This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Kiev Doubles The Price Of Cold Water, Shuts Off Hot Water

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Simon Black via Sovereign Man blog,

No one ever thinks about the water. Or the toilet paper, as it were.

But these are among the many, many staples that become luxuries when one’s nation is in crisis.

Hours ago, the local gas company in Kiev (Kyivenergo) announced that they would be shutting off the hot water supply to most of the city.

While the official reason for the hot water shutoff is that Kyivenergo (the energy supplier to Kiev) owes a debt to the Ukrainian state gas company (Naftogaz) of over $100 million.

It’s just a quirky little coincidence that this debt suddenly became materially important only one week after Russia shut off natural gas supplies to Ukraine.

Funny thing is that Ukrainian politicians for years had been telling people not to worry about this.

You see, Ukraine has its own domestic natural gas supplies. And they tell people that the domestic gas is strictly for the people and their utilities (like hot water).

Russian gas, according to this story, is imported for businesses to use. But that domestic gas is sacrosanct, only for the people.

Clearly this turned out to be a big fat lie.

Bear in mind, it was just a few weeks ago that utility companies announced that the price of cold water would jump from 3.18 hryvnas per cubic meter to 6.22– a 95% increase, practically overnight.

So there’s an entire city now taking cold showers… and paying twice the price for the privilege! Insult. Injury.

I have several Ukrainian employees with family still in the country; they’re telling me how their loved ones are now finally starting to look at their options to get out of dodge.

It’s strange when you think about it– war, revolution, inflation, etc. All of that was OK. Cold showers?!?! “Honey pack the bags, it’s time to leave.”

I jest of course; all of this is accumulated pain that eventually culminates in reaching one’s breaking point… especially when a rational look into the future suggests this situation will not resolve itself anytime soon.

You know the outlook isn’t so great right now because Ukraine’s Vice Premier Minister is telling people that they can survive the -winter- (still months away) without Russian gas imports.

While I’m sure everyone appreciates the ‘turn that frown upside down’ approach, they’d probably just rather take a hot shower and not be lied to about the nation’s ability to sustain shrinkage.

A few key lessons I wanted to pull out of this:

1. Politicians always lie. They will tell you that your nation is stronger than it really is, that your country is prepared for whatever may come, that your benefits will never be cut, etc. And even though they may be well-intentioned, these are not promises that can be kept… especially by a nation in crisis.

 

2. A nation in crisis affects just about everything. It’s not just about numbers and data, or even Molotov cocktails. It’s hot water and toilet paper. It’s food on the shelves. It’s the stuff we all take for granted that suddenly doesn’t function anymore.

 

3. Even though the obvious warning signs are there, most people wait until it’s too late (or at least suboptimal) before considering their options. When you wait until a full blown crisis, you have to rush through critical decisions in haste instead of planning things out slowly, rationally.

Rational people have a plan B because we all have a breaking point. Do you know what you would do if you reached yours?

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:32 | 4887435 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

They have distributed hot water?  How does that even work?

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:37 | 4887449 max2205
max2205's picture

Lots of pissed off guys saying they have shrinkage.

Turtle?

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:48 | 4887497 quintago
quintago's picture

It runs through Chernobyl. That way it stays hot over distances of hundreds of miles.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:19 | 4887558 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

<  Vlad will watch and laugh

<  Vlad will attack

Wait until they get blowtorched in the groin with the pension and wage cuts and then deep fried in boiling oil by the doubling of taxes... just to make whole the criminal Western bankers who saddled them with tens of billions in fraudulent debt that went directly into the pockets of their oligarch leaders.

I expect everything except the water is going to get very hot in Kiev...

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:24 | 4887641 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

Rinat Leonidovych Akhmetov, the 101st richest person in the world, is the owner of Kyivenergo Gas through SCM Holdings.
Allegedly, Akhmetov has "financed the separatist movement in the region of Donbass and that the separatists “all took money” from Akhmetov and others, saying that “As it turned out, two-thirds of the activists were supported by the oligarch Akhmetov”.

Akhmetov is also active with the Ukraine Party of Regions. The party claims to ideologically defend and uphold the rights of ethnic Russians and speakers of the Russian language in Ukraine.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:23 | 4887655 knukles
knukles's picture

That's what happens when you're dependent upon the communal water heater.
Somebody else runs out of other people's money and you get to freeze in the dark.
Smelly

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:51 | 4887730 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

They'll be soaping up in large groups and then pissing on each other by December...

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:04 | 4887780 franzpick
franzpick's picture

Maybe distributed hot water, through wasteful, energy losing runs of 10s or 100s of klics, works just fine when you can maintain the heat using free gas syphoned and stolen from pipes supplying party EU from supplier party RUS.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:21 | 4887831 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

I hate to sound like a Z - broken - H record...

...but this debt is only enabled by a fiat/fractional reserve banking system.  With fractional reserve based credit invention expansion soon to be implosion - this Ukranian gas/water debt bubble would have never existed.

thus...the entire suffering of the Ukranian people is a byproduct of our self legalized banking counterfeit-me-some-not-you-some system.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:43 | 4887911 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

If hot water leaves the "hot water plant" at boiling temp, and is transported through a pipe buried twelve inches below the ground, with avg ground temp near freezing in the winter, what is the temperature of the water after being transported twenty five miles?

 

Simon??

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 22:51 | 4888095 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

42

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:40 | 4887460 kowalli
kowalli's picture

simple - only cold water... next year in USA too=)

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:41 | 4887695 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Hot water doesn't come into your home heated, it comes in cold and you have a hot water heater in your home that heats it up. So how do they control the hot water heaters? If they are gas-operated, they shut of the gas? Specifically to the hot water heater? That's some pretty high-tech shit, eh? I have a gas line, it serves my range, and my hot water heater, and they can't turn it off on just the hot water heater, they have to shut the main line down. And they have this technology in Ukraine? Doubtful. The story doesn't pass the sniff test.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:48 | 4887724 kowalli
kowalli's picture

In Ukrain,Russia, USSR -Hot water come into your home heated.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:12 | 4887803 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Really? That's interesting, and seems inefficient from an engineering standpoint, but I'm no engineer. If what you say is true, I stand corrected.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:35 | 4887876 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

This is so common in Eastern Europe that people take it for granted. Efficient as well. Cities run hot and cold water pipes with large central boilers. Works perfect. Why not?

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:49 | 4887933 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Really?

Its more "efficient" for an entire section or city to go without hot water than a single home because the water heater breaks?

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 23:48 | 4888209 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

I hate to break in - the comments are getting so amusing here. But...

Kiev has central heating and central hot water (two different systems) because it's made very efficiently at the gas-fired electric power plant (KievEnergo) from the exhaust - which would otherwise be wasted heat dumped into the outside air (like in most of the U.S.). The electric plant runs 24x7 and is always capable of producing a heating supply and hot water supply. They usually turn the heating leg off during summer months to save pumping tons of unused heat all over the city. The water is distributed in insulated pipes buried at least a few meters down - well below the frost line. District heating water is maybe 65C when consumed, the newer district hot water is nearly boiling when delivered to block-sized substations, and mixed down to 55C before circulating inside supply loops or directly connections in the individual buildings. The old hot water system in Kiev is a direct system and the temperature is kind of a crap-shoot, but luke-warm after five minutes for most people, maybe a half-hour if you're on the 15th floor of an old apartment.

KievEnergo probably shut off district heating to the entire city by now. Nobody pays for the four or five months of summer when they wouldn't use it anyway. Residences have some sort of cat-burning device for the occasional cold night according to Google translate.

KievEnergo IS shutting off hot water and heat to a few hundred residential customers in one district, and a few hundred in another. They may be talking about apartment buildings, not an individual house. Hard to tell. Unless Ebola has swept through Kiev already, I think that still only amounts to a fraction of it's residents, but probably serves the purpose of warning everyone that the free shit army has left Kiev. You have to pay your heat and water bill if you want heat and water. 

I'm not suggesting the individual residents of Kiev have not been paying their bills. Just that some of them are going to discover that the housing organization oligarchs have been pocketing their utility money for years and now they have to come up with several million dollars for KievEnergo if they want to take a shower or have heat this winter.

I'm guessing the Kiev 'Corrupt Oligarch' Guillotines will be pressed into service soon. And God help the poor cats.

Tue, 06/24/2014 - 06:04 | 4888530 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

"I'm not suggesting the individual residents of Kiev have not been paying their bills."

If you won't, then I will.  Certainly not all, maybe even most, but plenty don't, and/or find ways to run an extension cord to an empty apartment for "free" electricity.

Tue, 06/24/2014 - 08:30 | 4888709 Nigh Eve
Nigh Eve's picture

Thanks, Pavewat IV!

Your comment is probably the most informative insight on this entire page (even better than the original histrionic article).

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 22:39 | 4888062 cifo
cifo's picture

The distributed hot weater is actually a by product of power generation.

Tue, 06/24/2014 - 15:13 | 4890312 PiratePiggy
PiratePiggy's picture

Correct.  It is also used to heat homes nearby in the winter.  In the USA, we dump the heat into the rivers in the winter as well as in the summer.

Tue, 06/24/2014 - 04:32 | 4888487 Divine
Divine's picture

Dawg its not only the old USSR. Here in Finland we use the hot water coming from the heating plant to heat up the homes by circulating the water in the radiators. All faucets have a mixer that allow you to freely set your temperature. We use the same water in toilets, showers etc and its really effecient system. It gives you "unlimited" hot water so you dont run out of warm water during your showers.

 

 

 

Tue, 06/24/2014 - 08:20 | 4888687 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

Question: Why would they have a hot water heater....doesn't this imply the water is already hot?? Wouldn't it just a water heater?

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:32 | 4887870 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Kerry says It will take at least 3 years for the US to build thermal transports and the proper loading facilities for the US to export our hot water to Ukraine.

Until then, the USAF will begin Operation Wet Nap and para drop tons of cleansing wipes to the stinky, huddled masses of Kiev.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:41 | 4887467 jimmytorpedo
jimmytorpedo's picture

Costa Rica has distributed hot water Citxmech.

Only because the water pipes are about 4 inches under the ground.

Ukraine,...I'm as confused as you about that one.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:49 | 4887500 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

That could explain why they apparently use so much gas for hot water, but there's something that doesn't smell right with the story... and the elusive level of "community" that the formerly communist kleptocracy would have had to have reached for it to be true (from an engineering standpoint).

Perhaps they simply shutoff the all gas the to residential neighborhoods, since it's not like anyone would want to cook food in the hot summer. They should fine util winter. Forward!

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:58 | 4887550 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

I think what they are saying is residential gas is being smacked (which makes hot water and not much else).

They are contrasting that with businesses that use nat gas, which apparently aren't being smacked.

I don't think this is about distributed hot water.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:06 | 4887588 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Google translate sucks! but it looks like the utility is distributing steam, not hot water. There are only about 750 apartments(?) and homes affected.

What I can't figure out is how many homes and businesses are not impacted since burning gas for electricity also generates heat which would normally be recaptured, in addition to the two separate steam plants the utility operates (i.e. shutting the whole thing down would be nonsensical since heat is a natural by-product of electrical generation, and would incur the wrath of the EU tree huggers).

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:12 | 4887611 kowalli
kowalli's picture

it's hot water... not steam... you should learn Russian or Chinese...

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:17 | 4887635 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

I'll stick to the four languages I already use. But it looks like they pulled a Detroit last week and cut power to street and public lighting in a bunch of areas. So at the rate they are shedding load - only the politicians, banksters and MIC should have any utilities in a few weeks.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:30 | 4887667 kowalli
kowalli's picture

That's US government way of thinking - 1)superhumans - americans (c) Obama, 2)humans - Europe and 3)subhumans - all remaining. All remaining - must only work and eat...

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:57 | 4887754 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Individual metering with collective punishment for non-payment by other individuals...Ukrainian bean counters are about as nutty as their engineers. Let us know when the powers than be in Kiev are made to do without light and hot water because they or their neighbors don't pay their bill.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:39 | 4887890 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Sorry, but common heating and hot water are not hard to engineer. How would that be? Tens of thousands of individual hot water heaters versus central boilers for steam heat across the cities and hot water running alongside. I have been to Russia many times, this common system is all over. Enginnering of it is simple and efficient. To save costs is why it was done.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:52 | 4887943 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

I'm not saying it's hard to engineer. I'm saying it's GROSSLY inefficient.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 22:17 | 4887964 nmewn
nmewn's picture

And you're paying for something you may not use.

I can turn my hot water heater off when I leave and not pay for something I'm not using, someone living in a centrally planned economy can't.

//////////

That was in agreement with Urban by the way.

Tue, 06/24/2014 - 04:40 | 4888491 Divine
Divine's picture

nmewn, not only is the water heated with "free" by-product heat - the same heated water is used to heat up the infrastructure. It's way cheaper to use hot water circulating in your radiators than heating with electricity/wood/gaysex. All and all I would say central heating / water system is more cost effective. And Yes I have also lived in USA, UK, Estonia etc so I have some insight about it.

 

I pay 0,5 € for a cubic metre of very pure water and the same water keeps my monthly electricity bill at about 35€. What about you?

Tue, 06/24/2014 - 08:12 | 4888665 nmewn
nmewn's picture

First off, you have to have high population density in order to make it viable, I refuse to live like a rat in a cage. Secondly, there is the issue of who owns the, shall we say "monopoly", the state or one of its hand picked operators. Thirdly, there is nothing "free" in this life, you are being charged (and metered, apparently) for plain, simple hot water, whether it became hot by means of by-product power generation or not, someones use of energy made it hot or its geo-thermal.

In my case (because you asked) I don't live in a city. I have two wells, that I paid to have installed, one for irrigation and one for the house, both un-metered and I'll shoot the first statist prick who attempts to attach a meter to my property. I maintain them both, I just put a new pressure switch and gauge on the one for the house last month as a matter of fact. I regulate the temperature of MY hot water heater to my liking, no meetings, no pleadings to a central authority or letter to the editor or company.

I pay zero for water, only the cost to pump it out of the ground (negligible) and heat it if I want it hot.

My point is, I will always have hot & cold running water when I want it (I also have a generator if the power goes out) inter-dependent city dwellers, apparently not so much. My larger point is, if you cannot do it yourself you're doomed to remain on someone elses treadmill (see rat in a cage above) and dependent on them for something as simple as hot water, at whatever price they choose for you to pay.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 22:43 | 4888070 cifo
cifo's picture

Red, the hot water is practically free, from power generation. They only need to flow it to the buildings.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 23:25 | 4888160 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

2x the pipe (and steel cost for both initial capex and maintenance)

for every meter of pipe and second of time in the pipe, there is heat loss (global warming at it's purest)

because there is not constant flow at end points, people turn on the water and "wait [even longer] for it to warm up" (direct conversion to waste of both water and heat)

because the temperatures drops the further down the line one is, then either there is a very UNEQUAL distribution and pricing of "hot" water, or the people closest to the source then waste more energy chilling their water

if it was free now, they wouldn't need to cut it off service in summer

if it was free now, they wouldn't have needed to build additional water heating plants

Like I said, the engineering is easy, and if the amount of heat required for a town is more or less in line with the waste heat output of a new powerplant it might look seductively easy and cheap, but over the long term it is always going to be a losing proposition, unless one has basically "free" energy to burn (which seems to be an attitude problem both in the USSA and USSR, in addition to why both countries have always been so big in the aluminum business while the Japanese were so small).

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 23:59 | 4888235 cifo
cifo's picture

From what I know, there are heat transfer stations (like hubs). The hot water from the power plant is not the same flowing in people's radiators. Then there are also re-heating stations along the way.

It may be inefficient, but there may be other advantages. Think that most people in the cities there live in apartment buildings. When this system was built, in ealy 20th century, it may have been a hassle to install water tanks and gas meters in everybody's small apt.

Tue, 06/24/2014 - 04:50 | 4888496 Divine
Divine's picture

Urban Redneck, Buying the second pipe and setting it up at the same time is not that expensive when you consider the alternative of buying millions of water heaters.

 

"for every meter of pipe and second of time in the pipe, there is heat loss (global warming at it's purest)"  - this same heat would have been lost at the plant anyways, how its going to increase the heat loss?

 

 

Tue, 06/24/2014 - 09:12 | 4888821 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

It's not millions, your quantity is off by orders of magnitude because cities tend to have apartment buildings with communal infrastructure. Kiev has less than 3 million people who tend to live more than one to a household/apartment and more than 3 power plants.

Furthermore, the heat would not necessarily be lost otherwise, because the plant would have the option of capturing the heat and converting it into additional electricity. A combined and heat and power plant is significantly less efficient than a comparable dedicated power plant. A combined plant can also have issues with needless excess heat production in summer.

However, at the micro level a residential water heater design is sometimes less efficient than a municipal design before taking into account transmission loss. An example would be a single family dwelling with a relatively large hot water storage tank and low capacity utilization, but I don't think this was a luxury alternative that the commies were looking at when they came up with their communal crackpot design.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:21 | 4887646 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Ahhh, I see the problem now, its Simon Black International Man of Mystery.

He thinks city hot water comes from the city hot water plant because he turns the knob thingy marked with an "H" (pick the language) and hot water comes out...and not from the cold water entering dwellings water heater he is standing in.

Problem solved, next! ;-)

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:38 | 4887686 pakled
pakled's picture

Not A Simon Black fan? What's not to love?

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:56 | 4887746 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well, thats the way it reads to me, the same as Urban Redneck pointed out above, at the engineering level.

I have no idea how the water utility system works in Ukraine but if its anything like everywhere else, cold water is piped into a building and then heated by steam or gas or electicity (or solar for you green freaks out there...lol).

How he gets to water being a problem is beyond me, there is plenty of water, just nothing to heat it with.

Still long firewood & pots ;-)

Tue, 06/24/2014 - 01:13 | 4888352 2¢Wurth
2¢Wurth's picture

My apartment in Kharkiv has hot water generated for around 17 buildings, average of nine floors with 7-8 apartments per floor, so around 2500 people, plus or minus.  There are two seperate water systems, one for drinking (or slow death) and one for heating.  Hot water for the radiators is not turned on until you have several consecutive days of near freezing weather.  All utilities used to be (up to around 2000) metered only at the building.  You have a book that has the name of everyone in each apartment, and it is almost impossible to get your name off the book.  My daughter moved out in 2002 and is still 'on the book'. You pay according to the total number of people in the building, so it is in everyones best interest to keep all the dead people 'on the book'.  Now I have my own electrical meter and gas meter.  I am pro-rated on the six channels of cable TV and the elevator, which only runs when you absolutely do NOT need it, guaranteed.  I also have to pay a stipend for a little old lady to sit at the front entrance and waste about fifteen minutes of the every day keeping me up with the gossip; every entrance has a grandma sitting at or near it.  So, hot water only goes around 300 meters in my neighborhoood, is gas fired and is very hot in the early morning and for about an hour in the evening, the rest of the time it is barely lukewarm.  It you want hot water at odd times you heat it up in a large pan on the stove, if there is gas comng into the building.

Tue, 06/24/2014 - 01:55 | 4888394 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Looking at the inefficient power plant technology and high pollution of the current Ukranian power plants- it wouldn't surprise me if there are a whole bunch of EU energy oligarchs and their bankers salivating at the prospect of saddling Ukraine with billions more debt (or plundered equity) and requirements to use more nat gas (perversely), and in exchange for the "privilege" of meeting EU regulations- not even improving the crappy water service you already have. The EUSSR at its "finest".

Tue, 06/24/2014 - 07:00 | 4888581 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

You gotta respect the ol time villagers in East Europe they did without any of the modern conveniences and lived quite nicely.  Had clean clothes, bathed every day even if the water was cold (back then a bath was a bucket and a cup to get water out and pour over yourself before lathering and for the rinse after.  They stayed warm by living in the kitchen in the winter time where the heat from cooking would keep the kitchen warm, and of course lots of nice wool blankets can do wonders.  We had the same thing in the USA with the small town farmers.  A way of life that is lost in this current crap system.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:00 | 4887556 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Thats where I was at, a hot water plant/factory?...lol.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:49 | 4887502 BobTheSlob
BobTheSlob's picture

Centrally planned hot water for commies. Why do for yourself what the communal village can provide for you for "free". Makes sense to me!

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:00 | 4887560 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

I think you nailed it.  Central hot water for a centrally-planned economy.  Makes perfect sense.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:41 | 4887897 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Is good have free hot water is here in Ukraine.

Is problem you carry home in bucket with open top.

Tue, 06/24/2014 - 02:57 | 4888433 Kprime
Kprime's picture

what do you suppose it presages for americans with centrally supplied electricity?

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:41 | 4887468 surf0766
surf0766's picture

All their hot water are belong to us.

 

 

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:45 | 4887482 Advoc8tr
Advoc8tr's picture

My thoughts exactly ... especially in a cold environment like theirs. Imagine the loss of heat in transit through the icy pipes ? Given the gas dramas and intermittent electricity supply a good old electric storage heater seems the obvious solution.

 

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:53 | 4887516 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

They're special tubes that have no thermal conductivity.  Al Gore invented them right after he invented the Intertubes.

What can I say?  The man has a talent for tubes.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:02 | 4887571 pods
pods's picture

So you're telling me it is a series of tubes?

pods

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:28 | 4887662 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

"C'mon, pods, it's ALL about tubes these days.  Now get me some gauze, some 30-weight ball bearings and 4 gallons of antifreeze.  Preferrably Prestone.  No.... make that Quaker State."  <Fletch>

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:42 | 4887903 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Nice. A classic.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:00 | 4887557 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Big chunk of their electricity comes from nat gas.

Tue, 06/24/2014 - 04:54 | 4888497 Divine
Divine's picture

Oh my god, you americans really need to travel more. The pipes they use are not really rusty old iron pipes, but highly insulated special ones running many meters under ground so it never freezes in there. Of cource there is heat loss, but it was heated with by-product heat that would have been lost anyways - as it is lost in the USA - where you then have to pay for energy to heat the said water before use.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:48 | 4887499 Reaper
Reaper's picture

New York City has underground steam pipes from Con Ed which are used to heat and make hot water in buildings in Manhattan. The steam heats the water in the pipes in each building.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:50 | 4887509 BobTheSlob
BobTheSlob's picture

See makes sense. NYC is another collective socialist hellhole. Hot water for the masses...until it stops.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:27 | 4887848 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

WSHTF, in Manhattan not hot or cold water but the biggest problem will be rats.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:50 | 4887508 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Why not just head down to Home Depot and pick up a hot water heater like the rest of the world does?

Oh yeah, Home Depot was blown up in the last raid by the rebels who are actually Russians who are actually the Ukranian government who are actually the CIA.  Or something like that.  I'm having a hard time keeping track of who's who and who's pretending to be somebody else.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:09 | 4887595 hobopants
hobopants's picture

I'm having trouble caring at this point. 

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:18 | 4887636 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Me too, man.  I'm about fully in the Ron Paul "stay the hell outta other countries" camp at this point.  Used to be we take action somewhere and it bites us in the ass 10 years later.  Now, with the current string of brain-dead administrations, it blows up in our faces pretty close to immediately.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:51 | 4887727 hobopants
hobopants's picture

Ya the gaggle of idiots running the show have no finesse with the dialectic these days, the next false flag will probably be so lazy they won't bother to hide the made in USA stickers on the weapons they use.

Whether it's a testament to the diminished mental capabilities of the players or the audience, I'm not sure, but the whole production sucks. A farce is suppose to be funny.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:51 | 4887510 potato
potato's picture

http://www.wzorowo.com/wp-content/gallery/kaloryfer/kaloryfer.jpg

Steam comes from the central power station and heats the house through a steam radiator.

Same with hot water. Everyone lives in tiny cement communist apartments from the 1960s.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:27 | 4887659 knukles
knukles's picture

Then there's not much to heat, so little loss.
Plus, its summer.
Wait a few more months when Vlad shuts off EU's gas...

And asks for gold...

Tue, 06/24/2014 - 09:34 | 4888943 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Last person to try that got himself, and his entire family killed. 

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:58 | 4887552 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Left over from the Communist era.

Hot water is the water pipe with the hot water label.  Otherwise the same....

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:11 | 4887606 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

one of the legacies of central planning in the Soviet Union. Actually when I lived in Russia and Ukraine it was common to shut off the hot water in the summer

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:51 | 4887624 JuliaS
JuliaS's picture

Distributed hot water systems are common across all of Eurasia. Water is typically heated in huge gas or coal powered furnaces and delivered via thermally insulated pipes. In the end, there's little difference between having a water/gas pipe setup, or 2 water pipes instead. It may actually be more convenient not having a furnace in the basement. It reduces construction requirements and lowers maintenance costs, shifting them onto the utility company.

Regarding the article, one thing will come out of this crisis - people will start using portable electrical heaters, which are present in nearly every Ukrainian home. That will put additional stress onto the electrical grid, possibly causing blackouts. And, if it's worth mentioning, since electricity is partially generated from the very same natural gas, shifting consumption will do absolutely nothing to address the deficit of resources.

And this is not even winter! If the Ukraine does not change its tone by November, it might end up with no hot water, no gas and no electricity.

One of the downsides to the centralized hot water delivery is that it requires a constant flow of water to prevent pipes from freezing. If natural gas crisis is not resolved, the hit to country's infrastructure will be immeasurable... oh, and did I mention, cold water is pumped electrically! The irony here is that if they start heating cold water with electricity, they'll end up with neither.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:06 | 4887787 Flagit
Flagit's picture

 

If the Ukraine does not change its tone by November, it might end up with no hot water, no gas and no electricity.

 

Camp Ukraine

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 23:32 | 4888178 pathetic looser
pathetic looser's picture

centralised heating - soviet style.  getting shot off for 3-4 weeks every year for maintanance.  if gov shots hot water off - noone has hot water( only if you have a personal electrical heater)

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 23:32 | 4888179 pathetic looser
pathetic looser's picture

centralised heating - soviet style.  getting shot off for 3-4 weeks every year for maintanance.  if gov shots hot water off - noone has hot water( only if you have a personal electrical heater)

Tue, 06/24/2014 - 07:53 | 4888625 tonyw
tonyw's picture

In many colder countries there are "cogeneration" power plants that supply hot water to many users.

Instead of the hot water/steam being vented off it is pumped around the locality.

Since ukraine has a continental climate, very hot in summer, very cold in winter the pipes will probably be buried deep so as not to freeze or above ground and heavily insulated.

Before the advent of electricity some cities (e.g. London) had pressurised water system that was used to drive equipment (hydraulics)

How about those iconic pics of New York with steam rising in the streets.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:33 | 4887437 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I'm long pots & firewood.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:35 | 4887445 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Someone posted recently on how a decent chunk of Ukraine's forests are due for a cutting (based on historical usage).

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:42 | 4887472 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Better they have use of it than letting the Russians clear cut it later ;-)

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:47 | 4887485 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

You know everyone works for the State when you see individual goons guarding individual trees against 'the commoners' cutting them down. None of them have firewood either, kind of like how the iPad line workers don't have iPads.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:51 | 4887511 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Just like "the kings deer" of old were protected from the starving masses.

We've come a long way haven't we? ;-)

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:57 | 4887546 Poundsand
Poundsand's picture

By hook or by crook!

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:00 | 4887764 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

LOL what forests, by the time they need the wood they would of all been bought by foreign interests who will use the wood for furniture etc.  The Ukes will have to burn furniture with its huge markup to stay warm lol

What a bunch of freakin losers, they rioted for this kind of austerity and ripoff from the IMF while their country will be bought out from underneath them.  It will be back to serfdom for all the suckers.  How can people be so dumb.  They had it so good with Mother Russia.  Now they are getting Fu***D in every orifice and pipleline, be it gas or water or oil, by the IMF.

Hey at least the mail order bride business will have some great candidates...

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:13 | 4887808 Flagit
Flagit's picture

And they don't even look scammy. Totally legit, larf.

Oooo, one even had an international passport ready.

http://ukraine.craigslist.org/w4m/

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 23:36 | 4888188 pathetic looser
pathetic looser's picture

they prefer for gov to have more weapons/riot gear. better then hot water i guess

 

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:29 | 4887861 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Well, they aren't in the unemployment numbers, so all's good!

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:44 | 4887479 BobTheSlob
BobTheSlob's picture

Forget that...go long on oxygen, that's coming next.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:04 | 4887580 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Break out the knitting needles folks.

If you keep your own heat you don't have to buy it from someone else!

I grew up late 50's early 60s UK.

No central heating and plenty of places with an ecological bum freezer AKA outside toilet.

The world's gone soft, I tell you!

 

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:34 | 4887681 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

My father is old enough he remembers outhouses.  I asked him once "what did you do in the wintertime?"  He said "we would just shit in our beds".  I said "REALLY?!?!?".  To which is said "no, of course not, we used the damned outhouse!"  And then he busted out laughing.

Ah, good times.  Good times.

 

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:11 | 4887802 studfinder
studfinder's picture

A former cop once told me that his dad told him  "you aren't drunk until you shit your pants"...  I guess i've never been drunk, because i can't recall shitting my pants.

When you think about it, power plants have a lot of "waste" heat that is usually dumped into rivers, when in theory it could be put to use in heating water/etc for homes/businesses.

 

 

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:31 | 4887867 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Doesn''t happen because it wouldn't make a profit even though it would improve a lot of lives.

I think I see a pattern here.

Tue, 06/24/2014 - 02:49 | 4888430 Kprime
Kprime's picture

of course you can't remember shitting your pants, you were stone cold drunk. lol

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 23:13 | 4888132 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Everything is circular.  I am digging out my bell bottoms and skin tight gym shorts

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:41 | 4887464 The Duke of New...
The Duke of New York A No.1's picture

Welcome to Austerity Bitchezs!

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:42 | 4887473 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Nestle Says 'Water Isn't A Right'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEy4aT9Rd4g (3:55)

Corporations Wants To Privatize Wat ' '
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isSg7CRPDLY (5:22)

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:43 | 4887477 Reaper
Reaper's picture

Just keep the faith in your leaders. The hot water will come back.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:47 | 4887492 RECISION
RECISION's picture

Hot water costs - hot air is free (sorta).

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:06 | 4887583 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Free???

A lot of hot air comes out of DC, but it's seriously expensive!

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:45 | 4887481 teslaberry
teslaberry's picture

i spoke to a few ukranians protesting vociferously in manhattan when the 'war' began. i told these idiots that they have no clue how the u.s. will lay waste to ukraine. russia might be the bear, but the u.s. is the horns of the bull.

ukranians iz gonna die. better leave before its too bad.

y not immigrate to new york? we love immigrants! no one is illegal, just undocumented! come to us and we will welcome you with open arms and open chains.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:49 | 4887504 kowalli
kowalli's picture

most of ukrainians are under US msm propaganda machine.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:46 | 4887486 Reaper
Reaper's picture

New York City has underground steam pipes from Con Ed which are used to heat and make hot water in buildings in Manhattan.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:55 | 4887488 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

Isn't this one of the reasons they hired Hunter Biden? hot water litigation? strange we haven't heard much about his transition into his roll of doing whateverthefuck he will be doing over there.

Sorry, but I'm still long dipshits and douch-bags....

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:49 | 4887501 Ness.
Ness.'s picture

Piping HOT water... in Ukraine!?  Is this an Onion article?  If they're actually pumping hot water then they're dumber than I thought and Putin really does have these idiots by the nut sack.

Natural gas heats cold war into warm water, right?  Or am I missing something?

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:54 | 4887527 kowalli
kowalli's picture

They just cut off from hot water 754 houses, and this is Ukraines houses - one house have about 400 flats...

Tue, 06/24/2014 - 00:29 | 4887599 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

"If they're actually pumping hot water then they're dumber than I thought and Putin really does have these idiots by the nut sack."

 

If they do pump the heated water rather than steam, they probably obtained the systems, from, wait for it, ....  USSR, which is related to Russia how?  So yes Putin would know about it as it would be the same to well over half of the present day cities of Russia.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:00 | 4887759 spqrusa
spqrusa's picture

Kiev being close to Chernobyl used to heat their water from the Reactor(s) in the area. The little melt down put a damper on the nuclear water heater and they went NatGas. The city is still largely piped for hot and cold water. 

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:51 | 4887515 Truther
Truther's picture

And the chocolate WONKA was elected pissident........ whahahahahahahaha

 

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:52 | 4887523 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

It's a wonderful world.

 

Barry had it wrong.  Not whack a mole.

 

Whack a politician.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:54 | 4887526 logicalman
logicalman's picture

I'm shocked, I tell you.

The government lied to the people???

How could this happen????

Clearly this turned out to be a big fat lie

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:54 | 4887533 kowalli
kowalli's picture

Sure=) Where is no hot water in Kiev, it's a myth,ahahah

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:58 | 4887549 reTARD
reTARD's picture

Can't the collective just share one pool of water???

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:07 | 4887594 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Someone's bound to piss in it.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:16 | 4887627 reTARD
reTARD's picture

Then that's when that collective goes to war against another. Or when the other collectives seal off their borders not wanting those from the contaminated pool to use their cleaner pools.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:17 | 4887632 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Free energy!

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:35 | 4887881 nmewn
nmewn's picture

And its gareeeeeennn!

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 19:59 | 4887554 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

What is colder than the cold water tap in Kiev?

The hot water tap in Kiev.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:00 | 4887563 Kprime
Kprime's picture

Hot Water Nazi,  "No hot water for you"

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:03 | 4887575 surf0766
surf0766's picture

Kiev,, the progressive Utopia where "THEY" control how much hot water you can have.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:04 | 4887577 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

Years ago before going into busness for myself I worked at the city water works. People should think more about their water supply as many reasons exist as to why it could become very unreliable. This is only one of several utilities we need to carry on.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:12 | 4887613 trip kitchen
trip kitchen's picture

Better start peeing in the shower. It's all just pipes anyway.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:13 | 4887616 alentia
alentia's picture

Gotta bow to Russia or live without gas and hot water! Putin is supreme leader of Russia! Russia is supreme world power! Russia does not understand when shitholes like Ukraine disobey the orders! Russia is even more supreme than North Korea! Russians can not read the above as they are no longer allowed on the internet, thanks to supreme leader Putin.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:17 | 4887629 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Got to love Kievan Yatzi Junta Citizenism citizens. The problem is screaming right in their face, but as usual, they prefer their propaganda over facts.

But hey, plenty of Odessans for you to burn for heat in the winter, so no worries at all.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 23:21 | 4888150 alentia
alentia's picture

Did they replace icons in Moscow churches with Putins "obraz" yet?

Tue, 06/24/2014 - 05:06 | 4888501 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

If Kievan Yatzi Junta Citizenism made sense, that would be a story...

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 23:43 | 4888199 pathetic looser
pathetic looser's picture

i wonder who they going to blame once they they realise that russia is not the source of their problems.  another pointless maidan?

 

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:14 | 4887618 logicalman
logicalman's picture

I try not to take anything for granted.

I often think how awesome it is that I can turn a handle and clean (maybe fluoridated, but not full of microbial nasties) water comes out. I turn it the other way and clean HOT water comes out. That's some seriously good stuff!

The water I flush the toilet with is cleaner than half the world's population gets to drink FFS.

But then I have a lot of water filtering capability and live less than 50 yards from Lake Ontario, so I should at least be OK for drinking water.

 

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:15 | 4887623 hairball48
hairball48's picture

Lots of water here in NW MT. I have filters and other treatment for water.

And trust me, I have toilet paper well covered! I'm never without a couple years worth of Charmin double ply extra soft. Damn  Right!

Clyde needs no tp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx7D8p-AoEs

Hairball

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:31 | 4887669 logicalman
logicalman's picture

If you are going to stack, stack the good stuff!

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:18 | 4887824 studfinder
studfinder's picture

Can't wait until the shortage of ass wipe hits.   Skid mark city. 

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:21 | 4887644 Bobportlandor
Bobportlandor's picture

Their new water rate is 230% cheaper then mine.

 

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:23 | 4887653 tuttisaluti
tuttisaluti's picture

I always make some ice cubes with hot water.....you never knows when you need them    lol

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:23 | 4887654 tuttisaluti
tuttisaluti's picture

I always make some ice cubes with hot water.....you never knows when you need them    lol

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:33 | 4887680 ThroxxOfVron
ThroxxOfVron's picture

You pay your water/electricity/gas/bills and ( property ) taxes.

 Your Neighbor(s) do(es) not pay their water/electricity/gas bills and ( property ) tax bills.

Guess WHO is going to be without water/electricity/gas/.gov services when the centralized authorities can no longer demand or extort or borrow or counterfeit in order to continue providing services?

Failure and disruption of centralized utilities, services, programs, etc., affect the productive and honest as much as if not more than the unproductive and honest.

Centralized utilities, services, programs, etc. are a very very bad idea for productive and honest people...

 

How do You compete economically against People who do not pay their bills, employees, mortgage, insurance, taxes, etc.?

 

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:45 | 4887711 kowalli
kowalli's picture

"Centralized utilities, services, programs, etc. are a very very bad idea for productive and honest people..."

You can't make american style in Russia or USSR if temperature below -20 C.

You can make your cardboard houses only in USA.

Stop fucking teaching us how to live. You went to Iraq and taught them your democracy and
you see what came of it.

Americans always want more than they can permit yourself. Jezz god help them,plz

 

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 23:04 | 4888067 ThroxxOfVron
ThroxxOfVron's picture

Preach it to the Ukrainians without hot water, kowalli.

 

Guess who paid for their own well, who paid for oil to be delivered to the tank they paid to put in their basement, who paid to have the furnace they paid for cleaned, who paid their electric bill, who paid for a new water filter, and who paid for a new shower nozzle.  

ME.  

I own my infrastructure as much as it is possible to.  I'm responsible for myself.

Guess who just just had a hot shower.  

ME.

Figure anything out yet?

 

One last thing: I'm not an oppressor.  I speak out and fight against that bullshit.

-Often to the detriment of my own economic and social interests...

Why don't you try to stay on topic like a fucking adult?

-Calling out the failures of centralized/socialist systems has exactly what to do with the aggressions/repressions of the Bankster/MIC/Corporate/Globalist fuckwads.

 ...That is; unless You are ready to get honest and admit that centralized/socialist systems are just a different brand of fronts FOR the aggressions/repressions of the Bankster/MIC/Corporate/Globalist fuckwads.

 

I know damned well that when centralized/socialist systems fail EVERYBODY is fucked.

It's really fucking easy to loot EVERYONE when EVERYONE has their wealth and well being vested in a single place.

I don't have ANY respect for idiots that haven't figured that out by now despite the reams of undeniable evidence.

It's not just the lazy and greedy, the ignorant and imprudent, or the thieving and conniving; EVERYBODY is fucked when the centralized/socialist systems fail.

..& I think that this fact is a damned good reason to resist centralized/socialized systems with all my might.

 

Now, go and be a good little socialist; take a freezing cold fucking shower in solidarity with your comrades.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 23:47 | 4888207 pathetic looser
pathetic looser's picture

lived under both systems , centralised suckes ass

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:38 | 4887687 virgilcaine
virgilcaine's picture

the drama is endless. It just goes on and on.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:44 | 4887708 pakled
pakled's picture

So does anyone in Kiev want to take a delviery of 10 pallets of solar showers from the USA?

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:46 | 4887714 kowalli
kowalli's picture

Does they have money for that?

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 20:57 | 4887750 Dublinmick
Dublinmick's picture

Maybe Yats wasn't the "guy".

 

Seriously I am sure most of the Ukrainian intellectuals were starved during the great famine and the population was once again kept in the dark under soviet communism. It is tragic but I would say a large part of the Ukraine has no idea what is going on. Being blasted by the Chernobyl meltdown did not help either I am sure.

Their troubles are only just beginning as they integrate into "western civilization" and austerity. This winter is going to be a nightmare for them and the maiden is not going to seem so romantic.

I have a feeling that is why the Porky brigade does now seem willing to negotiate. 65,000 troops back on the border area probably spurred this along.

Things are going great in London however as they have now agreed to accept the yuan., They can do this as that is where all of the gold ended up.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 23:54 | 4888223 pathetic looser
pathetic looser's picture

hierarchical structures are build on foundation of ignorence

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:01 | 4887769 Postal
Postal's picture

"But we wuz promised!!!"

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:08 | 4887792 cavsgt
cavsgt's picture

Hot water in Kyiv pipes is some kind of a mix of cold water, produced by communal enterprise "Kyivvodokanal" (Kyiv water channel - ed.) and heat energy, provided by communal enterprise "Kyivenergo". Accordingly, the hot water tariff consists of several constituents: payment for cold water, intended for heating; payment for energy, used to heat the water, and payment for supply itself.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:08 | 4887793 cavsgt
cavsgt's picture

Hot water in Kyiv pipes is some kind of a mix of cold water, produced by communal enterprise "Kyivvodokanal" (Kyiv water channel - ed.) and heat energy, provided by communal enterprise "Kyivenergo". Accordingly, the hot water tariff consists of several constituents: payment for cold water, intended for heating; payment for energy, used to heat the water, and payment for supply itself.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:25 | 4887843 nmewn
nmewn's picture

So, some sort of VAT tax (a cost) at every step of the way in order to take a decent shave?

Please tell me they don't expect the consumer to pay for the razor as well, the handle that holds head for the razor and the preferred color of the "razor holding unit" too. What about the package the "razor holding unit" comes in, can't they imbed a cost in that too? 

Maybe the ink describing what is actually held within the package? ;-)

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 21:37 | 4887886 logicalman
logicalman's picture

I've had a beard for 30 years!

I rarely travel around in a 4 wheeled metal box. 2 wheels & pedals work fine 98% of the time.

I'll only ever have a cell number when I'm in one.

Make a choice and live with the consequeces.

Mon, 06/23/2014 - 22:12 | 4887993 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I grow mine for winter, shaving it off tomorrow. I drive a 2012 Ford F150 four door, I don't own a cell phone. Made my choices and I've discovered the consequences of trying to hunt deer or turkey, on a bike, in a swamp ;-)

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!