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Martin Armstrong Warns Civil Unrest Is Rising Everywhere: "This Won't End Pretty"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Martin Armstrong of Armstrong Economics,

Russell Brand

The greatest problem we have is misinformation. People simply do not comprehend why and how the economic policies of the post-war era are imploding. This whole agenda of socialism has sold a Utopian idea that the State is there for the people yet it is run by lawyers following their own self-interest. The pensions created for those in government drive the cost of government up exponentially with time. The political forces blame the rich and this merely creates a class warfare with no resolution for the future. Even confiscating all the wealth of the so-called rich will not sustain the system. Consequently, we just have to crash and burn and start all over again.

The Guardian reported that some 50,000 people marched in London to protest against austerity. They cried: “Who is really responsible for the mess this country is in? Is it the Polish fruit pickers or the Nigerian nurses? Or is it the bankers who plunged it into economic disaster – or the tax avoiders? It is selective anger.”

The exploitation by the bankers has been really a disaster. They have been their own worst enemy and in the end, they have become the symbol that inspires class warfare if not revolution. They are not the representatives of those who produce jobs. They are merely those who wanted to trade with other people’s money for free. When they win, it is their’s, but any losses are passed to the taxpayers. Bankers should be bankers – not hedge fund managers who keep 100% of the profits using other people’s savings.

Glass-Steagall Signing-Repeal

The repeal of Glass Steagall was the final straw that broke the back of the world economy. That was the single worst act that could have ever been done and we are now paying the price in spades. The collapse from 2007 has wiped out even the liquidity of the markets. The second worst act was the creation of the euro when the real goal was the federalization of Europe from the outset. That undermined the entire European banking system and has led to a serious undermining of the entire global economy.

The solutions from politics will always be the same – grab more power. We are in a downward spiral of liberty and how far we go down this path to the future will be determined by the people and if they at least wise up and see this is not class warfare, it is the people against government. This is why I say career politicians are dangerous for they can be bought way too easily as Clinton was to open the flood gates for the bankers.

This is not going to end pretty. The question is when does society wake up? Just how high will this price be that we have to pay? They will blame the rich and the idiots will cheer – get them. What will happen when there is no more wealth to hunt? We end up with a communist state by default – no wealth, just career politicians who blame everyone but themselves.

 

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Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:26 | 4905685 BadLibertarian
BadLibertarian's picture

Instead of taxes, why not just crowd source all 'government' spending? That way, you vote for what you get - with your dollars (subject to constitutional constraints). You just don't get to vote how other people's dollars are spent, which is how influence purchasing makes the system work now - spending a few million to control the spending of billions.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:38 | 4905701 CH1
CH1's picture

LOL... then how would the sociopaths get their jollies?

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 16:16 | 4905738 BadLibertarian
BadLibertarian's picture

That's what the Matrix is for. Let them run wild in virtual reality and stop fucking up this one. The technology isn't quite there yet, but once it is - hey guys, genocide without consequences - come on in and have fun. Or stick around out here, keep doing what you're doing, and risk decorating a lamp post - your choice.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:43 | 4905710 Top Gear
Top Gear's picture

The fantastic libertarian Perpetual Motion Machine. A cool idea that never works.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 16:11 | 4905734 BadLibertarian
BadLibertarian's picture

Never works? When has it been tried? What we do know with certainty is that the various means of forcing people to pay for what their 'betters' decide crashes and burns every single time.

So if you're not just a troll, then you must have a list of all the times this idea was tried and didn't work, right?

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 17:04 | 4905841 CH1
CH1's picture

He's just a troll.

Don't waste your time.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 16:04 | 4905740 g speed
g speed's picture

I got news for you ----gov't is obsolete---if you work for gov't then you are obsolete-- if you are an inforcer for gov'ts then you are obsolete---if you depend on gov't then you are irrelevant-- all that and this too, when you deside to kill everything cause you can't have control then you will end up dead meat ---just saying 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 18:16 | 4905972 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Of course it's obsolete.

Its biological basis is millions of years in the past - in the animal world.

That's why it is wholly destructive.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 18:20 | 4905980 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Top Gear - In what part of the article was libertarianism mentioned in Martin Armstrong's article?

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 21:16 | 4906262 conscious being
conscious being's picture

Relax ... "He's" an algo that spits out stupid off topic nonsense to get your goat.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 20:18 | 4906172 Omegaman2211
Omegaman2211's picture

What works for you is thousands of years of government slaughtering millions of people you sick sadistic fuck. Go hang.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 22:01 | 4906329 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

I'm going to post this a few places so folks are sure to see it:

 

Top Gear - You sir, are liar and a fraud.  You have been caught engaging in the worst kind of intellectual dishonesty.    You have intentionally misrepresented the content of an author for the sole purpose of bolstering your position and discrediting the positions of others.  If this were an academic or professional enterprise, your actions would be considered misconduct and you would be subject to reprimand, suspension, or even dismissal.

I would like to credit “nmewn” for bringing this to our attention.

To wit, see posts:  4904429 by Top Gear and 4904297 by nmewn:

Top Gear  4904429

"It cannot be denied that Fascism. . . saved European civilization. The merit that Fascism has thereby won for itself will live on eternally in history . . . its policy has brought salvation . . ."

~Ludwig von Mises, Liberalism

nmewn 4904297

(posting the complete, unredacted,  passage)

"It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has, for the moment, saved European civilization. The merit that Fascism has thereby won for itself will live on eternally in history. But though its policy has brought salvation for the moment, it is not of the kind which could promise continued success. Fascism was an emergency makeshift. To view it as something more would be a fatal error."

http://mises.org/liberal/ch1sec10.asp

 

Shame on you.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 23:27 | 4906459 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well done sir.

It is only by the actions of us that prevent the lies from spreading ;-)

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 23:49 | 4906480 Top Gear
Top Gear's picture

The rest of the quote you provide makes Mises look even more supportive of Fascism.

"Fascism was an emergency makeshift."

A splint on a broken leg before surgical repair is? an "emergency makeshift" that an emergency room doctor might apply over the weekend, until surgery opens on Monday.

So Mises is equating Fascism to an emergency room doctor. Dr. Fascism, Dr. Fascism! Capitalism needs "saved" (Mises' word) in room 204!

Thanks for showing us the rest of the paragraph, and helping prove my point.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 08:34 | 4906813 nmewn
nmewn's picture

To compare Mises to an emergency room doctor is to ignore the fact he wrote the book in question and said what he said about communism and fascism in...1927. 

Well before the horrors of communism and fascism were realized by the rest of the world.

If you are going to pursue this ridiculous line of Krugmanesqe reasoning, a much better analogy would be, that the good Dr. Mises saw young Maynard approaching him on a sidewalk and stopped him to tell him that Karl Marx would break both of Keynes' legs with a baseball bat in the future.

So now "Top Gear"...was Mises really just a newly minted emergency room doctor completing his residency at the local ER or was he in fact...clairvoyant?

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 17:00 | 4905834 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Glass-Steagall pretty much worked until repealed. 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 18:43 | 4906021 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

I will happily pay constitutional taxes, which by definition should mostly be state and local.  Fuck the feds, fuck them hard.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 00:01 | 4906492 Top Gear
Top Gear's picture

<<constitutional taxes, which by definition should mostly be state and local>>

Never read the Constitution?

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States.

Yet I bet you're against taxes, debts, and welfare.

 

 

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 00:08 | 4906500 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

How come the Constitution had to be ammended to tax individual income?

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 10:01 | 4906907 Agstacker
Agstacker's picture

Taxes were originally meant for corporations you moron.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:38 | 4905702 deKevelioc
deKevelioc's picture

Is this guy really MillionDollarBonus?

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 16:01 | 4905741 Anybody
Anybody's picture

No. This guy is worse. Like LL said, he is an algo, incapable of reply.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 17:55 | 4905933 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

MDB was outsourced....kinda like labor at mcD's.... forward USSA!!

http://www.neowin.net/images/uploaded/mcdts.jpg

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 18:37 | 4906003 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

I just updated my TOS on my site as I am relaunching. I noticed threadjacking was something that I did not permit nor will I now. I am open for disagreement, loved Galileo for his understanding of creating friction by debate and improved process.

However, I see no value proposition in Top Gear's commentary. Police are required with libertarianism if he wants to bring it up. Boot that piece of shit for threadjacking please.

And since he brought it up libertarianism did work, the Founders did it. The reality though is it cannot be maintained. The Founders new that too. It's devised to be a brake to slow down totalitarianism.

Central bankers are like the dwarves in the Lord of the Rings where Gandalf explains how the miners got too greedy, dug too deep and released the Balrog. JRR Tolkien wrote the trilogy in the 1930's similar times to ours. The nine ringraiths in the book are supposed to insinuate the council of nine of the Rothschilds.

Google Lord Acton and who he was and what he said about the issue being that over the centuries that it would be the people vs. the banks. Hint of who he was, a very powerful and wealthy British banker.

All that said banking has its place but I have a hunch it will eventually become a utility. As someone once quipped here just use Sim City engine for banking.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 16:07 | 4905757 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

MDB was at least funny.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 20:18 | 4906173 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

+1 for funny.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:46 | 4905716 deKevelioc
deKevelioc's picture

Who is this clown suit?  He appears to be another bourgeois piece of garbage.  What in the world attracted this clown to zerohedge?

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 16:04 | 4905747 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

"bourgeois" your the the only guy here who uses this term, to most folks in the world your it, but you know that right..

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 16:29 | 4905793 83_vf_1100_c
83_vf_1100_c's picture

"bourgeois"

 

member of the middle class, property owner...and that is bad how? I fall in that caegory myself.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 22:46 | 4906399 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

"Who is this clown suit?  He appears to be another bourgeois piece of garbage." Are you a clown and garbage as well or just dont like me defending you and your middle class standing.. Jeez reading comprehension much? The funniest thing, 7 idiots upvoted you..

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 19:19 | 4906078 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

What in the world attracted this clown to zerohedge?

His GS 1-1 pay check.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:49 | 4905718 orez65
orez65's picture

"Why no just re-regulate if deregulation caused all the problems?"

WTF??
You are a fu...ng mental moronic retard!!
What do you think the Federal Reserve is, a deregulator?
The Federal Reserve "regulates" currency and they are fu...ng everything up!!
You and the likes of you is why this country is so fu..ed up!

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 16:12 | 4905763 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Yeah, we can reinstate Glass-Steagall. Damage is done though. No going back to prior prosperity. Gone forever.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 18:46 | 4906030 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Vampy - I don't agree although the Central Bank model is an east/west rotation so better opps east is most likely scenario. And communism witg lengthy police state is not as prosperous as other scenarious so don't believe with a $12T true GDP America are the next Soviet Union.

The pensioneers at some point like the Soviets will get the axe by half at some point and government medical care is already getting restrictive like Soviets. The halycon days of being a .gov employee are coming to a close.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 16:27 | 4905788 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Because the regulations worked so well the last time?  Oh, wait, Citi and Travelers merged in violation of Glass-Stegal and congress retroactively got rid of the regulation.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 05:33 | 4906683 Top Gear
Top Gear's picture

Yeah, regulations don't work so well with murder either, 'cuz people keep doing it, so we may as well just get rid of them.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 17:05 | 4907805 hobopants
hobopants's picture

Another false analogy...

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 16:30 | 4905797 SumTing Wong
SumTing Wong's picture

OK, I'll feed the troll...

it isn't deregulation that is the problem. It's Uncle Scam selectively bailing out certain idiots who couldn't keep afloat.

Look...I'm all for no regulation. The banks and investing clubs need to tell what they are going to do and stick to it. Then all the investors know before they buy in. And if the bank fails to do what they said they will do, there needs to be enforcement of contracts. But there should absolutely be no backstopping by Govco. We need their asses out of it. When they get involved, we get moral hazard. And then there should be no misunderstanding of what will happen. SSDD.

Your turn, Gearhead.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 17:53 | 4905927 epobirs
epobirs's picture

Bingo. I'd far rather see regulation against bailouts than reinstatement of Glass-Steagall. As far as I care, people are welcome to do whatever kind of financial transactions they like, for good or ill.

BUT

They must face the consequences of their actions. The bailouts in the 80s for the S&L Crisis set a horrificly bad precedent. If someone wants to take an absurd level of risk in hopes of great reward, let them. If they're later found swinging by the neck from a lamp post, well, in the words of Sam Kinison, "I don't condone it but I understand it." Investors should be far more suspicious of dubious instruments like derivatives and those in the financial industry sould be far more risk averse as a result.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 22:19 | 4906365 WhackoWarner
WhackoWarner's picture

Bingo. I'd far rather see regulation against bailouts than reinstatement of Glass-Steagall. As far as I care, people are welcome to do whatever kind of financial transactions they like, for good or ill.

BUT

They must face the consequences of their actions. The bailouts in the 80s for the S&L Crisis set a horrificly bad precedent. If someone wants to take an absurd level of risk in hopes of great reward, let them. If they're later found swinging by the neck from a lamp post, well, in the words of Sam Kinison, "I don't condone it but I understand it." Investors should be far more suspicious of dubious instruments like derivatives and those in the financial industry sould be far more risk averse as a result.

Reply

When is the USA going to accept some responsibility?  Regulation of crime is a basic thing in moral behavior.  Seems the USA has absolutely no problem running jails for profit and executions for dubious crimes with convicts with IQ's of cabbages.

 

But USA takes all laws away from Mafioso upper-class idiots.  Gives free hand to it all. Bail them out. Refuses to prosecute one single criminal.  Passes wish lists to prosecute all other countries at will.  All while playing the last 9 holes.

Give your head a shake.  The whole wide world will rejoice in the USA downfall. That is a viewership of billions. We have waited for it. AND if you think there is no animosity here, You are deluded.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 00:04 | 4906494 Top Gear
Top Gear's picture

<<I'm all for no regulation>>

The biggest regulation of all is the artificial borders we draw on the earth called "private property" lines.

And the biggest government entitlement is Land Title.

Do you really hate private property that badly?

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 19:29 | 4906092 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  I think you're confusing regulation with cronyism.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 00:05 | 4906496 Top Gear
Top Gear's picture

A crony is a friend.

By your book, we should practice capitalism only with strangers or enemies.

For a halfwit like you, that may be all you have in any of your relationships with people.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 00:11 | 4906504 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

IMO crony capitalism refers to the unethically tight bonds that politicians have with certain "capitalists".

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 01:05 | 4906549 hobopants
hobopants's picture

 a close friend of someone; especially : a friend of someone powerful (such as a politician) who is unfairly given special treatment or favors

context dip shit, context. 

 

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 05:35 | 4906684 Top Gear
Top Gear's picture

Oh, so capitalism needs regulated to be fair. I see.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 15:40 | 4907658 hobopants
hobopants's picture

No as usual you have it ass backwards, government needs to be dismantled... regulation is the reason for cronyism. 

"It is my expert opinion, that top gear is an irredeemable retard"

-hobopants

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 20:12 | 4906156 caShOnlY
caShOnlY's picture

Why no just re-regulate if deregulation caused all the problems?

too late, moron.  The fuse is already lit.  click-click .....PULL!

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 20:13 | 4906158 Omegaman2211
Omegaman2211's picture

Smaller government has never caused a problem. Ever.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 00:07 | 4906498 Top Gear
Top Gear's picture

Said the Commie boy.

"Communism...movement to create...STATELESS social order..." ~/wiki/Communism‎
"Karl Marx hypothesized...STATELESS, humane society..." ~/wiki/Marxism
"Anarchism advocates STATELESS societies..." ~/wiki/Anarchism
"...the STATELESS society both anarchists and Marxists view as their end goal..." ~wiki/Anarchism_and_Marxism
"...anarchists and Marxists share an ultimate goal of a STATELESS society..." ~/wiki/Libertarian_Marxism
"...share an ultimate goal of a STATELESS society..." ~/wiki/Libertarian_socialism
"...share an ultimate goal of a STATELESS society..." ~/wiki/Libertarian_socialist

"This is no surprise, as libertarianism is basically the Marxism of the Right...Like Marxism, libertarianism offers the fraudulent intellectual security of a complete a priori account of the political good without the effort of empirical investigation. Like Marxism, it aspires, overtly or covertly, to reduce social life to economics."

~Robert Locke, Marxism of the Right, The American Conservative, March 14, 2005

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 00:52 | 4906538 forexskin
forexskin's picture

and your point is?

oh right, just another clever metrosexual savant with an portable opinion on...

everything.

STFU already

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 17:22 | 4907833 hobopants
hobopants's picture

Another false analogy...and this one recycled, dude you are on a role.

An aircraft and a car both have wheels, but they are not the same thing are they? but shit, maybe in your mind they are. 

Marxism is collectivist

Libertarianism is individualist

They are polar opposites, and Robert Locke is possibly the only person who qualifies as a bigger idiot than you lol, why on earth would you quote the words of a zionist and a demagouge?

 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 22:13 | 4906357 Apocalicious
Apocalicious's picture

80,000 pages of more laws every year for two decades, is this the deregulation you are referring to?

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 08:47 | 4906835 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Repeat the same things over and over again, and expecting a different result? Wow! There's an approach that has never been tried.

Deregulation did not cause this mess. Regulation did. Failing to deregulate everything merely results in pushing on a string. We saw the results of partial-deregulation, in California. We deregulated power distribution however power production was still heavily regulated. In the really real world, production trumps distribution every time. As a consequence of such half assed attempts to deregulate a single industry, we had brow-outs, fired our governor, and increased the size of government, yet again.

Government fucked it up again, but Enron got the blame.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 08:49 | 4906837 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Top Gear    Why no just re-regulate if deregulation caused all the problems?

-----

Deregulation?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0MCZ3FJXJJs/UA7zeOEIanI/AAAAAAAAFl8/N6z1g6k5XS...

 

There has hardly been any de regulation.

 

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 08:08 | 4909081 ATM
ATM's picture

It's regulation that caused the imbalances and legalized the thievery. What we need is to dergulate, wipe out pretty much all the legislation we have on the books and that will disempower the bureaucrats.

My isea is that all laws except for the constitution be cleared off the books every 20yrs. (probably really Jefferson's idea but I'll take credit).Then you can have a new constitutional convention to rework and not replace the basics.

From your post I'm assuming you are referrin to Glass Steagal being repealed. Yes that freed the banks to get into shit they should be doing but the real problem was that the banks were already government backed. If Glass Steagal was repealed so too should the FDIC. The Gov had to insure deposits to entice people toplace their money in these ponzi schemes. Without FDIC banks would have been forced to compete based on the safety of the bank and their abaility to give me my money back, rather than on the rate they can pay me.

Or in other words the banks that take the most risks got more of the business because they are all just as "safe". It's the regulations in the first place that led to the need for the Glass regulation. and then you need more to fix that and so on and so on.

The best course is to have everyone act in their own interests and suffer the consequences for poor choices. Instead our government wants to act like an unlimited bottle of Vicodin where no one should ever feel any pain because that buys votes and more power.

Deregulate and bring back winners and losers. 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 16:54 | 4905827 I need Another Beer
I need Another Beer's picture

I keep it simple K.I.S.S.. If U r a Democrat or supporter of the USChamber of commerce. HANG Motherfucker then BURN

Also, I have no use for Blue bellys, and U know who u r, or will soon

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 22:08 | 4906348 WhackoWarner
WhackoWarner's picture

Yeah what? Should have quoted the poster who laid off responsibility.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 12:20 | 4907113 G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture

"This is not going to end pretty. The question is when does society wake up?"

This will be directly contingent on the amount of cumulative economic pain the masses will suffer, both public and private!

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 17:04 | 4905842 Government need...
Government needs you to pay taxes's picture

With every incremental tyranny, I believe the US moves closer to the era of post-sovereign state.  As military killing power becomes exponentially concentrated in fewer hands, it becomes possible to force a 'detente' without having to field a multi-million standing army.  This, of course, assumes rational decision making.  Air Power is shifting to drones (cheaper, faster), and I assert the age of the aircraft carrier has come to an end, although we dont know it yet (much as the dreadnoughts were still considered naval flagships on the eve of WW2).  Naval ships are also becoming smaller, faster, and more stealthy.  We dont need all the military-industrial/state-subsidized industry to remain potent enough.  The era of incremental social programs is closing for a very different reason, namely that at least in the US, the nation cannot afford them.  As this progresses, it reduces another raison-d'etre for the traditional (now obsolete) nation state.  Economically, the US is being placed at a substantial competitive disadvantage due to taxation and regulation.  This is unsustainable, and will pass away as a reason for a bloated government structure.  Finally, the tyranny is becoming unbearable but I do not believe liberty and freedom are obsolete concepts.  I bought my first firearm after US due process was repealed via the 2012 NDAA legislation, and began training to stand for liberty.  Per your comment, the internet has disintermediated so many layers that used to feed the state beast that we're either going to become total slaves or totally free.  I choose freedom.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 19:08 | 4906065 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

Gov't need:  I find it interesting that everything you mention here was written about in Alvin Toffler's books "Powershift" and  "The Third Wave" over 20 years ago. Congrats to you for seeing these things yourself and for your personal shift on firearms ownership, training and the reasons for that.

Alvin Toffler, for any of you younger guys that may not know him, is a futurist/author who wrote "Future Shock" back in the early 70's.  His preditions of future conditions based on his interpretation of observations made decades ago are still playing out just as he calculated. 

If anything, the changes he foresaw continue today and are accelerating beyond linear into the unpredictable and wild oscillations inherent in unstable systems; usually observed just before they change state.  It's easy for ZHers to see the highly complex worldwide financial system as a high-order system that - with corrupted feedback loops like QE infinity, Zirp, Nirp, Greenspan put, etc., - has become less and less stable. Chaos theory is happening and we're about to write a new chapter
Sat, 06/28/2014 - 21:30 | 4906283 conscious being
conscious being's picture

Tofler's approach predicted the collapse of the USSR and then the US.  We got to out live the USSR because we had a somewhat less hierarchic system, ie. central planning.  

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 08:13 | 4909089 ATM
ATM's picture

"had a somewhat less hierarchic system"

 


Sat, 06/28/2014 - 17:22 | 4905852 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

@ LL "What we need is a new world disorder, a decentralized, networked world where we are free to express ourselves,.."

 

That could be a good sales pitch for the globalist.  Why don't we start thinking Nationally and do what we need to free our individual countries from statists and tyrants rather than dream of a better world for all.  Each country will go in the direction it wants to anyhow.  People in the middle east will not be "free to express themselves" becasue they don't want that, all we're doing is projecting our western values on other people.  We can't even get our own house in order yet we talk about how the world needs to be?  Makes no sense to me.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 23:05 | 4906423 Omegaman2211
Omegaman2211's picture

Funny how you get more upvotes than I do for basically saying the same fucking thing. Couldn't possibly be your avatar for these lonley losers, could it?

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 14:00 | 4907370 XitSam
XitSam's picture

No, it is because you deny their mythological sky fairie. Their logic says they must deny all other things you say.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 15:01 | 4907546 PrintemDano
PrintemDano's picture

Did someone hurt your precious feelings?  Everyone please give Omega some up-votes, he wants his participation trophy.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 05:48 | 4906695 hairInTheSoup
hairInTheSoup's picture

"when order is not just, disorder is a beginning of justice" (Romain Rolland, one century ago)

so today, if their order is really an order then it's a huge mess we're in need to restore some justice !

but if the mess is once again orchestrated by the parasites that be , we're screwed,
if the dogs don't turn their weapons on them we're screwed... again and again and again.

so it's consciousness war and when global consciousness is raised, it's a harmonious global and balanced order, free of police and army and other likewise parasites and their masters that will emerge (because their order is such a mess, because conscious people don't need to be ordered what to do and how to do it to maintain a balanced and peaceful environment)

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 11:43 | 4907064 Firepower
Firepower's picture

The "de-centralizers" will SURELY centralize their selection of "good cronies".

Entropy states the only way out is more likely a

Planet of The Apes scenario...with the apes played by - you can guess!

eradica.wordpress.com/2014/04/22/the-ocean-of-blood/

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 14:46 | 4905606 UGrev
UGrev's picture

Anarchsim (Without RulErs) +

Commie-fuck-ism (Without Lube) -

 

True progress, Omega.. I could go for a world without rulERs.. and just to clarify my POV, I do not mean a world without RULES. 

 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:03 | 4905636 Top Gear
Top Gear's picture

Anarchism = Communism.

• "Communism...movement to create...STATELESS social order..." ~/wiki/Communism‎
• "Karl Marx hypothesized...STATELESS, humane society..." ~/wiki/Marxism
• "Anarchism advocates STATELESS societies..." ~/wiki/Anarchism
• "...the STATELESS society both anarchists and Marxists view as their end goal..." ~wiki/Anarchism_and_Marxism
• "...anarchists and Marxists share an ultimate goal of a STATELESS society..." ~/wiki/Libertarian_Marxism
• "...share an ultimate goal of a STATELESS society..." ~/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

"This is no surprise, as libertarianism is basically the Marxism of the Right...Like Marxism, libertarianism offers the fraudulent intellectual security of a complete a priori account of the political good without the effort of empirical investigation. Like Marxism, it aspires, overtly or covertly, to reduce social life to economics."  ~Robert Locke, Marxism of the Right, The American Conservative, March 14, 2005

 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:07 | 4905644 hobopants
hobopants's picture

Private property being a major difference, you simplify too much. Sharing one similar characteristic does not make a thing the same as another.  

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:14 | 4905662 Top Gear
Top Gear's picture

It's a halfwit's pipedream that anarchy will preserve private property. Anarchy will lead to Despotism, just like communism did.

• "Our falling into anarchy would decide forever the destinies of mankind, and seal the political heresy that man is incapable of self-government." ~Thomas Jefferson, to John Hollins, 1811

• "The voluntary support of laws, formed by persons of their own choice, distinguishes peculiarly the minds capable of self-government. The contrary spirit is anarchy, which of necessity produces DESPOTISM." ~Thomas Jefferson to Philadelphia Citizens, 1809

• "...repairs to the standard of the laws. Do this, and you need never fear anarchy or tyranny. Your government will be? perpetual." ~Thomas Jefferson, Manuscript, c. 1801

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:21 | 4905674 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Anarchy as commonly used, is not Anarchism

Norway & Switzerland rank highest/closest of existing States to a state of true Anarchy, yet no one with two synapses to rub together would postulate that either State lacks laws.

http://www.anarchy.no/ija137.html

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:33 | 4905695 Top Gear
Top Gear's picture

Anarchy isn't anarchism?  Norway and Switzerland are a "true" anarchy? Shoot, by your definition, it's all anarchy nowadays. LOL!

"It's all ball bearings nowadays!" ~Fletch (1985)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4prqDn7QS8I

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:51 | 4905700 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The Tylers need to bring back the captcha.

READING COMPREHENSION, retard.

"closest to" should have tipped you off, if not you could have simply click the link and READ, then tried to COMPREHEND.

edit: read up on the Hague Congress in 1872 and the schism between Marxism and Anarchism, which have been distinct and divergent philosophies since the former expelled the Jura Federation and Trade Unionists because they viewed Marxism as simply replacing one ruling elite with another.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 18:58 | 4908072 general ambivalent
general ambivalent's picture

To be clear, anarchists and communists are both socialists. The difference is that anarchists believe in socialism without a state, and communists in the marxist sense believe in dictatorship of the proletariat - essentially an anarchic state of labour for everyone. (Marx did believe in a stateless society, but he felt the only way to get there was through seizing the state absolutely.)

Much of our understanding of communism is extremely distorted due to the Soviet Union, which is more appropriately state capitalist, and all the years of McCarthyist propaganda. Generally, communists and anarchists believe in human community (gemeinwesen, the fascists used a similar term, volksgemeinschaft), small groups and societies with the most minimal amount of laws and hierarchy possible. The problem is that all ideologies can be corrupted quite easily, and ideas tend to flatten out the more people adhere to them. Much like any state, revolution, or group, there are statists, agents, academics, and general fools who infiltrate groups either on purpose or just by accident (just like the 'trolls' who post here, some are agents, some are trolls, and some may simply be ignorant through no fault of their own).

What is most interesting looking back at Mikhail Bakunin's critique of Marx is that you can see something of a 'prediction' of the disaster that was the Russian Revolution. He was a brilliant man, and one of the very few who had an interesting critique of Marx and not simply reaction (as most people today).

And on the topic of evolution and God, another anarchist, Kropotkin, was one of the first to critique Darwinian theory, suggesting that cooperation rather than competition was the driving force of evolution. This was nearly 100 years before biologists seriously began studying the same ideas here in the West.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 22:47 | 4908624 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Shhh... It's fun watching TG make an idiot of himself with "right wing anarchism". From the somewhat agnostic perspective of a confederationalist/antifederalist- it takes the L/R or D/R false paradigms to a whole new surreal level.

The evolution of thought is somewhat harder to manipulate through simple copy and paste jobs than simple quotations. Case in point- Social Darwinism as distinct from the natural selection argued by Darwin.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 17:58 | 4905939 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

I ran out of downvotes for the day....see you tomorrow though!

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 16:18 | 4905774 Lynn Trainor
Lynn Trainor's picture

You are getting a lot of down votes, Top Gear, but I think you are spot on!

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 20:46 | 4906220 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

You need to stop going to college then.  You have been brainwashed to believe up is down, bad is good, war is peace, and every type of stawman and mis/disinformation argument put out.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 19:18 | 4908131 UGrev
UGrev's picture

You're another fucking, pants-on-head retard that needs to set himself on fire.  

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 20:48 | 4906225 paint it red ca...
paint it red call it hell's picture

The Despots are in charge now, have delivered to us an economic, political and potential social collapse, and in all likelihood have prepared and will offer us the next fraud they intend to perpetrate upon humanity...

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 19:17 | 4908124 UGrev
UGrev's picture

Oh for fucks sake. Shut the fuck up already as you have no fucking clue what Anarchy is. It doesn't mean communism.. it means Without RULERS and is understood to mean individual rights. Always has, always will. That certainly is NOT communism.. so again, fuck off and choke on a cock. 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 16:02 | 4905742 rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

@Top Gear.....you are really good at quoting other people. I've never seen so many quotation marks. But the question is: do you have an original thought of your own or must you always regurgitate those of others? I mean really, you are obviously terrific when it comes to analyzing Wikipedia or Wikiquote but how about a little critical thinking for yourself. Anarchism = Communism? Come on. You don't really believe that do you? I'm an anarchist / voluntaryist myself so have studied the matter a bit and put it into practice as much as possible over the last few decades. Anarchism is about as far from communism as one can get. Real anarchism and not the Occupy Wall Street variety which in fact is communism disguised as anarchism. It's about the same as Ted Cruz or Rand Paul being called libertarians when the facts belie that. I know you want to come off as some sort of intellectual but really dude, you just sound foolish most of the time. 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 16:09 | 4905758 hobopants
hobopants's picture

Ya...This pretty much sums up his modus operandi:

"The practice of quoting out of context, sometimes referred to as "contextomy", is a logical fallacy and a type of false attribution in which a passage is removed from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its intended meaning.[1] Contextomies are stereotypically intentional, but may also occur accidentally if someone misinterprets the meaning and omits something essential to clarifying it, thinking it non-essential.

Arguments based on this fallacy typically take two forms:

  1. As a straw man argument, which is frequently found in politics, it involves quoting an opponent out of context in order to misrepresent their position (typically to make it seem more simplistic or extreme) in order to make it easier to refute.
  2. As an appeal to authority, it involves quoting an authority on the subject out of context, in order to misrepresent that authority as supporting some position.[2]

In either case, while quoting a person out of context can be done intentionally to advance an agenda or win an argument, it is also possible to remove essential context without the aim to mislead, through not perceiving a change in meaning or implication that may result from quoting what is perceived as the essential crux of a statement."

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 20:49 | 4906227 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

It's shocking that a mainstream apparatus would attack libertarians.  They attack anyone who threatens their hold on power.  Didn't Karl Rove create a PAC to fight, not the left, but the Tea Party right?

You are a fool thinking anyone here is going to buy your schtick unless they also are paid agents of disinformation.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 22:14 | 4906359 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yes and they had to resort to bringing in demorats to keep Cochran from getting his ass whipped in the Miss. primary, same as it ever was.

The Establishment doesn't like competition...ever.

But but but...where have all the Diebold freaks gone? ;-)

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 23:06 | 4906424 Omegaman2211
Omegaman2211's picture

Dangle from a lightpost, old man.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 05:38 | 4906686 Top Gear
Top Gear's picture

Anarchists = Murderers.  Admitted.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 17:49 | 4907886 hobopants
hobopants's picture

gross generalization fallacy

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 05:55 | 4906703 hairInTheSoup
hairInTheSoup's picture

a world without RULES doesn't mean a world without DUTIES.

RULES & LAWS are privileges

if you don't get that, you've missed something on the path.

a world run by laws or rules will never be fair, only a world run by duties can be, even if it sounds like utopia, it is in fact only about education and love.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 14:50 | 4905610 JimboSC
JimboSC's picture

Yeah, 'cause this time, it'll be different.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:22 | 4905678 Seer
Seer's picture

Sigh, violence is part of the human package.  As long as we continue to grow we will find it necessary to encroach on others' turf, which then pretty much means violence.

I'm in agreement about having a world without governments, not so much as it being based on personal preference, but of it being base more along the lines of "what WILL be."  Expect the tradeoff to be that large-scale violence (State/govt) gets replaced by smaller-scale violence which takes place on a more frequent basis.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 16:15 | 4905769 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Great, the Malthusians have checked in..  Its a real big ball of dirt..

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 16:21 | 4905770 Zoomorph
Zoomorph's picture

A world without violence is a world without life. Only way we'll get to that "ideal" is to nuke the planet to oblivion.

A world without government doesn't sound too plausible, either. It sounds like some dream of "equality" which will never be realized unless everyone is lobotomized by a machine as they pop out of the birth canal.

The dreams of idiots....

The fact that the majority have such dreams and ideals is a pretty strong argument for having governments (not that such an argument is needed). These people would destroy the world if they could for the sake of a little security and comfort.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 16:27 | 4905792 GOLDTRADERRR
GOLDTRADERRR's picture

Sounds wonderful...but, it will never happen.

There will always be some thug who wants what you have and is willing to kill you to get it.

When two or more thugs realize they can't steal enough by themselves alone, they will band together and create a gang that can steal even more than they could individually.

Eventually, they will call themselves KINGS, DICTATORS, or THE GOVERNMENT.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 17:41 | 4905904 drendebe10
drendebe10's picture

Frackin gummint: ctrl-alt-del

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 20:40 | 4906209 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Oh grow up.  How can you dismiss inate human nature as if what has been happening is simply due to a "system" and not the humans who manipulate it?

As long as there are humans there will be violence and humans will use government to control violence.  Wish upon a star and no matter how lucky you are, if there is someone who wants something from you bad enough, they will kill you for it.

 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 20:47 | 4906224 Silveramada
Silveramada's picture

long pitchforcks ...

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 23:50 | 4906436 Frankie Carbone
Frankie Carbone's picture

Will participate in unrest if all hell breaks loose. 

Will let the masses tear themselves and the machine apart if all hell breaks loose. 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 23:31 | 4906462 tempo
tempo's picture

Pelosi on the border, then heads back 300 miles to a $100 million gated, guarder complex with drones ready to kill anyone who steps within 50 miles of her living space.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 01:43 | 4906581 Which is worse ...
Which is worse - bankers or terrorists's picture

I can't help but wonder if that statue of Gavrilo Princip they are erecting this isn't large enough. The world is waiting for its next Tunisian fruit seller, or its next Gavrilo Princip.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 07:32 | 4906766 Edward Boothe
Edward Boothe's picture

There are a lot of people who will die fighting before they let Barrack Hussein Obama make this coutry a Communist Dictatorship

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 20:00 | 4908248 ich1baN
ich1baN's picture

That's exactly what Che Guevara and his revolutionaries dreamed for, except they had numerous summary trial executions of their enemies and even innocents that were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Anarchy inevitably will always lead to whatever strongman and his cadres want to do to those who hold positions of authority.... it is not the answer to the problem we have. The best form of government is the Constitutional Republic, it is only when the political elites start to distort the true meanings of what our institutions stand for that we run into problems. It still is and will always be the truest and fairest form of justice. Save the constitution, embrace it, teach it, and you will have saved your future prospect. 

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 20:07 | 4908273 mic68
mic68's picture

Oh yes anarchy has always been synonyms with non violance. Occupy Much? 

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 00:12 | 4908765 ThirteenthFloor
ThirteenthFloor's picture

Most likely the (NWO, elite, Empire) will get upset and flip the tables when their little Westphalian Economy crashes, without a sot landing.   The flip of those tables will be pretty nasty. If you are fond of a caveman lifestyle, assuming you can survive radiation, and bio-weapons...then it may not be so bad.

A soft landing, what I think you are suggeting, i.e., a surgical removal of the elite is highly improbable, they have survived 2000 years pretty good.

I think in all probably they will move the US to the IMF, collect all tender and financial instruments (gold and silver), convert to SDR's, re-access your property and loans.  If you fight this you end up in a FEMA camp as slave labor.

All things end bad otherwise they wouldn't end.  Sorry for the dark picture, but I do not see anyone carrying a light here.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 14:47 | 4905608 aardwolf
aardwolf's picture

CREATE DEBT FREE MONEY!!!

 

END HUMAN SLAVERY NOW!!!

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:11 | 4905656 Top Gear
Top Gear's picture

Money = Debt (even gold is just debt)

Time for you to read some real history and anthropology instead of libertarian comic books.

"...historically, credit money comes first..."

"There’s no fundamental difference in this respect between a silver dollar, a Susan B. Anthony dollar coin made of a copper-nickel alloy designed to look vaguely like gold, a green piece of paper with a picture of George Washington on it, or a digital blip on some bank’s computer. Conceptually, the idea that a piece of gold is really just an IOU is always rather difficult to wrap one’s head around, but something like this must be true, because even when gold and silver coins were in use, they almost never circulated at their bullion value."

David Graeber (2011) Debt: The First 5, 000 Years http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:22 | 4905677 hobopants
hobopants's picture

The cartalist view of money you're espousing here has been proven false time and time again, I suggest you read up on the catallactic perspective.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:26 | 4905686 Top Gear
Top Gear's picture

Yeah, creationists say evolution has been disproven over and over again too. *yawn* But I like how persistent you are.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:38 | 4905697 hobopants
hobopants's picture

Ok so you've some how concluded that a debate on evolution is the same as a debate on monetary theory? "one of these things is not like the other" Try an argument, instead of nonsense.

Since you like quotes so much

"A false analogy is a rhetorical fallacy that uses an analogy (comparing objects or ideas with similar characteristics) to support an argument, but the conclusion made by it is not supported by the analogy due to the differences between the two objects.[1] Sometimes these differences are outright ignored by the person presenting the fallacy; other times, they may not be aware of the differences or that they apply. The fallacy occurs, and is common, because analogies are just that, analogies, and their parallels are always limited; the differences between things can often overpower their similarities. One thing people sometimes do for fun is extend a useful analogy or metaphor to the point of absurdity."

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 16:18 | 4905772 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Its software stop wasting your time arguing with it..  No one types that fast with that level of reliance on quotes.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 16:23 | 4905780 hobopants
hobopants's picture

I think it's just a troll with a set of scripted arguments on a clipboard, but I'm bored and it's mildly amusing trying to get an actual debate out of him. 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 17:18 | 4905861 Mr. Pickles
Mr. Pickles's picture

Engaging a troll with reason and logic is a worthy effort. You will likely never change a troll's mind, but many people that are on the fence will see the exchange. They may hold some of the troll's opinions. A reasoned rebuttal will possibly reach these fence sitters. Maybe it plants a seed, or causes them to do more research. Trolls hate a reasoned response for this exact reason. A troll wins when the responder devolves to trolling back, as the fence sitter will see that as a win for the original troll, which reinforces the fence sitters original opinion. Trolls are an opportunity to reach others, but it all depends on how you engage the troll. Reasoning with a troll is like pouring hot coals upon their head.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 18:44 | 4906013 pakled
pakled's picture

So funny. I'm cruising through the comments from bottom to top... but from reading this comment I knew exactly who was going to be near the top of this sub-thread.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 22:15 | 4906330 Zoomorph
Zoomorph's picture

I just want to point out that calling someone a troll is often just a great way to avoid having to take what they say seriously. Just because you find someone's argument outside your comfort zone or contrary to popular opinion does not make them a troll. If they are using fallacies, dodging the question, and seem more interested in getting a response out of you than debating the actual issue, then they'd qualify as a troll.

I'm occasionally accused of trolling when I'm just providing an honest rebuttal. I haven't read much from Top Gear before, but I'm not sure that he's a troll either. I have yet to see anyone actually rebut his seemingly-intelligent arguments or show where he's wrong, just a lot of downvoting and a general smug feeling of superiority in those who dislike him.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 23:14 | 4906432 hobopants
hobopants's picture

"If they are using fallacies, dodging the question, and seem more interested in getting a response out of you than debating the actual issue."

This is pretty much all he has done since he started posting here a week ago, see above for a list of fallacies I've pointed out, and some fine examples of him dodging the question or just bailing out when the argument doesn't go his way.

The guy has no interest in honest debate, he just tosses out the same series of out of context, inflammatory quotes, and then moves on to the next comment thread...

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 23:14 | 4906444 Frankie Carbone
Frankie Carbone's picture

Not to mention the pure enjoyment of humiliating them and inducing emotional pain and suffering in the troll. 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 17:32 | 4905883 knukles
knukles's picture

Darwin's evolution came from the swamp.
The evolutionists have yet to explain from whence the swamp came.

So whatchur point?

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 17:49 | 4905920 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Don't you have a completely irrelevant quote to really drive that point home like Top Gear? ;-)

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 21:14 | 4906254 Blano
Blano's picture

Hey, at least his last sentence isn't so tiny I can barely read it even with glasses.  : )

Disclaimer: I love knucks

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 23:17 | 4906452 nmewn
nmewn's picture

lol...me too.

Knukles is as sane as you or I, he just releases his inner chakra here, instead of clubbing his leftwing golf buddies to death on a public course.

See, he's really just a great humanitarian ;-)

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 12:31 | 4907142 RevRex
RevRex's picture

And idiot dooshbags never imagine that evolution could have been created by God.....

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:36 | 4905699 Seer
Seer's picture

All is fine on the chalkboard.  When it is exposed to the REAL world things become a bit tarnished.  I don't care how great something is on the chalkboard, IF if is predicated on perpetual growth then it WILL fail: and this is no theory, it's mathematical FACT.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:49 | 4905719 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

It's true that gold is simply a transfer mechanism for present or future goods but the difference with gold and seashells is that mining new gold represents the labor and capital invested vs seashells that can be picked up at will.

Gold and silver have the historical advantage as being universally accepted as a cancellation of debt because it's value is transferable.

Much handier than carting clay tablets or a tally-stick.

Conceptually, the idea that a piece of gold is really just an IOU is always rather difficult to wrap one’s head around, but something like this must be true, because even when gold and silver coins were in use, they almost never circulated at their bullion value."

If gold and silver are just debt markers, than how can bullion have ANY value?

The only thing difficult about wrapping ones head around is his circular arguement.

 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 19:05 | 4906062 rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

@Top Gear - I double dog dare you to write a comment without quoting someone else. Not just one or two lines but a real honest to goodness comment of a couple of paragraphs of original thought. Let everyone see the real you as opposed to the guy who has perfected the art of cutting and pasting from Wikiquote or some other source then hitting those cute little bold, italic and underscore buttons. So, there you go. Your assignment, if you choose to accept it is to write a comment on a Zero Hedge topic of say...two hundred words of original Tog Gear thinking. Maybe you'll stop racking up so many down arrows.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 10:02 | 4906908 Agstacker
Agstacker's picture

Gold is not debt you moron, it is money, always has been and always will be.  

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:23 | 4905679 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

The euro was all about creating the feudalization of Europe...not "federalization."

To make the people beholden to a "debt regime" that "they" would have to repay. (money is the same for all of us...but not all debts are created equal. Some are written off, some are ignored, some expropriated, etc...etc.)

The "democracitizer" as it were is default...where the number is just so high it can only be repaid "with interest."

The mistake was in the securities business...not the banks. By "securitizing" the debt (in effect making the Government the explicit back stop of Lehman, Merrill, Bear/Stearn, Morgan Stanley, etc...etc..) Fannie and Freddie were knocking out the one private pillar that stood between "risk" and "reward"...namely the Banks.

Shove all the shit paper in the banks, insure it all by AIG...get a guarantee from your "bros" in Congress. "Best deal ever."

2008 was really simple. What isn't simple is "what is being socialized exactly?" In short "what Government Agencies are going to be obliterated so we can fire up the socialized risk bandwagon again?" The war effort? Check. The post office? Check. Department of Transportation? Check. Detroit? Check.

Israel? OH, NO...WAIT A MINUTE HERE YOU COMMIE!

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 14:50 | 4905616 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

I am sorry to say but until we get rid of the root of all evil nothing will change , before you snear at this think about it it could work , we need to start a time of evolution where the human race gets rid of money and becomes responsible for humans and the planet , it would not happen over night but it could happen , the only thing is , is that we would have to have a major reset .

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:07 | 4905645 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

Ah, I hate to splash water on your fire, but it is the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil.

Money in and of itself is inanimate and without the ability to be good or evil.

DaddyO

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:24 | 4905681 Top Gear
Top Gear's picture

Let me give you a tip on a clue to men’s characters: the man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it.

“Francisco’s Money Speech”
http://capitalismmagazine.com/2002/08/franciscos-money-speech/

Of course, Ayn Rand wasn't perfect. She thought war and money were something of opposites. They're not. War is the root of all money, as anthropologist David Graeber has shown.

So it's time to love war just as much. War is a Racket? Hell, yeah!  It's what we hairless great apes do best!

Who says evolution can't be profitable?

Human Hands Evolved for Fighting, Study Suggests
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/human-hands-evolved-for-fighting/

 

 

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:45 | 4905714 Seer
Seer's picture

You're close, but...

ALL WARS ARE ABOUT RESOURCES.  Period!

There are a couple "survival" issues in all of this.  That is, there are two things vying for survival:

1) Humans themselves;

2) Civilizations.

In the first case we're less talking "profit" than survival for one's/an individual's life.

In the second case we're talking about a "system."  And given that all such "systems" ultimately fail due to overshoot (growth) it's a matter of trying to perpetuate the system for as long as possible: those promoting the "system" will NEVER talk about the fact of its certain, eventual demise.  Such "systems" are usually most hotly contended by a small subset of its individuals who tend to live off of the collective labors of others: think of folks like Dick Cheney who froth for others to go and die when they themselves will do everything possible to avoid placing themselves in harms way.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 19:04 | 4906058 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Seer - They will never talk about its demise. What's this then?
"This sucker is going down." GW Bush. Hyperbole can make an astute mind seem ignorant. Try words based on Likert scale such as "few" then your comment would have been bang on.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 16:04 | 4905748 Chuck Knoblauch
Chuck Knoblauch's picture

Shove a Tally Stick up your ass!

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 16:09 | 4905760 teslaberry
teslaberry's picture

money is like squirrel nuts. in fact historically, stored grains salts and other long term stored edibles served as money. currently they are still 'warehoused' , and financed. the soybean trade uses soybean reserves in a warehouse to finance (i.e. CREATE MONEY) for other transactions. 

 

so really---food that does not quickly spoil is a GOOD THING. enduring non-spoiling ability to EAT is the basis for many species, not simply human beings, ability to eat. 

 

while squirrels stockpile their nuts---the NUT itself is a stored form of energy that lasts for quite a while without spoiling, enabling MANY species to eat them wherever they are found . 

 

the value of salt and spice was in part high for many uses, one of them being to STORE food by SALTING IT. thereby imparting value to MEATS that would otherwise have less value without the ability to store them for longer periods. 

smoking, salting and spicing . 

 

so why? why are these things the root of evil? when they are turned into --or traded for---paper notes or minted coins? or seashells? or baubels?

 

they are not evil, they are powerful tools with which to create energy, organizing human beings and allowing human beings to organize their own and others' affairs. 

 

without lasting value---we'd still be living like cave men. 

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 05:45 | 4906693 Top Gear
Top Gear's picture

money is like...

No.

Money is Debt. Always has been. Even gold.

And markets are a byproduct of the need to feed the military.

"...money and markets do not emerge spontaneously...if one simply hands out coins to the soldiers and then demands that every family in the kingdom was obliged to pay one of those coins back to you, one would, in one blow, turn one’s entire national economy into a vast machine for the provisioning of soldiers, since now every family, in order to get their hands on the coins, must find some way to contribute to the general effort to provide soldiers with things they want. Markets are brought into existence as a side effect."

David Graeber (2011) Debt: The First 5, 000 Years http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

Anthropology trumps libertarian coloring books every day.

 

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 17:47 | 4907880 hobopants
hobopants's picture

More Chartalist drivel, look at Grisham's law if you wanna see how that theory plays out in the real world, and Anthropology is a joke of a "science", nearly as bad as mainstream economics.

 

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 10:03 | 4906910 Agstacker
Agstacker's picture

You sure seem to love David Graeber, do you wipe his ass?

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 20:25 | 4908316 Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

I think he was traumatized at an early age by Libertarian coloring books.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 16:34 | 4905801 Zoomorph
Zoomorph's picture

I hate to spash water on your fire, but "root of all evil" is such a childish concept, as is the idea of eliminating "evil".

Good and evil are two sides to the same coin. You eliminate one and you eliminate the other as well. It's a logical impossiblity. Now if you want to know what "evil" really means, try reading Nietzsche who wrote extensively on it.

Hint: it's not some physical object, it's a value judgement made by one type of person against another.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 02:21 | 4906600 Adahy
Adahy's picture

Money, in and of itself, is entirely a human construct like 'fair', and 'free'; and in reality, does not exist at all.

It's power over other people and greed (same thing?) that are the root of all evil.  That's what it is all really about if you pay close enough attention to the translations all the way back.  Money is just the representation of power and greed.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:11 | 4905654 Rattling Bones
Rattling Bones's picture

Yeah, we could have a guilding philosophy, something like: 'From each according to his ability, to each according to his need', or something like that.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 05:51 | 4906698 Top Gear
Top Gear's picture

The Bible, say you?

"...to each according to his ability." ~Matthew 25:15

"...and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need." ~Acts 4:35

"...not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them." ~ Acts 4:32

"...the daily distribution." ~Acts 6:1

"...your liberal distribution..." 2 Corinthians 9:13

Redistribution.  It's Biblical.

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 11:21 | 4907022 rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

@Top Gear - Man, you just never stop do you? Again, you can quote until the cows come home but often times it is way out of context. If you are going to bring Christendom into the argument then...okay, let's get it on. First of all there is a huge difference between "distribution" in a Christian context and "confiscation and re-distribution" in a government sense. Yes, Christians are encouraged to give a portion of their assets / wealth / income to those in need but nowhere, NOWHERE will you find Paul or anyone else advocating doing it by force. Salvation is a personal choice, an option if you will. We are all endowed with free will and can use it in a variety of ways. Christ never forced anyone to bend to His will or do anything. Instead He gave people choices - "do this or this will happen". There is a huge difference between Christians providing for one another or those in need out of love and compassion and government using the barrel of gun to force people to give to one another. Before you go pontificating by using bible verses way out of context why don't you actually study how Christianity was practiced in the first three centuries. Find an example in those writings of force being used to distribute wealth among Christians. I dare you to do so. 

Sun, 06/29/2014 - 12:33 | 4907149 RevRex
RevRex's picture

Abitdodgie....'it is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt'

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 14:52 | 4905621 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Clinton might be more reviled for his Glass-Steagall mistake than his intern philandering.

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:18 | 4905668 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> his Glass-Steagall mistake

No fan of Clinton, but the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act  was a Republican monster that was veto proof when it hit Clinton's desk.  I might have a shred of respect for Clinton (just kidding, couldn't happen) if he'd had the character to veto it and let the Congress overide his veto, but he didn't .

Sat, 06/28/2014 - 15:57 | 4905731 Seer
Seer's picture

Here's the (affirming) record:

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/106-1999/s105

Sad, it was during Reagan's administration that the restraints on the financial sector started to be removed.  And the unfortunate fact is that during Reagan's administration govt bloat really took off (despite Reagan's talk of wanting less govt).  I'm not taking shots at Reagan here as I believe that it really matters little who is in office, that it was all predestined for collapse based on our premise of perpetual growth: the signal flare of the end of growth was during the Nixon administration (US effectively defaulted on its debts by making the USD total fiat); since that time it's just been smoke and mirrors, with the financials being able to serve as the great obfuscators of our situation (their books can be tweaked to hide our reality, for a while).

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