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Fact Or Fiction: Humanity Still Surprised That 'Megalomaniacal Pricks' Decide Everything

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Fact or Fiction...

Noting that it has had thousands of years to develop a more agreeable option, humankind expressed bewilderment this week that it has yet to devise a better alternative to governing itself than always letting power-hungry assholes run everything, sources worldwide reported.

Individuals in every country on earth voiced their frustration that, in spite of generations of mistreatment, neglect, and abuse they have suffered at the hands of those in positions of authority, they continue to allow control over the world’s governments, businesses, and virtually every other type of organization and social group to fall to the most megalomaniacal pricks among them.

“We’ve all seen what this system leads to, so you’d think that by now, someone, somewhere would have sat down and thought up another way to keep our societies functioning without giving all the power to arrogant, amoral dicks whose only concern is improving their own status,” said Mumbai software designer Ankan Rao, one of 7.1 billion humans who conveyed continued surprise that their species has so far proven incapable of formulating a method of governance that was even slightly more tolerable. “Everybody dislikes the people in charge and everybody knows they’re only serving their own personal agendas at the expense of everyone else, but we just keep allowing these jerks to make our decisions time and time again. And it’s not just here—it’s everywhere in the world.”

“Boy, maybe we shouldn’t do that anymore,” Rao added. “Anyone have any better ideas?”

Speaking with reporters, citizens across the planet unanimously expressed their bafflement at the consistency with which they either formally or informally select corrupt and self-obsessed sacks of shit for leadership roles in all facets of life, including positions atop corporate boards, judicial and legislative bodies, religious institutions, parent-teacher associations, the military, intramural softball teams, and international and national professional associations, as well as groups of friends deciding where to eat.

In addition, sources offered countless examples of the counterproductive and perplexing practice of entrusting power to the world’s least scrupulous individuals, ranging in scale from a domineering dictator who plunges his country into civil war in order to consolidate his power, to a Foot Locker shift manager who forces his subordinates to close up without him so that he can go home early.

Moreover, everyone across the planet acknowledged that the tradition of allowing an exploitative asshole to take charge of a given situation has been the principal system for group decision-making from the earliest formation of tribal societies to the present day, an admission that caused each member of the human race to either emit an exasperated sigh, shake his or her head, or mutter a profanity.

“My old boss, my sorority president, my congressional representative, my current boss—they’ve all been soulless, backstabbing dickheads whose only concern is getting what they want,” said administrative assistant Sheryl Gittens of Fort Worth, TX, who went on to list the bully back in her seventh grade class, her homeowners association president, and the coordinator of her Bible study group among the legions of selfish jagoffs who have inexplicably been granted commanding roles by the acquiescent masses. “What’s even more annoying is that we essentially reward these people for only thinking of themselves and repeatedly screwing us over. If you stop and think about it, that’s pretty messed up.”

“Jesus,” she continued. “What the hell’s wrong with us?”

Given the prevalence throughout history of compassionless, two-faced leaders whose lust for control and inflated self-importance have led to disastrous results for society at large, many individuals questioned if, going forward, they should instead try giving power to someone other than a greedy, self-serving bastard.

“Maybe we should try letting a kind, responsible person run things for a change,” Cairo resident Nathifa Bakhoum told reporters. “I, for one, don’t want to be told what to do by another narcissist who’s drunk on power and who has absolutely no regard for my well-being. It’s just a thought, but perhaps we could go with a good, decent human next time, or at least someone who’s not a completely egotistical pile of dogshit. That seems like a good thing to try at least once, right? Could we even do that? It’s probably worth a shot.”

When pressed for further comment, however, every member of humanity agreed that the current system, though deeply flawed, remains far better than one in which they actually have to make decisions for themselves.

Source: The Onion

 

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Fri, 06/27/2014 - 15:58 | 4903554 thataintnothin
thataintnothin's picture

The State is a Tragedy of the Commons

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 16:01 | 4903568 CPL
CPL's picture

And the end of a rope for the Elite.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 16:06 | 4903589 svayambhu108
svayambhu108's picture

OT :http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/26903/did-bp-assassinate-this-man/

Did anyone else taught the same about that at the time?

Did BP used nukes to stop the spill ?

There was a rare one in 50 years earthquake the same night the spill stopped in Louisiana

 

Also convinietly there was also a storm that evacuated most of the people from the sea.

 

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 16:08 | 4903599 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Didn't Arthur C. Clarke suggest to take all the people capable of leading, then eliminate those who wanted to be leaders and have a computer randomly select from those remaining?

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 16:47 | 4903624 svayambhu108
svayambhu108's picture

http://earthquaketrack.com/p/united-states/louisiana/recent

 

 

3 August 2010 4 years ago 3.0 magnitude, 0 km depth (!!!!!! 0 km deep, smoking gun ) Zachary, Louisiana, United States
The only 0km deep earthquake in that area right when deep horizon spill  suddenly stoped.

commented this same at the time on LATOC forum with some caluclus on how much kilotons would have been neede but the forum then was closed and Matt Savinar went "crazy".
And why if they did not have killed Matthew Simmons he could have been vocal that a corporation detonated a nuke surpasing chain of command The forum closed and I didn't spoke about this since then. http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15701&postdays=0&pos... Can someone help traceback facts now, for the sake of truth?
See Colin storm here which gave an escuse to have the above water clear and detonate the nuke on stormy weather at night, next day no spill:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Atlantic_hurricane_season#Season_summ...

documentary about the spill http://thoughtmaybe.com/the-big-fix/

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 11:05 | 4905284 Matt
Matt's picture

The floor of the Gulf of Mexico is not the same material as where the Soviets closed a blown well with a nuke. The sea floor would fracture instead, since it is basically limestone and other sedimentary rock.

As well, there were live feed cameras of the leaks in the sea floor streaming on the Internet, someone would have probably seen something if a nuke was used.

When did that salt dome collapse in Luisianna? Or at least begin collpasing.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 16:20 | 4903666 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

"Songs of a Distant Earth"

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 16:29 | 4903702 msmith9962
msmith9962's picture

That is a good idea.  I think only psycopaths aspire to the highest levels of office.  The best leaders feel it is an obligation of service and want to be done.  Politicians get off on the power and want more.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 16:58 | 4903748 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." — Aesop

The solution?  Get rid of public offices — i.e., don't just end the Federal Reserve; end the Federal Government — scattering the great thieves among the populace like the petty ones and reducing them to same.

Society can take it from there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Liberty

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 17:56 | 4904003 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

freedom isn't free...the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants, for that is its natutal manure.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 18:16 | 4904063 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

The freedom that is needed is that of panarchism.

Those who abhor freedom and want government can live side by side with those who abhor government and want freedom.

It's time to treat government beliefs like religious beliefs.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 00:53 | 4904874 Emergency Ward
Emergency Ward's picture

Something to ponder, but the Progressive NeoCon Church of Govt agenda does not include peaceful coexistence.  That is why its adherents are such strong proponents of the jackboot thug police state.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 23:01 | 4904717 Harriet Wanger
Harriet Wanger's picture

The Athenians did that 2,500 years ago. Except for the bit about the computer, that is. It's called sortition.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 16:08 | 4903600 CPL
CPL's picture

Ever hear of the mysterious man of the declaration of independence?  The myth goes that on July 4, 1776, while sequestered behind locked doors, the Continental Congress of the 13 British Colonies (the Founding Fathers) were in hot debate on whether or not to sign the Declaration of Independence and break from Great Britain.

Most of the men feared for their lives and their family’s lives, for if they were to sign such a document, they would be traitors to the crown, and would almost certainly be put to death if found.

As these men were debating the issue, and leaning toward NOT signing, a mysterious man arises from out of nowhere. "Citing the grievances that had brought them to this moment he said,

'Sign that parchment. They may turn every tree into a gallows, every home into a grave and yet the words of that parchment can never die. For the mechanic in his workshop, they will be words of hope, to the slave in the mines—freedom.' And he added, 'If my hands were freezing in death, I would sign that parchment with my last ounce of strength. Sign, sign if the next moment the noose is around your neck, sign even if the hall is ringing with the sound of headman’s axe, for that parchment will be the textbook of freedom, the bible of the rights of man forever.'

And then it is said he fell back exhausted. But 56 delegates, swept by his eloquence, signed the Declaration of Independence, a document destined to be as immortal as any work of man can be. And according to the story, when they turned to thank him for his timely oratory, he could not be found nor were there any who knew who he was or how he had come in or gone out through the locked and guarded doors."

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 16:14 | 4903636 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

I'll bet somehow he made a fortune off of getting them to sign...

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 17:12 | 4903859 what's that smell
what's that smell's picture

now that fudge is funny!!!

and the only way the masses will stop the pricks is to organize...oh shit!

that communism! 

randroids win again.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 16:21 | 4903673 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

It's not a myth, it's true as recorded in Jeffersons writings.  It gives me a tear and a smile.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 16:30 | 4903709 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I think he meant "myth" in the Joseph Campbell sense, which is accurate.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 17:37 | 4903946 CH1
CH1's picture

it's true as recorded in Jeffersons writings.

Have any kind of reference?

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 16:40 | 4903739 Miggy
Miggy's picture

Never heard that but extremely inspiring.

I too understand what the author is saying. It's just that those that crave power and to impose their will on others strive at being able to acquire those types of management positions. All the rest of us are happy going about our business with the attitude of live and let live. It's the human condition.

 

John 3:16

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 17:11 | 4903856 CPL
CPL's picture

You can either jump from the train and have faith you aren't going to kill yourself doing it and help others when they hit the ground.  Or be completely unsurprised that the line runs out of track at full speed.  Either way people have to make a choice.  The math in the situation is better off the train with the people smart enough to jump, tuck and roll.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 17:20 | 4903895 pakled
pakled's picture

Yes. Life proves that if one does not make key choice, the choices are forced upon you at some point.

 

It may be a derivative of the 'unstoppable force hitting an immovable object' syndrome

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 17:37 | 4903939 CPL
CPL's picture

Naw, more like everything else in the 'developed world' (if there is such a thing). 

The political plan to travel at top speed on train built to run a 1000 miles when they only built 50 miles of track.  It's a reflection of how stupid everyone is for getting suckered into it.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 20:48 | 4904457 Seek_Truth
Seek_Truth's picture

Ever heard of the mysterious man...?

"Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it."- Hebrews 13:2

Good quote, CPL.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 22:08 | 4904625 CPL
CPL's picture

May the roof above us never fall in.
And may the friends gathered below it never fall out

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 22:31 | 4904665 Seek_Truth
Seek_Truth's picture

Good ole Irish wisdom, CPL!

Here's awee bit more:

"If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at who He gives it to!"

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 23:41 | 4904787 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

A possible answer to the problem:  http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/jimbellap.htm

 

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 15:58 | 4903556 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Ground Control to Major Tom:  You didn't do it again, did you?

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 17:28 | 4903923 what's that smell
what's that smell's picture

hot lead 1400 feet per second will cure the pricks of their dickheadedness.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 15:59 | 4903561 screw face
screw face's picture

3h

Who needs conspiracy theory when revealed is always stranger than fiction. Said in 1994!

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 16:01 | 4903569 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Let me be clear.  Evolution does not work this way.

There is not, nor will there ever be a political or monetary solution to resource scarcity.

hedge accordingly.

(I am sure that the dodo birds thought they had a pretty good thing going for a while too)

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 17:39 | 4903954 Toxicosis
Toxicosis's picture

Once again Laws of Physics please stop telling people the honest to goodness facts or truth, there may not be enough left for you and me if they actually start to critically think about silly things such as resource depletion and diminished eroei. 

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 16:04 | 4903585 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

we had a kinder gentler president for awhile, it didn't work. [/sarc]

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 16:05 | 4903592 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Better than Nick Hanauer's rant anyway.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 16:06 | 4903595 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Why? Humans are apes with 23 chromosomes, the other great apes have 24. We're actually the crazy hillbillies of the primates.....ponder that shit over the weekend.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 17:26 | 4903915 Jstanley011
Jstanley011's picture

Yeah and chew on this, a ciliated protozoa has 16000...

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 17:30 | 4903927 what's that smell
what's that smell's picture

i think you made the sheep's point.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 21:03 | 4904494 Seek_Truth
Seek_Truth's picture

For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God. - Romans 1:20

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 09:53 | 4905201 stant
stant's picture

If dogs had opposable thumbs humans would be near extinction

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 16:08 | 4903602 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

Psychopaths will always run the show because they will lie, cheat, steal and kill to get what they want.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 16:08 | 4903605 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

Although this is The Onion, Wall Street and DC are full of corporate psychopaths, that bit is true. Fuck 'em!

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 16:15 | 4903634 Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

we are presented with a marvelous opportunity.  As the state crumbles we ordinary, dust of the earth peons can enter the breach and claim our birthright: the planning, care, nurture, education- the righting- of our communities.  Government was never the people.  It served to strip us of our power in the guise of ease.  I was trimming some neighborhood trees when a man ran up to me and shouted he wasn't going to pick up any branches that were left behind.  It wasn't his "job".  Do your job.  Stay in your lane.  Nothing more.  Nothing less. After I broke the ice by explaining it wasn't my job either he proceeded to help me. 

As cities cut budgets don't sit back and watch them deteriorate.  A casual observer of your own demise.  Some will recede to bunkers, but who will enter the breach?

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 18:25 | 4904091 Shigure
Shigure's picture

Great comment Quus Ant.

Yes, put your knowledge and understanding into action.

https://www.transitionnetwork.org/power-just-doing-stuff

I overcame my fear of what people might think and invited all the people in my road to a street party recently. I was delighted by the positive response from everyone. I didn't even need to do much organising - I had so many offers of help and everyone did something towards it. It was as if they had been waiting for the spark to do this all along.

Previously, I have helped to set up a community orchard, run apple tree pruning days, juice pressing days, even an earth oven building weekend. All great fun.

Discover your power to do things.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:05 | 4904196 Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

cheers shigure. 

yes, let us work while the sun shines.   

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 16:15 | 4903639 DOGGONE
DOGGONE's picture

The people are too stupid to realize this:
"The Public Be Suckered"
http://patrick.net/forum/?p=1230886

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 16:17 | 4903655 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Kough, Kochs, Kough....

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 18:57 | 4904176 NemoDeNovo
NemoDeNovo's picture

Wow I hope at some point they [kochs] finally pay you for all the space they seem to rent in your head, then you might be rich.  But let's add Uncle Warren, Suckerberg, Soros, Gates, et al to your list, I mean you don't want to descriminate do you?  Gotta include the 'lefty' billionaires or is it just team red you despise?

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 00:35 | 4904858 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

A pox on all billionaires, but some are clearly more despicable than others...

I don;t like the way they play the game....

 

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 16:23 | 4903677 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

The guillotine is the cure for sociopaths, whether they be banksters, rentiers or their pol and crat puppets.

The Four Rs
Rejection: Quit paying, quit obeying, quit playing
Revolution: It is inevitable, so prepare, as they are.
Retribution: The guilty must answer for their crimes against the American people and the Constitution.
Restoration: Restore the American people, country and Constitutional republic.

 

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 16:48 | 4903775 Spectre
Spectre's picture

The vast majority of voting American citizens are mainly stupid, if not just ignorant.  Things will never change.

 

We need something that starts with an "R", reset or revolution.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 17:40 | 4903961 Zoomorph
Zoomorph's picture

Reset and revolution are part of the power struggle. They are means by which a new set of "pricks" (their word, not mine) take power. They are not the answer to the power struggle (if you are of the naive belief that the power struggle itself is a problem).

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 17:41 | 4903962 CH1
CH1's picture

The vast majority of voting American citizens are mainly stupid.

No. They are confused, insecure and terrified of responsibility. They may act stupidly, but they are not by nature stupid. 

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 18:28 | 4904100 potato
potato's picture

Saying everyone is stupid is projecting one's own unacceptable feelings and insecurities onto others. It's a defense mechanism.

I want to think that most people are smart and drive safe, but everytime i see the polls or i read comments on Facebook, it just throw my hands up in the air. WTF!!

Then I actually talk and interact with people. The country folk you can write-off as incredibly small-minded idiots. They will never change, nor do they want to.

The city people one can divide into educated and smart (even the liberals, street hustlers, and "criminals") on one side, and on the other there are fat lazy fvcks who are completely incompetent in everything they do. That last group (plus the rednecks) are the ones voting for this stupid shit.

 

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 17:36 | 4903940 Zoomorph
Zoomorph's picture

The smart, strong and competitive running the show, the dumb, stupid and lazy as their slaves... that's the way it has always and will always be. Those who dream of it being another way are simply part of the losers. Many of them could probably be winners, except that their moral values lie wholly on the side of the losers, so that's what they will remain unless they ever grow smart enough to challenge their moral values.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 17:37 | 4903945 Jstanley011
Jstanley011's picture

Just give authority over yourselves to me, people.

I won't be an arrogant, amoral, soulless, corrupt and self-obsessed sack of shit, or a backstabbing dickhead whose only concern is getting what I want.

I promise.

Honest.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 17:50 | 4903992 zzmop
zzmop's picture

There is a hope and this is what I believe it is. Socrates developed logic he just was unable to do anything with it. Like having a new set of tires but no car. We now have "technology" so we should now take the next step.  At this time though we are living in a world where falacy rules. Why? Every human brain is a computer working independently tied to person with a unique perspective, good or bad. The communication between one computer (brain) and another is where our problem lies. We need to develope a framework of logic - Technology ( software) and (epistemology - rules of logic) and separate the imput from the brain from the persona. Imagine a blog or place to post comment where there was no avatar, no insults just propositions that lived or died on merit. Anyone could contribute, there was no agenda, no affiliation, no stance, or any other garbage just your proposition unattached to you. All the world ever saw was your proposition, who or where it came from no one knew or cared. It is all about coming to conclusions. that is what we do. We take in information and digest it according to our perspective. Where the problem lies is that we eithter intentionally or unintinionally deceive others or ourselves through falicious thinking. This is the problem. How do we correct or thought before we reach the conclusion stage. Imagine a world where we look upon "politicians" as we would a witch dotor. Where the politician is outdated and irrevelant. Buy a book on falacies then go listen to Piers Morgan and see how many you can find. He is a master. Turn on the T.V. listen. The problem (the enemy) is not the person spouting propaganda. It is the fact that most of the population does not know the difference and the (propositions) from the MSM are never critiiqued or put to test. they are never put to the test. What if we came to great conclusion and it did not go away with tomorrows news. Tomorows news were only words out there yet to be assimilated. Lies are only falacies, why should this be such a large task for organized logic ot overcome? There are bookd on this stuff. I have been reading these post since late 99. all we are doing is cataloging our own murder. When we challenge the lies it is only our word against theirs our affiliation vs. their affiliation. perception rules, Why? To do this you will have to believe in humanity. Because when you enter anonymously and post your proposition it is in the hands of humanity. no wit or emotion to sway the crowd, no help from a friend, no suit and tie to cover your ignorance.  This is not (groupthink) tihis is epistemology with software. I know some of your will attack me. But please when do we stop the merry go round and find a real solution for our age. Revolution will just be violence and we will eventually end up right back where we were, because people never change and we will still be talking in riddles. Wars is tradgedy, a sign of a primitive species. How many hours can we put into finding a solution. How many hours have people spent posting ideas only to change nothing. Start today, tell me where I am mistaken AND WHY.  I can take it, I welcome it. I want to know. Lets Start asking questions.  We all know where we are at now. the last 20 years has been informative to say the least. Let's change gears now and find real solutions with tested, verifiable, reproducable, open source, accessable logic.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 18:05 | 4904019 Zoomorph
Zoomorph's picture

Stupid. Most people are not interested in logic, so how are you going to sell this idea to them? They want a comfortable life, which is practically the opposite of the conditions required for someone to become rigorously logical.

Furthermore, logic isn't the real issue. Logic is only a tool. The underlying issue is that people have different values. If you want to preserve the world exactly as it is and I want to transform it into an intergalactic power center, logic will do nothing to bring us together.

I imagine you'll posit something like democracy as the answer to the question of values: we hold a big vote and the winners get it their way. Well, this doesn't make the system very enticing for everyone in the minority. We'd be idiots to go along with it.

Logic is only one tool at our disposal, and by far not the most effective, as is evidenced by the words of the MSM, politicians, and your average person.

I suppose you can dream of an alternate reality that would suit you better, but don't expect your dreams to ever be realized unless you manage to force them upon the world. Your dreams as expressed above sound extremely implausible in my opinion, so I doubt you'll have much luck with that.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 18:55 | 4904166 zzmop
zzmop's picture

Para. 1  When the collective start putting their energies into logical constructs via software and devoted platforms. you will be either in or out. When I first came across this idea it was a article about how the 145 IQ MIT graduate was outdone by 10 commoners working together. It's called collective intellegenge, not to be cofused with groupthink. Interested in logic or not this platform will deliver better conclusions. If you want to go live a comfortable life and never participate great. It might even be better because you know the no one can demonize you ( a falacy and bonb you to death in your sleep) which is so easy today. Also no one need become rigorously logical, because the software and the other participants have already done that for you. Spouting off what you think will appear very stupid unless you think about what you are trying to say first.

Para 2 Logic is the issue because today we literally swim in a sea of falacies. Falacies that are also (tools) straw men, red herrings, liesl etc. etc. tools used deftly every day by politicians and world leaders.  Values may delve into the spiritual which i am not trying to dissect. All I am saying is that crap is flying everywhere every day And somehow we always expect things to change somehow, or there is war our number one tool now obsolete- nuclear weapons. when a sound conclusion is reached and no one can take credit for it or associate themselves with it for barter later, it belongs to all, maybe will start to see each other differently.

Para 3  Values is a term that is kind of epherial. Democracy is politics. Maybe there will be a vote, nove of this is what I am talking about. What I am talking about is issues, questions and what are better conclusions. Minority, majority has nothing to do with it. The only relavance is does your position or proposition reasonable and logical. Minority and majoity have to do with interest and interest get what they want however they can get it. Imagine if a issue was truly vetted where the pros and cons where tested with fire. I have seen post run forever and nothing is accomplished. It is all gone tomorow and they start all over. that is a good system?

Para. 4 Right, the most effective tool is a lie.

Para 5 Why do we have to take the "reality" we live in today which is endless war throughout history, lies, deceptions. a world where people navigate with "perceptions" I have a book on falacies and it stops around # 45. I think people or at leas some people will be drawn to a honest format or at least more honest. A format where they can't disqualify you be labeling you. What it you could feed a presidential speech into a program and it spit out how many and which falacies where presented and errors in logic. You wouldn't want to see that? What if the president knew this would happen. What if the president was irrelevant.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 19:32 | 4904278 Zoomorph
Zoomorph's picture

Logic is the issue because today we literally swim in a sea of falacies.

Imagine that we had perfect logic. Then what? People would still disagree on the underlying premises (ie. values). How do you propose that those disagreements be solved?

 

Why do we have to take the "reality" we live in today which is endless war throughout history, lies, deceptions.

Because it's the best and only reality. War, fighting and competition is the one thing that underpins all of life. Without it, I doubt we could call ourselves alive or have consciousness. It's really inconcievable for us to imagine life without these elements. At best, you can imagine a world that would be better for you (but not for others). Now life is a war: go to battle to try to impose your favorable conditions instead of others'. But you cannot change the nature of the game altogether.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 20:26 | 4904417 zzmop
zzmop's picture

the dictionary shows the first def. of premise as logic, a proposition supporting or helping support a conclusion. In epistemology there is something called justified true belief. If you look up epistemology it is not an easy subject to get your head around. and it is not definitive. Still it is a framework which lies dormant unknown and unused by virtually everyone. If we can create robots that talk to us. then why can't we apply software and technology into an age old discipline. The most important point though that I want to make is that any work done on the premise would be there a week a year a decade later to refine. If you give a speech they hear it go home and a few weeks later all or most is forgotten. If you write a book it really is only relavant to those who read it and depends on how they interpret it. I am talking about actually creatiing something. building something which is physically there, all in the hope of reaching a better conclusion.

War is the mainstay of humanity I agree. Humanity is in uncharted territory now. Do you think 100 years ago someone could could conceive of a cell phone. Our weapons now will destoy the planet, hense the apocalypse. Is war really an option anymore? I could go climb mountains and call myself alive and having consciousness. I could sail the oceans. The only real game is human intelligence and the question is will it overcome our past. will we move forward wtih our technology or will our  beviours we drag aroung from 6000 years ago destroy us.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 21:14 | 4904511 Zoomorph
Zoomorph's picture

 If we can create robots that talk to us. then why can't we apply software and technology into an age old discipline.

Because computers are built on logic, but the english language is not - it's very ambiguous. Computers can already do logic or do our "thinking" for us in the form of a well-defined language, ie. mathematics, but they can't touch our general languages. Robots that talk to us are using an extremely limited subset of language and a bunch of hacks at best. At worst (for your scenario), they aren't based on logic, rather statistics or machine learning or so-on.

P.S. - I already know epistemology, don't worry. All truth is tautological (true by definition). Everything else is up to value judgements or beliefs. These will vary in the population. You need to propose a way to select between the group of people who care about X and the group that care about !X.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 21:41 | 4904589 zzmop
zzmop's picture

Ok so we send a man to the moon, what I am saying is that if the will is there we can do it. If you could build an artificial environment where all the obligatory name calling and other nonsense is screened out and only the viable propositions exist at least we would be working on the right thing. I remember seeing a article by William Rasberry I think was his name long ago, on gun control.  Three paragraphs of which only maybe three sentences were relevant, one was a falselhood anonther an opinion, maybe one viable sentence in it all and I don't even know if it make sense. Yet he was a big shot and probably had people saying to themselves "oh yeah".  "value judgements"  or perceptions. "beliefs" these can be way off even though they are honest, "Care" - perceptions again,

I don't really want to group people, that is the basis for division. My belief is that there are alot of misbeliefs that are at the same time honest beliefs. In this world though now we just go kill them all for their wrong perspective on the world. In war your are fighting people who may otherwise be your friends. Humans are the same the world over.

If you detach the process and there is a process form the person you will have something. What we believe did not come to us overnight. We read, learn,  formulate opinions and viewpoints in a way WE see as rational and logical even though it may not be. The process is taking place I just want to make it a more efficient process, a  more honest process. Then there are the bad guys. who will say anything and do anythng to get what they want. Judgements, beliefs, cares these all require a process. A process no one can verify because it takes place in the hidden recess of the mind.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 22:51 | 4904686 Zoomorph
Zoomorph's picture

If you could build an artificial environment where all the obligatory name calling and other nonsense is screened out and only the viable propositions exist at least we would be working on the right thing.

In your opinion, in your value judgement, it would be the "right" thing, but that's only your opinion.

For some people, name calling, lies, and deception are necessary tools. You have a bias against them, but they are undoubtedly valuable for some people. For some people, I'm sure, creative insults and lies are probably more valuable than truth (truth is a colossal bore...).

 

Ok so we send a man to the moon, what I am saying is that if the will is there we can do it.

Not necessarily. If you're the only person who wants to send a man to the moon and everyone else wants to stop the space program because it causes pollution, how are you going to do it? You can't do it alone and you can't change the opinions of other people using logic alone. Maybe this is one case where you could use lies, deception and fallacies to influence people to get your way....

 

The truth about your proposed system is that whoever is in power isn't going to care about logic, they are going to care about staying in power. After a few generations, at best, someone with the power to do so would secretly modify the system to break the rules of logic to their own advantage. This would either by the person in power, or an underdog hacker who is seeking to upset the current powers that be.

You can't rid the world of lying and deception any more than you can rid it of violence. These things are parts of life to stay, and they're even good, desirable parts! Consider a perfect capitalist society without violence: all power should eventually be concentrated in a single person. Violence is the way that those who aren't in power can steal it back, but also the way those in power try to hold it. Lies and deception have the a similar role in the mental sphere as violence has in the physical.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 23:12 | 4904734 zzmop
zzmop's picture

in my opinion if you have to resort to name calling, lies which are all deception then you don't have much to contribute to begin with. Politics is warfare on another front. Would you really want to have to deal with someone who deceives you whenever possible, whom you can't trust.

The whole idea here is that from history we have chosen leaders. What is a leader? He or she is the most regarded in some capacity, physical or intellectual. As for intellect which is what our politicians are chosen on. Would it not be great to hold them accountable to their words. Do we really need "leaders" when all a leader is as is the MIT grad, one "computer" Do we want to trust it all to the calculations of one computer. We need to make the "leader" obsolete, at least in some sense. Whoever gets in power will be accountable, truly. This is not all a game. As for sabotage, what is firefox? Someone may disrupt it but it will be back better than ever.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 00:17 | 4904841 Zoomorph
Zoomorph's picture

This is not all a game.

What is life, then? Fundamentally, what do you think life is? If not a game, if not fun a competitive, why bother living?

 

Whoever gets in power will be accountable, truly.

If they're accountable, then they aren't truly in power: they're figureheads.

 

You appear to idealize some kind of Utopia without power or leaders. What you idealize is utterly implausible in our current reality. Life is all a power struggle. I'm not sure what the point of your Utopia would be... it sounds boring and meaningless to me!

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 21:50 | 4904603 zzmop
zzmop's picture

Take Piers Morgan for instance. I was reading  his transcript and blog site on gun control. One day I just started listing common falacies. When I got to the 7th or 8th that Piers was using to make his point even I was flabergasted. i said to myself this guy is good. On top of that you have the aggresive, snide countanance and the suit, and the fact he is on national t.v., hey this guy's somebody. But what he was saying was total nonsense, again take away all the falicious comments and what are you left with. I don't think he would have much to say. It would be a 5 minute program.  This is the world we live in. Can we not do better. I am with Mogambu we are galatic idiots.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 21:12 | 4904520 Seek_Truth
Seek_Truth's picture
James 5:1-6

New International Version (NIV)

Warning to Rich Oppressors

Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.[a] You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.

-James 5:1-6

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 02:25 | 4904933 BringOnTheAsteroid
BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

You probably have more to offer Seek_Truth, as a human, as a parent, as a member of society than the just cutting and pasting from the bible. It really gets tired.

Tell us your own ideas, your own experiences. Think freely and use your own knowledge and wisdom to express your thoughts and beliefs. Anyone, even a trained a monkey can cut and paste passages from the internet.

One thing I particularly find annoying about bible passages is that they are absurdly idealogical. Now ideology is great, it's marvellous, it's rooted in good intention but unfortunately rarely works in the real world . . . . . . . . . hence, the mess we're sort of in and have perpetually been in since the first occurence of the bible.

You probably couldn't begin to imagine just how many ruthless and callous meglomaniacal rich have lived a propserous, happy and fulfilling life. If we had all walked in their shoes, so may have we. That's just life. I don't particularly like that aspect of it but hey, I don't really like any injustices as I perceive them.

So I'm pointing out I guess, that quoting the bible does nothing to change the course of events in life because the people causing the issues, the rich, the powerful , the pyschopaths, the sociopaths, the torturers, the gang members and leaders, the elite, couldn't give a shit about the bible and it's been like this forever.

Look, I agree that religion has made a contribution to society by introducing some rule of law when humans were truly barbaric. However, once these rules have been embedded and we have been educated and had time to see the benefit of these rules, religion takes on the same vein as unionism. It served it's purpose but no longer required.

The whole relationship with god thing then becomes an internal voyage and absolutely nothing to do with man made artefacts like the bible. 

 

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 21:18 | 4904533 pathetic looser
pathetic looser's picture

the hierarchical structures are built upon ignorance of the masses. ignorance i believe is largerly artificial , cultivated thru ''education'' and lack of access to valuable information. people are left to be in a child like state thruout their lifes. just pay attention to the language they use when they adress the puplic - thats how you talk to little children in order not to damage their fragile minds. the develpoment of rational mind is not promoted and humans are left egocentric and highly emotional thus easy to manipulate. their minds are preoccupied with non existant ideas of national pride and info about some dudes running around with the ball just cause they are from ''their country''.

Fri, 06/27/2014 - 22:46 | 4904687 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

I agree with you, pathetic looser, but that is already a fait accompli!

The degree to which the best organized gangs of criminals were able to make and maintain what we call "civilization" has been on an exponential growth curve, which has resulted in blurring the line between satire and reality so much that they have switched places!

My answer to these kinds of questions is pricelessly paradoxical, we need better death controls. Ah, the irony of attempting to persuade the masses of Zombie Sheeple that they should become better Wolves, rather than become better Sheeple!

Of course, I think I am theoretically right, but I also believe that is practically pointless. (As the long arguments above about the role of "logic" just demonstrated!)

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 00:29 | 4904852 pathetic looser
pathetic looser's picture

i think persuasion is quite pointless . i dont really believe in ''waking up '' consept. it happens sometimes but rarely and probably some predisposition was already in that person.  if you someone is a grown adult and believes that you can choose (out of few) a noble ,allknowing, ethical person who will represent them and smoothly run a very complex system as a society , then that human is lost forever and no ammount of factual persuasion would do any good. the hope lies in the future generations , in our children, in unspoiled minds full of human potential.

to encourage people to become better wolfs is unnessesary cause  thats what we have now. slaves dont want to end slavery , they want to become masters. the more comfortable humans are the easier they accept the system nomatter how unjust that system is.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 03:02 | 4904967 honestann
honestann's picture

PREDATORS versus PRODUCERS

That is the fundamental dynamic.

And that will remain the fundamental dynamic as long as human producers continue to act as prey.

If human producers would pick up arms en mass and defend themselves against human predators... game over for human predators.

Instead, it is game over for human producers.

Sadly, human producers are willing prey.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 09:13 | 4905175 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

Borders are a creation of man and not visible to the birds flying above. Much bloodshed and many wars could be avoided if the issues of regime change or borders could be handled in a more rational and constructive way, but do not expect this to happen. Borders and political control is a problem that haunts man since before the written word.

Recently President Obama and other officials have talked about the legal sanctity of sovereign borders, but in reality this is an argument of convenience masking deeper issues. When it comes down to it we are just pawns in this sad power game. If you doubt this just ask some of the many people displaced from their homes in Syria. More on the subject of sovereign borders in the article below.

http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-issue-of-sovereign-borders.ht...

 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 22:59 | 4906408 DeusHedge
DeusHedge's picture

You see that picture? That's the real head of the scarecrows, the US of A. Too bad a philosophy of such political control had to be discovered by such self-serving Aholes.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 23:00 | 4906411 DeusHedge
DeusHedge's picture

I like the .01%.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 08:42 | 4909152 sam site
sam site's picture

 

It is baffeling that these callous, arrogant assholes have been able to rule the masses.  What few understand is that 95% of the population has been captured by toxic injury and their ability to remove criminals or even think clearly has been disabled by toxic chemicals and metals in our food, water, air and medicine. 

Our manipulative, hidden Jesuit rulers conspired to disable the public's health and this poisoning even creates sheeple with a blind allegiance to the establishment.  It all started in 1913 and not only with the establishment of the Fed but also the takeover and poisoning of our food, water, air and medicine with these toxic petroleum-based chemicals and metals. 

It's not a matter of evidence or argument - just total capture and mind control.  When TSHTF, the sheeple aren't going to know what hit them and they are going to die in droves. 

See this video for more details of this massive poisoning and mind control conspiracy by our Jesuit rulers and their Rothschild bankers - the secret owners of the Fed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB3xcN_eoPo

 

 

Wed, 07/02/2014 - 14:13 | 4918550 Direct Democracy
Direct Democracy's picture

Representative democracy no longer works.  The only solution is to give decision making power back to the people in the form of a Direct Democracy.  Any new laws, tax increases and unbalanced budgets would be subject to a national referendum and require a double majority for approval.  A direct democracy is the purist form of democracy and has been applied in Switzerland for over 150 years.  The Swiss have the most democratic country in the world,  have one of the highest GDP per capita in the world, and have no foreign entanglements.  Referendums can be held over the internet. Google direct democracy/Switzerland. 

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