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Pro-Russian Rebels Flee Slavyansk After "Massive Shelling", Demand Putin's Help To Avoid "Genocide"
Pro-Russian separatist forces have been forced to retreat from their stronghold in Slavyansk following "massive shelling" in the early morning from Ukraine's 'anti-terrorist' forces. Armored vehicles entered the city and the rebels, according to RT, decided to move back to their headquarters in Kramatorsk to 'prepare' in advance for further offensives. Just days after the cease-fire was lifted, newly-appointed Defense Minister Valery Heletey commented the "order to free Slaviansk from the (separatist) fighters has been carried out," but pro-Russian supporters are not done yet and exclaimed: "Pass on these words to Putin: the people of the Donbass believed him for some reason when he said he would help. But now they (government forces) are killing peaceful civilians and if that is not genocide I would like to know what is."
Government forces recaptured a flashpoint area of eastern Ukraine from pro-Russian rebels on Saturday, and Ukraine said its blue and yellow flag was flying again over what had been the separatist redoubt of Slaviansk.
A Reuters reporter saw a convoy of about 20 military transport vehicles and buses filled with armed rebels driving out of Kramatorsk where they had gone after apparently earlier fleeing Slaviansk 20 km (12 miles) to the north.
"Your order to free Slaviansk from the (separatist) fighters has been carried out," newly-appointed Defense Minister Valery Heletey was quoted by the presidential website as telling Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko.
IMAGE: #Ukraine flag raised in #Slavyansk after Donetsk militia left city for #Kramatorsk http://t.co/LjN3OMfqpm pic.twitter.com/TANPVjsUXl
— RT (@RT_com) July 5, 2014
"A significant number of militants have left Slaviansk ... along the way, our battle groups are greeting them. They are suffering losses and surrendering," he said in a statement on his Facebook page.
As RT reports, according to Channel One’s information “there was massive shelling” and then armored vehicles entered Slavyansk and street fighting began. That’s when the self-defense forces took the decision to leave the city, the channel said.
“Despite the massive shooting, the fighters stormed out of the city and headed for neighboring Kramatorsk. Part of their hardware was shot down in the process,” the channel said.
Prime Minister of the Donetsk People’s Republic, Aleksandr Boroday, explained...
“Our troops have consolidated at the reserve lines of defense, in an organized way and having kept their weaponry. We were prepared for this option, as we have to face tens of thousands of Kiev's military men and hundreds of armored weaponry units – which means almost all the battle-ready Ukrainian army,” Boroday said.
"Taking into account the ‘scorched earth’ tactics employed by Kiev's punitive forces, and the strategy of genocide toward the Donbass population, we declare that every hour of military action claims civilians’ lives,” Boroday said.
This followed impassioned pleas for help late last week...
Igor Strelkov, a Muscovite appointed as defense minister of the self-declared Donetsk People's Republic, said without Moscow's aid the region the rebels lay claim to, known as Novorossiya (New Russia), would fall to Kiev's forces.
"Slaviansk will fall earlier than the rest," he wrote on a rebel website.
...
"Pass on these words to (Russian President Vladimir) Putin: the people of the Donbass believed him for some reason when he said he would help. But now they (government forces) are killing peaceful civilians and if that is not genocide I would like to know what is.
"The (rebel) fighters are without shoes and don't have anything to fight with."
So far the only actions taken by Russia are to stop selling arms to Ukraine...
The Russian Foreign Ministry announced Saturday that Moscow is halting the process of delivering weapons, Ukrainian military forces' equipment and funds from the territory of Crimea to Kiev authorities due to their military actions in the east, which have resulted in the “deaths of civilians, including children, and civilian infrastructure in Donetsk and Lugansk regions being destroyed.
“The decision will be valid until a full ceasefire in the east of Ukraine by the country’s military and until a peaceful solution is reached,” Russia’s Foreign Ministry said.
* * *
As the tensions shift from blood in the streets to energy-wars centred around Austria, Bulgaria, the South Stream, new 'targeted' sanctions, and a potential German-Russia alliance, one wonders just how long before Putin must act.
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"The Slavyansk was holding up for months…"
Also, note at:
The Fall of Slaviansk, its meaning and implications
Those of us with a military background all understood that this was pretty much inevitable and, obviously, so did the leaders of the Novorussian resistance. The fact that it took so long for the entire Ukie army to take that small town really says a lot about the amazing courage of its defenders and/or about the no less amazing incompetence (or lack of motivation) of the attackers. It appears that what happened is that Strelkov [Donetsk Republic Defense Minister: see 3 July Urgent Appeal…(video + transcript)] took the (wise) decision to abandon the town and to only leave a very small covering force to protect his retreating units.
This plan apparently went well, the defenders broke through the Ukie lines with no losses and they are now heading towards the city of Gorlovka (as defending Kramatorsk and Konstantinovka makes no sense at this point). The military purpose of Slaviansk was to concentrate the Ukie death squads around itself to allow for the preparation of the real line of defense along the Donetsk-Gorlovka-Lugansk axis. The battle for Slaviansk achieved this purpose.
So you've never seen a "totally destroyed? city in your life have you?
Edit: Putin knows how to destroy a city: https://www.google.com/search?q=grozny+destroyed&client=firefox-a&hs=aYL&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Zda4U6LJJvGlsATH3oGIBA&ved=0CB4QsAQ
Your knowledge from google?
Russians always rely on General Winter.
This time no different?
Snow, cold and mud and Ukraine collapses for the same reason Hitler's armies did.
Out of Gas.
7 weeks and 4 days.
whatever happened to Yatsenyuk, is he already a "senior fellow" at AEI with a McMansion in Bethesda?
17 weeks and 3 days.
Are you a broken calendar?
more like 4 years here... but you're good at research, apparently and your point is what Joe? Anything constructive?
Dont need winter just yet, autumn and the rains and the muddy fields that bogged down the Germans more than winter ever did will come into play. Once the main roads are blown up should be interesting to see how the muddied countryside will be traversed by KIEV. If you watch the WW2 documentaries you will see that autumn completely ground the German offensive to a halt. Actually when winter set in the muddy fields froze and the Germans could move ahead with the offensive. However what did them in was one of the COLDEST winters on record where temperatures plunged to -30C and perhaps even colder.
The only way then to resupply will be via air and we have seen what the stinger-type missiles can do so far.
this campaign might be similar to 1941-42, but the scale is totally different. in 1941, the axis invaded with a host of something like 3,000,000 soldiers and thousands of tanks (including assault guns). at the onset on 22 jun 1941, the soviets had something like 70,000 AFVs (tanks + armoured cars). during that ~4-year campaign, the respective armies could lose 10,000 soldiers in a day and hardly bat an eye.
it seems that the scale of this current campaign is something like 1,000 soldiers here or there, a few dozen tanks/armoured cars, a handful of aircraft. even so, agreed that it could be 'interesting' with the main roads blown and the combatants outside of the towns relegated to mud beneath their boots, wheels, and tracks.
things do like rather dire for russia. the 'west' has been encroaching on the ussr/russia for decades now. there is a lot of this that makes no sense, and hasn't made sense for generations. is putin playing a shrewd hand, or are all of the respective figureheads simply members of a club?
depending on who you are, it seems the one thing that all politicians share in common is that they either 1) enrage their opponents or 2) give false hope to their supporters. that's about all that politicians do. how could barry or vlad be any different?
The West is not what it used to be. Less and less impact on the physical, more and more focus on the digital.
Hence great 'media' and outstanding subversions. The (proxy) wars, on the other hand, get cheaper. Compare the Iran-Iraq war for instance with the 'Jihadi' war against Syria.
yes, they do seem to get more and more results with less and less of their own troops.
RAND Corporation “Action Plan” for Eastern Ukraine includes Ground Assaults, Air Strikes, Internment Camps and On-The-Spot Execution for Anyone Resisting Relocation
http://thenewsdoctors.com/?p=177289
Wait! I read that report, but it was for the US. Do you think they just changed the name on it to Ukraine?
Fuckers. They submitted the same study, and probably billed twice.
I think the document could be a plant... but anohter part of me asks whether or not Rand would be willing to offer up such a plan.
Then, yes, maybe the document is totally genuine.
Please make up your mind.
The scariest thing about the "Rand Report" is that it coincides perfectly with the apparent intentions of the ZUSA Deep State...
There's no doubt that Russia is playing defense and the US is instigating trouble. That doesn't mean I take everything Russia or its supporters say at face value. I agree with this assessment.
Analysis of July 5 Slaviansk Developments
"The sky is not falling...
Since April 4th, this is the only major maneuver by the tattered Kiev Junta (KJ), whose fighters are primarily not Ukraine army but rather foreign mercenaries combined with Right Sector militia (trained) and untrained supporter-fanatics that have been indoctrinated by Radio Svoboda and Radio Free Europe under Operation Gladio ever since the post WWII period, but increasingly so since the early 90?s collapse of the USSR...
This ‘chicken little/sky is falling’ type of ‘analysis’ is neither incisive nor descriptive and falls for the common error of having one’s sense of the developments being led around by the nose by the controlled news cycle, which reports reality in a strange ‘immediate cause and effect’ sort of way. The news cycle also places the importance of ‘immediate’ news over the bigger picture, because this garners clicks, ad revenue, and general interest. The negative result is a view of the situation that loses all sense of proportion and the real operating dynamics. It is important for Russia to be criticized for not doing enough, especially if this becomes the dominant criticism in western Europe.
The underlying belief that one takes from this line is that Russia is not formally involved. This noble lie allows Russia’s allies in Europe to place more pressure on media, public and on the pro-NATO side of Europe (inner politics) and increase the fissure between the EU Atlanticists and the growing EU crypto-Eurasianists.."
Good link. Someone else noticed that the Kiev Junta taking Slaviansk could be more headaches for them.
It won't be Umm Qasr where the US claimed that the Iraqi port was under their control only to have them come back over and over saying that they had control.
Worse, though, is that these groups will turn to domestic terrorism. *REAL* terrorism. Car bombs in Kiev and the like. I'm sort of amazed no one has gone that route yet but it seems inevitable now.
Car bombs was in Donetsk... They wanted to kill head of freedom fighters in east...
kowalli - asking this in case you or someone else knows the answer.
What are the dominant religions in Slavyansk area?
Russian Orthodox
Ukrainian orthodox and not russian orthodox, there are also Greek catholic churches in the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts. Just Wiki for basic info.
Listen dude, eastern orthodox is Eastern Orthodox, you can walk into any church from Greece, to Serbia, to Bulgaria, to Romania, to Ukraine, to RUSSIA and you will feel at home in the Orthodox church, just like your ass can go to any catholic church around the world and you are still catholic, capiche?!!
thanks all - I was wondering if religion is a major factor in the conflict.
Well there is eastern rite and western rite catholicism, greek orthodox, russian orthodox and
ukrainian orthodox all in different languages, what does capiche mean ?
capiche = get it? or understand?
I may be wrong - the only Italian I know comes from watching Goodfellas.
question was what is dominant..
answer is Russian Orthodox as in Russian Eastern Orthodox Third Rome (Rom)
opposing from west is pagans worshipping Catholic corrupt, vile, evil and discredited second Rome
Thanks Vol - That is exactly what I was looking for. Since the Ukraine trouble started, I've been suspicious that underneath all the talk about East/West, EU/Russia, gas pipelines, etc, is the age-old war of who bows before Rome.
Here's another good link for you. Actually it's better because news stories hit here (column on the left) before other sites like RT, Voice of Russia, etc. You need to get familiar with the translations, however, such as "Punishers" or "Germans" means the Kiev junta.
The militia seems to be holding its own so there's no need for Putin to directly intervene as long as that's the case, considering all the negatives at this time of direct support. All the civilian deaths and injuries are horrible, but there could be more if he attacks now and things escalate. Reading his various speeches, he knows what's going on.
http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.en/www.segodnia.ru/news/142370
URGENTLY. At the airport in Lugansk destroyed Il-76 punishers
05.07.2014 - 18:10
Militia LNR carried out a successful operation in the area of Lugansk to the airport, which is defending the airmobile division of the Kyiv junta.
As was reported at the headquarters of the militia, the enemy was fired from heavy mortars and MLRS "Grad". Fire defenders LNR destroyed located in the airport area of IL-76. In addition, the "punitive lost 7 of the vehicles, mortar calculation, anti-aircraft installation ZU 23-2, five cars and about a hundred of soldiers killed and wounded".
great link, thank you.
Very good link. A bit less emotional than The Saker.
For those of us favouring the success of Novorussia, it's important to bear in mind (as noted at the link) that Anglophone press coverage is not a key matter here, since the Continentals, leadership and popular opinion, will be the key to the future of Ukraine. The Anglophone leadership, as we all know, will not let its Ukraine Adventure be influenced by mere popular opinion.
How can you not be emotional with this shit going down????
Very good link, thanks.
All evidence is Putin knows the score, understands and cares, and is under tremendous domestic pressre to do something.
Putin however can never let himself forget that the battle for Ukraine is about the survival of Russia and preventing World War III. It's a bold move in the center of the board, a possibly final bid by the Empire for world hegemony, even as the foundations of its position are collapsing. In chess, it's called a gambit. If Putin takes Ukraine or Novorussia by force, he's fucked, Ukraine's fucked, Russia's fucked, and truth be told we're all fucked.
Putin laid out his strategy very clearly about two weeks ago: Hold the line, pursue diplomacy, no open flames in the powderhouse, and openly encourage countries and ruling classes to abandon the dollar and the Empire, as the Ukraine putchist government, the Western Alliance and the petro-Empire crumble. Which all is happening with amazing speed.
Putin may have to do something military to keep the Ukraine anti-fascists in the field, like a no-fly zone maybe. Look for a minimal action, at the last minute, preceeded by loud demands for international action. The strains and divisions in Europe are very far advanced and the US reaction to Russia's move at that point will only further exacerbate them.
So far the only actions taken by Russia are to stop selling arms to Ukraine...
Now there's an idea. the usa would never resort to that extreme a measure. Normally the ptb would look to arm both sides or bomb some targets to even up the fighting. cut off the aggressors weapons and fuel instead of pouring gasoline on the fire ala owebomba's usual methods seems like a reasonable approach.
As soon as it was clear that Teflon Barry was going to nothing about Crimea and there was no risk of US boots on the ground, the markets ceased to care.
Meals-on-wheels and sleeping bags are BULLISH!
Same per Iraq (just keep referring to those troops being sent in as "advisors").
What could go wrong?
Lol, GRU agent Girkin (a.k.a Strelkov) literally begging Putin for help in that open letter, complaining that his men have been completely demoralized by the lack of Russian help. Played the role of useful idiot well. But is is over for him now. Or maybe you should check Pushilins twitter where he complains about Putin giving them hope and then kicking them away.
Zerohedge (portraying itself as some kind of alternative but in reality GRU psy-ops) fails to mention the fall of Kramatorsk and that separatists run all the way to Donetsk, but no surprise there...
Stirring shit in east Ukraine and consolidating Crimea in the meantime, then kick the useful idiots to the curb. Actually reasonably played Russia. Good to have so many of them idiots.
I just doesn't get it- what's good in killing people which don't want to live with Ukr-Nazi sponsored by USA?
2 regions don't want to live with rest of Ukraine,they have had a referendum, they wanted to talk...
People - what's wrong with you((((
You cannot call that a referendum with people with guns and rifles about, put your paper in the wrong box and you might get shot ! By all means let Luhansk and Donetsk have a referendum on whether to have closer links with Russia but only with outside independant observers.
You cannot call that an election with 300 thousand foreign boots on the ground and your countries army decimated by air strikes....fyi there is no wrong box there is one box and nobody looks at your ballot when you put it in the box...have you ever voted?
SW
I think you know where I'm coming from.
Whilst the media around the world continues to act as if nothing is going on as do our "leaders" some at least have spoken out against the situation in Ukraine and Europe and Germany becoming slaves to banks and corporations. This is a speech by deputy in the German Bundestag. Very good speech if you ask me, its 13 minutes long and identifies a lot of the issues that people have with what is going on in Europe and Ukraine. Well worth the watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1CjuJCaTR4
MEANWHILE:
Ukraine makes first step to let EU, US co-manage national gas pipeshttp://rt.com/business/170436-ukraine-pipes-eu-us/
Plainly a "throw in everything including the kitchen sink" effort to either defeat the rebels or - more probably the desired outcome - push Putin into making a military move before winter renders UKraine totally fubar.
On further reflection, also looks like a propaganda move to make Putin look weak. Since I'm sure he doesn't want Nato at his frontier, I wonder what his response will be? If Russia assisted/suggested Donbass make a few limited attacks on the pipeline, that might shake things up, and make Europe pivot over South Stream...just a though. Attacks on infrastructure mean much more to the TPTB turds than attacks on people anyway.
You're right, they would rather be defeated by Russia and pin all their failures on Putin, then simply perish in their own shit during winter. So, whatever it takes, they want to push Russia into this conflict. They will shell Russian boarders, kill and torture local residents in the Sout-East, antagonize Moscow with their stupid Neo Nazi parades, etc, etc...
"The basis of American power is that the war is always happening somewhere else". The sooner the world wakes up to this reality and stop empowering the US fraudulent policies, the sooner we will be living in a much better world.
Here in UK, the BBC (always a paragon of virtue and balance, cough coug) reports Nato reprting Russia having supplied old T64s to the Donbass rebels, with civiliann satellite pics (whicvh we're TOLD are recent) showing a Russian depot with then weithout tanks. Not that these things aren't mobile, y'know. .
The Choco Prince was elected and he has say now.
What I don't understand is why didn't the Ukrainian people vote for Julia Timoshenko? She is the People's Princess, chozen personally by George Soros. As a common person she fights against olicharchy and for the common folk. She is the Ukrainian version of Hillary Clinton. And everyone loves Hillary. /s
"Stealing Popcorn"
Little movie tells US Prosecutors about Yulia's gas steallings, money launder and offshore hidings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clgN_7HHqbw
Lazerenko in US Prison, but not Yulia, cos she needed for other plans
And this recent Truthseeker episode: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lklRk_Xit_A
For once I will agree with Volko, Julia is a crook.
glad you put the /s tag , for a second i thought you were insane
The commander in Slavyansk has made clear for around two weeks now that their resistance could not last much longer. If no help came he said then a retreat was the only response to the giant build up of Kiev Artillery, Rocket launchers, mortars, tanks and aircraft attacks. Simply put, with no heavy weapons and outnumbered 20 to 1 in men, he said they would retreat once all Kiev's firepower then in place began to fire. And this is just how it has worked out. No sane person could expect the Self Defense Forces to last another month against the build up by Kiev. That much would have been clear to anyone reading the press releases of the resistance and the social media of the soldiers.
Now we are left with some big questions. What line does the self defense assume. Active resistance is reactionary and defensive due to being totally out numbered and out gunned.
Big questions are being asked inside Russia and East Ukraine. Russia said they would not allow this type of mass invasion by junta troops and the mass use of heavy weapons against civilians. But this is just what is happening, and Putin goes golfing. Could he be Obama's golf buddy?
Look beyond the obvious, I think this is a brilliant maneuvering on the part of the resistance. Putin might appear playing golf with one hand, while moving some serious chess figures with the other. The Kiev's junta is getting overstretched and they're clearly committing suicide by taking orders from their masters in the US. Whatever Russian politicians are doing cannot be interpreted at face value. Things are moving along just as intended. Think about it -Russia can wipe out the Ukrainian military within few hours and the only reason it is not yet done, is because after 6/9 months it won't be necessary.
Or maybe after 9 months Ukraine will be under EU influence and stabilized? It's fascinating how no matter what Putin does, he has his admirers on this board who see genius behind his actions. Perhaps more simply in this case he knows he has played his hand and is satisified with Crimea, knowing the world won't tolerate more Russian troups Ukraine?
Yes, he is human and I'm sure he made some serious mistakes but the people of Russia are clearly better off under Putin then they ever were. So, he must be doing something right and so far, Russia is the only country where the life for average people is constantly improving rather than degrading. Obviously, this is far from perfect but compare to the 90s - this is a whole different world. All of that to say, is that if Putin is corrupt and his corruption is benefitting the citizens of Russia, then I wish all other leaders would be just as "corrupt".
The other night, I watched this debate called : Putin Has Been Good For Russia (Filmed at the Royal Geographical Society on 23rd May 2013) in which you can clearly see that the pro-Putin camp tends to use a lot facts, where is the anti-Putin camp is just spewing some pathetic stories that we're all suppose to believe in without any evidence. Also, I noticed that whenever somebody is in disagreements with the anti -Putin camp, they're usually presented as some Kremlin agents or simply attacked on a more personal level but never factually.
"...the people of Russia are clearly better off under Putin then they ever were..."
I've not verified the accuracy of every claim, but here's the image to go with that statement:
15 Years of Putin (1999 - 2013)
See you in 9 months....buy me a virtual beer if Ukraine is a disaster....I will buy you a vritual beer if it is a success. I am just curious when you say "the world" who exactly are you talking about....and what exactly is this "world" going to do?
Everybody wants Putin. Nobody wants Obama.
Things are going right for a change.
Never, ever forget that it's not about Obama.
It's not even about the little man behind the curtain.
It's about the Empire.
Putin & Co. vs. the Empire. We can all be thankful he's staying cool and playing good chess.
Please accept this post for what it is and not a statement of fact or my opinion. This is the latest press release on social media from the commander of the forces who held the Slavyansk front for more than two months against the entire Kiev army. This is what he says the situation is and what role his defense of the city accomplished. So read it for what it is, his opinion of his military position right now.
"
1. Slavyansk has drawn all the effective strength of enemy forces, giving by that an opportunity to mobilize the militia forces in Donetsk and Lugansk.
2. Slavyansk has shown for all the people of the South-East, who were still blissfully unaware, that they have been as from now for Kiev’s junta government not the citizens, but pro-Russian activists, so-called “Colorados”, terrorists and soft-skinned targets.
3. Slavyansk made it possible for the self-defense forces under control of Aleksei Mozgovoi to break through the land and air frontier, thanks to which some very useful military stuff have penetrated to the region.
4. Slavyansk has allowed the militia to organize across the whole region around 10 fortified centers of resistance, which Ukrainian army is afraid to assault. The more or less visible front line has occurred, also logistics, tactics and to some extent strategic police in this war have been getting clearer.
5. It was the self-defense of Slavyansk, who shot down majority of the Ukrainian aircrafts.
6. Slavyansk has allowed time for the development of political centers on the south-east, made it possible to legitimatize them and of course, provided covering fire during the referendum.
7. Finally, thousands of raw soldiers have been in the field emplacements of Slavyansk, which helped them from the expendables and cannon fodder to become real warriors."
Point #7 is very important, the real war experience is infinitely more valuable than any training out there. These warriors will do an enormous amount of damage in the very near future. Mark my word.
Putin has shown again and again that he can act very decisively, quickly and efficiently (think Georgia 2008). As I said, the only reason Russia is keeping the Kiev's junta alive is because there is another plan for them - the one the US won't be able to capitalize on.
Thanks for this report, Jack. I have admired this commander’s complete truthfulness when he has spoken, never using the hyperbole that we’ve expected from war leaders overemphasizing their victories as does Kiev and Washington – the latter lacing their reports with lies…and more lies.
Andre Vltchek, writing on CounterPunch, gives this perspective on our Potomac Madmen and their cultivation of war:
“They seem to be tired of tiny conflicts, which they are continuously stirring all over the globe. Libya is not enough and Congo is not enough. They need something big, really big… The Empire needs a mortal fight with mighty opponents. Instead of helping to build a decent and peaceful world, it needs to cover our planet with innumerable corpses. This time, if it will be allowed to do it, like it was some 70 years ago, tens of millions, and maybe many more, will vanish… The anti-Chinese and anti-Russian propaganda howl is reaching a deafening crescendo, especially in Asia. Western media outlets are in the highest gear, spreading propaganda through their local media affiliates in the client states, mostly owned by big business. China and Russia are now vilified, openly insulted, and blamed for the escalation of tensions in the Asia-Pacific region, and for the military buildup.
“The entire mighty Western propaganda machine is now at work, demonizing China, Russia and other independent countries. It is because the West is obviously pushing this planet towards war. Not to see it would require great discipline. Politicians are parading, one after another, in front of television cameras, pledging allegiance…to the Empire. All those derogatory and inflammatory speeches against their ‘enemies’ are embarrassing, see-through, but nobody in North America and Europe is laughing, as they are becoming the norm. Many are warning that this can lead to a world war, that the West has lost all restraint and is ready to bathe the planet in blood…”
The march to tyranny goes on…
@Jack Burton
I just gotta ask? Why you are you here, Are you "Pro-Russian", just not in the fighting on the ground? I read your comments and ask myself, "Is this commentor on Putin's side?" Really, I do. I can't figure your side out in this Ukraine/Russia thing.
Thank You
FlyinHigh
You think that when one disagrees with Western FP towards Russia, that person immediately is a fan of Putin or pro/Russian all the way?
I guess you always need a side and simply can't know the truth and remain on your own side?
He's here because he's intelligent, articulate, and cares about facts and issues that will have an effect on all of us. Why are you here?
@ Gadfly
I to am here to try to see threw all the bulshit that is commented here, and put out as facts. But with all the socialists commy one sided crap that is spewed out as fact , is just personal opinions.
And You?
FlyinHigh
A musical requiem (of sorts) for those who died in Slaviansk (video)
"Warning: the language of war is not a delicate one, nor is the language used in this song. To those who might be shocked by the kind of 'non-normative lexicon' used here by Grebenshchikov, and who clearly have never been anywhere near a Russian military unit, I will say that this is nothing compared to what you could have heard from the defenders of Slaviansk. As for the message of the song - 'we have been betrayed' - I am not saying that it is factually correct, only that it is emotionally right. I sure hope that those who died defending Slaviansk did not die in vain."
The Sake
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/
American aggression with international banker pressure is forcing Vladimir Putin into only two responses: First, the one he is pursuing is to use world opinion and European business pressure to force diplomatic steps to end the fighting and eventually provide self-determination for those areas of Eastern Ukraine who want it. Already, he has forced Kiev into negotiations which include the Separatists, France, Germany and Russian officials along with Kiev…but not the United States.
In the beginning, Kiev completely refused this kind of negotiation but the pressure on Kiev as it attacks and kills its own citizens is mounting from around the world in spite of the aggressiveness of the United States and US media.
Second, Putin can respond by helping the Separatists with men and materials as the Separatists are asking. This he will not do because the gradualism of this effort would favor Kiev. If the negotiations do not produce a meaningful ceasefire soon, then Putin is likely to take the only option open to him – massive military action to seal off Eastern Ukraine and destroy any Ukrainian military units that continue fighting.
It is completely natural that the Eastern Ukrainians are begging for Putin’s help and their pleadings are drawing closer a Russian response.
If the United States succeeds in forcing Putin to take military action, and then responds itself militarily, then the American people can say good-bye to their protective isolation and the high moral ground they have pretended to occupy.
I love The Saker's stuff, especially because he is never afraid to show his emotions and he often admits that he is guided by heart. I don't know any other blog like his. Saying that, I totally disagree with his latest assessments/analysis of the Slavyansk retreat. This is a tactical regrouping, it also demonstrated that the entire Ukrainian army couldn't defeat the resistance in over two months, in a relatively small city. Slavyansk was abandoned not conquered. Everything is moving in the intended direction.
The Saker will be glad to hear that, C of DNA. And so am I. A great report.
We had a great opportunity for a reset in our relationship with Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union. We could of saved the dollar by not going into debt for a vast military outfit that was no longer necessary. Yet we took the line that why negotiate when one has a position of strength and can have it all even though the Russians were ready to negotiate from their position of weakness and we both could of benefited tremendously. The people of the East looked to the West yet we RAPED them with the IMF and tried to plunder their resources with puppet governments. We will pay the pipper for our misdeeds.
team zion forward.
goy have to die so israel can grow.
goy have to leave for europe and the uk so monsanto and chevron can live long.
based on the way the bbc has told this story we can assume ww1 and ww2 are not what they seem in are minds eye.
israel as a state is a cancer on the world.
they are indeed satans men who thrive on ritual blood and slaughter.
Chevron have been busy bees in Ukraine since the Noodleman revolution... didn't Cunnilingus Rice work for Chevron, in the 90's ... or was that just a crazy dream ...or does shit just keep repeating,
I think that was Congo Lisa Rice, who worked at Chevron's leather divison.
I have been examining my feelings about the Ukraine crisis.
I realized I felt the same way as when Sarajevo was being shelled day in and day out.
I have also been examining my feelings about the Iraq meltdown.
I realized I felt the same way as when South Vietnam fell to pieces after the US forces pulled out.
Injustice and waste of life and treasure...
It turns out that Saigon was a near retirement posting for all the CIA spooks that had been deployed in Berlin.Generate some paperwork to justify your existence.
5500 staff at Baghdad US Embassy.Of course they are all essential..
Genocide of Russian speaking people in the Ukraine next by neo-Nazis, while the moral west not only stands by but encourages the killing, nice one Obama.
Yet oddly, they couldn't stay out of Libya.
Putin could send Ukraine members of the Moscow Police Force to assist with the cease-fire observations. Some Moscow Police Officers are in trouble with their "superiors"...
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russian-policewomen-to-be-dis...
Kyiv Post is reporting that "Russia" shot 300 Pro-Russian Rebels when they tried to flee Ukraine and cross into Russia.
http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/dmitry-tymchuks-military-blog-russ...
Kyiv Post is terrible.
Its aka the CIA's Local Gazette
I don't think Putin gives one shit about the freedom-fighters in the Ukraine.
And most of the American sheeple think that Russia is the aggressor because they watch the lamestream presstitute whore media. Maybe some travel agent should start booking tours of these bombed out cities so all these American retards can see what's really going on ovewr there. they can take excursions to bombed out residential neighborhoods with blown apart bodies of women and children lying around. then they can go visit the troops that killed them all and join in the celebration. Then they can all have pizza and beer parties into the evening. the next day maybe some of the American idiots can push the buttons that fire the artillary while others with binoculars can spot the explosions that are close enough they can all hear the shrieks and horrific cries of the women and children being blown to bits. Then they can go take pics of the bodies. What a memorable trip it would be.
MSM guaranteed Putin was Hitler. Where's the blitzkrieg and the ovens?
What did you really think was going to happen but this? That Ukraine was just going to roll over, and give up there land? Then your stupider then the "Pro-Russians" high tailing it outta there. Next will be "Crimea", then it is really "On".
Really, hope to see you enlist for the Crimea Campaign with the SS squad 'Dumbkopf'
re ....there land...
Now that is pretty stupid: someone who doesn't know the proper usage of there & their calling others stupid.
Frankie -like we used to say when working for Uncle Sam, good enough for government work.
HA! With a name like "NuYawk" and you criticize me about spelling? Now just that isn't the kettle calling itself black? Never mind.
Ukrainian Nuclear Mental Cases:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lklRk_Xit_A
For those of you watching developments in Ukraine - as I am - I'll let you in on what might well be going on.
It might well be that the retreat from Slovayansk was in fact ordered from - Moscow. By Putin himself.
But why?
To (some extent anyway) allow the Western journalists to enter Slovayansk and report on some of the atrocities and destruction of the city - who performed all this destruction? The Kievan junta obviously.
And who is the desired audience? Western Europe and it's key leaders - Merkel & Hollande and the populations of their respective nations - but more importantly - the prime audience is the BRICS leadership. In particular China & Xi Jinping of course.
But why now? Well, for one the World Cup hosted by his Brazilian mates is almost up - just a week to go. For those wondering why Putin has stood by in a military sense for the past month - there's your answer.
It would be highly inappropriate and in fact down right rude to kick off what could turn into World War III while some of your best mates (Brazil) are holding their "Coming Out" Party. We all know of course that the West extended nothing of this sort of courtesy to Russia by instigating the February coup in Ukraine while Putin was himself constrained to react forcefully by the Russian hosting of the Winter Olympics down the road from the Donbass in Sochi.
But apart from the World Cup, why else order an evacuation from Slovayansk now?
Because - BRICSA Summit in Fortaleza - July 15-17, 2014. Also in Brazil.
Isn't this interesting. What better chance to demonstrate to his BRICSA allies that they need to stand together and stand up to the Western Imperialism as represented and carried out by the Kievan forces than the utter destruction of Slovayansk to point to to persuade them that they must stand with and support Russia in this time of need.
I would look for a joint communique announcement and ultimatum to be delivered at the BRICSA Summit to Ukraine to cease and desist from all offensive operations in Eastern Ukraine within 48-72 hours lest Russia be forced to intervene to protect the peace and security within Eastern Ukraine.
This statement will be fully supported by China - or else it will not be made. If there is no such announcement you can be convinced China has yet to make up its mind on Russia/ The West. No doubt Putin would love to be able to make such a statement / ultimatum after the pretext of the destruction of Slovayansk with the full support of China.
In Summary - don't pay too much attention to anything that happens over the next 2 weeks. It will all be theatre. Wait for the end of the BRICSA Summit and see if these leaders can stand together and stand up to the West. Can they? I'm not sure.
Ideas, you are so full of shit, I can smell you from here. The USA is imperialist now, you fucking retarded cunt, fuck off!
Ha - I upvoted you. I have no idea where your coming from in terms of what I posted. Where did I say they weren't? lol
Anyway, I am about as far from this as you can get - closest city to the South Pole thanks.
"looking for a place to happen, making stops along the way" - The Tragically Hip
Good observation Ides of November as was your interesting comment the other day on Syria etc. By November 2015 the people of Earth are going to start hearing about and talking about... COP 21.
All roads lead to Paris
"...allow the Western journalists to enter Slovayansk and report on some of the atrocities and destruction of the city..."
Here's a report (I've not yet seen second-sourced) regarding Saurovka, 161 kilometers from Slavyansk:
Ukrainian Successors to Hitlerite Wehrmacht Rape and Murder in Saurovka
Also, there's:
White Book
'On Violations of Human Rights and the Rule of Law in Ukraine (November 2013 - March 2014)'
Behind the scenes America keeps pushing. The idea of America getting involved or jumping into a war in Ukraine would have been hard to imagine a few years ago. Allowing events to deteriorate into a major war or possibly into what some see as World War III is becoming a reality.
As insane as it appears this could become the final outcome. The location of this as a military confrontation is right in Putin's backyard and this is a strong advantage for Russia. It is silly to think Putin and Russia will back down. This means poking the bear is not a smart move. More on this subject in the article below.
http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2014/04/war-in-ukraine-bad-idea_26.html
:))) what a post man.....what has to do with the US? jeeez, boyz, grow up.
Do please try and keep up, and indeed have a look at what is going on in the world. Surely that's why you visit ZH?
Oh, the peaceful pro-russians want help now!!?? roflmfao
To the pro-communists (russians), starting an uprising and killing people is NOT peaceful -- dumbasses!
Abi you will find the correct term for the pro russians is Donb-Asses
One man's "genocide" is another man's "collateral damage". Russians crying about genocide in Ukraine is the stupidest irony I have heard yet. Seems the Ukrainians have neither forgotten nor for given the Holdomor. And why should they? It should be shoved in the Russian's face every day.
If Putin wants to be the new Lenin and make Russia the new USSR let him, but let him do it in Russia and leave the rest of the world alone. And no my position has nothing to do with Obama or anyone else. It has to do with history. Virtually every people that live in lands bordering Russia from the Artic Ocean to the Baltic Sea to the Black Sea to the Caspian Sea and across central Asia have dreamed, fought, struggled and died to be free of the yoke of Russian imperialism be it in the form of Czar, commissars or now Putin's bureaucrats. They just want to be free and left the hell alone. Their attitude is if the ethnic Russians who live in our states want to be Russian nationals again let them pack their thing and go to Russia. There being used as political cudgels against the former Russian vassel states is no different than the way Hitler's tactics against Czechoslovakia and Poland in the 1930's.
Straight to the point comm, but do not forget, ZH is a division of RT, so a lot of pro-putin trolls post here.
Anywys, a plus from me.
ditto here mandea....there are some fucked up idiots that post here...not all by any stretch, but the drug addled dumbasses that just hate Jews, America and Freedom.
The quick down arrow to your comment proves your point.
Just read the comments every day my friend. A lot of the posters here love Putin, hate America, and really hate Jews...we are going down the road of the 1930's and many idiots here haven't a clue...
BTW, it is not only this site, but many others, especially the left wing (read = Communist) blogs, such as huffnpuffcompost.com and dailyshitkos.com, there are so many dumbasses out there it is ASTOUNDING.
Take it for what it is worth, my friend, we are headed for MUCH destruction, thanks to the Marxist/Islamaphobes of the world...
Fuck them all...Molon Labe, BITCHEZZZZZ!
I'd rather die a free man, than to live a slave to tyranny. So when the time comes, and it will, there is too much ignorance to go around, there will be NO SMILING FACE left alive. We have seen this story unfold before, and because many do not really know history, are doomed to repeat it.
The proof will be in the pudding mate, if you can stand the taste; it wont be pretty. So whoever downarrowed me, take your fucking quick down arrow and stuff it up your chuffer!
Thanks. I think history will record "trollism" as the psyco-political disease of the early 21st century. If you really want to see them freak out, tell them that fascism is a product of leftist politics just like communism is.
LOL, to FUCKING true!
@ Bugsquasher
&
@ Abi Normal
I'm right there with ya both !
I'm all in already, listening for the first shot.
See Ya on the other side.
Peace !
FlyinHigh
Amen Brother! Will stand shoulder to shoulder with Patriots, not the dumb asses who love Putin and the like!
Great post but I think that the Russian people were as much victims of Stalin as the Ukrainians.
And we do not believe in collective punishment or inherited guilt, do we? Of course not. Those ideas are totally unethical and immoral.
Carry on!
True that. And by the same measure many of the German and Austrian people were just as much victims of Hitler. The difference being that when Nazi Germany fell, trials were held and those that were captured were held to account. Many paid with their lives. We still persue them today. After the USSR fell there was no such accounting for their crimes of mass deportations, the Gulag and just plain old human slaughter on a massive scale. They in essence "got away with it" and now Putin wants to start all over. Someone has to say "NO!" Better to light a candle as the old saying goes. Better to say at least I spoke out than be held accountable for my silence when I knew better.
http://theeveningchronicle.blogspot.com/
Holodomor was organized by JEWS, the same jews, which organized also this kiling.
During holodomor have been killed russian kulaks indiscriminatelly the same way, like the ukrainian kulaks.
you ought learn some history sir.
I do know my history and I'd suggest you learn some proper English syntax. But meanwhile enjo your cubicle in Lubyanka.
One sentence more:
the complete east souoth terirtory of Ua is a RUSSIAN SOIL. it was attached to UA by a Jew Lenin (his mother's name: Blank, his Grandfather's name: Israel Blank) in 1919, to mix up the population of Ua.
Now the Russians have to suffer because of jewish imperializm?
Blaming all your problems on the Jews is the last refuge of the morally and intellectually bankrupt mind. But then the Russian peasant class has been doingit for hundreds of years, egged on by your oligarcical masters as a means of distracting you from their pillaging of wealth and souls.
What you think we westerners have forgotten that the Pogrom was a uniquely Russian invention? Neither have we forgotten that it was you Russians who exported the practice to Imperial OCCUPIED Poland. Hitler may have raised the practice of slaughtering Jews for the sake of slaughtering Jews to an art form but it's a political tactic a moral aberation that he learned from you Russians.
Jano
There are maps of Ukraine here from 1918 in several languages. Looking at them I cant agree
with your comment and Kiev Rus was there 700 years before
moscow, so there !
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=map+of+ukraine+1918&biw=1829&bih=910&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Q6-5U8jiIMWAywPVjoKwBA&sqi=2&ved=0CB8QsAQ
thanks for some of the interesting thoughts
its not about choosing sides
if you really know your enemy you would be more careful who you call a troll
there is plenty of blame to go around
I know, I know! You Russian's of ZH are mostly (if not entirely) Kremlin paid bloggers so why should I waste my time in reasoning with you? Good question and I get it. Here is my thinking:
You may be paid by the Kremlin but you still have brains and you still love Russia and want a better life for your fellow citizens. Being paid to blog does not make you idiots.
You folks know by now that the line about Russians being oppressed in Ukraine was all bullshit. You know by now that the idea that the Ukraine ouster of President Yanukovych was justified as that man was a thief, a coward and a Quisling. And you know by now that the Chocolate baron is no Adolf Hitler.
So I just ask you Russians of Zero Hedge to remember that your cousins in Ukraine were your allies just yesterday (so to speak).
The change in attitude occurred only because a short man mad for power decided to turn your most important long time natural ally into an enemy. Ukrainians were your comrades until Putin decided they were not.
That is it. Yes, yes...down vote me now. Long live Russia!
Well we have a quorum gents, a small one but still a quorum. I have been called a
US government troll (false) and a Putin hater which is pretty true for the fact he
is a dictator and a bully IMHO. I only have to fart in private to get the red arrows.
Ukraine wants to be a part of Europe and not be mired in russian corruption and why
do the majority on this board disapprove so much ? Is it anyone who is Obamas enemy
is our friend ? Putin will stand up to the banksters for us on ZH. Or is it the bad old USA
is totally to blame for this conflict ?
Why dont you boys get out a bit more instead of relying on internet data. Please more red arrows
Im trying to beat my old record. ( I bet you'll up me now saddos)
Sorry but I had to give you an up arrow on that one!
Sad Bug just sad :0
I will not allow you to beat my personal all time record of -34 to 4. Don't even try.
---
OK, I am getting my staff officer and several of my Langley buddies to up arrow you if you even get close. Cheney, Shrub, and Rumsfeld are in reserve if needed. You are playing with fire!
NV....already have, -72 to 3. The post about the new minister retaking
the crimea :) Grateful for all the help I can get.
Ukraine Army Assaults Lugansk: Airstrikes On Suburbs, Shelling Of Residential Areas
http://thenewsdoctors.com/?p=177533
Mainstream media channels won’t show you any of this footage. This is a war they don’t want you to see
http://www.globalresearch.ca/war-crimes-and-atrocities-committed-by-ukra...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-kievs-ticking-time-bomb/5390041