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Did Saddam Have WMDs After All: ISIS Overruns Iraq Chemical Weapons 'Mega-Facility'

Tyler Durden's picture


With all eyes firmly focused on what really matters (the oil refineries), The Telegraph reports that ISIS has over-run a Saddam Hussein-era chemical weapons (CW) complex. The al-Muhanna 'mega-facility', about 60 miles south of Baghdad, gives the jihadists access to disused stores of hundreds of tonnes of potentially deadly poisons including mustard gas and sarin. The US state department is 'concerned' but "do not believe that the complex contains CW materials of military value." However, as a former commander of Britain's chemical weapons regiment warned, "we have seen that ISIS has used chemicals in explosions in Iraq before and has carried out experiments in Syria." This is likely great for ISIS 2014 Annual Report; but, of course, the other awkward question is: does this mean Saddam did have WMDs (and ISIS found them) after all?

As The Telegraph reports, the jihadist group bringing terror to Iraq overran a Saddam Hussein chemical weapons complex on Thursday...

Isis invaded the al-Muthanna mega-facility 60 miles north of Baghdad in a rapid takeover that the US government said was a matter of concern.


The facility was notorious in the 1980s and 1990s as the locus of Saddam’s industrial scale efforts to develop a chemical weapons development programme.


During its peak in the late 1980s to early 1990s, Iraq produced bunkers full of chemical munitions.


A CIA report on the facility said that 150 tons of mustard were produced each year at the peak from 1983 and pilot-scale production of Sarin began in 1984.


Its most recent description of al-Muthanna in 2007 paints a disturbing picture of chemicals strewn throughout the area.


“Two wars, sanctions and UN oversight reduced Iraqi’s premier production facility to a stockpile of old damaged and contaminated chemical munitions (sealed in bunkers), a wasteland full of destroyed chemical munitions, razed structures, and unusable war-ravaged facilities,” it said.


“Some of the bunkers contained large quantities of unfilled chemical munitions, conventional munitions, one-ton shipping containers, old disabled production equipment and other hazardous industrial chemicals.”


Britain has previously acknowledgeded that the nature of the material contained in the two bunkers would make the destruction process difficult and technically challenging.

Should we be worried?

US officials revealed that the group had occupied the sprawling site which has two bunkers encased in a concrete seal. Much of the sarin is believed to be redundant.
“We remain concerned about the seizure of any military site by the [Isis],” Jen Psaki, the State Department spokeswoman, said. “We do not believe that the complex contains CW materials of military value and it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to safely move the materials.


Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, a former commander of Britain’s chemical weapons regiment, said that al-Muthanna has large stores of weaponized and bulk mustard gas and sarin, most of which has been put beyond ready use in concrete stores.

It is doubtful that Isis have the expertise to use a fully functioning chemical munition but there are materials on site that could be used in an improvised explosive device,” he told the Telegraph.


“We have seen that Isis has used chemicals in explosions in Iraq before and has carried out experiments in Syria.”

One US official told the Wall Street Journal yesterday that Isis fighters could be contaminated by the chemicals at the site.

“The only people who would likely be harmed by these chemical materials would be the people who tried to use or move them,” the military officer said.

This asset growth is likely great for ISIS 2014 Annual Report...


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Thu, 06/19/2014 - 18:01 | 4875437 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  That must-A-been one hell of a "spider hole"? <sarc/>

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 18:02 | 4875441 90's Child
90&#039;s Child's picture

Considering we gave them chemical weapons to go war with Iran... Yes

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 18:05 | 4875454 cifo
cifo's picture

It seems that ISIS is friends with Bush & Blair and trying to clear their names.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 18:12 | 4875482 graneros
graneros's picture

After all the bullshit we've been through about Iraqi WMD's and now ISIS finds them? This is just too much. I feel sorry for those who will be on the recieving end of these.  That being said my first response was an explosion of laughter. The irony of this is too much for me too bear.  Surely others broke out in an involutary fit of laughter?

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 18:23 | 4875524 Sofa King
Sofa King's picture

Kind of makes you wonder "What the fuck were we doing there for 10 Years?"

I say the US defaults on its debt and screws the rest of the world into the ground.


Thu, 06/19/2014 - 18:25 | 4875531 john39
john39's picture

so what happens next here... ISIS uses chem weapons in Syria and the US has to bomb syria to save it?

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 18:31 | 4875557 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

It's "Humanitarian" bombing.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 18:49 | 4875620 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture


Poison gas is not a WMD nor is it a strategic weapon.

It is a tactical weapon and a very poor tactical weapon at that.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 18:53 | 4875634 max2205
max2205's picture

McGiever please pick up line 1

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 19:46 | 4875667 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture


Rumors of phosgene gas stockpiled for later use:


But chemical weapons are technically not WMD (although it is a scary name and you shouldn't let a scary name go to waste):


Thu, 06/19/2014 - 20:09 | 4875984 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

ISIS didn't need to file a "route plan" weeks in advance, as, I'm sure the United Nations did.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 21:20 | 4876246 Gaius Frakkin' ...
Gaius Frakkin&#039; Baltar's picture

As some eluded to above, it seems like this may be a great cover for the CIA who gave ISIS the chemical weapons in Syria. Now they can blame it on Saddam when ISIS uses them in Baghdad AND have their excuse for Iraq 3.0! Fan-fucking-tastic!!!

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 21:38 | 4876320 fuu
fuu's picture

So let me get this straight. No one in the US or Britain ever took credit for finding the WMD. But now we have  a British Commander stating that "large stores of weaponized and bulk mustard gas and sarin, most of which has been put beyond ready use in concrete stores." 60 miles south of Baghdad? The CIA knew the address in the 80's and the output?




jesus fucking wept

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 21:47 | 4876367 Gaius Frakkin' ...
Gaius Frakkin&#039; Baltar's picture

These were already accounted for by UN inspectors... ...but yes, you would think someone in the US or British government would have been smart enough to extract these and use them as "evidence" for the supposed hidden weapons. Instead they were more concerned with getting the oil wells and refineries up and running.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 22:04 | 4876460 pods
pods's picture

Sounds like this is recycling the news of old weapons.

Concrete seal?  Probably a pit filled with munitions/weapons that had concrete poured over it.

No way this shit was just laying around.  Just propaganda.

If it is, our government is even MORE criminal that even I could imagine, which is pretty fucking criminal.

Stuff was probably in such bad shape they couldn't even move it to burn it.  Probably unmarked drums of crap and reaction vessels, which might be bad stuff, it is certainly not an effective weapon.

Hazmat jockey's nightmare come true.


Thu, 06/19/2014 - 22:48 | 4876617 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

this story will be repeated in its least accurate iterations until it will be "it took an al qaeda splinter group to find the wmd chemical weapons that bush invaded to stop and overlooked even though occupying iraq for a decade", even though this stuff was known to and "disabled"by the u.n. inspectors.

wonder how effective the "disabling" was?  got to believe the shiites hope it was more effective than the dollar sanctions obama put on putin, etc.


Thu, 06/19/2014 - 23:09 | 4876692 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

<<  Kind of makes you wonder "What the fuck were we doing there for 10 Years?" >>


Building chemical plants maybe? We do no tknow when these 'mega plants' were built or proof they even exist yet.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 23:22 | 4876746 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

After listening to Joel Skousen tonight, here...

I'm more convinced than ever that WWIII will be the means through which the NWO is ushered in with its militarized global government.

I think he laid out a pretty convincing argument against an economic collapse bringing in the global government.

Moar woar is in the offing for all of us who are already weary from the last decade.



Fri, 06/20/2014 - 00:18 | 4876913 falconflight
falconflight's picture

Yeah, his senario is pretty effing scary.  He wrote a decent book on how to prepare.  Very interesting analysis about where to go and where to get the hell out of.

Sat, 06/21/2014 - 19:06 | 4881368 trader1
trader1's picture

whether or not he's qualified, skousen will say what he needs to say in order to get paid...

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 06:28 | 4877234 Nexus789
Nexus789's picture

After WW3 there will be no one around for the NWO to govern.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 23:47 | 4876837 Slewburger
Slewburger's picture

Are you guys fucking kidding me?

Fool me once shame on you.

Fool me twice.. Shame on.... cant fool me twice.

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 08:25 | 4877365 SoilMyselfRotten
SoilMyselfRotten's picture

You put the W in SleWburger!

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 02:51 | 4877111 Theosebes Goodfellow
Theosebes Goodfellow's picture

~“We do not believe that the complex contains CW materials of military value and it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to safely move the materials."~

Safely remove the materials? Do you really think that "safely removing materials" is an issue for people who are more than willing to blow themselvs up for their cause? And once they do get their hands on some sarin or mustard gas they'd have any compunction against using it against Shiites? All of this does though leave me with one question.

Do vicious chemical burns affect your performance with the 72 virgins once you get to them?

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 23:20 | 4876732 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

no, jesus fucking christ

like 911, I'm kinda past being shocked by all this amazing bullshit.

don't you ever feel like it's some sort of taste test to see how much we'll swallow 

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 01:27 | 4876981 Lore
Lore's picture

This one smells like another lie, resembling the repeated misattribution of chemical weapons usage to Assad in Syria. Whoever has the stuff should destroy it pronto to pre-empt ANOTHER FALSE FLAG IN THE MAKING, something along the lines of:  "They" "found" this stuff (that the USA supplied), "They" recovered it, "They" are preparing to use it, thus obliging the Forces of Freedom to Return to the Scene of the Crime in order to Dispense More Liberty.  Rah Rah, USA USA, media distraction from scandals at home, et cetera.  Am I on the right track?

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 03:56 | 4877159 LostandFound
LostandFound's picture

Controlling the flow of spice? Getting rid of Saddam who was preparing to accept Euros for oil? Installing a new puppet to do the Washingtons bidding? Creating muslim terrorists due to a failed foreigh policy? Creating growth in the economy by rebuilding the infrastructure using players like Haliburton and Bechtel?


Fri, 06/20/2014 - 03:56 | 4877160 LostandFound
LostandFound's picture

repeat :/

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 07:49 | 4877312 DavidC
DavidC's picture

The word is 'alluded' - if you're going to use long words then find out what they mean and how they are spelt.


Fri, 06/20/2014 - 02:03 | 4877066 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

Really? I have to debunk a Telegraph artilce on ZH?? For cryin' out loud...

"...Isis invaded the al-Muthanna mega-facility... a rapid takeover that the US government said was a matter of concern."

They forgot to add: "A deserted CW facility abandoned by Iraq 25 years ago - after it was bombed to hell in the first Gulf War and after the UNSCOM team destroyed (1992-94) anything useable."

Mega? Sure, like 5 sq. km or so in the desert. Our shopping malls are bigger than that.

Invaded - in a rapid takeover? They just drove there. Anyone with a pickup truck driving down Hwy. 23 over the last two decades could 'invade and rapidly takeover' the al-Muthanna ruins. Sheesh...

I'm not seeing a bee-hive of chemical weapon production in the satellite image. The only thing left standing is the fake bunkers and decoy buildings. Good job, ISIS!

Matter of concern? Yeah... for the copper and brass thieves. They 'invaded and rapidly took over' anything valuble after UNSCOM left in 1994. If there were any useable CWs to be recovered after the Gulf War, Saddam dug them out twenty years ago. They're useless by now. 

"...Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, a former commander of Britain’s chemical weapons regiment, said that al-Muthanna has large stores of weaponized and bulk mustard gas and sarin, most of which has been put beyond ready use in concrete stores."

Had - twenty-five years ago. It was nearly all destroyed by UNSCOM. In fact, they used al-Muthanna for the central CW destruction site for Iraq. The only thing they couldn't move and destroy were the contents of two storage bunkers damaged by American bombs. They poked around inside, found a lot of unexploded bombs and containers,  and decided to just seal the bunker up. That generally means 'fill with concrete', not something stuipd like this. If ISIS has a decent compressor, a lot of jack hammers and a few months, they might get lucky and find a rusty tonne cylinder of 25+ year old almost completely degraded bulk mustard agent. Iraqi Sarin was low quality and degraded quickly. If the snackbars manage to find any after this long, it could still be hazardous - if they DRANK it right out of the warhead.

"...One US official told the Wall Street Journal yesterday that Isis fighters could be contaminated by the chemicals at the site..."

Great. Thanks for tipping them off, blabber-mouth.


Fri, 06/20/2014 - 03:27 | 4877141 Reptil
Reptil's picture

agree with this.

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 05:36 | 4877212 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

He would be more believable if not for his convenient errors in fact, such as the sight being 5km x 5km (as opposed to "5 sq. km") and such utter nonsense as the "The only thing left standing is the fake bunkers and decoy buildings", when in fact: the real bunkers are standing a lot better than what is left of the dummy bunkers.

The other facts are more accurate, but I won't speak to the characterizations.

Those are rather difficult factual errors to accidentally make, even when using hyperpole, absent advancing an agenda.

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 11:45 | 4878101 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

The 'site' is mostly level sand with little patches of ruined buildings.

But technically, you're right, Iraq originally claimed the mega-facility was 5x5km, not 5 sq. km. Ignore the REALITY of the satellite image and draw some little dashed lines in a five by five km square. Gosh, that sure changes things - better mask up and pop a few autoinjectors right this minute just to be safe!


"...the real bunkers are standing a lot better than what is left of the dummy bunkers..."

Sure. No need to look at them satellite image. If you go to the top right, you can see the edge of the 1x1 km complex of cross-shaped storage bunkers. Guess which ones are the six decoy bunkers and which ones are the real ones. Hint: the decoys don't have access driveways because there are no doors because they're just piles of dirt. That would be the outside ones. The bomb-damaged ones that held CWs look like they have been leveled. The five remaining real bunkers are either empty, looted or filled with old (empty) CW containers and empty shells. 


"...Those are rather difficult factual errors to accidentally make..."

Really? I'm some random idiot on ZH. What's the Telegraph's excuse? What was Colin Powell's excuse?


"...absent advancing an agenda."

Yeah - obviously I'm a shill for the fake ISIS. You should listen to the Telegraph, tremble in fear and demand Obama Tomahawk the crap out of someone, somewhere. You know... it's for the kids!


Fri, 06/20/2014 - 15:27 | 4878931 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Your approach to the "value" of what is in the toxic waste dump appears to be from the perspective of loading shells into artillery and having them function as designed, or being into able to kluge an effective alternate delivery and dispersion mechanism.

What you are ignoring is a marauding horde adversary who employs 1) classical terrorism in conjunction with 2) 21st century PR & psyops and 3) is (or was) already in possession of chemical weapons.

If all that was actually in the sarcophagus was Colin Powell's washing soda - it wouldn't make a difference. And if they load up a pickup with that washing soda (or whatever may be left of their existing CW inventory) and assault the Hussain ibn Ali Shrine, no one is going to stop to perform chemical analysis.

BTW, while the Telegraph is staffed with shill assclowns who use inexcusably used Google to mislocate a chemical weapons dump, it isn't an excuse for lowering the bar.

Sat, 06/21/2014 - 19:14 | 4881385 trader1
trader1's picture

i think ZH knew what they were doing here.  

that's why the comments section is usually entertaining.  


Thu, 06/19/2014 - 20:20 | 4876031 sushi
sushi's picture

So ISIS uses new found WMD against Malaki's government which causes it to collapse and this is seen as a positive development by the USSA who then goes ahead and bombs Syria cause Assad is a real bad dude?

Just trying to stay on top of the play by play here.


Thu, 06/19/2014 - 20:53 | 4876146 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture


Everybody gets their turn to be bombed and their countires shattered.

The US/NATO and Israel then get to tag-team to dominate the region - a defacto greater (and well oiled) Israel perhaps is the hope.

But then the best laid plans of mice (Bilderbergers) and men

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 00:57 | 4876994 Lore
Lore's picture

..."Gang aft agley."

I don't think the USA and Israel are friends like they used to be, maybe not for much longer. There are too many conflicting statements coming out, and too many conflicting interests, and too many psychopaths setting each other up to take blame for things.  Ultimately, what matters most to regional powers is who your closest neighbors are, what currency they trade in, and how much reserves they have for export.   He who supplies most and runs out last laughs best.

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 08:52 | 4877443 Froman
Froman's picture


Thu, 06/19/2014 - 19:23 | 4875757 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

Chemical weapons (including the various poison gasses) are classified as WMDs.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 19:27 | 4875771 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

The lies and propaganda (hidden Chem weapon mfg) are coming fast and furious these days.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 21:41 | 4876331 marathonman
marathonman's picture

I smell a truck load of bullshit in this story.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 22:42 | 4876600 tony wilson
tony wilson's picture

fella you do not know what you are talking about.

i have seen the intel so best leave it to the pros.

those truck loads of bullshit are mobile and as colon powell said at the un have the active capacity to spread liquid and hardened bull crap beyond iraqs borders.

arriving in london or paris or munich in a matter of 8-14 days depending on stop offs for food and drink.

only a matter of time before these hot turds hit the usa homelands.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 22:53 | 4876636 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Where you been yo!?

Already biological warfare happening in the south with many illegals carrying a whole laundry list of diseases.

Biowarfare and demographic warfare right in 'murika's back yard.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 23:24 | 4876754 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

All with the Commander in Chiefs blessing...

Hell's Bells, he's even paying to have them bussed into the neighborhood.


Fri, 06/20/2014 - 00:33 | 4876814 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture


Chemical weapons have been reclassified as WMDs recently to provide justification for invading and destroying countries.  It is a political reclassification.  Technically they are not WMDs.

And never mind that Saddam was given the equipment and chemicals by the US and Germany to create the gas.

The WMD label was a wonderful 'go bomb Baghdad free' card.

But then after Iraq, Gadaffi didn't have WMDs.  But he did have oil and was proposing a pan-African gold dinar.

Bomb that bastard as well! He's gettng ahead of the Chinese.


Saddam was a CIA operative:

"...While many have thought that Saddam first became involved with U.S. intelligence agencies at the start of the September 1980 Iran-Iraq war, his first contacts with U.S. officials date back to 1959, when he was part of a CIA-authorized six-man squad tasked with assassinating then Iraqi Prime Minister Gen. Abd al-Karim Qasim. ..."


Then there's Cheney:

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 11:43 | 4878094 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Fuuuuck. Setting off a large firecracker in the US will get you charged with using a WMD.

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 00:35 | 4876947 Gregor Samsa
Gregor Samsa's picture

At this current time, 6 people have absolutely no sense of humor.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 20:53 | 4876149 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

Well said. Despite the oft repeated (and brain-dead) claim that there were no WMDs and Bush just made them up there are thousands of Iranian and Kurdish victims that can testify that Saddam had and used chemical weapons at one point in time. What happened to them and why the US couldn't find them is another question. One rumor says they were sent to Syria for safe keeping and the Syrians said "thank you for the gift". Maybe Saddam was telling the truth when he said he destroyed all of them as ordered after Gulf War I. Anyone who thinks they never existed is probably disconnected enough from reality to think the holocaust didn't happen either.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 21:22 | 4876252 Squid Viscous
Squid Viscous's picture

If you keep watching Fox news, you never know where "one rumor says" those pesky WMD's might have ended up, keep us posted!! maybe Yemen? or in your mom's basement?

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 22:54 | 4876641 falconflight
falconflight's picture

I can picture you blowing Ed Schultz and while Rachel Madcow is taking you with a strap-on.  :)

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 23:18 | 4876734 Squid Viscous
Squid Viscous's picture

lol, I hate those fucks as much as you, guaranteed- it's hard to put me in a box, but keep trying

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 23:53 | 4876850 falconflight
falconflight's picture

And me as well, so stop trying.

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 00:13 | 4876893 Squid Viscous
Squid Viscous's picture

wtf does that even mean? you can do better than that...i hope, or lay off the pillz

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 00:16 | 4876908 falconflight
falconflight's picture

You're a bit slow on the uptake.  I'm not criticizing you, just saying.  Read your post and then read mine.  Stop trying to put me into an ideological box.

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 08:59 | 4877467 Froman
Froman's picture

Exactly because everyone that posts here knows that NBC, MSNBC, CNN, CBS and ABC are SO much more neutral and provide such non-biased reporting and are truly such beacons of journalistic integrity that they never spin stories and always ask the hard hitting questions concerning the current Administration as compared to Fox News. 

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 21:40 | 4876313 Gaius Frakkin' ...
Gaius Frakkin&#039; Baltar's picture

You're spreading BS.

These Chemical Weapons were already accounted for by UN inspectors...

Iraq 2.0 was supposedly about Saddam "hiding" chemical weapons that weren't accounted for, i.e. "mobile labs"

I have a question for you though. If chemical weapons were the real reason for Iraq 2.0, why weren't these removed when the USSA occupied the fucking place for 8 years? They managed to get the oil wells and refineries pumping in the same time.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 23:27 | 4876755 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

I think the answer to those questons lies somewhere in all those oil energy meetings Dick and his boyz had whose notes "our" Supreme Court refused to release

and those oil wells were the very first thing Dick secured

now of course other Dicks, like Hillary and her team, continue to play along

They are all murderers

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 00:44 | 4876969 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture


The WMDs are in Iraq.

It's depleted uranium spread as fine dust over many parts of the country.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 21:42 | 4876347 Rootin' for Putin
Rootin&#039; for Putin's picture

We know they existed, Rumsfeld still has the bill of sale somewhere.  We gave them to Iraq and said here, kill as many iranians with them as you want with our blessing.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 22:04 | 4876451 sushi
sushi's picture

Probably why it was so difficult to find them.

The drums of precursor chemicals would all have had labels stating "Proudly Made in the USSA."

Sort of like the F-4s we gave to the Iranians when they were good guys before they became the bad guys who may soon be back on our side as good guys to defeat the bad guys ISIS whom we funded and armed when they were good guys in Syria launching posion gas attacks for the benefit of the western media.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 22:30 | 4876569 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

You mean F-14s ?

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 00:45 | 4876976 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture


They got both F-4s and F-14s.

A twofer.


Fri, 06/20/2014 - 01:36 | 4877007 Lore
Lore's picture

+100 for Sushi's summary. Add "Arab Spring" to the list, along with so many others. Remember Iran-Contra?

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 23:30 | 4876775 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Ahhh, the Monsanto secret wonder the dangerous chemicals were safe

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 23:01 | 4876664 Dublinmick
Dublinmick's picture

Way to get that holocaust in ther izzy

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 23:07 | 4876687 falconflight
falconflight's picture

WMD is a boogeman politicial creation for a dumb and numb body politic.  US Criminal Code allows you to be prosecuted for using "WMD" for anything beyond a handgun.  Go look it up.  

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 09:38 | 4877598 ATM
ATM's picture

Nothing strikes fear like the thought of getting gassed. And for the bureaucrat/authoritarian/fucker fear is his best weapon for gaining more power.

"WMD's? Sure, Iraq has them, the Syrians have them, the Iranians have them and they plan on unleashing them on YOU!" Now let me do whatever I want to 'keep you safe' and everyone will be ok".

Same shit over and over and over.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 22:49 | 4876620 falconflight
falconflight's picture

It's a poor nation's nuclear option.  NBC (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical)

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 22:52 | 4876630 Squid Viscous
Squid Viscous's picture

if you're so good with acronyms, what does MOSSAD stand for?

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 23:04 | 4876674 falconflight
falconflight's picture

Movin into your neighborhood.  Ice-Tea was a MOSSAD informant, doncha know?

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 23:31 | 4876769 Squid Viscous
Squid Viscous's picture

now you're not even making coherent dialogue, lay off the pills dude, or seek some help...

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 00:38 | 4876959 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

Pretty sure just about everyone that took part in the WWI shit show would really disagree with that statement,

FYI - "Homeland" classifies a pipe bomb as a WMD stateside, so chew on that one.

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 03:18 | 4877132 TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture the new hangout for Jewish "what ifs"? Took me years to figure out the fuck faces at Zhedge espouse zero morality, plans, ideals or ways of life, they just try to get your jaw to drop at Anti Christian corruption.



Sat, 06/21/2014 - 19:17 | 4881399 trader1
trader1's picture

i bet that wasn't your last post :-P

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 19:12 | 4875710 Idaho potato head
Idaho potato head's picture

Now on to take the embassy.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 20:08 | 4875979 tony wilson
tony wilson's picture

mr potato

i think you will find that this is a cia run project.

the embassy will be ok and since the cia run the drugs and the oil in basra that area you will see will stay quite.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 23:42 | 4876828 Herodotus
Herodotus's picture

Remember that the ISIS guy said "see you in New York"

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 18:49 | 4875618 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture


Thu, 06/19/2014 - 19:57 | 4875930 datapanik
datapanik's picture

"What the fuck were we doing there for 10 years?"

Bombing, stealing oil and arming the militants.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 20:11 | 4875993 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture


Iws ISIS on our side, or ARE we ISIS, or do they CLAIM to be on our side, or are we financing them, or  .......

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 23:42 | 4876830 Squid Viscous
Squid Viscous's picture

"WE" are firmly on the side of Northrup Grumman, Boeing, General Dynamics, Halliburton, etc... war is the health of the state!

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 00:27 | 4876934 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

..and Lies are the one constant from The Ministry of Truth.

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 12:05 | 4878164 Squid Viscous
Squid Viscous's picture

Is Chalabi still available, he is way up there on my draft board... the best available lying scumbag left, according to the scouts

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 20:45 | 4876124 CCanuck
CCanuck's picture

Isis Fucked-Up

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 21:09 | 4876206 Kassandra
Kassandra's picture

Here come "The 300."


Fri, 06/20/2014 - 01:28 | 4877038 Mercuryquicksilver
Mercuryquicksilver's picture

US will never default because the politicians and bankers will be out of a job. They will drive this shit into the ground.

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 07:38 | 4877296 solidus
solidus's picture

Just when you thought your tolerance levels for our government's WTF moments couldn't possibly get any higher, we now find out that for 9 years we ignored a cache of WMD's and when we left we thought it a good idea to leave them for whomever might need them in the future.  Brilliant!

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 18:25 | 4875529 Four chan
Four chan's picture

isis are the guys that hid them.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 18:36 | 4875576 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Nobody hid anything.


The Telegraph is just recycling the "Weapons of Mass Destruction" meme as a propaganda ploy to justify another war in Iraq with American and British "boots on the ground".


And the public will buy into this "justification".


It worked once so why not use it again?


Damn the public. They are so fucking stupid.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 18:53 | 4875633 walküre
walküre's picture

Correct. Either American troops were fucking idiots for not finding the MEGA facility or they found it and were told to look the other way.

Telegraph better set this story straight. Their credibility is completely shot if this turns out to be a fluff propaganda piece.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 19:20 | 4875740 Unknown Rider
Unknown Rider's picture

Who do you think sealed and monitored the doors? Don't blame the military for what the MSM hides.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 20:03 | 4875959 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture



I do blame the military as the embedded reporters were prohibited from any negative reporting about the war, during the war, by the Military CENSORS.


Now you want to be an apologist for that policy?

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 01:22 | 4877031 walküre
walküre's picture

Yes AND to think the whole world was waiting for a BIG WMD find from the US which never materialized or at least, it was never reported as such!!!!!

This history is young and in the front of my mind like it happened yesterday!

WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON? How ROGUE are our governments in the US, Canada, Europe???

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 19:20 | 4875744 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Or some of our advisors are going to get killed by an improvised chemical attack. 

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 19:37 | 4875828 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

They are attempting to manufacture consent for an invasion. I have not a clue about the exact dynamic but you can be sure that the press will be the mouthpiece.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 19:56 | 4875926 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Which means that the local paper might just get another op-ed from me to head off whatever BS propaganda they're going to spew at us this time. 

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 20:17 | 4876007 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Our 'leaders' don't want us to invade Iraq. They want a Sunni-on-Shiite bloodbath in any state that isn't a US/Israel satrapy.

I was listening to some 'security expert' on the radio saying there was nothing we could do in Iraq, but, yes, this represented an increased terror threat in the homeland and should be dealt with via more homeland security and 'information sharing' between the allies. The reporter lapped it up. Then he went on to say that the increased terrrrrrist danger was 'blowback'. Blowback for our meddling, I thought he was about to say, but no, he then went on to redefine 'blowback' as meaning jihadis returning to the West from their crusades overseas.

I have a bad feeling things are about to take a major turn for the worse here in the West...

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 21:42 | 4876346 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Absolutely agree. We will pay the price for our idiotic meddling in the ME for over 60 years. Any sane person knows it is unwise to arm one side to defeat the other and then do the reverse when it is in your interest. Eventually the 2 fighting dogs will turn on the human.

I think the leadership is counting on them never unifying to take us on. That would really be interesting. The sad fact is the average American would be clueless what was happening and why.


Fri, 06/20/2014 - 21:59 | 4877014 Lore
Lore's picture

The budding Eurasian alliance is a natural reaction to PNAC. ISIS / ISIL (or something like it) was inevitable. You don't murder millions of people without consequences. 

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 00:42 | 4876968 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

It's almost as if they have constantly had two scenarios in play to justify a security crackdown in the west:

Scenario 1. - Al Qaeda post 911 terrorism gone dormant but now resurrected by ISIS, because....

Scenario 2. -  Demonization of Patriots and The Second Amendment to provoke a civil war has been losing traction.

Perhaps their wargaming has projected higher willing sheeple participation by direct victimhood tactics of the first scenario rather than the messy attrition of a slow civil genocide with the second option.

Or perhaps just a constant switch up of both...Scenario 1 keeps the MIC intact and strengthens that hand ultimately for a Scenario 2 where forceful martial law in the 'Homeland' ensures a civil war victory for the MIC.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 23:03 | 4876672 Dublinmick
Dublinmick's picture

What telegraph credibility? You must be late to the partty

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 19:19 | 4875728 Idaho potato head
Idaho potato head's picture

Hey Globe&mail and the
Enquirer confirmed it, what more do you want?

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 22:04 | 4876453 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

Not even close.  It will take something a lot more diabolical than US (eg chemical weapons attack directly on the US Embassy).  Even if chemical weapons are used by the Sunnis vs Shiites, the average American won't care.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 23:16 | 4876722 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

Lets us Colin Powell for confirmation of the facts. he did such a good job last time.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 18:44 | 4875600 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

I don't believe this story for a second. 

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 21:58 | 4876424 pods
pods's picture

This story is just to give us the political capital to start bombing.

These "weapons" were old news. They were probably placed in a hole and had concrete poured over them.

So anyone trying to "get them" must find a way to extract them from the concrete tomb they are in. And if there are live munitions in there, that makes it tough on the guy running the jackhammer.


Thu, 06/19/2014 - 19:00 | 4875659 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

I would wager that those WMDs were not there when Saddam went down.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 19:38 | 4875841 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

I will not wager against you on this point. I agree.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 19:15 | 4875676 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

But then how do we even know if the supposed ISIS found anything?!


"The only truth is that everything is a lie."

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 19:32 | 4875801 magnumpk
magnumpk's picture

I've heard that it's like a toxic waste dump - I think the stuff is highly dangerous, such that if they try to use it, they'll kill themselves with it - which would be nice.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 18:14 | 4875491 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

Jim willie has spoken before about how one of his sources, a merc who went into iraq to find the WMDs, actually did find chemical weapons, but they kept it on the DL because it turned out the chemical weapons had been supplied by the bush crime syndicate, and it was judged less harmful to say that "we were wrong about WMDs" than it was to say "we did find WMDs, and they were supplied by BUSH"!


Thu, 06/19/2014 - 18:23 | 4875514 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

That sounds very plausible considering Saddam was at one time on the side of the US during the initial Iranian crisis years. Besides we do know for a fact that Saddam used some form of chemical weapons on his own people (the Kurds).

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 18:26 | 4875537 Four chan
Four chan's picture

saddam like every gram of heroin in the us was put there by the cia.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 19:27 | 4875780 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Yeah, we found them, didn't take them because it was Boooossssesssshhh fault, then left them there.


Thu, 06/19/2014 - 20:36 | 4876089 ebear
ebear's picture

A friend of mine fought in the Iran/Iraq war on the Iranian side.  A conscript, he was wounded four times by shrapnel (showed me the scars) and witnessed gas attacks, although by good fortune he was never a victim of one.  The irony is, he's not even Muslim, he's a Zorastrian.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 18:49 | 4875615 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

At times Jim Willie is fed misinformation so that he can later be discredited. He is a very good critic and his analysis are spot on at times. Thus he becomes dangerous to the establishment.


Iraq was supplied with Poison Gas from the USA. Saddam used them all against the Iranians and the Kurds.


If Saddam still had Chemical Weapons he'd have used them on US and UK forces during the 2003 invasion. He had nothing left to lose other than his life...which he did. (Hell...if the USA were invaded by a foreign nation you can be damned well assured that we'd launch our Nukes. That would be most sensible from a Military viewpoint.) 


BUT THAT DID NOT HAPPEN. Thus the logical conclusion is that his stockpiles were depleted in Kurdistan (N. Iraq) and the Iran War.


Stop buying into the propaganda and lies of the Mass Media.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 18:55 | 4875639 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

From reading the info above apparently the militarized stockpiles are gone or sealed in concrete.  However, it also seems the site itself is one nasty stockpile of contaminated crap.  I suppose some of that can be used by mixing with other stuff, don't know.  For the money thrown down that rathole and the years we had a major deployment there, that the site wasn't completely cleaned up is scandalous.  Then again, there are so many scandals hard to get upset about any new one.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 19:10 | 4875697 Robinhood
Robinhood's picture

(Hell...if the USA were invaded by a foreign nation you can be damned well assured that we'd launch our Nukes. That would be most sensible from a Military viewpoint.) 

Please DO NOT group me in the "we" and if you think that "That would be most sensible from a Military viewpoint" you should consider yourself ripe for psychiatric evaluation and I encourage you to find some.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 19:27 | 4875775 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Invade my home, or, homeland and then see what happens.


I will use any and all force available to repel invasion.


If you are too much of a pussy to do that then get out of my way.


You will allow an invader to RAPE YOUR WIFE AND CHILDREN? I feel sorry for them.


You need Psychological intervention and REGENERATIVE SPINE THERAPY since you are lacking a spine.


My Street Address is 12223B Woodside Ave., Lakeside, California, USA.


Let's go hunting.



Thu, 06/19/2014 - 20:19 | 4876024 Robinhood
Robinhood's picture

Because you don't have the balls to fight. You'd rather push a botton that will distroy the planet and the food for all.

I will not allow anyone to Rape my wife and children as long as I'm alive to fight, Molon Labe Mother fuckers! I have plenty of ammo, food, etc.

Your above post reinforces my position that you need serious psychatric evaluation. You are having a very difficult time with reasoning.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 22:34 | 4876583 falconflight
falconflight's picture

You don't seriously believe that the politicians of Amerika and their bureaucratic enforcers still give a shit about American sovereignty do you?  The Central Bankers, the EU, and the US Gov't are united that national sovereignty is their bane.  It anyone was ever contemptuous of American nationalism, it would be Papa Doc Barack, and the entire DemPerv Party, their media molls, academia neo soviets, and the various openly socialistic non profits that are deeply embedded within the US Gov't.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 23:16 | 4876723 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

I'd burn my house down before I'd let some sonofabitch take it from me and enjoy it. 

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 20:21 | 4876035 BigJim
BigJim's picture

If the US is invaded, how would it help by nuking the invaders? They'd be on US soil.

If Saddam had had CW, exactly how could he have used them to repel the US military who were swarming all over Iraq?

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 20:28 | 4876047 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

The problem with Scotland is, it's full of Scots!

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 01:49 | 4877056 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture


If the US is invaded, how would it help by nuking the invaders? They'd be on US soil.

You nuke the invaders' country and it will disrupt the fuck out of their supply lines.  Nation-state wars are about logistics as much anything.  Starving armies tend to be lethargic and guns need ammo to be 100% effective.  But slinging nukes might result in nukes being slung back, even from people you weren't targeting.

If Saddam had had CW, exactly how could he have used them to repel the US military who were swarming all over Iraq?

CWs are a different animal than nukes.  They can be more local, but there are also chemical warfare suits, so probably not much if they were up against a bunch of guys bombing their positions from 30k feet and guys in tanks and humvees with gas masks.  As for disrupting US supply chains, well, Saddam would have needed a whole fuckton of chemical weapons and delivery systems that could have gotten it to US soil. 


That being said, invading the US would be a fucking nightmare even without nukes.

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 14:31 | 4878740 still kicking
still kicking's picture

You nailed it.  The only reason Napoleon didn't conquer the entire continent of Europe and finish off Russia is because he was a logistical dumbshit.  Brilliant battlefield tactician stupid as shit regarding logistics.  Also the reason the US and allies won WWII, US generals understood supplies and logistics, German generals did too but Hitler kept over riding decisions.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 21:58 | 4876421 falconflight
falconflight's picture

Many of the posters here pray for invasion and/or destruction of the Zionist States of Amerika.  I'd sarc tag it, but that is "their position."

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 22:43 | 4876603 Boiling Frogs
Boiling Frogs's picture

Invade my home, or, homeland and then see what happens.

 I will use any and all force available to repel invasion.

If you are too much of a pussy to do that then get out of my way.

Really? You live in SoCal and don't see the irony in your bluster?

You feel froggy? Jump! I doubt you'll need to go much further than your nieghbor's lawn crew to find what you claim to be looking for. 

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 22:57 | 4876655 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Invade my home, or, homeland and then see what happens.


Psssst! Don't look now but there seems to be a .gov facilitated invasion of S Americans going on ... Right now!

Since you're in CA I'm reasonably sure you've seen a few of them?

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 21:18 | 4876241 ebear
ebear's picture

"At times Jim Willie is fed misinformation so that he can later be discredited."

That's a good one.  Think I'll use it on the wife next time I'm wrong about something.

Uh... honey?   Not my fault really.  I was fed disinformation....LOL!

AFAIC, Jim Willie is just another guy who likes the sound of his own voice.  If he were a real threat, he'd be silenced.  Unless of course he was somehow "useful" in which case he'd be compromised and therefore unreliable.  C'mon.  Puzzle it out.

Not that I'm picking on him specifically - there are lots of Jim Willies on the net.  Very low barrier to entry there, and as we all (should) know, when you lower the price of something, the quality goes with it.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 21:57 | 4876414 A82EBA
A82EBA's picture

Nobody's on par with Jim Willie except maybe PCR

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 23:08 | 4876693 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

I'm not on board with PCRs claim of a planned Nuclear first strike on Russia.

According to some quick Wiki work the Soviets have 7 active boomers with a minimum of 250 deliverable warheads.

And I'd bet a grand they have portable nukes cached in several spots in the US already.

So I don't really see how anyone in the .gov, no matter how insane, thinks a first strike on Russia is possible.

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 10:54 | 4877884 SilverTech
SilverTech's picture

PCR is saying that the US neocons thinks they can get Russia to kneel by threatening nuclear annihilation. Isn't it clear that that's exactly what they're doing. They're putting anti-missile weapons to surround Russia. These systems would intercept bombers and missiles, leaving Russia no way to retaliate.

That still leaves sub launched missiles, of course. Maybe the US Navy thinks they could disable the subs before they were able to launch.

I don't think Russia has smuggled nuclear weapons into the US. That would be an act of war.

I also don't think that the US could completely stop ICBMs launched from Russia. They might get some of them, but even if they knocked out 90% the US would still be toast. If they actually shot down 50% of the ICBMs I'd be astonished. The Russians would probably thousands of missiles and decoys at the same time and would take out the anti missile batteries with tactical nukes before they could even get started.

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 17:53 | 4879322 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture
  • Large arms caches were hidden in many countries for the planned terrorism acts. They were booby-trapped with "Lightning" explosive devices. One of such cache, which was identified by Mitrokhin, exploded when Swiss authorities tried to remove it from woods nearBern. Several others caches (probably not equipped with the "Lightnings") were removed successfully.[16]
  • Preparations fornuclear sabotage. Some of the hidden caches could contain portabletactical nuclear weaponsknown as RA-115 "suitcase bombs" prepared to assassinate US leaders in the event of war, according toGRUdefectorStanislav Lunev.[3]Lunev states that he had personally looked for hiding places for weapons caches in theShenandoah Valleyarea[3]and that "it is surprisingly easy to smuggle nuclear weapons into the US" ether across the Mexican border or using a small transport missile that can slip undetected when launched from a Russian airplane[3]


Notes in the archive describe extensive preparations for large-scale sabotage operations against the United States, Canada, and Europe in the event of war, although none was recorded as having been carried out, beyond creating weapons and explosives caches in assorted foreign countries.[57] This information has been corroborated in general by GRU defectors, Victor Suvorov[58] and Stanislav Lunev.[59] The operations included the following:

  • A plan for sabotage of Hungry Horse Dam in Montana.[60]
  • A detailed plan to destroy the port of New York (target GRANIT). The most vulnerable points of the port were determined and recorded on maps.[60]
  • Large arms caches were hidden in many countries to support such planned terrorism acts. Some were booby-trapped with "Lightning" explosive devices. One such cache, identified by Mitrokhin, was found by Swiss authorities in the woods near Fribourg. Several other caches in Europe were removed successfully.[61]
  • FSLN leader Carlos Fonseca Amador was described as "a trusted agent" in KGB files.[62]
  • Disruption of the power supply across New York State by KGB sabotage teams, which were to be based along the Delaware River in Big Spring Park.[60]
  • An "immensely detailed" plan to destroy "oil refineries and oil and gas pipelines across Canada from British Columbia to Montreal" (operation "Cedar") was prepared; the work took twelve years to complete.[63]
  • Lunev is mostly known for his description of nuclear sabotage operations that have allegedly been prepared by the KGB and GRU against the western countries. It was known from other sources that large arms caches were hidden by the KGB in many countries for these planned activities.. They were booby-trapped with "Lightning" explosive devices. One of such cache, which was identified by Vasili Mitrokhin, exploded when Swiss authorities tried to remove it from woods near Berne. Several others caches were removed successfully.[5]

    Lunev asserted that some of the hidden caches could contain portable tactical nuclear weapons known as RA-115 "suitcase bombs". Such bombs have been prepared to assassinate US leaders in the event of war, according to him [1] Lunev states that he had personally looked for hiding places for weapons caches in the Shenandoah Valley area[1] and that "it is surprisingly easy to smuggle nuclear weapons into the US, either across the Mexican border or using a small transport missile that can slip undetected when launched from a Russian airplane.[1]

    US Congressman Curt Weldon supported claims by Lunev but noted that Lunev had "exaggerated things", according to the FBI.[6] Searches of the areas identified by Lunev — who admits he never planted any weapons in the US — have been conducted, "but law-enforcement officials have never found such weapons caches, with or without portable nuclear weapons."[7]

    Poisoning of Potomac River[edit]

    According to Lunev, a probable scenario in the event of war would have been poisoning the Potomac River with chemical or biological weapons, "targeting the residents of Washington DC".[1] He also noted that it is "likely" that GRU operatives placed "poison supplies near the tributaries to major US reservoirs." [8] These allegations have been confirmed by former SVR officer Kouzminov [9] who was responsible for transporting pathogens from around the world for Russian program of biological weapons in the 1980s and the beginning of the 1990s. He described a variety of biological warfare acts that would be carried out on the order of the Russian President in the event of hostilities, including poisoning public drinking-water supplies and food processing plants.[10]


  • Google Soviet weapons caches. You'd be a nut to think they wouldn't pre-position weapons, and weapons of mass destruction. And it's only an act of war if you get caught.

Fri, 06/20/2014 - 03:11 | 4877130 ebear
ebear's picture

Everyone has their heros I guess.

Made you some money did he?

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 18:08 | 4875466 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Yes, in fact we did supply Saddam with weaponry. (not so sure about the bio/chem stuff)

 I was making a joke about how hard it was to find him after the invasion "#2", and how the CIA probably dug a giant hole and buried some shells full of poison for future use. ;-)

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 18:08 | 4875469 nmewn
nmewn's picture

So he did have them.

Well, I'm glad thats finally settled ;-)

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 18:36 | 4875577 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

When the Dems were trashing Bush over the lack of WMDs, what they really meant was "No WMDs of military value". Saddam only used those chemical weapons on the Kurds and other civilian dissidents, ergo they were not military grade but rather civilian grade. See? Bush lied, just like the Dems told us.

BTW, lest anyone think I'm defending Bush, I find Bush to have been a horrible president for numerous reasons, both domestic and foreign. On the other hand, at least with Bush in office America did have a press that reported all the bad stuff happening, like death counts of soldiers, homelessness, and all the other garbage that is no longer being reported. If I vote Republican it will only be because I want the press to do some reporting rather than merely making excuses for their master.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 20:12 | 4875996 falconflight
falconflight's picture

I find GW Bush to be one in a long line of horrible Presidents for not caring a wit about the Constitutiion.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 20:25 | 4876044 nmewn
nmewn's picture

We will have just law or we will not have any law, is where I'm at. Medicare Part D or any other slippery slope to the domination of the people by the state is abhorrent.

They've sold the idea of democraceeeee! as some sort of panacea but it only leads to bondage.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 21:27 | 4876270 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Absolutely! At this point I am disinclined to follow any laws other than the Moral Law.......

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 21:48 | 4876371 nmewn
nmewn's picture

They have always depended on good people doing the right thing, while they did the complete opposite.

I cannot film a cop making an arrest but they can film me everywhere? I cannot make a recording without consent but they can capture EVERYTHING? I have to hire a lawyer because they see I can afford one but the state has infinite resources to convict?

Guess what happens, as far as they can see now, I own nothing in their paradigm, it took a while, but its now done. And when I'm asked (or compelled) to give testimony or evidence "in good faith" against my fellow man under their auspices, I've seen nothing. I've seen it coming for some time.

I would rather it burn to the fucking ground than give them the satisfaction of inheriting this abomination of "law".

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 21:54 | 4876402 falconflight
Thu, 06/19/2014 - 22:06 | 4876467 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yes, we should have the real thing or we should kill it now before it metastasizes further.

Personally, I think its terminal already.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 22:26 | 4876551 falconflight
falconflight's picture

Sunset the Constitution and return to the Articles of Confederation.  

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 23:10 | 4876703 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture


Fri, 06/20/2014 - 02:02 | 4877067 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture


I have to hire a lawyer because they see I can afford one but the state has infinite resources to convict?

That is one of the nice things about having been flung into the legal system when I could not afford an attorney.  Despite the fact that it was civil, I now feel confident enough to defend myself in even a criminal case.   Walking into the courthouse the first few times to file documents pro se was scarier then when I had that guy with gang tats complementing the scars of the cigarette burns on his neck coming after me.  One way or another, the violence would have been over quickly, and I knew how it could play out, but dealing with the court system all by myself was a big unknown.  But once I started kicking ass, the walk into the courthouse got a lot easier.  If a cop thinks he can make my life hell because I cannot afford $250/hr for my defense, he's in for a rude surprise.  I'll take that public defender - for unbundled services which will boil down to procedural issues only.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 21:50 | 4876379 chunga
chunga's picture

It's too bad anarchy has so many rules.

Compared to what's going on now it might be ok, although who knows.

Thu, 06/19/2014 - 20:37 | 4876094 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

But the constitution is a horrible document that restricts our benevolent government from providing the urgently needed entitlements and protection from those willing to work harder and horde (save) more than we can comfortably do from our faux leather recliner chair.

The constitution is the single limiting document that separates us from our UTOPIA!

Ask Obama. He will tell you!

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