This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
"America Deluded Us" Slams Angry Iraq PM, Will Buy Russian Jets Instead In War Against ISIS
It was a week ago when we learned that in yet another diplomatic masterstroke, Russia's Vladimir Putin took advantage of the vacuum in relations between the US (which now wants its heretofore puppet prime minister in Iraq removed) and the Iraqi PM (who has been increasingly vocal against US allies in the region, namely Saudi Arabia, and US demands for a coalition government) and offered his "complete support" to the Iraqi leader. Yesterday the Iraqi leader has decided to take Putin up on his offer (especially since as we reported previously the Iraqi air force is currently made up of all of two "equipped" Cessna jets) and has announced he has bought used Russian jets which he will use instead of US fighter planes in his war against ISIS.
As BBC reports, citing Maliki, "Jets from Russia and Belarus will hopefully make a key difference in the fight against ISIS in Iraq." He expressed regrets over Iraq's contract with the US, saying their "jets are taking too long to arrive."
"God willing within one week this force will be effective and will destroy the terrorists' dens," he told BBC Arabic.

Mr Maliki says Iraq has ordered Sukhoi fighter jets from Russia, possibly similar to the one pictured.
In the meantime, the prime minister took another chance to poke the US in the eye, which despite sending "weaponized consultants" or whatever Obama calls troops and special CIA agents these days, has so far failed to deliver on its promised fighter jets to the civil war-torn country. Maliki criticized the process of purchasing US jets as “long-winded,” adding that the radicals could have been repelled if Iraq had proper air defense.
"I'll be frank and say that we were deluded when we signed the contract [with the US]," Maliki said. "We should have sought to buy other jet fighters like British, French and Russian to secure the air cover for our forces; if we had air cover we would have averted what had happened," he went on.
Maliki said Iraq bought second-hand jet fighters from Russia and Belarus "that should arrive in Iraq in two or three days." He was speaking to the BBC's Arabic service in his first interview for an international broadcaster since Isis - the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant - began its major offensive.
The prime minister also confirmed that Syrian forces had carried out air strikes against Islamist militants at a border crossing between Iraq and Syria. He said Iraq had not requested the strikes but that it "welcomed" them. "They carry out their strikes and we carry out ours and the final winners are our two countries," he said.
Ironically, this also means that, at least optically, the US is now alligned with Russia as well as Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia in the "all against one" fight against ISIS which continued to consolidate its territory in Iraq and Syria.
What it really means is that Obama has asked, and is about to get $500 milllion more to arm ISIS and its al-Qaeda peers in Syria, which in turn the Iraq air force will now use Russian jets to bomb.
What is the definition of a proxy war again?
- 40511 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -


BURN!!!!
Right now the Russians build better equipment. How in God's name the Eurofighter is actually produced is still beyond me.
You are not alone, and I'm from Europe.
BTW Obummer (more like the guys who made him) screwed this up.
Too late for you now... You're owned and the devil wants his due. The devil always knew you would bite......you were predicatable and the game always knew your moves. Now you pay.
obama wanted to get us out of the middle east... nevermind the fact that with Russia being the largest oil exporter, coupled with Iran and soon to be Iraq, and the Saudis losing faith in us, I'm not sure how much longer it will be before all Middle Eastern oil stops flowing west... not that it matters since we're now "north american energy independent..." for the next 5-10 years. 2025 is when this bird comes homes to roost.
Hey, Maliki gets it! Well that is one delusion conquered. Now just have to accept that there is no Allah-Clause, Jesus-Clause or YHWH-Clause and also that money is created by a private monopoly group and he is well on his way to becoming a pretty good (but dead) PM....
Obama tees one up, Putin knocks the cover off the ball. Again.
This is getting embarassing. If you just want to hand it all over to Russia and let them deal with it, why not just say so and walk away?
Obama = Sunni Muslim
meanwhile, the Obowelmovement wants to give Al Qaida fighters in Syria half a billion in weaponry
This brings into perspective what the future lack of air cover around the world will do.
I hope Putin is demanding cash up front. Going forward, I suspect the Iraq State's ability to pay its bills may be in jeopardy.
.
When you make deals with Satan don't be surprised when he betrays you.
I'm continually surprised why anyone abroad would trust our federal government's word. It has a very consistent record of effing people over.
If Putin really wants to escalate this, he could send Russian special forces into Mexico to help stabilize the situation there and secure the border...
Cheney would probably have another heart attack.
Impossible. Alien reptiloids like Cheney do not have a "heart"...
Then it chokes itself with the poison it's spitting.
No surprise here. I noticed Malaki "friended' Putin last week on FB.
Interesting thing, they are getting Russian jets in 2-3 days that will be providing air cover immediately I am assuming. Since it takes a while to train pilots and Maliki does not have months, I assume Belarus and Russian mercenary pilots will be doing the air support ?? Just like USA drone pilots are manning the skies over Iraq right now, why not the Russian pilots. And the next question is, will the Russian fighters be taking down USA drones if they see them on their radar?
People use the world destabilize a lot out of context. an unstable mexico generally HELPS the united states in so far as we thrive on all the chaos.
now if you bombed their oil production , that would hurt us by driving down supplies of oil from a strategic source in our backyard.
i don't think putin is interested in trying to meddle in americas backyard all that much. no need to start ww3 and suffer the predictable results of a nuclear attack on moscow.
he's playing the long ball, trying to create a division between germany , france, the uk and the united states. and he will do it, using many of the rules of the game and forum set up by the west ( the u.n. /imf) and china is along for the ride....
Well both him and the chinese are smart. The BRICS are starting their own version of the IMF where the loans will be in a basket of BRIC currencies. Heck with the chinese yuans you can buy anthying you find on the store shelves in the USA, who needs the dollars as middle men. With Rubles you can buy grain and vegetables and Russian oil and gas and nice military equipment. With the brazilian real you can buy tons of soybean and take nice vactions to some of the best beaches in the world. None of this requires you live your life in touch with the dollar or the USA
no trust in politics, that is a term we the people use. There are only promises between money/power grubbers, with every promise a landmine waiting to go off.
The key question I would ask is who is going to fly these planes, the two Cessna pilots? be lucky to get them off the strip.....Oh I see Iragi instant airforce, well this should be good for a laugh....where is Biggles when he's needed?
This.
One does not hop into a fighter jet, get a couple of hours of training and become a fighter plot. Though... if the Russians sent 'weaponized advisors' (aka pilots) as well, the force could be up and running rather quickly, say... a week?
100% given that Russian will be flying those planes, in fact, they might be provided via Russian loans and Iraq didn't have to pay any cash. Eg: Russian forces in Iraq soil. Crimea part 2.
I agree. Maliki is full of it, he won't even be in power in a few months. He played his Shiite dictator card and blew it. Now he'll be lucky to get out of the country alive. This is now Sunni vs Shiite (Iran, Syria, Hezbollah) war to redraw the ME.
What about Chinese? They must pump out fighter pilots by the 100's daily? They must know how to fly those Migs. They also have oil interests in Iraq.
Russians for sure. Here's a question for you. Who were those N. Korean aces during the police action in the early '50s?
Think the Iraqi air force is going into air combat and dogfights will ensue over Anbar? No.
These pilots need to take off and land. The bombs almost drop themselves now.
They will pay with a pipeline for Gazprom
Well the Shiites can do a East Ukraine thing on the Sunnis. Bomb their cities as the Russians show the USA how it looks like when the shoes are reversed.
And of course the Americans stalled on those planes, they had the date for the uprising in their calendar a LOOOONG TIME AGO. They dangled the F16 carrot in front of them so they would not sign any other deals.
LOL Maliki was set up just like Yanukovich. What was it in Ukraine, USA warning him not to use violence against the people (ie their people). But once their nazis were in control its ok to use violence against the people. Maliki only has to say he is following KIEV on this one.
Nice post. Yankovich was not suppossed to club anybody and now the Kiev-ites in Victoria knoodleman's Frankenstien creation, are shelling civillian neighborhoods with ARTILLERY. Sometimes WHITE PHOSPHORUS. Like in GAZA.
Putin doesn't even need to be paid, he WILL make up for it on volume. The implications for the MIC (and grand poobahs who want to stay in power) are significant. Sort like the when Domino's pizza rolled out the 30-minute delivery guarantee.
The geo-strategic implications outside of the MICs are even more mind-numbing...
Every Government worldwide will now realize that if you buy weapons from the USSA they will come with all sorts of precondtions, won't come on time, or the USSA will block the supply of required spare parts if it decides it no longer likes you.
Couple this with the fact that USSA military products sold to foreign governments likely contain NSA code and kill switches (why would USSA take the risk of thier weapons being turned on them if they could insert code that permits them to kill the device?) and you can say goodbye to profitable MIC exports.
Very good point. This can been seen in East Ukraine, where the Kiev forces have limited air support, this lack of fire power from the air allows the Self Defense Forces to easily beat the attacks of Ukraine's army, which enjoys 10 to 1 superiority in men and 50 to 1 in vechicles. Ukraine is run by the CIA and US military advisers who use American tactics. BUT, American infantry and tank tactics don't exist! The tactic is to use these forces to occupy places after air power has destroyed everything. Kiev's troops don't have that. In Iraq, the government must fight on the ground as no air support is there. Using the tacticc taught by America, all Iraqi forces can do is run away! They have been taught to sit tight, dig in and wait. Once the air power has leveled everything, then they move to occupy it.
As you said, Air Power! Without it, western trained forces can't fight. ISIS knows it will nevr have air, so fight eye to eye. In East Ukraine, SDF forces seek to engage Kiev's men in eye ball to eye ball infantry fighting. This works for them, but not for Kiev's USA allies, they are still waiting for mass airpower to arrive. Without it, they are being killed in numbers.
Jack I dont know if ISIS will NEVER have airpower. I have a feeling all those USA drones in the air can easily make lots of targeting errors and hit Maliki's forces. That is why those Russian jets will be handy as they take out the drones and deny the USA eyes in the sky with which they feed intelligence data to embedded people with ISIS.
Yes. IF - as seems likely - ISIS are a US/Israel/Saudi proxy force, then the drones and 'advisers' will be there to aid ISIS, not Maliki's forces.
Surely Maliki realises this?
Or... they're there to ensure ISIS's success stays limited to within their pre-ordained Caliphate. Wouldn't want your proxies getting out of hand and developing any kind of independence.
America has attacked this Shiite pipeline from every angle. FirstvSyria, then Iran, now Iraq. America ruins the world to rule it. Exhibit A, Ukraine. America, fuck yeah
Team America Quote.
See, there's three kinds of people: dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies think everyone can get along, and dicks just want to fuck all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assholes, Chuck. And all the assholes want us to shit all over everything! So, pussies may get mad at dicks once in a while, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes, Chuck. And if they didn't fuck the assholes, you know what you'd get? You'd get your dick and your pussy all covered in shit!
He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing.
- Dune
this is a great quote.
seriously.
i'm still not going to watch that assinine movie, but i love the song and i've listened to it a bunch.
I'm coming round, more and more, to the "intentional takedown of America" camp.
What we are witnessing is way beyond mere incompetence....
It goes back to the 60's. Maybe the 50's. Only difference is that it is accelerating, it has become bolder (more in your face), and more people are catching a clue (thanks to the internet).
Seriously ... how the fuck was it good for America (yes, the old America) when Hubert Humphrey and Ted Kennedy rewrote the immigration laws half a century ago?
How about asking how good it was for America to champion 'free trade' and export all its manufacturing jobs abroad?
The 20%+ joblessness currently destroying America is ON PURPOSE, and the plan is clearly for things to get way worse. Isn't fake, conspiracy-driven democracy wonderful?
Takedown of American society, maybe, but the Anglo-American zElites still seem to be calling most of the shots.
All theatre. Just keep reminding yourself who Russia's financial advisor is(Goldman Sachs), and you'll save yourself the time being distracted by this endless game being played.
My only question is why all the threatre? The bankers pull the strings for both sides, who are they putting a show on for and why?
Go dig up Berezovsky and tell him it was only a game and he's not really dead.
But, but... in TV shows like "24", the POTUS is always beyond reproach and "doing the right thing". And Lone Hero types like Jack Bauer are always there to sacrifice themselves, to save the rest. And they get huge problems solved in 24 hrs, on a meager budget, few people and existing tools.
You mean the real government and real world is not like that?
"24" and most everything coming out of Hollywood is CIA psyops meant to steer the sheep. So many shows where most of the cops/feds are the "good guys" protecting us against evildoers. Its all meant to get our passive acquiesence. Note how many "black" presidents since the mid 1990s in Hollywood blockbusters/shows. All meant to set us up for Obama. Well, Obama didn't turn out like Morgan Freeman. Of course, in 24, the black president was replaced by a woman president, in an attempt to set us up for Hillary, but it looks like that is just too much even for the stupid sheep...
Also notice how all the new Hollywood movies, turning on a dime from picturing Russians and affable, coarse but good natured are now setting them up as the villians... right on queue.
Very true. Most don't know about all the CIA backed companies working in hollywood. They are a major player with major funds, and have been for a long time.
Hollywood is the ultimate propaganda machine.
When was the last time you saw a movie that was negative on the CIA? Syriana comes closest and Clooney led that from start to finish. Got to give the guy credit, pretty ballsy.
Music was a psy-op. Read Inside The LC: The Strange but Mostly True Story of Laurel Canyon and the Birth of the Hippie Generation By Dave McGowan
http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr93.html.
Used to be able to read it all online. Now, he shows you the first chapter and then book ads.
if the directors don't play ball with the "authorities" then they don't get any access to anything outside the studio.
Did you ever actually watch that show? Most of the time the obvious "bad guy" was a patsy, with the "real" bad guy being either the highest level of power (President, SecDef) or the hidden hand.
But, but... in TV shows like "24", the POTUS is always beyond reproach and "doing the right thing". And Lone Hero types like Jack Bauer are always there to sacrifice themselves, to save the rest. And they get huge problems solved in 24 hrs, on a meager budget, few people and existing tools.
Yeah, but they can usually only get the job done by stepping outside the rules 'just this once' cuz, you know, the bad guys do it so we have to too.
ISIS reeks of a US / Western funded operation, trained and supported and using typical US PR propaganda and tactics, right down to the nice easy to remember name.
They come out of no where with mostly US equipment and arms and dollars all aquired thru very dubious means. And the media then 'Puff's' them up like only it can do (when directed of course).
Not to mention that the cast of ISIS characters is filled with operators or 'actors' that look as if they've all spent a little too much time in the make-up department.
This was all planned to disrupt the Iraq gov. which was in the process of going rogue. A puppet no more.
The simple objective is to split the country into factions and take over the key oil fields.
All so clear. Just another faux war to further the western geo-strategic energy goals.
I am just waiting for the ISIS soldiers capturring US Servicemen...and summarily executing them...and watch how the Obama Administration responds. /sarcasm
I just wonder if our CIA Operatives and "armed advisors" are really there to support the Maliki Government troops...or...to act as spies, collect intelligence, and hand it over to ISIS Leadership.
Thus Maliki will have the excuse to execute them.
It is not beyond the Obama Administration to sacrifice American Troops, CIA Operatives, and State Department personnel to achieve their geopolitical goals.
Remember Benghazi?
Congress, especially the "Republican" led Congress sure has seemed to have forgotten all about it. And then fools will tell me that there is a difference between Team Red and Team Blue?
Also keep in mind that there is an internal struggle going on within the US Gov. (and has been for a long time) where a certain faction effectively has control of the key intel as well as the power to act at the whim of any National Security directive, all in secret of course.
This is as much an internal war as it is an external war. Much remains behind the scenes though.
The truth always comes out eventually though. The question is will anyone do anything about it? Do people still care, or are we all resigned to living in this den of corruption forever?
Yeah we care. That is why we are here and posting.
We cannot even identify the Shadow Government that is running it.
Is this being done through the dictates of the Oil Industry? Or is it the Defense Industry? Or are they working, together, in cahoots with one another? How much does the Federal Reserve Bank have to do with it and are they at odds with the other Corporate interests?
It is difficult to combat the corrupt if one cannot identify whom one is combatting. The truth will make itself manifest but that usually happens when it is much too late and the goals have been achieved. That is when it becomes apparent as to whom benefitted and whom lost.
It is generally not as it seems on the surface. So what can you or I do but to write the requiem of a dying empire?
There are a bunch of interests at stake and I guess this what all those CFR/Trilateral/Bohemian Grove get-togethers are about - hammering out compromises to satisfy as many of the elite's wishes as possible.
And within these groups, some interests will have more sway than others. I imagine the banksters are right up there at the top, given that they have gradually come to own practically everything:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354.500-revealed--the-capital...
mind you, as long as they know what's coming they can position themselves to profit from it, so maybe all the Rothschilds et al ask is advance knowledge. Oh, and lay off Israel, of course.
Exactly! And Putin knows it, too. That's why this is another brilliant move on his part.
Yes and once there is an (Russian ) air force, ISIS is toast. Wide open desert country with no place to hide.
ISIS is almost certainly backed by a state with significant intelligence resources. Saudi Arabia is very possible, but the CIA and Mossad are much more likely.
Which isn't to say the rank and file jihadi idiots don't think they're fighting for Allah. The most useful of idiots thinks "God" wrote a book...
he did? is that why he sent more troops to Afghanistan?
I prefer the Ron Paul approach.
We marched in, we can just MARCH OUT.
@ The Phu: "not that it matters since we're now "north american energy independent..." for the next 5-10 years."
Note the key weasel-words "North American", not "American". W/o oil from Canada (Alberta's tar sands) or Mexico, the US would be in bad shape. And frikking Fracking alone won't get the job done, and certainly not 5-10 years from now.
Prognosis: Oil prices will continue to rise. Slowly. Thus continue to support the Petrodollar creation and everything that goes with it. Better trade that power boat for a sailboat, and that Tundra for a Prius. / Even though you really "need" that 1 MPG boat for fishing, and that Tundra for your daily commute, right? With logic like that, you'd* be perfect for a Gov job. /sarc
* Phu, I don't mean "you" specifically, but the types out there who actually think and talk that way.
Bush's fault.
I was going to blame it on Mr. Crowley and the Queen....
Of course it is......it happened during the Obowelmovement
no to come out as a Busch fan but if he would have been president now, the ISIS would be burning coal right now
Oh hell yes!
Bush has close ties with Saudi...no, they wouldn't.
Well yeah.....but they put Obama through college.....so what's your point?
Anybody who attributes anything positive to that piece of shit war criminal bush is a complete head up their ass moron! Just sayin'....
SD, how can you say that?
Daddy Bush and his minions are undoubtedly the one who came up with the idea of ISIS in the first place!
US.gov have become experts in suffering the appearance of incompetence while maximizing the art of obfuscation and vagueness while they relentlessly pursue their agenda.
The mask is off IMHO: from IRS "broken hard drives" to Thad Cochran getting help from the Democrats to ISIS "magically appearing from nowhere" to the US installing Nazis in Ukraine.
The illusion of the rule of law and justice in the US is not even paid lip service anymore. How more blatant could it get??
The police state is here, folks. Strap on tight as things are starting to get a bit too real...
Thanks, Obama
So, in one week the planes are delivered to the Iraqi government. That means in two weeks they will be added to the ISIL air force??
They are saying "two or three days". What is going on, it seems to me, is that Putin is responding to the Deep States chess move in ISIS (the new piece in the Global Game previously contained mostly to Syria and Ukraine) with a move of his own.
I'm sure the "used MiGs and Sukois" that show up in Iraq will come with Russian pilots who just happened to get a leave of absence from the Russian airforce.
Remember that the US game plan was to create a breakaway Iraqi military which would be unable to respond to ISIS, which I continue to believe is militarily weak (if they were not weak, they would have been more successful in Syria after all).
A relatively small number of sorties by Russian fighter bombers should be able to do quite a bit of damage to ISIS.
Does anyone believe that the CIA/SA/Mossad game planners anticipated ISIS having to withstand attacks from the Russians?
Then they can be used to overthrow Assad in Syria? It seems that the Russians are as brilliant as we are. LMAO.
"The US deluded us" ...Yeah, have you seen our stock market lately?? We deluded ourselves first!!
I find it hilarious that the USSA and the EUSSR sent F-16s and the EuroFighter to Eastern Europe to counter the "Russian threat". If an armed conflict were to break out, those pilots would have to be either;
1) Suicidal
2) Blinded by self-confidence
3) Blinded by a faux over-confidence in their equipment
4) A combination of the above
The Eurofighters would simply be target practice, and the F-16 *could* be foremiddable, but the SU-27 as a air superiority fighter is just the best thing. If the US was serious about "defending" Europe -- they'd ship over the F-22. Seeing as they sent equipment a decade older than the SU-27 -- it tells us way more than the rhetoric does.
you find the "rattling of sabers" hilarious? sorry, that's the way the world functions. Russia intensified their presence on the borders, so NATO shifted airplanes. That was sadly necessary and a complete waste of resources at the same time
"If an armed conflict were to break out" is a completely different affair. Fact is the modern/standard multirole fighter is not a military craft in the strict sense, and more a kind of "military police" thing
similar to the difference between the Navy and the Coastguard. You don't judge Coastguard vessels on the basis of what worth the would have in war. You judge them on the basis of their function during peace
Well, if they are just there to fly around, why not give them Cessnas and BB guns?
I was going to add the example from ancient times between light troops and heavy troops, or skirmisher and troops-of-the-line
Cessnas are used in this role. In various countries. The problem is they don't look impressive and they don't have the "legs". A bit like a Military Policemen on a bike insted of a jeep
This whole act is simply misdirection. The real game is being played in Syria.
Our "Ally" Israel, should have sent over a few of the JSF, it "purchased" from USA. I mean, geez, they should be very, very scared of the Muslim threat (cough, Kurdistan oil, cough). It might actually fly well in a very dry environment. They could always bring aboard a bottle of oxygen to keep from passing out.
Fancy Jet. Flying high and free.
With no loiter time, and so expensively.
Someone really needs to look up Burt Rutan and design a low-cost of manufacture and operate anti-insurgency aircraft.
***
Well they have. The mudfighter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scaled_Composites_ARES
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG9LlHcX8lg
We already have an excellent close-air support, anti-insurgency airplane. It's called the A-10. But, as I have previously pointed out, it is entirely too cheap, effective, reliable, and easy to repair for today's military.
I agree the A10 is the perfect plane, Rutan can take his little playboy curved airplanes and do a photo spread in popular science where they belong.
Rutan is a genius.
You'd think Iran would be watching these videos and mass-producing something similar.
Off topic...but we have a second bank run in Bulgaria in less than a week...
Second Bulgarian Bank Hit by Run on DepositsWonder what country is next?
Meanwhile, the Swiss are requesting the Chinese to let them deal in yuan too....How many countries will China bail?
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-and-chinese-strengthen-financial-coope...?
Has any developed country's foreign policy ever been as fucked up as our has been, in recent years?
Haus, now I'm curious. On what do you base your criticism of the Eurofigher?
Just like the F-22 Raptor, lots of articles on that worthless skydancing P.O.S.
Other than its ridiculous name?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/03/eurofighter_nao_analysis/
If you are a euro, pray that you are never in the ring with, "EuroFighter" the magnificient.... Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee....
Hi,
The Eurofighter as it stands today is less than a decade old. It is outclassed by American aircraft of the same age, 20 year old Russian aircraft perform equally with it, and oh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_PAK_FA
Hai there!
excellent craft. great future possible, for this... airplane still in prototype mode. you have to compare the Typhoon with the existing generation, not the next one
and because there are only 50 prototypes, final costs are still unknown
The FA enters service in 2016. Its not that "far off" and yes it has excellent potential.
But I hate to break it to you -- the Eurorfighter isn't due for a makeover for the better part of a decade. So right now you have the BRAND NEW EuroFighter which is on part with the JSF, and F22, as well as 30 year old F-16s and 20 year old Soviet built SU-27s.
Congrats.
A well piloted Mig 21 Bis would fly rings around these over-teched flying engines...
Pierre Sprey and two colonels in the USAF quit the F-15 program because it was getting big and expensive. They created the F-16 and A-10. The F-16 probably the USA's best fighter still. Sprey said the Mig 21 would easily take out the junk F-35. The F-222 is not much better.
you are more right re the birds than the other folks.
I would not want to be in an f-22 [or f-18 or f-19 - remember those?] facing a first or second line russian jet...
particularly anywhere near Russian AA.
If the us could dominate the skies over ukraine it would have.
I am an euro, and I am reminded this week of the Battles of Ypres. It's the centenary memorial
and so I prefer to avoid this kind of frontal confrontations that have no result except an immense butcher's bill
meanwhile, there are many ways to skin a cat or blast an airplane out of the sky. air superiority is vital for the attacker, not necessarily for the defender
or do you propose an excursion to Moscow? to which I would say: take a commercial plane, and go in peace
All these wars are by the elites and bankster families in Europe and other places in the world. It is all designed to make money and murder the best and brightest. They did that over and over with Germany and England. Kill off the best young men who actually might stand up against the criminals running the show. Sheer madness.
they're remembering the battle of ypres a few months early though, right? battle of ypres was oct-nov 1914?
come on, the article is from 2011 and is a bit anemic. The biggest beef there was late delivery. And what is wrong with the name Typhoon? It matches the ground-attack Tornado
I was referring to the "EuroFighter" name.
Ok,
http://theaviationist.com/2012/02/08/f35-typhoon/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1047418/MoD-tries-offload-fleet-costly-Eurofighter-jets.html
And you cleary didn't read all 4 pages of the report. Its a horrible price/performance aircraft.
This is what happens when you have this nonsense "European Unity" building fighter aircraft. "To be fair we have to have production of the various parts spread out across the contintent." Pick a country, and build it there. Keep it simple, as the complex build something in Italy, and then ship it to France and then to the UK and then to Germany and then back to the UK is just stupid, and makes spare parts (as mentioned in the article) quite difficult to come by.
all this "nonsense" which produces the Airbus (and it used to produce parts of the Space Shuttle)
no european country has the size to compete alone in this. what do your propose? that we give it up and buy from... yes, from who?
btw, the production of the F-16 was spread too across a (different) continent. welcome to the "world of political pork". any serious proposals?
Yes,
Building programs that were possible 30 years ago;
- Harrier
- Mirage
and building programs that were possible 70 years ago;
- ME-262
- WWII Flying Wing
would be completely impossible to replicate today. No way a country with 80 million people today could do what the same country with 65 million people did 70 years ago. I concede your superior argument on the subject. /sarc
no, not impossible. I start to think you have a problem with all things related to "European Unity", though. Is this the "itch you can't scratch"?
if you were a full German, you'd possibly realize the political cost of any european country building a fighter jet alone. which includes to whom you can export the damn things. which is the prime avenue of realizing a modest amount of return-to-scale, which then reduces costs-per-unit
I hate the yoking of dramatically different people, at these various peoples' expense for the benefit of the very few. This is exactly what the EU and EMZ is. If there was a healthy debate on the subject before Europe went down this path of federalisation, then it wouldn't bother me so much. But instead -- they shove it down everyones throats, and then whomever opposes it is labeled Nazis or Racists -- essentially eliminating dissent within the political spectrum. But no -- the only 3 votes on the increased consolidation of power within Brussels (the vehicle for "European Unity") have been all "no," but hey -- fuck the people right? You know better.
Explain to me the political costs, and how that reduces costs per unit (as the Eurofighter is the most expensive air superiority fighter -- ever built.)
@Haus. simple: the less Germany is integrated, the more the rest of Europe is suspicious of Germany. the more Big G is married to Europe, and cooperates on a friendly, constructive manner with it's brethens, the more it can lead with models, like ordo-liberalism, the BuBa model and German-style federalism
I fear you missed a lot of the debate part because of your youth (and in part your foreignness). What you seem to ask for would be only possible if Big G would adopt a different model, like Switzerland's neutrality. And the rest of Europe would still fret
You were not around in 1989, were you? The deal was crystal clear: Germany might re-unite - thanks to european support - but only for a price: integration. We europeans had to bargain hard for German reunification, against Russian, American and British skepsis (and requests for bribes). And the French, Italian and BeNeLux price and deal was this above
"Danach lass uns Alle streben, brüderlich, Hand in Hand"
I am all for integration -- of similar peoples and cultures. I am all for that. It is an economically reasonable proposition. Until you, or some of your friends in Brussels can quantify "integration" -- it remains a political ideal -- nothing more -- nothing less.
Moreover, of what business was it of Russia, France (who threw the biggest fit on Reunification), the UK and the US on German reunification? (The correct hint is zero.) If both groups of people wanted to unify, then the idea that Germany had to ask "permission" from anyone expect their people -- then you are attempting to strap down and marginalize the will of a group of people, because, of unquantifiable political posturing. This is wrong. It is the same nonsense that is going on in Brussels today. It amazes me that "Europeans" are so anti-democracy when it comes to matters of the EU and integration.
And there has never been a debate on European Integration. Since the Treaty of Rome in 1950 -- this has been an ever growing snowball - without the consent of the respective populations. When I tell people here I am anti "European Unity" people look at me like I am telling them the sky is green or that I am an extra-terrestrial. There was a vote on the formation of a "common trade zone" -- but never on the monstrosity that we have now.
Fuck the rest of Europe and their frets. If Europe (as a landmass and not a political entity) can remain democratic, and prosperous -- you do not need the EU or the EMZ to prevent a war.
I would love to see Germany copy/paste Switzerland. The Swiss do it right, have a model that works, and still these idiots in Brussels keep trying to reinvent the wheel.
now you are throwing a juvenile temper tantrum, and showing that you have less understanding of the situation, both past and present, than I thought
note your own words: "When I tell people here I am anti "European Unity" people look at me like I am telling them the sky is green or that I am an extra-terrestrial."
how do you think they would behave if you would tell them your "Fuck the rest of Europe and their frets"?
In a freaking still occupied and still spied-upon Germany that lost two freaking world wars? THAT DEAL WAS TO GET THE RUSSIANS OUT OF GERMANY. Yes, the French helped to that
and your "...there has never been a debate on European Integration. Since the Treaty of Rome in 1950 -- this has been an ever growing snowball - without the consent of the respective populations" is pure Anglo-phone propaganda reminiscent of the Daily Telegraph. You obviously never read the SPD, FDP or CDU/CSU electoral manifestos, for example. I wonder if you even read mainstream German newspapers, at this point
I thought you were after a serious discussion. You just utterly discredited yourself in my eyes. I think I might need a pause from ZH. over and out
Before you get too full of yourself -- and say I "discredited myself" think about this situation realistically.
1) all major party manifestos were a) in favor of ever deeper eu integration. There was never a party in Germany since its founding in 48 that has been against integration. I dare you to find me a party manifesto, publication or something similar that goes against this thought process. B) the news papers here all align them with one of two sides : how much eu integration do we want "a lot" or "even more" the AfD is the first party to I against the grain like this since --- ever.
2) every country should look out for their own interests first and foremost. So if others have a problem with it -- tough shit. The idea that countries should intentionally restrain themselves for the good of others is a horrible idea. Competition and democracy are both good things. However here in the bnd -- there has been precious little democracy with regard to the later on certain rather important topics.
3) the telegraph is a great news paper. Don't be bitter AEP keeps wiping the floor with much eu dogma. But hey -- when you lack things of substance to say -- ad hominums and changing the subject is always credited.
4) I have a very £\¥\$\€ view of the situation. I wrote a fucking masters thesis on the topic. Just because I couldn't give two brown shits about eu political correctness or solidarity doesn't mean what I am saying is incorrect or there for you to attack me personally. So while we can disagree -- I just want you to understand that many of your views are influenced by political idealism and not economic pragmatism.
I am all for integration -- of similar peoples and cultures. I am all for that. It is an economically reasonable proposition. Until you, or some of your friends in Brussels can quantify "integration" -- it remains a political ideal -- nothing more -- nothing less.
Moreover, of what business was it of Russia, France (who threw the biggest fit on Reunification), the UK and the US on German reunification? (The correct hint is zero.) If both groups of people wanted to unify, then the idea that Germany had to ask "permission" from anyone expect their people -- then you are attempting to strap down and marginalize the will of a group of people, because, of unquantifiable political posturing. This is wrong. It is the same nonsense that is going on in Brussels today. It amazes me that "Europeans" are so anti-democracy when it comes to matters of the EU and integration.
And there has never been a debate on European Integration. Since the Treaty of Rome in 1950 -- this has been an ever growing snowball - without the consent of the respective populations. When I tell people here I am anti "European Unity" people look at me like I am telling them the sky is green or that I am an extra-terrestrial. There was a vote on the formation of a "common trade zone" -- but never on the monstrosity that we have now.
Fuck the rest of Europe and their frets. If Europe (as a landmass and not a political entity) can remain democratic, and prosperous -- you do not need the EU or the EMZ to prevent a war.
I would love to see Germany copy/paste Switzerland. The Swiss do it right, have a model that works, and still these idiots in Brussels keep trying to reinvent the wheel.
And don't forget to get the Swiss to design your submarines
Then you will have the world by the short and curly....right?
Swiss designed submarines? Depth record breaking submarines? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathyscaphe_Trieste
French engineering, Spanish financing, and British manufacturing. What could possibly go wrong?
+2
Where does one start?
against prejudice... there are few weapons. oh, yes, I forgot. truth helps. France has some excellent engineers, Spain has some excellent banks, and Britain has some excellent manifacturing capacities
Too bad all the excellent French engineers just design tires, and thats it.
Too bad Spain's excellent banks are now part of the Euro-Ecosystem -- which when there is a capital call -- bankrupts even the most conservative on Spanish lending institutions. (Although they do have good credit unions -- totally different beast)
Too bad Britians excellent manufacturing facilities are all owned, managed and operated be either the Germans or the Indians.
Ghordo -- throw in the towel on the EU and the EMZ, come join the dark side. The ideological consistency we bring to the table is oddly soothing.
didn't you just recently vote for Alternative für Deutschland? A mildly pro-EU (and anti-EUR) party? and... LOL... why should I come over to the dark side? I thought I was the evil, dark-side proponent of the EUR
nevertheless, thanks, but no, thanks. oddly soothing ideological consistency is anathema, for me. I vastly prefere jarring reality-based facts, even when they expose the full, stark inconsistency of human behaviour, which includes politics and "real-politik"
Since you are such the purveyor of "cold hard facts" -- reconcile the competitiveness gap within the EMZ -- and explain to me why this is a better model than a 2 or 3 currency union? See, I've been reading your posts for almost 2 years now. You only pay attention to facts when they agree with your point of view. We have a term of that in the english language, its called a "self-confirming bias."
You, as well as other habitually fail to recognize the competitiveness gap between the north and the south, and the fact that the French and the Germans are too different to share a currency without a transfer union. You have pointed out over and over how "great" German is doing now vs the other countries. You habitually fail to look at average GDP growth from 1960 to 1999 of being ca., 2.5% whereas since the introduction of the Euro it has been 0.8%.
And while you might be totally happy with the neutering of Germany for the "benefit" of everyone else (aka Belgium) -- I am not. I would much prefer a system that allows everyone to be prosperous, which the current system most definitely is not.
I am writing on ZH since 3 years. With an EUR sign avatar. Amid commenters that were sure the eurozone would break up within weeks
ok, an abbreviated version:
- If the French and the Germans are too different to share a currency... how could they both base their currencies on gold, for much longer time than on fiat?
- Do we have a transfer union? Where would the old currencies be, now, without the EUR? Is Germany currently not prosperous? Didn't the whole thing start with Goldman Sachs helping various sovereigns, in particular Greece, with hiding debt?
- What options do we have, amid this re-arrangement of geopolitics and the big currencies' wars?
- How did the 19th Century handle competitiveness gaps? What is happening now, in the South?
And in particular, how can you talk about neutering Germany? It's marrying Germany to Europe that is happening
QUESTION 1:
Simple, the French, when the needed more money would change their conversion rate to allow the "creation" of more money to fund the state. It is for the same reason that the Latin Monetary Union (think EMZ but 150 year earlier) failed.
QUESTION 2:
Who cares!? Leave it to the people of those old currencies to sort out their financial issues. Let the Greeks manage the Greek economy, let the French manage the French economy, the Spanish the Spanish, etc., etc., it is not the "wealthy" country's responsibilities to make sure everyone on the continent can manage their finances. (aka, give them free stuff.)
Moreover, yes, the current collateral requirements for the backing of sovereign debt is a transfer union, as it allows the transfer of risk from the individual nations onto the currency union as a whole. Then there is the half trillion Euros that have been lent to the south of Europe for 30 years. (el oh el)
Sure Germany is prosperous. This isn't the question I posed to you. The correct question is "Is Germany as prosperous as it would have been without the Euro?" You have your rhetoric -- I have annual GDP growth rates that tells me no. I am sure you have heard of compounding (compound interest), its a form of exponential growth. The German economy from 1960 - 1999 (last year of a free floating dMark) on average of 2,5%, whereas since 1999 its been 0,8%. The difference between the two is 1,7%. So, since 1999 its been fifteen years. To make things simple, lets assume German GDP was 100 in 1999. At traditional growth rates (which are statistically significant) in 2014 the German economy should be 144.8298, or almost a 45% increase over what it was in 1999. However, given the actual growth rate of 0,8% it is 112.6959, or almost 13% So rounding in your benefit 44-13 is 31%. The German economy has sacrificed 31% of its potential size for this stupid concept you habitually fail to accept is an abject failure and the outright abuse of the northern European work ethic.
Question 3;
Split it in half.
Question 4:
In the 19th Century -- it was handled by currency devaluation. Its why you can get 19th Century Lira with denominations going all the way up to 1,000,000,000 Lira notes. The French were just as slutty.
Question 5:
See basic math from Question 2. It is neutering Germany, pure and simple. It is neutering the Netherlands, Finland and Austria. Annualized growth rates prove this. Your analogy would work -- if you had a Brain surgeon marry a Hartz IV recipient, and the recipient talks the Dr. into working part time and forgoing promotion opportunities so said Brain surgeon can sit at home and baby sit the halfwit.
Pragmatism and being pro-European do not go hand in hand. Sorry to say.
Actually the €Euro has suited Germany very well, at the expense of other Eurozone countries, such as mine; Ireland. If we had our own currency, we could have acted on interest rates during the boom and cooled things down. As it was, Eurozone rates were set for Germany's requirements. They needed low rates while their economy was sluggish. It was these low rates that drove the property boom in Ireland and elsewhere in the Ez.
Additionally, if Germany were not in the Eurozone over the last number of years since their economy has come back, their growth would surely have been much less, as their currency would have been considerably more expensive. As it is, the broke countries like Ireland, have been paying the price of keeping the German exchange rate lower than it would be, while for us, it is higher than it should be.
Did you miss the retarded German growth rates since the Euro came into existance? The Euro has sucked for everyone -- Germany included.
Not just tyres.
Think Excocet anti ship missile for a start and the Mistral class helicopter carrier ships the Russians are about to take delivery of.
Can't remember British Aerospace being taken over or operated by the Germans or Indians.
British Aerospace?
lol ok. Tell me -- when you send people to the ISS -- on which rocket platform do you use?
not that i like the french, but its the russians that are buying FRENCH made mistral assault ships as we speak. you look stupid when you are pulled too far into any one ideological corner.............
I like to beat up on the French as much as the next guy (they are such easy targets), but lets me fair about this.
The best software in the world for system engineering aircraft construction is from Dassault-Breguet - everybody uses it.
Of course, that might also explain why the F22 and F35 are such crap!
Not to vurry Morrie my boy, its all a fiendish British plot.....
Currently, a German Pope and an Italian Central Banker. What could poss...oh, wait...
The worst piece of shit is the F-35 and the F-22 is not far behind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxDSiwqM2nw
Hopefully there are some Russians on the ground making life hard for Isis and Blackwater/Xe/Academi/Monsanto/Dumb Stupid Fux for Hire. Those rent a mercenaries were at Bundy Ranch in Nevada and they would have been destroyed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLHvBjsDK9Y
Bundy Ranch and Blackwater/Xe/JerkOffs For Hire
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/04/blackwater-mercs-in-blm-uni...
Right now the US technojunk (F22 & F-35) is inferior. The military wanted a outragiously priced multipurpose fighter and ended up with a pig with wings.
http://www.military.com/video/aircraft/jet-fighters/f-35-inferior-to-rus...
It doesn't matter who's building better weapons of death. Both sides are war profiteers.
And Russians are smart enough to sell them the cheapest solution that will work against ISIS, w/o offering their latest gear to capability analysis by the DOD/MIC. Note that long before the US/Israel get into a hot war with Iran or Russia directly, they want to study the capability, limits and weaknesses of their weapons systems. And what a better way to do it, but via these proxy wars.
Maybe Iraq needs SISI* to fight ISIS. Much like matter and antimatter colliding and annihilating each other in an explosion of pure energy. And maybe SISI can take over Kuwait. Not that it matters to "North America's energy independence", if people are fighting for "free-dumb".
* Shiite Islamists Save Iraq.
"God willing within one week this force will be effective and will destroy the terrorists' dens," he told BBC Arabic."
Hahaha, what a nutter! One week to deliver combat aircraft, train it's pilots AND be effective!
Buying and operating military jets takes a little bit more than quickly flipping through the manual (in Russian I resume) and pressing the "go" button.
UNLESS of course, these used Russian figher jets come fully equiped with, say...Russian military advisors acting as pilots...
Dude all they need to do is allow say 5 Syrian pilots and deliver 5 SU-25 Frog Foots. It is a Russian A-10.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtAThLpxmxw
This little bastard plane is like a tank but it is also quick and can dog fight. The video shows US crews walking the flightline aka runway to pick up crap. Russian plans can fly off of junk airfields. They are stirdy planes.
You hit a F-35 with a .22 round and the plane will catch on fire.
after-Burn
Putin - Obomber 3 - 0 (at least)
are you kiddin? it's more like 30 - 0 by now
It was a soccer score.
Putin keeps saying 'checkmate', Obungler just eats another checker.
Putin is the only one who will stand up to the scumbag except Sheriff Joe Arpaio and maybe Edward Snowden.
Most American men are coward midgets like General Betray-us scumbag traitor.
And you've done...?
And you've done?
speaking of americans being brainwashed...
It's all fun...till someone gets hurt
The US government (as opposed to the US people) is so desperate to create a proxy war that they have thrown their own puppet government under the bus.
.. and is not even hiding that it is concurrently arming both sides, if only the MSM cared to report on this
Nobel Prize Winner winning friends and creating allies everyday:
Maliki’s rhetoric toward the Obama administration has become increasingly bitter since he held talks with Secretary of State John Kerry on Monday. On Wednesday, he labelled the US calls for a “national unity” government as plans for a “coup.” Everything points to Shiite political factions using the July 1 sitting of the Iraqi parliament to assemble another Shiite-dominated government, whether headed by Maliki or another figure. Most Sunni politicians will not attend, and representatives of the Kurdish nationalist parties that rule Iraq’s Kurdish north as an autonomous region have declared that they will most likely boycott the parliament.
Yesterday, in an interview with the BBC’s Arabic service, Maliki denounced the US for failing to provide Iraq with the F-16 jet fighters that it ordered after the US military withdrawal in 2011. “I’ll be frank and say that we were deluded when we signed the contract,” Maliki said. “We should have sought to buy other jet fighters, like British, French and Russian, to secure the air cover for our forces. If we had air cover, we would have averted what had happened.”
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/06/27/iraq-j27.html