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Ukraine Truce Lasts "Several Seconds" Before Latest Fighting Involving "4000 Troops, Tanks, APC" Breaks Out
It took all of "several seconds", in the NYT's own words, for the latest proposal for a ceasefire, issued by Ukraine's new president Petro Poroshenko, to be "rejected."
Here is how the NYT framed it, and why the truce proposal is seen as a "lose-lose" idea from the perspective of the rebels: "After Ukraine’s new president, Petro O. Poroshenko, told reporters in Kiev on Wednesday that he might soon order a temporary, unilateral cease-fire as part of a broader 14-point peace plan, it took all of several seconds for pro-Russian militants to rule it out."
“I am a condemned man,” said a stick-thin fighter who, like many others here, identified himself only by an alias, Tarik, for security reasons. Sipping tea in the gloom of the lobby of Donetsk’s rebel-occupied administration building on Wednesday afternoon, he patted the magazine of the automatic rifle slung across his chest.
Any cease-fire would certainly be violated by the Ukrainian Army, he said, adding that he and other pro-Russian separatists would be arrested the minute the government had the opportunity.
“What peace can they possibly offer me?” he asked. “If they want peace, then they can leave.”
That's the big picture.
The details of the latest fighting, which broke out earlier this morning, come from Reuters :
Ukrainian troops and pro-Russian separatists were locked in fierce fighting in the east of Ukraine on Thursday after rebels rejected a call to lay down their arms in line with a peace plan proposed by President Petro Poroshenko, government forces said. Heavy fighting broke out at around 4 a.m. near the town of Krasny Liman, which itself has been under government control since early this month.
"We issued an ultimatum to the terrorists overnight to surrender their weapons. We guarantee their safety and investigation in line with Ukrainian law ... They refused," said government forces spokesman Vladyslav Seleznyov.
"Now we are trying to narrow the encirclement. They are trying to break out," Seleznyov said.
Ironically, the more a truce is trumpeted up, the worse the fighting gets: "Up to 4,000 separatist fighters could be involved in Thursday's fighting near Krasny Liman, and armored vehicles and possibly tanks were being used by both sides, the military source said. "There's a major battle going on which exceeds in terms of force and scale anything there has been up to now," a military source said."
Olesya, a woman in the village of Yampil near Krasny Liman, said Ukrainian forces had entered the village in armored vehicles bearing the Ukrainian flag.
"There's been no shooting. We residents went out into the street to watch the column - and then went back to hide in our houses again," she said by telephone from her house where she was with her husband and five-year-old daughter.
"But there was fighting all night. Mines were flying over our heads. Planes flew over and we could hear heavy weapons. It's awful what is going on here," she said.
Finally, the separatists fighters, realizing they only have to lose should they put down their arms, have no choice but to continue fighting, have "demanded that the Ukrainian military leave the region, called Donbass, while others wanted a war tribunal for Ukraine’s newly elected leaders. Most said they wanted the restoration of “stability,” the precise definition of which remained elusive."
“Maybe there was a way back when this all just started, when the people were out here with the flags to make their point, and before the killing,” said Denis, a separatist fighter from Makeyevka, a depressed industrial town outside of Donetsk, when asked how and when the conflict might be resolved.
Another fighter jumped in helpfully. “The Third World War,” he said to nods of assent.
So much for a detente which as we explained yesterday, even Putin is now working to promote. Sadly, as Denis summarized, any chance of a real truce is long gone as the time for diplomacy has passed. What remains will be a drawn out, mini civil war which will mark the lives of the citizens in the Donbas for a long time. The only winners now are those who seek continued instability in the region.
As for the general public, their focus on Ukraine has long since passed. Now, it is the turn of Iraq's 15 minutes of infamy to distract from whatever key events are quietly taking place behind the scenes.
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Good news for the New Normal this morning...
A few seconds..... not bad for the Blackrock mercs.
I fasted for a whole morning, once.
Very spiritual.
As usual, Viceroy Nudelman instructed the Kiev Kriminals to play Psyop games with the Donetsk and Lugansk separtists. The good news is no one believed the BS since these are standard CIA tactics, well studied by the Russians.
gosh.. I forgot all about the power of a "Viceroy"..
now I understand about how the checks and balances have been destroyed.
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Hillary demands that you cease your terroristic comments immediately.
>> I fasted
I fast between every meal, religiously. If I lose my willpower and break the fast with a snack I jump right back on. It is a very enlightening experience.
That approach works with drinking and smoking pot, too. Very good for the soul.
I've tried it with wanking as well but haven't had that much success. Might need to lower the bar.
Kiev plans to 'give' land taken in Donetsk and Lugansk to government troops. Question is, who does the land belong to, and what happened to the inhabitants? Sound like the Israeli model to you?
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukraines-land-agency-give-land-t...
Same way the Russians got there after starving out the Ukies?
Another Kiev/CIA Troll, I see. The Ukies that were starved also happened to be of Russian descent, and russians are descended in part from the Kievan Rus.
Anyways, I hope you enjoy being America's bitch.
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukraines-land-agency-give-land-t...
Hey Latina. I need your help. I'm also a Kiev/CIA Troll but since you seem to place quite a bit of emphasis on "ethnic descent," and my people are Irish, am I Ireland's bitch? Or because of my US citizenship, am I America's bitch? I just want to know where to report. Thanks. I'll listen off the air.
Since you so kindly asked Mortimer, the answer is I don't care since your situation is irrelevant to this discussion.
The Ukraine is now controlled by the USSA/EU under the management of Victoria Nudelman and CIA stooges. Since the overthrow of Yanukovich, the Ukrainians lost Crimea, are losing Donetsk and Lugansk, experienced a 40% drop in the Hrynia (local toilet paper currency), pensions are not paid, taxes are up, incomes are cut, gas and food prices up over 50%, and all of this mess is controlled by dual citizen Oligarchs. Just wait till the IMF comes in and gives the Ukies the ultimate fuck job. The Ukraine will have to build a fence with Russia to block the escaping slaves.
I like you.
Still wanting a dozen or so armored Russian divisions to cross the border, but I understand why they are holding out. Putin has more patience than I.
you would be mixed bitch
I think you could easily qualify as a bi-national m0r0n.
LL- the Ukrainian famine was a planned genocide by the same people who planned the Bolshevik Revolution.
http://www.faminegenocide.com/resources/year1933.html
Yes, and Ukrainians were not the only victims targeted by the famine. Kazakhs and Russians were also forcibly starved. A fact that Yatzi supporters conveniently forget.
Yes, the Marxists understood how to control people by systematically allowing access to food or denial when it suited them. They didn't care who starved as long as the perverse Bolshevik system consolidated its power and kept a grip on the population through terror.
As for Yats & friends, they will recall and forget as ordered by Nuland/Nudelman and friends.
Belarus also..but to lesser extent, as far as I know
I assume you guys speak of the holodomor. There was no ethnic bias in that operation unless you count that of the dual-citizen leadership of the Soviet regime. The artificial famine created by the Soviet commissars was a class war. Yes, the entire Ukranian countryside was devastated, and yes, ethinic Russians moved in, either by choice or by government edict. It must simply be put doen to irony that the region now wants to be part of Russia.
Who's bitch are you? You are Rothchilds bitch, bitch!
Russian slut doesn't know that Putin - huylo!
Better the Russian Slut than bowing to Nudelman/Nuland. At least the Russian women are better looking than the dual citizen uglies.
Most of present-day eastern and southeastern "Ukraine" were annexed to Ukraine by Lenin in 1922, which was then a Soviet Socialist Republic. The people in these regions are largely of Russian ethnicity who had been living there been for centuries.
Crimea was annexed to present-day Ukraine in 1954 by Kruschev. Present-day western Ukraine (i.e. "Galicia") was annexed to Ukraine in 1945 after WW2 by Stalin. This is where the Banderist Right Sector and Svoboda Neo-Nazis, who were the force behind the Maidan coup, largely hail from. Only present-day north and central Ukraine, around Kiev, were part of historic "Ukraine".
Assuming you can read a map, this link might help you better understand the Frankensteined-together country known as Ukraine:
http://i.imgur.com/XMzawux.jpg
Giving empty state owned land (of which there is lots in Ukraine) to soldiers (presumably in lieu of pay) is not the same as ethically cleansing and pushing out locals. And the comparison to Israel is absurd.
Really, you know that it is empty state land, and you are sure that no one ever lived there, considering that the Ukrainian Steppes have been inhabited for thousands of years? Looking inside your own soul, would you believe the promises of the Kiev Government, who have sworn to punish the rebellious Russians? Besides, the Oligarchs and the IMF own all of the government land, and they won't give anything back, they will just take.
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukraines-land-agency-give-land-t...
Yes, I do. I was in Ukraine last week, albeit in the west. Locals were showing me fallow farmland and explained that the government sits on it so it's not developed. The article you quoted gives no hint that the land would be stolen from locals. And I actually trust the Ukrainian government far more than the Chechyn scumbags doing the dirty work for Russia.
There never was a Truce.... it was just a Kiev trick to disarm the Donetsk and Lugansk anti government fighters.
The ukraine government could easily have ordered its troops to return to base and voila instant cease fire.
Instead the genocide continues:
http://veragraziadei.wordpress.com/2014/06/18/ukrainian-genocide-and-its...
Water, electricity and sewage have been shut-off in slavyansk, not exactly compassionate.
Moar 'democracy'...
It's called '"tough love", Neocon-style.
Old trick just like the north used in the Outlaw Jose Whales....
What they need is a Nobel peace prize winner to drone some sense into those men.
..and distribute nitro into the mix.
I think the Nobel Prize winner would love to work out a peace plan in a hot tub.
WTF have we done there?
Time for that leader to go too?
we have not distributed enough cookies there yet.
"he patted the magazine of the automatic rifle slung across his chest."
..damn good thing it was not an accursed U.S. semi-automatic.
NLP through a false dialectic - "laying down arms" is not "peace" it is SURRENDER.
false dialectic..
Cool.. - term of the day :D
"Pure sophistry" would have been too kind, and it is inaccurate -- both with respect to their ambitions and the means employed to achieve them.
There is a very clear method to their evil.
Or to be slightly less esoteric (given the depths to which humanity has sunk) -- why start at midfield when you can push the opposition to accept starting at 4th and 10 from their own goal line?
and a bullet in back of head.
Sunni vs Shite...Russian vs Ukranian....lots of hate out there....at least this one is not religious....
Here's another Novel Idea. Peace. How about giving Diplomacy & Peace a chance.
That idea worked out real well for the people ruled by the western puppet government now didn't it?
The world is like a ride in an amusement park, and when you choose to go on it you think it's real because that's how powerful our minds are.
The ride goes up and down, around and around, it has thrills and chills, and it's very brightly colored, and it's very loud, and it's fun for a while. Many people have been on the ride a long time, and they begin to wonder, "Hey, is this real, or is this just a ride?"
And other people have remembered, and they come back to us and say, "Hey, don't worry; don't be afraid, ever, because this is just a ride."
And we … kill those people.
"Shut him up! I've got a lot invested in this ride, shut him up!
Look at my furrows of worry, look at my big bank account, and my family. This has to be real."
It's just a ride.
All matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration – we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.
But we always kill the good guys who try and tell us that, you ever notice that? And let the demons run amok … But it doesn't matter, because it's just a ride. And we can change it any time we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings of money.
Just a simple choice, right now, between fear and love.
The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your doors, buy guns, close yourself off.
The eyes of love instead see all of us as one.
Here's what we can do to change the world, right now, to a better ride.
Take all that money we spend on weapons and defenses each year and instead spend it feeding and clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would pay for many times over, not one human being excluded, and we could explore space, together, both inner and outer, forever, in peace.
- Bill Hicks -
always good to read Bill's words, and others who found the same awareness,
it's a shame that while so many admire these words, so few choose to live by them, so few truly choose between
fear and love.
Yes & TY!
Good read and I appreciate you posting it. Wonderful perspective. That being said:
>> The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your doors, buy guns, close yourself off.
I lived for a few years in a very rough, very very rough, neighborhood. I went in happy go lucky, with love in my heart. I tried to treat everyone as equals, as I always do. But the locals, they were breaking in on a weekly basis. They were killing my neighbors. They were obviously full of hate and aggressive in their hatred. I did buy locks. And I did buy guns. And I did close myself off. Until I could get myself the fuck out of there (I had commercial real estate I needed to sell). So, although I buy into the gist of the writings, sometimes buying guns an locks and closing yourself off is warranted, unless you're hell bent of finding out sooner, rather than later, what awaits us in the afterlife. I decided not to rush things.
Wasn't the one that campaigned
that concept-('give Peace a chance')
assassinated on the sidewalk of New York some
time ago..?!
Let me answer again with Bill Hicks:
Gandhi - murdered
John Lennon - murdered
JFK - murdered
MLK - murdered
Jesus - murdered
Reagan - wounded...
Hey, according to yesterday's press conference, the fed is "monitoring" geopolitical concerns, so no worries. They've got this covered. Buy some stocks today.
Putin - HUYLO!
That's quite a repertoire of commentary you have there, Chim Chim.
You'd think that in the 38 weeks since the CIA's neo-nazis stormed the Maidan and ZH (again) - he would come up with a slightly more diverse repertoire.
http://www.zerohedge.com/search/user_comments?name=gold_pa3ot
For those not speaking Ukrainian, the English translation is: "Fuck You Bernanke"... or "Fuck The EU" if spoken in Nulandish dialect.
"Tarik" is neither Russian nor Ukrainian name. No Rus or Ukr would call himself that. This is a Chechen name. yes, he's a Chechen mercenary, who gets paid $200-300/day to create a pretext for Putin's invasion of Ukraine. So, Tarik, be a Putin's bitch (all you can be) and fight like a man to the end!
Ukes shoudl take IMF's cash and hire Blackwater. Let's f*&^% russkies up once and 4 ever!
>> $200-300/day
I though the going rate for a Cheechen was more like $1 a day? And that's for carrying suicide bombs. $300 a day to hack away on a computer? Fuck there's a whole bunch of freekin' US code writers out there who'd work for that, and they speak the lingo. I think you might need to polish up your schtick.
.
Reading comprehendings problem? Article told that names used were alias. If that guy called himself Jerzy or Leszek will you jump into conclusions he is Polish mercenary paid by Yatzi junta in Kyiv?
Funny coming from troll hiding behind keyboard in Lviv.
Typical Kyiv Yatzi bravery on display. But hey, when cowards can borrow money, might as well outsource the wetwork.
Let's? Go ahead, nothing is stopping you except your own cowardice. Get your share of the crime, Kyivan Yatzi Junta Citizenism citizens do not feel comfortable with honest people. Time to blend in.
You know what I found curious about "b_thunder"? The fact that he's supposedly a registered ZH user for 4 years, yet to this day he only made 8 anti-Russian comments, with first one dating 06/01/2014.
Note another fuckhead next to him - "gold_pa3ot". Supposedly a registered user for 38 weeks (9.5 months), but only 8 postst with the first dated at 06/17/2014.
"Winston of Oceania" registered for 2 years and 8 weeks. First post - 05/31/2014. Really?!
Following the start of the CIA coup in Urkrain ZH got flooded with anti-Russian posts from newly registered users from February 2014 and onwards. ZH regulars caught onto the fact quickly and singled out the NSA plants. Many were banned.
So then the pro-Ukraininan propaganda began eminating from dated users who, despite having respectable registration dates, only had posted comments recently.
Either the NSA hack[er]s are forging user data, or taking over dormant accounts.
Next step will involve them hacking active users. I've seen it all before.
I will be reposting this next time Ukraine related posts show up. These types of trolls are always around.
.
Yes, well, that metric isn't as reliable as it used to be. For some reason, all articles posted before 1 June 2014 have had their comments section purged.
Regarding the idiot gold_pa3ot, this is one of those times when this information can be used to make certain inferences. His sole purpose for existence appears to be vomiting up the same anti-Putin hairball in the comments of articles about the Ukraine or Putin. If he'd been posting prior to 17 June 2014, his retarded retchings would have been left in the comments of other Ukraine/Putin articles from the first half of June.
I checked my own journal. The system did indeed get purged some time this year. So I might've wrongfully accused some people. I recall being able to go all the way back to registration at ZH. Something must've happened. The comments are still in google cache though. I'll do some research and if suspicions are confirmed, I'll get back to it.
If there are NSA or other alphabet agency plants at ZH they're much more likely to be listening as oppose to posting childish insults... and when it comes to insults, even I let my tongue slip. No one's perfect.
Gold over 1290. Would be pretty nice to see over 1300 today.
Don't be doing a Tyler on the gold price HoM.
I don't think I pull that kind of weight, so don't worry...
If you're worried about the paper price then you are buying gold for all the wrong reasons.
>> nice to see over 1300
Take it from me, it's no big deal. I've seen it over $1,300 a bunch of times.
I know. It's nicre on the way up than on the way down....but yeah, i look for the small, very small, victories...
This can only end in one of two ways. Either Ukraine crushes the opposition to the point of unconditional surrender and acceptance of defeat or Ukraine withdraws and the opposition wins independence.
Of course the smart people running the world will let the fighting continue until there is absolutely no chance anyone will accept any sort of reconcilliation and then enforce a false peace on both sides that provides for no clear winner while making everyone feel disgruntled, cheated, and abused. The house must remain divided if you want to control it from the outside.
I think the US plan is a protracted conflict where the gas pipelines are rendered inoperational. That would also keep Russia busy.
The EU would then be forced to buy into the stopgap fantasy of LNG and NATO countries would be inclined to support the US in its reinvasion of Iraq and Syria with the goal of redrawing borders in order to clear a path for a new pipeline from Qatar to Turkey.
Good analysis. Let's hope the USSA invades, and finally self destructs.
Noodlestein = War Criminal
Only my two cents.
Ukraine as a Nation, with official elected head of State, will not and is not going give into some Pro-Russians, thinking they are going to secede from National boarder.
This is about the national boarder.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Get over this U.S.A. / Russia thing, both are only by-standers right now?
Damn ! Your all putting to much into this.
Ukraine has never been a sovereign nation.
But at this point in time, it still belongs to Ukraine. And it shall remain so.
Thank You.
And there ladies and gentlemen lies the truth from Russian perspective. The same holds true for Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland none have a right to exist outside of Russia.
Ignorant response.
crack a dictionary for definition of sovereignty...
Ukraine has never been a sovereign nation.
The source of ultimate decision making power is located outside the borders, as it has been for centuries...
Ukraine has lived stateless...and now Ukraine is a failed state
Only Russia has interest in Ukraine as stable neutral Nation as a neighbor.
Other interests roam the world breaking, taking and destabilizing..spreading death and depradations.
and arrived to Kyiv.
No, this is now about ethnic cleansing, and total domination by a small group of fascists in Kiev, controlled by the USSA. The mythical country of Ukraine is broken never to be repaired. It is finished.
Pardon Me, but I think your wrong. Are you here in Ukraine? Do you speak with people on the streets here every day? I do. I'm here in Odessa as I write this. And I must confess, these people here are not under anyones control. Not Russia's not U.S.A.'s not your's and most certaintly not mine. They only want to live there life in peace without controls of anyone's. They are no different then any other loveing peoples. They have no bone to pick with U.S.A. or Russia either one. So get over this "Government Control" thing you spew here. Sorry, I'll end my rant with you. Sorry.
It doesn't matter what "people" want, because they don't decide things. Sooner or later, "people" will be forced to pick sides, then the other side will become their mortal enemy. Nobody will ask you for opinions or consent. Even more so in what used to be the USSR...
Odessa?
Did you see the burned bodies up close?
Yes Stalin already entinically cleansed the Ukies out and colonised the area with Russians.
Ukraine has never been a sovereign nation.
Most know nothing about Ukraine.
crack open a real history book
"Ukraine A History" is best for English reader. Author Orest Subtelny. Canadian of Ukrainian origin.
Garbage!
and, it's border not boarder.
I heard Lt Gen Paul Van Riper (ret) is coming out of retirement to lead the rebels using asymmetric strategy similar to Millennium Challenge 2002. Something about showing the west he won back then.
Kyiv plans to hunt and arrest Russian Journalists.
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/06/ukie-hunt-on-russian-journalists-and.html
Ukraine government will fold any day now.
It has no money to pay it's ARMY unless the break away regions are re claimed pronto as the terms of IMF/western loans stipulate that Ukraine must be whole before the funds will be released, and Russia isn't going to relinquish the Crimea...
Poroshenko-friendly Ukrainian (or better called PUkes) Division "Aydar" wiped out near Metallist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efMosh4xCow&feature=youtu.be