes that requires a certain amount of unloading of bad ideas to make it happen.

Example in Justice; the 'centre' 1000 years ago, as in what was defined as reasonable.   When justice was served when catching a thief.  The thief's hand would be cut off and nailed to the village square announcement pole.  See perfectly reasonable.  lol! 

So obviously things change over time.  Today it's a bit better organized and there are lots of hard working people in law enforcement that struggle with defining that balance of what the spirit of law offers.  Then establishing the practice of it so it fits with the given situation of society.

Like wicking a needle and thread.  The thread goes through the centre of the eye of needle because the situation calls for it.  That and it's next to impossible sewing a button back on a shirt any other way.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 12:43 | 4869818 pakled
pakled's picture

Don't forget the main duality (behind god and man)... male / female

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 13:18 | 4870019 CPL
CPL's picture

I'm keeping it to specifics that offer some referential examples that anyone can look up.  I'll avoid the whole politics of sex today, the word has been out on that because it's not really that important.  It simply is what it is.  Freud once said sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. 

Men are men.  Women are Women.  All shapes, sizes, colours, personalities and preferences.  The situation takes care of itself because it's how everyone is wired up on the "hardware" level.  How the hardware gets used, temple or amusement park or somewhere in between, there's benefits and costs that are recognizable.

Here's the weird thing about when people go into the female/male dichotomy I've noticed.  Everyone's got something to say about it, good, bad or indifferent.  Now...  What would you replace it with? 

  • Mitosis and meiosis?  You one day stop and decide you want kids so you cut off your finger and grow someone in vat from it.  Sounds as much fun as watching paint dry.  Plus there are severe complications in cloning that are not fixable, copies of copies of copies, something always gets lost and stays missing.
  • or Autogamy;'s where a species fucks itself and has baby by way of self fertilization.    "What you do last night?" becomes pretty predictable, because no one would ever leave the house if that were the case.

However in terms of the science of biology.  Everyone is born female.  Everyone.  it's only weeks after conception that a sex establishes itself.  That's biology.  Doesn't matter if we are talking about fish or people.  Anyone you've met, started as a girl in the womb.

Certain genes on the Y chromosome (if present) are activated at around eight weeks and male-associated hormones, chiefly testosterone, are produced that act on some cells to start forming male-specific organs. Without these hormones kicking in, which is the case  in XX embryos when no Y chromosome in present, the cells in the developing embryo go on to form female-specific organs. This means that fertilized embryos under normal circumstances will develop female-specific sex organs unless a hormone cue is activated that signals otherwise. 

And it's not even predetermined either.  Sex ratio's can change with temperature.  What a person is eating.  Lifestyle.  Dozens of reasons the Y chromosome doesn't kick off the shot of testosterone or the timing is off, late or early makes a difference as well.  Again all sorts of stuff.


Wed, 06/18/2014 - 13:36 | 4870131 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture


Men are men.  Women are Women.

except when they're not.

. . .nature presents us with sex anatomy spectrums. Breasts, penises, clitorises, scrotums, labia, gonads—all of these vary in size and shape and morphology. So-called “sex” chromosomes can vary quite a bit, too. But in human cultures, sex categories get simplified into male, female, and sometimes intersex, in order to simplify social interactions, express what we know and feel, and maintain order.

So nature doesn’t decide where the category of “male” ends and the category of “intersex” begins, or where the category of “intersex” ends and the category of “female” begins. Humans decide. Humans (today, typically doctors) decide how small a penis has to be, or how unusual a combination of parts has to be, before it counts as intersex. Humans decide whether a person with XXY chromosomes or XY chromosomes and androgen insensitivity will count as intersex.

and while human bodies present in many variables, the duality of "man/woman" is required for cultures to maintain their grip on the human minds,

and so the meme is maintained, by repetition and rote memory, even though some bodies hold their own truths.

the Tao's perspective is a seed of the Other in everyOne, no true separation, non-duality as Truth.

everything else?  Illusion.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 13:48 | 4870185 Dublinmick
Dublinmick's picture

There is much truth in Hinduism, as it simply means the search for truth. All sides of an issue are vigorously debated. Who can be against that other than maybe 1%


As many sages have intimated even and atheist can be a Hindu for he also has embarked upon his own search for truth

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 14:13 | 4870314 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

early on, when exploring "belief systems" I liked "Hindu" as a good jumping off place, use-full in extracting the Western FatherGod meme I was raised to believe was "reality".  I liked the notion of "karma" as a balancing agent, and "lifetimes" lived towards increasing awareness. . .

when I came upon the "advaita/non-dual" concept - THAT was the deepest resonance I'd encountered.

that we are One awareness experiencing ItSelf, a wonderful mind-blow, that mirrored respectful inner-journeys mapped with plant entheogens. . .

Nature, the nature-all world, holds all the clues One needs, but the Mind defends its reality to the. . .Death, whereupon,

Peace centers withIn.

((and then we get back to the World, and eternal arguments, the Mind's Dance, heh))

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 14:35 | 4870440 CPL
CPL's picture

Doesn't really matter what the philosophy or politics behind it is.  The fact remains that biologically all men are chicks with dicks as per a timed sequence of events that make a man happen with a infinitesimal amount of testosterone. 

The illusion in a political situation is only the one you allow your self to be tricked.  Obviously the options of how a person is baffled with bullshit spread the entire field of a civilization.  All Ideas and Memes, good and bad, are all voluntary subscriptions of belief.  Some times an individual will subscribe to a personal belief that no one else shares, but is unsubstantiated.  Or a community agrees on a belief is made as practice, but is unsubstantiated.

Like you touch on, the history of sex would agree with this. 

Once a upon a time in ancient tribes, all over the world, people would see the idea of menstruation as a powerful cycle that would shadow the phases of the moon. And it probably creeped the shit out of a couple of people.  In some cultures, a residence would be set up outside of town for a woman to go through her cycle...lest the evil spirits came out of the woman. 

Today though, let's see:  we have fresh cut flowers, perfume samples wrapped in a magazine, chocolate and midol to deal with 'evil' spirits of PMS.  And for men, we have places for snacks and drinks, golf courses and hardware stores to go hide in.  Because if any guy I know built a shed in the back of their place and demanded that their Missus go live in there for a week.  Yeah...that's a short trip to an ass kicking and the palm sisters.

It's only the individual mind that makes the distinction or society that provides the definition that a cigar is just a cigar.  Sometimes it is just what it is.  Instead of over analyzing the the lit cohiba tobacco penis that people suck on, it's just easier if the cigar is just a cigar.  (I'm sorry in advance, but from this point forward you'll always see a cigar as a lit tobacco dildo.  Once seen, it can never be unseen.)

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 13:44 | 4870160 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture


Even in tao it is overlooked that two make one and find the balance with the two.  It isn't a question of defining 'centre'.

the Tao is a path, and the yin-yang a symbol to illustrate that path, showing the apparent duality, and how the "other" still holds the "opposite" within Self.

the "two sides" with their seed of the Other held are fully contained in the outer boundary of the symbol-concept.

not two, One.  all that Is, is Consciousness, nothing else - and within That, we Are, and we act.  hopefully with some awareness of the whole one-ness. . .

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 15:25 | 4870653 CPL
CPL's picture

It's only a "path" because that's how it is packaged.  It's just as much a marketing effort as branding toothpaste. 

Let's look at Siddhartha, he started a prince and ended up as...Siddhartha.  No more, no less.  Just is. 

In comparison to Johnny Appleseed, he was a real man btw.  He spent his entire life planting apple trees, honing orchard management strategies and living in the bush.  Johnny's accomplishments are no less important than Siddhartha over a life time. 

Both followed their path and discovered where their happy medium was while absorbing the lessons life offers everyone.  And simply sharing what they knew.  They did what they loved to do and liked helping people out.  Pretty easy recipe for success in life.

On the flip side of the coin.  The Mighty Khan.  A man from nothing to conquer a world with a army that has never been matched since.   Only reason Europe doesn't speak Mongol today is because the Khan died and everyone headed back to visit the body.  Then the War of the Kingdoms started up (problems with succession).  Or Alexander the Great.  A single man from out of nowhere that did more in the first 20 years of his life than all of his descendants combined in shaping the entire MENA, Indian, European regions.

It is all about perspective and the application of how a thread goes through the eye of the needle.  If balancing history against a religion.  Avoid getting too hung up on symbols to find that sweet spot.  Unless you like them, because there are lots of a cool graphics out there.  Some of the stuff coming out of photo-shopping competitions is amazing.  There's a certain meditation that comes with creating art.  Too much or too little, and an artist becomes their own enemy in defining what they've made.

Or maybe that's the duality you see, the critical self.  If there is no questioning, there is no improvement.  Truth has it's functional role there in finding that balance.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 20:32 | 4871766 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

well, the words I use are merely describing my perspective, as do we all.  in describing the Tao as a "path" I'm simply using language to illustrate a felt-thought, in this case "path" being a linear "one foot in front of the other towards an awareness". . . and the Tao itself also states and re-states that the description is not the described.

my understanding - and that merely states "my perspective" of course - of the Tao is nameless, formless, All That Is.  and "we" are That, merely in a form that has certain attributes expected of it, of "human".  and so we become that which is expected, unquestioningly.  or we don't, and are shunned by the overwhelming majority as "not really fully human" or just "weird" - and exist outside of the mainstream types, out on the fringes.

Or maybe that's the duality you see, the critical self.  If there is no questioning, there is no improvement.  Truth has it's functional role there in finding that balance.

the "duality" I've experienced is believing that Self is separate from All.  the separate self can be called "ego" or anything else that makes sense for the describer - words are merely that vehicle, descriptions of.  and so "non-dual" understanding arises when one realises there is no separation, that we are all Consciousness (or whatever name is used) experiencing itSelf, from myriad points-of-viewing.

it's a realisation that can happen, and life goes on, no real difference beyond a shift in awareness, which is Reality.

"Ceasing to conceptualize means ceasing to perceive objectively, which means perceiving non-objectively.  It is to see the universe without choice or judgement, and without getting into subject-object relationship.  What happens then?  Nothing, except that you are as you were before you were born: everything."       ~Ramesh Balsekar

heh, put simply, no separation, consciousness experiencing itSelf via myriad differing personality-perspectives, all of us acting to our Natures.  Consciousness, at play.  that's life.

thanks for the exchange CPL, best wishes.



Thu, 06/19/2014 - 09:39 | 4873290 CPL
CPL's picture

You too dude, we'll gab again I'm sure.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:18 | 4868975 Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

It's a game of Empire and Neo Colonialism.

The Tribe is a well payed underling in this game.

Religion ends where political power begins.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:22 | 4868976 shouldvekilledthem
shouldvekilledthem's picture

It's 2014 and people still fight over idiotic religions. The progress is just amazing considering the past few thousand years.


Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:25 | 4869012 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

Religion is one of the few things left that allows idiots to rally large numbers of supporters. Without religion, the idiots are left with 'hope and change' to rally the peoples.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:26 | 4869016 booboo
booboo's picture

I see where again where voting on even prophets has turned into a losing proposition. Democracy, the god that failed.
Other then that governments need man made religions, it gives them another avenue to divide and enslave.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:26 | 4869018 Confused
Confused's picture

You mean god didn't hand select the king? 


Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:38 | 4869091 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

 What about the idiotic so-called non-sectarian "religions"

of militarism, nationalism, and exceptionalism?


What about the "religion" of self-serving "realpolitik" that alleges to justify

the US government support for both Zionist apartheid Israel

and the feudalistic tyranny of wahhabist Saudi Arabia?


The myopic bashing of selected enemies is just a self-righteous display of typically self-serving hubris.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:19 | 4868983 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

I hear they have already taken over the UK's now always either sunny or shite.





Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:54 | 4869206 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Let me're here all week.  Tip your waiter.....try the veal.  I love ''re a great audience.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 12:05 | 4868985 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

What needs to be mentioned is how those sectarian differences have been deliberately exacerbated in accordance with Zionist and US neoCON/neoLIB plans.

The US government does not turn a blind eye to Saudi wahhabism merely because they have oil.

The Iraqi armed forces and government was deliberately (not mistakenly) disbanded by Bremer (a Kissinger protege') after the US invasion in expectation of creating chaos (and the additional US and Iraqi casualties that predictably would result from that fomented chaos).

Balkanizing the Mideast as planned by "Clean Break" &  PNAC

Atomizing the Mideast
Iraq: Will the Neocons Get Away With It Again?

US plotting
The Engineered Destruction and Political Fragmentation of Iraq. Towards the Creation of a US Sponsored Islamist Caliphate

Managing Chaos
Is Open-Ended Chaos the Desired US-Israeli Aim in the Middle East? » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:21 | 4868992 Be_Optimistic
Be_Optimistic's picture

As it turned out Saddham was the only one who knew how to run that part of the world...

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 23:26 | 4869808 whotookmyalias
whotookmyalias's picture


Wed, 06/18/2014 - 12:45 | 4869815 whotookmyalias
whotookmyalias's picture

The pro-Saddam posts on this article ruin an otherwise good discussion.


I spent a good deal of time explaining to people during the 1st Gulf War that the region was much more complex than most people understood. I've given up on that because most people just tune out and spout whatever they hear on CNN, MSNBC, Fox, NPR, etc.  Saddam bad, must go. 


It wasn't that removing Saddam was a bad idea, it was a bad idea because there was no real plan.  And when I say a plan, I mean a plan that makes sense and provides some stability and security to the people of what we call Iraq. The only plans we have had towards the middle east was to keep lining the right pockets at any cost to the world.


Saddam was a really really bad guy.  He wasn't the only one who knew how to run that part of the world, he was the only one with the nads to stand up to the Saudis and the US.  He was a great example of what is wrong with the world today when you let banks, the media, and cronyism pull all the strings.


PS - the video was piss poor and targeted towards the uninformed

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:22 | 4868994 Rainman
Rainman's picture

The only time these tribes take a break from killing each other is to kill foreign infidel invaders. It will always be this way. Period.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:23 | 4868999 BullyBearish
BullyBearish's picture

With all of the muslim deaths over the last 25 years, it's not hard to come to the conclusion that somebody with power wins when muslims die...who's next on their list?

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:24 | 4869004 HalinCA
HalinCA's picture

Facile.  Shallow.  Doesn't begin to explain what the divide is all about.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 11:31 | 4869213 CPL
CPL's picture

It's about legacy. 

And with legacy come subjugated populations putting bloodlines at each others throats.  Over a millennium being inbred beyond comprehension and reason.  Only to be matched by driving diplomacy by the tip of a sword.  Thankfully it's been the end of many to the relief of the rest of the general population that couldn't give a shit that work for a living.  Other than professors and interested students that study the historical to find the lessons in it.

Which is, the principal problem with bloodline inheritance is while everyone might get a 'king' after a huge war, it doesn't solve the issue of why a war started in the first place.

Which is people would have been pissed about something at that time.   You know, the usual list of completely resolvable griefs that typically involve little more than exerting some self control, having a bit of modesty and understanding that the people fighting should have never been the assholes at the table.  Ever.  All the decisions costs neither 'kingly' party anything and their people everything eventually. 

Today is no different, still the world would do better with teachers and less kings offering their awesome kingness.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:26 | 4869021 L Bean
L Bean's picture

BULL. Countries w both groups get along JUST FINE until CIA steps in w a false flag and bags of cash for whichever dumbass teenaged mouthbreathers want 'revenge'.

Point in case, the first golden mosque bombing in Samarra was generally considered to be just that, but somehow managed to foment violent sectarianism regardless. There will always be dumbasses who fall for this shit. But let's dispose with the Westplaining/Westplanations PLEASE.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 11:00 | 4869216 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

The general US-Zionist policy aims have long been recognized.

It's just that many refuse to believe their government could be that perfidious,

or that they could be such dupes.


Article from 2006 on US

plans and efforts to sow chaos and break up Iraq.


Wed, 06/18/2014 - 14:43 | 4870489 Duffy
Duffy's picture

there's no question that the break up of Iraq, Syria, as well as Egypt, Sudan, Lebanon and Iran have been a dream of the Zionists for decades.

Saudi is running ISIS so that later on the US and Israel can use their support for "terror" as justification for finally attacking Saudi - which is also part of the plan.


You have to admire their ability to get into power, control the media narrative, and deflect all criticism.... 

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 15:07 | 4870615 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

for me, it's not so much

to "admire" as to be dismayed

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:26 | 4869022 eaglerock
eaglerock's picture

Hey Iraq- this is a 'you' problem, not a 'me' problem. 

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:28 | 4869027 falak pema
falak pema's picture

100 secs; thats about the same time span that Clinton took with his cigar and his cigar douser. 

Some embers don't last 1400 years! 

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:29 | 4869030 MFL8240
MFL8240's picture

Which one is Obama??   Sunni or Shiite??

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:40 | 4869104 RaiZH
RaiZH's picture

Wahhabi... basically Sunni on steroids. 

But apparently they are really zionist jews who want to insidiously cause havock? 

Now I am confused, fuck this.  

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:42 | 4869113 L Bean
L Bean's picture

Well there are larger gods than the religious ones.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 14:04 | 4870246 Dublinmick
Dublinmick's picture

Wahhabi was installed by the crown long ago.


An Iraqi Mukhabarat (General Military Intelligence Directorate) Top Secret report, “The Emergence of Wahhabism and its Historical Roots,” dated September 2002 and released on March 13, 2008, by the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency in translated English form, points to the Dönmeh roots of the founder of the Saudi Wahhabi sect of Islam, Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab. Much of the information is gleaned from the memoirs of a “Mr. Humfer,” (as spelled in the DIA report, “Mr. Hempher” as spelled the historical record) a British spy who used the name “Mohammad,” claimed to be an Azeri who spoke Turkish, Persian, and Arabic and who made contact with Wahhab in the mid-18th century with a view of creating a sect of Islam that would eventually bring about an Arab revolt against the Ottomans and pave the way for the introduction of a Jewish state in Palestine. Humfer’s memoirs are recounted by the Ottoman writer and admiral Ayyub Sabri Pasha in his 1888 work, “The Beginning and Spreading of Wahhabism.”

In his book, The Dönmeh Jews, D. Mustafa Turan writes that Wahhab’s grandfather, Tjen Sulayman, was actually Tjen Shulman, a member of the Jewish community of Basra, Iraq. The Iraqi intelligence report also states that in his book, The Dönmeh Jews and the Origin of the Saudi Wahhabis, Rifat Salim Kabar reveals that Shulman eventually settled in the Hejaz, in the village of al-Ayniyah what is now Saudi Arabia, where his grandson founded the Wahhabi sect of Islam. The Iraqi intelligence report states that Shulman had been banished from Damascus, Cairo, and Mecca for his “quackery.” In the village, Shulman sired Abdul Wahhab. Abdel Wahhab’s son, Muhammad, founded modern Wahhabism.

The Iraqi report also makes some astounding claims about the Saud family. It cites Abdul Wahhab Ibrahim al-Shammari’s book, The Wahhabi Movement: The Truth and Roots, which states that King Abdul Aziz Ibn Saud, the first Kingdom of Saudi Arabia monarch, was descended from Mordechai bin Ibrahim bin Moishe, a Jewish merchant also from Basra. In Nejd, Moishe joined the Aniza tribe and changed his name to Markhan bin Ibrahim bin Musa. Eventually, Mordechai married off his son, Jack Dan, who became Al-Qarn, to a woman from the Anzah tribe of the Nejd. From this union, the future Saud family was born.



Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:47 | 4869150 gamera9
gamera9's picture

Neither side would want him although Michelle in s Burkha would be a refreshing developement

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:30 | 4869036 youngman
youngman's picture

I wonder when they attack and overrun our embassy they will use this video as the reason to behead the staff...Hillary said so

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:46 | 4869136 jaxville
jaxville's picture

That is the happiest thought of the day.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:48 | 4869162 Cattender
Cattender's picture

Hillary is a Big Dyke.. (soon to be the Next president of the USSA) "What Difference Does it Make" LOL..

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:43 | 4869120 All is chosen
All is chosen's picture

I'd assumed one lot used toilet paper, and the other lot shook hands with you. That will teach me :(

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:47 | 4869152 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

So, you guys who post outbursts of murderous rage toward Muslims-have you ever known any personally? Did they really deserve that kind of shit?

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:51 | 4869176 Hongcha
Hongcha's picture

Abiding and chronic insanity.  The religions that breed the kind of people who see their God-In-An-Orange-Fireball - Fundamentalist Xtianity, Fundy Islam, Fundy Zionism ... are going to bring us to a very bad place.  Because they are ready to blow up the world to hasten their Rapture.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 10:58 | 4869237 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

I thought it was a dinner date over 1000 years ago and the Sunni burned the gravy, so the Shiite has been pissed off since then

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 11:07 | 4869289 DaveA
DaveA's picture

This is all Muhammad's fault, because he had no surviving sons and never named a successor. He did say that after he died, Islam would fragment into one true sect and seventy-two false sects.

Then again, when you're the leader of gang of cutthroat bandits, you need to keep your subordinates off-balance so they'll compete for your favor instead of plotting against you. If you named a successor, he might kill you quick before you could change your mind.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 11:48 | 4869546 RhoneGSM
RhoneGSM's picture

If only had been around. He could have had a nice estate plan for under 100 dinars and millions wouldn't have died fighting over the estate.


Wed, 06/18/2014 - 11:28 | 4869404 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

I’ve always mused over the false motives imbedded in some religions and religious practices. Like the Mayan Priests, who claimed that people born retarded or with birth defects were special in the eyes of the gods and, therefore, uh, more worthy of ritual sacrifice.  

Not like they wanted to weed those people out of the gene pool or anything.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 11:36 | 4869462 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Shia's to the left (Syria), Shia's to the right (Iran) here I am stuck in the middle with you (Saddam, Sunni).

They are definitely off the Bush NWO script now if they are ALLOWING Sunni's back into Iraq as a major player. Qatar and Obama stuck the shiv in their back with the Saudi's quietly egging it all on and by doing so are sticking it to Pappy Bush and his NWO crew by implicitly giving consent.


Wed, 06/18/2014 - 11:49 | 4869551 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Understand why there wasn't a third Sunni parition yet.....

And back to the first gulf war in 1991 they found chemical weapons that weren't accounted for during the second audit right before the second gulf war in Iraq. Most people seem to ignore that little fact claiming they had no WMDs. They most certainly did since those weapons weren't accounted for. The question is where did they go and more importantly did they not want the weapons to be found on purpose. I'll give everyone a hint Baathists to the left of me (Syria).

And more importantly an article on this.


But this is a different story. It involves the prospect of inspectors finding very serious weapons and then saying:

“Wait! The weapons’ containers have American labels on them!”

That didn’t happen, but it could have. And then what a fiasco would have ensued, since the US government was about to wage war to “end Saddam’s threat.” Yet, the US had armed him.

In 1975, the US signed on to an international treaty banning the production, use, and stockpiling of biological weapons. Ditto for chemical weapons, in 1993. Another treaty.

Here’s a quote from the Washington Post (9/4/13, “When the US looked the other way on chemical weapons”): “…The administrations of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush authorized the sale to Iraq of numerous items…including poisonous chemicals and deadly biological viruses, such as anthrax and bubonic plague…”

Between 1985 and 1989, a US 501C3 firm, American Type Culture Collection, sent Iraq up to 70 shipments of various bio war agents, including 21 strains of anthrax.

Between 1984 and 1989, the CDC (Centers for Disease Control) sent Iraq at least 80 different bio war agents, including botulinum toxoid, dengue virus, and West Nile antigen and antibody.

This information on the American Type Culture Collection and the CDC comes from a report, “Iraq’s Biological Weapons Program,” prepared by the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies (CNS).

Then we have a comprehensive article by William Blum in the April 1998 Progressive called “Anthrax for Export.”Blum cites a 1994 Senate report confirming that, in this 1985-1989 time period, US shipments of anthrax and other bio war agents to Iraq were licensed by…drum roll, cymbal crash…the US Dept. of Commerce.


Blum quotes from the Senate report:

“These biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction. It was later learned that these microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to those the United Nations inspectors found and removed from the Iraqi biological warfare program.”

This 1994 Senate report also indicates that the US exported to Iraq the precursors for chemwar agents, actual plans for chemical and bio war production facilities, and chemical-warhead filling equipment. The exports continued until at least November 28, 1989.

Blum lists a few other bio war agents the US shipped to Iraq. Histoplasma Capsulatum, Brucella Melitensis, Clostridium Perfringens, Clostridium tetani–as well as E. coli, various genetic materials, human and bacterial DNA.

Blum also points out that a 1994 Pentagon report dismissed any connection between all these bio war agents and Gulf War Illness. But the researcher who headed up that study, Joshua Lederberg, was actually a director of the US firm that had provided the most bio war material to Iraq in the 1980s: the American Type Culture Collection.

Newsday revealed that the CEO of the American Type Culture Collection was a member of the US Dept. of Commerce’s Technical Advisory Committee. See, the Dept. of Commerce had to license and approve all those exports of bio war agents carried out by the American Type Culture Collection. Get the picture?

Now, as to other US companies which dealt bio war or chemwar agents to Iraq—all such sales having been approved by the US government—the names of these companies are contained in records of the 1992 Senate hearings, “United States Export Policy Toward Iraq Prior to Iraq’s Invasion of Kuwait,” Senate Report 102-996, Senate Committee on Banking Housing and Urban Affairs, 102d Congress, Second Session (October 27, 1992):

Mouse Master (Georgia), Sullaire Corp (Charlotte, North Carolina), Pure Aire (Charlotte, North Carolina), Posi Seal (Conn.), Union Carbide (Conn.), Evapco (Maryland), BDM Corp (Virginia), Spectra Physics (Calif.).

There are about a dozen more.

This also from the Blum article: “A larger number of American firms supplied Iraq with the specialized computers, lasers, testing and analyzing equipment, and other instruments and hardware vital to the manufacture of nuclear weapons, missiles, and delivery systems. Computers, in particular, play a key role in nuclear weapons development. Advanced computers make it feasible to avoid carrying out nuclear test explosions, thus preserving the program’s secrecy. The 1992 Senate hearings implicated [Hewlett Packard, Palo Alto, CA -- among others].”

Hewlett Packard said that the recipient of its shipments, Saad 16, was some sort of school in Iraq. But in 1990, the Wall St. Journal stated that Saad 16 was a “heavily fortified, state-of-the-art [Iraqi] complex for aircraft construction, missile design, and, almost certainly, nuclear-weapons research.”

There has been a considerable debate about whether Saddam hid some of his bio/chem weapons in Syria, to evade UN weapons inspectors. If he did, then is it possible the current situation in Syria has a few of its roots in the US? Is it possible some of Syria’s WMDs originally came from America?

If you review and think about all these WMD shipments from the US to Iraq, you understand there were many US officials and corporate employees who knew about them. Knew about them then, in the 1980s, and knew about them later, during 2 US wars in Iraq, when American soldiers were sent to Iraq, and could have been exposed to the biochem weapons.

And these officials and employees said nothing.


Wed, 06/18/2014 - 11:51 | 4869560 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Officials at the CDC and the Dept. of Commerce said nothing. People at the American Type Culture Collection said nothing. People at the Pentagon and the CIA and the NSA said nothing. Presidents said nothing. Employees of the corporations who supplied germs and chemicals said nothing.

It’s clear that the US government shipped those biochem weapons to Iraq to aid it in its war against Iran. And yes, Iraq did use chemical weapons against Iran—and also against the Iraqi Kurds. Perhaps you remember that, much later, the US government repeated, over and over, “Saddam used chemical weapons against the Kurds, his own people,” as a reason for attacking Iraq.

So is there any limit beyond which the US government wouldn’t go to foment war, to wage war?

That’s a rhetorical question.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 13:59 | 4869658 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Here is a map of a potential partition that has been circulating among military circles since at least 2006.


See why it wouldn't have worked for Pappy Bush and his NWO to have a Sunni Iraq partition yet if you planned to eventually force regime change in Iran and Syria to put in Shia puppets you control in terms of the petrodollar and controlling pipeline routes. It could never work same with an independent Kurdistan which is primarily Sunni also though ethnically distinct like Persians are from Arabs when the Kurds and Turks hate each other and Arabs and Persians tend to hate each other also. The only way to make it work is all Sunni or all Shia along the route(s).

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 11:51 | 4869558 Bemused Observer
Bemused Observer's picture

Islam as a religion is running about 600 years behind Christianity. Now, go back 600 years, and look at where Christianity was...
You land smack down in the middle of the witch-hunts in Europe.

And there you go. These folks are walking down the same damned road as Christianity, it's just that they started out a lot later than we did.
It's gonna take time...more than any of us have in our own lifetimes. If it is any consolation, our great great great grandchildren will probably get along fine with the Muslim world, and it will be some new, as-yet-unknown religion that will be giving them both grief in the future. And Muslim clerics will say shit like, "What the fuck is WRONG with these people!?"

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 12:24 | 4869714 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

You definitely "bemuse" me.  Clowns and idiots always bring comedy relief. 

If you are wondering what is funny, it is the fact that you can sum up thousands of years and millions or billions of people that you don't know diddly about in two sentences.  As much as I hate to quote Linclon, you just "....opened your mouth and removed all doubt".

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 12:32 | 4869759 Bemused Observer
Bemused Observer's picture

If you don't like my take on it, by all means, tell us what YOU think...
I see that you haven't offered any specifics about WHY you think me a "clown and idiot", just that you DO.

So what would be YOUR take on it?

(Notice that I have NOT stooped to insulting you for disagreeing with me, and that I have asked for YOUR opinion. This is because that is how I roll. I have learned that the stronger and more insulting the response, the fewer actual FACTS are behind it...)

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 14:48 | 4870515 Duffy
Duffy's picture

Islam in Malaysia and Indonesia, for example, has little to do with the violence and terrorism associated with Arab Islam since the break up of the Ottoman Empire and colonial domination of Arab territory.

Never let the worst 5% of any group define the group for you.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 16:36 | 4871018 Bemused Observer
Bemused Observer's picture

Well I think we were discussing the middle east...of course Muslims elsewhere have a different history. The experience of the arab middle easterners is uniquely theirs. And unfortunately it is a very blood-drenched history marked by incredible arrogance and stupidity on all sides. The oil just ensures that the situation will not change anytime soon.
So I'm not making a blanket statement about all Muslims...I'm only talking about the middle eastern ones, and their specific issues with the West.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 17:02 | 4871097 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

"Witch hunts"?  Really?  That's how you describe Christianity in early Europe?  We are both dealing with subjects way too complex for 3 second sound bites.

I apologize for my previous remarks.  You have been cordial and respectful.  I sometimes read a lot of post and then lash out at the first person to which I respond.  My bad!

For the record, I will say that there is little if any comparison between true Christianity and true Islam.  I could wax on and on about that, but I can assure you there is little comparison.  I will agree that a lot of Christians are just as wicked and evil as a lot of Muslims.  Because people call themselves something doesn't mean they truly represent the institution to which they are members.  Your assessment is a little "knee jerk" at best.

Anyway, cheers!

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 14:37 | 4870459 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

Mohammed acknowledged God was a Jewish God, and ascended to heaven (from a Jewish holy site) to talk to him.  God sent him back to earth as a reborn Jewish holy man.

Mohammed is Jewish.  All this fighting within Islam is simply the Devil fighting for control of Islam.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 12:06 | 4869630 alexcojones
alexcojones's picture

+ 2 Buck Bill. 

Small wars for small planets. Bigger wars tend to get out of hand

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 12:08 | 4869641 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

What never ceases to amaze me is how we take a handful of people of any race, religion, political party, etc. and paint the entire population in the light of what we "think" we know about that group of people.  They have a catchy phrase for this and it goes something like, "Divided and conquer".

Realy?  So all Americans are like Michelle Obama, Alec Baldwin, Harry Reid, John McCain, Lindsay Lohan,..................?  Sure there are similarities because people are people.  We like to eat, do fun things, love our families, indulge our selfishness, demand our way, throw fits, help others, take advantage of others,.............................................

We are being used by the manipulators who throw up a "poster child" of who they want us to see and what they want us to think about "people like that".  There is some truth to this based on nationality, customs, and traditions.  But to say all muslims want to kill all Jews is ridiculous.  To say all white are racist against blacks or all blacks think whites owe them, because the news loves to run racist stories or black violence against whites just to stir the pot, is to be fooled by simple manipulation and to be a fool.  To say all indians give a rat's ass about the Washington Redskins' name is to be foolish.

We have got to stop letting them group us by our color, religion, address, sex, age, finances, and divide us over issues that MOST of us could care less about.  We are all people and we are all guilty of just being people.  Lets start dealing with people based on their actions and hold them responsible for what they do and not who they in color, religion, age, sex, finance, etc.  Bet if we started doing this, they would have a hard time finding enough people to field an army much less fight "their" war for them.

I bet most Vietnamese have a different reason why they were fighting than we think was their reason.  I know today that you can't find a large group of Americans who know why we were over there and the reason we were told back then turned out to be bs.  Our own Civil War is a classic case in point.  It was over slavery, right?  Bullshit!  Everyone with more than two brain cells knows that now, but we have been told for generations that those whites in the South had to have their slaves.  When the fact is there were just as many slaves in the North.  Hell, Linclon even said he wasn't fighting about slavery and when he did "free" the slaves (after two years of fighting) it was only those below the Mason Dixon Line.  So why were we fighting?  Same reason we will this time.  Because we have been goaded into a fight by those that profit from us fighting or want to see us tear ourselvs apart.  Suni vs. Shia, my ass!

Thing is once they have initiated a fight, it never ends.  They just keep stiring it back up again and again because we believe everything we are told or want to believe.  The biggest evil by far in the world today is headquartered in D.C.  And they are the ones keeping everyone else fighting and making up the reasons for picking fights.  The last SOB's on the planet I would ever believe or listen to are in D.C.  If they are for it, I am against it.  If they are against it, I am for it.  Do you really believe they got the ring leader on the Benghazi attack?  Do you really believe what they are telling you about what is going on in the middle east?  It is a river of lies and it flows from D.C.

We need to be paying more attention to how they are destroying our country through debt and allowing these foreigners to invade our country by the millions each year.  At least when that fight breaks out, my sons will get to do something that hasn't been done in a long time by the military in this country.........actually fight for their country.

No way to stop this rant so I am just shutting it off now..........


Wed, 06/18/2014 - 13:05 | 4869755 RaiZH
RaiZH's picture

Divide and Conquer indeed. 

Isn't this what the British wanted when pretty much helping build the Saudi Kingdom and giving it over to the Wahhabi nutcase Ibn-Saud. 

I have heard that this so called Wahhabi sect are actually not Muslim, but are (or puppets of) zionist Jews on a mission to cause havock in the Muslim world and have them destroy eachother. 

Not long ago I would have laughed at such ideas, but I am really becoming convinced and intrigued  by this. What do you guys think? 

I am quite ignorant when it comes to the whole zionist conspiracy stuff, recommended resources would also greatly be appreciated.  

Oh and I used to think there was something inherintly wrong with Islam in particular. But I've come realise it is a load of nonsense equally like every other religion.

The most dangerous religion by far: Consumerism
A lot of people in the west are actually religious extremists in this sense... willing to commit Jihad on Black Friday etc.  

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 15:15 | 4870641 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

I am in agreement with you on this.  You might want to check out Synagogue of Satan on Youtube or buy the book.  I don't buy into all of it but there does seem to be a lot of smoke for there to be no fire.........if you get what I am saying.

"Love of money is the root of all evil."  There was a time I had my doubt about that statement but just like everything else in that "old-outdated-backwards-hated" Book, I have come to realize in time that It has a wisdom that transends the mind of man.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 23:29 | 4872329 Tompooz
Tompooz's picture

"recommended resources would also greatly be appreciated"


You could start with "the ethnic cleansing of Palestine" by Israeli historian Ilan Pappe.

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 12:27 | 4869732 Ban KKiller
Ban KKiller's picture

How many times do I have to say it? MY religion is the only true religion and we wlll gladly go to war to show our peaceful ways. In the name of God, my God, of course. Blessings on you.

Death to the non believers of MY true religion. Send your donations to World Bank Headquarters P. O. Box 1 Geneva Switzerland. 

There, now it makes sense, no? 

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 14:10 | 4869734 pakled
pakled's picture

If you go even further back you have Mohammed hearing voices, and assuming it is God speaking to him. Oh yeah? Did he show Mohammed his ID?


Anyone who has spent some time dwelling in the meta-physical realm knows there are an abundance of "voices" to be heard. This summary came out of my expereience there: "We live in a vast, complex, multi-dimensional cosmos, populated with a variety of beings, each with their own agenda."

Who knows if it was God speaking to Mohammed? Or God speaking to Moses, for that matter. What we do know is the conversation stirred the pot pretty well, didn't it. And even if it was a high minded conversation, the human ego worked over the words and in no time and distorted them to make the belief that you needed to kill all others who did not convert.

They/we fight over nothing really. We just fight. 

Wed, 06/18/2014 - 12:29 | 4869742 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

How can a country that has supposedly lost hundreds of thousands of young men in the past decade plus have so many more available for war?  How can there be so many so willing to go and die?

That math doesn't add up.

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