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China Builds World's Most Powerful Nuclear Reactor; Regulators "Overwhelmed"

Tyler Durden's picture


We are sure this will end well. Just as China took the 'if we build it (on free credit), they will come' growth model to extremes in real estate; it appears their ambitions in nuclear energy production are just as grandiose. However, just as they lost control of the real estate market, Bloomberg reports China is moving quickly to become the first country to operate the world’s most powerful atomic reactor even as France’s nuclear regulator says communication and cooperation on safety measures with its Chinese counterparts are lacking. France has a lot riding on a smooth roll out of China’s European Pressurized Reactors (EPRs) as it is home to Areva, which developed the next-gen reactor, and utility EdF, which oversees the project. French regulators, speaking in parliament, warned, "the Chinese safety authorities lack means. They are overwhelmed."



Not what you want to hear as the nation embarks on the biggest nuclear energy facility creation ever, "if too many nuclear power projects are started too quickly, it could jeopardize the healthy, long-term development of nuclear power..." and the Chinese (just ask the Japanese).


As Bloomberg reports, China is moving quickly to become the first country to operate the world’s most powerful atomic reactor even as France’s nuclear regulator says communication and cooperation on safety measures with its Chinese counterparts are lacking.

Chinese builders are entering the final construction stages for two state-of-the-art European Pressurized Reactors. Each will produce about twice as much electricity as the average reactor worldwide.

The French are in charge... kinda...

France has a lot riding on a smooth roll out of China’s EPRs. The country is home to Areva SA (AREVA), which developed the next-generation reactor, and utility Electricite de France SA, which oversees the project. The two companies, controlled by the French state, need a safe, trouble-free debut in China to ensure a future for their biggest new product in a generation. And French authorities have not hidden their concerns.

And are not happy...

“Unfortunately, collaboration isn’t at a level we would wish it to be” with China, Jamet said. “One of the explanations for the difficulties in our relations is that the Chinese safety authorities lack means. They are overwhelmed.”




“the state of conservation” of large components like pumps and steam generators at Taishan “was not at an adequate level” and was “far” from the standards of the two other EPR plants,

China is rushing...

Some 28 reactors of various models are currently under construction in China. That’s more building than any other nation on the planet, and the country hasn’t reported a serious nuclear accident in the 22 years it has operated nuclear plants for commercial use.


“If the current momentum of development continues, if too many nuclear power projects are started too quickly, it could jeopardize the healthy, long-term development of nuclear power,” Fan Bi, a deputy director at the State Council Research Office, wrote in an article for Outlook Magazine, published by the official Xinhua news agency, two months before the Fukushima disaster.


China General, the country’s biggest atomic operator is forging ahead with EDF. It will begin critical tests on the most advanced of the 1,650-megawatt Taishan EPRs before start-up in 2015

But the Chinese nuclear regulator is a "total black box"

The Chinese regulator’s website contains relatively little information about safety issues. The most recent post on Taishan is a 2009 report on the start of cement work at the reactor referring to “problems left over from early-stage construction.” It said all current work was up to standards, without elaborating. In total just nine posts on the website mention Taishan, and many are blank apart from the title.

Critics of China’s nuclear safety regime, including Albert Lai, chairman of The Professional Commons, a Hong Kong think tank, says that lack of information risks eroding confidence in safety controls in what’s set to be a 14-fold increase of atomic capacity by 2030.

“The workings of China’s atomic safety authority are a ‘‘total black box,’’ said Lai. ‘‘China has no transparency whatsoever."

And even the Chinese are nervous...

And in a rare public comment about safety concerns, China’s own State Council Research Office three years ago warned that the development of the country’s power plants may be accelerating too quickly.

We are sure this will all end well...


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Sun, 06/22/2014 - 11:34 | 4882730 Carpenter1
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China seems to be in an awful hurry to do alot of things these days. 

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 11:56 | 4882781 mjcOH1
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"When the music stops, in terms of liquidity, things will be complicated. But as long as the music is playing, you've got to get up and dance." - Chuck Prince

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:20 | 4882845 sushi
sushi's picture

China could always engage TEPCO as an outside consultant.

TEPCO has lots of experience with these isses.


Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:32 | 4882883 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

The EPR has a design maximum core damage frequency of 6.1 × 10?7 per plant per year.  See somebody wrote that so we are all safe.

(The superscipt is -7 not ?7) Either that or my computer knows something I don't.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:55 | 4882946 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

Nuclear power is a disfunctional family.  On the good days, everyone gets cheap power.  On the really bad days they wake up and kill everyone. 

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:12 | 4882988 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

It all depends on who designs the plant.

The French reactors are all pretty much bullet proof.

Apparently the Chinese hired Mr. Burns.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:49 | 4883130 Joebloinvestor
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The French would not admit to an accident if they had one.

Any seismic activity and their record will go to hell.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 14:49 | 4883283 macholatte
macholatte's picture



Did Harry Reid cut a deal so the Chinese will be storing the nuclear waste at the Bundy Ranch in Nevada?


Sun, 06/22/2014 - 15:00 | 4883316 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

I think we should cut a deal to shove it all up his ass for safe keeping!

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 15:52 | 4883452 eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

Seismic activity from fracking?


Sun, 06/22/2014 - 16:15 | 4883503 Matt
Matt's picture

Three Gorges Dam, the amount of water is so massive it presses down the plate and causes earthquakes.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 18:53 | 4883908 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

I've looked fairly closely at their standard cookie cutter design.The whole plant is a seriously armored self-contained dome shaped unit.

Unless some event flips the damned thing over, it isn't going to breach.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:05 | 4882974 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

-7.... It is a probability...

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 10:17 | 4885392 detached.amusement
detached.amusement's picture

thankfully, many probabilities are exceedingly small ;)

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:05 | 4882795 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Always simmering in the background among Chinese leadership is the spector of 1.351 billion angry Chinese "citizens". Plenty of incentive to move things along regardless of the actual state of readiness. Plus the air pollution in the cities ain't getting better on its own.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:58 | 4883148 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

Remember that is the issue the 1.3 billion chinese in the background.  Remember all the revolutions china had?  They know that if they don't placate them, then they will be the ones the billion go after.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 14:51 | 4883291 hobopants
hobopants's picture

Well a couple of meltdowns would certainly help to curtail that population problem.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:10 | 4882825 swmnguy
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The Chinese realize that having piles of US dollar instruments is like cornering the market in egg salad and popsicles on a hot day...when you don't have any ice.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:14 | 4882996 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

Yup, which explains the spending potlach.

Get the damned FRNs into something tangible, even if it is in the form of empty houses and big fucking reactors.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:01 | 4882962 stoneworker
stoneworker's picture

I think they know that the dollar is going to collapse(they probably even know exactly when) so they are spending and borrowing as much as they can, so when the dollar collapses they can compensate the loss in value of their US treasuries by at least having built some skyscrapers and other infrastructure through debt that will be greatly lowered through inflation. 

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:15 | 4882999 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture


Sun, 06/22/2014 - 15:02 | 4883326 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Powerful is not a moniker you want on a nuclear power plant.  The danger of an accident goes up linearly with the power.  Small, modular 100 MW reactors are way, way safer than 1000 MW rectors. At the same time it is crazy to even contemplate building any reactor other than an inherently safe HTGR pebble bed reactor. 


Sun, 06/22/2014 - 17:51 | 4883742 Reptil
Reptil's picture

eehm smaller containment equals less safety
the whole reason they started building mega plants, is because they couldn't build a small containment that actually worked.
ask the germans what happened to their pebblebed reactor.
another issue is that small modulars are hard to keep an eye on (by the NRC, or the public)
and the industry just can't be trusted.
sell your stock dude, it ain't happening.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 22:05 | 4884337 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Au contraire Reptil. The Navy operates a large number of 100 MW plants with a remarkable safety record.  Modularity and standardization means better automatic control systems and detecton of potential flaws.  Small cores do not melt easily and pebble beds mean that the reactor doesn't need to be torn apart two years to refuel.  Gas reactors will become a reality when governments require fail-safe systems. Let us hope that smarter heads will prevail.


Mon, 06/23/2014 - 01:22 | 4884705 mrpxsytin
mrpxsytin's picture

China prudently realises that all forms of money (fiat, gold, seashells etc.) are ultimately backed by energy. If China can pull this off then they win this round of the game. It will pave the way for reserve currency status. 

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 06:45 | 4884882 jonytk
jonytk's picture

bitcoin my friend ;) powered by energy, they cannot stand to burn so much carbon, they will get intoxicated.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 11:37 | 4882743 screw face
screw face's picture


Sun, 06/22/2014 - 11:37 | 4882744 MountainsRoam
MountainsRoam's picture

If man survives to the end of this century it will be a miracle haha unless we spread our seed into space, and destroy the glaxay also..

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:23 | 4882802 Cognitive Dissonance
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"Keep that Twinkie between your legs and space will be just fine." - Visiting space alien.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:09 | 4882822 Aussiekiwi
Aussiekiwi's picture

I'm doing all I can but I'm only one man!

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:23 | 4882860 old naughty
old naughty's picture

Rush to build for last few decades houses for no men;

Rush to build for next few dacades nuclear generations

for more no men; And then, rush to build stargates ?

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:28 | 4882875 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

At least the Chinese are building.  All our money goes into knocking things down around the world.  And its usually buildings on top of women and children.  And it dont matter if they are white, red, brown, or black.  Just ask those dead kids and their moms in East Ukraine who got their apts shelled courtesy of the guys who will now sign the sell your soul trade agreement with the west.  Western style oligarch democracy getting rammed down people's throats.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 22:31 | 4884393 old naughty
old naughty's picture

While I believe NO ONE should control over or cut short other's life...And surly that would be "balanced" out in the "middle" layer...

But I also believe no one should simply build and build and build whatever on this lower layer of ours simply to sustain a make-believe system (of control, mind you); that too would be "balanced" out, imho.

Hence, rush to build, for build's sake, is equivalent to change, for change sake...

Having said all that, we;re about to face major changes, no?


What the hell we come to Earth for?

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 01:25 | 4884710 mrpxsytin
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They're not building to sustain the make-believe system. They're building a new make-believe system and rendering the American model obsolete. 

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:31 | 4882882 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

True dat!

I've been busy spreading my seed on Uranus.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 11:43 | 4882757 Australian Economist
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Wi Tu Glow

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 11:49 | 4882769 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Ho Li Fukushima

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:08 | 4882820 Aussiekiwi
Aussiekiwi's picture

just never gets could also have added, If you like your radiation you can keep your radiation.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 16:32 | 4883547 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

...and of course this old classic:

Bang Dae Glo

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 11:43 | 4882759 Reaper
Reaper's picture

In France, the village idiot rose to the top. In China, the party would not allow that, they hope. We all are sure that the best and brightest are in charge at all levels of government in China and France. We sleep well because we trust.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 11:48 | 4882767 falak pema
falak pema's picture

its part of the global disease; in the US you have Bernanke and Yellen, both Summa Cum laude from ivy league. 

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 11:44 | 4882760 laomei
laomei's picture

Of course, a bunch of idiots are going to cry about Japan as if it somehow matters.  Remember, Japan was burning a shitty US design which was never safe, never really updated and shoud have been taken down years ago.  This is entirely different and China has an amazing track record when it comes to nuclear.  This is a deal done with CNNC, and speaking as someone with high-level inside contacts within that organization, safety is not something ignored.  These are projects which have been planned for the better part of a decade.  What you are seeing here is US-based propaganda aimed at China in an attempt to lighten the gravity of the situation and take away from the fact that while the US continues to spiral deeper into shit, China continues to move forward.


The power plants going up in China are top of the line and China is busy signing deals to sell domesticated designs around the world.  Furthermore, there is serious research towards fusion and thorium for further stage development.  Just because there are a certain number of planned reactors does not mean that the reactor types are set in stone, that's free to change as technology allows.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 11:52 | 4882778 valley chick
valley chick's picture

You mean it will last longer than their toasters?

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:07 | 4882816 Aussiekiwi
Aussiekiwi's picture

Toasters come with a guarantee.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:23 | 4882855 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture


If it BREAKS, we guarantee that we'll build you another one.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:33 | 4882888 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

The Pacific sealife can't take much more abuse.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:33 | 4882889 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

You dont have to buy it lol.  Get yourself a German brand toaster online. Besides the Chinese have to keep people employed, if that toaster lasted forever what would that mean to their assembly lines lol.  As far as breaking look up USA nuclear accidents.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:55 | 4882941 ChiangMai
ChiangMai's picture

The toasters are for the brain-dead USA Walmart shoppers who think they're getting a deal.

China gets to sell something to these morons every six months rather than only once every ten years.

China's military equipment, incidentally, also isn't designed and manufactured for USA Walmart shoppers.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:07 | 4882978 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

China is going to eat the US and the UK for lunch.

What most "Made In China" idiots don't comment on is its the direction of those particular CEO's that say "Give me x product at n cost". The Chinese just comply with the orders given. So, if you're pissed at something made in china breaking, blame the cheapskate fuckbags that decided to cheap out on the production line.

Hell, you have things that can be made well in China, like all of fucking Apple's iDevices - but they pay the cost to do that, instead of cheapskating their way out of it.

In reference to the reactors, are we forgetting that this nation built the largest fucking dam in the world, and it is currently operating without falling apart? That is a huge achievement for something that can be seen from ORBIT.

But no, its all "FUCK YEAH 'MERICA" around here, because the nation is full of idiots.


Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:38 | 4883098 laomei
laomei's picture

Someone fucking gets it it seems.  Exposure to Chinese products is controlled by those who import and sell them.  Sure, it's "made in china garbage", because that's what you're paying for... well, not you, the importers.  Companies who make nothing and increasingly design nothing, they just put in an order and slap their sticker on it, demand absurdly low prices, and then jack up the price 10-fold to sell to idiots.  Idiots who then cry about it being crap... but the middlemen soak up that profit and pat themselves on the backs for being ever so smart.  Buy your shit direct and suddenly, those problems vanish, and it's FAR cheaper.  I bought an espresso machine which in the US has been cheapened and tends to fall apart after about a year.  US price: $500.  My price: $80. FoB price for 100+ units ~$40.  Difference is, mine works great and has quality parts the factory reserves for orders which are not zero-margin.  


Here's the future: China will get the confidence to make some beachheads into the US markets, selling more and more directly to consumers, cutting out the middlemen and then you'll see those "great american brands" crash and die as they cannot compete. 

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 16:41 | 4883561 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


Exposure to Chinese products is controlled by those who import and sell them.  Sure, it's "made in china garbage", because that's what you're paying for... well, not you, the importers.

True that. Every item of "cheap Chinese crap" that Americans buy was designed by and built to the specifications of the American label-slapping corporations that imported it.

The Chinese will build quality for those who are willing to pay for quality.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 19:00 | 4883936 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

I wouldn't bring up the three gorges dam to try and make that point...

Before the damn was built American engineers told the Chinese they were doing it wrong and they were going to have huge silt problems (among other things).

Of course, the arrogant chinks new better, and of course... they were wrong.

The consequences for being similarly arrogant and wrong with engineering is just a little bit more severe for uranium than for silt.

It's not that the Chinese aren't capable of doing good engineering and construction, the simple fact is theydon't engineer or build well... for whatever reason. Only magic negros get points just for capacity.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 22:26 | 4884382 merchantratereview
merchantratereview's picture

chines peasants ASSEMBLE the iphone, not build it

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 11:56 | 4882786 Lin S
Lin S's picture

Yes yes, anyone pointing to Japan is an "idiot."  The same goes for anyone making any reference to regional seismic activity, Chinese government corruption, buildings and bridges that randomly collapse in the PRC, etc.

Please, school us idiots some more on how China is the country of the future.  We're all ears.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:19 | 4882838 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

"We're all ears."

Radiation got to you already, huh?

Edit: I agree with your point. No one in power seems to have it in them to have the best interests of the people, or indeed the planet, to be allowed to build these things. The folks that plan them plan on them being taken down at a certain point and THAT fails to happen when that day arrives. They do not take into consideration how short sighted and desperate we can become when they "plan." Never mind the tendency to cut costs as you go because you underestimated what the costs were going to be in the first place. We truly could go on and on. Not a China problem, a humanity problem.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:48 | 4882930 laomei
laomei's picture

Randomly collapse? Not sure what the hell you're talking about.  Buildings.. the only buildings that have collapsed were built by private developers who cheated on materials.  Or perhaps you are talking about those that collapsed in an earthquake which no building standard would have withstood and had been extensively modified on an ad hoc basis by idiots who took out load bearing walls.  Bridges... sure, if you overload a bridge designed for 20t with a convoy of 100+ ton trucks eventually something is gonna give regardless of who built it.  80% of trucks in China get overloaded, and the roads bear witness to it. CNNC is state-owned state-run, they have their own construction corps, they handle nuclear weapons development and manufacture, their leader is a key official in the party and to put it quite bluntly, China doesn't fuck around when it comes to nuclear.  

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:05 | 4882811 Aussiekiwi
Aussiekiwi's picture

' safety is not something ignored.  These are projects which have been planned for the better part of a decade.'

No safety won't be ignored, it won't get even that far.

By the time all the contractors have cut the quality and quantity of rebar and replaced most of the concrete in the reactor containment with sand in order to make more profit, I am sure everything will just be perfect 10 years down the track.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:25 | 4882862 sushi
sushi's picture

Does seem a little strange to see the media raising concerns over Chinese reactor safety as a future imponderable while at the same time totally ignoring the Fukushima meltdown as a present reality.

A reality for not just Japan but also the west coast of North America and anyone depended on Pacific ocean food stocks.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:00 | 4882960 ObamaDepression
ObamaDepression's picture

Its the French not the media that are concerned. Areva is a "national champion" company.

They don't want their design associated with meltdown caused due to shoddy construction and corruption.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 17:57 | 4883756 Reptil
Reptil's picture

mwoah... they don't seem too concerned about these issues. Areva and EDT are not the regulators of course, but you're right they're two hands on one belly.
France has an issue with aging powerplants, irresponsible (privatised) industry management, and contamination.
If you want to buy land there, bring a Geiger counter.
both documentaries contain unique material and are worth watching, regardless if you understand french (mine's a little rusty ;-) )

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:17 | 4883004 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

US designs are not optimized for safe power. They are optimized for weapons-grade Plutonium production.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 17:59 | 4883759 SameAsItEverWas
SameAsItEverWas's picture

US designs are not optimized for safe power. They are optimized for weapons-grade Plutonium production.

Bull.  Do you even know what happens if there's more than 7% Pu-240?  Spontaneous fission or "fizzle."

The only way to get WGP out of LWRs running 4% U-235 and 3-yr fuel cycle would require refueling outages at least three times a year instead of just once a year.

It's possible to make a useable weapon with 20% Pu-240 like what's being piled and was supposed to go to YMP, but it's not easy to avoid fizzle.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 18:56 | 4883922 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture


Yes, the reaction is poisoned if too much plutonium is produced. Nevertheless, the standard design for US reactors was chosen to produce Pu as a byproduct.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 14:07 | 4883167 Rough-Trader
Rough-Trader's picture

I hate it when I buy something from a shop and I have got no choice but to buy Chinese made...

  It's guaranteed to last LESS then one year...however, if it's built in Germany or Japan, the products are much better.

I would not expect Chinese reactors to be any better than their crappy household products.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 15:35 | 4883415 algol_dog
algol_dog's picture

Within 50 years the whole world will be running on nuclear power. China knows it, and will take the lead. As Rome (west) burns, China continues their accent and eventual world dominance. Talk all you want about corruption and greed in China, but it was no different at the turn of the last century in America, as it rose to world dominance. The Mongols conquered the world before and they will do it again. 

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 18:39 | 4883865 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Mongols aren't Chinese, chum.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 15:37 | 4883416 algol_dog
algol_dog's picture


Sun, 06/22/2014 - 18:09 | 4883776 pacrim888
pacrim888's picture

Lao Mei,
I am sorry but you seem to have very little clue of Real China. Your comments always relate to idealized China so they may be sarcastic. Corruption is everywhere and I would bet that many safety equipments have been accepted below par thru bribing the Safety Agency inspectors.

Seen it all in China.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 22:21 | 4884373 merchantratereview
merchantratereview's picture

make lao mei lose face. he cry and make mistake building plant. then we are all fucked. oh wait, we're already fucked.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 00:30 | 4884640 Menoetius
Menoetius's picture

The power plants going up in China are top of the line and China is busy signing deals to sell domesticated designs around the world. 


Yeah. Right. Top-of-the-line like Chinese bullet trains. The Philippines would apparently disagree, but then again they weren't too bright when they contracted with China for essential power plants.

An excerpt from the artcle - "Power reserves for the Luzon grid may end up in the worrisome single digit at peak if the American owners of a brand new power plant made in China are forced to shut it down for repairs. The newest major power plant to go on line, the 650-MW plant had been delivering only about half its rated capacity since it was switched on."

"The American owners recently got American technicians to check it out and they found out the Chinese-made plant had inherent defects. It was not clear from reports what exactly was causing the power plant to sub-perform, but the story has it that the Chinese parts used didn’t meet specifications."


"It is not unusual to hear of badly made Chinese products but one wonders how this has been allowed to happen in a power plant of this size with the requisite technical project consultants."

And if domestic Chinese products are top-of-the-line I find it peculiar when I'm in China grocery shopping with Chinese friends that they always check the label to see whether the consumable is made in China. They'll buy Taiwan and Hong Kong made products, but not domestic Chinese consumables, if they can help it that is. As for medicine or luxury goods, they never buy those in China but instead fly to Hong Kong where they have greater trust in the quality and authenticity of the products.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 01:29 | 4884712 mrpxsytin
mrpxsytin's picture

You tell em! Let the feeble Americans rot in darkness. That seems to actually be what they want. I'm really looking forward to seeing these reactors come online to power more innovation and trade between China and Australia. 

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 11:47 | 4882763 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Proof of madness.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 11:47 | 4882764 saltedGold
saltedGold's picture

I said this before in an older article comment. The problem with building nuke power plants in China, Japan, etc, is they see how it's done and then go off on their own to build more. So GE or some other company will do the site survey, make sure everything is perfect and they say, "this is a good place to build the plant." After a plant or two is built, they don't need anyone to show them how it's done and start building plants wherever they feel like it. Bad locations, poor quality control, secretive government...this will not end well.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:01 | 4882799 Aussiekiwi
Aussiekiwi's picture

well, yeah, you don't want to use prime agricultural land to build your power plant on, that would be stupid, use old mines and reclaimed swamps.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:38 | 4882900 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

Oh like we are building them in stellar places in the USA.  How about that San Onofre nuclear plant in Cali on a major fault zone and a few other to boot including one in San Luis Obispo.  Heard there were some problems at one in Nebraska when the Mississipi flooded a few months back.  The USA govt made sure there was a news lockdown.  Apparently place got flooded just like Fukushima did, and it happened in the middle of the USA, no tsunami required, dang who would of thought a river ever floods that much, like one in a hundred years flood, hahaha.  Just like the Japs they built it for that once in fifty year flood, smart thinking.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:03 | 4882968 ObamaDepression
ObamaDepression's picture

You realize the San Onofre plant has been shut down right?...and is on a rocky cliff well above sea level not on a sandy beach.

And the Fuku plant survived an earthquake far worse than anything on the CA coast has ever had.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:20 | 4883020 laomei
laomei's picture

The Fuku plant was built by americans, just like wtc7, and a laundry list of structures that oops, just failed.  But let's ignore those and pretend that propaganda mouthpieces who print word for word whatever the CIA tells them to have any credibility or legitimacy left.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 15:23 | 4883379 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Wrong on San Onofre above.

It is totally on the beach....

where do you think it used to get it's cooling water from?


Do an image search. It has been shut down.....for now...

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 22:17 | 4884365 merchantratereview
merchantratereview's picture

12 bot chinamen giving green arrow is not agrrement, just botshit

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:52 | 4883134 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

Wow.....I was toatally unaware Fukushima "survived"...did I miss something?

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 16:48 | 4883574 IronForge
IronForge's picture

Yes.  You may consider it as one Event, others may have distinguished the Cascading Causes and Effects of Milestones that made up the overall Event.  ^_^ Keep in mind that the Quake of that magnitude is considered a "once in a 900-1000 year event".

Though the Plants "survived" the Initial Quake as they scrammed shut, the Ground was lowered on some parts in the vicinity, making Sea Walls (far more) ineffective to the Tsunami (than planned).   

The Waves wiped out the backup diesel generator(s) located topside (GE/TEPCO dumbasses involved in design here) - needed to power the cooling mechanisms attending to the Reactors and Spent Fuel Pools.

Add Human Error in keeping track of the "final safety device" in the panic, and more dumbasses who tried to "Truck" instead of "Airlift"(via Helicopter) an Emergency Generator (again, dumbasses didn't consider a tertiary redudancy) to the Site pretty much lead up to the Explosions and the Meltdown.

Fortunately, quarrantined sections are gradually being reclaimed.  Ironically, Professional Competency and Bureaucratic "Smugness"(sorry, can't think of a more appropriate term - figure it does a better job than "Arrogance") has led to the utter lack of preparation for handling Meltdowns and other Catastrophic Mishaps.

I say some people should be fired, tried, and incarcerated - even in the face of a extremely rare Disaster of that magnitude. 

Riding on Nuke Subs for my Midshipman Training Cruises, I can testify that the Nukes NEVER let up on Training Drills.  Per one of my Instructors, "Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance".

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 17:10 | 4883614 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

when China demonstrates that they have a group that's equivalent to Naval Reactors, I'll trust their ability to roll nuke plants out in this fashion... until then, I don't

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 18:13 | 4883762 Reptil
Reptil's picture

No it did not survive the earthquake. The meltdowns (melt-throughs) started right after it hit.
Daiichi and Daini were not the only plants in big trouble after the earthquake, others had to do an emergency shutdown (which were successful)
Files and documentation are on Enenews and Enformable.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 15:04 | 4883311 ThirteenthFloor
ThirteenthFloor's picture

Fukishima, like all Fission plants in Japan were contracted  built by GE and Americans.  The specifications called for a water pump backup generator to be 100 ft higher from sea-level than installed, but GE decided to get cheap on the power cables and labor so the backup generator was 100 ft too close to sea level and was flooded and destroyed in the tidal wave. 

Unlike BP after the Gulf Oil Rig fiasco, GE paid nothing, nor did anything to assist in Fukishima disaster.  Imholt called for another favor in DC, and DC obilgied.

Fukishinma is proof the 'green policy' is 100% bogus and money can buy any favor.

China is working on Fusion with H3 which waste product I understand is non-radioactive pure clean water.  Although when humans are involved they can F'k up anything.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 15:52 | 4883453 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You are correct, nukes and "for profit" are a horrible mix...

As for the Chinese and fusion, hate to break it to you but that is not what is going on....

Fission is child's play compared to fusion...

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 18:16 | 4883798 Reptil
Reptil's picture

check Polywell: an improved, functioning version of the "Fusor"
courtesy of the US Navy :-)

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 18:50 | 4883879 BigJim
BigJim's picture

I remember reading about Fusion as a kid in the '70s. Ever since then it has always been 'about ten years away from becoming commercially useful'... and I suspect, always will be.

Meanwhile, lots of physicists get research grants and corporations get to build enormously expensive playgrounds for them. It's another fucking boondoggle, a la AGW.


Sun, 06/22/2014 - 21:02 | 4884219 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Dense Plasma Focus looks promising...

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 19:21 | 4883975 PeakOil
PeakOil's picture

Interesting video. Thanks.

Edit: hear ya BigJim - many false starts, if not fraud. Usable commercial fusion is a difficult proposition. Nonetheless it doesn't hurt to try and who knows, given enough $$, perspiration and persistance, breakthroughs could happen. Sure as hell won't if we don't try.


Sun, 06/22/2014 - 11:49 | 4882770 Lin S
Lin S's picture

Does this mean that when it all goes sideways we'll see new levels of Chinese colonization of immigration to the U.S.?

(a rhetorical question...)

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:39 | 4882905 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

No it means we'll see new levels of Cesium and Strontium in the biosphere.

You didn't think all the crap from Fukushima stayed in Japan? Well, the crap from this won't stay in China.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:19 | 4883013 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

I'd prefer chinese immigration to the current load of central American welfare wretches.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 15:07 | 4883339 ThirteenthFloor
ThirteenthFloor's picture

I think US will look something like Blade Runner, and China will be most likely the next Empire, since they will have the highest energy-flux density per capita. Eventually the immigration will stop, and those with enough PMs will live off world.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 15:40 | 4883427 ThirteenthFloor
ThirteenthFloor's picture

No need to immigrate here they will own it.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 11:50 | 4882771 joego1
joego1's picture

It's a good thing that China is in a area where no earthquakes, floods or disasters happen otherwise we could have a major accident in the worlds future. Just think of all the bombs they will have to make with the waste material.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 11:50 | 4882773 Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

From what I hear about environmental pollution in China, a massive dose of radiation will probably improve things.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 11:59 | 4882796 Aussiekiwi
Aussiekiwi's picture

might produce giant rats to eat up all the environmental pollution, plus,plus.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 11:51 | 4882777 Da Yooper
Da Yooper's picture

Whats the problem ?


If something goes wrong they can afford to loose a few million people or so

They could call it Chinese urban renewal

They dont seem to have a problem with air they can chew whats a little radiation leaking from a reactor 


Sun, 06/22/2014 - 11:56 | 4882790 I am Jobe
I am Jobe's picture

Chinese will hire Amerikans to clean up for payment of their bonds. Includes women for pleasure before radiation takes hold then who fucking cares. How is the Hanford cleanup coming along in Eastern Washington?

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:36 | 4882898 griffey247
griffey247's picture

Lol okay cocksucker.... Go fuck yourself you piece of shit..... 


"I am Jobe" .... More like " I am a Joke"


Fuck You

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:22 | 4883023 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

Hanford is still an issue because of poor planning and luddites.

All of that strontium-90 causing liquid waste to boil should have been refined out, and used for small reactors. SR-90 reactors are dead safe, and can be run unattended.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 16:02 | 4883476 I Write Code
I Write Code's picture

You sound like you know what you're talking about and "strontium reactors are dead safe" sounds interesting, but what does that mean, that you can't make it fission in explosive chain-reactions, or that you can sprinkle it on your breakfast cereal?  Is there some cycle that can produce SR-90 at a profit and fuel such reactors?  Asking you is so much easier than Googling ... and actually, a little brief Googling doesn't turn up much.


Sun, 06/22/2014 - 19:04 | 4883947 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

Sr-90 has a max temp of 500C when operating as reactor fuel. The radiation byproduct is simply beta radiation ( electrons ).

As long as the fuel is contained ( easily done at those temps with iridium cladding ), fuel handling can be done with a pair of asbestos gloves.

Toshiba wanted to use the tech for a nuclear battery for a town in the Alaska bush, but that plan got scotched when the NRC demanded they had to put in a building for a full NRC monitoring office staff ( and pay them! ) on a buried reactor that was designed to run automatically and almost completely unmanned for 45 years.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 11:56 | 4882788 goldhedge
goldhedge's picture

CCP better hope those prevailing winds blow east

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 11:56 | 4882789 goldhedge
goldhedge's picture

CCP better hope those prevailing winds blow east

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:11 | 4882813 Wild Theories
Wild Theories's picture

China do have a serious pollution problem that's been contributed to by too many coal-burning plants, if you are going to meet the power needs of a country that size and cut pollution at the same time, nuclear power probably have to be in the mix somewhere. 


I'm no a technical expert, but I have read somewhere the Chinese plants are supposedly going to be thorium based reactors, which are purportedly much safer than the mainstay of current models in operation worldwide. Whether this is going to be the model for all of their new nuclear plants or just some, I don't know.

Maybe someone with a bit more technical knowledge who's been watching this space can enlighten us.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:24 | 4882830 potato
potato's picture

Currently, the largest nuclear reactor is in Japan with 8,212 MW output. That is about 45% of the peak electric power capacity of the Three Gorges Dam (18 GW ) or 4 Hoover Dams. The average american house uses 900 kWh per month, an average of 1.25 kWh per hour. That is enough to power 6.5 million houses.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:13 | 4882995 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture


Read the history of the Molten Salt Reactor at Oak Ridge Laboratory.  Our gov't invented this technology and had a working model that ran for 20,000 consecutive hoursin the 60's.  Yet,  they waste our money on windmills and solar panels that have a useful life of maybe 20 years or a little longer.  Type 'abandoned wind turbines' in your search engine and look at what the progressive state of kalifornia has done to its taxpayers since '85.  Better yet check out the 'Energy From Thorium" website and educate yourself 

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:30 | 4883059 samsara
samsara's picture

Any ideas on the comparable costs and safety issues of dismantling a wind turbine vs a Nuc plant?

Which abandon structure would you like to live next to?

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:08 | 4882821 thestarl
thestarl's picture

These Chinese pricks going full fucking retard to hell.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:11 | 4882826 Hubbs
Hubbs's picture

When I first glanced at the picture, I thought that the red zones were an overlay of Japan (Fukishima) until I got my readers. Nevertheless, fiirst impressions are sometimes the most prophetic.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:12 | 4882828 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Where are those morons claiming the liquid salt thorium based reactors will rush to the rescue...

This is a classic example of biting off more than you can chew...

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:15 | 4882837 agent default
agent default's picture

Is there any real reason why thorium is not viable or better than existing Uranium reactors? I am just asking I am not  an expert on the subject.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:25 | 4882865 potato
potato's picture

It's like elevator boys in the early 1900s protesting the development of the *gasp* automatic elevator. The established power providers are Luddites in this regard.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:06 | 4882977 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

It is nothing like that at all....

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:24 | 4883030 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

It is everything like that, you stupid hippie.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:35 | 4882897 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Well, maybe once we build one we can address that question...

Issues such as proliferation of fissile material and genration of radioactive waste are still front and center. There are also many technical isses that still have to be addressed....

Yes, you can build a bomb with U-233.... BFD, if the yield is 40% of a Pu based device...

Last I checked there were ~400 reactors in the world, most built over a period of 30 years. And most of them beyond their "sell by date". You would need roughly ~3000 to replace fossil fuel generated electricity. Do the math....

When I was younger, I was a big fan of nukes, I was wrong...

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:53 | 4882931 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

They still produce fission products, and we don't have an effective policy to deal with that stuff worldwide.

Plus, the paper designs for these things always have a few boxes labelled "a miracle happens here" -- the text reads something like "a sparge of fluorine", but that's just a convenient piece of propaganda. Put some fluorine in your bong, Thorium-head, and 'sparge' it, and let me know how it works out for ya...

Before Fukushima, I had no idea that all these things were operating so close to the edge. It was a real epipany to see unit 3 there blowing up. Now I know that there is no such animal as 'cold shutdown'.

this wasn't aimed at flakmeister, it is for the Thorium Brigade ... just to clarify the intent of this remark

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:24 | 4883037 Cruel Aid
Cruel Aid's picture

Risk reward. Is is true that radiation levels on the California coast are rising as a result of Fukishima?

If so what happens if a few more of these rush chinese plants go code red in the coming decades.

Climate change sounds more manageable, if we are even affecting its natural change.

The air seems pretty clean vs decades ago and coal is still #1 here. I suspect China is not applying the same coal scrubbing tech that we are. They just won't listen to the world. They are rushing to building more coal plants as well.

Btw Tx just crossed over and gets half its energy from windmills. Yea birds die, better than the nuke clean up team and anybody downwind/stream. And I love the change in policy to allow endangered bird deaths. Not that endangered anymore.

Not a fan of nuke either, till there is proof of safety.


Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:28 | 4883049 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

U-233 requires over 200 pounds of material to make a bomb, and the stuff gives off enough hard gamma to ruin any containing bomb in short order. A bomb big enough to implode 200 pounds of metal would be about the size of a small truck, dumbass.

Siphoning off the U-233 from a thorium reactor also completely shuts the reactor down. Someone might actually notice this.

So the "Thorium reactors can be used for bomb production" argument is just a load of luddite hippie non-sense.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 14:31 | 4883234 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Operation Tea Pot MET mean anything to you?

Clearly not...

I'll pretty sure that you could fit your truck in any reasonable sea going vessel....

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 19:10 | 4883969 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

The gamma radiation will kill your ass quickly, and people around you will start slowly falling over. And it's huge.

Not exactly a stealth bomb. There is a reason no one has been crazy enough to try to make one.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 14:36 | 4883245 soontobeblocked
soontobeblocked's picture

5 paragraphs later and you've still failed to answer the question that was asked.  Bravo strawman. 

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 15:18 | 4883367 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Reading comprehension was never your strong suit, eh?

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:17 | 4883006 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

Neither is Flakmeister.  He'd rather maintain the status quo and put our country in the same dire straits that Spain and Germany, for example, have done to their citizens to placate the desires of the marxist greens.   

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:24 | 4883038 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Yeah, its because of me that there is no working reactor let alone design...


BTW, the fossil fuel interests are taking care of that "dire straits" thing all by themselves...

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:30 | 4883060 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

There is no working design because any serious design work can't get funding because of stupid little hippies like you.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 15:16 | 4883363 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Let me guess, you think the state should pony up the billions for it? And provide the loan guarentees when/if they become feasible...

If fucking XOM or GE thought they were the future, the required research would be a drop in their respective buckets... That should be telling you something...

Any number of corporations have the financial resources to do it...

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 19:13 | 4883977 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

Nope. I would be satislied with the NRC not fucking with serious privately funded developement simple because "Oh Noes! The Nuclear is Eeeebil!"

The last attempt at putting a new small reactor in Alaska was deliberately scotched by a bunch of obstructionists envirotards at the NRC.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 14:33 | 4883236 soontobeblocked
soontobeblocked's picture

"Is there any real reason why thorium is not viable or better than existing Uranium reactors?"

Absolutely: because Flakmeister said so.  Just ask him/her/it.  No substantion required.  Only ad hominems.  Par for his/her/its course.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 15:17 | 4883352 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

When we are capable of building a commercial LFTR maybe then we will know...

And if you cannot figure out what that implies.....

Now go back to sleep and leave the heavy lifting to those that can...

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 19:14 | 4883985 7.62x54r
7.62x54r's picture

Fuck off hippie.

If you ever had the final say, we would be still in caves picking fleas off of each other.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 23:01 | 4884482 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Outstanding claims require outstanding evidence and you have provided none...

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:13 | 4882834 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

The real question is why aren't those retreads green-piece and da see-air-aclub shoving their shit down China's throat??


Right.  Exactly.  Because China would shoot them dead on sight.


Love how these groups really stand up for what they believe in.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:15 | 4882835 Space Animatoltipap
Space Animatoltipap's picture

Anyone, is out of the air?

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:20 | 4882844 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture


The plants are ALL on the Pacific coast.

I have nothing against the Chinese wanting to become advanced and stuff, but HOLY HELL, boys, why in God's name are you building NUKE PLANTS on the COAST? Three Mile Island wasn't enough. Hanford wasn't enough Chernoybl wasn't enough. Fukushima wasn't enough. It's fracking INSANITY.

IF humanity survives this folly, in 10,000 years or 100,000 years, they will STILL be trying to figure out how to keep all the radioactive spent fuel from killing everyone on the planet. They will STILL be pouring concrete over Chernoybl. They will STILL be trying to clean up Hanford. They will STILL be trying to freeze the ice at Fukushima. AND; they will CURSE this current generation of insane humans, and HATE the fact that they are descended from them.

WHAT THE HELL? EVERYONE ELSE DOES IT! BUILD those plants, you insane mother frackers!

One HELL of a way to boil water!

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:24 | 4883032 samsara
samsara's picture

They know we have reached Peak Oil daily production and they are scrambling with alternatives.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 14:55 | 4883299 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

They all know something is indeed what all of this feels like samsara. Something hit the fan and there is much scrambling, going off script, bad planning, abandoned planning, etc. That explanation would cover all of this pretty well.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 16:51 | 4883579 mt paul
mt paul's picture

gas 4.11 $ per gal, today

north of the alaskan range

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 14:51 | 4883275 soontobeblocked
soontobeblocked's picture

"The plants are ALL on the Pacific coast."

To be fair, that density map also coincides with the industry map and the population trend map.  I've been to the interior and it is a vast wilderness.  No need for nuclear reactors in the middle of Antarctica either.

Look at that map.  Even the population that is further inland is mostly agrarian (and migrating to the east).

and here is the more relevant map.  quite the coinkidink, eh?

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 00:04 | 4884609 Peanut Butter E...
Peanut Butter Engineer's picture

This is their only way to reduce air pollution from coal burning energy, everyone is complaining that china has highest pollution in the world and this is their answer to the world's complain.

Which do you prefer china full of smogs and complain about their air condition or china full of nuclear energy potentially dangerous but will make sure their air is cleaner than before.

You can't have it both ways, unless your a hypocrite who complains everything china does.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:34 | 4882894 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

Looks like the Weeggers and Tibetans are pretty safe all the way on the Western edge far away from the nukular areas.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:39 | 4882909 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Bullish for the subterraean refrigerated ice wall industry (a/k/a SRIWI).

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 16:52 | 4883581 mt paul
mt paul's picture


brings good things to life ...

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 12:54 | 4882945 LostandFound
LostandFound's picture

You cannot have the words 'Chinese' 'Builds' and 'Safety' in the same paragraph, let me tell you with first hand experience that safety isnt just near the top of the agenda but it doesnt even fucking make the agenda.

A very concerning thread...... 

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 15:00 | 4883305 soontobeblocked
soontobeblocked's picture

"let me tell you with first hand "

Let ME tell YOU firsthand that my experience is quite different.  I deal with them weekly, and have audited their plants (in my industry) on a dozen occassions, and they're cleaner and safer than their US counterparts.  They also tend to falsify their documents less often (,,,again in my industry - which is one the US's biggest poluters btw)

To be fair, their plants are newer than their US counterparts.  State of the art in most circumstances, so the rest is to be expected, but that's the point of this rebuttal:  the CHI reactors won't exactly be antiquated (as are several US reactors that - to my understanding - needed to be removed from service long ago).

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 05:08 | 4884824 LostandFound
LostandFound's picture

Then the concerns made by the French must be nonsense and propoganda then or that the US has worse standards than China.

I have seen our 3rd party expert poisoned, documents falsified, health and safety ignored, blatent lies and cover ups, the list goes on and on.

Whilst we both have a difference of opinion, i accept that i cannot pigeon hole the whole industry based on my personal experiences, there is good and bad in most practices.

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 13:53 | 4883139 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Didn't they make a movie about this?

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 18:59 | 4883931 BigJim
BigJim's picture

In CHina it's called 'The America Syndrome'

Sun, 06/22/2014 - 14:05 | 4883157 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

the chinese learned from fukushima that if they put their nukes on the right coast and it all goes to shit the radiation drifts away to somewhere else like magic and isn't rearry a probrem.

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