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Dear US Soldiers And Veterans: Avoid The Following Hospitals Like The Plague
The VA scandal was just the beginning.
According to Internal documents obtained by New York Times, US military healthcare is "a system in which scrutiny is sporadic and avoidable errors are chronic." As the NYT reports In Military Care, a Pattern of Errors but Not Scrutiny, "the military system has consistently had higher than expected rates of harm and complications in two central parts of its business — maternity care and surgery."
Among the findings:
- More than 50,000 babies are born at military hospitals each year, and they are twice as likely to be injured during delivery as newborns nationwide, the most recent statistics show. And their mothers were more likely to hemorrhage after childbirth than mothers at civilian hospitals, according to a 2012 analysis conducted for the Pentagon.
- In surgery, half of the system’s 16 largest hospitals had higher than expected rates of complications over a recent 12-month period, the American College of Surgeons found last year. Four of the busiest hospitals have performed poorly on that metric year after year.
As the NYT observes, "based on Pentagon studies, court records, analyses of thousands of pages of data, and interviews with current and former military health officials and workers, indicates that the military lags behind many civilian hospital systems in protecting patients from harm. The reasons, military doctors and nurses said, are rooted in a compartmentalized system of leadership, a culture of interservice secrecy and an overall failure to make patient safety a top priority."
One would think that when caring for the nation's veterans, the healthcare system - whose very existence one can say is a direct function of the US military's intervention around the globe - would pay particular attention. One would be wrong: the military’s reports show a steady stream of the sort of mistakes that patient-safety programs are designed to prevent.
The most common errors are strikingly prosaic — the unread file, the unheeded distress call, the doctor on one floor not talking to the doctor on another. But there are also these, sprinkled through the Pentagon’s 2011 and 2012 patient-safety reports:
- A viable fetus died after a surgeon operated on the wrong part of the mother’s body.
- A 41-year-old woman’s healthy thyroid gland was removed because someone else’s biopsy result had been recorded on her chart.
- A 54-year-old retired officer suffered acute kidney failure and permanent hearing loss after an incorrect dose of chemotherapy.
- In 2011, 50 unexpected deaths were identified but only 25 analyses submitted.
- The next year, the center was informed of 110 deaths but received only 44 root-cause analyses.
- In 2013, the report documented 79 deaths and 31 root-cause analyses.
The NYT slams a system rife with abuse: "The patient-safety system is broken," Dr. Mary Lopez, a former staff officer for health policy and services under the Army surgeon general, said in an interview.
“It has no teeth,” she added. “Reports are submitted, but patient-safety offices have no authority. People rarely talk to each other. It’s ‘I have my territory, and nobody is going to encroach on my territory.’ ”
In an internal report in 2011, the Pentagon’s patient-safety analysts offered this succinct conclusion about military health care: “Harm rate — unknown.”
In short, America's veterans and military forces: proud recipients of the worst health care America has to offer.
We sincerely urge US veterans to avoid the following military hospitals like the plague.
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The fewer living veterans there are, the smaller the risk of them becoming domestic terrorists. This is the Administration's logic.
Dear US soldiers,
Actually defend the Constitution and i'll personally pay your medical bills.
Sincerely,
A person who doesn't give a shit that you got your leg blown off fighting for bankers in the Middle East
The problem with government run anything is, no one ever get fired when they fuck up. There are zero consequences for fucking up, so it happens all the time.
Obamacare is nothing more than a way to kill millions legally. Duhhh. The Vets are no different.
Government does three things well.
1. Kill people.
2. Steal.
3. Law and order. Often used to perform task on and two.
Just fucking pick one of the three and that is their motive. It’s not rocket science.
"The reasons, military doctors and nurses said, are rooted in a compartmentalized system of leadership, a culture of interservice secrecy and an overall failure to make patient safety a top priority."
Wait a second. You are saying that bureaucracy and medicine don't mix???
Uh oh.
WHY THE FUCK IS THE MILITARY CONCERNING ITSELF WITH "MATERNITY CARE"???
IF YOU ARE CAPABLE OF PRODUCING BABIES THEN YOU SHOULD NOT BE A PART OF KILLING SOMEONE ELSE'S.
GET THE FUCKING WOMEN OUT OF THE MILITARY.
I am Chumbawamba.
I'm sure many of them are wives of servicemen.
For example, my sister was born in Japan in an Army Hospital while my Dad was stationed their during the occupation/Korean War.
Of course that was back in '54. Imagine what the fuck up rate was back then? They barely washed their hands before sawing off a leg.
My daughter was born in an Army hospital in Germany in 71. Ambulance from our detached unit didn't know where the hospital was in the main city.Wife was in labor 24 hours. Daughter has learning disabilities from what I believe was oxygen stress. What do I know. Woman had a 11 lb baby in next room. She had to make her bed and she shuffled down the hall using two IV poles as canes to get her meals. I knew then that I didn't want to stay in. "Though you mock my uniform, I guard your sleep."
"WHY THE FUCK IS THE MILITARY CONCERNING ITSELF WITH "MATERNITY CARE"???
Because Veterans have FAMILIES, you Moronic Chimp. Time to get your Head out of your ASS.
Though they weren't in Combatant Roles when I served, I've seen plenty of courageous women who deployed near Harm's Way to support those who did.
You OBVIOUSLY have NO CLUE as to the lives and burdens carried by our Servicemen - especially those who've served Overseas.
Mind your IGNORANCE and SHUT THE FUCK UP!!
Murder. Theft. Lying. The only things governments do well.
There are no consequences for doctors fucking up either, they got insurance to settle those cases.
And when a corrupt politician is tossed from office, he is rewarded with lucrative lobbying jobs making at least 10 X what they were making screwing over the nation with their corruption.
^^^^lady^^^^ what a farce. all of 22 weeks. definatly a bitch. alot of talk, when do you wan tto meet?
so what if he has only been here for 22 weeks. I have only been commenting a year or so. We should welcome all people who have discovered this sight. Also, as a veteran, his statement does not defend me in the least. Why exactly is he obligated to care. I do feel sorry for people who came back all fucked up, got killed, or had to kill anyone. Its terrible, but I dont care if others don't feel that way. I was a supporter of all these shenanigans up until 4 or 5 years ago, Im sad to say, but I am no longer. Maybe he was one of those rare people who opposed it based on the same reasons most of us do now. No one returning from over there fought or died for our 'freedoms'. Name one freedom we were in danger of losing to any of those countries. Cops kill far more innocent people in this country than 'terrorists', a trend thats sure to continue.
"War is a racket."
Why should they fight for you and defend the Constitution as its ursurped from your very eyes. You fight for it. They fought once and everyone hates them for it. Heck I was spit on the first day I got back.
Seems everyone is waiting for the Veterans to do something about the situation today. Not going to happen, At least not from me. Even the gov't calls us terrorists. Most Vets I know have seen enough for 5 lifetimes and have had a belly full.
So, yes its a rich mans war and a poor mans fight same as all history. The world is ruled by powerful thugs that need recources for their own. get over it. Yea that sitting around singing Kumbaya Gandi shit don't cut it.
So while the soccer moms drive around in their 10mpg SUVs enjoying the 3 dollar gas, with Platinum in the converter and talking on a cell phone with rare earth metals probably has no idea that the United States does not have enough of 270+ raw materials to make her skanky life possible and would not let her daughter near my son.
So remind me again, Why I would want to do anything but laugh as it all as it goes to shit.
I will count the down votes to prove my statements.
Sincerily Veteran.
This is an honest question: Exactly when did you figure out you were serving the puppetmasters, and not your country? Before, during, or after your service?
Followup question: how many people did you meet in the service who are fully aware of what is really going on? Partially aware? Completely unaware?
DaNang 1969 the day I landed.
Answer to your second question About all expect for a few green babies
"How many time must a man turn his head, and pretend that he just does'nt see? The answer my friend is blowin in the wind, The answer is blowin in the wind."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWwgrjjIMXA
And when you came out of that shithole you were forced to go to, you were demonized from society back home, as many of us also were 5 years after that war ended. The bastards learned a valuable lesson: make everyone glorify any thug that wants to go fire some rounds at real people-just like the video games only cooler. Unbelievable.
well Veteran, at least you're honestly acknowledging what you volunteered to invade other nations and kill their peoples for.
corporate resources.
I encourage more of your brethren to speak up here in these threads, the better to dispel the faint hopes
that some one in a uni-form is gonna come and rescue this
corporate State farm.
Truth hurts.
While I can understand what you've written, I believe that we should leave Earth in better shape than how we found it; go forth and alleviate some suffering: http://www.worldvision.org
"Dear US soldiers, Actually defend the Constitution and i'll personally pay your medical bills. "
Dear US soldiers,
Actually, I don't want to pay for your healthcare at all. I don't see that I should have to pay for your healthcare by being directly and immorally taxed to do so. The military is ostensibly "all volunteer" meaning you chose to enlist. That being the case, why should any person be forced to pay for your benefits? You knew precisely what you were getting into, that there was a risk of injury or illness. I resent being forced to pay for your substantial education benefits, your healthcare and your retirement benefits.
Now before you say I don't know what I'm talking about, actually I do. I was in the military during the Vietnam debacle. And I don't expect anyone to pay for whatever happened to me back then. I discouraged my children and their friends from enlisting by telling them about the military and what it really does. I showed them photos of landmine victims that I took when I went back to SE Asia in 1999-2000, explained how America left behind a mess and killed nearly 5,000,000 innocent people for no good reason. You are doing the exact same thing in the Middle East. And I don't want to participate in any way, shape or form. That includes paying for your healthcare benefits. And by the way, you aren't defending the constitution or protecting me and my family. That's a bunch of marketing tripe. As a matter of fact what you do puts my family in peril. Stop sticking your noses into other peoples business. Stop invading sovereign nations and killing innocent people. Get the hell out as soon as possible.
Sincerely,
A veteran who doesn't expect anyone to pay for my healthcare or any other benefit, especially with tax payer dollars.
worth repeating,
there is nothing hero-ick about volunteering for corporate profiteers by the terrorising of other humans, in the guise of uni-form'd thuggery.
respect due to those who have allowed their minds to fully understand this, and share that perspective with others.
Best comment (Rubicons) I have read in ages. And I read a fuck ton of them. Well struck.
How long have you served; and were your injured or disabled during your Service Years?
I happen to care about every Vet that dies, comes back maimed or has PTSD. Only a heartless cunt would think otherwise. Blackwater mercenaries, different story.
American soldiers are also OBLIGATED to question and not follow illegal orders. This rarely happens.
American soldiers are NOT allowed to use the excuse "I was just following orders". They are morally responsible for taking part in actions not supported by the Constitution.
I don't want to see anyone maimed or killed either, but I also want people to hold to the oathes they took.
Another Vet.
This soldier did exactly that and got raked over the coals with broken glass.
http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2003044627_nogo7m.html
He should be in charge of the military at the 5 star general level for integrity, ethics, honor and courage while under fire by the corrupt system he served under ... instead probably dishonoably discharged and working as a cashier at a 7 Eleven.
... instead probably dishonoably discharged and working as a cashier at a 7 Eleven.
That's exactly what happened to me for merely questioning the legality of the CO's illegal orders one day.......back in '86.
Stand up for what you believe in or lie down and die a thousand deaths in dishonor.
I refused to follow illegal orders on two occasions, and throughout my time in the Army insisted on doing the "right thing" and insisted others do so as well. I was rewarded with the career killing bullet comment on my NCO-ER "Always chooses the hard right over the easy wrong regardless of concequences".
I couldn't get promoted to save my soul.
I stopped going to the VA about 3 years ago, the "treatments" I was recieving were killing me. I believe I would be dead now if I had continued on the path they laid out for me. Army TRICARE is no better, and my experince with doctors on the civilian TRICARE program the same. I am treating myself now, I am on zero medications, and am much healthier for it.
As for the cunt who doesn't want to pay taxes for treated service connected veterans, well, fuck you. Pay up bitch or show me you refused to pay taxes to fund these "banker wars". Otherwise, you are just another blowhard coward.
+100K
Rcvd a Shitty Officer Eval right after I submitted my Resignation to take the Early Exit Bonus and look after my dying Father (and making sure Contracts, Regs, and US Treasury Assets were properly maintained in a Money Laundering, Drug Trafficking Sinkhole) during the Clinton Draw-down from several LIFERS who should have been forced out for not making O-5 (only Mustangs and Medical/Injury Cases should retire at O-4. One was even a Wife-Beater who was kicked off his Squadron and out of the War Theatre - leave it to Navy Air to give such a Low-life any Command related assignment).
Fun part was, I actually had Operations under my Leadership which were ranked on System Command and Navy Wide Basis - AND - I was the Only Officer (and Khaki (worn by E-7 and Above), IIRC) in the Command who actually sailed into Harm's Way on a Warship. They fluffed my final Eval; but we all "knew of the screw". Several other Officers in surrounding Commands were apparently relieved for Foul Play; but I left Walking the Walk with my Integrety intact.
Actually, they attempted to charge him with 3 counts under the UCMJ: wiki link
"Watada was court-martialed in February 2007, with the case ending in a mistrial."
The military attempted to retry him in 2007 but Watada appealed the decision claiming double jeopardy.
"On November 8, 2007, the injunction was extended by Judge Settle, who held that Lt. Watada's double jeopardy claim is meritorious, and that there was no evidence presented that it lacks merit."
He looks to have been discharged under "other than honorable conditions.?" cited here
Relatively unscathed IMO. It could of been much much worse. If he had abandoned his post and lets say moved to Canada, it would of been a different story...
+1,000,000 to LordyLord.
Once you are old and no longer serving, you just cost money to keep alive, not just with medical care but pensions as well. Much cheaper if you are dead. Also ironic hearing NYT bashing this- this is govt run healthcare right here. This is what you will get, horrible results and zero accountability. The NYT recognizes and correctly criticized it, yet they were some of the biggest obamacare supporters in the media. They literally want the whole country enrolled in this. They clearly do not know what the real problem is
You fail to understand socialist logic, which goes like this: The system isn't bad, just the people running it. If only we could get the right people in there, they could surely fix it.
Unfortunately, most Govt "employees" are not much smarter than a box o'rox! It's like they purposefully hire the stoopid, ones that won't rock the boat...Naw, that's just crazy talk!
Another prescient comment on a very good thread. The NYT is run by statist cunts.
oh, FFS, the NYT found...whatever they were told to find. Give me a fucking break...
Yup, they printed what they were told to print. So, let's think of a reason. How about pushing all veterans into ObamaCare. That pushes a hugh amount of money out of the Pentagon and into Obamacare, giving Obamacare a lot of new 'paying' customers to offset the subsidized.
In the future, when Obamacare is going broke, just claim it's because of the veterans and pull money from the Pentagon's budget, or raise the veterans co-pay or deductable limit, or both.
Yes, and all that money running through Obama's Finance Industry backers? Pure coincidence, I'm sure. As the power and the balance sheet of State and Government are more perfectly merged.
But don't dare complain about it: You'll be labeled a "terrorist" and "non-compliant."
No doubt any kind of complaining will just get the veteran moved to the bottom of whatever waiting list they may be on. And, those waiting lists are a problem in themselves.
The armed forces "caring" for their veterans is a big joke worldwide.
They give them cheap alcohol and tobacco to make them sick and while appearing to "care" probably thin the rolls as fast as they possibly can without looking like a veteran culling house.
Armed forces pensions would balloon otherwise and they need that money to pay young, fresh fodder.
I say that having seen the Indian Air Force since I was born and 12 years in the Indian Navy myself.
The whole freaking war thing sucks donkey balls and now with drones, lacks any element of "greatness" or courage.
Whomanity, very downhill trajectory overall :-)
And WTF is wrong with cheap alcohol?
If you were in a real military you would understand courage gets you killed and the more unfair the fight the better. We prefer that you die in a unfair fight.
When it comes time to kill bankers there are a few hard core mother fuckers who will take care of it.
The cheap alcohol....talk to your liver :-)
As for the rest, call me old fashioned.
All good, one man's meat etc....
I agree with your posts. I was in at 17 years old, no problem, cigarettes 26 cents a pack, shit beer at the corner shoppette. Went home and couldn't get cigarettes or beer - too young.
One question.....are VA hospitals allowed to hire doctors and nurses based on qualifications, or are they forced to hire based on social - affirmative action policies? I know the answer.
all my doctors were Indian or of the Asian persuasion... with heavy accents and a bit callus
Every dot Indian doctor I have ever had has been pretty good, I have a Filipino Nephrologist right now and except for the comprehension loss due to my bad hearing and his accent, he has been excellent.
I like many others woke up sometime in 68 to the realization that the US military led by political animals only held marginally less contempt for my overall safety and well being than the NVA up there on the DMZ and in the A shau valley did.
I want to take the opportunity to apologize for my youthful indiscretions to all the moral elitists here at zerohedge who evidently were equipped with a level of divine like wisdom from birth mere mortals like myself have had to develop through experience.
I take full responsibility.
I have long since sought to make my peace with God and the people of SE Asia for the misdirected policy that led to some of my darkest memories, God has forgiven me and there is nothing I can do for those generations that suffered endless war, it is something one has to do alone I suppose.
After all it has been said that man goes mad in great herds but only comes to their right mind one at a time.
-but to the self directed superior element that will shadow me to my grave I can only offer my apologies and ask them to search their own hearts before condemning mine.
who exactly do you think will be judging you when you leave your body behind? he might sound a bit like you ;)
To know it will not be someone like you is comfort enough..
any mirrors in your world?
Welcome to Socialized Medicine. Name one industry where a govenrment run monopoly can compete with private companies? Annunities? Schools? Package delivery? How about mass transit? "Healthcare"? How about venture capital - Solindra and the Ex-Im bank come to mind. In every case the governement managed organization is at best marginally functional, at worst corruptin and fraud - all absured prices. How about just the basics - a functioning city government? Detroit, Chicago . . . <your city here>. Thanks for voting DemoRAT. You're killing us - literally.
The British system. On average a UK citizen lives 5 years longer than a US citizen and healthcare expenditure in England is 40% below that in the US.
Thye need more Jack in the Box and Texas style State Fair. They do not have as many trailer trash , time to export some
"The British system. On average a UK citizen lives 5 years longer than a US citizen"
I would rather live 5 fewer years free, than 5 years longer as a slave.
People in the UK are much freer than in your USSA where everything is fucking felony felony felony felony
Yeah except the UK is completely overrun with security cameras, you aren't allowed to defend yourself, and you can't even say or even think what you want lest you run afoul of the PC thought police.
i count 7 downvotes, and 7 pussies who I bet if I got them in an alley would cower in fear if I pulled a bat on them.
Get a life ladies.
Until you look at the little details and discover that they aren't using the same measurement and standards. Infant mortality, which is handled considerably differently nearly everywhere outside the US, is enough all by itself to create the illusion of the average citizen living longer.
How do you calculate that "40% below"??? It's impossible to decompose the cost of healthcare from the cost of government, since they are one and the same in that fucktarded country.
The British system. On average a UK citizen lives 5 years longer than a US citizen and healthcare expenditure in England is 40% below that in the US.
"The British system. On average a UK citizen lives 5 years longer than a US citizen"
I would rather live 5 fewer years free, than 5 years longer as a slave.
How does dying young have anything to do with freedom? Apparently freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.
I think you'll find the standard deviation to be MUCH higher over here ;)
maxw3st:
My uncle injured his hand back in early 80s when he lived in Canada. He had two fractured fingers at the joints. The only medical care he could get from the Canadien orthopedic surgeons was an X-ray and a splint due to rationing. The fractures did not heal properly and it destroyed his career as a pilot. By the time he made it to the staes, he found out from American orthopedic surgeons that the fractures shold have been pinned by a hand specialist. But, the Canadien healthcare system is superior to US because it did not DIRECTLY affect his lifespan.
My sister is currently studying genetics in Spain and severly injured her hand. All she could get was a splint from socialized medicine due to rationing. Injury didn't heal properly. She has pain and a couple of her fingers are severly crooked. Since it won't DIRECTLY affect her lifespan, I guess that's another success for socialized medicine. She's almost finished her Ph.D. Too bad it is extremely difficult for her to use her right hand to do lab work.
I guess she can always go into teaching.
Did it ever occur to you that rationing saves money? Did it ever occur to you that there are serious injuries that will not affect lifespan? Did it ever occur to you that you are ignorant?
In the long run, quality of work accomplished & efficiency at large government-run organizations always tend to be inferior to what the private sector will accomplish; the different set of incentives and "immortality" of state bureaucracies insulate them from the selective pressures of the markets.
The British NHS is NOT an exception; it takes forever to get elective surgery done and there have been many instances of subpar care documented. Just Google "NHS horror stories" for the morbid details. Also, even if there are no formal age limits for treatments, ageism is inherent to the system as many physicians choose not to refer or treat patients based on age. Not surprisingly, the Brits who can afford it have supplemental insurance and get their care outside the public system. This is actually desirable for the statists, as those who decline public care unload the system and of course keep paying taxes to support it.
PORN and parties
My brother-in- law died because of the incompetance of the VA. His meds where changed so often (with each new Dr.) no palliative effects could be noted. The indifference to the patient's best interest is stunning.
DOT, see my comment above. The VA and it's global equvivalents are culling houses, not hospitals for healing.
It's true name should be the "Pension Control System".
True dat ORI.
I will see your "Pension Control System" and raise you to "Person Control System". The primary function of government.
A pox on all their Houses!
In deed and word DOT.
Govern Ment...
Control the mind....it's really in our faces....
Jeeze Ori. You and DOT seem to get along so swimmingly and think so alike that DOT might be tempted to, like, adorn your forehead, yes?
Same with my brother-in-law and the VA. Dead at 46, thanks Marine Corp for not giving a shit after they are out.
I don't use the VA. The company I went to work for now has $5 office-visits and my monthly medical deductions are reasonable. I get to use just about any doctor in town with the civilian medical coverage (BCBS Anthem); and don't have to wait for hours at the VA hospital - which is a 2 hour drive away.
shameful...
Maybe the VA needs to be outsourced to India or Thailand for Medical Care. Meanwhile keep waving the flag and chanting USA USA USA , we fought for Democracy. Dumbasses don't even know what they are fighting for .
Pentagon vs Langley.
Don't VA hospitals make a lot of use of foreign "doctors" imported from third-world countries?
yes, just commented above that all my doctors were Indian or Asian... and we 'import' thats for sure because the accents were heavy. Must of been a revolving door thing too because my doctors changed frequently...
I wouldn't voluntarily enter a hospital unless I severed a limb, was unconscious from trauma, or my liver jumped out of my ass to avoid drowing in alcohol. I know a number of people, including my grandfather, who went into a hospital with a mild condition or ailment and never made it out alive. I use private walk-in clinics or surgery centers; cheaper, cleaner, and better run.
"Avoid The Following Plagues Like They Are Hospitals"
seeing your doctor can be hazardous to your health
My best friend went into the hospital for a minor condition & died from MERSA he got in the hospital
Greenie just for "my liver jumped out of my ass to avoid drowning in alcohol". haha..
But I have two dead relatives from Kaiser P. in San Berdoo I can point to that were sent home with massive doses of heartburn tabs who within six month later died of stomach cancer.. no joke..
Seriously take it from a now dry, reformed alcohol abuser, that stuff will kill ya bro and we are going to need all hands on deck in the near future.
http://www.govexec.com/federal-news/fedblog/2014/06/epa-employees-told-s...
And they lose their emails just like the IRS...
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/06/missing-government-emails-epa-108306.html
...transparency bitchez.
With a budget of over SIXTY BILLION dollars.
Need I say more?
Don't forget the extras
It wouldn't surprise me if the illegals have better health care choices.
Look at Obama's personal health plan for instance.
His documents are all sealed. How do you know he didn't immigrate legally?
How do you know he did?
What's he got to hide??? He's a PUBLIC servant. If he wanted his privacy, he shouldn't have run for office.
How do you know he didn't immigrate legally?
Red flag for making an attempt to illegally transfer the reasonable burden of skepticism at the same time accepting the a position of credulity with no proof of substantiation- denied.
..besides he's a shapeshifter- different rules apply.
It says it's a citizen += everything it says is a lie === 0
I'm a vet. And I live in Thailand where I can get world class health care I can afford. Fuck Obama/Bush/Clinton same turd same smell!
That's why you need freedom of choice for doctors and hospitals, plus good available information. The government takes away your choices by controlling payment to doctors and hospitals. A doctor doesn't need to be diligent, capable, or decent; only, needs to be a non-complaining government hack.
truthfully, I dont think the VA or any other system is an anomaly. SYSTEMS in general are failing. All systems, large, are breaking down. globally, the prols are all living with a expectation of the next shoe to drop...
corruption and incompeteance at VA? absolutely. Same as it is at ford, GM, GS, JPMorgue, etc. you name a big system, and it is rotting from thee inside...
devo had it right. the system is de-volving. 100+ years of Bernays / Gustav Le Bon the crowd etc.. religous voodoo's pushed on people, a milenium of managing the sheep, manufacturing consent.. twisting nature for the profit of a few connected.. bad nutrition, bad education, emf etc enviormental pollutants.. all these are building to a crescendo of collapse..
indeed, it is a System designed by a few to control the many, a top-down pyramid-scheme hierarchy that guarantees
the majority "beneath" suffer, and rarely even allow their minds to entertain thoughts
of who owns them.
Babies?. the US armed forces train them young.
It is one of those systems that really needs to be ripped down to the bone and rebuilt bottom up and not just for veterans make it so Congress has to by law only get their medical services done through a government run and owned hospital/doctor system.
the moment we allowed the "governing" to have a seperate system from the "goverened".. that was one of many moments that led to this...
Unless people take back the government and restablish the relationship who works for who, we are just going to get more of the same as we hurdle towards implosion.
The system needs to slit it's own throat without anyone trying to save it once and for all so we can rebuild the whole damn thing from bottom up in an open decentralized manner. If you try to save it they will hate you for doing it and just undermine everything you try to do afterwards. They need to fail by their own hands on their own terms so that can't be used as an excuse afterwards. These are human systems and when the people suck there is no rule based system that will change that. I learned that lesson a long time ago trying to develop inventory control systems. They are ultimately only as good as the people interfacing them.
amen.. you can't fix gangrene..
I had excellent insurance all my life, (and never really used) but lost all that and finally had to go to the VA with a humungus 11mm kidney stone. They noted that it was stuck, blocking the tube from the kidney, then scheduled my follow up appointment to remove it 3 months later.
That kidney is now damaged.
They apparently put some sort of machinery up the pipe and blew it up, in the process damaging the entire ureter and urethra, it bled for weeks and the pain was a religious experience.
Only go there if it's life or death, they just don't care.
That had to suck, my sympathies. But, I'm willing to place a hefty bet that, had you the same problem back when you had "excellent insurance" (that you never really used), you would have found out the hard way that it wasn't all it was cracked up to be. People figure this out when something serious happens.
And the whole VA thing is very subject to location. I know lots of people very happy and very unhappy w/their VA benefits/services.
They're not all equal, no doubt about that.
But you never know, walking in there, what they're going to do.
And the patient's concerns are not even considered. They act like you are just a piece of meat.
It's a crap-shoot. My point being that private insurance is, unfortunately, no different. American Healthcare, welcome. Hope you're not sick.
It's all a crap shoot. My aunt went to the hospital becasue she wasn't feeling well. She took the bus because she was afraid to drive. They scheduled her an appointment in two weeks and she died on the bus trip home.
@Conax.
Sorry about that bro.. I had identical happen to me in 93 when I ended up in Jerry Pettis VA in Riverside CA, an impacted stone was blocking the uterer making my plumbing go septic.
I was having the stent pulled out at the exact same time they were burning out the Branch Davidians on the tv.. bad omen.
As a result, I now have stage II kidney failure which leads to either a future dyalisis program or more likely the death panel so I watch what I eat and drink.
Not once did I see the same doctor twice except for right after the operation, my urioligist now tells me what happened to me should have never happened, I know he is biting his tongue short of saying more..
again I'm sorry for your experience as you probably are for mine.
Mine is functional but a little slow to drain.
I'm real sorry to hear they messed you up that bad.
I guess without treatment it would have been worse, so I'm thankful they got the stone out, anyway.
as a fed gov worker, I can tell you that affirmative action plays a large role in the incompetence of the fed gov workers in general. When you hire and promote on race and gender, you poison the system, and the effects of that poisoning can be seen in the VA system, the obamacare site, and everything else.
You push aside the most competent to promote on race and gender, and that creates a certain culture.
quotas certainly have a role in the de evolution, I agree...
Nonsense. My dad worked for the federal government for years before the advent of affirmative action, and the culture of incompetence was always there. It is a feature of governments; and numerous factors cause it. Competence is never rewarded in governments; loyalty and compliance are. Excellence if noticed at all is punished. Budgets must always be spent or over-spent to prevent future cuts. The taxpayer (unlike the business owner or even the corporate shareholder) is never represented when decisions are made. Affirmative action may be a tiny part of the problem, but the real problem is the fraudulent nature of government. Everyone engaged in an enterprise designed to trick people and rob them will unavoidably be infected by the culture of corruption, and the parasite will always die after it grows too large and kills the host. The US is in the "fiddling while rome burns" stage right now.
I worked a summer as a US government employee, on a temp basis. One meeting, we were asked for input on how to spend money because if we didn't, it would not be allocated again next year. The waste is amazing.
I know a family with three generations of Gov employees.
Mother - Public defender
Daughter 1 - County
Daughter 2 - County
Son - Postal Service
Grandaughter - UN
Retire early - benefits
Ra
The united States is populated by about 180 million Americans. The rest are spies. DYOH
if we are to be honest with ourselves, its time to be aggressive about discouraging young folk to sign up.. all wars have been manufatured by bankers for 100+ years.. certainly Korea and forward, expecially egregious exploitation of the military... I foolishly served in the early 80s. didnt know better then...
its time to stop giving fuel to the corruption. I am grateful that seemingly more yuoung people are awake,, and less likly to enlist today. lets stop volunterring to be their burnt offerings...
Had a friend who went through NROTC in the early 80's, served 4 yrs on nuclear subs. As his term was getting close to over, he told me, "There's two stock answers to the question, 'What will you do when your enlistment is done?':
1) Jump for joy.
2) Blow buffalo at a nickel a herd to get my self respect back."
New York Times? The Biggest War Pimp?
FU NYT.
Signed: A veteran, Alex Cojones
+1 Beam me up Scotty.
Here in Phoenix, one of the disgraced officials of the VA gets to keep her $170,000 performance bonus.
Par for the course. Oh wait, is that racist?
This is a crying shame and what I said before, the culture of meeting numbers goes ahead of human lives, that can't be more obvious. In the LA area, the Long Beach VA hospital is pretty much a good operation; however when they got full they were sending patients out of the ER rooms over to a community hospital and these were senior vets, who of course have no Medicare B or C so they would see the patients and write it off as charity so how dumb is that for the VA not to contract with this hospital to help themselves? The private was helping, but darn sign a contract as there are plenty out there for this purpose and it has been expanded as you have probably read. The VA facility just denied this was happening, but funny all those patients somehow showed up at the private hospital ER room. Thank goodness the hospital is there though, but they just wanted to get paid instead of doing it for charity.
The enemy lives in the Hamptons.
When it comes apart the mobs would find vast wealth going through the Hamptons.
But during thanksgiving and other holidays I always see the little blurbs during football games about supporting the troops and how loved they are by the government and the sheeple. Clearly this hospital drama can't be true based on those TV announcements and what government says! Everything on TV and said by politicians is true.
Professional sports = captured sellouts
Of course, the words genocide and veterans seem worlds apart; but, in this case, I wonder?!?!
They are killing machines.
they deserve despect
they deserve death and not a treatment.
GTFO. And read something other than Pravda West. You don't deserve the protection they gifted you your whole life through their uncountable personal sacrifices. Team America is our nation.
The banksters and military-industrial-complex are much richer now you have sacrificed your life. Eisenhower warned about these sociopaths. Prey on the naive 18 year olds and claim it's for freedom when it's for profit.
Next VA scandel: 28 Days Later
Injecting vets with cancer virus
My gay daughter hates Obama. She votes libertarian she also a vet.
She told me that gay people feel used and if the Republicans ever become more libertarian she will join them. Otherwise it's none of the above
Wait a second. There are gay women in the military????
Shit, tuning them loose on ISIS would be a great fucking idea. The ragheads wouldn't stand a chance!
Independant thinker, go girl
The day is fast approaching when they will not have the necessary recruits to replace those leaving. Shouts of: "Hell no, we won't go!" are returning.
I imagine they're working on that. If the young are made desperate enough they'll have to join or live with their mommas.
Bingo. There's a reason why the economy is being driven into the ground, and youth unemployment is skyrocketing.
IF THE FACADE OF TAKING CARE OF VETERANS WERE REMOVED, AND THE VA SIMPLY ENDED, WE COULD PUT VETERANS THROUGH THE MEDICARE SYSTEM, AND NOT ONLY WOULD MONEY BE SAVED, AND VETERANS NOT BE CONFINED WITHIN THE CONTROLLS OF THE FORMER MILITARY THAT USES THE VA TO KEEP TRACK OF THEM----
BUT THE FACADE OF THE MILITARY BEING THE UNQUESTIONABLE SOURCE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS IN THE U.S. WOULD BE WEAKENED.
THE VA SHOULD BE CLOSED ENTIRELY. PERIOD. if the civilian employes of the u.s. have expensive healthcare and don't use the va, why should veterans use the va? they are simply employees of the united states after all.
Veterans should go to the doctor of their choice for service connected issues and forward the bill to the FedGov.
I agree that the VA system should be shut down.
My friend is a WW2 veteran. When he returned from Europe he attended George Washington University, graduating with honors. Throughout his career he lived up to the potential indicated by his experiences and schooling.
He's got cancer. He's been going to the Long Beach VA for treatment for 4 years. They forgot him for 10 months. The doctor walked out in the middle of a surgery and left him with pieces of his ear and nose missing. They are still missing. After his last biopsy they said "they didn't get it all". Now with no additional treatment or diagnosis they sent him a letter saying they got it all and that Hallelujah! Its a Merkel! He's been curred.
Unless you help us, this is your future. Nachos.
The VA hospital should be on the list. My dad, a diabetic, had a heart attack in 1999 and they gave him dextrose! His blood sugar went to 1000 and what started as a small infection on his foot turned into a festering mass of infection that rotted a hole completely through between his toes. The place was a hell hole I'm sorry to say. We immediately put on my mother's BC/BS insurance and transferred him.
Maybe it has improved since then but I doubt it.