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Pro-Russian Rebels Flee Slavyansk After "Massive Shelling", Demand Putin's Help To Avoid "Genocide"
Pro-Russian separatist forces have been forced to retreat from their stronghold in Slavyansk following "massive shelling" in the early morning from Ukraine's 'anti-terrorist' forces. Armored vehicles entered the city and the rebels, according to RT, decided to move back to their headquarters in Kramatorsk to 'prepare' in advance for further offensives. Just days after the cease-fire was lifted, newly-appointed Defense Minister Valery Heletey commented the "order to free Slaviansk from the (separatist) fighters has been carried out," but pro-Russian supporters are not done yet and exclaimed: "Pass on these words to Putin: the people of the Donbass believed him for some reason when he said he would help. But now they (government forces) are killing peaceful civilians and if that is not genocide I would like to know what is."
Government forces recaptured a flashpoint area of eastern Ukraine from pro-Russian rebels on Saturday, and Ukraine said its blue and yellow flag was flying again over what had been the separatist redoubt of Slaviansk.
A Reuters reporter saw a convoy of about 20 military transport vehicles and buses filled with armed rebels driving out of Kramatorsk where they had gone after apparently earlier fleeing Slaviansk 20 km (12 miles) to the north.
"Your order to free Slaviansk from the (separatist) fighters has been carried out," newly-appointed Defense Minister Valery Heletey was quoted by the presidential website as telling Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko.
IMAGE: #Ukraine flag raised in #Slavyansk after Donetsk militia left city for #Kramatorsk http://t.co/LjN3OMfqpm pic.twitter.com/TANPVjsUXl
— RT (@RT_com) July 5, 2014
"A significant number of militants have left Slaviansk ... along the way, our battle groups are greeting them. They are suffering losses and surrendering," he said in a statement on his Facebook page.
As RT reports, according to Channel One’s information “there was massive shelling” and then armored vehicles entered Slavyansk and street fighting began. That’s when the self-defense forces took the decision to leave the city, the channel said.
“Despite the massive shooting, the fighters stormed out of the city and headed for neighboring Kramatorsk. Part of their hardware was shot down in the process,” the channel said.
Prime Minister of the Donetsk People’s Republic, Aleksandr Boroday, explained...
“Our troops have consolidated at the reserve lines of defense, in an organized way and having kept their weaponry. We were prepared for this option, as we have to face tens of thousands of Kiev's military men and hundreds of armored weaponry units – which means almost all the battle-ready Ukrainian army,” Boroday said.
"Taking into account the ‘scorched earth’ tactics employed by Kiev's punitive forces, and the strategy of genocide toward the Donbass population, we declare that every hour of military action claims civilians’ lives,” Boroday said.
This followed impassioned pleas for help late last week...
Igor Strelkov, a Muscovite appointed as defense minister of the self-declared Donetsk People's Republic, said without Moscow's aid the region the rebels lay claim to, known as Novorossiya (New Russia), would fall to Kiev's forces.
"Slaviansk will fall earlier than the rest," he wrote on a rebel website.
...
"Pass on these words to (Russian President Vladimir) Putin: the people of the Donbass believed him for some reason when he said he would help. But now they (government forces) are killing peaceful civilians and if that is not genocide I would like to know what is.
"The (rebel) fighters are without shoes and don't have anything to fight with."
So far the only actions taken by Russia are to stop selling arms to Ukraine...
The Russian Foreign Ministry announced Saturday that Moscow is halting the process of delivering weapons, Ukrainian military forces' equipment and funds from the territory of Crimea to Kiev authorities due to their military actions in the east, which have resulted in the “deaths of civilians, including children, and civilian infrastructure in Donetsk and Lugansk regions being destroyed.
“The decision will be valid until a full ceasefire in the east of Ukraine by the country’s military and until a peaceful solution is reached,” Russia’s Foreign Ministry said.
* * *
As the tensions shift from blood in the streets to energy-wars centred around Austria, Bulgaria, the South Stream, new 'targeted' sanctions, and a potential German-Russia alliance, one wonders just how long before Putin must act.
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http://english.pravda.ru/world/americas/04-07-2014/127965-message_slavya...
this guy begged for help....
No Putin worship? I thought he had won the whole world.
this is about the 4th inning of the game, and Obama's limp-wristed pitching arm is already getting worn out...
I agree, theres more to come yet and it will be something none of us thought of.
Christ will arrive and eventually destroy the CUNT Jews push for World Order. Your comedians SUCK. Your women are uglier than Greek women. Fuck you Jew Bastard Cunts.... and kiss my ass on this 4th of July.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNqyJ9nUyBw
"Lets wait for the blackout...."
Don't you ask me to come out
When the sun does shine
Let us stay here with curtains drawn
In darkness you'll be mine
Let's wait for the blackout
The light is too bright
Let's wait for the blackout
Wait for the night
Well welcome to my basement flat
No windows to see through
With darkness closing in my friend
We'll both know what to do
Let's wait for the blackout
The light is too bright
Let's wait for the blackout
Wait for the night
Come lay with me upon the earth
That keeps us both alive
No living thing has lasted here
Yet we shall both survive
Let's wait for the blackout
The light is too bright
Let's wait for the blackout
Wait for the night
In darkness there is no sin
Light only brings the fear
Nothing to corrupt the eyes
There is no vision here
At first you may find it strange
But do not go away
The darkness holds a power
That you won't find in the day
There is no vision here
There is no vision here
Look at these little Jew Puss kids, who cannot SKI to save their lives, you little faggot homosexuals...good luck.
Kill a computer...kill a Jew..same same... When the DOLLAR collapses, I am shootin at JEWS
Your words and thoughts are interesting because from a historical standpoint that is exactly what happened in the Baltic Republics where Jews were involved in and controlling the blackmarket operations within those countries. At the first opportunity the indigenous population turned against them. This has been the case in other countries also, even in Spain when the Jews profited at the expense of the locals under the Arabs. As we have seen on the news many people get killed over even paltry amounts of money if the other person feels they have been slighted in a transactions.
I have noticed that recently TB posts has taken a more radical point of view in direct connection with the events in the Ukraine where the hands of certain actors have shown themselves. He is obviously angry at innocent people getting killed for the sake of someones offshore accounts as a country is being plundered. History all too often repeats itself and people on 'both' sides repeatedly make the same mistakes.
I think Tahoe Billy needs to be banned for that kind of language but yet he has not over the course of many such similar posts. Why is that the case Tyler, is he one of your buddies that has immunity ?????????
Wait for the blackout...
American's dipshit Ukraine is quite happy to destroy its eastern provinces, if it means goading Putin into invading, and alienating himself from the West he's been getting cozy with.
them are dumb fucking shits, Pull the plug when they need your help. Little dumshits will need a plug, help them out, dont make it hurt.
I'm from the Baltics and your post is just pure nonsense. For example jews consider Estonians a friendly nation. There are all sorts of memorials for jews and jewish/estonian relations. So quit talking shit!
In 1936, the British-based Jewish newspaper The Jewish Chronicle reported after a visit to Tallinn by one of its journalists:
Really now yeah whatever keep lying you POS
http://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/holocaust/about/04/baltic.asp
....Before World War II, 4,550 Jews lived in Estonia, the smallest of the Baltic States, about half in the capital city of Talinn. The Soviet Union occupied Estonia in 1940 as a result of the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact. The Germans conquered Estonia in July 1941 and many Jews fled to the Soviet Union. Those who did not manage to escape were placed under a harsh regime of restrictions: they were forced to don the yellow star and were stripped of their possessions. With the arrival of the Einsatzgruppen units the destruction of Estonian Jewry began. Local right-wing militias assisted in the murder of the Jews. By October 1941 most of the Jewish males above the age of 16 had already been murdered. It was reported at the Wannsee Conference (January 1942) that Estonia had been successfully rendered “judenfrei”, free of Jews.
Really the Soviets hated the Jews yet the jews ran to them to join them in their fight against the predominantly nazi leaning Baltics. Tell me more if I dont know nothing. Maybe yadvashem knows nothing also...
I guess the Jews did not know their neighbors that well in '36. Glad I dont have you as my neighbor
Yeah like you had a choice. FREE ESTONIA has NEVER persecuted jews in any shape of form. It was a kill or be killed situation. We did not invite the Russians here and neither did we invite the germans. You really think the locals had a say in the matter ? If they had they would of told both parties to GTFO back to their own country. This was not our fight, we we're forced into it. The only reason we welcomed the Nazis was because the Soviets we're so horrible. We soon found out that it was just same shit on a different day. Although the Nazis we're bit more cultured than the flea infested cavemen from the east.
Again..FREE ESTONIA has NEVER persecuted Jews. You can no judge us for the acts of foreign rulers. Keep in mind tens of thousands of Estonians we're sent to Soviet death camps. We were a bit more worrid about the survival of our own nation at the time. Our future was much less certain than the future of the Jews. If Russias attempted genocide would have succeeded I would not be here to tell this story.
If Stalin did to the Estonians what Hitler promised to do to the Russians you would have all been gassed to death a year after the end of ww2...goes to show you that there was no planned genocide just regular poor communist policies.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there a parade in the baltics every year commemorating the nazis? I think its called the Latvian legion day....So pro Jewish or anti Jewish you still have nazi parades happen every year....
Any chance the Jews in Estonia were a tiny minority with wildly disproportionate wealth and power, and any chance they collaborated with the Bolsheviks because the Bolsheviks, until some time after Stalin's purges were heavily, perhaps even mostly Jewish?
I'm asking, not being coy. Because based on what happened in other countries, I'd guess that the above is roughly what happened, which would explain, if not justifiy, the ethnic Estonians siding with the Nazis, just as the Ukrainians did.
By the way, to this day most of Ukraine's millionaires are Jewish and they own a large part of the media.
They are less than 1% of the population.
Lots of Protestant dudes cannot take crimes being committed by their own ilk, i.e, WASP scum, so they blame it all on the Jews, the Freemasons (wait, that would be WASP garbage too), the Illuminati, Grey Aliens, you name it as long as it's not them. They should check themselves, though: as there's nothing they love more than hating, it should tell them who's really the root cause of the problem, which of course, is none other than themselves.
Jewish troll.
Me thinks you are quite correct JR. In much older posts TB has a very conservative Christian and pro Zionist point of view. Now he is a hand puppet of a different sort. Rather comical situation. Trying to instill hatred for what other purpose Billy???
Billy dont hate...he survives as s Christ is Lord. American Jewss will perish, not as I seek, but as thy slander my Father their souls shall rest.
Billy you are truly offensive as a Jewish Troll, insulting Christian values and painting Christians as anti semites only shows that it is you who are Anti-Gentile. Careful where you trott with your hatred.
Billy's drunk.
Not enough excuse.
Fuck Jesus Christ
Fuck the books of LIES, The Torah, The New Testament, the Koran and all those who use the teachings of these books to kill and steal from their fellow man.
Right on! Cosmos.
But how do you get 5 up and I'm 5 down? I'm very tired of the hypocrits who call themselves christian.
Maybe his account was hacked and now some OFA stooge is using it to smear the rest of us.
PS - I liked the other picture better. This one has too many bright colors for my poor eyes.
Both very pretty girls, this girl is Belarus and is quite a 'Bella Rus' LOL, the first one is Ukrainian. From what I see both these girls make pretty good money on video chat. That is another way foreign hard currency gets into this country.
Tahoe, I sense that you're holding back. Quit beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel about the Jews.
Jewish troll.
Barry isn't the pitcher, and limp-wristed isn't a term I would to describe the neo-Imperialists' strategists and executioners. They've set a simple heads-I-win, tails-you-lose gambit, and regardless of the response (which actually is fairly certain on a long enough timeline), the PEOPLE of Ukraine will be losers, regardless of their mother tongue.
The strategic question is whether the Kremlin's planners craft a response that avoids the lose-little/lose-big opening traps that have been laid (on something less than a long enough timeline).
Of course while the made-for-muppet-TV domestic Ukraine game is going on, there is also the big enchilada match, where the entire nation of Ukraine (people, oligarchs, industry & resources) is merely a sacrificial pawn and where the prize is American hegemony, and which somewhat hinges on whether the EU contributes to an imbalance (since it and its serfs is also a part of the winner's prize package)...
Also depends on there being an EU, hence why the stinking cadaver has been kept staggering along by the servants of GS & co.
The 7th inning stretch is where he'll be worrying about his limp appendage.
I do have something in mind. Reming you we are playing chess and not golf
I am shocked, shocked that our Nobel Prize Winner is unwilling to help them. At least, Nuland can bake them some cookies.
Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative journalist Seymour Hersh has published an article demonstrating that the US government and President Barack Obama knowingly lied when they claimed that the Syrian government had carried out a sarin gas attack on insurgent-held areas last August.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/12/10/pers-d10.html
>>>the US government and President Barack Obama knowingly lied
Say it ain't so! Bitter humour aside, when it comes to "information" released by the US Government, or its President (D or R), said information must be considered a deliberate falsehood, until proven otherwise.
Hey USA where is the NO-FLY zone to keep the civilians safe???? Where are the limited NATO strikes for the defense of the civilians?????
Look Putin has very limited options, he is doing what he can by providing volunteers and self defense aid. He has the 800lb gorilla breathing down his neck waiting to start something.
This is but a battle in a much larger war to starve the NATO monster of its financing, ie dollar hegemony. There will be battles lost, do not forget that other battles are slowly being won across the world as people switch currency to trading with their own currencies. IF you can't stop the big war machine directly you try to starve it of its financing. That is the only way to win this game.
The Kiev government has brought in the entire army because they have to finish the resistance before fall. The coming winter is going to bring a severe depression to Ukraine. By then the soldier's families will be without heat and unemployed. The junta government has signed the EU austerity package and Russia has stopped much trade and dealing with Kiev. Russia is where Ukraine exports go, that market is going away. Hundreds of thousands of jobs with it. With gas at market rates millions will not be able to pay. With gas shut off, millions will go cold. Kiev has no economy and loans are all they can get to stay alive.
Whatever Putin's strategy, it is long term. This war is short term, that may me Putin will allow destruction of the resistance in order to please the EU and Washington. His long term belief is Ukraine will collapse and the junta will be victim of another revolution of the starving masses. If so, then long term Russia has a strong hand, short term the people of East Ukraine are royally Fucked! Political pressure form society is leaning towards anger and disgust that Russian government will let tens of thousands die as Kiev brings it's forces to conquer the East. Without military aid, the rebels will not last till September.
I hope I'm around long enough to tune in to the NulandBerg War Crime Trials.
You and I both will have to live a very long time (couple hundred years?) before we will see that.
The fact is...hard as it is for me to say this...but "killing Russians is cool." This whole Crimea thing made Putin "The Invader" and now the more Ukraine "skorches the earth" the more their moral authority grows.
I think the idea of a Russian/German alliance is laughable. Don't know if Putin is in a fight for his life...YET...but this only gets worse for Russia as time goes by. The whole "south stream" mularkey is really ridiculous. Europe WANTS Russian natural gas...but it does not NEED Russian natural gas. Putin will pay premium pricing to have that gas shipped through Austria "and then he's got another adversary on his hands."
You'll know if there's a problem if a multitude of foreign Navies start calling the Baltic and Black Sea their home to start "rolling back the menace."
Goes without saying the US Navy's got point on this too.
.
Riiiiiiight.... been off to the Magic Kingdom again?
I hear the military was loaded with drugs in the late 60's early 70's. The vet may have served his time then.
@DisabledVet: Your entire post is pitiful. Is this really the best your own mind can produce, like some brainwashed hick from the sticks, or are you paid in US Dollars to leave these poor droppings, like a sad attempt at disinformation?
Pathetic old cold warrior stuff. Straight from the 70's cold war and anger over losing Vietnam. His insight into 21st century political and economic reality in Ukraine and Russia and the EU is zero. Terrible comments and transparently cold warrior time warp stuff. The vet must be in his 60's.
If you think killing any nationality is "cool" I suggest you get your head checked... I guess we can call it Ukraine fever. "the more Ukraine "skorches the earth" the more their moral authority grows." the more the EU will have to pay to rebuild it? Seems like a great plan why not just wipe out your industrial base and radicalize even more people meanwhile facing a winter without gas supplies and people losing their jobs. "I think the idea of a Russian/German alliance is laughable."....keep laughing...the fact is the EU and the US are competitors...the EU and Russia...not so much. "The whole "south stream" mularkey is really ridiculous.' I agree with you here it is ridiculous...if you don't need the gas don't buy the gas...why would you stop the building of a pipeline unless you know that it's not in your interest...and lets see who would be very interested in not seeing this pipline built...the US working through a dubiously appointed EU commission and their "eastern european allies"....BJ givers according to Sikorski. "and then he's got another adversary on his hands." I am not sure who this adversary is, but if it's US lng I think that is just laughable.
Yeah Jack, that is so cheap that the masses in the east will be slaughtered....for what?? I don't get it? If Russia doesn't assist they will lose all credibility.
Really? I think you have it wrong, the West is losing credibility as it plays right into Putin's trap. Ukraine will be the final nail in the dollar coffing, mark my words.
I am not sure you are right....Putin is forced to play a very dangerous game...he knows that if he invades the EU popular opinion could swing against him(as you know this is all about the anti petrodollar alliance...and you need hearts and minds for it to happen). This will force the EU leaders to implement sanctions which will sever all ties and force Europe to forget about buying oil for Euros from Russia and thus be reliant on the petrodollar for a long time and their economy will probably take a very serious hit due to a huge spike in energy prices and loss of jobs that used to manufacture stuff that was exported to Russia. Russia would also take a serious blow from financing the war as well as decreased exports. In my opinion it will not be as severe as people think since energy prices inside Russia would fall and without imports there would be a spike in manufacturing, but it would get worse before it got better and the success would depend on people adopting the seiged fortress mentality that the Russians actually do have a tendency to adopt. If he does not invade the could lose the hearts and minds back home....after that the fortress could be seiged from inside...so far it seems he thinks he can take the fall in approval levels short term if he can deliver a victory in the long term.
Your thinking seems to be on point. I once worked for a healthy, growing company where a psychopath took charge. Within about 5 years, the organization was completely wrecked. Psychopaths are control freaks: paranoiac, manipulative, unable to delegate, unable to make decisions themselves in a rational, conscientious, proactive manner. Nazis are psychopaths. Fabians are psychopaths. Fascists are psychopaths. Technocrats are psychopaths. Whatever they touch, they destroy, because they are the essence of evil and want to remake society in their own twisted image. We all lose when psychopaths get power. The outcome is already written. Ukraine is going to be destroyed; Europe is going to be destroyed; America is going to be destroyed; and all the typical pychopathic blame projection and rationalization and propaganda in the universe is not going to change that. It's just a matter of time. Putin doesn't need to do anything, because he knows how terrible things will become. Ordo ab chao. Putin's best strategy is to stand back and give the masses time to realize how horrible things are about to become, and then they will rally behind him. The longer this drags out, the more terrible will be the cost. I would not want to be Ukrainian right now for anything. They're SCREWED.
Jack Burton said:
I saw an interesting article today which makes the claim that Kiev's scorched earth Donbass policy is related to a 2013 deal between the Ukrainian government and Royal Dutch Shell:
I guess blasting entire towns to smithereens is easier than convincing the residents to sell all their property and leave. Likewise, it's probably far more difficult, complicated, and expensive to relocate an entire town's population than it is simply to exterminate those who can't flee for their lives.
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2014/07/06/donbass-russians-subjec...
Those oil majors better be careful, one day they are doing the blasting via proxy the next day they may get blasted.
History doesn't repeat but it does rhyme.
Interesting background here just not enough on the Nobel Piece Prize and its history in the Russian oil industry nor on the shadowy hand of Rothschild tho it is mentioned
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioazMpe1SHE#t=3105
Curious milestone: 7 weeks after Churchill essentially nationalizes British Persian Oil (the nascent BP Petroleum) to supply the British Admiralty at the expense of the the Rothschild backed Shell, WWI breaks out...
Thanks stooge, good stuff there!
>>>short term the people of East Ukraine are royally Fucked!
To an extent, the Donbas leadership fucked themselves... by ignoring Putin when he urged them NOT to conduct a referendum on independence.
The Crimean example made the political transition out of Ukraine look easy, but Donbas, obviously and in multiple different ways, is not Crimea.
East Ukrain's counterstrike will go all the way to Kiev, it will be like Vietnam 3, after Iraq. They have the population to pull it off, just need time to radicalize the population, that's what Putin is waiting for.
.
Well, yes, to some extent that is correct. I don't disagree with conducting a referendum on independence. They would have been in a much more advantageous position, though, if they'd have waited to bring up the idea until the imminent collapse of the national economy and the unraveling of the Kyiv Yatzi Junta.
For one thing, it would have given them the better part of a year to prepare for impending events.
Second, even though news organizations in and around Kyiv must, under threat of violence, report only the official Yatzi version of all events, foreign reporters operating east of the Dneipr would be able to work with less difficulties and dangers than is currently the case. This would have made the Yatzi mission of ethnical cleansing more difficult. When there are "terrorists" to fight, it's easier to threaten, expel, and kill reporters, and the "terrorists" become the scapegoat for Yatzi war crimes.
Third, as the Ukrainian economy withers and dies, more people will grow to resent the Yatzis and Banderatards. This includes the Ukrainian military and local/regional law enforcement. The idea of a more federalized government, which is what the "separatists" wanted, will gain more support.
The biggest advantage of waiting, though, is that when the national economy collapses, the Kyiv Yatzi Junta will have to deal with demonstrations, violence, and revolts across the entire Ukrainian territory. They won't be able to concentrate their military and Banderatard Sektor goons in the Donbass.
Of course, when events are moving quickly and tensions are running high, it is far easier to yield to emotional impulses than to keep a clear head and make plans for the long term.
Well from military standpoint of view the similar strategy is applied as Kutuzov used, abandon some of your territory, for a favorable position.
Not to mention the local population is really pissed because the ethnicall cleansing, so the the freaks in Kiev will face not just the regular armed forces but guerrillas too.
And if we add to the mix the broken gov. and nonexistent economy, this whole thing will end in 2-3 months, maybe sooner. Especially bad for the junta.
"This war is short term, that may me Putin will allow destruction of the resistance in order to please the EU and Washington."
Putin is not trying to please anyone. Can't you see that the American neocons are trying every provocation they can to get him to start a war? If today, they go to Congress to require a declaration of war against Russia, they'll be turned down. So, their only hope is to push Putin into declaring that war, so the lunatic neocon war against Russia they desperately want is okayed by the Congress.
Lea, If you had read all my posts, you would know I have made just that point many times. Putin is under pressure at home to help East Ukraine, BUT, this is just what Washington wants, a Russian invasion. He must hold back to not give NATO this pretext. BUT, he still is not helping enough, he should flood the Self Defense Forces with modern arms and missiles, he can deny he is doing it. Washington arms all kinds of groups and just lies about it. He needs to not invade, but covertly arm the SDF so they can save their people and land. I know this is easier said than done, but right now he is not helping, a few months ago he said he would not allow this Ukraine attacks, but here we are, they are killing many people and Russia sits on it's hands. They can supply the SDF and they should be.
Ethnic Cleansing. Perhaps UKR_NAZIGOV wants them homeless and wandering before Winter.
Well said, and totally agree. However, hard times are coming to this country like never before.
Hard times require character. Bring it on.
Character and the guns and ammo to protect it.
Cosmos I support the Constitution, but me personally, I don't need guns. I have character.
Putin can afford to give up 100 eastern Ukraines if he can split Germany and/or France away from the US.
Wouldn't you make that trade?
Some people have traded many more for nefarious purposes. But I disagree, Putin is doing all that he can at the moment.
gonna be a cold ass winter for the newly minted "european" Ukranians, kind of like Valley Forge, except women and children involved and about 20 degrees colder... maybe nudelman will hand out space heaters
stop encouraging them...
Send the coup forces back to Kyiv Putin by carpet bombing that city.
no no no... not carpet bombing kiev
So your solution is to kill civilians. How enlightened of you.
Why MUST he act? His backdoor take-over of eastern Ukraine failed. Simple really. It's already a costly escapade in global political and economic terms. Putin will cut his losses and pray the world has a short memory.
that's one way of looking at it...
A Fox news reporter who had beenthere for the last two months had an explanation:
He said the rebel forces were very well equiped at checkpoints but were always drunk.
This Zhedgies, these preceeding 3 comments shows team work. The thread version of carpet bombing.
The first guy, schatzi, [nicht, meine liebe] has discovered the leading-italics-voting-block flaw.
Oooh, Mr. 7 weeks registered doing the tinfoil hat bonanza post. Referring to his Zhedgies, as if it's some kind of closed club and suspecting some kind of opinion leading agenda team effort.
Wake up, it's merely an opinion. Mine. In open and democratic societies, free and independent thought is considered an integral part. Which is why I never downvote disagreeing p.o.vs - unless it's racially or religiously offensive or an obvious troll.
What has me worried on this site is on the one hand a strong visible consensus pressure via voting mechanism and on the other hand, the need to believe in some strong world leader. Our leaders failed us in every sense, so the lemmings rush off to support an even worse piece of shit. Putin is a homophobe, he is archaic, he is part of the kleptocratic Russian oligarchy, he is ex-KGB and worst of all he shows off his man-boobs for the whole world to cringe at.
They left because ukr-nazi cut off water,electricity and food supply to whole 100k people city, hard to defend in this position.
I don't understand the logic or thinking one bit. You surround a city of 100,000 for 2 months, shell it with artillery and rockets daily, bomb the water and electrical systems and when most of the civilians have left as refugees and the militia retreats you march in and plant a fucking flag? Now what?
Congrats cannon fodder dumb asses, you've just spent 2 months taking over a city of 100,000, anybody left is going to despise you and want to kill you and the Russian civilians you bombed have strong ties to...Russia and their border is only 75 miles away to the north and southeast.
Brilliant idea. Enjoy the celebration while you can.
They want to kill "russian thinking ukrainians" and to provoke Russia to defend people in this region.
If Russia invade to defend people from genocide - they can blame Russia in ALL whats happening, impose more economic sanction and cut off Russia from Europe,then USA can rob Europe and defend USA from default..
If Russia don't invade - Ukraine will face economic collapse in next 3-4 months..
Does my logic make sense?
Hi Kowalli, I understand that yes I have been following and agree with you. I can understand the motivation behind the American, HATO, UK, Canadian governments but I still cannot understand the willingness of the Ukrainian politicians, officers, grunts and people to allow themselves to be used as pawns. Its as if the whole country west of the Dnepr has gone mad, unable to think things through or contemplate the consequences of their actions.
They have a flag in Slavyansk and Russia hasn't invaded them...now what? How long will it take for them to bomb and take over Donetsk or Luhansk. 2 months per 100,000 people (for Slavyansk) and they'll be still bombing Donetsk 6 years waiting to go in and plant their Ukraine flag...that is if they even make it that far.
I'm sure we've made a lot of promises that we're not going to keep. I bet the oligarchs in Ukrraine are also busy stealing everything that's not nailed down too. It's all dirty.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-14/white-house-admits-cia-director...
My understanding is that Poroshenko is only "in charge" to the extent that his thugs are able to maintain a reign of terror. You probably saw those videos of uncooperative parliamentarians getting the shit beat out of them. It's the Nazi way. There's a bull market in wool sweaters and socks this fall, not to mention Nobel Peace Prizes.
They have west-style media for 23 years and msm is telling them that where are russian special forces in east which kills ukraines. They telling lies which don't have anything with reality like it's terrorist destroying buildings, not an Ukrain army, like terrorist persuade peaceful people to stop army tracks in spring, like people in Odessa did burn themselves. Ukraine army don't have a clue whats going on because their commanders telling them - "all civilians left city" or something like this. Some of ukraine army people's is on the drags like was people in coup maidan in Kiev. They live in dreamworld now and thinking that they will have a happy life in Europe and Russia is disturbing them.
in simple - USA bought all high-ups in Ukraine government or blackmail them. "president" Poroshenko has England's swat team as his guards ^_^ and have Polish and USA passports too. He has a wife with USA passport
You both are right. This victory was inevitable given the lack of Russian support to the Self Defense Fighters. They have no army, just men with light weapons. When a fully equipped army with Heavy Rockets, Heavy artillery, heavy mortars, Helicopter Gunships and Fighter Bombers goes after a single city defended by a few thousand men with infantry weapons, the outcome is not up for question. Ukraine can glory in it's victory, but as you say, this is empty and hollow. By winter this victory will be meaningless as Kievs junta economy ceases to exist. Unemployment at 50%, homes unheated and EU austerity cuts to wages and pensions and health care of 50% and higher.
Kiev is full of nazi fools, their rule will implode the rump Ukraine in a fashion not seen for a century.
The EU can support them for as long as they want with economic aid; if Germany, France and others see an interest in controlling a buffer between them and Russia, there will be relief for Ukraine.
If Germany values its own ass, Germany had better think carefully about who its friends are. Winters in Germany are just as cold as Ukraine.
Try selling that to the EU zones with growing unemployment...we must now send all your tax dollars to supprot Ukraine....I hear some of those French students are pretty radical when they see things not going their way.
"Well planned...perfectly executed." The "enemy" has a say. This is their country...Ukraine has been independent for twenty years...no cllaints I am aware of. With Europe flat on it's back from friggin "Trichet" and the ECB you can have just as many "trouble makers" coming from West to East towards Moscow as you have in Syria right now.
Don't forget Libya as well.
Obviously most of those Ukrainians believe in what they are doing. That doesn't necessarily mean that what they believe and and reality match up very well. Why else would a reporter in western Ukraine suggest using the US constitution because it has worked so well for 200 years but now the US isn't using it anymore. You can bet there are a lot of true patriots on both sides of the fight. If you ask me, neither side is playing smart. They should have banded together years ago when the chance stood before them. They could have been free and independent even if not "rich". Instead we have two patriotic puppets duking it out to see whose master will get paid.
You're logic makes perfect sense kowalli.
Unfortunately the tens of thousands of folks who will be dead between your time limits will never get to understand this logic. Moreover, the actions of the cowardly puppet PPP will be felt for the next few centuries. Cannot envisage a united Ukraine EVER AGAIN.
YE OLDE DIVIDE AND CONQUER OF THE SHEEP FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE FEW.
In order for my opinions to be taken more seriously on this forum and out of respect for the more gifted minds I have decided to limit myself to one FUCK or derivative of FUCK per sentence and one CUNT per paragraph.
Aint fucking easy bro as my blood is fucking boiling with all this shit going down and the pathetic cunts fucking us over at every fucking turn. . . . Oops
The ethnic cleansing is Kiev Junta's logic and thinking. They are following the previously implemented script for Croatia.
Attrocities commited by Ukrainian National Guard in Eastern Ukraine (raw documentary)
+1 (Doesn't seem to be working in your post)
Here's an analysis of Slavyansk, posted a few hours ago at The Vineyard of the Saker, written by someone who's been on the ground there for the past six weeks:
Slavyansk is out of sight now …
...By the middle of June, Slavyansk outlived itself. Having drawn and bound to itself an enormous army grouping, the city, at the same time, required an ever-larger garrison, and, in return, started to tie up the not inexhaustible human and technical resources of the Donbass People’s Army. Besides, being the legal Commander-in-Chief of the Militia, Igor Ivanovich could not provide fulsome guidance to his army from a besieged city. He had a direct line to the DPR government (I do not know about LPR), but this was, understandably, not enough for adequate control over the Militia units...
Igor Ivanovich needed operational freedom, and, this night, he finally found it. Don’t forget – he came to Slavyansk some time ago with a few battered automatic rifles and even smoothbore “Saiga” and “Vepr.” He left with a column of armoured vehicles. No need to even mention the loads of other equipment. This, undoubtedly, is yet another testimony to the dizzying victory of the Ukrainian army, which got a mousetrap instead of a trophy...
4th Stooge says up thread they're [among other things] acting on behalf of Shell to secure shale gas.
Edit: Just noticed your handle. Congadulations if that is where you find yourself. Is that you Mark?
"Congatulations if that is where you find yourself."
Sadly, no, I'm still 7975 miles away. But it's tops on my list, so I figured why not use it as my ZH handle, as I might meet people there. ;-)
[not Mark]
This is a chess game, and those Eastern Ukrainians are going to be used as chess pieces.. It will work out better for Putin if he waits until the atrocities get bad enough and the dots get connected back to western meddling that it cannot duck responsibility. Then Russia/Putin will have a free hand. IMO, he's going to sit back and let us keep on fucking up. The extent of what he will do when we've fucked up one or twelve too many times is what I don't have a clue on.
That's how they handled things in the Georgia War. When the killing of innocent civillians and Russian peace keepers by Georgian artillery reached a tipping point, the tanks rolled. The Zionist trained, NATO supplied Georgia army caused a massive traffic jam, running away on the road back to Tiblisi, their capital.
Putin is best off to not intervene but at the same time use it like PR gold. Every little bit to chip away at Germany. Every little bit to chip away at France. Surely they are not the only countries he's looking at. It isn't a bad trade at all if you are Putin.
EDIT: Hence why I have a low opinion of Putin. He will let those people die in order to increase his power. Yes I understand the bigger picture but he is no humanitarian nor is he a truly honest dealer.
Let's see what happens. The Russians know they're dealing with a dangerous wounded creature.
Trolls from either side that have been ZH members for only a few weeks responding in 3, 2, 1...
You mean the "Go Putin" trolls, or the "You're just Putin's butt buddy" trolls?
Go Putin camp versus Go Maydan Camp, supported or not by FSB, CIA, and other interest groups.
Yeah, that's always fun. Especially when you get people who don't understand the difference between discussing the situation and cheerleading.
Emotions flare up. Indeed interesting and fun. But check some of these people out. They have only been ZH member for a few weeks. 6 months at the most.
Yup. We've done a bang-up job of putting Putin in a position to play the role of the "good" guy, and our guys are assholes. It makes it hard not to chuckle every time he throws a shoe into the gears of DC's mechanizations. But then you remember that Putin is an unapologetic statist and former KGB, not to mention really good at strategy, and it leaves one wondering where he's going to go with this.
Can anyone even begin to believe that if Putin gets his way that it will be better for many people not named Putin?
*shruggs*
Who knows? He's a wild card. We know that he's not afraid to slit some throats (metaphorically speaking - he has underlings for that,) and he probably understands that a strong Russia is good for Putin. A strong Russia is going to require a minimum standard of living for his people. But yes, anything that Putin does I expect to be either for the good of Putin, or for the good of Russia. The man is evolving. Into what, is the question.
Well most of the US-related guys are assholes, but young Hunter Biden helps save millions of needy children worldwide, in his spare time.
How does he help them? By providing free body bags for their families courtesy of the US State Dept???
save us from the trolls Joey A! they always ruin good threads when there are genius guys like you sharing your knowledge... oh wait you haven't posted anything worthwhile in 3 years and 2 days...
i don't know why he is doing that. welcome to new(er) people. some have been reading this board for years before they make their first comment.
Joe A[hole] sounds like an echo from The Guardian. They saw their zato propaganda line overwhelmed in the commet sections by people seeing thru their BS. Their ploy to overcome the problem was to claim the anti-war, anti-zato, pro-Putin/ Russia posts were coming from an imagined army of paid Kremlin posters.
Projecting is the psycho term for the Guardian response, because the Zionists, famously have their rabid keyboard army at the ready. The Pentagon has their crew. Even The Federal Reserve has their very own blogging/ posting crew as evidenced by their want ads to hire same.
Even if there are FSB types posting on English language threads, they are surely vastly out numbered by the paid cacophony from the Western Bankster side.
Simple question. Who has more 'money' to allocate to this type of manipulation, the Kremlin? or the Western Bankster mafia? The same banking mafia that has so much cash they can, for instance, try to buy Russian navy vessels from Frenchship yards.
7 week and 6 days
My point is -and I am repeating myself- that some people that recently signed up are only or mostly commenting on the Ukraine situation. Some people claim to have been following ZH for years -someone even said he/she followed ZH even before it was founded but recently decided to join ZH.
'Junior' ZH members can make just as valuable contributions to ZH as older members but we don't need trolling. The social media are being trolled by 'interest groups' or people with an agenda but think in the spirit of fight club. Would fight club accept trolls?
And you up voted yourself. That's being a real tool Joe.
You have been member for 17 weeks 3 days so how exactly then can you have been followwing me for 3 years and 2 days. Oh that is right, you of course had ZH as you home page since 2005....
This is certainly not directed only at Joe A, but where does this continual silliness come from?:
They have only been ZH member for a few weeks. 6 months at the most.
What is this, a junior high initiation ritual? Outside of very obvious trolls who post nothing of substance, what possible relevance is the date someone happened to register here?
incidentally — i.e. it's completely irrelevant to my comments here — but ZH has been my browser homepage since 2005, and I've read or at least skimmed at least 90% of the posts here for nine years, but didn't register until recently, in part because I suspected that doing so would add significantly to the too much time I already spend on this site. ;-)
But so what. How about just dealing with the substance of the comments, or lack thereof, rather than this nonsense about what date someone happened to register here?
You have it BACKWARDS. If you can't see that, then perhaps more reading is in order.
"Outside of very obvious trolls who post nothing of substance, what possible relevance is the date someone happened to register here?"
(Hint: for the obvious trolls, any date is irrelevant)
BTW: Those of us with day jobs and families generally have better things to do with our time than justify the continued existence of some troll on his master's payroll.
DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.
.
Just out of curiosity, between 2005 and 2009, was your browser homepage set to display "Blog not found - Sorry, the blog you were looking for does not exist. However, the name zerohedge is available to register" or some variant of "An error occurred while loading www.zerohedge.com: Unknown host www.zerohedge.com"?
Sorry, I just couldn't resist. I blame my US citizenism and its eternal nature.
Why did you tell him?
He will modify his story, register under a new username, and be just as annoying.
Nice catch stooge.
To me, the best account profile for the ptb troll is the sleeper account. Set up months ago, and left on the shelf waiting ... til needed.
Those sleepers are somewhat easy to identify if you know how to look. I cam across one two days ago that was four YEARS old (not months). Not a single post until July 1, then a slew of typical talking points and personal slurs... (what made this one weird was that there was actually one (trite and thoughtless) signed post using the Anonymous feature on the old blogspot site.
Unless you want to type query strings directly Google Advanced Search is your friend.
https://www.google.com/advanced_search?hl=en
"Zero Hedge was founded in January 2009."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zerohedge
Someone ought to correct the error at wikipedia, since it was your homepage in 2005.
That is interesting. ZH was founded in 2009 so how it is possible then that ZH has been your browser homepage since 2005.
Junior members can make valuable contributions but I see some junior members only commenting on this Ukraine situation. Kind of strange isn't it?
incidentally — i.e. it's completely irrelevant to my comments here — but ZH has been my browser homepage since 2005, and I've read or at least skimmed at least 90% of the posts here for nine years, but didn't register until recently, in part because I suspected that doing so would add significantly to the too much time I already spend on this site. ;-)
LMAO...Your lie is apparent
Just what information in your post gves it away?
Fine; I misremembered as, as far as I know, there's no way to determine when I first set this site as my browswer home page.
My guess had been that it was about two years following the outbreak of the Iraq War.
Whoopsie do — my guess was wrong; but like most baseless conjecture, all the rubbish that I lied, rather than mistakenly guessed that I've been here for 9 years rather than 5, is incorrect (what possible reason would I do that, rather than simply write that I began reading here in 2009, as the date I re-set my browser home page is just as irrelevant to the substance of my comments here as the date I registered).
So what? Market up another 500 points and silver and gold down the shitters?
Regarding the first sentence of the article, thankfully ZH puts anti-terrorist within single quotes, but how about doing the same with Pro-Russian separatist forces, or even better, substitute:
Anti-fascist forces of the Donetsk Republic
3 weeks and 4 days.
It's time for the ChessMaster to finally take care of business. Knight takes Knight, "CHECKMATE".
just...draw...them in...a...little bit further into...Donbass
Regarding Russian intervention, in my opinion this 1 June post is one of the most incisive, of many, at The Vineyard of the Saker:
Translation of the "must read" article of worldcrisis.ru explaining why there is no Russian intervention in the Ukraine
But even the author of the piece above is now suggesting, at this military and political analysis of the fall of Slavyansk posted a few hours ago…
The Fall of Slaviansk, its meaning and implications
…that things are getting too horrific to hold back much longer.
Now Russia cannot retreat a single centimeter further
That's it. The conflict has now reached a critical phase. If in purely military terms the fall of Slavianks and Kramatorsk are really no big deal, the fall of Donetsk or Lugansk would mean the end of the entire Novorussian project. In simple terms, that would mean a NATO controlled russophobic Nazi regime right across the Russian border. True, Banderastan is not viable and objective economic and now social factors (tens of thousands of heavily armed Nazis roaming across the country, for one thing) will inevitably result in an explosive collapse, but until that happens Lugansks and Donetsk must be held at all cost, including, if that is what it takes, a full-scale ground operation of the Russian armed forces.
If Russia goes in they will devastate the Ukrainian military. They, well Putin, must weigh the plus/minus in terms of 'will this help me break off Germany and/or other American allies?' If he only plays for that tiny slice of Ukraine he has already lost (he needs a bigger buffer zone if that's all this is about). I give him credit for being much wiser than that. Of course his calculation may lead him to intervene if he thinks it will not harm his larger efforts. Who knows what Putin knows (statement, not question).
Saker ignored a "complication" in/to his analysis. Precedent. It would be problematic for Putin to postulate that the artillery bombardment of a city to rubble, followed by an infantry deployment into the rubble, is grounds for international intervention. Porky Pig cannot be allowed to play the Grozny card, there needs to be something specific and even more atrocious to spur intervention.
On related note, Eric Schmidt may be a Nazi in need of a date with a hangman, but he doesn't have monopoly on private near real time satellite imagery. The lack of imagery is troubling, because it would provide a basis for objective measurement. The fact that both sides of the larger game are already receiving much higher resolution real time imagery and are not publishing it, discredits both sides' positions.
Well, there is GREAT precedent for just pounding Ukraine central/west and forces in the east by air. Just obliterate every fucking useful structure and moving target. The US sure showed us how it could be done, right? And not just once either.
Russia doesnt need to send in a single soldier. A few "mistakes" of firing from Ukraine into Russia should give Russia all the legitimacy it needs.
Fuck the Poroshenko-Ukraines (herafter called P-Ukes, or PUkes for short). They are a bunch of disgusting, vile creatures that draw breath they dont deserve.
If (big if) the BBC is to believed, Russia has supplied a large number of old mothballed T64's to the rebels. That'd be the same BBC that barely mentions Ukrainian shelling, but does refer to rebels using mortars (presumably to cover their retreat, and plainly at fairly close quarters).
I'll say it again, if it gets to winter, the Kiev/Nato side is sunk. Hence the push now. They're desperate.
The T64s were the standard (current) Ukrainian tankmodel. The subclassification was not a model Russia has used.
T64B
Thanks for that, not at all surprised. BBC was regurgitating that they had to be Russian because all Ukrainian ones are painted with Ukrainian markings - like they don't have paint there! That and the frankly dubious satellite pictures. Looks like false flag and/or blatant misreporting then.
The whole world seems to be demanding for Putin to act. This is a trap, he knows it and he will do things on his own terms. Judging by the pictures, Ukie Zio-Nazis could've just as easily planted their flag into a toilet bowl. This city is totally destroyed. Napoleon went all the way to Moscow and then Russian army marched through the streets of Paris. Hitler's solders could almost see the streets of Moscow and then Russians took Berlin.
The Slavyansk was holding up for months, against massive artillery and aerial bombardments. The defenders of this city were outnumbers 100:1 and yet Kiev couldn't subdue them. Many other cities might fall and still, the outcome of this war will not be in Kiev's/Washington favor.
Russia is pulling the world away from the US fraudulent economic models. This will take time and phenomenal effort. Once it is done, Kiev's mafia will disappear into emptiness like it never existed or will be hung from the lamp posts of maidan. All in all, nothing to worry about, this just a distraction from a much, much bigger game.
3 weeks and 2 days.
add something or fuck off... 0 weeks, 0 days, 1 minute and counting...
TIME, think in terms of TIME folks, slow retreat, stretch their supply lines out and wait for WINTER. Wait for WINTER. Wait for WINTER.
Spot on.
17 weeks 3 days
Ok, just this, then I'm gonna leave you alone.
Look at your posts. What are you adding? Who is the troll?
You are the troll. You have outed yourself.
And you trolls just go away
This guy is making me miss Top Gear....