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Argentina Must Pay $539 Million Today - Default Imminent

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Today is the day that Paul Singer and his Elliot Capital Management team have been waiting for. Thanks to SCOTUS' decision, as Bloomberg reports, Argentina is poised to miss a bond payment today, putting the country on the brink of its second default in 13 years, after a U.S. court blocked the cash from being distributed until the government settles with creditors from the previous debt debacle. The decade-long battle between Argentina and holdout creditors from the country’s $95 billion default in 2001 is coming to a head as the judge’s decision “closes Argentina’s options to finally force it to negotiate," and "should now stop using these delay tactics and get serious." Argentina sees it a different way, the ruling "is merely a sophisticated way of of trying to bring us down to our knees before global usurpers,” according to the economy minister Axel Kicillof.

 

Amid all this, Argentina' MERVAL remains near all-time record highs... (as equity hopes of devaluation trump bond fears of default)

 

As Bloomberg notes, if non-payment were to occur today, default would not be officially triggered yet (forcing Argentina's hand to negotiate)...

The nation has a 30-day grace period after missing the $539 million debt payment to seek an accord with a group of defaulted bondholders led by billionaire Paul Singer’s NML Capital Ltd. and prevent a default on its $28.7 billion of performing global dollar bonds. Both Argentina and NML have said that they’re open to talks.

 

A decade-long battle between Argentina and holdout creditors from the country’s $95 billion default in 2001 is coming to a head.

 

...

 

The judge’s decision “closes Argentina’s options to finally force it to negotiate,” said Jorge Mariscal, the chief investment officer for emerging markets at UBS Wealth Management, which oversees $1 trillion. “Argentina should now stop using these delay tactics and get serious.”

Buit Argentina is not happy...

The ruling “is merely a sophisticated way of of trying to bring us down to our knees before global usurpers,” Argentina said. “But he will not achieve his goal for quite a simple reason: The Argentine Republic will meet its obligations, pay off its debts and honor its commitments.”

 

In an e-mailed statement, the Economy Ministry said Griesa is abusing his power and acting outside of his jurisdiction as the restructured bonds are not part of the holdouts’ case.

 

"A judge is trying to impede a debtor from carrying out its obligations and creditors from getting paid,” the ministry said.

Elliott is hopeful...

Jay Newman, a money manager at Elliott’s NML Capital, said in an interview, “We are hoping to have the opportunity to negotiate with Argentina.”

We will see... can the world's fragile rehpothecated markets handle a technical default on near $30bn? For now, no one seems worried.

 

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Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:00 | 4909190 flyonmywall
flyonmywall's picture

You can't squeeze blood from a turnip. I'm sure Elliot Capital Management will try, and has CDS on the current round of bonds too.

Fucking vultures.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:06 | 4909205 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

Do you mean this Turnip ? It might not have blood in it but it's certainly worth "something"

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:11 | 4909220 lordylord
lordylord's picture

The bastards finally ran out of other people's money.  I won't hold my breath for free markets and sound money to return to Argentina.  People will of course beg for MORE GOVERNMENT.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:23 | 4909251 Groundhog Day
Groundhog Day's picture

Holdouts will be screwed again.  Argentina is in the drivers seat.  They've been locked out of the International capital markets for a long time, i dont think they really give a shit any more.  They will default and let the cards fall.  just my worthless opinion

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:33 | 4909290 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

It's just not fair that people that never had any hope of ever being paid back in the first place (Why the fuck did you lend them any money) aren't going to be paid back. I think Obama needs to step in here and fix this.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:38 | 4909303 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Print, print, print.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:21 | 4909413 Unknown User
Unknown User's picture

Let's see who will blink first...

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 11:55 | 4909730 Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

<< Why the fuck did you lend them any money >>

 

Bankers and finance offciers get huge commissions and bonuses when they land a loan even if there is no hpe of it ever being paid back. They don't care since by the time the debtor defaults, the loan officer has already banked his money, changed jobs and moved on. Losses are eaten by shareholders, taxpayers or some other innocent party who usually had nothing to do with the loan to begin with. There's zero down side for the loan originator.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 12:02 | 4909770 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Free Corzine!

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 12:50 | 4910036 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

That quote is priceless that a Judges ruling with force Argentina to negotiate. What kind of moron thinks like that?

The judge’s decision “closes Argentina’s options to finally force it to negotiate,” said Jorge Mariscal, the chief investment officer for emerging markets at UBS Wealth Management, which oversees $1 trillion. 

LOLOLOLOLOL

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:34 | 4909293 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

The question is how will this influence the CDS mountain? Since they defaulted over a decade ago my guess is not many were written that are left on this debt.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:39 | 4909307 Croesus
Croesus's picture

KILL BANKERS, Bitchez!!!

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:49 | 4909321 Landrew
Landrew's picture

The scum Singer and one other theft are the hold outs keeping other people who have settled from getting paid. They are holding bonds worth 1.3 billion holding up 15 billion in agreed to settlements. Singer is a banker scum! This isn't about Argentina as much as it is about confiscating all of our funds. These vultures are the end of workers. Don't kid yourself they are holding small amounts of every countries debts bought for pennies on the dollar. Singer is a O'Bummer/Bush insider who bought them as well! Singer should be banished from this country!

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 11:23 | 4909604 Tourist2008
Tourist2008's picture

No he is not, Argentina is quite capable of paying the restructured bonds, all it has to do is comply with the Court Order that they pay Singer at the same time. Simple, but they still dont want to do it.

In all debt restructurings, you have to first decide whether its a debtor who cant pay or who doesnt want to pay. Argentina is clearly in the second category.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:29 | 4909433 Matt
Matt's picture

I'll laugh pretty hard if Argentina decides not to pay the holdouts at all, and the CDS committee decides it is a non-event, no pay out. Since, whether a default is a default or not is decided by a vote of a group of people who probably sold you the CDS in the first place and have a strong incentive not to pay. 

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:19 | 4909402 what's that smell
what&#039;s that smell's picture

usury. usury. usury.

infinite fiat. infinite fiat. infinite fiat.

merchant of venice. merchant of venice. merchant of venice.

money changers in the temple.......

paul singer wants his pound of flesh, oh ye antisemites.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 11:21 | 4909588 Tourist2008
Tourist2008's picture

Actually Argentine is desperate to return to the Capital Markets. Why else do you think they settled with CIADI, The Paris Club and Repsol all in the last few months?

The big provinces all have international debt issuance lined up and ready to go .... cos several dont have funds to pay state employees at the end of June. Good to know that the new debt will be put to such productive use though.

The Kirchner gov´t being what it is though, expect it to go to the wire.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 11:51 | 4909700 StandardDeviant
StandardDeviant's picture

Yes.  Did you see Kirchner's full-page ALL-CAPS hissy fit in the NYT the other day?

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:12 | 4909225 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Socialism..........BOOM.......#WINNING!!!

 

Looks like they just ran out of other peoples money.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:26 | 4909259 knukles
knukles's picture

Even socialists have to pay their bills.
Even though thye don't think so.

"Math, the New Inconvenient Truth"tm

Debtors have to pay when due.
Let them off of the hooks and you're applauding GM's federally mandated screwing of the bondholders.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:14 | 4909230 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

No, I think he meant the turnip shaped like a thingy.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:20 | 4909244 flapdoodle
flapdoodle's picture

Singer won't get anything from the Argies - they don't have anything left as Christina and the Kirchners have stolen everything of value already...

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:31 | 4909283 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

But Singer isn't even the big man at the table. I'm sure Brennan and Jew Lack would love for Argentina to liquidate their gold account at the BIS to cover the fiat bill, it would save them the cost of a regime change.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:25 | 4909424 MeMongo
MeMongo's picture

Redneck

Ooops! You may have transposed your letters hehe! Reminds Mongo of South Park wheel of fortune " people who annoy you"  "uh I know it, but I don't think I should say it".

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:23 | 4909255 ZDRuX
ZDRuX's picture

Trying to get your money now makes you a vulture? What are you smoking?

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:28 | 4909269 knukles
knukles's picture

Supposed to pay them water and gas bills, too!

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:30 | 4909278 effendi
effendi's picture

Why is a creditor a vulture? The Argies borrowed the money, the Argies wasted the money and now the Argies owe the money. It isn't an odious debt as the money was borrowed by populist governments that had been elected by morons to spread the skittles around. Now it is time for socialists to pay the piper.

Might not get blood from a turnip but you can still roast or mash the buggers. 

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:34 | 4909291 Eyeroller
Eyeroller's picture

Just following the Alinsky playbook.

How dare creditors demand payment?

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:35 | 4909294 fnord88
fnord88's picture

they bought the distressed debt for 4 cents on the dollar i think. they were offered 30c, and refused anything other than $1.

 

they don't deserve a fucking penny.

 

that said kirchoff deserves everything she gets

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:49 | 4909322 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

" kirchoff"

There's a law for that.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:55 | 4909343 fnord88
fnord88's picture

Lol....... how does evilbitchface go over? 

 

Seriously Banks vs communists. ...I hope they all go fucking broke

 

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 11:52 | 4909713 StandardDeviant
StandardDeviant's picture

Gesundheit!

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:39 | 4909305 zerocash
zerocash's picture

I think they mean that Elliot bought the debt for pennies on the dollar and now demands full payment of the original amount. Financial companies which are specialized in those kinds of deals are called "vulture funds". They hover around a troubled debtor until they die and then pick off any assets that they can from the corpse.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:49 | 4909323 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

It's not so black and white. The NY courts are the most corrupt in the civilized world. The commercial code itself is a bought and paid for joke, never mind the regulatory capture, which is why no self-respecting business person uses it in contracts, unless their counter party is a US bank and they are desperate for a loan. Is Singer such an idiot that he didn't know this, and if he did, to what extent did he capitalize on it?

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:02 | 4909195 jubber
jubber's picture

So what Spanish Banks are up to their eyeballs with this shit?  Santander, Bilbao?...all of them?

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:05 | 4909196 _ConanTheLibert...
_ConanTheLibertarian_'s picture

That mervelous merval stock index might take a deep dive...

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:50 | 4909326 sidiji
sidiji's picture

default has been imminent for what..the past 20years?  tell us something new.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:03 | 4909198 AssFire
AssFire's picture

Argentina is a pro at this shit- just wait and see our urban savages go tribal when the US finally defaults.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:19 | 4909238 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Homeland security didn't buy billions of rounds of ammo for rabbit hunting.

 

 

'Homeland', think about that a minute. Fascist Germany had the Fatherland, communist Russia had the Motherland and we have the Homeland....What's that tell you?

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:23 | 4909253 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

"What's that tell you?" - that all Maniacs think alike, or .... (conspiracy theory alert) all 3 Regimes come from the same source (Bilderberg, Illuminati, Freemasons, etc.)

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:31 | 4909280 economics9698
economics9698's picture

"And his hunger burns
so he starts to roam the streets at night
and he learns how to steal
and he learns how to fight
In the ghetto"

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:40 | 4909308 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

That was a great Joe Walsh song.  ;)

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:25 | 4909260 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

Even tho we hail from different spectrums, I have to agree with what you just wrote doc...

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:12 | 4909390 what's that smell
what&#039;s that smell's picture

the bond payments are meaningless.

whom (a pound of flesh, austerity, shock therapy, etc) or what (gold reserves, shipping ports, toll booths, etc) is the collateral?

how do you say loan sharking in argentina?

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:43 | 4909313 zerocash
zerocash's picture

Sounds more ominous in German: Heimreich Sicherheit.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:46 | 4909317 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

that's a good one. "homeland" always sounds like "reserve", to my ears

btw, in German, it's still Vaterland (as in French and Italian) and in Russian it's still Rodina (Motherland). ideology has little to do with it

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:55 | 4909345 _ConanTheLibert...
_ConanTheLibertarian_'s picture

Actually, Heimat in German means Homeland.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 12:46 | 4910010 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

Heimat was the name of a very well produced episodic journey through post Great War towards "the present" - which would be the 1980's, when it was released. . . though more episodes were added to flesh out the original series.

apparently one of Kubrick's favourite films. . .

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:47 | 4909485 Farqued Up
Farqued Up's picture

Hope you're right but I believe it's for tax protesting ZHers.

Tue, 07/01/2014 - 01:07 | 4912922 GoldIsMoney
GoldIsMoney's picture

You mean that calls for way too big misery in form of war? I guess you got that very right.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:29 | 4909273 ShorTed
ShorTed's picture

I like how you think but i don't think our urbanites are as smart as you give them credit for.

 

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:37 | 4909298 Ignorance is bliss
Ignorance is bliss's picture

I think the urbanites will be more dangerous then you could possibly believe. There are already over 1.4 million people that are part of gangs in the U.S. Those ranks will swell once the SHTF.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:05 | 4909202 GoldIsMoney
GoldIsMoney's picture

The argentinan Politician are lying, stealing as avery other government, but currently they are called out for it. I wish all the creditors the very best to even hold states responsible for their obligations. They could have been honest, they could have said, sorry we're broke. But the just paid the IMF and were thinking. "Let f.... the private creditors". Fine for me that not all the private creditors have give up on their rithtgs. I wish the combo around Mrs Kirchner all the bad, I hope they strand where they belong....

Tue, 07/01/2014 - 01:09 | 4912925 GoldIsMoney
GoldIsMoney's picture

Downvotes for an obviously theft and defrauf. I'm astonished... Any comments? No, well cowards everywhere, but that's fine I'm one also. I still pay my taxes....

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:05 | 4909203 Agent P
Agent P's picture

Argentina default.....now why does that sound so familiar?  

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:13 | 4909228 Tabarnaque
Tabarnaque's picture

Would not be the first time indeed. Let's see how they will participate at the July BRICS' meeting in Brazil (the whole Cono Sur is invited if I am not wrong). I am sure that after such a default Argentina will be more than happy to join Russia and its "no US dollar" trade zone!

 

Default bitchez! And let the banksters burn. Iceland should become the template.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:00 | 4909356 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

You can trace the first one back to MonSatan.

During the 1st default, the country was in such turmoil Drs. were not getting paid, people were starving. Ranchers were literally getting their herds slaughtered in the fields with numerous people running off with parts of the cow. Much like the law in France, people won't be jailed for stealing the cow or parts thereof as long as they leave the intact hide. 

Ever notice how Obie has no jacket & his sleeves rolled up like a working stiff in the town halls? Peron did the same. 

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:05 | 4909206 Jason T
Jason T's picture

Governments should not be allowed to borrow.  

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:15 | 4909232 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Governments should not be allowed to exist.

 

There fixed that for you.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:27 | 4909257 lordylord
lordylord's picture

"Governments should not be allowed to exist."

Governments are just a way for an immoral people to enact and justify their immoral behavior and for psychopathic leaders to exert their control and wreak their havoc.  Yes, governments should be banned.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:29 | 4909274 halfasleep
halfasleep's picture

Yup. With the caveat that voluntary governANCE is different than government. I guess voluntary governance is probably utopia for human beings, so we can go ahead an nix that. Therefore, yay, gov'ts should not be allowed to exist.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:32 | 4909285 lordylord
lordylord's picture

Halfasleep:

"That government is best which governs not at all; and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have." Thoreau

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:32 | 4909287 halfasleep
halfasleep's picture

amen.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 12:48 | 4910023 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

as long as folks keep queuing up to vote

there will be government, by consent.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:44 | 4909314 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

lordylord   Governments are just a way for an immoral people to enact and justify their immoral behavior and for psychopathic leaders to exert their control and wreak their havoc.  Yes, governments should be banned.

----

And how do you intend to ban immorality?

When Europeans first came to the Americas, there was no government. But they had to organize to survive. Thus a form of governing came about.

How about the Native American Indians? There was no centralized government, yet, various tribes fought and killed each other.

I am not for big government, but it continues to exist for a reason. Without some form of structure, you have immoral people that wreak havoc on the rest of society. And yes, government also wreaks havoc on society. So it is tails you lose, heads you lose. Which side do you pick. Nothing is perfect so I try to choose a middle ground of small government with minimal power.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:54 | 4909337 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

sorry, but didn't europeans first come to the US in a form of chartered corporate venture? meanwhile many point to the federal/confederate structures of certain Native tribes as a model later settlers started to emulate

on the other side, if the Indians would have had an effective central government, the early settlers would have been alien immigrants... or might have been pushed back to the seas

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:07 | 4909372 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Ghordius    sorry, but didn't europeans first come to the US in a form of chartered corporate venture?

---

Sorry, but weren't pilgrims on there own when they reached the Americas? Non knew if they would even survive the trip. And it wasn't as if they could get help within a week if they ran into trouble. Try using some logic here.

----

Ghordius    on the other side, if the Indians would have had an effective central government, the early settlers would have been alien immigrants... or might have been pushed back to the seas.

---

And that goes against what I propose and most others here propose. You italisize 'effective' and that is the problem. There has been no effective central government in existence that didn't become corrupt, thus ineffective. And the point I brought up about the Indians was not that they would have been able to fight off the settlers. The point was that without a central government dictating the rules with federal laws, because we are humans (indians in this example), we fight, we kill and we act immorally as well as morally. Thus my original question on this thread was how to ban immorality? Answer, you can't.

There is no perfect answer or utopia. Simply getting rid of all government or even a central government brings a new host of problems that most on here don't realize or discuss.

And here is another question to make you think. If government is so bad, then why are they formed? Even in places without oligarchs and such, forms of government and structure are created to govern the population. Why?

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:21 | 4909407 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I'll refrain from getting in the theme of the various early colonies. yet I'm not inventing anything with my "chartered corporate venture"

here, in the Old World, forms of government and structure were practically always created because of external pressure

be it a horde of wandering tribes (Goths to Huns to Vandals, etc. etc.) or the next-door Oligarch/Warlord/Robber Baron

Utopia was for long time only imaginable in the New World, for us. that's why so many left here for it and became... you

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:55 | 4909505 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Ghordius   here, in the Old World, forms of government and structure were practically always created because of external pressure

be it a horde of wandering tribes (Goths to Huns to Vandals, etc. etc.) or the next-door Oligarch/Warlord/Robber Baron

Utopia was for long time only imaginable in the New World, for us. that's why so many left here for it and became... you

----

So how do you propose to end those external pressures? Untopia was never me or anyone else. It is a fantasy used by others for various reasons, political, ideological or whatever. It is simply not being realistic and factual.

And one does not need to hoard to display tendencies of violence and expansion. Again, refer back to waring tribes. One does not need to hoard to have an offensive posture towards others. Nature dictates that each species will act in a way to expand and continue its biological lifeline. This alone should show one that species will do what it takes to prolifigate and that includes fighting competitors.

No you are not a separate species from me. But I and others are still you competitor in life.

BTW, I am enjoying this discussion with you and the exchange of thoughts.  I am finding it more and more rare on this website. There are too many trolls now. You make me think too.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 11:40 | 4909667 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I don't think it's possible to end those external pressures. they are a product of high density of population

what is possible is to have "grown-up" solutions. and some trends will help, including the urbanization of the third world

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:35 | 4909415 lordylord
lordylord's picture

I don't intend nor would I ever try to ban immoral behavior.  It is so funny that you jump to "banning behavior" from "banning the means by which people FORCE their immoral behavior onto me".  Big difference.  You seem to have a very small mind Sessinpo.

"And here is another question to make you think. If government is so bad, then why are they formed?"

Because people are so easily fooled.  Like yourself, people think government is a necessary evil...or just an easy and safe way to stick their hand in my pocket. 

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:26 | 4909430 lordylord
lordylord's picture

Deleted

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:39 | 4909457 intric8
intric8's picture

Where's the nugget of wisdom in your nihilistic view of government? Cut out 75% of the crap going on in the u.s. and we can live with that. Shit is going exponential because oligarchies know the structual foundation of economies around the world have rotted through, and they are working the system for all its worth before it all comes crashing down.

No government will ever be perfect but some have/do exist on a functional basis with citizenry even content and prosperous. Denmark? Norway? Switzerland? Sweden? Finland?

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:40 | 4909462 Farqued Up
Farqued Up's picture

Because governments get in bed with organized ghost worshipers and pass out Bibles and Flags. Gut Hooked!!!

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:36 | 4909443 Farqued Up
Farqued Up's picture

AU contraire, you are speaking pre-automatic weapons. A few million armed citizens and the government is moot, except for the Takers, of course.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:41 | 4909310 TabakLover
TabakLover's picture

Tell me that after a F5 tornado, 8.0 earthquake, 100 ft tsumani, or Cat 5 hurricane hits your town.  

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:51 | 4909328 zerocash
zerocash's picture

The US government screwed up majorly after Hurricanes Katrina and Sandy. The Italian government screwed up hugely after the L'Aquila earthquake in 2009. Might as well not have them forcing their ineptness on the stricken population.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 12:56 | 4910065 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

the USGOV is & was working as intended with regards "Sandy" and "Katrina"

the latter being a rather obvious land grab. . .

taken as a whole, and not to be watched episodically,

all "disasters" are similar to wars, with profits funneled towards the few.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 18:21 | 4911659 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

Katrina worked well, as per The Shock Doctorine, Naomi Klein. Works well in Haiti and other places to.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:22 | 4909406 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Really? That's your example?  We've all witnessed how that works out, the whole world has. The bottom line is the community working together is what rebuilds after a disaster. 

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 11:22 | 4909600 TabakLover
TabakLover's picture

You really think the "community" is going to be able to replace the Golden Gate Bridge or O'Hare or the Port of Charleston should a natural disaster wipe them out?  Too funny.  But I'm sure some "for profit" coproration would step in.  Right, not without government support or tax concessions.  How about this...next time the a major forrest fire threatens a shitload of expensive vacation homes  somewhere, the government just says "Sorry folks, you handle it".  Uh-huh.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:56 | 4909344 smacker
smacker's picture

To those in this sub-thread about government:

There are important and useful things that governments can do, believe it or not. Sadly, they tend to ignore most of them and focus on things which give them more power, control, personal wealth and which feed their psychopathic cravings.

Therefore, government should be allowed to exist but its scope of activity should be very carefully articulated and tightly ringfenced.

              "If it ain't on the list, it's none of their business"

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:47 | 4909482 intric8
intric8's picture

Read the Federalist Papers, and, especially, the Anti-Federalists, as well. The driving ethos of the system those boys devised was to keep it local, in plain view of those that could, readily, correct the wayward actions of the few, before they threatened the many. Of course today we observe that their forsight has been jettisoned and replaced with the 'progress' of big, overreaching government

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 11:17 | 4909583 detached.amusement
detached.amusement's picture

"If it ain't on the list, it's none of their business"

 

there are far too many american citizens asking themselves how in the fuck our constitution exists, veritably infused with this statement, yet also veritably ignoring such a quaint notion...

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 11:40 | 4909666 smacker
smacker's picture

Believe me I know...

I have had hundreds of discussions with people who say that however strong a Constitution is, if the elites want to ignore it, they will, aka the United States today.

No system of oversight is perfect and the best thing that can be expected is that a process exists, that it is not appointed by any branch of government, is fully independent of government and has legal powers to hold anybody who violates it to account in law. Such a body would be very powerful and the people appointed need to be thoroughly vetted beforehand.

In the past, I have postulated that it should have the power to deny any new law that seeks to violate the Constitution. In practice this would mean that it has to be the final signatory on a new law before it becomes law.

Some other things too...

Importantly, the US Constitution - even though it's probably the best in the world - has no strong legal system of oversight acting for its owners, ie: The People. Enter the likes of criminals GW Bush & Obama and others before them.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:09 | 4909207 _ConanTheLibert...
_ConanTheLibertarian_'s picture

Just default already. Sí puedes.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:07 | 4909213 muleskinner
muleskinner's picture

Argentina should send the US gov a bill for 3 trillion dollars for all of the guano that was stolen from them.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:20 | 4909243 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

Shit for Toilet paper, sounds like a fair trade.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:07 | 4909214 ZH Snob
ZH Snob's picture

what will the nazi enclave do now?  maybe they can fall back on the pilfered gold they brought with them.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:07 | 4909215 TalkToLind
TalkToLind's picture

Just tell them they will have to wait 7 years to receive their payment.  This approach worked just great for another country.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:15 | 4909231 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

LOL. Gives the expression "7 year Itch" a whole new meaning.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:16 | 4909234 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

I like how you think.  You could have a bright future ahead of you in either the commodities or central banking fields.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:10 | 4909219 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Can't wait until Japan takes the leap off the cliff.

The US isn't that far behind.

Let's see to what extent the US protects the petro-dollar.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:13 | 4909222 thataintnothin
thataintnothin's picture

No Bueno

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:13 | 4909223 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

This is getting very very Messi. 

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:15 | 4909233 nathan1234
nathan1234's picture

Messi plays football.

The Bankers play with your balls - till you become wiser

 

 

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:13 | 4909227 nathan1234
nathan1234's picture

 The US coup in 1976. It owes Argentina $5 trillion , I would say.

And refer the Bond to Dear Henry for payment

 

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:27 | 4909267 intric8
intric8's picture

539 million? Chump fucking change. Try 17 trillion and interest on that.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:28 | 4909271 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

Don't cry for me Argentina!!!!!  Fuck them, they are socialist pieces of shit running their country into the ground, oh wait, so is Amerkia...never mind.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:31 | 4909279 Catullus
Catullus's picture

ISDAof course will say this is not a default default.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:31 | 4909284 flyonmywall
flyonmywall's picture

I'd like to see the Supreme Court rule against the US gov't when it defaults and can't pay the Social Security and Treasury Bond obligations.

We'll see what happens then, for sure.

 

 

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:11 | 4909385 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

They won't. The FED will print.

 

Gas might be $19.999/gal., but there will never be a "hard" USD default (absent hangings in DC).

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:32 | 4909288 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

The Lehman of nations.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:33 | 4909289 p00k1e
p00k1e's picture

Will the U.N. pay the water bills in Argentina?

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:50 | 4909499 Matt
Matt's picture

It is amazing that they don't use silver coins in Argentina, as a inflation hedge. Oh well at least the Bitcoins can cross borders more easily.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 09:56 | 4909346 fishwharf
fishwharf's picture

Argentina has far more important business at hand than satisfying banksters demands.  They are still in the running for the World Cup, and tomorrow they play Switzerland, home to the mother of all central banks, the BIS.  AKA Bullies in Suits.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 15:06 | 4910767 Argieboy
Argieboy's picture

As if that was something relevant for my country or the swiss global banksters.. you freaking buyer of football propaganda zombie.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:04 | 4909362 dognamedabu
dognamedabu's picture

Argentina vs Switzerland

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:17 | 4909400 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

It's more than just a game, it's a lifestyle.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:16 | 4909397 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

"Global Usurpers"?  You mean those people you took money from and promised to pay back?   Admittedly, they were retarded for loaning you the funds but, what the hell, you are supposed to pay them back.

 

Also, "Global Usurpers"  would be a great band name.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 11:20 | 4909589 detached.amusement
detached.amusement's picture

duh, loan sharks look for people who have trouble paying them back.  then the amount owed goes parabolic, see.  now you owe me, now you are in my back pocket.

 

see greece, cyprus, and just about any other country that has had to stupidity to get in bed with the UN, IMF, world bank, etc, etc

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:16 | 4909398 The Wizard
The Wizard's picture

Will the Chinese show up and pay off the debt service. If so, what will the Chinese demand in return for paying off the debt? Also, what will the bond holders accept as value if the Chinese or someone else enter into the picture? The creditors structured a loan using fiat debt instruments and Argentina and many other countries are now questioning the value of the fiat. What a mess.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:21 | 4909408 Joe A
Joe A's picture

There is another country that is driven into the Ruble Yuan domain.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 15:04 | 4910749 Argieboy
Argieboy's picture

Sadly, we won't come out independent from the global currency areas (Dollar area, Ruble Yuan area) and Putin is comming over here end of July if you are interested to know.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:36 | 4909432 hallywood
hallywood's picture

It seems that no one is paying attention to the impact that this will have on New York as a vanilla jurisdiction for bond disputes. Sovereigns will stop using New York and the corrupt courts there. Sovereign defaults are as old as money itself. The damage to Argentina, not active in international markets anyway, will be superficial. The Paris Club is getting paid. This may be the beginning of the end of New York as a jurisdiction, as new bond issuers will simply stipulate to London or eventually Shanghai. Add this to the shake down of international banks (BNP anyone?) who at the moment are willing to pay the New York protection racket to keep USD$ clearing options open but for how long? Go to Porto Madero in Buenos Aries and note the largest building there. Hint...it is a Chinese Bank. Will the Argentine debt holders swap USD$ denominated bonds for new RMB denominated bonds? Anything is possible. One thing is certain, the world has had its fill of US hedgemony, liberation and democracy. The US economy is dead and the only exports to speak of are spywear, inflation and war.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:40 | 4909460 Little Boomer
Little Boomer's picture

I hope this doesn't mean Christina will have to miss some Botox injections.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 10:57 | 4909525 Duude
Duude's picture

However you want to look at it, Argentina is done borrowing from foreign investors this side of the 21st century.  Unless they were to suddenly discover a vast supply of oil reserves, Argentina will be funding all future expenses through taxes on a just-in-time mode each and every year. Sometimes default is a good thing to get a country back on the right track in fiscal management. For decades Argentinian politicians have done like politicians the world over, borrowing to finance a better standard of living in return for reelection. This never works in the long term. Every country gravitating toward more socialist policies will have to pay the piper in the end. Socialist policies are a luxury that can hardly be managed by the most wealthy of nations much less Argentina who has had a budgeting problem for decades.  In the end, a default will be good. A lot of short term pain that if managed correctly can lead to a better path.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 15:01 | 4910726 Argieboy
Argieboy's picture

As an argentine I agree 100% with you.. What we need right now is a default, new chaos situation (like 2001) and some blodshed. The only way to learn is when we need to start from scratch. Btw, I live in my country.. I am not an inmigrant in some foreign country.. And I am armed to defend family, property and true nation.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 11:06 | 4909547 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

with debt this size, this is a partnership, not a debtor/creditor relationship

 

 

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 11:15 | 4909576 headhunt
headhunt's picture

Is this the same partnership the US government has with its citizens?

Our 'partner' is embezzling all our money.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 11:13 | 4909571 headhunt
headhunt's picture

Crappy government model = crappy economy = crappy bonds = shit.

Who buys this shit?

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 11:26 | 4909615 smacker
smacker's picture

Some perspective.

An article from The Guardian dated 2003 about Argentina's default.

Note the bit about USDs being loaded into armoured vehicles.....

http://0o0o0o0o0o0o.aracari.warpmail.net/Misc/Guardian-Argentina-default...

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 11:48 | 4909693 Falconsixone
Falconsixone's picture

Hire blackwater to blackmail/payoff/threaten/murder everyone (that is what they do).

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 12:42 | 4909983 directaction
directaction's picture

Seriously, now. Why would anyone loan Argentina money in the first place? 

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 13:46 | 4910315 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

Being myself an argentinean, I would be very happy if my country does not borrow money at all.

But has to be said that your comment is complete BS, as the whole World is flowded by debt, at ammounts that CAN'T be paid. Starting by Europe, the US and so on. Debt is a tool to take control over countries. Ask Italy, i.e., or the US.

One "slight" difference to take into consideration is that Argentina's Central Bank  belongs to the argentinean State, while the FED, ECB, etc. belong to the bankers.

On the other hand, Argentina paid to bonholders of the restructured debt on June 26 (al least, the money was delivered at the Mellon Bank of New York on that date).

It would be an interesting game if it wasn't played over people's life. Over countries' resources (real assets).

“Spain is not Greece” Elena Salgado, Spanish Finance Minister, Feb. 2010
“Portugal is not Greece” The Economist, 22 Apr. 2010
“Ireland is not in Greek Territory” Irish Finance Minister Brian Lenihan.
2
Irish Finance Minister Brian Lenihan.
“Greece is not Ireland” George Papaconstantinou, Greek Finance Minister, 8 Nov. 2010
“Spain is neither Ireland nor Portugal” Elena Salgado, Spanish Finance Minister, 16 Nov. 2010
“Neither Spain nor Portugal is Ireland” Angel Gurria, Secretary-General OECD, 18 Nov. 2010

"Rethinking sovereign debt restructuring"

http://www.google.com.ar/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCoQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffaculty.london.edu%2Fmjacobides%2Fassets%2Fdocuments%2FRethinking_Sovereign_Debt_Restructuring.pdf&ei=Zp-xU8n9CfTesATmu4KwAw&usg=AFQjCNHsPsDHtFCUPZuv3Xv_8lXLYxeXPQ&sig2=RwqWpT4WaiP_WBYH9dj5nQ&bvm=bv.69837884,d.cWc

Should I add "Argentina is neither Spain nor Greece nor Ireland nor Portugal nor Cyprus nor... the US"?

A perverse game of Power. Depredation of you, me and all of us by the few, the Predators.

 

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 14:56 | 4910696 Argieboy
Argieboy's picture

Being myself another Argentine, I completely and fully agree with your words. Saludos y viva Argentina libre de los K y de los que vendrán en el futuro, puppets of the NWO.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 16:30 | 4911171 SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

To promote a political agenda, why else would you loan somebody money you knew they couldn't pay back except to induce a political response? 

 

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 16:52 | 4911251 TheRedScourge
TheRedScourge's picture

If they don't want to pay Singer, why don't they just announce that they'll buy all maturing bonds through the open market going forward? His claims should be well expired by now, they can't be traded through the open market.

Mon, 06/30/2014 - 17:53 | 4911501 Ghostdog
Ghostdog's picture

Cant Messi take a pay cut to pay for it?

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