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Are You Targeted By The NSA?
Meet XKeyscore - "a computer network exploitation system", as described in an NSA presentation, devoted to gathering "nearly everything a user does on the internet." The German site Das Erste has exposed the shocking truth about the rules used by the NSA to decide who is a "target" for surveillance. While the NSA claims to only "target" a small fraction of internet users, the perhaps unsurprising truth is very different. As Boing Boing concludes, one expert suggested that the NSA's intention here was to separate the sheep from the goats -- to split the entire population of the Internet into "people who have the technical know-how to be private" and "people who don't" and then capture all the communications from the first group.
The NSA program XKeyscore is a collection and analysis tool and "a computer network exploitation system", as described in an NSA presentation. It is one of the agency’s most ambitious programs devoted to gathering "nearly everything a user does on the internet." The source code contains several rules that enable agents using XKeyscore to surveil privacy-conscious internet users around the world. The rules published here are specifically directed at the infrastructure and the users of the Tor Network, the Tails operating system, and other privacy-related software.
And Cory Doctorow of Boing Boing summarizes,
In a shocking story on the German site Tagesschau (Google translate), Lena Kampf, Jacob Appelbaum and John Goetz report on the rules used by the NSA to decide who is a "target" for surveillance.

Since the start of the Snowden story in 2013, the NSA has stressed that while it may intercept nearly every Internet user's communications, it only "targets" a small fraction of those, whose traffic patterns reveal some basis for suspicion. Targets of NSA surveillance don't have their data flushed from the NSA's databases on a rolling 48-hour or 30-day basis, but are instead retained indefinitely.
The authors of the Tagesschau story have seen the "deep packet inspection" rules used to determine who is considered to be a legitimate target for deep surveillance, and the results are bizarre.

According to the story, the NSA targets anyone who searches for online articles about Tails -- like this one that we published in April, or this article for teens that I wrote in May -- or Tor (The Onion Router, which we've been posted about since 2004). Anyone who is determined to be using Tor is also targeted for long-term surveillance and retention.
Tor and Tails have been part of the mainstream discussion of online security, surveillance and privacy for years. It's nothing short of bizarre to place people under suspicion for searching for these terms.
More importantly, this shows that the NSA uses "targeted surveillance" in a way that beggars common sense. It's a dead certainty that people who heard the NSA's reassurances about "targeting" its surveillance on people who were doing something suspicious didn't understand that the NSA meant people who'd looked up technical details about systems that are routinely discussed on the front page of every newspaper in the world.

But it's not the first time the NSA has deployed specialized, highly counterintuitive wordsmithing to play games with the public, the law and its oversight. From James Clapper's insistence that he didn't lie to Congress about spying on Americans because he was only intercepting all their data, but not looking at it all; to the internal wordgames on evidence in the original Prism leak in which the NSA claimed to have "direct access" to servers from Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, Apple, etc, even though this "direct access" was a process by which the FBI would use secret warrants to request information from Internet giants without revealing that the data was destined for the NSA.
I have known that this story was coming for some time now, having learned about its broad contours under embargo from a trusted source. Since then, I've discussed it in confidence with some of the technical experts who have worked on the full set of Snowden docs, and they were as shocked as I was.
One expert suggested that the NSA's intention here was to separate the sheep from the goats -- to split the entire population of the Internet into "people who have the technical know-how to be private" and "people who don't" and then capture all the communications from the first group.

Another expert said that s/he believed that this leak may come from a second source, not Edward Snowden, as s/he had not seen this in the original Snowden docs; and had seen other revelations that also appeared independent of the Snowden materials. If that's true, it's big news, as Snowden was the first person to ever leak docs from the NSA. The existence of a potential second source means that Snowden may have inspired some of his former colleagues to take a long, hard look at the agency's cavalier attitude to the law and decency.
* * *
And just this week it was all found perfectly legal... But it appears the US continues to make friends wherever it goes...
The German attorney Thomas Stadler, who specializes in IT law, commented: "The fact that a German citizen is specifically traced by the NSA, in my opinion, justifies the reasonable suspicion of the NSA carrying out secret service activities in Germany.
For this reason, the German Federal Public Prosecutor should look into this matter and initiate preliminary proceedings."
So now you know - you are all being watched...
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"Futureboom": One little point is that governments themselves are doing very little of this, because it's flagrantly illegal. What they are doing is hiring private corporations to do it, on terms that (as written) are vague enough any lawsuit can be dismissed on lack of standing, or lost in the cracks between what was and what was not specifically detailed in the contract. A big, non-actionable, misunderstanding, see? That's how the CIA etc. can claim they haven't done any kidnapping and torturing; they hired mercenaries to do it for them, and all our "Status of Forces" agreements specifically exempt mercenaries from any legal oversight. Snowden himself wasn't working for the NSA when he found what he found; he was working for Booz/Allen/Hamilton. So the private corporation collects everyone's data on NSA's spec, then alerts the NSA, the NSA goes and gets a rubberstamped warrant, and it's all legal. By the time an actual NSA employee looked at it, there was a warrant. But to know what to look for? That was done by the private corporation. None of the laws limiting NSA and similar agency activity ever mention private corporations in any way any attorney couldn't dodge out of.
Pardon me Mr robot but....
Go. And. Fuck. Yourself.
And if you by some chance happen to be a human being... Well your mother has my sympathies for producing such a sniveling fuckwit of a child.
Robot
Human
Turing Test
Mr. Robot are hackers hacking my computer and reposting it on zerohedge. Ive been writing random gibberish and they the hackers who have been stalking me since last Augusr repost. I'm that guy you know the one who likes porn. The point of my typing such nonsense is that the hackers keep reposting it. By reposting it they are violating the law by hacking my computer and posting illegally obtained data.
If NSA is not stopped, the collected data will determine who you are when the time comes (who you vote for, whom you worship). It will determine where you go depending on who is deciding. And over time, the person making the decision may vary from one extreme to another.
More going on here than that. I am trying to write a book regarding my mother's life in an orphanage. I was told "no sad stories" by the ghost writer...they are not being accepted.
Bunny, you aren't planning on trying to get an old-fashioned publishing contract, are you? With a old-time publishing company? That's nuts. One of the actual advantages of this brave new world is that for several hundred bucks you can sell your book on Amazon (you get an ISBN number), without using a publisher. That way there is NO GATEKEEPER. Your story can be as sad as you damn well please. Do you have any idea what the people are like who work at old-time publishing houses???? They have a very, very narrow world view; they would not want your book in a hundred years. But they are SOL, and they are going under, because no-one needs them anymore.
Years ago, my father in law tried to get a book published. No luck. Then he used a vanity press (that was the old days) - that was kind of pointless. Now he writes book after book after book and sells them print-on-demand on Amazon, and they actually sell decently. If you put the topic in the title, it will really easily come up in people's searches.
Where was the orphanage that your mom was in? Maybe someone else who was also in it, or whose parent was in it, would like to help you write the book.
Have you ever had to check someones bags out on a train who left in a hurry with sweat pouring off thier face saying nothing? Decision to walk away from the area or check it out, what would you do? Say it's the government, a big conspiracy and cross your fingers?
I'd call Jack Fucking Bauer.
'Have you ever had to check someones bags out on a train who left in a hurry with sweat pouring off thier face saying nothing?'
Dashiell Hammett of the day award.
+
Have you ever had to check someones bags out on a train who left in a hurry with sweat pouring off thier face saying nothing? Decision to walk away from the area or check it out, what would you do? Say it's the government, a big conspiracy and cross your fingers?
Sounds to me like that person was a fucked up, spaced out Heroin Junkie.
I'd grab the bag and turn it in to a Lost and Found.
If it was a bomb then I would not know it. I would not know what hit me.
You see...I am not afraid of dyin'.
But what is really sad about you is that you ARE AFRAID OF LIVING.
I refuse to live my life in FEAR.
"he" wishes he was alive. Being a troll algo is a lonely existence...
Go play Jenga in forest windblow with a chainsaw, feel what its like and reply back. That's what feeling alive is like.
That is chickenshit. Do you want to feel alive for a moment?
Let's go hunting.
My address is 12223B Woodside Ave., Lakeside, CA, USA.
It is the thrill of the kill that makes one feel most alive.
Only one ZHer has had the guts to show up at my door.
Bring your guns.
Or are you just like the rest of them?
Did you and him/her go snipe hunting?
You're a good man, Tom, but I advise against posting your public identity. Choose your battles. You can't take on "the world." I've been hurt being so open. I am not saying to live in fear, but being more private could help your longevity and income potential. All I am saying is think about it. I appreciate your bravery, but we need you for the long haul.
Member for 3 days 10 hours...
How's the weather in your NSA cubicle?
Unfortunately the nutter that has the view that you can't have your own beliefs and thoughts is your government. The Fed isn't the only entity that manages expectations.
Even if you are okay with willfully surrendering your liberty (you really shouldnt. btw you are what the NSA calls 'sheep') at a minimum this is upsetting because it is just another bloated and amorphous government project that bleeds money and accomplishes nothing. It as an ambitious project run by unambitious beuracrats. The NSA's mission is nothing short of 'capture everything', but to do what with it?
The answer is, of course, nothing. The easy part is intruding on your liberty and storing information. You only need money and power for that. The hard part is making sense of the data. OF everything released by Snowden, did you notice that part is never mentioned, probably for the simple reason that they dont have the faintest idea on how to get an ounce of useful information off of everything they collected.
My line of work is bioinformatics. Basically what the NSA does except instead of capturing your wife's conversations with her lover, I capture RNA. Ive worked on the same data set for two years, and only now I am getting any useful information from it. Now imagine if everyday you had a new data set, which is basically what is happening with 24/7 surveillance of all communication. Do you really think they can make sense of any of what they're collecting? No fucking way.
I would agree in part that they can make little sens of the mass as a whole at the moment, however the benefit is in the restrospective data trawl and links, which manually take time but give the best results. Having the data in the first place is the main and big benefit, just look at gorgon stare and the technicals behind that.
How many of you carry a mobile around with you and think that it is secure and any different to your movements on the internet?
In other words, there's no way this incredibly invasive and monumentally expensive system can actually prevent terrorism; it can only maybe-possibly-hopefully help lead us to the perpetrators after the fact.
It's like Retarded Minority Report.
He is just another Statist Slime Troll. Why engage?
No, he or she just happens to have a different point of view. It's ok to have a different point of view. That's why you should engage.
In part yes, I would assume that it can't catch a fly without a human at the keyboard at the moment.
The one thing that a lot of systems have in common is the system itself is not the key value but the data that resides within the system and it is here where the data of the past can finger those responsible (preferably trigger finger). How much value do you place on hanging those that did wrong to your own? How would any terrorist act be seen if the authorities just shrugged thier shoulders and said "well, we havn't a clue" and put it into a cold case.
The financial system is heading into a storm and in the near future it is going to be more sensitive to external shocks. If those shocks can be headed off or at least moderated to prevent a collapse than I vote for that rather than lighting up the candles. Watch Ukraine over the next 3 weeks.
Ah hang around futureboom. You might learn a thing or two, but there are some definite entrenched viewpoints here.
Looking at things in retrospect is one of the dangers.
For example let's say that you get the attention of the authorities at a protest rally. Next thing you know they are combing video and digital records of you to find a crime to fit thier suspect, and they will have proof of you doing it...maybe you ran a light? tagged a train car? Could have been a couple of years ago...any petty crime will do as long as the statute hasn't run out.
Highly suggest that you (or anyone who cares to know a bit more about surveillance) watch Terms & Conditions May Apply. It is available on Netflix.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2084953/
I've said the same thing before, but I don't think I got much traction with it. There is no way the NSA can collate that much data. There aren't enough man-hours in the universe to get the job done; and if they try to write an algorithm to sift it, it will be about as effective as Facebook's mood-altering experiment (i.e. not very).
The general point that I have tried to make in many venues and many contexts, since a least the late '90s, is that information is not ideation. Information is simply that which can be quantified, which in and of itself has no meaning at all. It takes a human being with a will and an intellect to interpret and act on information, and given the declining quality of the individuals in government today, I don't expect them to do much with it.
I am more afraid of them losing control of their creation, sorceror's apprentice-wise, and fouling the gears of modern civilization than I am of being willfuly persecuted by them. In the end it makes no difference how society is destroyed, just that it's destroyed; and incompetence will do just as well as malice.
Excellent point. This information will never be used to catch anyone or prevent anything from happening. It's already being used to frame up a case against someone who has already been targeted. Now, who knows why the selected victim has been targeted. Could be personal malice; could be the target has a cute girlfriend who snubbed the snitch; could be damn near anything. One of my ancestors was hanged for witchcraft because she was a cranky old lady with red hair, and she and her husband owned a piece of land between the main road and the estate of the richest people in the settlement, and they had refused to sell. Once she was good and dead and the rich family had taken the land (that being their reward for information leading to the conviction of a terrorist--I mean, witch); the Commonwealth of Massachusetts apologized and gave her heirs the land back.
Point being, they aren't looking through it in real time to catch villains. They're indexing it to add background to really nail somebody later, for whatever reason.
It's an elaborate scheme to collect data for blackmail purposes. People wonder why the government grows inexorably larger and more invasive regardless of who's in charge? This is why.
Information is power. The Deep State "owns" politicians, high-level bureaucrats, etc. because of what it knows about them. It's been that way for quite a while. This new leap in pervasive universal surveillance is a way to make sure absolutely everyone is "owned" so that pressure can be brought to bear on them if necessary.
If I were looking to construct a police state, this is exactly what I'd be doing.
It's me right? I'm that guy correct? You know the one you and your cohorts have been stalking since late August of last year. The guy who your hacker cohorts have data mined. I was already told I'm hitlisted. I'm also the guy who when he writes stuff on his computer it ends up being read by people on this site somehow, funny how that goes eh?
"It takes a human being with a will and an intellect to interpret and act on information" For now, yes.
Artificial intelligence, much more than an algo. It wont be humans doing the looking. At least that's what they are shooting for.
You might be surprised how effective multiple weak algorithms are when their results are tabulated. Of course, those with completely unique "signatures" won't show up as easily. You CAN find what you're looking for given enough data and processing power ... the questions are 1) should you be looking and 2) are you looking for the right thing?
So you're one of those "security at any cost" folks, huh? I imagine giving the authorities the right to conduct random, unannounced, warrantless searches of people's homes would scoop up a goodly number of bad guys, making you and your family much safer. I guess you'd be on board with that then?
In the aftermath of all this bullshit, people like him will also be known as my
A) breakfast
B) lunch
Or
C) dinner
You actually think the NSA spying makes you safer? LOL. They're using it for domestic law enforcement, meaning that it's more likely to cause you to come into contact with a cop. Did you know that in the past 40 or 50 years, cops in the US have killed 9x the people than all terrorist attacks on US soil combined?
As general morals decline, so do cops' as they are part of the population.
Some of the young guys really need mentoring, which I do when I have the chance.
Many here would really be surprised at the number of LEOs who actually want to serve and protect! In one group I am a member of, not one officer thinks Our Queen is legit. Now I and others are only a few people. We need more citizen involvement.
It is up to YOU the citizen, to call on your local agencies to put the brakes on paramilitary policing. All cops wig out over cool gear, I did back in the day, but it is Out of Hand!
"We know who and what you've been screwing. How would you like to pay--MasterCard, Visa or Room 101?"
How dare you have a different point of view!
I would just point out that none of this is legal. Clear 4th amendment violations safety or not. I know people in the "business" and they have told me they have stopped a lot. I know people who know other people in the business that I don't know and they here the same things. But I suspect what they are stopping is the lone wolf. Like the dumb ass who tried to by explosives and got entrapped by the FBI. There have been at least 4 such cases in the last few years, maybe more. But all this power will be used against you. It already is. It's just human nature. You or I would be susceptible to abusing it as well. I do agree that this was inevitable. I also believe the only way to turn this off would be if the sun decided to vomit on the planet frying every circuit around the globe. They will not relinquish this power willingly and if someone "took" it from them they would just be the new boss, same as the old boss.
BUT THE POINT IS THAT IT IS ILLEGAL, PERIOD! THEY DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO THIS AND 50,000,000 PEOPLE LIKE YOU DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO STRIP ME OF MY NATURAL RIGHTS TO GIVE YOU A FALSE SINCE OF SECURITY!
.
Statistically speaking, that puts you in greater danger than the ostensible "terrorism".
That's the crux of the biscuit right there isn't it?
You DO know there's a myriad of lists out there and I suspect you're on one yourself, collaborator.
I already read about this on Reddit, in multiple top 100 articles. Tyler, gotta do better than Reddit, brah. I may as well repost Reddit articles here to save you the trouble.
Anyone who is determined to be using Tor is targeted for long-term surveillance and retention by NSA(boingboing.net)
submitted 5 hours ago by Lawl078 to /r/worldnews
http://boingboing.net/2014/07/03/if-you-read-boing-boing-the-n.html
Repost more, OP. Classic Reddit Karma whoring. Article is currently 138 on Reddit.
To really be secure, use a self-booting CD of "Tails" on a WiFi capable laptop that you purchased anonymously (Flea-market, garage sale, thrift store, etc.). NEVER connect this to the Internet at home.
Remove the hard drive and battery and connect the charger to an in-car power adapter.
Now go to the parking lot of a free WiFi source (Staples, etc.) or near a non-secured residential WiFi source and boot up to the Tails CD.
Do your secure communications. Free email services are good places to store correspondence and documents that are not attributable to you since the laptop has no hard drive. Do NOT use USB drives. (True Crypt can also be used to hide documents if USB storage is required.)
If someone comes a snooping, pull the plug on the laptop and all will go bye-bye.
Since the laptop is not connected to you personally and you are not using the Internet at your home or office, you are less connected to your communications.
As for passwords, use really long ones with mixed uppercase, lowercase and symbols. Use an OBSCURE poem or literature reference as the base--a Shakespeare, bible or similar quote is not obscure.
An American citizen, not DC US subject.
You missed the basic element that the WiFi adapter MAC address does not change so your history can be tracked and the subsequent logon activity. If your going to drive around and logon eventually you will create a pattern to zero in on your house. Choose "to be or not to be" as your password.
System frequency from mains adapters only works for disconnected grids to identify the timestamp and can't determine location of a synchronised grid without GPS timing. You need microsecond timing to zero in on a location of a power grid. That said it would works over a relatively long period of time to find out which country your in.
What part of "Remove the hard drive and battery and connect the charger to an in-car power adapter." did you not understand with your mains adapters non-sequitur?
MAC addresses are not chiseled in stone.
WTF are you talking about with "System frequency from mains adapters only works for disconnected grids to identify the timestamp"?? Computer power goes through a AC/DC converter; the computer can't look at "mains" frequency; timekeeping runs on a crystal oscillator running on DC power with a lithum back-up battery you nitwit!
p.s. Uncle Remus, would it even matter if MAC addresses were sacrosanct on an anonymous computer (using public Wi-Fi)?
General rule of thumb - avoid consistancy. Forensics loves a pattern.
I understand that our"friends" in Israel get a cc from the NSA of all intercepts. It seems to me that is highly likely that at least some of the NSA stuff is forwarded officially or unofficially to Russian sources.
Tag and bait game, forward what you want to be leaked. It's not a full cc as this would be detremental to everyone.
Now just how will that "carbon copy" be "detrimental" to everyone? Since you know how this works, please continue...
Bait and switch. If Israel was getting copies of everything, they would not be in the top 3 outfits spying on uncle scam.
Those guys shafted us when they attacked the USS Liberty and killed our sailors, the fuckers.
DeGaulle once said, "France has no friends, only interests." That is the Israeli model, too.
"The German attorney Thomas Stadler, who specializes in IT law, commented: "The fact that a German citizen is specifically traced by the NSA, in my opinion, justifies the reasonable suspicion of the NSA carrying out secret service activities in Germany."
A big fat fucking no shit. NSA works in conjunction with German security. Merkel just has to do her two bit dime store bad acting....all butt hurt that her cell phone has been tapped.
They have to because Germany has things like a key satellite constellation for certain purposes, which the US does have some capability but the German data suplements the areas of interest to increase accuracy. All a stage show and a bit of injury to pride when they realise they are not trusted enough not to have their phones recorded.
Futureboom:Not quite sure why any of this is an issue, if it means that my family is not blown up by some nutter with a view that you can't have your own belief system and thoughts. With the evolution of technology this was an inevitability in the words of the Matrix and should be supported to a certain degree, however anything legal will always be abused within a system for political and other reasons. Personally I vote for the deep trawl and travel to work with a little more comfort.
Member, 3 days 10 hours.
Is 3 days and 10 hours supposed to mean anything in a conspiracy world ?
Hey, I think your elevator missed it's floor.
I like that, will have to remember that one for some meetings.
Apologists do not fare well here. I see much disdain for your musings in the future.
He said disdain.
Hes calling you a noob.
It is a good indicator of you being a TROLL.
So did you watch Fight Club?
If so...Fuck you.
If not...Fuck you.
isn't your office closed for the holiday?
go home, enjoy your travel and then a beer. have a BBQ with the folks you spy on.
thanks for your service
Dear NSA,
Your mothers wear army boots and your fathers fuck with their socks on!
MOAR DATA
Does anyone remember when that Asian student was using his university's computer to mine bitcoins? That was the first time I'd heard of 'Tor,' so I looked it up to find out what it was. I guess I'm under suspicion now. Go figure.
However, since I'm' also very much a non-techie, as long as I have you NSA guys on the line, would you mind removing the trojans from my computer? It crashes like every 20 minutes. This shit's fucking annoying. If you're going to spy on me, it's the least you could do.
Those thousands of disease infested illegal aliens crossing our borders are exempt though?
Divide and conquer at it's finest.
I've been killing gophers this week, and noticed their dis-satisfaction for strong odors. I promptly shoved a few pairs of worn Wookie stockings down their exits.
NSA has some of the ugliest power point presentations I have ever seen. Just do black on white, you assholes. Why all the goofy pictures and weird colors
so what do you expect from government workers? If they were good they would be working without security cover
I'd expect this? Doctors and Nurses Threatened w/Arrest for Revealing Contagious Illegal Alien Diseases | FrontPage Magazine
It is simple why they are targeting TOR users. TOR all nodes are technically endpoints the way it works. In order to create a parallel construction map of the network you need to basically infect every machine in the network with some sort of malware/spyware to watch the traffic moving through the machines related to TOR then reconstruct it in a seperate parallel network simulation.
If they were that good at breaking VPN/TOR etc networks they wouldn't be targeting the endpoints in the first fucking place if they could easily decode the data and directional flow in the middle.
The networks are more secure than people would like to give them credit for. But sloppy security on the endpoints is always the weak link.
The Well was pretty cool.
I think, therefore I am on their lists.
"See thinking, say something."
I will be disappointed if I am not on their list. That will only add insult to injury.
kcchric - almost did a spit take. You made my day.
If the Great Mesiah himself searches for articles with reference to Tor, that means He will be spied upon? I really do hope that there is a tiny if in the NSA code that eliminates the spying on President Obama.
the Snowden leak was designed to get people use to being spied upon, so that people would be afraid of speaking out. A classic technique used by the KGB,the Stasi, and the Gestapo
That is one of the reasons why I have taken steps to remove my anonymity online, on this site, by publishing my street address.
Wrong, Wrong, Wrong
The introductory paragraph says they watch those who don't know how to cover their tracks. Sorry dupes. If you download any app that says it will annonymize or encript, or even an article on how to avoid the NSA at any level, If you frequent Pirate Bay, If you do anything that indicates you have more than a rudimentary understanding of internet protocol, THESE are some of the checklist items THAT GET YOU ON THE WATCH LIST. Don't worry, there are hundreds of triggers. At least don't take the bait and present yourself to them with a ribbon and bow.
In the UK there is a web site that's been up for years with instructions on how to make a machine gun. Do you suppose there is a reason for that?
What is that URL on the Machine Gun instructions?
Here is how you can make a grenade...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH6GpXAXmx8
You can actually get this on an airplane.
Now, you see, I have nothing to lose. There is nothing that I want in life.
I certainly refuse to live in fear.
So fuck the NSA.
You can be a pusillanimous pissmeyer for all that I care.
I will give it to them in a bow tie.
I teach all of the homeless how to construct explosives. I tell them that a small charge placed between the Gas Meter of a Building and the Building will end up taking out the building by the consequential Natural Gas fed FIRE.
If they throw me in jail they will hand me an army. I also teach how to make poisons and poison gases. I teach them that they can salt produce bins in Grocery Stores.
Do you think that the NSA likes my response? It is not against any law to teach...NOT ONE LAW PROHIBITS TEACHING.
How is that for a "Bow Tie"? What have they got to lose?
Gotcha ears on, NSA?
Bring on the collapse.
So what is that URL for the Machine Gun?
Sorry Tom,
I will not transmit nor cause to transmit (they like that language) the web site for making a homemade sten gun using plumbing pipes, a drill press, and standard hardware capable of shooting 30 caliber bullets. Whatever you do, don't search it within youtube as its "push" programs and history retention goes into overtime presenting you with options to incrimminate yourself. Its all about your search patterns accumulating trigger data and floating ever up in the database becoming ever more visible.
As an experiment watch a few videos on the AK-47, then watch how many suggestions for more watching Youtube makes... incrimminate, incrimminate, incrimminate yourself!
Do not concern yourself about me "incriminating myself". I know how to play it to the edge.
At times people cross that edge. That is when I become concerned...about them.
(Now that I exposed my weakness...)
Here is a "Funny or Die" video about the NSA Wiretapping Public Service Announcement with Trevor Moore.
Enjoy...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4z09el30f8
There is in my state:
The funny thing is, I was wondering what a cop who went into a protest as an agent provocateur would be guilty of if he started a riot and stumbled upon this just a few days ago.
Well there is a way around that as they have to prove intent.
If I were to write or say, "This is how you do this..." then perhaps intent is easy to prove.
But when I say that, "This is how people can do this by doing this..." then it is as if I am giving a warning.
Thanks for the heads up and I will be more careful with my verbiage.
But how do the University Physical Sciences Departments, University Engineering Departments and War Colleges get away with it?
I agree Tom, as the law is written, they have to prove intent. If everything is honest (good luck with that, on both sides of the law,) intent will be next to impossible to prove. As it is written, it is a good law, i.e. as it is written, you will have to show that somebody knew that they intended to cause "civil unrest," (a riot,) and that they had a reasonable expectation that their actions would do so. How it gets enforced? Well, nothing has made it to the appellate courts in my state, so I have seen exactly zero examples of how it is enforced. Interestingly enough, it is called an "anti-terrorism" law, yet there are no "inciting a riot" laws that I have found. And the fact that it is called an "anti-terrorism law" pisses me the fuck off.
Turroriststs are bad. 'Merica good.
Well, what the fuck is a terrorist? And don't give me a moving fucking definition. Give me "A person who uses violence, or the threat of violence against a civilian population to achieve a religious, political or ideological goal."
Did I make that mistake? I'm the person so many on Zerohedge love to hate you know the dude who has his rants somehow published even though he is writing them supposedly on his own computer. Funny how that data finds its way to other places eh? Ya the dude paranoid about the NSA I know you know me even if you deny it how are my hacker friends doing today?
I believed in Snowden, too.
Until he basically indicated that 9/11 happened like 'they' said it did.
I don't slavishly adhere to an alternative theory, I'm not precisely sure what happened, but.... radar maps/jet fighters/silverstein/dancing israelis all aside...
physics, baby.
But - not going to litigate that here. By now, your mind is made up too.
But for me, Snowden is either lying, or some sort of patsy puppet if he is claiming the Official Narrative is what happened.
!#!$#! -don't you have to wonder if there are is any kind of 'resistance' or dissent in the ranks... or if, say the DIA, might spy on the NSA?
I wonder if they have cool gadgets. I'd probably lie for the government for some cool gadgets.
9/11 is the litmus test
9/11 destroys the whole narrative. It is the litmus test. Do you believe physics or not?
9/11 was simply too much.
It was a globally irreversible exposure of the élite's perversion in many aspects.
Irreversible.
The problem with collecting everything and storing it comes into play when someone who can access that data wants to use it to advance their own agenda. Need a couple votes to keep NSA funded? Check to see what the Congessmen 'on the fence' are up to. You or a family member wants a government job? Better have a clean NSA record. Need a security clearance? Same thing, and hope your kid didn't do a speech or term paper on Putin. Does ATF want your guns? Give them a path to your door so they know what to look for. Think that bugout location is secure? Not if you used your cell phone anywhere near it. Taking the family on a plane trip? How about a full cavity search by TSA because you went to the wrong Internet site. And don't just blame the NSA. Google and most online retailers are buying your profile or capturing it. How secure is their meta data?
Here's what the NSA cannot penetrate.Unless they're better than the U.S. military or the CIA which I doubt.https://www.route1.com/
Yes, the armed forces and secret services can easily have codes virtually unbreakable by no such agency.
Despite all the bellowing, every country needs good cryptography. Every country uses it. The only unbreakable unit is the one-time pad.
Other countries: nsa bad! We must lodge a protest (but do not look at our spy activities Why we, -insert country- never spy on anyone!).
The Germans are mad because the British always find a way to steal or break the German codes, haha.
When the NSA goes to hire the morons and imbeciles that comprise the NSA executive do they gage stupidity based on
a norm amongst NSA employees or do they gage based on how many paint chips they ate as children?
Inquiring minds want to know?
Up yours, NSA.
p.s. I just got a new computer, you assholes, and I asked my technician to give me my old hard-drive so I could take a hammer to it at home. I hope you kept copies cuz I might need to reference that material in the future. Thanks for the long term free data storage, SUCKERS.
OCCUPY EVERYTHING including fundamentalist Christians in the State of Utah.
Added commentary from security geeks:
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/07/nsa_targets_pri.html
Like dodgeball in the 6th grade. Hang back. Observe intentley. There's always that kid on the other side of the line, held back two years, slinging head shots with reckless abandon and unbridled hubris. Patience. Watch. Move accordingly.
If you don't want the NSA reading your thoughts, try handwriting on a piece of paper and hand delivering the message. You ever wonder why calligraphy is no longer taught in public education?
If you really think there is a way to send electronic communications without having them intercepted and reviewed you are sorely mistaken and need to come back to reality. Every single 1 and 0 flying through the air or transmitted over a public cable gets filtered through the Puzzle Palace.
could be a future in carrier pigeons!
Or coded smoke signals.
threema.ch end-to-end encrypts messages after you physically swap private keys with the other people.
Can't wait to instal it on my blackphone.ch that arrived yesterday....
See ya!
Bomb, militia, EMP, fascist, nuclear, airport, sarin, rifle, God, White House, crash, fucking american terrorist government. NSA suck me.
There, don't worry about me using TOR.
...
NSA...... tell us what you heard before, during and after....9/11/01, USS COLE, Boston marathon and BENGHAZI....
useless pieces of government shit........ voyeurs and jerkoffs only need apply
And tell me what Alexander earns 1 mil... blackmail perhaps.....
Be an open and honest 'shirtless jogger' speaking truthiness to local officials with no real power.
Dear NSA , if you think it might help with your decryption efforts in any way:
I think I might still have a Capt Marvel Decoder-Ring from my grade-school days - probably buried under my collection of Bazooka Joe wrappers up in the attic (which reminds me: I haven't fed Granny in a week... oops!)
Obviously wouldnt want it falling into the wrong hands, so p/m me at ZH to let me know where & when you can take delivery. (any time between 11:00pm - 4;00am EST within a 2-block radius of Suzie Wong's House Of Oriental Pleasure on 12th & W 43rd is fine by me)
tia.
Lets see, the people the NSAs code WILL pick up (what they call extremists):
Human Rights Activists
Whistle-blowers
Lawyers
Reporters
Anyone who banks in a civilized country
Industrial Research
Foreign Government contractors and advisors
So how many dissidents has John Kerry traded to the PLA to keep the USD propped up, and how many is he offering to el-Sisi to keep the Egyptian government from jumping into bed with the Russians?
// START_DEFINITION
/*
These variables define terms and websites relating to the TAILs (The Amnesic Incognito Live System) software program, a comsec mechanism advocated by extremists on extremist forums.
*/
$TAILS_terms=word('tails' or 'Amnesiac Incognito Live System') and word('linux' or ' USB ' or ' CD ' or 'secure desktop' or ' IRC ' or 'truecrypt' or ' tor '); $TAILS_websites=('tails.boum.org/') or ('linuxjournal.com/content/linux*');
// END_DEFINITION
(post went a meandering)
beat me 2 it! ....START DEFINITION These variables define terms and websites relating to the TAILS (The Amnesic Incognito Live System) software program, a comsec mechanism advocated by extremists on extremist forums. - Critical mass of targets use Tor. Scaring them away from Tor might be counterproductive. We can increase our success rate and provide more client IPs for individual Tor users. Will never get 100% but we don t need to provide true IPs for every target every time they useTor. - Analytics: Cookie Leakage Use cookies to identify Tor users when they are not using Tor * Current: preliminary analysis shows that some cookies 'survive" Tor use. Depends on how target is using Tor (Torbutton/Tor Browser Bundle clears out cookies). * Goal: test with cookies associated with CT targets - Idea: what if we seeded cookies to a target? - Investigate Evercookie persistence - Investigate the Amazon AWS cloud instances of Tor servers. How are IPs allocated and reassigned once bandwidth limit is reached? Impact on RONIN' s ability to detect nodes? -- Ponderings: Many of these leaks their "slide" form look like ms-paint+power point 101 jobs, GG, "snow-den", WaPo, NYT, Spegiel et. al. "Leak" these leex ~ The Most Appropriate (effective) Date, leaks are trickled out in "odd" quantity Excellent analysis/spec of anomalous drips by JYoung (crytomeme etc.), Who's behind the media outlets? WTF is up with that ridiculous robo-Snowden interview on TED™ Tawx? Same TED backed by Gates and the Eastern Est. Ivy-z, Snowden hits it big on PBS/NPR, Etc etc..., Follow the $- "comsec" industry is booming. The fear makes the money makes everyone SECond guess, Snowdenz past as presented by MSM and AMSM (alterna-MSM) is full of holes, non-sensical and most importantly never questioned by the sources. Imo, his speak-voice doesnt match up with the "super-hero/self-professed Masterspy"-ness lion status which is (mostly) accepted by everyone "as is". Also, Buff'd-dale was revealed by the Wired writer years ago along with the ATT SF boxes (Binney & his colleagues). A lot of the slide material was exposed before that by older, less Interesting fellows. What's up with GG and his corporate connections? Not implying "The Snowden Revelations" are a rooze, but the Revelatory nature of it-all feels "off", Go back and comb thru the Snowden-Putin interview, methinks Putin may know something contrary to status-Quo-Snowden narrative. Things we KNOW (not from Snowden): -"Sabu" WAS compromised by the electronic PTB, was blackmailed, turned into an informant and caused massive damage to "Anonymous" "Hacktivist" "group". -Paypal 14 WAS busted/targeted by "similar" means. -Barret Brown WAS swatted, in prison minus "constitutional perks", is awaiting sentencing...was (is?) faced 100+ years in the dump for re-tweeting (a fed threatened his mom, he expressed his feelings on the subject. That was the excuse (1st) given for his swat. -3ish years prior to Bundy-Ranch, the .gov had (leaked later, not Snowden) plans/schemaz to snipe/snuff certain I.E. thinking/dangerous ows leader-organizer types. so many more examples...during moo-barik death (late 2011-early 2012) "hacktivists" in Egypt were murdered, no proof they were targeted...but other anti-regime outspokens were targeted in many other G20s. point is, yes people have been nabbered up with NSA like spy "moves". They had 1 thing in common- they crossed the fed line+got a ahitload of ppl "unsheepy" real quick, which is why the occupy thingy was quashed with a quickness. How many 'Muricans know Chris Hedges/Naomi Klein (shock doctrine author) sued Barry+Co and WON for 2012 NDAA sec. 1021-X [I think that's correct, anyway that's the "detain any US Citizen...forever /w no trial/private mil-tribunal/murder" part] Immediately after O killed the ruling. Had another judge undo the do. Remember Scott Olsen? The "NATO" kids who were framed in Chicago? The infiltration by contractors posing as activists (provocateurs) busting out windows, being Thuggy... ...which the MSM doing their thing, washed Joe-Stupids' brain with... 1st MSM went with the "look at these idiots, dumb college kids with cellphones/bongos, get a job". No mention of the coordinated closing of BoA accounts across the country, bank blockades, just the same "dirty kidz, get a job" crapola. During this time the MSM which appeals to "righties" was deriding in this manner, the "lefty" MSM was silent until their assets were thouriughly mixed in with the crowd. Methinks after the 10s of thousands of ppl who shut down the ports in east-bay, TPTB started sweating...so 2nd: MSM changed from the dirty/bongo narrative to the violent-terrorist one. Around the Scott Olsen/Port shutdown time is when the contractors acting as black bloc idiots got "airtime". Well. Didn't work. The "occupy" in my geo-loc was pathetic and did resemble the bongo/confused college trope. Gov released/directed homeless and thug-life to the "occupy" area. The small group of protesters were beat-up and had their shit stolen. One pregnant woman was punched in the pouch=miscarriage. The authorities sat back, relaxed. BoA "close your account day" was announced b4 hand, so in my part-o-the woods, swat+carbine were guarding the bank doors. Whoops! I'm way off topic here, 1 more thing Being friend with both "bongos" and "tea-baggers", I saw tremendous opportunity to (try) get the "best" (or willing) people from both sides into some dialogue. At the core both "groups" have the common adversary; Banks and things Big-Brorwellian related. Strange Bedfellows, right? Mega fail. Put a lot of effort into it but no mas. No one would talk to the other. Fancy the idea? Not! Major downer. ...and of course, during Bundy Ranch, my lefty friends had their brains washed by the (same as ows) MSM footage edited/cut portraying the whole thing as a bunch of rayciss gun nutters. "What? You mean those no-IQ red-billy gun nuts??? (insert edited Bundy-sound bite with weasel words such as "colored", "do nothing". I forget which MSM "lefty" machine left out the "hard working/good families part. All and all at this point in time, from my POV the MSMs' 2a/Propagunda has worked as planned, being The Ultimate Divisive. Fullest retard. Now that I'm max o/t, A question: The Au/Ag "tell friends" thing is a hard sell. More difficult: Any suggestions/tips how to show/explain/present firearms to ppl who have never seen one IRL, except on a cop or on the "news"? wow, sorry for long post.@futureboom
I have a question..It is a simple one and I would like an answer.
What are you gonna do when SHTF ? Everybody knows there is going to be a collapse. It is unavoidable at this time.
After that there is going to be a lot of people really pissed off. Maybe running around with guillotines or more realistically with loaded guns and targeting everybody who they perceive responsible.
Low level government (or private) employees are going to be first targets. Higher ups have contingency plans and I assure you, you are not on the list. Yes, there is a list for that also.
Will you have something to offer to save your head ?
Think about it..first ones who start to talk will get the deal. late arrives...I do not think so.
The question you should ask yourself is...what do you have to offer ?
NSA, still waiting on my lost password. What phrases do I have to use to move that request into the correct bucket?
"And this, General, is our political spying section."
"Men, you are making a great sacrifice for your country. How are you doing, soldier?"
"Sir, I feel....dirty."
"Keeping tabs on politicians is the worst job we do here, son. That's why we installed showers right otside this vault!"
"This is the Bath House section, sir. You know who they are keeping tabs on."
"Make sure they get rotated every Two hours, COL. And more hand sanitizer. A dispenser for each cubicle!"
"Yessir!"
US citizens need to grow some balls.
Doesn't take expertise to make this happen - just a $49 check. If enough do it the public becomes unstoppable. Especially after parents refuse to let their kids play with the kids of NSA creeps.
DEMAND THAT YOUR CONGRESSMAN SET UP A RELAY IN EACH OF HIS OFFICES. THAT SHOULD BE A LITMUS TEST FOR REELECTION!
https://www.eff.org/torchallenge/
http://www.technologyreview.com/news/521676/online-anonymity-in-a-box-fo...
https://pogoplug.com/safeplug
Meanwhile, encourage your representatives to sunset these butt sniffers completely.
if you have any kind of above average intelligence with critical thinking capability you're a threat. Expect the nsa to probe your anus repeatedly it's just a fact.
Me and My Bad Luck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK_HOiqT9R8
indeed stalked by hackers since last August found even when I buy a new comp have anything I type even on my own comp somehow read by people on this site. Yep it's me that guy you know the one people leave messages for all the time.
Have you ever made a joke? Have you ever farted in the presence of a woman? Have you ever looked away from Obama's eyes of hope?
If so, you're probably an extremist. And we can help. Welcome to the NSA, I love you.
I'm sure the NSA spys on me, I got a visit from 2 secret service agents last week, they had a problem with a complaint email I sent to Sheriff Arpaios office.
I took their 57 minutes they used to query me to demoralize those 2 bright young patriotic agents, it was in the morning so they had to think about everything I said all day long.
Spying on citizens is dangerous to the state's monitors, demoralizing, facts are hard to ignore when pointed out, they rot, reality is hard to refute.
It was the rot that killed the Soviet Union, not Reagan, Reagan was a tool.
hmm but in the end they were paid nicely for listening to you, and you were paid?
Until the NSA/DHS can prove a positive taxpayer investment return by preventing a future terrorist attack, Fuck them! We will continue to do their job and eventually have them defunded.
Can you hear me now, NSA fuckwits?
FYI| Helpful tips
http://acidpulse.us/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9965&sid=3e6db6fccd87a29e03b7d7584a1eddec&start=100
I think everyone should have a picture of a LOLCAT sitting in an archive that's got 38 layers of encryption on it.
Make em work for it...and make it really disappointing in the end.
I don't hide. What's the point? They know I think the government is almost fully corporate owned, the current admin - like all admins this past 100 years or so - sucks and those truly in control are trying to destroy America. We used to be representative of all that was decent and good for the most part....yes we have some shitty points in our history too. Fuck you NSA...
It's a secret .....
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~//~
'Potential Extremists': Merely going to Tor's website will land you on NSA's red list
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvjdxtS2BmU (2:45)
I went to the web site, downloaded it and to piss NSA off, used it.
Now I am getting out of windows and going Linux, but not the Ubuntu versions as I here they are in the same cozy relationship with .gov as Microsoft is.
We need new secure operating systems.
comment removed by NSA
pending review by DHS....
Pendinf review by FBI. Yep I'm sure you and your buddies know since you keep illegally accessing my system. You and your cohorts also repost anything I type supposed on the privacy of my own system. I wonder knowing I had an audience your hacker buddies I posted random nonsense. Lets see what the bigger crime is eh? Yes it's me the guy you and your friends have been stalking and harassing since last August. How are you friend?
I find it truly amazing that anyone would believe this ... and that the IRS could lose two years of email for six employees ... NSA, if you're listening to me now, WHERE IS YOUR MORAL COMPASS POINTING? And what do you teach your children about lying?
This goat is looking for another pasture to graze in. The sheep stink over here.
(double post deleted)
hitler's ghost lives in a louisiana woman today:
http://blogdredd.blogspot.de/2014/06/agnotology-surge-9.html
Forget the NSA. It is a paranoid drug addict. It will always watch the wrong thing. While they were watching outward Snowden was tapping in from the office. NSA employees will eventually be fighting in the headquarter hallways. Their Pirate ship is sinking and they know it. They are already threatening eachother.
Well, they are desperate to come up with some way to reduce the number of people they need to pretend to follow. There are millions of people saying millions of things; the NSA's little pea brains are going to explode!!! They don't even know how to read that data, let alone collate it and turn it into something!!! What to do??? What to say to higher-ups who ask them how they can sort through all of that stuff and even use it? Well, this is a technique they can point to. See, we only watch the really smart, tech savvy people; that's the ticket!!!
However, the way humans minds work, and the way humans don't actually work (but instead, if at all possible, sit around gabbing and eating junky food), each NSA employee is probably capable of following about one person. Barely.
I once worked for a summer in a government office. I had previously worked in the same field in the private sector. I actually kind of liked the government workers, but their level of competence was essentially nonexistent. The interns whom I knew in the private sector, were better trained, skilled and more capable than the high level people in the government sector. And this was a field that was not as complicated as tech.
You know, the more I think about it, the more I think the NSA can do very little, unless they simply hire the private sector to do it. And how secret will that stay?
I'm amazed there's no appid/fingerprint definition for ZeroHedge.com with special flag for the words "boating accident"
Screw the NSA. I've decided I am more concerned about all the info floating around out there, period.
They say our TV signals are reaching far enough to be picked up, like they're seeing I Love Lucy now, whatever...
Wait till they get hold of the crap we're putting out there now...it wouldn't surprise me in the least if our closest galactic neighbors formed a posse and came after us.
I read a short story years ago about an alien race that became very offended at the space plaque we sent out featuring the unclothed male and female human forms...accused us of sending pornography to the Universe...
I was a signals officer as a kid. Our mantra was to always assume one was being intercepted all the time. Whatever you write or say, assume else is reading it, listening to it, etc. Be as very careful and cautious as you can. You can't really do more.
We all know the intent is to keep normal people from speaking out about lawlessness and corruption in high places through intimidation and fear. We have known the Government was watching TOR for years. Surprise. And we always expect that anonymizers are actually government shell corps. It just makes since. However, there are still good reasons to prevent hackers from having easy access to data. I can see where executives might use hidden forms of communications. The fact is and has always been nobody likes peeping Toms. If you lock your door you must be guilty of something. Why would you want to do that?
Always keep a secret stash of pooh porn only the NSA can access.
I never had a secret stash of pooh porn. If you mean lesiban porn why yes but as far as I know that is not illegal. Are you another one of my fans. I have a stalking fan club you see full of hackers and people who like to watch.
And they deep probed every commentor on ZH for sure
NSA's intention here was to separate the sheep from the goats -- to split the entire population of the Internet into "people who have the technical know-how to be private" and "people who don't" and then capture all the communications from the first group.
hmm. it sure is nice to be special!
the human mind seems to naturally grasp dichotomies. yin and yang, etc.
think about how it's in our language as in "seeing it in black and white," etc. saying you're either for us or against us. you're either a patriot or a traitor. and either smart or stupid. simple minds need to divide things in twos.
the only three in common usage that's obvious is the Catholic holy trinity.
if you dichotomize a dichotomy you have four different categories ... Carl Jung liked to do that in his typologies of the mind.
but the number five is basic to Chinese medicine: earth, air, wind, water, and fire. Five is more common the East than in the West.
the I Ching has six doublets (yin/yang dichotomies), or 2 ** 6 = 64 hexagrams.
and then there's the 12 of of astrology, as in 12 hours and 12 houses, and the Chinese 12-year cycle Year of the XXX.
so now you can see why the "NSA" supposedly does one thing for one class of people and it doesn't do that thing for everyone else.
Martin Buber's I and Thou and the Torah-based chauvinism of Jews as the "Chosen" people where all non-Jews are goys .... which created things like shabbos goy. very similar to the Jim Crow system where a person is considered white if they have no apparent signs of "Negro" heritage or speech pattern or other learned social behaviors.
i should go to sleep because it's 2 in the morning. phone company put in fiber to the pole last month which screwed up my internet access for all of June and so in calling "tech support" for fixing my noisy line i ask if they can raise the DSL speed level it's now twenty times faster than before, and all it took was two full days of hassles on the phone and a phone guy from hell etc. plus obsessively disk-and system checking in preparing for the really-simple "drive transplant" making multiple backups, ending up swapping out a spinning hard drive for an SSD ... and the only problem so far is a frozen RSS and it's now sucking down torrents at almost 1000 kbps without slowing down web browsing. so my computer used to be slow and now it's ... not. YAY!
There should be a national self-immolation day. Might be something new under the sun, you just never know, you know.
The French came up with the idea to sever people's heads more humanely by using a device that had plenty of oomph when used. It had a good sized blade on the thing and was used all around the world, a very handy tool if you are going to sever the head of a human without an executioner's own hand, just pull the cord and the rest is easy. Bodies can pile up fast and the executioner's arms won't get tired. Hanging manages to do about the same thing, but the head chopping business won the contract, so that's what was done.
French sociologists studied those severed heads and timed how long the head remained sentient after being chopped off. A very efficient method of removing the head from the body, you won't go wrong, it will work each and every time. It works 100 percent of the time.
The mechanical device was used rather extensively in France and there are movies depicting what it could have possibly been like during those tumultous times.
It really was madness non-pareil.
That's why there is people like Christine Legarde.
Other humans were taken aback of what took place in France in 1792 or so.
Plato's daughter was married to Alexander the Great. Somehow, Alex pissed off Plato and it is believed that Plato had a hand in the assassination of Alex.
That's the way it goes moving west.
Have a pleasant Independence Day.
I guess I am a NSA target too. Well best target is privacy!!!
For the ppl who like privacy: https://tails.boum.org/index.en.html & https://guardianproject.info/
I know I am targeted, ever since I started posting that the 2nd Amendment is legal justification to overthrow the government using force.
Subtle for a news flash to the grazers.
Since family, friends, neighbors, associations and businesses are all now targeted pre-terrorists...
Perhaps the next true patriot will leak the payroll.
If everyone searches for Tor, then everyone is suspect and data overload results. So ambiguous posts should increase the workload. Start posting to facebook comments such as "Has your computer been infected by Tor?" or "Does Tor improve internet speed?" or whatever. More noise for the system.