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WTF Headline Of The Day: Blythe Masters' Ex-Husband Launches Offshored Bitcoin Hedge Fund
Submitted by Mike Krieger of Liberty Blitzkrieg,
Blythe Masters is perhaps the most maligned human being on earth by silver investors due to suspicions of JP Morgan’s manipulation in the silver market. Well she’s back in the news, but it has nothing to do with silver. Rather, the news relates to the fact that her ex-husband and commodities traders, Daniel Masters, has just launched a Bitcoin hedge fund from the island of Jersey, a British Crown dependency.
We learn from Newsweek that:
Daniel Masters, a 50-year-old veteran commodities trader, started working for some of the largest companies in the world right out of university, trading in London, New York and Zug, Switzerland, for JPMorgan Chase and Phibro before moving on to the New York Mercantile Exchange, a short walk from Wall Street. By all appearances, it was your standard Wall Street career.
Then, in 2008, he moved to a tiny island off the coast of France called Jersey, which this week opened its doors to the island’s first fully regulated Bitcoin hedge fund—run by none other than Masters himself—as part of a push to create a nascent Silicon Valley in the heart of the English Channel, replete with government-funded entrepreneurial hubs and startup accelerators.
No sooner did word of the offshore Bitcoin fund get out than Reddit spluttered to life, devoting two pages, here and here, to debating whether the virtual currency’s baby steps into the institutional investing realm is really good news or bad news for Bitcoin, whose meteoric rise has thus far been mostly successful in eschewing traditional finance.
Masters, co-principal of Global Advisors Jersey Ltd.—which trades up to $2 billion of energy and equities—is the latest of a handful of fund managers trotting out new Bitcoin investment funds in recent months, as investors clamor for innovative ways to skim the froth off the digital currency’s impressive, if often unpredictable, price pops and drops and, occasionally, collapses.
He believes Bitcoin’s prices will stabilize as the currency and technology mature—similar to what has happened over the past decade with oil—but in the meantime, he estimates the value of Bitcoin could rise to $2,000 or more. “Right now, Bitcoin has about 1,000 percent annualized volatility,” he says. “Compare that to oil at 15 to 20 percent and stocks at 10 to 15 percent.” In other words, the potential upside, in the eyes of an experienced trader, are too appealing to resist.
Speaking from CoinSummit in London, Simon Hamblin, CEO of Netagio, a year-old U.K. company that specializes in secure Bitcoin storage and is a custodian for the Bitcoin fund being launched by Masters, says any fund must take numerous precautions to guard against the loss of Bitcoins. “We keep our Bitcoin in cold storage, in different forms both physical and media, and always keep it offline, heavily encrypted and in multiple locations,” he told Newsweek.
This week, Netagio, based in the Isle of Man—a Crown dependency, like Jersey—announced the debut of a London-based Bitcoin exchange that will allow individuals to trade Bitcoin against the British pound and gold. Netagio spun off this spring from Jersey’s GoldMoney Network Ltd., which stores $1.4 billion of metals in five undisclosed locations for clients across Europe.
I covered GoldMoney’s move into Bitcoin earlier this year in the post: GoldMoney Adds Bitcoin to its Suite of Services.
Hamblin, who says he stumbled into finance from a more technical field, sees Bitcoin as the “perfect merger between technology and finance.”
Masters, the former spouse of another commodities kingpin—JPMorgan Chase’s recently departed global head of commodities, Blythe Masters—says the Jersey Bitcoin fund will target up to $200 million in Bitcoin investments in the first six months to a year and ramp up from there. The fund went through a yearlong approval process via the island’s regulator, the Jersey Financial Services Commission, which offers a more streamlined process than New York and London do, Masters says. He adds, “In Jersey, you have one person playing sheriff instead of a dozen.”
“Imagine being able to walk into a car dealership, scan your phone over the price tag of the vehicle you want, and, in an instant, you’ve paid, you’ve updated your car’s ownership information, insurance, vehicle registration,” Masters says. “You jump in the car, you drive off, you never have to speak to a single person.” Because a Bitcoin wallet can be attached to inanimate objects, as well as carried on phones, the possibilities are endless, he says.
“Finance is one of the few industries that is still in need of a disruption,” he told Newsweek.
He’s exactly right. All year, I have maintained that Bitcoin was unlikely to make a major move higher until the summer. Well summer is here, and whether you like it or not, Wall Street is moving in.
Full article here.
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hehehehe.......... bye bye Bitcoin
bye bye Bitcoin
Nah, but it sure doesn't help!
That just confirms the FACT that buttcoin is just another Rothschild ponzi designed to lure the idiotic sheeple away from REAL money (PMs).
ah he just wanted access to jersey- the home of the crown pedophelia crowd.
Is fonestar in heaven with Satoshi?
No he's in hell.
Has to do with all that false idol crap.
Can't have anything else before god and all, not even satoshi.
Just one soul at a time, no need to hurry, just one soul at a time.
No actual bitcoins will be needed in the formation of this hedge fund.
It will be made of pure ponzi vacuum.
Bitcoin is going to six and seven figures. If you don't understand how or why, you don't understand the concept of fiat going to zero.
While I'm not a BTC cheerleader, I don't think that some slimeball trying to capitalize on it automatically means that BTC is a tool of the devil.
Hey Blythe, Fuck you too Bitch!!!
I bet the lady can lick a clean ass hole while playing a mean trambone
Somebody needs to invent a "Labor Default Swap".
Get paid to do some work but don't do it; and get paid anyway.
We could call it a "Main Street Financial Innovation." ™
"SFI". Yes, has a ring to it.
at least her ex husband is not too late at the party...
Ok then. Paper bitcoin futures. A new way to puke the price.
I wonder if they will buy a single bitcoin to back them. And I doubt they will show any proof to the blockchain of having them.
Wonder what kind of noises she makes..
Today's phrase is: "Government-funded Entreprenuer".
If BitCoin is mined using computer power, who has the most?
Just asking.
As a company, some guys in Iceland I think. As a mining pool, Ghash.io
Good question. And here's a 2 minutes answer from a guy who hates the state as much as average zerohedger: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWTQgmCuiCw&t=10
NSA?
I see a G-job.
yeah. given his 'ex' status ... it could just be revenge hedging.
"Bitcoin: Going From Deceptive to Disruptive"
http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterdiamandis/2014/06/23/my-insights-on-bit...
The level of ignorance on ZH about Bitcoin is depressing, I mean they can't even get the basic facts straight.
I know it's not gold. They don't take bitcoins in Zimbabwe.....that's all I need to know.
What the naysayers on ZH and many if not most libertarians don't understand is that "virtual and digital currencies can challenge the sovereignty of states":
http://cointelegraph.com/news/112015/ireland-central-bank-official-admit...
That's right, Bitcoin and altcoins stand to be the most disruptive technology since the nation-state came of age in the 13th century, having not only signed its death warrant but that of the global banking cartel and thus banking as we know it. And those who live for this glorious day, as any libertarian worthy of the name must, will therefore do well to understand what Bitcoin is, how it works, and why, in a matter of a few short years, it is going to empower humanity as never before:
http://www.visualcapitalist.com/how-bitcoin-can-and-will-disrupt-financi...
Read up on Fitts' concerns RE digital currencies. Bitcoin is just a prototype of what the Elites want. It is entirely traceable and has embedded in it a history of who had it and what it bought and where it's been used since that Bitcoin was created. It is the control freak's wet dream. Naive libertarian types think this means freedom from oppressive nation states. But this assumes anonymity on the web. There is no such thing. The internet itself is a creature of DARPA/The Pentagon, and there is nothing there that can be hidden if TPTB want it disclosed. The backbone itself is "owned" and compromised, let alone all the backdoors software and hardware manufacturers create to satisfy the demands of the surveillance state. If everyone jumps into Bitcoin, and it works, the Elites will kill it and then bring in their own substitute system, or just take over Bitcoin itself if that is preferred. Blythe's comments regarding the "ease" of a car sale because your identity is embedded in the bitcoin and several other online seamlessly integrated data bases is fucking chilling. I'll wait the few hours and stand in line at the DMV if that is what it takes to maintain a firewall or two of personal privacy.
As of 7/13/2014, 7 months after the author's initial article, GoldMoney still has NOT ventured into Bitcoin. I wonder why....
For all its power, the world's network of nation-states and its overarching central banking cartel are a hornet's nest of competing elites, each conspiring to exploit this or that territorial monopoly on the use of force (the minimal definition of the state) to its advantage. But as George Washington openly admitted, the state "is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force." And as force, no matter how "the best and the brightest" might serve it, is ultimately just a blunt instrument, it is accordingly stupid. So to assume, as you do, that this network constitutes a Grand Conspiracy that has total control over the planet is to grant it powers that it simply does not have. On the contrary, as the network self-destructs on account of its internal contradictions (e.g., money issued as debt), it more openly reveals that it is but a hammer in search of nails that it will stop at nothing to hit (e.g., bank bail-ins).
Conversely, as individuals in voluntary cooperation (aka society) become increasingly empowered by technology (left alone, society would have created the Internet long before the state did), the balance of power eventually tips in their favor, as it now has.
So wallow as you will in the defeatism of your Grand Conspiracy, the fact is that the time is not far off when the common man will be committing revlutionary acts by simply going about his daily business, Bitcoin/altcoins having become such smart money that the state will be reduced to a sideshow in its pathetic search for nails to hit.
Until then, the state can, as always, kiss my ass.
I have no doubt that the State(s) will bungle. But they will have enough knowledge and control to be very dangerous, especially to select targets. I see that you are an optimist. Good for you. I will certainly be happy if all ends well for us. But I just don't see the "singularity" proving too successful as the attempt to merge man and machine continues. Look at our species. We aren't ready for off planet activities. In fact, we aren't even ready for plane travel, in my opinion. IOW, the dark/sadist side of technology will prevail for quite some time yet, until the broader condition/orientation of humanity improves. Of course, that is "just" my opinion. In any event, I hope you don't lose your shirt in Bitcoin. May it rise to infinity as the USD goes to zero. :) I like what fonestar and dochenrollingbear (or whatever his handle is) recommended, which is to have a very small portion of ones assets (5% or less) invested in Bitcoin just for daily transactions. Peace.
hmm maybe another John Law.
gh0atrider has noticed a lot of people are really stupid. For example, they believe everything digital was started by NSA.
Gho ride a ghoat .
I ran into him a couple of weeks back in a Youtube comment section. He was using his original name and avatar fromm ZH. Youtube must be his new playground.
I gave him a taste of his own medicine by reply to his non bitcoin comment with a "praise Satoshi"!
gh0atrider = fonestar 2.0
Is fonestar in heaven with Satoshi?
gh0atrider is with you! And also with you!
Do Androids Dream Of Electric gh0ats?
The Men Who Ride Gh0ats
algh0ats
palmer, TeamD, gh0at
+1's for merry dialog.
ghoatfucker=fonefucker
I wonder if Dimon got throat cancer from going down on Masters.
No..he got it from the Wookie, at one of Bath house's banker parties, its how he earned the cufflinks...so they say
That might require the wookie to have an actual vagina
Why?? Cause Jamie woud'nt go down on a Transgender...lol
Jamie would go down on a snake if he could get his lips close enough to the ground.
JD is a cumbag...how do you think he got so rich...hard work..lol
The Jackass is saying his reported cancer is fabricated to give him a graceful way out since so many in the industry are..suiciding.
"Awwe com'on..we all know its Herpes..shees"
Joan Rivers
". . . how do you think he got so rich"
Starting at the bottom?
"We make money the old fashion way . . ." -- the world's oldest profession.
There's a backstory there, IIRC. Can you share links?
Here’s some background:
http://www.vice.com/read/the-journalist-who-was-banned-from-investigating-jerseys-child-abuse
One would hope that their financial regulatory standards are more credible and transparent than their judiciary, press and child protection services.
I guess The Island of Dr. Moreau was unavailable to host this venture.
If anyone registers a finacial entity in Jersey, you can be absolutely sure it's shady as fuck.
Do some research.
GoldMoney is registered in Jersey. Several credible financial types (Catherine Austin Fitts, Chris Martenson, Franklin Sanders, etc.) say GoldMoney is about as transparent and accountable as you can get in this industry. I recall that being incorporated in Jersey gives GoldMoney greater political independence from the increasingly insolvent and corrupt sovereign nation states of the world. Please respond if you have links to dirt on Jersey or GoldMoney. From their About page:
Organisation
GoldMoney is a profitable, privately owned company without any debt, so its financial position is sound. Its books are regularly audited by a Big 4 accounting firm, and its shareholders are focused on ensuring the long-term safety and security of its customers’ assets.
GoldMoney is owned by well-established investors, including IAMGOLD (one of the 10 largest Canadian gold mining companies) and Eric Sprott, Founder & Chairman of Sprott Asset Management. Other notable shareholders include Doug Casey, Chairman of Casey Research, and David Tice, Founder of the Prudent Bear Fund. The Turk family is also a major shareholder.
Location
GoldMoney's main office is located in Jersey, in the British Channel Islands. Jersey is a British crown dependency situated in the English Channel near the north-western tip of France. GoldMoney's website and database servers, also located in Jersey, are housed in a secure, state-of-the-art data centre.
Regulation
GoldMoney is regulated by the Jersey Financial Services Commission (JFSC). The JFSC is the main supervisory body that oversees and regulates Jersey's large financial services industry.
Jersey enjoys a global reputation as an important financial centre. It has achieved this position with its well-developed financial and professional services infrastructure, a legal system based mainly on English common law, and a stable political environment. Jersey's data privacy laws also meet a high standard. GoldMoney in all respects operates within the legal framework and the data privacy regulations applicable in Jersey.
GoldMoney is registered with the JFSC as a Money Service Business, and its regulated status can be confirmed by searching for 'Net Transactions Limited' on the JFSC website's regulated entities search page: www.jerseyfsc.org/money_service_business/regulated_entities/index.asp
GoldMoney's registration certificates can be viewed in our Certificates & Reports section.
SATOSHI WE LOVE YOU!!
I was thinking the same thing Jersey is infamous. Mass graves all over the place, a true "House of Usher"
Why? Because there's something holy about gold that makes it suitable as money while Bitcoin isn't? Both of them, due to their monetary use, are priced way higher than their "inherent value", so if you consider that a "ponzi" then "PMs" are just as big of a ponzi. The difference is that Bitcoin can be stored so that guys with guns can't confiscate it (and for free too I might add), while Gold is always vulnerable to confiscation, unless you back it up with guns of your own (thereby costing money).
Are you saying bitcoins can't be confiscated?
Not if they are properly protected.
LOL, truly. If it's digital it can go "poof". You are truly deluding yourself.
Ahem. Google "paper wallet", aka the right way to store large amounts of bitcoins in safe, secure, redundant, and encrypted manner.
Educate yourself. Adapt or die.
Mathematics will outlive this planet.
but...but...math is HARD!
Unless Quantum Computing allows all classic encryption to be broken in seconds ...
Right now it takes about a week to break a single SHA256 key using a Quantum computer. The reality is that type of computing power won't be at this point be used against undermining the network but if the encryption is ever broken all the coins are basically worthless and so is the blockchain. Bitcoin opened the door and is first to market but over the long term it will lose out to more secure coins/blockchains and more complex encryption algorithms. We are still early in the game though. Wait until everyone is using quantum computers.
> "Right now it takes about a week to break a single SHA256 key using a Quantum computer."
Source? oh yeah, your...
They do it now at universities...
The specs are out there in the domain of public knowledge.
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/6021/bitcoin-is-not-quantum-safe-and-how-we-c...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shor%27s_algorithm
Sure, quantum computing will pose challenges for Bitcoin. You made the claim that a SHA-256 key has already been broken. Not only that but it only takes a week. This I call bullshit on.
Bitcoin won't be supplanted, since if SHA256 becomes obsolete, they can just hard fork and continue with the new crypto.
The blockchain itself with its record would be hard to tamper with the history, since lots of people have a copy and can look at it as human beings and agree at which point tampering occured and revert to that point.
As for Quantum Computing, there are maybe 3 D-Wave machines out there and they are no where near optimized.
if the encryption is ever broken all the coins are basically worthless and so is the blockchain
If the Fed does QE too many times then the money we use to by toilet paper will be worth-less.
Pick your poison.
Crypto-currencies are consumer created and driven plus it is also an eco-system. There are plenty of other currencies plus the technology is constantly evolving. Paper money not so much. You have plenty of options, for example X11 coins use 11 different hashing algorithms to create them through the mining process. The market will ultimately decide who the winners and losers are over time.
Bro, how'd you like to get in on a ground floor opportunity that could set you up for life? We are about to take our company public and you could get in on the action. What do we do? We are bitbull breeders. What is a bitbull? A bitbull is an online (imaginary) pitbull which guards your bitcoins from theft or other defilement....
I disagree. I would state the opposite. If its digital on the internet it can't go "poof". Talk to any number of young girls that have had something uploaded. Or polititions.
I disagree. I would state the opposite. If its digital on the internet it can't go "poof". Talk to any number of young girls that have had something uploaded. Or polititions.
You do realize that there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of copies of the blockchain, right?
Any even that destroys every single one of those copies ends human life at the same time.
Might as well complain that gold can be transmuted by high energy particle collisions.
Tmosely - you can't believe 1st mover advantage lasts forever.
Bitcoin can adapt any advantages that a new coin develops, so how would a new coin overtake it?
Gold currently has first mover advantage as store of value. Perhaps that won't last forever? It already lost advantage for means of exchange...
First mover advantage does last forever when it can't be stolen and loans can be issued against it. Once bitcoin overcomes fiat the only way to stop it would be a massive campaign to violently force people to stop using it, or to suddenly hold all contracts negotiated in bitcoin (or all contracts of any kind) unenforceable. Even then, Bitcoin can only be replaced if a signficantly better alternative is provided. Why? Because once collateral starts being placed on Bitcoin debt, Bitcoin is guaranteed to be worth at least as much as that collateral, since the owner of that collateral provides guaranteed future demand for Bitcoin until the value of his or her obligations in Bitcoin exceeds that of the collateral. Once fractional reserve banking kicks in (and traditional finance is already getting seeping into bitcoin, its only a matter of time until fractional reserve banking works its way in) then thats tons of layers of collateral on any bitcoin in existance. Since Bitcoin can't be printed to bail borrowers out, the demand is guaranteed to preserve the price of bitcoin effectively forever, until the contracts involving the collateral are declared void.
Hell, this effect of collateral propping up the value of a currency is the only reason why $ has ANY value right now. But unlike BTC, $ can and is printed at an arbitrary rate, so borrowers can be bailed out, and there is no lower bound on the value of the currency.
As best I understand it, which may not be extensively, bitcoin is hugely more difficult to confiscate than gold.
You can't escape capital controls at the airport with gold. It XRays.
So you are unable to travel with gold.
The usual swagger is oh, I lost my gold in a boating accident in my local lake. Which means you can't travel away from your lake, assuming you think the hypothetical authorities are too stupid to watch to see if you try to dredge the lake.
Bitcoin can be grabbed by shutting down the internet. The post Peak world may have no internet because spare parts for servers require transport, which will end. But of course a world with no transport will be a world where no one will trade food for gold, either.
So . . . I don't see the argument that gold can't be confiscated. That's what XRays are for.
CiO, anything, including your body parts, will be confiscated from you live, if the bully wants it. It is utter stupidity to rule out any one thing from confiscation.
Right, in the end neither bitcoins, gold or guns will help you, when you are ensalved again.
When you really need physical gold, you will NOT be traveling. If you want to have your survival depend on digital money, go for it. Think governments can confiscate the entire internet?
But what is that scenario? You don't travel, but food and spare parts do?
If they want to confiscate your gold (God knows why, it has no function, but if they do), what stops them?
You hiding it?
They'll just watch you. Or they'll jail you until you reveal where it is. Even today a judge that thinks you have money hidden to escape paying a bill will jail you for contempt. Jailing you is entirely within precedent. It is not a big step forward for them.
But as has been noted many times, there is no need to confiscate. Just tax all transactions with it at 70%. The published value will drop to zero immediately and you will never be able to avoid it. You will never know if your counterparty is a paid snitch. It's as good as confiscated, without any firearm confrontations.
Can bitcoin be confiscated? Probably, if all governments cooperate. The bar is higher than with gold. Because . . . travel.
What difference does it make when the government owns and controls the internet? As long as encryption is not a crime, they can't shut down peer-to-peer protocols.
> "When you really need physical gold, you will NOT be traveling."
What are you using in the meantime, as we patiently await the zombie apocalypse? YellenBux?
Can you travel with bitcoins? Hell yeah! Check out our paper wallet right here: TeamDepends owns 1,000,000,000 bitcoins. Deal with it.
You're a douchebag. I've traveled all over the place with gold in my bag. Never even once questioned about it.
From a country with capital controls in place? Like Cyprus?
Most jurisdictions require you to declare $10,000 worth or more. Kudos to you for having the balls to not declare, of course if they do find it they'll take it and leave you holding the bag.
I've traveled with gold in my bag too. Every time I went through airport security, I was questioned about it. I never had it confiscated, but if the airport security had wanted to they would and could have. It's impossible to hide it from the x-ray. I would never put it in a checked bag for fear of theft.
If you're wealthy enough to travel via a private aircraft, there likely won't be a problem with airport security.
The March 2011 FinCen Form 105 does not have a place to enter gold, or requirement to in the instructions -- only bearer currency and coin equivalents.
www.fincen.gov/forms/files/fin105_cmir.pdf
deleted, redundant question.
Correct. Bitcoin can be stored in a way that no one can confiscate it and it's not difficult to do:
1. Encrypted paper wallets (an off-line storage for wallet private keys)
2. Brain wallet (private keys memorized as a sequence of words)
3. P2SH wallets (wallets requiring multiple signatures to withdraw funds, also called multisig or m-of-n)
Yeah, the internet is completely safe.
Which part of "off-line" didn't you understand, exactly?
Understanding is beneath him. It's all about trolling.
Commander, are you familiar with brain wallet mining?
https://www.google.ca/search?q=brain+wallet+mining&rlz=1C1CHFX_enCA565CA...
Your brain wallet is only as good as your random number/phrase generator. Humans suck big time at this particular exercise, that is coming up with truly random values.
Google diceware.
I've always struggled with hyphens.
LOL. You know right? I failed English one year in high school...and my Dad was a high school teacher. Made me take summer classes. Sucked moose.
Consider this, the U.S. Government auctioned 30,000 bitcoins and advertised the address they were stored at. Nobody stole those bitcoins even though I'm sure many wanted to. This is no different than if you or I advertised our own bitcoin addresses.
All of the addresses and their balance and transaction history can be seen by everyone via the blockchain.
As I understand it, there is no direct way to see what wallet contains a particular address, although ownership of an address can be surmised by simply engaging in a transaction with that person, which is, as I understand, how they built evidence against the Silk Road operation.
Something to consider for the (not so distant?) future.
Cold storage and Quantum/Cotton Mouth
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/15/us/nsa-effort-pries-open-computers-not...
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/29y6ud/we_may_have_a_problem_wi...
A Ponzi happens when there are Nx promises of distinct deliveries for every 1x physical units.
Physical PMs, by inherent definition and composition, cannot be Ponzified (but can be diluted or faked). Only PM ETFs are Ponzifiable, and they are.
The system of use of gold certificates, originally from goldsmiths and later from banks, became a Ponzi scheme when the operator issued more certificates than he had gold to back them. The system thrived due to the threat of theft of one's physical and the many of the certificates became "good as gold". This threat of theft still exists. There is no way to avoid it with gold or any physical medium of exchange. How does one pay for something that's very expensive? He needs an army to protect him and even then the generals might decide to take it away.
I see $630 listed for bitcoin right now.
I don't think much money comes out of gold to go to bitcoin, but every penny going into bitcoin isn't going into gold. That market (the gold buyers) has now been fractured.
This isn't Highlander. There can, in fact, be more than one. Especially when they serve different purposes. Fact is that gold and bitcoin compliment each other, with bitcoin being easy to transact in while gold is nice and safe to store for long periods of time.
Not that I would expect a Malthusian to understand such concepts.
Wow, an actual sane comment! Thanks tmosley.
tmosley is a gem here, CH1. I don't think I have ever caught him saying something incorrect.
Huh? His silver calls were some of the worst ever made here.
And fwiw, mine weren't very accurate either. I never thought they could push gold and silver this low.
My calls weren't worth much either. So far. (I now guess rather than predict)
Me either re them pushing prices down.
Stay the course. Stack on.
"Better to be silent and appear a fool, than to open mouth and remove all doubt." I predict you'll never see me make any predictions here.
For me, CiO has a point, as do you.
I'm kinda on the fence regarding BitCoin in a true SHTF situation,where computer/internet access becomes difficult.
I such a situation, Au & Ag would have to be used very carefully, I would think, but at least it would be there.
If you go with both, the hard part is figuring out how much of each, I guess, but that's life.
You don't store large amounts of money in BTC. You use it for transacting and bypassing currency controls. I don't have more than about 2% of my portfolio in crypto, with the rest in cash or PMs.
The major thing about Bitcoin is that you need to know how it works, and have a bit so you can overcome any skittishness should the time come when you have to divest yourself of physical assets, perhaps so you can get out of the country.
I have a little under 1% in BTC. Quite right about BTC being very useful should you want to move wealth somewhere else quietly.
Exactly. Au & Ag for when the internet crashes or when national fiat currencies die in a fire. When will that happen? In the meantime my PMs are doing a whole lot of nothing. What do I transact with day-to-day in the here-and-now? YellenBux or Bitcoin? hmm.
The bitcoin market is still tiny compared to the gold market. It has no impact now, but when it gets as big as the gold market, then yes.
Hmm... two day old member takes on 4 year plus member. Then gets it all wrong. Not worth pointing out the [many] mistakes in your logic.
theonewhowaskazu Really? No /sarc tag? Are you really that stupid or are you just trolling for down arrows?
free francis
Bitcoin doesnt have any inherent value whatsoever is the thing - and a physical thing in finite quantity can not be the basis of a ponzi.
Do you get why?
you're not understanding where the value of bitcoin comes from.
it's not from bitcoins themselves - it's the value of the network, and what it allows (fee-free transactions, decentralized movement of currency not limited by capital controls, etc); these things have actual real-world value.
In addition to its outstanding utility it takes real values to produce a Bitcoin. Just ask the miners. In this way it is very similar to gold. In contrast, Bitcoin has a much better utility than gold, but gold is a good hedge against a doomsday scenario (we fall back into a medieval period).
If we go medieval, being able to make stuff and fix stuff will be worth more than gold.
Knowledge and skills are very portable too.
+1
Knowledge and skills = True Wealth
PMs and Cryptos are mearly monetary, and currency measuring sticks.
the FACT that buttcoin is just another Rothschild...
Ah yes, messages from the secret decoder ring.
I don't think they created it, however Rothschilds et al, could certainly Butt fuck the coin anytime they want.
Ahmeexnal That just confirms the FACT that buttcoin is just another Rothschild ponzi designed to lure the idiotic sheeple away from REAL money (PMs).
----
I have posted numerous post that were negative towards bitcon. But I find posts like yours truly disturbing. It is backed by no FACTS and pure emotional conspiracy drivel.
Real money is what the majority perceive it to be. That is why at one point in the past tulips were money. Until you realize that, you will get it wrong because you are driven by emotion, not intellect.
shouldvekilledthem That is why at one point in the past tulips were money.
Comparing bitcoin to the tulip mania is just retarded. However, people are afraid of things they don't understand.
Open your mind peasant, at least try to comprehend what it is.
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No what is retarded is people that don't see they are emotionally driven and become married to financial opinions. I could careless if bitcon goes to 1 billion. I have no dog in the race. You need to read popular delusions and the madness of crowds, because you may be effected. The argument that those that disagree with you just don't understand is a typical leftist argument when you have nothing real to back up wihat you say. It's like calling every white man a racist just becuase he opposes your view. And you try to win your argument by insulting and calling names (open your mind peasant). And the sad fact is I was disagreeing with the point that this is a Rothschild conspiracy. But you are too ignorant to se that. Shame on view for being low information.
Tulips were money.....Bitcoin is a crypto-currency....how can you compare them?
It seems to me Bitcoin is a viable currency...why does everyone confuse money and currency.
CCanuck Tulips were money.....Bitcoin is a crypto-currency....how can you compare them?
It seems to me Bitcoin is a viable currency...why does everyone confuse money and currency.
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Currency:
1. a system of money in general use in a particular country.
2. the fact or quality of being generally accepted or in use.
Money:
1 . a current medium of exchange in the form of coins and banknotes; coins and banknotes collectively.
2. the assets, property, and resources owned by someone or something; wealth.
I would suggest you and bitconers are confused. Bitconers want everyone to believe bitcons are money and the new currency. However, by definition, bitcons are not widely accepted like they want you to believe. Have you ever noticed that many of these bitcon sites (such as ones that sell mining hardware, software, or advertisements often have referral component to them? There is a reason for that. Get us more members so your payout will be higher! Pure MLM stuff.
Right now, bitcons fit more of the definition of money, not currency, even though the bitconers want it to be the currency. Why do I say that? Because bitcons are still unproven (but they may be proven one day). Thus they are more like assets or property. That is why the IRS ruled the way they did. I made my comparison because bitcons are acting simply like a commodity that isn't proven, and thus may be overvalued with all the hype. The same hype that brought delusion and madness to other bubbles.
Please note the above comment that bitcons may someday be proven. I am not against a form of new currency. I am a realist and look at the facts and the way bitcons are being promoted and used. It doesn't add up to all that the bitconers want you to believe.
I appreciate your clarification; we all are struggel making sense fo casual use of words like "money" and "currency" and what the core meaning of those is. To me money is whatever goes.
To make things even more interesting, let me refine the position of average bitcoiner: Bitcoin is decentralized trust. Money is only first application on that decentralized network of trust - much like email was one of the first applications on internet (and internet is decentralized information).
But gold and silver are manipulated, as well, correct? So, how can you claim that bitcoin is manipulated, but gold and silver are not?
Freewheelin Franklin But gold and silver are manipulated, as well, correct? So, how can you claim that bitcoin is manipulated, but gold and silver are not?
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I think you are correct in this assertion. I am likely wrong in suggesting in other threads that PMs were not as manipulated as discovered. That is the difference between someone rational and honest compared to some that just have to push their view and cannot accept being wrong. Then they defend their point by calling names.
This doesn't change my overall viewpoint on PMs. They decline in a deflationary market as servicing debt becomes tha main issue. PMs won't do as bad as other marketets but they still decline., and I do have a portion of my assets as PMs. That is the market forces despite manipulation. For example:
A guy has a $300k mortgage, a car payment and a family to feed. He loses his job. If he can't find work soon, he starts selling his assets because he needs dollars to service those debts. That includes PMs he might own.
At first I thought this was the ignorant assertion of some turd worried about the future value of his own holdings, then I noticed the word fact was written all caps.
CONFIRMED
> the FACT that buttcoin is just another Rothschild ponzi...
If you say it, it must be true! Keep breeding, lol.
More and more every month my economic activity is taking place in a network of sellers and buyers that specifically choose the bitcoin payment system. If you don't want to participate, that is fine... Seriously doubt you have anything I'd want to buy anyways.
Can't rehypothecate bitcoins, and there's not much point in putting them in a bank where they can be.
The only reason for them to be out of your wallet is if you are trading on an exchange or trying to get interest. The fact that it is out of your wallet during these times hammers home the fact that those coins are being used for speculation and can be lost. Hence, you do your homework.
Not that ZH cares. All they see is a possible threat to gold's dominance and they go full retard.
Are you sure about this:
Cuz Bitfinex certainly disagrees.
https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/howitworks
did you even read to the end of the sentence before replying?
here, let me copy the entire sentence for you:
"Can't rehypothecate bitcoins, and there's not much point in putting them in a bank where they can be."
bitcoins that you have cannot be rehypothecated.
once you turn them over to bitfinex or some type of financial institution, all bets are off.
Maybe you should read the "Liquidity Provider" section of Bitfinex.
The wallet is YOUR wallet, you don't turn it over to Bitfinex. They can't transact against it. It's used as evidence of existence to rehypothecate to traders. Coupled with margin trading, it provides leverage on a single bitcoin.
Fucking bitcoiners. I agree it's here to stay, but admit it has flaws. It can be rehypothecated. It can be stolen. The protocol is broken. Or don't you even follow the community:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/28zts3/mike_hearn_interview_quo... (And BTW, Gavin Andresen is now gone from development)
Let's see how this all shakes out when the TwinkleToe Brothers release their ETF this fall.
Update:
Maybe Bitcoin is not here to stay-- Mastercard is in the game now.
http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/mastercardfilesbitcoinpatent
So let's see, a payment system (BTC) that requires Maxwell Smart's Cone of Silence, a quantum computer and a nearby Starbux to transact -- OR Mastercard. Boy 50-50 odds as to who wins that one huh.
stacking12321 once you turn them over to bitfinex or some type of financial institution, all bets are off.
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How many of those companies turned over their copper holdings in China that were rehypothecated? Answer ZERO.
exactly! that's my point. DON'T turn them over to bitfinex or anyone else, and there is no rehypothecation risk.
hold on to your bitcoins and there is no counter-party risk like there is with financial instruments such as a bank deposit, derivatives, futures contracts, bonds, or stock certificates held in street name.
It's embarrassing you had to repeat this captain obvious on zerohedge. I own pms too, I don't understand how people who were smart enough to buy phys PMs are stupid enough to ignorantly attack an innovation that may affect their PM value rather than hedging their bet and buying a little revolution. (If you don't think cryptos are a revolution, you are ill-informed)
If these stackers attempted to understand bitcoin 18 months ago, instead of deriding it every chance a la central banks on gold, they could have taken an egg out of one basket and placed it in the crypto basket where it would be a full carton now.
Only a novice would fear and avoid a potential 'competitor' to their holdings rather than hedge their bet, what is wrong with diversification zeroHEDGErs?
i glanced at this bitfinex company that you put a link to, the liquidity providing section, as you said:
"Bitfinex allows you, using your deposit wallets, to provide liquidity in the form of Bitcoins and/or dollars to traders."
they call it "your" deposit wallet, but my impression is that it's a bitfinex wallet that they say is yours.
it's like "your" deposit at a bank, you become an unsecured lender to the bank.
i don't know why you are harping on this "bitfinex" company that i've never heard of to try to prove some non-existent point. the bitcoins that i have on my usb drive or paper wallet absolutely CANNOT be rehypothecated.
Your a fucking bitcoin expert and have never heard of Bitfinex:
http://www.coindesk.com/bitfinex-added-coindesk-bitcoin-price-index/
You know 2nd or 3rd largest bitcoin exchange ($USD).
And no, your glance about the deposit wallet is not correct. As @sessinpo example showed, all they need to know is the EXISTENCE of the thingy before they rehypothecate the thingy. That's what the deposit wallet is. They have no right to transact against it. Think read only backup copy of your USB thumb drive cold storage. And isn't margin trading a form of rehypothecation(they are creating bitcoin ex nihilo with the margin). And FYI, Kraken does that too. Or don't you know about them either.
I'm sure all the Goxers and Vircurex crew might take issue with you about how bulletproof their USB thumb drives were.
Are you seriously this butthurt about cryptos you clearly do not grasp? Why? There are loads of exchanges out there with new ones popping up every week, I think you will struggle to find an 'expert' that can recite them all - it would be much easier to find a core developer who has no idea of any of the exchanges.
You could be a cryptocurrency expert without even knowledge of the existence of crypto exchanges, but don't let me blather on about the basics of peer to peer cryptocurrencies, of which you are obviously not interested. Carry on fearmongering it seems to have worked well so far, hasn't bitcoin died like 20 times now?
it was interesting to see the recent survey that got posted on coindesk which clearly showed that the less someone knew about bitcoin, the more anti-bitcoin they were, while the more they knew about bitcoin, the more pro-bitcoin they were.
just goes to show you...
If you can wire a Bitcoin within minutes with your own device to any place in the world at any time, why would somebody prefer an IOU on a Bitcoin, which actually is owned by another institution.
Bitcoin is the death of the IOU.
It will be disruptive to the entire financial industry and the end of the endless shell games they play.
Bunga Bunga If you can wire a Bitcoin within minutes with your own device to any place in the world at any time, why would somebody prefer an IOU on a Bitcoin, which actually is owned by another institution.
Bitcoin is the death of the IOU.
It will be disruptive to the entire financial industry and end of the endless shell games they play.
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Unfortunately there is a big push to create a bitcon credit market including bitcon credit cards - those are IOUs.
Sure, some will try to put a fractional reserve banking on top. But I doubt it will work well, because why should I deposit my Bitcoins with a bank, when I can store them in my own wallet with much better security and wire them to a payee directly?
Even if people deposit Bitcoins with a bank for whatever reason (maybe the get interest, but I don't see that coming anytime soon), people can't be stopped from a bank run by bank doors or office hours. The peer-to-peer utility will disrupt any shell game quickly. Onle some kind of sustainable banking is possible, where the banks avoid any term structure risks by lending shorter than they can borrow including safety margins.
Bunga Bunga Sure, some will try to put a fractional reserve banking on top. But I doubt it will work well, because why should I deposit my Bitcoins with a bank, when I can store them in my own wallet with much better security and wire them to a payee directly?
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Um why would you deposit anything in a bank. If you get a home equity loan, do you bring your house to the bank? How about those rehypothecated PMs that China is dealing with? Did they deposit their copper and other metals at the bank?
Or did they just presented they had these assets and then got a loan for it. Bitcons like any asset or money is subject to the same manipulations as any other. Why? Because eventually you have to convert it to dollars because bitcons are not globally accepted by the powers that be as settle of debt.
Even if you deal with a business that accepts bitcons, guess what. That business eventually has to convert those bitcons it got from you to dollars.
And peer to peer has vulnerabilities. That is why an internet 2.0 is being developed because the current system that bitcon uses is flawed.
Local banking is not the problem. There is nothing wrong with having an institution that may provided some funding for some needs and they should get some form of return. Otherwise why would they do it? The problem is central banking that influences global markets and the local markets with their massive printing and debt creation. Local banks should exist and they should be responsible to DENY loans to unworthy borrowers.
You obviously don't understand how modern banking works. Without deposits there are no loans. Not that the deposits are used for loans, but it's a requirement by regulation to keep the system somehow stable.
With fiat I have to do deposits to use the utuility of cheques and electronic payments. With Bitcoins I can just circumvent the banks, so no need to make deposits.
And in a growing Bitcoin economy I don't have to convert Bitcoins to dollars except for paying taxes. But that might change too, when governments start accepting Bitcoin.
When you know the flaws of Bitcoin, please name them!
Internet 2.0 has nothing to do with the underlaying protocols and encryption. IPv4 is not flawed, only somehow limited by the IP address range. IPv6 just fixes that and provides new features.
Modern banking is inefficient and in general a shell game (just look up the data for M0 and MZM at the federal reserve). I have nothing against sustainable banking, where a bank has always the reserves to pay out all the deposits at any time.