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Are You Targeted By The NSA?

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Meet XKeyscore - "a computer network exploitation system", as described in an NSA presentation, devoted to gathering "nearly everything a user does on the internet." The German site Das Erste has exposed the shocking truth about the rules used by the NSA to decide who is a "target" for surveillance. While the NSA claims to only "target" a small fraction of internet users, the perhaps unsurprising truth is very different. As Boing Boing concludes, one expert suggested that the NSA's intention here was to separate the sheep from the goats -- to split the entire population of the Internet into "people who have the technical know-how to be private" and "people who don't" and then capture all the communications from the first group.

As Das Erste describes it,

The NSA program XKeyscore is a collection and analysis tool and "a computer network exploitation system", as described in an NSA presentation. It is one of the agency’s most ambitious programs devoted to gathering "nearly everything a user does on the internet." The source code contains several rules that enable agents using XKeyscore to surveil privacy-conscious internet users around the world. The rules published here are specifically directed at the infrastructure and the users of the Tor Network, the Tails operating system, and other privacy-related software.

And Cory Doctorow of Boing Boing summarizes,

In a shocking story on the German site Tagesschau (Google translate), Lena Kampf, Jacob Appelbaum and John Goetz report on the rules used by the NSA to decide who is a "target" for surveillance.

 

Since the start of the Snowden story in 2013, the NSA has stressed that while it may intercept nearly every Internet user's communications, it only "targets" a small fraction of those, whose traffic patterns reveal some basis for suspicion. Targets of NSA surveillance don't have their data flushed from the NSA's databases on a rolling 48-hour or 30-day basis, but are instead retained indefinitely.

The authors of the Tagesschau story have seen the "deep packet inspection" rules used to determine who is considered to be a legitimate target for deep surveillance, and the results are bizarre.

 

According to the story, the NSA targets anyone who searches for online articles about Tails -- like this one that we published in April, or this article for teens that I wrote in May -- or Tor (The Onion Router, which we've been posted about since 2004). Anyone who is determined to be using Tor is also targeted for long-term surveillance and retention.

 

Tor and Tails have been part of the mainstream discussion of online security, surveillance and privacy for years. It's nothing short of bizarre to place people under suspicion for searching for these terms.

More importantly, this shows that the NSA uses "targeted surveillance" in a way that beggars common sense. It's a dead certainty that people who heard the NSA's reassurances about "targeting" its surveillance on people who were doing something suspicious didn't understand that the NSA meant people who'd looked up technical details about systems that are routinely discussed on the front page of every newspaper in the world.

 

But it's not the first time the NSA has deployed specialized, highly counterintuitive wordsmithing to play games with the public, the law and its oversight. From James Clapper's insistence that he didn't lie to Congress about spying on Americans because he was only intercepting all their data, but not looking at it all; to the internal wordgames on evidence in the original Prism leak in which the NSA claimed to have "direct access" to servers from Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, Apple, etc, even though this "direct access" was a process by which the FBI would use secret warrants to request information from Internet giants without revealing that the data was destined for the NSA.

I have known that this story was coming for some time now, having learned about its broad contours under embargo from a trusted source. Since then, I've discussed it in confidence with some of the technical experts who have worked on the full set of Snowden docs, and they were as shocked as I was.

One expert suggested that the NSA's intention here was to separate the sheep from the goats -- to split the entire population of the Internet into "people who have the technical know-how to be private" and "people who don't" and then capture all the communications from the first group.

Another expert said that s/he believed that this leak may come from a second source, not Edward Snowden, as s/he had not seen this in the original Snowden docs; and had seen other revelations that also appeared independent of the Snowden materials. If that's true, it's big news, as Snowden was the first person to ever leak docs from the NSA. The existence of a potential second source means that Snowden may have inspired some of his former colleagues to take a long, hard look at the agency's cavalier attitude to the law and decency.

*  *  *

And just this week it was all found perfectly legal... But it appears the US continues to make friends wherever it goes...

The German attorney Thomas Stadler, who specializes in IT law, commented: "The fact that a German citizen is specifically traced by the NSA, in my opinion, justifies the reasonable suspicion of the NSA carrying out secret service activities in Germany.

 

For this reason, the German Federal Public Prosecutor should look into this matter and initiate preliminary proceedings."

So now you know - you are all being watched...

 

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Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:04 | 4922595 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Not surprised in the least, and it's the very reason I don't try to cover my tracks, as it only makes bigger tracks.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:05 | 4922601 CH1
CH1's picture

it's the very reason I don't try to cover my tracks, as it only makes bigger tracks.

Dude, you took the bait.

Sitting naked in front of the thug and hoping he's gentle is a bad idea.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:08 | 4922610 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Other than running my mouth here, I try to become part of the background noise, rather than the signal.

If I have anything private I want to do, the LAST place I would do it is on the internets. I don't even use email anymore except for work and shopping lists from the wife.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:09 | 4922615 CH1
CH1's picture

If I have anything private I want to do, the LAST place I would do it is on the internets. I don't even use email anymore except for work and shopping lists from the wife.

That I can understand. :)

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:20 | 4922649 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

It bears repeating -- they hate us for our freedoms.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:21 | 4922654 CH1
CH1's picture

Indeed!

The NSA hates us for using our freedoms!

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:38 | 4922709 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

If I don't like being "monitored," does that make me a racist?

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:50 | 4922739 CCanuck
CCanuck's picture

yes....if you are white everything you do is raycist,

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 17:44 | 4922941 linniepar
linniepar's picture

If you are reading this, you are being targeted.  Hash tag fight club. 

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 18:21 | 4923049 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

You are being targeted even if you aren't reading this.  New first rule about fight club -- no hash tags.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 21:27 | 4923578 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

What's the matter, McFly?

'CHICKEN'?

BACK TO THE FRONT...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCsH1g5ZESk

Let me spell this out. Nineteen Eighty-Six (The release date for this song).

I wonder what the release date for 'Electric Eye' by Judas Preist was? I watched them live at the Irvine Meadows Ampitheater in Orange County, CA., back in 1987 during their 'Turbo Fuel For Life' worldwide tour, and THIS SONG was by far the most popular. Overflow crowd (approaching 120,000 people). Oh, I see that it was 1982!

Predictive Fracking Programming, you know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUCRFMZ-hiY

What the FRACK do you think the 'HUBBLE SPACE TELESCOPE' program was all about? Do you think naievely that it was 'JET PROPULSION LABRATORY's attempt to look at the UNIVERSE? GTFOOH! JPL is a pseudo-contractor of the MIC! They have been reading license plates from space since about 1975, you dipstick!

Let me 'clue you in', here. The symbol AKA '#' doesn't really mean SHIT. They are looking for KEY WORDS and PHRASES. "BOMB, 9/11, Federal Reserve, Terror, ISIS, ISIL, 'Dirty bomb', and other such words and phrases are a standard part of their search algorythms. The 'hashtag' shit is simply a truncation for them to monitor for these ('Facebook' is a total sellout to the CIA and the NSA; as it was funded by them specifically as 'seed money').

I hope you enjoyed the video links.

 

 

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 22:12 | 4923676 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Ha!  The first slide has the program's email address.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 22:32 | 4923728 linniepar
linniepar's picture

Just watched the new Robocop.  It was great, including the doublespeak...

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 22:51 | 4923773 markmotive
Thu, 07/03/2014 - 23:41 | 4923852 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

If you're not on the list, you're no friend of mine.

Fri, 07/04/2014 - 01:02 | 4923988 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Fuck you NSA.  Can you read these words?  Go fuck yourself.  Can you read this?  You know my name, you know where I live mother fucker.  Fuck you NSA.  Come and get it.

Fri, 07/04/2014 - 03:36 | 4924115 Titus
Titus's picture

wave to the drone!

Fri, 07/04/2014 - 05:13 | 4924185 MeMadMax
MeMadMax's picture

The first thing they teach us in Network Security 101 is: "Any computer(or device) that is connected to the internet is considered unsecured". 

The same held true when I was in the navy. The military has a whole seperate network that is physically seperate from the networked systems that are connected to the internet.

Fri, 07/04/2014 - 17:37 | 4925511 Stalkedbyhackers01
Stalkedbyhackers01's picture

Titus, interesting name you used did you get it from viewing my comments made via yahoo search engine then reposted on zerohedge? Yes I am the guy being stalked by hackers who has has been hitlisted. Hi  zerohedge community it's me the guy who'se had his identity hijacked.

Fri, 07/04/2014 - 08:35 | 4924339 funthea
funthea's picture

I wonder what the release date for 'Electric Eye' by Judas Preist was? I watched them live at the Irvine Meadows Ampitheater in Orange County, CA., back in 1987 during their 'Turbo Fuel For Life' worldwide tour, and THIS SONG was by far the most popular. Overflow crowd (approaching 120,000 people). Oh, I see that it was 1982!

Except the part that Irvine meadows only has a capacity of 16,085 people. Just sayin...

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 20:16 | 4923332 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

SO, HOW does the NSA know I'm out chasing a little Tail? I suppose all the cameras in the singles bars are broadcasting... all those fucking 'smart-phones' everyone else has (including the girls I want to get in to bed) don't help, either.

I mean, I can't even get a little skirt without some perv at the NSA knowing about it! (yeah, it's 'sarc')

Bills in State legislatures in California and Utah are proposing cutting off the water to the NSA. That one's gonna be difficult, though, because the EPA is currently trying to take control of ALL the water in the CONUS.

Oh yeah, FUCK EVERY THREE-LETTER AGENCY! Let me add a 'hashtag' here: #. THERE, YOU FUCKERS, did you get this posting (no, not the good people at ZH, the OTHER readers here who are in to... [what's the expression for a pervert that likes to look through keyholes while people are fucking and jack off in the hallway?] CYBER-VOYERISM)?

Happy fucking Fourth Of July, CONUS.

How's that 'freedom' thing working out, anyway? Didja buy some Chinese-made firecrackers and some German beer and some GMO-fed beef for the Chinese-made barbeque, and are you waving that Sri-lankan-made 'merkun' flag? CAREFUL, the 'roided out cops might show up (tipped off by a tweet or a posting on the 'net, given out by the N S fucking A,) and shoot your dog and tazer your wife (just because they want to).

('XKEYSTROKE' is actually rather OLD news, by the way)

If you'd like to hear a story about how my home computer (not THIS one) was hacked in to by the NSA in about May 2008, and listen to the reason why this happened, just ask me. They let go of me after three weeks, by the way (but I KNOW they are logging every keystroke that I make at both of my locations via 'XKEYSTROKE'). It was kind of disquieting watching my cursor move all over the screen by itself, and seeing all my 'homepages' reset to a location in Alexandria, VA.. I looked the location up (just out of curiosity), and you KNOW what I found.It was kind of neat in a way, though, because Yahoo, AOL, and MSN ALL gave me the local news from the D.C area.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 21:33 | 4923591 varnelius
varnelius's picture

Hate to crush your ego, but that wasn't the NSA.  Only a garden variety hacker would make it so obvious that your system was compromised.

Fri, 07/04/2014 - 01:46 | 4924041 TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

If the NSA knows what I am doing then they know I have fucked more hot young pussy in the last 2 years then I have since I was 17. Get a whiff there boys?

Fri, 07/04/2014 - 03:33 | 4924113 varnelius
varnelius's picture

WTF does your comment have to do with my comment?  And yes I did -1 you.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 17:43 | 4922938 slightlyskeptical
slightlyskeptical's picture

You still have your freedom, but it seems that now you are really accountable for it.

Of course they try to seek out what is hidden from them. lends a bit of a new meaning to the whole ..."if you have nothing to hide".

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 19:24 | 4923202 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Their logic is impeccable.  If you want to track a SEC employee, you go to the PORN sites and track them there....

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:50 | 4922745 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

"It bears repeating -- they hate us for our freedoms."

They hate us for being less, so far, oppressed by the DC US than they are.

Soon we will hate them for their freedom.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 22:21 | 4923701 r00t61
r00t61's picture

I found this originally last year, when the whole Snowden business was really boiling over, and it seems appropriate to repeat.

Troll the NSA.

"Hey! How’s it going? I’m all right.

My job is so shitty I wish I could overthrow my boss. It’s like this oppressive regime where only true believers in his management techniques will stay around. I work marathon-length hours and he’s made all these changes that have made it the worst architecture firm to work at in Manhattan. Like he moved the office to the Financial District and fired my assistant. She was the only one who knew where the blueprints were! I need access to those blueprints to complete my job! F my life, right? And he keeps trying to start all these new initiatives to boost revenue, but seriously we just need to stick to what we do best. There’s only one true profit center. I seriously feel ready to go on strike at any second.

I just read this article about how these free radical particles can cause the downfall of good health and accelerate aging. These could actually cause death to millions of Americans. If these particles are flying around undetected everywhere, does that mean we’re all radicalized?

Have you seen the second season of Breaking Bad? I just finished it. I couldn’t believe that episode where they poison the guy with ricin! That was the bomb! I won’t say any more because I don’t want to reveal the earth-shattering events to come.

Oh! So I’ve been planning a big trip for the summer. I’m thinking of visiting all of the most famous suspension bridges in the United States. So probably like the Golden Gate Bridge, The Brooklyn Bridge, and the Verrazano Narrows Bridge. I’m gonna bring my younger brother and I know he’ll want to go to bars, so I’m thinking of getting him a fake drivers license, but I hope that doesn’t blow up in my face.

Okay, I gotta run! I’m late for flight school. I missed the last class where we learn how to land, so I really can’t miss another one. Talk to you later!"

Fri, 07/04/2014 - 00:39 | 4923957 MOB666
MOB666's picture

you sure you need to learn how to land?

Fri, 07/04/2014 - 03:43 | 4924118 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

I'm more worried about being targeted by CAPIA Clingons. Klingons too.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 21:24 | 4923567 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

"we are told that "they hate us for our freedoms" but that isnt true. democrats and republicans hate us for our freedoms. everyone else hates us becuase of our democrats and republicans"

Wish i could take credit for it, but it was said by someone much more clever than me, and truer words have never been spoken

Fri, 07/04/2014 - 00:35 | 4923951 mt paul
mt paul's picture


comment removed by NSA

pending review by DHS....

Fri, 07/04/2014 - 17:39 | 4925516 Stalkedbyhackers01
Stalkedbyhackers01's picture

That's cool because pending review by the FBI as well. You and your cohorts stalking me since August and reposting anything I type on zerohedge are doing something illegal did you know that? Ya that insane dude ranting is me. Funny how those comments magically appear other places eh? I thought what I wrote on my computer was private? Hey guys did you know my identity has been hijacked?

Fri, 07/04/2014 - 03:31 | 4924112 Magooo
Magooo's picture

It's too late --- they have loads of stuff on everyone gathered before we were aware of all of this.

Fri, 07/04/2014 - 01:03 | 4923989 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

Your spot on, spot on.  He took the bait by saing he doesn't cover his tracks.  By not covering your tracks it makes it easier for them to catalog you and find out what you are doing.  The other anonimizers and/or trying to be private makes it harder and gives them redundant and/or wrong data and so they can't trust all the way what is being done with someone who is trying to be private and if that is the person or not.  As an example look at Tor who changes your ip address online while you go through the system.  They can get bit and pieces and even eventually work it out but that takes resources and they don't want to wasted money and time going after a person who is or isn't a terrorists and maybe just was looking at porn or surfing the net.  As I stated, there is alot of false data and redundant data in the system and the more they have the less certain they are about the process.  But if you don't do anything it makes it easier.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 21:26 | 4923571 omniversling
omniversling's picture

This morning whilst trying to post a comment on another ZH page (on a mac) I got a screen freeze and an error message that ZH server could not be found. When the site came back up the post had been deleted. Just saying, but read this yesterday about NSA interference data packets that raised my awareness of TIA. Recommended, and some great comments.

How the NSA Plans to Infect ‘Millions’ of Computers with Malware

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/article/2014/03/12/nsa-plans-infect-m...

"A top-secret NSA presentation from 2012 reveals that the agency developed a man-in-the-middle capability called SECONDDATE to “influence real-time communications between client and server” and to “quietly redirect web-browsers” to NSA malware servers called FOXACID. In October, details about the FOXACID system were reported by the Guardian, which revealed its links to attacks against users of the Internet anonymity service Tor."

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:04 | 4922597 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Linux user = extremist

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:06 | 4922605 CH1
CH1's picture

Of course - either you use Microsoft and their Trusted Computing Module, or you're a perp.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:12 | 4922625 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

I don't feel perpy.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:24 | 4922665 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

As so eloquently stated by Fernando, "it's not how you feel.  It's how you look."

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 17:24 | 4922859 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

And you, my friend; you...well, you already know how you look.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 18:25 | 4923064 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

vi = extremist

emacs = extremist

 

Real friends don't let friends do windows

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 22:42 | 4923751 motorollin
motorollin's picture

nano only! emacs is for hacks. :)

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 23:46 | 4923872 Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

I ln -S ./nano ./pico since 1) I'm lame 2) It's wired into my muscle memory.

Fri, 07/04/2014 - 17:41 | 4925517 Stalkedbyhackers01
Stalkedbyhackers01's picture

Funny how that info was illegally obtained and reposted by hacking my computer though eh?

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:12 | 4922624 BorisTheBlade
BorisTheBlade's picture

Everyone with a brain enough = terrorist.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:19 | 4922647 CH1
CH1's picture

Everyone with a brain enough = terrorist.

Precisely. That or gives an actual shit about morality.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 23:44 | 4923863 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

People capable of independent thinking = terrorist.

.

Edit: (LofP had it covered just below:)

Fri, 07/04/2014 - 01:14 | 4924005 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

As governments teeter on the brink of failure or collapse, or at least a loss of their position in undisputed global preeminence, they also become more oppressive and draconian in a desperate attempt to maintain the status quo.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 23:33 | 4923845 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

In China there was a time when the intellectuals and learned had a long hair braid (1 cm wide) and the rest of the head bald.  When a new tyrant came along, he decided that he needed to crush all opposition ideas, and did not spare these thinkers - who were his biggest threats.  A few of their wisest, cut off this emblem and joined remote monasteries.

History rhymes.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:13 | 4922631 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

My personal favorite;

Capable of critical thinking=terrorist

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:24 | 4922661 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

The most pernicious virus of them all, critical thinking.  It mutates and overcomes the BS they try to kill it with quite effectively.  They've even been known to network with others of their kind for increased effectiveness and mutual protection.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 22:32 | 4923726 August
August's picture

Resents seeing white phosporus dropped on their town = terrorist

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 23:36 | 4923848 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

And critical thinkers who own land, are Terrarists.  ;-)

Fri, 07/04/2014 - 01:18 | 4924009 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

 Golf clap

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:25 | 4922660 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Cory Doctorow, quoted in the above article, wrote an excellent novel called Little Brother. It's sort of an updated 1984 aimed at teenagers.

My kid read it, too, so I guess he's already made The List. Like father, like son.

http://www.amazon.com/Little-Brother-Cory-Doctorow/dp/0765323117

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:49 | 4922742 fnord88
fnord88's picture

Worth reading even if you're an adult. kind of cheesy cause it's aimed at teenagers, but also has lots of good info for the adult who isn't a nerd about encryption, surveillance ect etc 

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 17:08 | 4922782 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Agreed on all counts, and I just learned he wrote a sequel:

http://www.amazon.com/Homeland-Cory-Doctorow/dp/0765333694

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 21:44 | 4923608 malek
malek's picture

Never had heard of that one up til now. Thanks!

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:04 | 4922598 CH1
CH1's picture

Darknets are the only answer.

If you can't be bothered to get one, you're fucked.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:09 | 4922617 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I don't trust those either. I'm assuming any anonymizer company is either fully complicit or otherwise compromised.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:13 | 4922632 CH1
CH1's picture

The are sources who are trustworthy, and their claims can be tested. Any decent one should have a fully offshore network, and definitely run their own Private Key Infrastructure.

Beside that, you can build your own.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 17:20 | 4922837 commander gruze?
commander gruze?'s picture

Herein lies the problem - trustworthiness. If you rely on trust you introduce counterparty risk of being betrayed. If you are serious about your privacy online, use trustless systems where qualities such as privacy, secrecy, security are provable by means of mathematics, not someone's good will or promise.

For this reason it is important to study how Bitcoin network operates, even if you have no intention of owning any BTCs.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 17:29 | 4922875 CH1
CH1's picture

If you are serious about your privacy online, use trustless systems where qualities such as privacy, secrecy, security are provable by means of mathematics, not someone's good will or promise.

Nothing inherently bad about that idea CG, but there is a practical issue:

Doing all that yourself is HARD. Not everyone is going to take three months off to become an uber-cypherpunk.

The truth is that even actual cypherpunks don't have that much time. Most people need help.

The problem with that, is that most people buy the shittiest services available, because they're cheap.

A good service (with professionals who do this stuff for a living) is still less than a buck per day, but you have to PAY, and not join the Free Shit Army.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 19:19 | 4923188 Row Well Number 41
Row Well Number 41's picture

Tanstafl, you get only what you pay for.

Free Luna

#41

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 19:57 | 4923287 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

+1 for the Heinlein reference!

My favorite sci-fi author...

DaddyO

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 17:49 | 4922951 slightlyskeptical
slightlyskeptical's picture

HaHaHahaha....it won't be long until the bitcoiners finds out the NSA has everything on all the business they transacted as well. Expect to get some tax bills once they get around to it as well. Instead of a w2 they will require a copy of your bitkey or whatever you use.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 18:08 | 4923006 CH1
CH1's picture

People being hurt makes you happy?

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 18:21 | 4923051 _disengage_
_disengage_'s picture

In terms of BTC, even the math behind the security of the system itself does not gurantee the BTC can not be manipulated.

Everyone forgets that, and I even think there was a story where MtGox did this, any ultra rich person could hire someone to set up some VPNs and write some persona software/bots that can create multiple BTC wallets and puchase small quantites totallying... enough to own the market.

Totally inside the rules of the software, but still ends up with BTC being "insecure".

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 19:36 | 4923235 teslaberry
teslaberry's picture

this is somethign bitcoiners fail to grasp.

even if the NSA itself is NOT satoshi nakamoto and this whole thing a godamn honey pot----then the only reason the government is not trying to shut down bitcoin altogether is because they are busy using it , and monitoring it, and finding that it is a useful social experiment they can monitor and use to their own beneficial purposes.

essentially sophistication works in the favor of sophisticated actors. this essential relationship of complexity with regard to social groupings is not limited to the internet. far from it. complexity of many types actually cuts in favor of those who can master the complexity more easily than those who cannot.

we think of guns and small hand cannons as relatively simple, but the complexity to create a gun factory and an ammunition factory is NOT SIMPLE.

and thus, the spanish were able to conquer all of south america and the british and europeans able to conquer india and asia with far inferior numbers of human beings.

weapons production (not so much usage) cuts in favor of the sophisticated actors. the african dictators who use the weapons may think they are very smart and clever just like the bit-coin folks----but they are using someone a system....that cuts decidedly in favor of their unwitting controllers.

sophisticated technology itself might be thought of as a virus of human thought that works its way through civlizations. the fire of promethius , burning itself through the behavior of humanity.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 21:50 | 4923623 malek
malek's picture

Someone get's it!   

(But the south america example is poor.)
And remember, 90% of population believe they have above-average sophistication.

 

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 20:23 | 4923368 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

"The are sources who are trustworthy, and their claims can be tested. Any decent one should have a fully offshore network, and definitely run their own Private Key Infrastructure."

See my post above. You REALLY need to ask me why the NSA hit me with XKEYSTROKE in 2008. OFFSHORE NETWORKS mean NOTHING.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 17:00 | 4922770 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

"I don't trust those either. I'm assuming any anonymizer company is either fully complicit or otherwise compromised."

100% correct.

If you don't own the encryption from end to end, you aren't secure.

I always laugh when I see a VPN company touting security from snooping. Yeah, like they aren't compromised and don't have a direct non-encrypted pipe running to the DC US' Stasi.

I would bet that  at least 50% of these VPN companies are owned by the DC US’ Stasi.

 

"Room 101 was for thinkers."

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 17:36 | 4922908 CH1
CH1's picture

any anonymizer company is either fully complicit or otherwise compromised." - 100% correct.

No, not 100% correct. This I know.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 21:01 | 4923469 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

"any anonymizer company is either fully complicit or otherwise compromised." - 100% correct.

No, not 100% correct. This I know."

Expound, or retract this statement.

The current 'Internet' was originally concieved and built as a method of telecommunications between CONUS MILITARY bases around the world. The USGOV contracted Hughes Aircraft and 'Intelsat' to build the infrastructure, which (as I recall from visiting Dad's work one day in the early 1970's) consisted of 7 satellites in geo-syncronous orbit launched by NASA. It used to be a big deal every time they launched these 'telecommunications satellites' in the monthy editions of the 'Hughes News' that Dad brought home. Intelsats 1-6 were already in orbit, and Intelsat 7 was in progress, when I and my brother and mother went to Dad's work back in '72 (or, was it '73? DAMN, that was a long time ago!), and we got to see all the posters of the 'artist's renderings' commissioned by NASA of these satellites.

The whole 'public' thing went on-line in about 1989, as I recall. The 'dial-up modum' was needed, and the computers used 5 and a 1/4 inch diameter floppy discs to load the O.S. every time the system was started (the 3 and a half-inch discs came out later, and my old HP 8088 O.S. had both disc sizes available. I used to do the household finances on this machine back in '92 and proceeding years, and still have the discs (but not the machine, unfortunately). They PIGGYBACKED on the constellation of military satellites and telephone cabe networks (with permissioins granted by the USGOV in return for the ability to listen to and record the traffic). Intelsat has gone 'private' I understand, and I seem to think they might be 'Eurocentered' now. Hughes Aircraft has long been gone (after the holding company named 'SUMMA' broke the Hughes empire up after Howard's death). My DAD BUILT the ELECTRONICS that were used back in the 1970's (that's what he DID for a living, for a long time, before he eventually retired as the Head of the 'Radar Systems Group' out of El Segundo, CA.).

So-called 'anonymizer' companies need to get BANDWIDTH, and they don't have their OWN satellites and phone line networks.

'Of course, your 'encryption keys' are held in the highest mode of security, and may only be shared in case of a national threat or other emergency. Think of this as a super-secret number between you and the government, which will NEVER be used, sold, or given to other agencies. Trust us. If you don't give us this key, YOU MAY NOT USE OUR NETWORK. Of course, if you write this simple line of code in to your program, we will allow a waiver (in YOUR case)'. Either THAT, AND/OR the CIA has already planted their people in these companies; who go in and add the backdoor to the code (call it 'Plan B'). Sometimes 'coersion' cooperation works, and sometimes it doesn't; but EITHER WAY, the stuff isn't 'secure'.

Yeah, this is how it is. REALLY.

SO, CH1, tell us about what YOU know.

 

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 21:53 | 4923627 spinone
spinone's picture

Whatever your dad was working on was not the early intenet, or DARPANET, now the SIPERNET.  That was early fiber optics.  I'm pertty certian it was early NAVSTAR, which gives GPS coordinates only incidently to having 4 atomic clocks on each bird.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 22:07 | 4923658 CH1
CH1's picture

Big Brother is not God and does not posess all power.

Your imaginings do not equal reality. 

Was Lavabit corrupt? They shut down rather than give up their customers. And they are not alone.

Fri, 07/04/2014 - 05:21 | 4924191 StormShadow
StormShadow's picture

"Your imaginings do not equal reality. "

Oh really? With every passing day comes new leaked data confirming that my imaginings of what .gov is up to do, in fact, equal reality.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:13 | 4922630 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

What's a Darknet?

Oh, shit.....

Goddamit!  Thanks, CH1.  Now I'm on the list.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:18 | 4922636 CH1
CH1's picture

Hehe...

It's a cypherpunk thing: walling off your corner of the online world with encryption.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 19:45 | 4923258 infinity8
infinity8's picture

O, for a corner lot!

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:27 | 4922674 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Oh, no, not you, too, Yen!  You guys are trying to get me in trouble.  I'm a good upstanding member of the community.  I don't need problems with the authorities.

Now, off to match some bestiality midget porn.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:33 | 4922698 Tinky
Tinky's picture

Very educational; I previously had no idea that minature donkeys were of any practical value.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 17:15 | 4922807 CCanuck
CCanuck's picture

No Debt,

I normally do not correct postings, however "Now, off to match some bestiality midget porn."

I have to ask, given the space between the M and W on a qwerty keyboard...

Are you going to match the porn? or had typing error and your just gonna watch?

Just ask'n...as we have difficulty finding willing midgets in Canada.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 17:29 | 4922879 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

I was typing upside down?  My hands were otherwise occupied?

Watch, match.  220, 221.  Whatever it takes.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 18:17 | 4923035 JackT
JackT's picture

Since we're on the subject. I believe you meant to use "you're" not "your". It's ok. We all do it from time to time.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 20:51 | 4923475 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Good fellas.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 21:06 | 4923482 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  The Buick " Grand National" is, and always will be the blueprint for 1/4 mile awesomeness!

  I love that car NoDebt

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 23:47 | 4923875 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Ever heard of snail-mail?  Ever heard of using multiple channels, to carry different parts of a message (phone, fax, email, cyber-phone, snail-mail)?

There's a useful term that ZHers should learn (from EE):  BANDWIDTH. 

Each Domain type (physical, electrical & electronic, hi-tech, low-tech, analog, digital) has its own Bandwidth and COSTS (capital and resources) associated with it.  The trick is to exceed their Bandwidth capacity per unit time, and to thus raise their true Cost to impossible, unaffordable or unsustainable levels.

A toast to Spartacus, Hannibal, Attila and the Barbarians.  Nothing lasts forever, not even the mightiest of empires.  ALL shall bow down to the Laws of Nature - the only true God.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:08 | 4922611 laomei
laomei's picture

All the cool kids are targetted by the NSA, if you're not a target you're probably doing something wrong.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:13 | 4922628 BorisTheBlade
BorisTheBlade's picture

or you work for the NSA

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:16 | 4922637 CH1
CH1's picture

or you work for the NSA

Not targetted (maybe), but they are definitely not the cool kids. They're the snitches and narcs.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:29 | 4922682 pods
pods's picture

You know what they say about snitchez?

Snitchez get stitchez, bitchez.

pods

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 17:04 | 4922779 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

"Stichez" can't fix what a guillotine does.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 18:28 | 4923069 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

No one "works" for the NSA ... it is a way of life.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 22:32 | 4923727 NickVegas
NickVegas's picture

You really think the NSA doesn't monitor their own people? No one gets off the animal farm.

Fri, 07/04/2014 - 03:00 | 4924090 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

O.K. But the NSA monitors every organization and individual that doesn't monitor itself.  So, does it monitor itself?  If, and only if it doesn't monitor itself.  Think about that one until your head explodes.

See, they are going to be limited by the paradoxes of set theory itself!  Calling Cantor, Calling Mr 

G. Cantor.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 19:01 | 4923148 neidermeyer
neidermeyer's picture

If any of the NSA monitoring this site want to retire to an island and have enormous wealth let me in on how to communicate with NAGRA3.. I know you're watching me so lets talk.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 21:49 | 4923616 omniversling
omniversling's picture

Too old to be a cool kid, but:

 

 This morning whilst trying to post on another ZH page (on a mac) I got a screen freeze and an error message that ZH server could not be found. When the site came back up the post had been deleted. Just saying, but read this yesterday about NSA interference data packets that raised my awareness of TIA. Recommended, and some great comments.

How the NSA Plans to Infect ‘Millions’ of Computers with Malware

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/article/2014/03/12/nsa-plans-infect-m...

"A top-secret NSA presentation from 2012 reveals that the agency developed a man-in-the-middle capability called SECONDDATE to “influence real-time communications between client and server” and to “quietly redirect web-browsers” to NSA malware servers called FOXACID. In October, details about the FOXACID system were reported by the Guardian, which revealed its links to attacks against users of the Internet anonymity service Tor."

 Appelbaum was responsible for much of Tor's functionality I believe, so should know what he's talking about. Or is a tool... Either way, fascinating info in these lectures, even if it's only to inform the wakened sheeple to the size of the paddock, and prescribe the colour of the grass..

Jacob Applebaum: To Protect And Infect, Part 2 [30c3]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vILAlhwUgIU 

Jacob Appelbaum & Dmytri Kleiner - Resisting The Surveillance State And Its Network Effects

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOiFgUj9bWI 

Jacob Appelbaum keynote address

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFnbTCkWq9s 

Jacob Appelbaum - surveillance and you Eindhoven 28-apr-2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhZIwZgcT5E

 

 

 

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:11 | 4922622 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

I have my own personal part time NSA observer who tells me when to update, and which apps i should use. So i'm watching porn.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:17 | 4922641 CH1
CH1's picture

who tells me which apps i should use

Apps? You must be joking.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:30 | 4922685 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

The nailgun app is awesome. Those guys at the NSA really know what they are doing.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 19:10 | 4923158 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

@CH1

It was a heart rate app that helped me figure out that I was EHS after a Dr. put me on $400 monthly meds that didn't work. TPTB may grab that info but fuque'm. I used it in airplane mode. WiFi, Bluetooth, Cell Towers & Smart Meters were nuking my ass. My heart rate was following an algorithm every nite from 3a to 4a. Still does but not to the same degree. A BP cuff would only give me the PR result, not the real time readings.  No doubt in my mind I would have had a stroke or heart attack by now.

Perhaps an angle you haven't considered in your critique. 

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 21:57 | 4923634 omniversling
omniversling's picture

EMF and the effects on living organisms:

 

RESONANCE - BEINGS OF FREQUENCY


http://vimeo.com/54189727#at=0 

 

HAARP Holes In Heaven (Full Length Documentary)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHf8xC_iZ0Q

Fri, 07/04/2014 - 01:41 | 4924036 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Thanks. I'd seen the 1st but not that particular HAARP video.

My eyes were also affected. Dry eyes. An opthamologist just advised artificial tears. My sibling went as far as to have the tear ducts plugged. 

This too has subsided when you sleep in a faraday.  Grounding helps too.

Look at all of the OTC & Pharma alone due to this, not to mention the medical boon. 

Cancer is next.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:12 | 4922626 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Okay fine, let's see if the Germans actually do something about it.

Hey Angela, the check is in the mail bitch,

-O

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:35 | 4922704 Raynja
Raynja's picture

The check should arrive a day after the gold.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:14 | 4922634 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  I hope so!

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:14 | 4922635 bigrooster
bigrooster's picture

Well I want to be lion, but  I guess that a goat will due.

 

#Tor #FUCKYOUNSA #IRANISTHEBOMB

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 18:01 | 4922992 w1LE.e
w1LE.e's picture

One day, I say today we live as a lion.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:15 | 4922639 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

All those posting on ZH are given  'special' handling within the NSA.

 

A bit OT, but has the NSA found those missing emails from Lerner?

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 17:09 | 4922797 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

"A bit OT, but has the NSA found those missing emails from Lerner?"

Yes. They are on an erased hard drive in a landfill in Poughkeepsie where they were "accidently" left.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:18 | 4922642 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

Reality is catching up to my paranoia

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:20 | 4922650 CH1
CH1's picture

Reality is catching up to my paranoia

Ain't that the truth.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:39 | 4922712 Gaius Frakkin' ...
Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

These days, my biggest fear is that I'm not paranoid enough...

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:31 | 4922690 exi1ed0ne
exi1ed0ne's picture

I'm SO stealing that.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:21 | 4922651 MASTER OF UNIVERSE
MASTER OF UNIVERSE's picture

The NSA can track all they want and fill their hat for all I care. The NSA

does not have the brains to escape their situation and it is merely a matter of time before they are downsized like the rest of the Military Industrial Complex. Americans cannot afford the MIC anymore and the entire world knows it. Frankly, the USA is going down for the count and

no matter how 'intelligent' they appear to be in the eyes of the American public, they will never appear to be 'intelligent' when one looks at the facts!

Up yours, NSA.

OCCUPY EVERYTHING including the Military Industrial Complex, debt slaves!

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 18:25 | 4923061 Demonoid
Demonoid's picture

As history amply demonstrates, the state security apparatus and the secret police are the last to feel the budget axe, even when the rest of the country (and government) are in tatters.

Eastern bloc communists (East Germany, Romania, Bulgaria, etc., and of course, USSR) were going at it hard right through the 80s.

I used to actually believe Western democracies, and especially the US, were different. Maybe they were, once.

Now the US domestic espionage juggernaut makes the Stasi look like kindergartners.

 

 

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:35 | 4922652 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

The feds pay for 60 percent of Tor’s development. Can users trust it?

http://www.infowars.com/the-feds-pay-for-60-percent-of-tors-development-...

The FBI Seized All of TorMail’s Data and Is Using It to Catch Hackers

http://www.infowars.com/the-fbi-seized-all-of-tormails-data-and-is-using...

Bust Reveals Government Runs Hacking Groups

http://www.infowars.com/bust-reveals-government-runs-hacking-groups

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 17:11 | 4922800 dot_bust
dot_bust's picture

Very good info. Thanks.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:22 | 4922653 RealityCheque
RealityCheque's picture

Seems a good time to break this old favorite out for my cunty friends at the NSA

....................../´¯/) 
....................,/¯../ 
.................../..../ 
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ 
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\ 
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') 
.........\.................'...../ 
..........''...\.......... _.·´ 
............\..............( 
..............\.............\...

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 18:02 | 4922995 smacker
smacker's picture

.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:22 | 4922656 futureboom
futureboom's picture

Not quite sure why any of this is an issue, if it means that my family is not blown up by some nutter with a view that you can't have your own belief system and thoughts. With the evolution of technology this was an inevitability in the words of the Matrix and should be supported to a certain degree, however anything legal will always be abused within a system for political and other reasons. Personally I vote for the deep trawl and travel to work with a little more comfort.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:25 | 4922669 RealityCheque
RealityCheque's picture

Please be being sarcastic.

If you aren't, you are scared of nothing but lies and bullshit.

Are you also afraid of Bigfoot? Because the "nutter" that wants to blow up your family is a mirage and the deed is far more likely to be committed by your ever-loving government.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:38 | 4922710 futureboom
futureboom's picture

Governments only carry out very very limited activity that is very specific to problems that benefit the rest of us in the end (ok, there may be an interim shit storm). The reality is a little more dull, because the perceprion of an ever seeing eye is some years away yet.The real issue that you may be addressing is when the some elements of government decide to do nothing when they have reasonable doubt to act first. This is where reality and conspiracy collide, it's not the government that may act but not act and is usually a mistake.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:42 | 4922721 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Now you just sound like a bot. Do you also happen to write corporate earnings reports for AP?

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 17:02 | 4922774 Portuguese Revo...
Portuguese Revolutionary's picture

Dude, he's been a member for a WHOLE 3 DAYS!!

This site is getting more trolls than a JRR Tolkien novel!

Talk about disinfo and counter intel... Oy vey!

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 17:21 | 4922839 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

We know GCHQ infiltrates online communities, and if GCHQ does it, you can bet your ass that some three letter agency in the US does.  Is this guy a gubment troll?  Who fucking knows.  But ZH is so paranoid when it comes to that shit that it is fundamentally immune.  Problem is, the reasons for the paranoia keep on getting confirmed. 

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 18:29 | 4923076 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Look at the bright side ... trollling keeps them off the streets where they might do some real harm.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 17:41 | 4922933 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

The gentleman in question has a lot of Computer development experience

Fri, 07/04/2014 - 09:36 | 4924422 Me.Grimlock
Me.Grimlock's picture

We haven't seen Jay Carney or Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf in a while.

Maybe the economy got so bad that they finally had to find alternate jobs.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:52 | 4922743 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Futureboom, do you know how many people die on the highways of 'Merica every year?  Its about 40,000 people a year.  How many people have died because of terrorist attacks in this country since 9-11?  About 3k in the trade towers, and a few dozen since then?  I'll be generous and say 4,000 in 13 years.  So in that same time about 520,000 people have died on the roads vs. 4000 due to terrorists.  Do you worry every time you get into the car to drive somewhere?  Because you are about 130 times more likely to die in a car accident than die at the hands of some brown person from the Middle East.

And you are willing to give up your freedoms for what again???

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 16:57 | 4922765 futureboom
futureboom's picture

It's not the numbers that is significant it is the perceprion of the population as a whole to choice. Give poeple a choice and they don't complain when shit happens because they are driving down a road at 90mph, I didn't when I had to climb out the windscreen after a crash. The issue is over you choices being taken away and your risks no longer being your own decisions, which is why the forum here is all against the fed, etc. because the choices of freedom to act are being removed or tweaked within a legal framework who's complexity only creates the opportunity of abuse.

I'd give up my freedom to browse porn for the sake of capturing a Bravik before they act,

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 17:01 | 4922773 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me the liberty to browse porn or give me death.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 23:07 | 4923802 August
August's picture

And the good sense not to use it.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 17:19 | 4922831 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

The problem is getting your liberty back.     The problem is NOT that government is evil.   The problem is that large organizations - regardless of type - with lots of power are always captured by evil people.   

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 17:36 | 4922913 suteibu
suteibu's picture

"windscreen?"  Are we contracting out trolling to India now?

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 18:26 | 4923067 El Vaquero
Thu, 07/03/2014 - 18:41 | 4923097 futureboom
futureboom's picture

Correct, vehicled rolled twice after going off the road and fortunately landed the right way up.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 18:45 | 4923108 futureboom
futureboom's picture

Wow, just read the link.

Is it really that easy to get tagged this way just by having a view and belief that the state of play is screwed up and could be better, but equially it could be a lot worse. Everyone is entitled to thier own views and beliefs.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 19:03 | 4923151 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

I'm not saying you are, I'm not saying you're not, but I can guaran-ass-tee that you aren't going to fit in around here.  This is fight club.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 19:28 | 4923212 futureboom
futureboom's picture

Maybe true, but you forgot the second rule.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 22:14 | 4923683 CCanuck
CCanuck's picture

The penguin is right you aint gonna fit it....so do all of us a favor ....kick stones

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 18:49 | 4923115 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

Probably not.  It is impossible to drive 90MPH there and keep your teeth intact.

Thu, 07/03/2014 - 18:02 | 4922989 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

The issue is over you[r] choices being taken away and your risks no longer being your own decisions, which is why the forum here is all against the fed, etc. because the choices of freedom to act are being removed or tweaked within a legal framework who's complexity only creates the opportunity of abuse.

 

That is right. What gives you, or anyone else for that matter, the right to remove my Liberty and Freedom, forcefully?

 

Rights, Liberty, and Freedom are not granted by the State. They are NATURAL, God Given, INALIENABLE. Any party which encroaches upon that does so as an act of violence. IT is a violation. Those whom act in this way are no better than RAPISTS....PEDOPHILES. (Note the Latin Root, viol.)

 

If you choose to yield your own freedom then knock yourself out and do so. That is your choice.

 

But to not attempt to force your choices upon me. My adoption of the non aggression policy does not mean that I yield any right to self defense against aggressive action, of violation to my personal Liberty.

 

"The best defense is a good offense." ~ Don Coryell, Coach, San Diego Chargers, NFL Football Team

 

There will be Hell to pay if your Government decides to aggress against me.

 

I will bet that I can spend $5 faster than you can spend $500,000. All wars are Economic.

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 17:28 | 4936987 shiftless
shiftless's picture

"Anyone who is fucking stupid enough to give up essential liberty in exchange for the delusion of safety, is a clueless asshat who will inevitably be bent over the table and given the raw no-lube ass pounding he so richly deserves." -- Benjamin Franklin

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!