Guest Post: GUNS: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by $hane Obata and TRIGGER$

GUNS: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly

Gun ownership and gun control are very controversial topics. If more people own guns then will there be more violence and more crime? If everyone is allowed to own guns then will there be negative consequences? Both of these questions are debateable and each of them has its proponents and opponents.

In this article we’ll take a look at some interesting gun statistics from an objective viewpoint. The point is not to argue for or against gun ownership and or gun control. With that said, let’s look at the good, the bad, and the ugly gun statistics.

The Good

Gun ownership in America – as a percentage of households – has been in a shallow decline since 1960. In 1960 almost 50% of households had a gun. In 2010 that percentage was down to around 40%.

Furthermore, the rates of firearm homicide deaths and non-fatal firearm crimes have also been falling steadily. From 1981 to 2010 those rates fell 45 and 75%, respectively.

Lastly, the incidence of intentional homicides per 100,000 people is lower in the US than it is in many other countries.

h/t @wu_tang_finance

In sum, the rates of gun ownership and firearm homicides deaths and non-fatal firearm crimes have been in decline for a while. Furthermore, the intentional homicide rate in the US is relatively low.

The Bad

The homicide rate in the US is higher than it is in most other developed nations.

h/t @gunsenseUSA

Moreover, gun ownership per 100 people is higher in the US than it is anywhere else in the world.

h/t @wu_tang_finance

Unfortunately, mass shooting casualties continue to be a problem for the US.

Homicide and gun ownership rates are down in the US, but relative to other countries, they’re still high.

In addition, annual mass shooting casualties are on the rise.

The Ugly

Spending on guns and ammo has risen with the gini ratio – a statistical measure of income inequality.

source: www.bloombergbriefs.com

it’s also interesting to note that violent crimes are often committed by the same perpetrators.

If the US wants to reduce the incidence of violent crime then it should shift its focus away from incarceration / punishment…

…to treatment, rehabilitation, and prevention.

There’s no two ways about it – guns are dangerous.

That said, it’s not a question of “how many guns are out there?” – it’s a question of who’s holding them.

We live in a reactionist society. Often times, we don’t deal with important issues until we have to. If we can take a more proactive stance and concentrate on preventing gun crimes, on reducing the number of repeat offenders, and on the rehabilitation and reintegration of criminals into society then it’s likely that the rate of firearm homicides and the financial burden associated with incarceration would fall.

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Tue, 07/08/2014 - 21:09 | 4937840 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

After watching the obviously fake Sandy Hook Hoax, and the ensuing hysterical attempt to demonize guns, gun owners, and gun ownership, I just don't give a fuck anymore.

 

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 21:11 | 4937861 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

I bought one of those faux barking dog alarms that sing jingle bells. 

Honey, we are safe. Woof woof woof....woof woof woof...woof woof woof woof woof. 

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 21:13 | 4937873 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Fight crime, shoot back.

 

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 21:23 | 4937909 economics9698
economics9698's picture

We can see from Iraq what happens when the population is disarmed and the cops disappear.  Politics aside how would have Iraq been different if every truck driver and shop owner had a 9 mm and used it? 

Don’t be stupid, own a gun, clean it, shoot it, and practice with it.  If every average Joe had a gun asshole bad guys would be dead bad guys.

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 21:30 | 4937944 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

 "You see in this world, there's two kinds of people my friend, those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig."

RIP Eli Wallach
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0908919/?ref_=tt_cl_t1 

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 21:38 | 4937985 RevRex
RevRex's picture

ARM UP AND RESIST!

 

 

Get a pressure canner too....

 

 

you can preserve non acidic foods that way....

Wed, 07/09/2014 - 00:53 | 4938501 rehypothecator
rehypothecator's picture

Most of the mass shootings are in locales where people aren't allowed to carry guns for their own protection, e.g. schools and malls posted to prohibit firearms. If those shootings are removed from the total, America looks a lot better than it already does.  

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 21:49 | 4938034 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

My wife has essentially zero weapon/gun/firearm/pistol/whatever experience. I have been patiently working on nudging her towards learning the basics. We rented a pistol (9mm) at a range and after some basic coaching was doing pretty good, but the inital noise/recoil was a barrier.

So, let's shoot .22!

Wrong!

If you want a tin foil hat theory on .22, its because its the best way for a new individual to get the "gun experience" with out the recoil and without so much noise. It takes a while to desensatize to those things so that larger calibers can be practiced with and enjoyed.

I finally had to hit up my old man (retired) for a brick of .22! Then we got into the whole "shipping ammo" drama ...

Regards,

Cooter

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 22:31 | 4938161 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

Let me ask a couple of questions.

How does an entity that was not a party to the US Constitution and only has 18 delegated powers, regulate my right to firearms?

How does this same entity, which has usurped all of the Bill of Rights, continue unabated in its further destruction of the Constitutional Republic upon which it once stood?

One Word, APATHY!

The Bill of Rights is like a muscle, if they're not used, they atrophy from the non-use.

Exercise your rights in some form or fashion every chance you get!!!

DaddyO

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 22:21 | 4938166 SumTing Wong
SumTing Wong's picture

We've found air rifles or air pistols with the .177 caliber does the same thing in getting people used to a gun. There is zero recoil, and they can enjoy shooting pellets time and again. And those things are really cheap.

Gander Mountain had 22LR for sale on its website a couple of times to do, but it was always gone when I tried to order. Luckily I was one of the nutjobs that stocked up. We're still shooting target practice here.

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 23:55 | 4938368 snr-moment
snr-moment's picture

If you can severely restrict 22lr for, say, 6 years, you'll knock out 50% of future target shooters.  At least, that's what they think.  People still get interested as they get older.  That's where we need to push.

 

owned by abc.

 

 

Oh yeah:

The Good

Gun ownership in America – as a percentage of households – has been in a shallow decline since 1960. In 1960 almost 50% of households had a gun. In 2010 that percentage was down to around 40%.

 

That's the "good"

Wed, 07/09/2014 - 08:18 | 4938860 TrumpXVI
TrumpXVI's picture

Yup.....and, yup.

That article is clearly a pro-gun control orientated article.

And it is also wrong on some of the basic facts.  The most rigorous analysis of the "More Guns, Less Crime" argument is put forth in the book by the same name by, John Lott.

Wed, 07/09/2014 - 13:23 | 4940173 Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

Most of the violent crime correlates to specific demographics. Study the DOJ and FBI Uniform Crime Reports data to discover those demographic characteristics.

Forward (over the cliff)!

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 22:36 | 4938207 Deathrips
Deathrips's picture

I bought Mrs RIPS a .357 SW for a present years back. She had never shot before. She hated it in .357.

After that .38, 9mm and .22 are her favorite. Shes a hell of a shot.

 

I got the .357 back too.

 

Shoot big first..then go smaller.

 

:)

RIPS

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 23:06 | 4938300 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Gee.. a 9mm is a .45 set on “stun”, but I think it is ideal to get used to a bit more power.

The trick is to start out with a large frame and comfy grip like the Beretta 92.

It's the smaller frames that exacerbate the control problem.. I have a little .32 revolver and a .380 auto that are markedly harder to control and more punishing on the hand.

Interestingly, I believe more people are shot with .22’s each year than with any other caliber (mostly criminal/gang related) , not that you would want to carry that caliber for personal defense.

(This is just for fun – NOT indicative of the seriousness of carrying)

Wed, 07/09/2014 - 05:21 | 4938648 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

I agree completely!  Except I'll take my old (1989) Taurus PT92 over the Beretta cause I can't take that slide mounted safety which is also a major complaint from its military users.

But I have found a lot more women who love shooting revolvers instead of semi-autos because the recoil is just one bump instead of the "bang-bing-bonk" recoil you get with a slide slamming back and forth.

Wed, 07/09/2014 - 05:47 | 4938651 Frankie Carbone
Frankie Carbone's picture

You don't know what you are talking about. 9 mm can be as lethal, or even more lethal than a 45 ACP, but with less recoil (more control) and 2x the magazine capacity. 

Give me a Springfield xDM with either Buffalo Bore or Corbon +P 115g hollowpoints and I'll go up against the Jack O'Connor theory anyday of the week. 

I own both calibers and almost never carry the 45, even though it's a fine caliber. Not knocking it. But your statement is mythological, and factually incorrect. 45 ACP is NOT the gold standard for personal defense as most people think it is, although I would definitely put it in the top-4 or top-5. 

When I carry, it's usually the gold standard round for one shot threat stops: 357 mag with Federal 357B 125 gr JHP. That's in a hammerless SP101, which is snubby so it's now for the feint of heart. Yeah, 2.75" barrel - reduced muzzled velocity, mean wrist flip. I know. But I don't plan on a 20, 30 foot encounter. The vast majority of firearms-related self defense situations are very up front and personal. It's not going to be the gun range distance, that's for sure. That round though, in a GP100, is going to smoke any other caliber in lethality, given similar shot placement. That's just a fact. 45 isn't even close. 

And I pray that I never have to fight a shot in anger. Who the hell would want the legal headache and that sitting on their conscious? 

If I feel the need for a semi-auto it's the XDm 9 mm with Corbon +P's. 19 plus one in the pipe. 

9 mm is NOT a 45 on stun. The kinetic energy of a 115 grain +P has a kinetic energy of 450 ft-lbs. The average 230 gr 45 ACP has 415-430 on average. 

If the "big hole theory" is so valid then why is the Federal .357B the gold standard for handgun lethality in SD situations?  

The 45 ACP is a fine caliber and you can't go wrong with choosing it (I own one). But to call the 9 mm basically a pea shooter is a bunch of crap. The only true advantage the 45 ACP has is in cold weather situations, where the 45 can carry 230 gr ball, which can more effectively penetrate thick outerwear and still do considerable damage to the threat. That's it. But then I am considering the 357 again with semi-wadcutters in that scenario. 

Ohh, 3rd carry option? 380 ACP with alternating Buffalo Barnes JHP and Buffalo Bore Cast Hardball. Still beats a punch in the face and packs a whallop better than the average 38 SP. True the 45 is more effective than this, but even a subcompact is large compared to my LCP and when I want to "go light", this combo is pretty fucking deadly in its own right for close-up, face to face (mugging, carjacking) encounters. A cast hardball in the chest cavity or ocular region is going to put someone down. 

I will always challenge the "45 is better" or worse, "the 45 is best" myth when I see it, if only so that new shooters don't fall into that trap when they can get an equally lethal option that has more capacity, and far more importantly, much greater controllability and compactness than the 45. 

Smaller, lighter = more likely to carry. 

Wed, 07/09/2014 - 06:11 | 4938677 StormShadow
StormShadow's picture

9mm ammo has improved considerably over the years. I would not feel at all undergunned carrying a 9, I just choose not to. I prefer .45 for two reasons 1) 9mm may expand but .45 will not shrink 2) talk to any WWII veteran who used his 1911 in anger--to a man they will tell you it's a one shot stopper. I also own a snubby 357. In the right circumstances its a great gun and I do carry it some. However, the noise, concussion, and night blindness caused by its firing erases much if its admitted ft/lb advantage, particularly from a short barrel. And God forbid I had to take a longer shot with it (I agree statistically that is not as likely as a bad breath distance encounter). If an active shooter scenario develops while I'm dining with my family or at the mall I'm far more interested in putting a shot on target quickly to change the guy's mind about continuing his rampage than I am with whether I kill him with the first round. Shot placement is the key and the key to shot placement is the correct gun for the shooter's abilities and regular professional training and practice.

Wed, 07/09/2014 - 19:59 | 4941464 Frankie Carbone
Frankie Carbone's picture

Agreed on the snubby. 9 mm is my first choice out in the afternoon to evening precisely because with Fed 357B's it's like staring into the sun after a night shot. But like I explained below, it's a great fit for me and it packs one hell of a whallop for its size. 

Noise doesn't bother me, and can be an advantage in some cases as it scares the shit out of friends that have stood next to me when I've popped a few rounds off. 

Disagree with the accuracy issue. That gun is much more accurate that you think. Maybe it's just not "your gun", but that SP is an extension of my arm. 

PS. I have tried reduced muzzle flash Buffalo Bore's and they seriously reduce flash. But lately I have had a tough time finding them. Buffalo Bore makes GREAT ammo IMO. 

Wed, 07/09/2014 - 15:55 | 4940718 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Oh, for crying out loud, that was a  joke.

My CCW is a Glock 23 .40 SW in a pancake holster or my Ruger LCP .380 Auto for the pocket when fashion dictates.

..and I do not underestimate the 9mm.. I have a few and they are actually my favorites.. outside my stainless 1911 with the internal Laserlite.

Wed, 07/09/2014 - 19:54 | 4941443 Frankie Carbone
Frankie Carbone's picture

Sorry, it's often hard to gauge intent from written word as it is in normal conversation. My apologies. It just came off, to me at least, and I guess I was wrong, that I was encountering the Jack O'Conner fanatic Club, if you know what I mean, where every caliber except the 45 ACP bascially sucks. 

45 is a fine caliber, which is why I own one. It's just not my first carry choice. I prefer the 9 over the 45 (actually I am 357 during the day, 9 in the evening, and 380 when I have lug something around for a while - That's because the previous poster is right. The muzzle flash of the snubby with a full throated 357B is blinding... and I have shot thousands of those rounds to get a good handle on the muzzle flip). 

So I carry the 9 in the evening, because I want control. Ironically, my control over the SP101 with full bang 125's is amazing, due to practice and "just chemistry with the piece" as others who have shot it have looked at me and said "what the %$%#$ is wrong with you! That's gonna break your wrist and the perp will beat you to death with your own gun. - But all that practice, and that "natural fit"....

It shows you that provided the caliber, loading, and bullet choice are sufficient, the best gun is the one that you shoot best. 

That's why I didn't knock the 45. It's a great gun overall, and thee great gun in an arsenal for many just as my little wristbreaker SP101 is a "great gun" for ME. 

So again, apologies. 

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 21:55 | 4938063 BobTheSlob
BobTheSlob's picture

Love that flick!

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 22:01 | 4938093 pakled
pakled's picture

"RIP Eli Wallach"

 

His best role IMHO

 

Wallach (reading note): See you soon..  I.... Idi....

Eastwood: Idiot

Wallach: Hmm?

Eastwood: It's for you.

 

 

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 22:11 | 4938134 10mm
10mm's picture

You gonna shoot, shoot. You gonna talk, talk.

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 22:19 | 4938158 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

if we just moved chicago to canada..then canada would have a high rate of gun crime, come on canada take detroit and philly and that garden spot camden NJ ah heck take the whole state of NJ too. and then you would be number 1 for gun homicides. thats racissst.

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 22:46 | 4938239 25or6to4
25or6to4's picture

Overmed
Or take DC, Baltimore, LA, Norfolk VA, or and city with a population of enlightened minorities. Europe and Canada not quite there YET, but they are working on it.

Wed, 07/09/2014 - 00:07 | 4938428 Manthong
Tue, 07/08/2014 - 22:25 | 4938178 pakled
pakled's picture

OR...

 

"When you pull a gun, kill a man"

- Walter Brennan, as Old man Clanton, in 'My Darling Clementine'.

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 22:16 | 4938147 dock3511
Tue, 07/08/2014 - 22:21 | 4938169 pakled
pakled's picture

Blooooooooooondie!!!!

Wed, 07/09/2014 - 00:18 | 4938449 NickVegas
NickVegas's picture

You stole my line. lol.

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 22:06 | 4938113 Mr. Mandelbrot
Mr. Mandelbrot's picture

What gets me is the charade of gun control (background checks, etc.) promoted through the mainstream media for the consumption of the non-gunowners.  Case in point: www.armslist.com?  We are legally allowed to buy, sell, and trade guns as individuals as if they are baseball cards.  Of course (and rightly so), it is illegal to sell a gun to someone you know is a felon or otherwise not legally allowed to own guns, but as I understand the law (I'm in Alabama) there is no legal burden for the seller to do a background check on one they are selling the gun to.  In other words, if I've just met you and show you my shiny new toy and you like it so much you make me a nice cash offer on the spot, we can make an old fashioned exchange and move on our merry ways.  For the media to even talk about "background checks" is deceptive because it acts like there is not this real and perfectly legal face to face market that exists outside of the dealer network that is burdened with calling in and checking an individual when selling them a gun.  How stupid is that?  Why even burden the dealers with it when non-eligible gun owners will just buy off of individuals on www.gunbroker.com or www.armslist.com?  It's a damn stupid charade . . .

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 22:51 | 4938251 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

They want to shut down person to person. That's the point.

At the same time, they are making it more mind bending and complex to be an FFL. Do an FFL search for your area. You'll see the numbers are down.i gave up mine because I just got too nervous about what little nit picky thing I'd forget would put me in hot water with BATFE. It was just a question of, is it worth it? Either have a full time compliance Attorney or risk having my ass resized in a Fed pen? Fuck all that.

Squeeze both ends. See how that works?

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 23:30 | 4938369 Thanatos
Thanatos's picture

Yep,

They shut down that p2p Heroin trade a while back.

Guess they forgot to tell the junkies.

It'll all go dark once the squeezing gets too intense.

Just like everything else: the price could go up, but availability will not be in question.

 

 

 

Wed, 07/09/2014 - 00:13 | 4938444 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

All the purchases of either rifles or pistols I have made through GunBroker required that a party holding a FFL completed the transaction. The FFL in turn had to submit the info for a bckground check before the gun was delivered to me. When selling a gun, I am required to ship it through a FFL after getting a fax'd copy of his or her license.

 

Of course I am not buying or selling guns for criminal purposes.  Obviously if I were I would be buying my guns on the street corner from another crook who stole them in the first place.

 

So, at the end of the day, the non-criminal has to put up with the added nuisance and cost while the crook does not.

Wed, 07/09/2014 - 07:23 | 4938747 carlnpa
carlnpa's picture

Mandel - correction

Firearms off of Gunbroker/Armslist require by federal law shipment to an FFL for transfer and background check.

Many/most states require a background check for handguns, even individual face to face in same state.

 

Wed, 07/09/2014 - 09:59 | 4939251 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Ignorance must be bliss.

That ANYONE was dumb enough to buy into that display of ignorance demonstrates just how easily the feeble minds of the sheeple can be manipulated to do the bidding of the propagandists.

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 22:27 | 4938188 Freddie
Freddie's picture

+1

Meanwhile, our borders are invaded and no one is doing a damn thing to stop it.  Some Americans are down there trying.  

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 21:24 | 4937915 SoberOne
SoberOne's picture

Just got back from the range; my sister did great for her first time!

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 21:40 | 4937993 RevRex
RevRex's picture

You misogynist pig. "boath party's hour the sane and Busch did it two"

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 21:52 | 4938045 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

WTF are you saying ... ? An insult followed by incoherent "blathering" in quotes. Did I miss a movie or a meme?

Regards,

Cooter

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 22:00 | 4938091 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

The meds must be kickin' in...

DaddyO

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 23:40 | 4938391 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

I think RevRex is the reincarnation of the late StarTedStackin', the guy who used to bash libertarians in almost every single post.

Excuse me, I mean "libertardians" — right, Ted?

Wed, 07/09/2014 - 03:55 | 4938618 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

I'm thinking McMolotov, Wanna play with me?

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 21:25 | 4937918 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Utterly disappointing "red meat" gun article.

Next time let's do one on knife ownership and stabbings.

Or car ownership and vehicular homicides.

Or number of McDonalds per capita and obesity.

Ooo... how about let's drag China into this and do one on air pollution and cancer rates.

Maybe numbrer of sunny days vs. suicide rates.

Really, how about we get where this article won't go.... how many nut bags on psycho-active meds who commit mass-shootings?

 

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 21:29 | 4937936 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

<< I bought one of those faux barking dog alarms >>

 

I just walk my wife over to the door and let her bark. She's had alot of practice.

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 21:45 | 4938015 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

I open the door and let them see my wife's face without makeup, bed-head hair, the whole 9 yards.  They usually hand me THEIR cash, give their condolances for my situation and move on.

 

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 21:51 | 4938038 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Reviewing my bug out plan. I have come to the realization that I cannot fit all the PMs, guns, ammo, survival rats, dog and wife in the 4WD.

One of these has to go.. I figure it’s has to be either the dog or the wife.

I am conflicted.

Tue, 07/08/2014 - 22:04 | 4938104 pakled
pakled's picture

You'll work it out brother...

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