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Ukraine President Unveils 10Km "No Man's Land" Buffer With Russia; Declares Unilateral Cease-Fire
UPDATE: Not going well... UKRAINE REBELS SAY WON'T DISARM UNTIL KIEV WITHDRAWS TROOPS:AFP
Petro Poroshenko earlier called Russia's Vladmimir Putin to explain his 14-point plan (to be unveiled to the public later today) to curb the pro-Russia insurgency in the east. As AFP reports:
- UKRAINE PRESIDENT SAYS UNILATERAL CEASEFIRE TO BEGIN TODAY TO JUNE 27
- Ukraine peace plan to call for 10-km buffer zone on Russia border
As Reuters notes, it was not clear if the whole of the proposed demilitarized no-man's land would be on Ukraine's side of the border or part of it on the Russian side. It was also not clear what the status of people living in border areas would be. Putin's initial response is to demand the "immediate end to military operations" against pro-Russian separatists.
President Petro Poroshenko will call for the creation of a 10-km (6.25-mile) buffer zone on the border with Russia under a 14-point plan to bring peace to east Ukraine, according to an unofficial copy published by media on Friday.
Ukraine says fighters from Russia and supplies of guns and other military equipment have been coming into the country to support pro-Russian separatists, and tightening control of the 1,900-km (1,190-mile) border is Ukraine's main security headache.
Details of the proposal to create a 10-km buffer zone, contained in a photographed copy of the 14-point plan and carried in Ukrainian media, were not spelled out.
It was not clear if the whole of the proposed demilitarized no-man's land would be on Ukraine's side of the border or part of it on the Russian side. It was also not clear what the status of people living in border areas would be.
Acting Defence Minister Mykhailo Koval told parliament on Friday that government forces were now back in control of the border and there was now no possibility of military equipment being ferried in to the rebels from Russia.
Ukraine's new President Petro Poroshenko on Friday released a 14-point peace plan to curb a pro-Russian insurgency in the east, calling for immediate disarmament and promising to decentralise power through constitutional reform.
The plan also drops criminal charges against rebels who committed no "serious crimes" and provides "a guaranteed corridor for Russian and Ukrainian mercenaries to leave" the conflict zone, Kiev's private Inter TV station reported on its website.
Earlier Poroshenko called Russia's Vladimir Putin to discuss the plan to end the bloodshed, the second late night phone conversation between the leaders this week, the Kremlin said.
"Poroshenko informed the Russian head of state regarding the main points of his plan to regulate the situation in south-east Ukraine," the Kremlin said in a statement overnight Thursday.
Putin gave "a series of comments" on the plan stressing an "immediate end to the military operation" that was launched by Kiev against pro-Russian separatist militia in Ukraine's eastern regions of Donetsk and Lugansk.
Let's hope the cease-fire lasts more than minutes... or is this simply another way to ensnare Russia and force US/EU hands to enforce the sanctions they have been threatening. It seems the argument over where the "no man's land" starts and ends will be a non-starter.
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NATO intrusion zone?
A buffer zone?
Porochenko is proposing a de facto Demilitarized Zone (DMZ), with the hope that he can invite NATO forces to act as "peacekeepers".
Say goodbye to the IMF money if this deal works.
When I first saw the headline, I thought, "Ten thousand miles? Isn't that, like, alot?"
(And, yes, I do know it's not a word.)
A 10km thick red line will be painted. Paid for by an IMF loan creating 1000s of jobs for Ukranian painters and wildly held as the greatest piece of diplomacy since since China gave Scotland a panda.
When Poroshenko was originally described as a "middle of the road" guy in regards to Ukraine and Russia, I didn't realize he was going to make his own road.
Silly me.
Will he BUILD A FENCE? I am sure he can borrow more money from the IMF for it. But maybe he should get advice on its construction from Israel instead of the USA, not like our Border fence is doing any good.
How far can a Russian tank fire an artillery shell?
Here is a list.
http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/274831-list-of-87-arty-gun...
The question was rhetorical though the symbollic meaning of 10km could easily be interperted as 10km for 10 tanks.
T90 main gun rated to have high accuracy/high probability of first time hit while moving at 6km range for Refleks HEAT missile, and 5km for conventional shells. T80 uses same weapon, but less advanced fire control. Note, this is a big gun - 125mm bore, compared to 120mm used on M1 Abrams and Challenger 2 (nb M1 Abrams 105mm rifled bore,M1A1 120mm smooth bore). The T90 reportedly has a significantly improved and faster autoloader, the achilles heel of earlier Russian/Soviet tanks.,
US Dollar Under Grave Threat: Russia Plans Global Retaliation For The Ukraine
They pounded Gronzy into the dirt with 152mm self propelled guns and howitzers, range about 30km.
The tanks bat cleanup and provide fire support to the APCs.
(if they chose to fight last war over again)
Yes, and self propelled guns can arrive, fire and are gone while the shells are still in the air. Accurate shelling does require spotters in forward positions though.
soooo everything outside the buffer if fair game for murder and mahem? this sounds more like a declaration of war more so than a peace agreement.
Just like the last "cease-fire" "agreement."
In Ukraine, cease-fire kills you!
Break out the Crayola Crayons.
It's gotta be SOME man's land.
Sez so in the sanity clause.
not necessarily, could put N. Poklanskya in charge there too:
http://rt.com/news/prosecutor-natalia-poklonskaya-crimea-101/
yes, what a prosecutie!
this ukraine thing is looking like yugoslavia in the '90's with putin as clinton (in this respect only) and obama as slobodan milosevic (in so many ways except likelihood of appearing in the hague court on war crimes charges, though he merits it far more than milosevic ever did).
seriously, think about it. most of these "war criminals" world wide (and they are largely evil, criminal people) are acting in their own country or at most adjoining territory with an ongoing dispute. the u.s., based on a spectacular assault by someone (who exactly is an interesting question) over a decade ago now claims the right to kill from the sky with robot weapons anyone, anywhere, for basically all time.
hitler could only dream.
"There ain't no sanity clause."
Chico Marx
Super. This setup workswell in Korea. /s
It must take a whole room full of jews to concoct such a plan.
They don't have to be Jews, but they do have to be desparate.
they don't have to be jews but it often involves zionists. that is the distinction.
glenn greenwald is a jew. he is on the side of liberty. so is naomi klein and a whole bunch of lesser known jews http://www.google.com/images?client=safari&rls=en&q=anti+zionist+jews&oe...
"Ukraine's new President Petro Poroshenko on Friday released a 14-point peace plan to curb a pro-Russian insurgency in the east, calling for immediate disarmament and promising to decentralise power through constitutional reform."
Trust us, just lay your guns down and everything will be okay........ Yeah right.
The Pol Pot sales line.
Pol Pot is the past - this is the work of his bang up to date nephew, Toss Pot.
Great call Winston! The extremists in the Kiev government are cut from the same cloth as Pol Pot. You have to do a little research in these people's statements, but they make clear in their very words that they plan wide scale murder. Their own words convict them of being fascist madmen.
The Kiev coup government is desperate, because time is not on their side. They are about to collapse econmically and socially. Their people's living standards are falling fast and that is before IMF austerity. In fact, NATO must be covering ALL military costs right now, because Kiev has no money to fund troops or weapons. The pay being offered men to fight in the East is very high. Way too high for Kiev, Washington and the EU are paying for this war. I am 100% sure of this. It is Putins duty as a man to send arms, money and advisers into East Ukraine to counter NATO attack dogs. Kiev is a failed state, full of liars, fools, theifs and killers. What more can you say, no wonder Washington supprts them fully!
.
As our friend AnAnonymous might say, Kiev has gone full 'american'.
Agreed, and as I have said before, winter will put paid to the Ukrainian army's efforts - it is notoriously undertrained and demoralised, and has been starved of investment since 1992
oops - accidental double post - sorry.
Gotta give them credit for the logic required to call this a "unilateral cease-fire."
It takes some serious balls (read: MSM backing) to publicly make such insane statements with impunity.
So the Kenyan Usurper found his pen and loaned it to Poroshenko to draw a new red line; presumably the junta in Kiev will use it to color everything inside this new line red as well, all the time daring Putin to cross the border.
Colored with blood yeah
Clever, devios.
anyone dumb enough to believe these lying snakes? i seriously doubt it... eventually, everyone can see the blood stains all over their hands.
I guess the US wants to retry the whole Georgian situation agian and maybe this time respond. If so that will give russia east-ukraine but leave the russian goverment without money. Suddenly it makes alot of sence why the ukraine army was bombing the region, the rebuild cost would be huge. I think they will intensify bombing and this whole cease-fire wil not last a day.
Damn right they do.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/10/us-moldova-georgia-idUSKBN0EL1...
Undeterred by the conflict triggered by Ukraine's swing towards Europe, the former Soviet republics of Moldova and Georgia will sign a trade and political pact with the European Union this month with Russia warning both countries against the move.
The two small countries - Moldova has a population of just over 3.5 million and Georgia 4.5 million - see the signing of an association agreement as the crucial step towards mainstream Europe, leading to eventual membership of the powerful EU trading bloc.
...
This was the same type of agreement Ukraine pulled out of that the that NATO engineered, State Department led Euromaidan protests and coup were in response to.
This is bigger than just gas and oil though Georgia overlaps with taking control of a feeder point to the east for the Nabucco since the North and South routes have been lost via Syria and even Ukraine if they manage to hold onto control of it. They need Georgia to compete against the South Stream project now even more since it is coming online, if they can get Iran into the fold or tied up in war including sabatoge of pipelines in Iraq while woar is raging even better. Ukraine is about Western flow of gas now since Transistria was always the fallback spigot point south of Ukraine if it went to the EU. It is also about keeping 'neutral' countries out of the CIS, the Russian upstart to compete against the EU.
Nicely said. AND, because NATO is the defense org for the EU, this could also mean eventual NATO membership for Moldova and Georgia. More ring-fencing around Russia?
Not likely unless NATO changed it's stance on allowing countries with disputed regions into NATO. Russia got that one covered also called Community for Democracy and Rights of Nations also known as CIS-2.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_for_Democracy_and_Human_Rights
Abkhazia / Georgia
Transnistria / Moldova
South Ossettia / Georgia
Nagonro-Karabakh / Azerbaijan
And of course NATO/EU had it's own way of countering that called the GUAM Organization of Democracy and Economic Development.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUAM_Organization_for_Democracy_and_Econom...
Georgia / Abkhazia, South Ossetia
Ukraine / Crimea unofficially now eastern Ukraine unofficially
Azerbaijan / Nagonro-Karabakh
Moldova / Transistria officially, Gaguazia unofficially.
As things look right now Ukraine depending the outcome probably winds up in the EU but not NATO if the current situation ends with a partition and East Ukraine remains disputed.
Moldova probably winds up in EU and both NATO losing both Transnistria and Gaguazia in the process. Signs point to at least Transnistria being officially recognized as an independent country or Russian territory as a minimum being palatible to both the sides at this point in time. Gaguazia is still a wild card but Russian leaning.
Georgia to early to call.
Azerbajian is probably next up after Georgia and Moldova plays out.
Also as another aside on Iraq and Iran with the jihad caliphate comedy tour rolling into Iraq now from Syria they've essentially put on hold any current east/west Iraq/Iran pipeline projects or further expansion until the chaos settles down. They've essentially cockblocked Iran out of the EU gas market and Nabucco since the North land routes are blocked by the Kurdish regions (you are not getting a deal done with Kurds and Turks both involved) so the only other route they might have is north through the Caspian Sea. That ain't happening either considering gas fields in the Caspian Sea and the jockeying for control of them including disputed water rights between Russia, Azerbaijan and Iran among others bordering the Caspian Sea.
In chess it would be like the "semi-slav" defense
Poor Oshenkostein vs. Russian Armed Forces.
I knew this would end in a Ukrainian invasion of Russia, which is what a peace plan that forces a "buffer zone" in another sovereign country more or less amounts to. Everyone thought I was insane, but NATO wants to Balkanize Russia and the Ukrainian Nazis are nothing more than useful idiots, disposable and expendable, to accomplish this purpose.
You ARE insane, the Ukraine will not be invading Russia. Nobody will be invading Russia, not even on paper.
I don't think a "peace plan" scribbled on a napkin by the CIA is going to bend Putin's knee.
"mano a mano" time.
You sure that wasn't a 100 kilometer zone?
Again...for the record I support neither the diplomacy "nor the apparent war." Having said that if this thing goes hot "this gives new meaning to the term every tool in the tool box."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M270_Multiple_Launch_Rocket_System
The whole thing is like a TV series where you know what happens in the series final.
Spoiler-alert: Putin wins.
Shhh, don't say that out loud!
Me think US army forces have to remove power from Washington DC and return it to the people.
The army has already sworn to protect the Constitution - which nobody in Washington DC seems to do...
You obviously aren't familiar with promotion process for flag-officers.
President Pee Pee: At the rate you are carrying out the Nuland-USSA-EU ordered ethnic cleansing of Ukrainian Russians, you will soon be able to declare and post the entire eastern Ukraine as your new, prohibited no-mans-land. 'Gotintog'.
Sounds like a whole bunch of ethnic russian and Ukraine farmers getting fucked out of 10K of land to me
And besides he Pork Chop needs to be negotiating with the Donbass not Putins call.
Land mines gotta grow somewhere!
Nearly every plan for the Ukraine involves trying to get the 'other guy' to do what you want him to do... and it doesn't work when both sides try the same strategy...
When are the Russians going to start torching the Chocolate kings Ukraine President's assets all over Russia and Eastern Ukraine?
They dont really believe that he sold them do they?
A new DMZ int he making!!
Just had an interesting event with 2 men coming to my front door. They handed me a pamphlet espousing the need for "a one world government". I responded by saying..."Sir, this is antithetical to everything I believe. And to illustrate my point, you completely disregarded the "no solicitors" sign on my front door believing that your message outweighs my right to privacy. That being said, Go Fuck Yourselves."
LOL. So, what group were they representing? And did they smell of Soros?
And then you got this :
Ukraine opens fire on Russia in Dolzhansk, Rostov.
And this :
Russian Customs Officer shot at the Russian-Ukrainian border
Er, did these actually happen? Or are they predictions? (probably will happen, if so) I had not heard that Ukrainian border guards shot into Russia. Yet.
June 27........ Why not not pick June 28, or July 28, you know, to REALLY make history rhyme / repeat.
Well June 27 : Ukraine signs the EU deal...
looking at israels involvement in these country take downs may i be sold bold as to suggest a wall like the great zionist wall of israhell.
let it be 6 million cubits thickness representing a constant reminder of the spielberg hollowcause.
let it be a billion horse hands long representing the billion poor innocent jewish souls who have died since the beggining of are changed bbc histories.
let the wall not be a beacon a talisman for the future but a warning that yats the yid will not take this insurection any more.
time runs monsanto has gm corn to grow.
chevron and esso have frack futures and water payments already sown
The "South Front" Self Defense Force support page on Facebook offered up a post battle video yesterday. 8+ minutes long following a battle against a Ukrainian Malitia group called "Aidar Battalion" a newly created right sector Euro Maidan group. Well armed and equipped the Kiev battalion did not look so fit as the video showed the wounded, dead and destroyed APCs. Most telling were the prisoners being asked questions. Such as "Why are you here?" "You came here to kill people, and you thought nobody would fight you?" "Do you have children, why are you here and not home with them?" "You come to my homeland to kill and now what shall we do with you?"
In the end, the captured are very lucky because they will be kept for prisoner exchanges.
Prisoner answers as to why they were there centered around the pay. One said he was there on a contract of 3,000 Ukrianian currency units, whtever they are. Another said he was getting 2,500 a day. A third said he was drafted, "he was a liar."
This Aidar group was created because the regular Ukrainian troops have no desire to fight, the Kiev coup leaders are sending the Right Wing groups and Nazi groups east.
If anyone thinks war is cool, I suggest going to "South Front", scroll way down to yesterdays videos and watch it. One wounded dies on camera during the 8 minutes, his fate is not pretty. Nor did the Kiev Junta fascists taken prisoner look too happy. The Pro Russian fighters made sure to tell them how lucky they were, as Kiev fascists tend to kill wounded off and shoot prisoners.
to: ..."Putin demands immediate end to the military operation that was launched by Kiev against pro-Russian separatist"......
The key to stop conflict in Ukraine is in Putin's hands. The irony is that it would not be difficult to Putin to achieve this if he would be really interested for it.
He should:
1. stop military/personal support of militant separatist
2. clearly state that Russia do not accept joining east Ukraine to Russia if not accomplished by political agreement ( militant separation is not the accepted way, separatists must demilitarize first ). (off course: This would not work if Russia makes only such official statements but in background continues playing opposite role )
Putin invoked the militant separatism by Crimea separation pattern. If Ukraine would try to stop that Crimea separation, it would be also a lot of blood there.
There is really no people on the Earth who could more efficiently stop the conflict than Putin...even without blood.
... the problem is that Putin wants east Ukraine for any price.
If my fellow Russian citizen will suffer you will know my wrath.
le video of the beginning of the border shootings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vd3BpuSVkE