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Argentine Default Looms; Refuses To Negotiate; Admits Next Bond Payment "Impossible"
Argentina's attempt to work around SCOTUS decision in favor of the 'holdouts' was rejected (under anti-evasion orders) last night leaving Argentina no alternative but to threaten to default on its debt. The government called it "impossible" to pay bond service due on June 30, because payment to holders of restructured bonds could not be made unless the 'holdouts' were paid $1.33 billion at the same time (and Argentina's economy minister argues could be up to $15 bn) which the distressed country clearly does not have. For the first time in 12 years, Argentina has agreed to negotiate with the 'holdouts' (has renegged on that negotiation) who refused to participate in two restructurings that followed Argentina's 2002 default but it seems increasingly likely that an even of default looms for Argentina.
Via Reuters,
Buenos Aires is locked in a 12-year legal fight with creditors who refused to participate in two restructurings that followed Argentina's 2002 default on $100 billion in bonds.
In a televised address to the nation on Tuesday President Cristina Fernandez said Argentina was the victim of "extortion" by the holdouts, but that she was still open to negotiations and insisted she would continue to pay the more than 90 percent of creditors who accepted the restructuring terms.
...
"The lifting of the stay by the Second Circuit makes it impossible to make the next payment on restructured debt in New York, and shows a complete lack of willingness to negotiate under conditions different from those dictated by Judge Griesa," a statement from the Argentine economy ministry said late on Wednesday.
Talks are nevertheless expected between the two sides in New York next week.
The holdout creditors are led by NML Capital Ltd., a division of billionaire Paul Singer's Elliott Management Corp., and Aurelius Capital Management, chaired by Mark Brodsky, who warned that next week's negotiations could prove to be a "charade".
...
"Pari Passu (equal treatment) requirements impede Argentina from making the June 30 coupon payment to the holders of restructured bonds unless, at the same time, it pays all that is being demanded by the vulture funds, which could be up to $15 billion in total," the economy ministry said.
So Argentina is willing to negotiate, but no one is buying it...
"Argentina’s lawyer has informed the court that unidentified government officials will come to New York on an unidentified day next week to discuss settlement after years of rebuffing settlement overtures," said Aurelius' Chairman Mark Brodsky.
"I have learned not to rely on any assurance Argentina’s counsel provide to our courts. I expect a charade, but I hope to be proven wrong," he added.
And just minutes after we posted this... Argentina rebuffs...
- “There’s no Argentine mission or committee going to New York,” Cabinet Chief Jorge Capitanich tells reporters in Buenos Aires.
- *ARGENTINA CABINET CHIEF JORGE CAPITANICH SPEAKS IN BUENOS AIRES
- *ARGENTINA ISN'T GOING TO NEW YORK TO NEGOTIATE: CAPITANICH
- *HOLDOUTS CAN ONLY BE OFFERED SAME TERMS AS DEBT SWAP:CAPITANICH
The 2033 ARG bonds dropped notably after yesterday's bounce to trade at 73.375.
As Acting-Man's Pater Tenebrarum concludes,
One good thing may come from the victory of the 'hold-outs': the government will find it difficult to rack up more debt. Some people quoted by Reuters bemoan that the situation will delay Argentina's return to international capital markets, but Argentina's citizens should probably be relieved to hear it. On the other hand, it may well mean that even more money printing is in store, so we cannot be entirely certain whether the news is actually good or bad in that sense.
One thing is certain though: the economic policies pursued in the country over the past century have consistently failed. No end to this failure is in sight as of yet. The country doesn't need people specializing in Keynes and Marx, it needs a dose of Mises and Hayek.
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Just another 'all clear' signal to buy US stawks with both fists!
What's the biggest, safest bubble I can invest in, instead?
Gold Bitchez!
Or outright invasion.
This is what happens when you run out of other people's money.
Here is Ferfal's take. While he typically has no sympathy for the argentine government, he points out that since argentine depositors were forced to take a 70% haircut on their deposits in 2001, creditors who own debt from that era should also be forced to take a 70% haircut.
Fast forward to the ~8 minute mark as he takes a while to get to the point. It's worth watching.
http://youtu.be/K1HUb5zFbug
The people of Argentina don't care about any piece of paper if it doesn't have Messi's picture. The people are going into debt just to travel to Brazil to see this guy play.
p.s. I think I've discovered the source of Argentina's problems.
"Argentina has reportedly started a 'squid war' ..."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/9...
And the SHTF once again in Argentina.
Twice recently I have heard from Argentina that Bitcoin is getting very popular there.
OK, I do know that BTC is not a popular concept here at ZH, but it DOES have it uses...
Gold & silver as well as foreign currencies are scarce there, there is a BIG disparity between the official exchange rates and the "street" rates.
Next step: boot on the ground.
I just wish the US would hurry up and default on our debt already.
Have you heard in MERCOSUR?
The years have place in trading commodity currencies (Real (Brazil) by Argentine Peso (Argentina)) for example.
Do you think someone is not starving for dollars?
Argentines use hydropower plant insane Amounts of grains, Provide the best beef in the world to the world, has a temperate climate, are self-sufficient in oil.
Yes, they can send the U.S. to the son of a bitch.
Drones please?
Revolution color please?
Military coup has been done, the Argentines already know the menu.
It would be polite to lenders pass xylocaine in the ass, this cap will hurt Them more.
Should not talk about it, the sheep know que the capital of Brazil is Buenos Aires and the Seven Falls are on the Amazon River.
Tche Guevara = argentino.
hehe.
It wasn't a 70% haircut on USD deposits, only on Arg. Pesos. So Ferfal is wrong. The creditors are owed dollars.
And Agentinians are filth for electing fascists. They can all go to hell.
Those fucking morons in Argentina should not have offered the bonds in NY (of course, they wouldn't have gotten nearly as much :)
I'm sure they have learned their lesson.
Maybe Putin will let them issue the next round in Moscow?
...Or become the victim of the Shock Doctrine.
One good thing may come from the victory of the 'hold-outs': the government will find it difficult to rack up more debt.
But how is that a good thing??? How will Argentina afford to pay for healthcare and State schooling and its own War on Drugs and a powerful military that will restore pride in the Argentine Nation, etc, if it doesn't borrow squillions of USD for such investments?
Jorge Capitanich tells reporters in Buenos Aires
Super Securities: underwritten by a combination of Student Debt, Automobile Loans, and Residential Rentals...
Or, you could just find a decent, trustworthy connection in the drug market (I'd suggest Marijuana) and commit at least $,4,500 into a wholesale quantity and thereafter create your own distribution channel to liquidate the bulk purchase...oh, wait, wrong thread...*disappears without a sound*
Careful. The government, errr, CIA hates competition.
Actually, they love it.
Let you get to a certain point, then move in on your turf, your customers, and drone the shit out of your remaining operations.
Newsboy, get in now as its still a ground floor opportunity. My picks are: Printer Companies, Ink Suppliers, Speciality Paper Manufacturers and Physical Tungsten. If these wars heat up and pipelines continue to magically self destruct you might consider Carbon Credits since these events are Ozone Negative. You'll be rich in no time!
Chinese copper and aluminum...
I hope the panic in Kyle Bass's Argentenian bonds does not spread into Simon Black's Chilean inflation protected bonds. If these safe havens go down I have no idea what to consider safe anymore.
I hope they do....
Blame it on the weather again cause it's winter there now!
Wrong....Global Warming...wait no...Climate Change!
I don't know, but we got this guy named 'Not Sure', he's the smartest man alive and gonna fix evrything! Burrito toppins shortage, french fry shortage, ALL that shit!
Pssst.
Only oil matters.
Argentina's problems derive from it. Output collapsed. They ran out. They nationalized YPF because Repsol would not produce oil (that gave royalties to the gubmint) at a loss.
That ended the ability to service the bonds.
Ah, longing for the good 'ol days of Juan and Eva Peron.
"Don't cry for me, Argentina
The truth is I never left you
All through my wild days, my mad existence
I kept my promise, don't keep your distance"
Not a surprise. The Judges crossed a line that would not be crossed, and now we are going to have unexpected consequences all over the place.
Its getting Messi in Argentina.
lol
Blame it on Rio.
Won't be able to issue more debt any time soon? I recall Cyprus issuing paper just last week.... investors snapped it up like hotcakes.
Once the old debt is defaulted the balance sheet instantly improves and makes the issuance of new debt look very safe.
See GM.
Indeed.
Investors? I think you meant money printing Central Banks
Investors or central banks?
What's the difference? By which I mean, literally, what is the difference between a central bank and an investor. CBs are the investors, investors are the CBs.
Put a fork in it.
Austerity never works. Argentina needs to borrow moar!
http://youtu.be/kRW7pITY5Cg
Argentina defaults, again?
It continues to amaze me that people continue to fund bankrupt operations in their pusuit of the almightly interest.
Guess they have a lot more free cash than I do
Owe the bank/bookie $1,000, that's your problem, owe the bank/bookie $1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 and it's their fucking problem...
well then, by all means, pack up all your fucking people and ship them to the fucking Texas border where our treasonous, broke-ass, government is allowing a fucking invasion of illegal aliens to occur. C'mon in...the fucking door is wide open now. Get a driver's license get registered with a D next to your name, get free food, clothing, shelter, medical attention, and instantly become a "citizen" of the Banana Republic of the Federal Fucking Government of America.
Perhaps those wealthy texans should just buy argentia and be done with it. Oh wait, never mind...
Kyle Bass has a lot of that Argie debt. It did not go the way he expected.
I know at least two VC guys from Dallas that own property and Agentine oil companies. They are doing just fine.
Considering Argentina's repeated history of hyperinflation and default, what the heck was he hoping for? Praying for 10 yrs of upside in any South American country is well and truly delusional. Let's wait for Chile to crater as well.
Banana Murka!
Dude, only 1% of my fellow countrymen live abroad (even with the shit economy we have). So, don't confuse us with the Mexicans.. We are at the other tip of the continent...so it's not s step away from the borders.
The best thing any country with too much debt can do is to tell its banks to dump its bonds to foreign holders, then default, then adjust its budget to live within its means so that they do not need to borrow. Anything else turns you into Greece and cripples your economy for years (decades).
Like x 10,000. Exactly right sir.
Was that a dude? How do you say "Pat" auf deutsch?
Regime change here too?
Damn right! AQ coming to Argentina.
I think I know who you mean when you say AQ.
The new Greece..wether they like it or not....a Socialist without money is like......
Welcome to the USA future...once the game up with the dollar printing...and we realize we can't pay our debts! Socialisms always ends up running out of money
ISDA will decide no default has taken place
ISDA will allow the CDS to be triggered
Just have The Fed run the presses for them for a few minutes. AARP.
Not too sympathetic...this is a GOVERNMENT (not a "country"!) that failed to budget, relied on borrowing endlessly, couldn't say 'no' to anyone and now pays the price.
And any country silly and naive enough to hold assets under the jurisdiction of American courts deserves this too...
The nice thing about democracy is that its politicians can be bought or compromised by the Banksters.
Do you have clarity now?
Are Brodsky and Singer psychotic? Buy anything from Argentina? They may could get better rates from Zimbabwe. One can only wonder which US Government crowd is behind this. The Navy and Air Force are warming up the jets. Maybe the Pope can arrange a bailout for his buds. Yeah, that's the ticket.
Actually, I'm pretty confident that they'll manage to increase the debt... by a factor of 2 if need be...
Economy is doing great!!!
ONWARD!!!!
Why is gold not north of $10,000/oz? Ah, never mind.
fuck the hedge fund maggots, don't pay them a cent argentina. krapitalism, preying on the poor and helpless since, well, forever.
Go back to the USSR, pinko. True capitalism is freedom. Why do you hate freedom?
Not sure why you've been down voted - you recognise that you're now living in the USSA right?
"Yankee Dollar go home!"
needs to be their slogan, and that of other countries. While they're still "countries".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faFuaYA-daw
What am I missing here?
Why is Argentina even worrying about this? If they can't make the payments, they can't make the payments. Period. That happens every once in awhile when you lend money to people.
SO DON'T MAKE THE FUCKING PAYMENTS!!! Tell the hold-outs that now they get NOTHING. Then pay the debts you can, for the stuff you NEED, and worry about ARGENTINA, not some fucking bond-holders who can't do anything but stomp their feet and bitch...
"Oh, but then they won't be able to access the world credit markets..." So...WHAT!! If their debts are so bad they have to default, the world credit markets are the LAST place they should worry about having access to...Jesus! These people need more loans like I need an extra foot on each ankle.
If they want to 'spin' it to make themselves feel better, they can keep in mind that by defaulting, and staying OUT of the credit markets, they are in fact saving the lenders from themselves.
Argentina has vast natural resources, things that are needed and wanted by others. Credit markets can be bypassed, and deals made outside the world market system. In fact, Argentina probably has enough of some resources to affect global prices, especially if they selectively introduce stuff at the right time.
Those bondholders have nothing but promises and hot air...tell them to eat shit and die already. These so-called "investors" need to be put in their place. They need to be bitch-slapped by reality and reminded that when you "invest", there is a chance you will lose everything, so invest wisely. And when you do lose, have the grace to walk away with dignity, instead of making like 'David Howard' and begging the casino to give you your money back. Go get yourselves one of those "100 thousand dollar a year crossing guard" jobs and WORK for your living for a change!
When will someone have the stones to flip the bird at the system? To call the bluffs of the ones who have world markets in a stranglehold? To tell the financial world that it exists to serve US, not the other way around?
+1 don't pay. unfortunately the maggots only have to corrupt a handful of people in argentina and then the poor third world children starve (even in resource rich countries) so the maggots can get another bonus. great system.
"Argentina has vast natural resources, things that are needed and wanted by others. Credit markets can be bypassed"
Attempt bypassing the banksters at your own peril. Lincoln, Jackson, JFK etc.
Keep what Bemused Observer said in mind the next time you feel the urge to buy a Treasury Bill or Sovereign Bond of a country.
When you loan money to the mob there's good chance they will pay you with a bullet or with nothing.
Whose fault is it when you loan money to known deadbeats?
What am I missing here?
A few things, actually. First, let me preface this by saying I own a couple of properties in Argentina and have lived their periodically over the years. I know the country and its people quite well. I've traveled the extraordinary land from Tierra del Fuego to Jujuy several times over. Needless to say, my experiences there and the fact that I have navigated the Byzantine bureaucracies that predominate on multiple occasions gives me some degree of understanding of the Argentine dilemma.
Argentina does possess resources, although not nearly so "vast" as you imagine. Everyone makes that same assumption, and it is precisely that: an assumption. Much of northern Argentina is comprised of "altiplano" - high desert. It's fairly arid and not terribly conducive to agriculture although the countryside itself is stunninng. What minerals Argentina does possess are locked away under hundreds of millions of tons of rock which is infinitely less accessible to a country whose infrastructure, internal finances and general "know how" are all precipitously in decline.
Much of their internal industry is so dilapidated that foreign assistance/extraction/partnerships are required. Ex: Brazil's VALE attempted to open a potash mine in Argentina. It was shuttered a short time later owing largely to Argentine intransigence. If the Brazilians (communist peas in a pod are Dilma and Cristina) can't work together, what the fuck days that say about the rest of the world's ability to find common ground with the ULTRA ARROGANT and unwielding Argentine people? And that is just one example of the multiple conflicts Argentina weekly enters into with neighbors Brazil, Chile, Uruguay, Bolivia, etc. Uruguayans, their Latino cousins, have nearly reached the breaking point with the entire country. Mujica openly criticizes Cristina and Argentina on an almost daily basis. Dilma, a former commie guerrilla dyke warrior of the same cut as Cristina frequently has to give Kirchner the smackdown on issues of "fair trade", tariffs and patent infringement (rich coming from Brazil - a country that frequently breaks patents whenever it suits them).
You would be correct to assume that Argentina is very well endowed agriculturally speaking. Vast pampas and fertile soils in central and souther Argentina can produce almost anything. Unfortunately, they are often competing with heavily subsidized mega farms of the US. Brazil frequently complains about this "unfair" advantage but to no avail. US and Brazilian producers alone depress the price of corn, soy and other grains. But apart from agriculture, it's not like Argentina plays host to a thriving bio-tech sector or is a domestic manufacturing powerhouse. Go into a Jumbo/Easy (their homegrown Wal-Mart) and you'll see appliances and the like that are 3rd tier Chinese garbage, and I mean GARBAGE. Almost any country could produce products domestically that exceed the level of Guangzhou garbage that passes for washing machines or dishwashers, and yet Argentina can't manage to do that much.
"When will someone have the stones to flip the bird at the system?"
They did. Back in 2001. Nestor Kirchner told the big boys to go fuck themselves. And Argentina grew like gang busters....for a time. I was there during the Nestor years. He was a good for nothing corrupt prick, but he did move the country forward....a little. There was a brief renaissance in Argentine commerce and manufacturing. You know how he did it? Printed. Sound familiar? He also meddled in agriculture and fucking gutted a relatively autonomous and highly productive sector of the otherwise dead economy. He picked fights with farmers and artificially increased wages to absurd levels, stoking inflation along the way. He frequently intervened in the energy markets, discouraging public investment which to this day leads to rolling brown outs/outright power outages for days on end.
I'm really sorry to burst your bubble, but as long as the Argentine FSA (yes, they have them too) keeps looking for handouts, they'll keep getting Cristina Kirchners. Populist turds are the rule not the exception in Latin America. Argentina shows promise but mostly has its own people to blame, just like the US, Brazil, Belgium or any other so called democracy that sacrifices long term growth and stability for short term pandering.
I am an argentine and i agree 100% with your words. I come from a family of farmers and we have owned our land since 1880.. Not easy to survive as farmers in this country..but we do manage. Cheerio.
Imagine the state of Argentine agriculture today had the Kirchner's not meddled in the free market, forcing farmers to "sell" products domestically at a steep discount in order to prop up their communist delusions of redistribution of wealth. I'm glad you and your family are making it despite such ruinous policies. If you don't mind, where is your farm located? I own properties in BsAs but would love to trade them for a bit of land like that which you're probably farming.
Yeah, they have been a pain in the ass since they arrived to power. We already know the kind and this can be tracked back to Peron and his prostitute wife Evita. But we survived because we are "protected" by the global mafia that lease our land (Monsatan). We own 3 farms, one cattle ranch that we work ourselves located 75 kms southwest from Bs As.. and the other two agricultural farms are in our "illinois" region in the Province of Buenos Aires. Sorry, they are not for sale.. even less at this moment of uncertainty. Nobody sells farmland these days over here. You will have to wait until we have a new 2010/2011. But I suspect you will need more than two flats to buy land like ours probably.. However, there are areas less expensive (Chaco, Santiago del Estero?) that are surely a good deal for your exchange offer. Where are your flats located in BsAs? Are you renting those pads?
Monsatan, good one.
Sometimes I forget about this ugly member of the oligarchy. I need to watch "The World According to Monsanto" again. That was a good education for a city boy like me.
Indeed an ugly member of the global oligarchy. But when this ugly entity rents your place, they honour their contracts.. And one should behave well in return. :)
Presumably the Kirchners will be gone for good late next year. Do you think there is any prospect of better governance in Argentina post 2015 or is that really just pie in the sky optimism on my part?
That's really just pie in the sky optimism from your part. Even if the Kirchneristas are gone. There will be a new gov which will also respond to the council of the americas (council of foreign relations-CFR-UN-Bilderberg group, etc) as the kirchners do behind scenes. Your thought it's like hoping for a real american government will come th the white house.. You are as hijacked as we are... Difference.. there are plenty more of real americans opposing to this sionist shit.
I have a place in Palermo Hollywood and Las Canitas. Both nice places and both rented out regularly. Probably worth a combined $300K give or take. Either way, maybe not enough to buy a large estate but I'm sure I could pick up a few acres with that kind of money. I would likely try to barter them out in any event as outright selling might be difficult right now given the dollar situation.
I think if I looked for another property, I would be looking in the vicinity of Tucuman, Salta or Jujuy. I love the climate and scenery up north. Are you in any way affiliated with CRESY/CRESUD or know anyone who is? Curious to know how their consortium has been doing with Brazilian and Argentine farmland.
Good locations!! (although hope you are not in Baez street in Cañitas because it's impossible to sleep with the noise). Yes that $300k won't do much in agricultural top areas but might do well in provinces like the ones you mentioned. Actually I know Salta quite well and have some relatives there that I often visit. Have you heard of Douglas Casey's project "La estancia de cafayate"(he is in partnership with the former crook peronist governor Romero) but the place is great and many ex pats go and buy a plot of land there and build a house. You can also grow your own wineyard. I think you can do something with those $300k there?. I am not affilitated with Cresud but of course I know the firm, isn't it Eduardo Elzstain's?. Most of agricultural pools and firms like Cresud, Adecoagro, Grobo,etc have expanded business in Brazil and are doing better there compared to our controlled agricultural business. But of course the soil here is much better quality than Brazil...so that will keep these firms with a foot on the boat here.
Refreshing to see an Argentinian who justly loathes the Perons. Why are they so revered? I've never been able to figure this out although I suppose it's hardly different than how many Americans view Lincoln or FDR. Stockholm Syndrome knows no boundaries.
Any chance of conservatives or free marketers coming to power in Argentina? Sadly it seems there is no political right there at all.
Well I have to agree with you about the complicity of the voters. I guess I was really expressing an ideal I know is hopeless...I see the same damned thing here.
But the fact that you said the economy initially took off until it was dragged back down by more of the same old, same old just shows how it is governments and big business interests that are holding everything back.
THEY'RE the ones making society's cart too heavy to pull.
Absolutely. Cronyism and rampant corruption ALWAYS play the largest part. Argentina, left to its own devices, would be doing MUCH better today than with statist policies.
With judgement Elliot secured, they can (and undoubtedly will) seize every Argentine asset in sight around the globe. Apparently, the bonds at issue were denominated in U.S. dollars, so Argentina could not simply print the money. Very likely, Argentina will bend over for Eliot - a global default on its debt would likely be even costlier to them - and Eliot knows it. Paul Singer should watch his six.
That's a typical legal reaction, but in reality it fails every time.
Argentina has had years, no correct that, DECADES to prepare. I'm sure the assets, just like Greece and Cyrpus are shielded/under other owners/hidden. There won't be any magical financial windfall. It's pretty easy to hide things when you want. Doesn't matter what the "laws" say, there are always ways.
If I were Argentina, I'd be on the phone to BRICS nations seeing if we can shore up any needed imports/exports and **** the global credit markets. Seriously, the bondholders are bluffing because they really don't have anything against you except your consideration that they should get paid. Indeed, expecting no losses is nuts, but I suppose some of the elites have gotten downright spoiled with piles of money being delivered fast n easy...
I don't understand why they have to shore up any place in the global marketplace right now. Why can't they simply put up an "Out To Lunch" sign on the country, and work on their own economy before jumping back into the global markets?
Get the agriculture going, the basic utilities and infrastructures...forget about trading with anyone outside the borders right now. Argentina does NOT need to import ANYTHING to serve the basic needs of its people. It can feed them, house them, and put them to work without unloading a single cargo container from China.
Yes, that means no more importing shit like IPhones, and any other crap that can't or won't be made in Argentina, but THAT'S the kind of 'austerity' programs we ALL need. Never mind this faux-austerity where pensions get stolen and wages forced down while your markets get flooded with cheap imports that send your money out of the country...try the REAL kind where you don't get to import shit you can't buy or make yourselves. Where businesses are forced to remain home and help fix the situation, instead of hiding profits overseas and using foreign courts to force their judgements on the populace. Argentina can then assess their situation away from all the noise, and decide what their involvement in the global marketplace should be. They may decide that all the foreign investments weren't really worth the trouble after all, and decide to restrict their involvement to buying only a few items they need. They may decide not to allow any foreign investment (and control) over stuff like their water and power. They may decide that doing shit like giving tax breaks and kissing the asses of foreign businesses for the 'privilege' of being allowed to pay for their presence isn't quite the 'great deal' it was made out to be...(I still can't believe Brazil's World Cup, and all the pissed-off little folks in the streets outside who actually had to pay for the whole fucking thing that they can't even attend...All so a bunch of elites can reap huge profits that will be immediately funneled out of the country..)
I'm waiting for the first one who will stand up and say "Enough!". Who will refuse to be caught up in the meandering, overly-complex argumentation that just buys more time for the status quo, and just brings it all down to the basics. I don't want some fool who will attempt to untangle the mess...I want someone who will approach it like Alexander at the city of Gordium. When presented with this ridiculously complex ball of bullshit, he refused to even play along, and just sliced the fucker right in half. There. Problem solved...Next!
Where the hell IS that guy? (or girl, I don't care...)
Fuck the vultures.
Vultures serve a very necessary process in the ecosystem, they eat carrion. And I would hazard a guess that Argentina is carrion at this point.
I think you were the guy yesterday who told me I didn't get it. Well same back to you. A creditor can only go so far, before the debtor tells them to fuck off. And then the creditor finds all their legal tools mean squat. You cannot force people to become your debt slave if they refuse.
A bounce back, how the f* is that possible ?
It should be a straight line down by now.
These bonds were issued in Argentina right? So why does a US court then interfere. It is not their jurisdiction.
And default already and join team Russia-China.
Well, it is the US isn't it.
Oh yeah, I forgot...Is there a no fly zone over Buenos Aires yet?
US court inferes because these bondholders are part of the US government. They bribe the politicians and can therefore bring political pressure on Argentina for non payment. (Of course this should not be happening and it should be tough luck you lost your money) If .us.gov was not involved the courts would not be either...but .gov is backing up the courts.
I read somewhere that the bonds were issued under US law. Well, that was pretty stupid then but I guess they only way they could get someone to buy them. I also read that if Argentina does not comply that they then cannot use the US banking and payment system anymore. Well, I guess team Russia-China (and other Bricks??) are working on that.
This is a short video from Jesse's Café Américain of Prof. Dr. William Black that may answer your question.
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/
It's in US jurisdiction because back in 2001 our idiot president at the time arranged this jurisdiction to be the one doing the settlings in the case of an argentine default (which took place that same year)... Basically at the time we had our peso pegged to the dollar and we had all our economy tied to the US one. Then after default, it was bye bye to capital markets, but we had 12 years of great prices in commodities and instead of cancelling our debt, this idiot kirchnerists spent all that money in hand outs and stupid government programms, so now the sionists have us grabbed by the bollocks again. Anyway, they all work together (US justice, Hedge funds and my Gov) under the same puppeteers. To be honest i don't want to side with freaking russians or chinese..who are control by collectivist elites as well as the west. We should pay back our debts and tell the orwellian Oceania (Nato), Eastasia (Russia-China) a big Fuck off, and stand as a proud nation again.
I'm going to open a bar, the Chez Guevarra.
Refuses To Negotiate; Admits Next Bond Payment "Impossible"COMING SOON TO A COUNTRY NEAR YOU!
I wonder if U.S. courts will take the same approach to equal (or pari passu) treatment of all bondholders when (not if) the U.S. seeks to favor certain holders of U.S. bonds or disfavor others.
Perhaps that is why S.Ct. declined to take up the petition for certiorari and let the lower court decision stand. They don't want to be locked into a decision by an Argentina precedent.
Both to the Argentinian government and to MOST PEOPLE I say:
WHEN YOU TRY TO GET SOMETHING FOR NOTHING YOU WILL GET MORE AND MORE NOTHING MASQUERADING AS SOMETHING.
Now think of all the 'somethings' your wretched lives cannot continue without.
All US citizens should park their cars on the motorwyas, freeways, exits and entrances, remove the keys and walk away. Washington DC must be brought to account. Block the roads and bring commerce to a standstill until the Fed is audited and war machine is brought to its knees.
Praying to GOD has a higher chance of sucess. Even for athiests.
the Supremes elect a president (that didn't turn out so well) now they make financial decisions concerning sovereign states, the Federal Reserve and the ECB make foreign policy in Ukraine. whats do we have Obama for?
Argentina, Bolvia, VEnezuela are in default : Period
Mexico and Brazil are next to Drop like stones....
Sell Emerging markets
"One thing is certain though: the economic policies pursued in the country over the past century have consistently failed."
Ummmmm.........is this statement about Argentina or the USA?
/sarc
so... bullish, right?
Thank you IMF.
Margaret Thatcher was right. Socialists do run out of other people's money eventually.
Seems that Argentina has just about run dry.
Anyone have any insight on why Argentina has been such a basket case for so long?
Are the banksters that more potent or the pols and crats that much more charismatic?
Does it fulfill a need of some kind of the European Rothschild banksters?
It just boggles the mind that the Argentineans would put up with this crap year after year, decade after decade.
In a word: socialism.
Loan them more to make a few payments and bullhorn the paper to investors
I am Argentine and really blame this situation more on the motherfreaker useful idiot botox bitch of the president we have than on the hedge funds themselves. It's all about who is behind the strings in this puppet show..and we all well know who controls today the US justice, the hedge funds and also my sad-ass government. The ones here under attack are the common men on the streets who will have a shit time after June 30th. We have survived for 6 generations as farmers and will keep surviving like this and when motherfreaker David Rockefeller and Lord Rothschild, and their globalists friends come for our belongings (most probably in the form of local police officers or commie kirchnerist zombie militia) I will be waiting with my remington to blow their heads off...until I get bitten by one of them?.
On a different front, this will become a good oportunity for foreigners (or locals with fiat dollars abroad) to buy real estate after the default, s prices will fall massively after it... and then they will make a good profit after 5/7 years. That's what happened after our default in 2001. Not really keen about this as I don't like foreigners in my country...One thing I know, me and my family will stick with our real estate until prices sky rocket again like in 2007... got it Rockefucker? Or Rothsatanchild.
Cheerio.
Argentina could throw its own tribes' bankers under the bus and change the liability laws so the collecters can only collect from their own tribe members, and give them broad powers to do so, the tribe would hate that while loving it, would the tribe eat their own if given incentive of say a nickel?
Argentina could throw its own tribes' bankers under the bus and change the liability laws so the collecters can only collect from their own tribe members, and give them broad powers to do so, the tribe would hate that while loving it, would the tribe eat their own if given incentive of say a nickel?
Break The Deal; Spin The Wheel. Break The Deal; Spin The Wheel.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHjHXpFiegA
Guys...
http://mecometer.com/topic/external-debt-percentage-of-gdp/
US "official" external debt:
U$S 17.547.000.000.000 and counting Interest per year:$508,213,512,169
Population:
318,009,960
GDP:
$17,149,000,000,000
Interest per second:$16,115
Citizen's Share:
$55,177
Debt as % of GDP:
102.32%
Argentina's debt of GDP: 39%
Citizen's share: U$S 4,656
One more thing, just for the record:
Argentina has not a socialist gvt.
The economic model based on everybody´s stealing from each other, inevitably fails. This killed Soviet and Argentina, Greece and Ukraine are similar, hopelessly corrupted failed states.