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Bitcoin Vs Gold - The Infographic

Tyler Durden's picture




 

While Marc Faber has said "I will never sell my gold," he also noted "I like the idea of Bitcoin," and the battle between the 'alternative currencies' continues. The following infographic provides a succinct illustration of the similarities and differences between gold and bitcoin.

 

Please include attribution to www.jmbullion.com with this graphic.

Bitcoin vs. Gold

 

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Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:21 | 4904250 Duc888
Duc888's picture

 

 

 

it's all fun and games until it's been hacked.

 

In the same vein, metals can be taxed too.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:21 | 4904251 gh0atrider
gh0atrider's picture

NNNEVC

         CARN BITCOIN BE H@cKED!!

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:25 | 4904255 StacksOnStacks
StacksOnStacks's picture

I liked Bitcoin back before these shit-shows like Maxcoin and Dogecoin popped up, then there was a site that will create your coin for you.  No, no, no, no, this isn't right.  I can't just make Gold and Silver appear.  I'll stick with my Ag and Au as well as some Cu every now and then in the form of Pennies.

 

ps. I'll take Tier 2 over Tier 3 anyday!

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:26 | 4904262 gh0atrider
gh0atrider's picture

Bitcoin is the crypto-currency.  These usurpers are nothing.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:32 | 4904274 StacksOnStacks
StacksOnStacks's picture

What about Quark?  Quark transactions are a fraction of the time that Bitcoin is.  http://www.quarkcoins.com/bitcoin-vs-quarkcoin.html

 

I'll pass.

 

ps.  I know my shit.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:38 | 4904298 gh0atrider
gh0atrider's picture

Quark ain't got nothin'

And gh0atrider knows his shit too 'cos his hooves deep in it.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:40 | 4904306 Publicus
Publicus's picture

Bitcoin and relatives are the new currencies of the future.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 20:04 | 4904365 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Bitcoin is part of the plan to get rid of tangible money.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 20:06 | 4904375 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

BitCRAP doesn't shine in the moonlight when the power goes out or a hacker empties out your account while they are half the world away and you cant pick them off with your rifle.

Please lets stop this bitcoin debate because its rather lame.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 22:19 | 4904638 Gaius Frakkin' ...
Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

The fallacy is that one alternative currency is better than the other. Cryptos and PMs both have different strengths and weaknesses and anyone who's an adult can see that.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 23:06 | 4904723 DirtyWilly
DirtyWilly's picture

Thank you Tyler's for finally publishing something on a more neutral plane about Bitcoin.  Any step towards liberty is the right step.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 06:16 | 4905055 Zeroexperience2010
Zeroexperience2010's picture

There is one very important point that has been forgotten: Gold is trully anonymous, bitcoin is not and keeps a trace of all transactions.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 07:47 | 4905111 Took Red Pill
Took Red Pill's picture

I think our gov't knows who's stackin'

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 08:32 | 4905146 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

I think claims of boating accidents will not work with the man.....

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 10:54 | 4905273 shitco.in
shitco.in's picture

I lost my private keys in a boating accident recently.  

Boats + Paper Wallets = Bad

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 10:03 | 4905207 soontobeblocked
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"The fallacy is that one alternative currency is better than the other. Cryptos and PMs both have different strengths and weaknesses and anyone who's an adult can see that."

Spot on. 

Additionally, for the author to conflate gold with Btc as currencies demonstrates either ignorance or mendacity.

Most "stackers" do not trade it; they view it as a store of wealth.  I can't purchase a "pizza" over the Internet using gold. 

Having said that, for most of its existence, the majority of Btc have not changed hands.  The statistic "number of bitcoin days destroyed" has made that clear since Day 1.  Few, however, tout it as a store of wealth.  Instead they tout it as an inexpensive facilitator of transactions.  (Perhaps those long-term holders are the pumpers who want everyone else to routinely transact in it in order to increase the value of their own holdings.  That makes them mendacious.  I don't see the same from gold pumpers).

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 14:37 | 4905595 koncaswatch
koncaswatch's picture

+100 You nailed it; both gold and Btc comments are dead on. I'm a stacker. I could be a Btc trader one day, just not today. I think Btc is a trial ballon for a future paperless fiat with infinite traceability.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 10:23 | 4905232 TuPhat
TuPhat's picture

Gold is not actually currency.  It's value is intrinsic.  It can be worth a lot or it can be worth nothing but it isn't currency.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 14:45 | 4905603 koncaswatch
koncaswatch's picture

Technically gold, silver and copper are currencies. It's just that coin is not now going to trade at the fiat of the realm face value; unless of course, one is desparate or a fool.

Nothing has an intrinsic monetary value. We that stack PMs are speculating that they will hold a value in the future but have no idea what that value will be. The value of gold is established on the day of the trade. All else is speculation.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 10:09 | 4905195 soontobeblocked
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"Bitcoin is the crypto-currency. These usurpers are nothing"

Please recall the threads earlier this year in which you said that you were out of Btc and that Ltc was the way to go. 

For reference, those were often the same threads in which you claimed to have put your family into Btc at the peak while at the same time buying into Ltc yourself.  I didn't believe you, and presumed that you were blustering (again) and claiming that you weren't suffering from the plummet in value. 

You said then that Ltc was the way to go.

How can you retain credibility while having posted (and still posting) so much faith-based bullshit regarding Btc and Satoshi and using hundreds of analogies to religious belief and to faith-based organizations...and now call the others 'usurpers' (while those others include the smae Ltc that you were once touting).

That this thread has so few comments is a reassuring testament that the Beanie Baby fad is coming to a close; the efforts of shameless pumpers notwithstanding.  Maybe then it will fall back into the dustbin and be relegated to its proper use.  It will also find more effective and efficient cc's passing it by, and when that happens I will be gleeful to see all shameless pumpers lose their shirts and jump out of their virtual windows.

Schadenfreud and Justice often travel in the same vehicle.

 

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:50 | 4904334 TVP
TVP's picture

One cannot just "make" cryptocurrencies appear, either.

They have to be "mined" from solving complex computer algorithms using high-end graphics cards or ASICs.  

Crypto is finite (with the exception of infinitecoin, another worthless altcoin), and therefore non-inflationary.  

 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 18:31 | 4905995 malek
malek's picture

cannot make cryptocurrencies appear?

Why, is there a limited number of complex computer algorithms?

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 00:16 | 4906501 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Yep, Bitcoin is open source and there are an unlimited number of possible cryptocurrencies based on copies of the software.  One cannot, however, engineer liquidity.

Here you go: http://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/assets/4679887/altcoin_share.png

As a new crypto investor would you pick some tiny slice to invest your hard earned money into or go with the main currency with the strongest mining security and more accepting merchants/other investors?  This is called "let the market figure it out." Bizarre, I know.  As we can see from the chart, class, people have been investing in Bitcoin over all altcoins combined at a rate approx. 20-to-1.  This could change in the future but I believe it would require some particular reason that I just don't see currently.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 00:40 | 4904854 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

 All my crypto currency holdings are in Kreigerrands!

http://www.reddit.com/r/ArcherFX/comments/1zi786/kriegerrand_if_dogecoin...

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 04:45 | 4905009 shouldvekilledthem
shouldvekilledthem's picture

I liked Bitcoin back before these shit-shows like Maxcoin and Dogecoin popped up

I started to hate gold because silver and platinum appeared...(facepalm)

Altcoins can easily be avoided. (eg: don't buy/mine any) 


 

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:22 | 4904253 gh0atrider
gh0atrider's picture

We love Bitcoin and all of us here on Zerohedge love you Satoshi!!!

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:35 | 4904284 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

Anyone who buys bitcoin instead of gold/silver is a total fool.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:37 | 4904293 gh0atrider
gh0atrider's picture

gh0atrider was not aware you had to choose between them?

Do you have to choose between golds and silvers too?

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 20:13 | 4904393 CH1
CH1's picture

was not aware you had to choose between them

Precisely.

Gold, silver and BTC work together beautifully. Us versus them is gorilla thinking.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 04:46 | 4905010 shouldvekilledthem
shouldvekilledthem's picture

I'm glad not everyone is a retard here.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 13:50 | 4905535 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

CH1    Gold, silver and BTC work together beautifully. Us versus them is gorilla thinking.

---

shouldvekilledthem   I'm glad not everyone is a retard here.

---

Except there is a little principle called opportunity costs that escapes both of you.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 20:12 | 4904390 TVP
TVP's picture

Let's do a little logic experiment.

Say you and I have $1000 dollars to invest, back in Feb. 2013.

I put my money into bitcoin (~$11/coin, or about 100 coins).

You put yours into silver (~$30/coin, or about 33 coins).

Fast forward to today.

I made about $60,000.

You lost about $130.

 

So from a contrarian perspective, your point makes total sense.  

 

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 22:40 | 4904681 Who was that ma...
Who was that masked man's picture

Let's say I invest that $1000 into gold in 1950 and you try to buy bitcoins on the same day.  Everyone would just laugh at you and take your money and today, you'd have zip and be livin' on the street corner while my gold would be worth gazillions.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 21:12 | 4906250 Haole
Haole's picture

Let's say that makes no sense at all and there are 7 other cognitive failures on here that think that was worth upvoting. 

So, that's what ZH has become... People used to come here to escape that kind of idiocy and now it's rewarded. 

 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 06:29 | 4905062 cocky roach
cocky roach's picture

That's a very convenient timeframe you chose. I'm sure the same case can be made about a number of stocks (vs gold) if you choose your dates right.

I want to see how Bitcoin does in the future, when competition against other cryptocurrencies become more fierce. I don't really see a reason why Bitcoin should be much more valuable than any other coin.

For now, I don't care how much people are paying for any kind of shitcoin.

I'll take cryptos seriously when we see some get commodity backing. Now that's a game changer.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 21:04 | 4906235 Haole
Haole's picture

You criticize a factual timeline and real math from TVP rather than the guy above you who justifies his brilliant failure at math and exaggeration with an unreasoned absurdity altogether?  Convenient or not, it is what it is.

Bitcoin is backed by a significant amount of human capital and altruistic motivation, innovation and inginuity akin to the internet build-out itself, the most powerful computer network on the planet and the fact it is valueable as an asset and as currency to more and more people every day.  Currency is but one of many of the uses of crypto blockchain technology

The fact people are upvoting you guys is pretty hilarious because both of you guys obviously know nothing about Bitcoin and the guy above you just summarily spat-up on himself. 

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 07:23 | 4906753 cocky roach
cocky roach's picture

I'm impressed that you know so much about what I "obviously" don't know.

I'm not criticizing the factual timeline itself, but rather pointing out that the same comparison can be made with many other assets. I don't really believe that gold vs bitcoin comparisons are of any value, as they are very very different. I believe both have their uses and both can have a place in a portfolio.

Bitcoin is backed by nothing, since motivation, ingenuity and altruism aren't actually assets (and I don't know what you mean by "human capital"). Bitcoin's price has to do mostly with speculation, since most of Bitcoin trading is done by speculators who expect the price to move up or down. A fraction of trading has to do with people actually interested in purchasing goods and services. With Bitcoin's huge volatility, I also believe it's use as a currency is limited.

I'm glad you find the upvoting hilarious. I enjoy it as well.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 22:59 | 4904709 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Thanks, that's a strong argument, I will sell all my coins now.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 00:38 | 4904864 PaperWillBurn
PaperWillBurn's picture

Anyone who doesn't own some of both is a fool.

 

 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 01:51 | 4904928 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

500% YoY fool.  Best performing asset 4 years in a row fool.

Somebody please bet me 5 oz. silver that Bitcoin's price won't double to $1200 in the next 6 months.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 11:06 | 4905289 shitco.in
shitco.in's picture

6 months?  I give it 30 days. 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 18:49 | 4906037 RichardParker
RichardParker's picture

"500% YoY fool..."

If this happened with anything else like say real estate, tech stocks, historically correct classic cars, tulips, beanie babies, etc. this would be called a bubble, no?

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 19:31 | 4906097 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Bitcoin has experienced multiple bubbles, each top priced exponentially higher than the previous top, each post-bubble low higher than the previous bubble's high.  Bitcoin is an entirely new asset class and the market's saturation demand has not been discovered yet.  

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg730ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zvzl

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 20:42 | 4906212 Haole
Haole's picture

That's because most people have never even heard of a technological adoption curve and where Bitcoin is on it's trip if it is to be adopted by mainstream consciousness globally. 

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 12:26 | 4907131 Me.Grimlock
Me.Grimlock's picture

I'm neither for nor against the bitcoin concept, but I read this just this morning, FWIW:

 

http://www.coindesk.com/california-governor-grants-bitcoin-legal-money-s...

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 10:45 | 4905266 meghaljani
meghaljani's picture

I bought bitcoins last year and made six times my money so far. How much did you make on your gold? But I just forgot that bitcoins do not shine in the moonlight, and I will not be able to use them during the nuclear attack when the grid goes down. 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 13:52 | 4905542 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

meghaljani    I bought bitcoins last year and made six times my money

---

You made what? I thought bitcoin was a currency. Oh yea, it's priced in dollars. In other words Bitcon is a dollar derivative.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 16:50 | 4905821 meghaljani
meghaljani's picture

Gold and silver are also priced in dollars. 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 18:36 | 4906002 malek
malek's picture

 made six times my money so far

Hmm, I love the smell of basking in imaginary (non-realized) profits in the afternoon.
Now tell us why shitcoin could never go to zero!

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 19:09 | 4906067 RichardParker
RichardParker's picture

If you like your bitcoins, you can keep your bitcoins.

 

I wonder how long it would take for the supine court to rule them to be unconstitional,  or a WMD?  Maybe an executive order making possesion or use of them a felony?  Maybe something along the lines of executive order 6102 (for bitcoins) with the buzz words national security thrown in for good measure?  Government contractors/NSA causing another Mt Gox?

 

On the other hand, if those airport scanners that the TSA have are powerful enough to see the skidmarks and holes in my underwear, I'm sure they can find gold on your person.  I don't think that's a coincidence either...

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 23:13 | 4904738 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Whatever happened to that goat roper from a few months ago that was humping BTC every chance? 

That you?

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 08:11 | 4909084 cooky puss
cooky puss's picture

@gh0atrider Dude, stop making a fool of yourself, this is getting embarassing.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:25 | 4904257 Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

Iran will gladly accept bitcoins for its oil.....

 

NOT!

 

BaaaWaaahaaaaa

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 20:04 | 4904367 crazytechnician
crazytechnician's picture

NOT! YET !


BaaaWaaahaaaaa

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 21:44 | 4904594 gh0atrider
gh0atrider's picture

gh0atrider thinks Bitcoin is the nuclear option for countries to use regarding currency.  Once one country endorses its use, life will never be the same again.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:33 | 4904273 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  We had this discussion about 4 months ago. I looked at the (time/decay) of options trading BTC, and found it unfavorable.

 I would however like to reiterate that owning a few BTC keeps you in the loop, and also isn't a bad idea.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:39 | 4904301 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Its only the loop if your in it, otherwise its just a loop.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:47 | 4904322 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

   I've looked long and hard for a reputable "counterparty". The "risk" in trading crypto's is very expensive.

 I agree with your comment whole heartedly.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 22:32 | 4904666 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Precisely, amigo Yen!  If you travel, it's a great way to have some extra "money" on hand, at least in areas where you can sell BTC or buy with it.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 04:49 | 4905011 shouldvekilledthem
shouldvekilledthem's picture

"I came across one of the most important achievements of recent times (open money).... let's trade the fuck out of it."

- n+1 idiot 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 11:09 | 4905292 shitco.in
shitco.in's picture

There is no CP risk if you download the QT client and store all of your coins on your own computer.  No need to trade BTC at all, just buy and hold.

If you decide to "cash out" into PM via Amagi or Agora, you can send payment directly from your QT client. 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 11:50 | 4905372 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

shitco.in    There is no CP risk if you download the QT client and store all of your coins on your own computer.  No need to trade BTC at all, just buy and hold.

---

Kind of like putting your money under your mattress

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 12:18 | 4905407 shitco.in
shitco.in's picture

Except the money under your mattress loses value, BTC in your QT client gains value. (not looking at short term trends here)

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 13:54 | 4905528 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

 shitco.in   Except the money under your mattress loses value, BTC in your QT client gains value. (not looking at short term trends here)

---

Except in deflation and you are doing the same thing. That is no short term trend

And the money can buy groceries at the local store, pay my utilities, pay the rent, pay for gas at the gas station. But I digress, you can buy shit at overstock.com.

 

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 00:22 | 4906131 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Good Citizen of the Week Award goes to sessinpo.  Do you not desire alternatives?  Do begrudge those who do seek alternatives? 

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:33 | 4904279 Al Capowned
Al Capowned's picture

Been talking to a guy in a bar tonight about bitcoin it's just too much for some people to get there heads around but they will soon understand it's unstoppable due to its unparalleled utility. Mahatma they won't be in the smart money it early investors but hey

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:33 | 4904282 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Lost all interest when BTC and LTC became too slow and costly to mine.  Now prefer mix of land, gold and cash over crypto.

Couldn't care less about the rest, because they're not going anywhere.  Which makes them only profitable for its Founders, and a novelty item for "marginal" use.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 22:54 | 4904698 ThankYouSatan
ThankYouSatan's picture

Right on Kirk. Better make sure that land is undesirable though. Been loosing interest in G and S, but should be useful for trade with preppers. You need land that no one wants and everything else needed to sustAin life, crop animal etc

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:34 | 4904283 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Well one is tangible, heavy, and hard to vaporize.

Has the cost of mining Gold doubled since it was at $600/Troy ounce?

Costs doubled in nine years?  Something about that narrative doesn't pass the sniff test,

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:36 | 4904288 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

Not only that, but now there is a bitcoin mining conglomerate that has hit the 50% threshold for total coin mining efforts, raising the spector of manipulation of the coins themselves due to the majority control.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:39 | 4904303 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Oops.  Thanks, did not know that.  51% is control of one kind or another.

I was looking at oil price charts; the price has doubled since Gold was at $600.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:44 | 4904318 seek
seek's picture

I was going to mention oil as a proxy for mining costs since energy is a big part of them, but it looks like you discovered this already.

Add in the fact that endless printing is likely raising land/lease costs and increased regulation is resulting in higher costs as well, and a doubling in mining costs is pretty plausible. Not to mention "peak everything," e.g. the easy extraction days of nearly every natural resource has come to an end, so the input costs to get pretty much anything mined are higher than before as well.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 22:36 | 4904672 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Indeed, energy costs are a big part of mining both Au and BTC.  Barring a recession (now scarily possible...), supplying both will cost more.

"Peak Resources" would be good for both.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 00:55 | 4904878 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Which one is 50% here? https://blockchain.info/pools

GHash.IO, the biggest at 37%, is not a conglomerate, but a pool. The pool administrator does not have control over the hardware, which is owned by individual miners. He can only bundle the computing power, if it's offered to the pool, to solve a single hash problem and share the rewards.

Miners might connect to a different pool, long before GHash.IO reaches a critical share. But even if, why would the miners do something weird with their 51%, which would destroy their own business then?

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:44 | 4904316 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Other than discretionary electronics and long distance rates, what has not doubled in price in 9 years?

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:52 | 4904337 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Beer.  It's cheap.  It should cost more.  Is it controlled to keep it cheap to quell the rebellion?

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 11:14 | 4905301 shitco.in
shitco.in's picture

The cost of mining BTC is about to increase 25% (in fiat terms) in the next 17 hours: https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:37 | 4904290 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Played with bitcoin for about 3 months.  Did very well with it. But all it did was convince me in physical Gold 100%  

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:40 | 4904305 Silver Shield
Silver Shield's picture

The BitCON is a Ponzi Scheme http://www.zerohedge.com/node/488930

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:44 | 4904319 Al Capowned
Al Capowned's picture

Chris I love your work it's amazing, but Ponzi is a centralised scheme with no real underlying investment where old investors are paid out directly with money from new investors.

Bitcoin is decentralised where the underlying investment is the utility of a frictionless low cost efficient transactional network that's based on supply and demand for the exclusive currency that operates on that network.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 20:06 | 4904377 TVP
TVP's picture

Thank you, Al.

 

For demonstrating reason among a vast swamp of ignorance.  

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 14:10 | 4905569 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Al Capowned    Chris I love your work it's amazing, but Ponzi is a centralised scheme with no real underlying investment where old investors are paid out directly with money from new investors.

---

Creators and early adopters got easy bitcoins because mining bitcoins gets harder over time. Since the model is deflationary with a limit of 21 million, it has to go up as long as new investors jump in. Thus you have the ponzi. It's just been reformed in another package.

And BTW Your monologue:

"Bitcoin is decentralised where the underlying investment is the utility of a frictionless low cost efficient transactional network that's based on supply and demand for the exclusive currency that operates on that network."

is old and stale. I've heard that crap a thousand times to explain bitcoin but it does nothing.

Now I pose a logical question for you. What if you got what you wanted and bitcoin became the currency. Who would be best positioned to gain from that?

If there are only 21 million bitcoins available, why wouldn't some oligarch just buy a major share of it. Why wouldn't several oligarchs corner that market?

Then what would you do?

 

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 00:18 | 4906389 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

>"If there are only 21 million bitcoins available, why wouldn't some oligarch just buy a major share of it. Why wouldn't several oligarchs corner that market?"

They would have to buy them off of current owners.  That's fine, people can sell bitcoins they own for whatever price they feel like to whomever they please.  If oligarchs cornered the market then they would ping bitcoins between themselves and the rest of us would move on to something else.  I can be cajoled into selling portions of my holdings at higher and higher and higher prices but I will never sell them all.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 20:08 | 4904381 crazytechnician
crazytechnician's picture

Chris Duane maybe a nice chap with an honest heart but everything he says about bitcoin is a lie. Do you own research / homework , Silver Shield = Truth Never Told = TRUTH IS NEVER TOLD !!!!!!!!!

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:40 | 4904308 Al Capowned
Al Capowned's picture

Try transferring $1 million in gold bullion from one country to another and let me know if it competes with the 10 minute and $0.05 cost of bitcoin transactions. People minds will be blown when bitcoin goes mainstream

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 18:45 | 4906027 malek
malek's picture

When will you highpriests understand that there is a lower limit to how frictionless a large transaction should be - otherwise it can be stolen just as fast and easy

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:46 | 4904324 loveyajimbo
loveyajimbo's picture

They should have called it DouchebagSuckerLoserCoin

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 20:00 | 4904341 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  In theory it's a neat idea. If you delve into BTC, it's really about secrecy.

  Something, tells me the guys at the top like that idea. "divide and conquer"

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 20:04 | 4904368 TVP
TVP's picture

Yeah, all those bitcoin millionares sure are douchebags and suckers.

 

I'm jealous, too.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 14:13 | 4905576 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

TVP   Yeah, all those bitcoin millionares sure are douchebags and suckers.

 I'm jealous, too.

---

And to think. Now those lobbyist and oligarchs can secretly move money even more then before to do whatever. I'm sure you are jealous.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:50 | 4904331 kill switch
kill switch's picture

When the electric grid goes down I'll take GOLD!!

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:58 | 4904350 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

I love this argument, yeah you and MadMax will be buying canned food with your gold dust, uh-huh. Let me tell you friend if the electricity grid goes down the only metals you'll be wishing you had are lead and maybe some Damascus steel

Tue, 07/01/2014 - 18:42 | 4915495 kill switch
kill switch's picture

Three years of food supply,,,, a Kimber 1911 covert and 10,000 rounds, with the loverly HK long with color scope....

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 20:02 | 4904363 TVP
TVP's picture

And until then, what will you do with your gold?

Bury it in the backyard?

Polish, shine, and admire its awesomeness?

 

I own much silver, myself.  Yet it tanked and now a big chunk of my savings has been converted to metal that I can't use for shit, and can't sell without losing.

 Had I bought bitcoin instead at the same moment in time, my returns would have been well over 1000%.  

I believe the price is up about 500% year-over-year at present.    

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 00:21 | 4905141 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

In the meantime (while the electric grid is actually up and running) I am led to believe you use YellenBux, winner, and perhaps you see no hypocrisy in that? 

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:56 | 4904346 TVP
TVP's picture

Crypto = the Gold of the Future.  Here's why:

Unlike gold, crypto can be divided into micro-payments.  

Unlike gold, crypto and be teleported anywhere across the globe almost instantly.

Unlike gold, crypto works as online payment.  Good luck sending your gold through the interwebs.  

Like gold, crypto must be mined into existence, and there can only be a certain amount ever mined.  In other words, crypto is finite and therefore non-inflationary.  

Like gold, crypto has intrinsic value.  The electricity costs and computing power required to solve a block in the blockchain and gain the reward coins are forever sealed into that cryptographic coin.  

 

At some point, all money will be cryptographic, because no one will want to bother with the hassle of anything else.  

All of this nonsense, fear-mongering and paranoia, stems from an intense ignorance of the technology.

 Don't feel bad - even Warren Buffet doesn't understand the damn thing.   

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 20:12 | 4904391 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Unlike gold, crypto and be teleported anywhere across the globe almost instantly.

You say that as though its a feature, not a flaw ;-)

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 20:42 | 4904450 crazytechnician
crazytechnician's picture

No . the feature is with gold of course where you can send it anywhere in an instant , through the post , through the mail , through an airport , through a checkpoint ,  any amount , instantly at any time , without a problem. Of course with bitcoin you will be stopped by metal detctors , X-Ray machines , any guard at any checkpoint will immeiduately find your MicroSD card with all you information , you cannot print ypur private keys on a small piece of paper , in fact you cannot email or post your bitcoin anywhere. Gold coins and bars are obviously the future of money. Dont forget to bury them in the lake first though.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 20:54 | 4904472 nmewn
nmewn's picture

lol...no, I intend to bury it in the ether and pay for services & products (with "something"?) in order to access...money.

Yes, of course, makes perfect sense ;-)

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 20:00 | 4904354 VWAndy
VWAndy's picture

If only we could store energy in a can for years at a time?

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 20:01 | 4904360 crazytechnician
crazytechnician's picture

I grind my gold coins down . then dissolve the flakes in acid and dry ,  then blow the powder down my ethernet cable. That way it is better than bitcoin cos then I dont have to bury my gold in the lake with my 25 year old prepper food.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 21:17 | 4904534 moonstears
moonstears's picture

Bitcoin neutral, I like XRP ripples,  but funny, I chortled there, so +1 tech

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 04:53 | 4905012 shouldvekilledthem
shouldvekilledthem's picture

XRP is centralized and premined. It's the USD of the crypto world.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 22:13 | 4904362 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Is that a roll of Bitcoins in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?

///////////

Wut?

So, it WAS something REAL in the pants and not something digitized/ethereal.

Come closer, can you feel it now? ;-)

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 20:07 | 4904379 BobRocket
BobRocket's picture

Bitcoin is a tradable asset just like gold, carrots, water or USD
Bitcoin has a finite quantity just like gold or water (unlike carrots or USD)
Bitcoin is scarce just like gold (unlike water)
Bitcoin can be used in a transaction with someone securely on the other side of the planet at little cost and in a short time (unlike gold)

Bitcoin was chosen as one of the first apps because most people understand cash as a transaction medium and Bitcoin can be used as Digital Cash.

The revolutionary bit is the Blockchain which can be used as a secure transaction log for any number of interactions from voting or accounting to things such as validating the provenence of that piece of beef (horse) on your plate.

 

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 20:17 | 4904400 TVP
TVP's picture

Very well-stated.

People need to understand that a NEW TECHNOLOGY HAS BEEN DISCOVERED.  

That tech is called the bitcoin protocol.  

And this tech will be REVOLUTIONARY.  It has the potential to END the tyranny of central banks, forever.  

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 20:25 | 4904415 crazytechnician
crazytechnician's picture

Bullshit. I have discovered a way to convert the gold I buried in the lake near to my prepper food into something I can send over a network. What I do is grind down my gold and silver into a really fine powdwe. Then I can blow this powder down my fibre otpical cable which my internet and TVworks from. I just have a few problems at the moment which I will fix , first of all I am not sure where the powder will come out , my internet company promises me it will be where I choose but they have laso said my cable can be hacked and the gold filings could come out somewhere wlse. Could the gold expersts please help me with how to deal with this problem and the other problem I have with finding my gold stash because I cannot remember what lake I left my coins in.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 20:20 | 4904407 VWAndy
VWAndy's picture

Finite is not a good quality in the medium of exchange.

 An actual value that can be measured would be best.

The blockchain is more of a liability then a benefit.

Energy backed coin. Its always left out of these types of talks.

 

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 21:25 | 4904553 BobTheSlob
BobTheSlob's picture

Yep, and that's why silver+gold+oil = real currency. Bitcoin is sparsely available (future) fiat. Minerals are sparse but can be created in healthy, limited quantities.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 22:19 | 4904646 VWAndy
VWAndy's picture

The two issues I have with gold and silver as the medium of exchange are. A because they are finite they wont scale well over time. Savers will cause scarcity. Thats just as bad as what we are doing now. The second issue is demographics. As the worlds population grows the finite aspect will kick in. Leaving us right where we are now.

On the plus side of an energy backed. It can be measured and verifyed in real terms. It can also be produced by anyone. So we can still enjoy annonomis trade using paper and assure its long term value. How has energies value held over the last forty years?

 Bitcoin could oveturn this cart. But it seems to me best to turn it around and head off in a new direction. Rewarding savers and producers.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 00:05 | 4904825 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

> Savers will cause scarcity.

Just offer them 10x more fiat in exchange and I'm sure some would unwillingly part with their hoards.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 09:07 | 4905171 painlord-2k
painlord-2k's picture

"Finite is not a good quality in the medium of exchange."

Logically, "infinite" is not a bad quality on a medium of exchange, if you statement is right.

NOT. 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 13:51 | 4905540 VWAndy
VWAndy's picture

Infinite so long as it is backed by something with a real value is fine. Its about the actual medium of exchange having a stable real value. Fiat is all about theft on an ever increasing scale.

 Comparing backed and unbacked is a pretty weak argument. A finite medium of exchange is going to be a dead end. Savers and population growth will lead to a destruction of perchasing power. The piont of having a medium of exchange is to facilitate trade. This cycle of fiat empire after fiat empire must come to an end. The gold and silver thing has been done and it did not work.

 So why dont we try something that could work? Instead of things we know have not worked?

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 18:47 | 4906033 malek
malek's picture

By definition anything of completely unlimited availabilty has zero value.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 19:10 | 4906068 VWAndy
VWAndy's picture

BS. Until we have free energy I dont see it being an issue.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 19:59 | 4906132 malek
malek's picture

Reality doesn't care what you "see"

Infinite so long as it is backed by something with a real value is fine.

That was your statement. I pointed out it was an oxymoron.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 21:10 | 4906246 VWAndy
VWAndy's picture

Valueless energy? Even free energy would still have value. Because its usefull.

 Oh any reduction in energy costs improve everyones quality of life. Porvided its used well.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 01:37 | 4906574 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Go for it, bro. I'll patiently wait for your energy backed currency. In the meantime I'll use bitcoin, thanks.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 20:25 | 4904414 HUGE_Gamma
HUGE_Gamma's picture

"Any uptick in inflation will lead to an increase in the price of gold"

ORLY!?

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 08:29 | 4905142 painlord-2k
painlord-2k's picture

Is it paper gold or metal gold you are talking about?

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 20:42 | 4904451 FlyinHigh
FlyinHigh's picture

Q. Put, One Oz. of Gold in one hand, and a bit-coin in the other, and what do you have?

A. One Oz. of Gold.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 20:51 | 4904467 crazytechnician
crazytechnician's picture

Fuck You , I buried all my Gold in the lake right next to my stash of 25 year old prepper food. If somebody could remind me what lake that was I would be really gratefull. Thanks.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 21:14 | 4904524 teslaberry
teslaberry's picture

notice one of the key important attributes that should be in an infographic about gold and bitcoin are both missing; 

 

1) WHO ARE THE BIGGEST OWNERS OF PHYSICAL GOLD AND WHO ARE THE BIGGEST OWNERS OF BITCOIN?

2) HOW IS THE USAGE OF BITCOIN AND GOLD DISTRIBUTED AMONGST THE BOTTOM 80% OF OWNERS/USERS BY TOTAL OWNERSHIP. 

 

THE DISTRIBUTION AND USAGE OF A MEDIUM OF VALUE/TRANSACTION IS ONE OF ITS IMPORTANT ATTRIBUTES, WHETHER FIAT, PRESCIOUS METAL, OR DIGITAL DEFLATIONARY TOKEN.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 05:08 | 4905017 shouldvekilledthem
shouldvekilledthem's picture

The distribution of bitcoin just started. Considering that these are still the early days, it doesn't make sense to compare it this way.

 

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 21:18 | 4904535 potato
potato's picture

BitCoin is a fantastic way to send money. I would convert any bitcoins to physical gold for storage.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 21:48 | 4906309 Buzz Hacksaw
Buzz Hacksaw's picture

I need a way to upclick a gazillion times.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 21:22 | 4904544 BobTheSlob
BobTheSlob's picture

Dear Bitcoin idolators:
(Yes that's you goatherder). When the electricity goes out because Ograbme shutdown the coal plant next door, or the government shuts down the web, or any other natural or un-natural catastrophe takes place, or when UR hacked, or when your friendly neiborhood bitcoin "wallet" is hacked (wallet...LMAO)....bitcoin is worth ZERO.

When someone decides that 21 million coins ain't enuff...now it's fiat.

If you can't hide it in your (orifice) then you don't own it.

Any questions?

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 00:09 | 4904830 Beltway1776
Beltway1776's picture

But Max Keiser told me Bitcoin was a "sure thing". gold has been money for 5,000 years, it's a barbarous relic, so it's time to exchange your stack for an e-wallet that can be hacked by FBI-run LulzSec.

 

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 01:42 | 4906579 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

And while the lights remain on you just go right ahead keep on using YellenBux, tame citizen BobTheSlob.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 22:33 | 4904668 Who was that ma...
Who was that masked man's picture

The problem with gold is you can't eat it but, Bitcoin on the other hand.........

Oh wait, never mind.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 22:55 | 4904697 Whitehall
Whitehall's picture

I'm no expert and haven't dug deep in BTC but it sure looks like a bubble to me.  The low transaction costs does look appealing though.

As to gold, England tried to go back on the gold standard in 1925 and ruined their economy.  They went off it in 1931.  The US went off the gold standard in 1933 and made it a CRIMINAL offense to possess gold or gold certificates. 

So the appeal that BTC is not controlled by a government now, only means that it will someday.

Better to buy one or more safe haven homes in other jurisdecticions.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 23:50 | 4904804 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well, I believe thats where the Bitsters & the hard money people have common ground...jurisdiction.

Neither side believes anyone or anything should have control over "saved labor"...which is what money is these days, after "progressive wage" taxation.

The hardest thing for hard money people to get through to Bitsters is to make them understand they are playing a fiat game on a completely different level.

There is no traceable record that I ate at Joe's Crab Shack in Daytona Beach last night, until now. Likewise, there is no record of the tip I left. Which was sizeable, for the waitress and will go unreported, as it should be.

My wages had been taxed once already, hers shouldn't be again, its the same money I was taxed on ;-)

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 04:57 | 4905014 shouldvekilledthem
shouldvekilledthem's picture

Use your fucking brain nmewn. EDUCATE YOURSELF for fucks sake!

By default bitcoin is pseudo-anonimous. You can achieve full blown anonimity with some extra steps.

knowledge is power...

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 08:04 | 4905119 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yes, I absolutely need to pay and/or go out of my way for my own privacy, something I already possess.

Is that for their convenience or mine? ;-)

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:33 | 4905696 Whitehall
Whitehall's picture

Cash (folding money) does have the advantage of anomynity, but only up to $10,000 in the US (more or less) since exit or re-entry into the banking system requires government notification.

Yes, can work around that constraint but now you're a criminal for money laundering.

 

The point being is we need to put our energies into reforming the politico-financial systems.  Right now, they're big and you're small.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 19:10 | 4906071 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Hell, we're both criminals for just telling the truth now, so another "crime" has no real meaning to me.

But it goes deeper than that, reform cannot be had until people/society are reformed. How many times do we have to be treated to the pleadings of idiot X having less than Y so therefore it should be confiscated by the state and redistributed to Y? It doesn't matter that X is a lazy good-for-nothing slob who contributes zero to the kitty on his own, the main point is he has less?

Nope, I'm not the least bit interested in reforming anything so morally corrupt and answerable to morons.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 01:27 | 4904916 pathetic looser
pathetic looser's picture

i just got my wallet , i dont really know how to use it. can someone please send me some bitcoin? i heard keeping an empty wallet is bad for ya

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 04:40 | 4905008 shouldvekilledthem
shouldvekilledthem's picture

The audience of ZH is so fucking stupid it's not even funny anymore. 

Wake up you idiots! ;)

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 05:40 | 4905030 goldhedge
goldhedge's picture

When the US Gov sells those seized Bitcoins then they are effectively making it legal tender no?

 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 05:53 | 4905035 BobRocket
BobRocket's picture

'When the US Gov sells those seized Bitcoins then they are effectively making it legal tender no?'

 

No, Legal Tender is the format of the money that the Government demands to be paid taxes in (it could be gold or carrots, whatever. The USG demands USD)

 

Money is a common exchange unit

 

Currency is Local Money

 

 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 07:01 | 4905077 anonum
anonum's picture

Tangible vs. Imaginary. Pfft.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 07:38 | 4905102 NEKO
NEKO's picture

doesn't successful bitcoin mining involve lots of computer power, a bit like HFT and so beyond the average joe?.. like me ;-)

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 08:31 | 4905144 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Nowadays yes, like gold mining, the average joe won't profit by processing bitcoin transactions (commonly called mining).  Also like gold miners, bitcoin miner's are often willing to exchange bitcoins for fiat or your supplied goods and services.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 08:27 | 4905140 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

I was expecting more.  I got nothing new except some bozo spent 10,000 bitcoins on a pizza, that a few months later would have been worth huge amounts of money.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 08:51 | 4905159 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Maybe some separation of the roles of gold and bitcoin as a medium of exchange vs store of value for both gold and bit-coin.

With travel restrictions it is getting hard to travel with huge amounts of gold without the man knowing.  

The relative risk of using bitcoide for the duration of the travel is different that the risks of using bitcoin as a store of value...

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 09:56 | 4905203 New American Re...
New American Revolution's picture

And when the power goes out, and your laptop powers down, and the documentation files for bitcoin crash; gold will still remain.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 21:13 | 4906251 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Until then keep using YellenBux, winner.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 21:26 | 4906272 Rootin' for Putin
Rootin' for Putin's picture

Bitcoins are now just the domain of the .01% elite.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/government-auctions-bitcoin-silk-roa...

You needed to buy in $1.8million blocks of coin.

Looks like gh0atrider has been run out of town.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 21:28 | 4906276 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

You can buy/sell $10 worth from Coinbase.com.  The US Marshalls set their own terms for that particular auction and, yes, it was out of reach for most investors.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 21:36 | 4906289 Buzz Hacksaw
Buzz Hacksaw's picture

Ahhh Glrasshoppr The test is yet to begin.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!