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"Boring", "Absolutely Dead" Market Leaves World's Largest Trading Floor "Virtually Empty"
The UBS trading floor in Stamford, CT was dubbed (by Guinness World Records) the largest in the world. But now... as the WSJ reports, there are virtually no traders shouting into their phones or staring at terminals. UBS's cavernous floor is taken up mostly by back-office, legal and technology staffers, according to people familiar with the bank. Simply put, a deep slump in trading activity in everything from stocks and bonds to currencies is changing the face of Wall Street. Today's markets are "boring," rants a senior credit trader; "It's been absolutely dead," warns another adding, "When you go a day or two and don't have a trade on the tape, it's frustrating," as stock trading in the second quarter fell 43.6% from second-quarter 2009 levels to their lowest level since 2007.
"You go through lulls," he said. "If you're going through this for the first time, you have no context."
UBS's trading floor in Stamford, Conn., once teemed with traders occupying a space equal to two football fields. The Guinness World Records recognized it as the biggest such facility on the planet. And the Swiss bank used it to showcase its Wall Street credentials.
Today, there are virtually no traders shouting into their phones or staring at terminals. UBS's cavernous floor is taken up mostly by back-office, legal and technology staffers, according to people familiar with the bank.
The reason...
A deep slump in trading activity in everything from stocks and bonds to currencies is changing the face of Wall Street. Businesses that once contributed disproportionately to the revenues of the world's largest banks are now bleeding jobs and sparking fears of a permanent decline.
Today's markets are "boring,"
"This is affecting the opportunity to make money, and ultimately the earnings these [trading] businesses can provide."
Global revenue from trading in fixed income, currencies and commodities, or FICC, dropped to $112 billion last year, down 16% from a year earlier and 23% from 2010, according to Boston Consulting Group.
"It's been absolutely dead," said Jarrod Dean, a municipal-bond trader at Sierra Pacific Securities in Las Vegas. Municipal-bond trading volumes are down about 30% since last August, he said, while profits are down more than 70%.
Equities trading volumes also have taken a beating of late. Stock trading in the second quarter fell 43.6% from second-quarter 2009 levels to their lowest level since 2007, according to Credit Suisse Group data.
Bill Nichols, head of U.S. equity trading at Cantor Fitzgerald LP, said low volumes have taken a toll on traders' psyches.
"When you go a day or two and don't have a trade on the tape, it's frustrating," he said.
* * *
Sounds eerily familiar to the total and utter collapse of Japanese bond markets - described as "dead" by traders with days going by with no trading... stunning!!
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Yeah well. Adapt.
What is new? Nothing.
As WSJ reports,
yeah right you fochin shill........you know you're foched
I guess this is what happens to "Markets" when there is only one buyer? All the action is in reverse Repo's??
So there will be no one manning the exists when panic strikes, making things even worse?
Not sure there will ever be a panic if no one is trading. Everyone may already be out.
Well, there's that one guy who has to sell 2 billion notional of gold in 1 millisecond every once in a while at US market open. But, other than him, nothing. But, that's tough work! So give the guy some slack.
But, but, but - this is the finance industry! It is too big! The govt will pay new immigrants to buy and sell shares so that these people can keep their jawbs and save the system!
/s
Perhaps I shouldn't make suggestions like this. The wrong person might read it.
LOL and in order to keep from having to pay him they probably have an algo do it!
+456!
And yes, former MarketWatch readers understand this number.
From a vibrant display of capitalism...to a replica of the DMV. To quote one of the beatles (forget which), "Everything the Government touches turns to shit".
"Boring", "Absolutely Dead" Market Leaves World's Largest Trading Floor "Virtually Empty"
Yes, trading floors weren't very busy in the Soviet Union, either
+100 for the reference.
http://mladjenovic.blogspot.com/2010/01/who-is-rightpaul-krugman-or-ring...
This should be no surprise. Fed has removed all risk, so the only ones playing are the ones required to play: "Institutional Investors" who are, largely, required to do nothing but buy because they have new money coming in every month that must be invested. Sure, HFTs are still in there skimming, but buy-only institutions don't care about getting chiseled for a couple pennies per trade when they're going to hold basically forever.
Spot on 'NoDebt'
This is absolutely no suprise and I don't know why so many people on this website expect some kind of panic sell off - hoping to make the ultimate trade I guess (can't blame them for that)..... But its not going to happen - welcome to centrally planned hell - this is the NWO. The free market died years ago the day when the French said they'd save Dexia and we've been on a vertical ramp ever since. Even central banks have been buying stocks - the markets aren't allowed to go down there's always a backstop - some FED computer churning somewhere steps in and buys if the DJ falls 150.
Its sad that this once vibrant industry (corrupt yes) but still serving as a price discovery mechanism for the global economy has effectively died - to be replaced by a load of computers and algorithms - long only institutional investors. Day traders time to go back to work!
Yes, I've been wondering if This Is It - when the bankers finally take over our economies entirely, because, ultimately, they own all the companies that own all the stocks, because the banks own all the debt that those companies used to buy the stocks in the first place.
As long as those companies can service the debt, they needn't sell. And even if they can't service the debt, they'll probably just get lent even more, so they can.
Total worldwide fascism - it's what's for dinner (and breakfast, and lunch). Goodbye profit-and-loss, hello Soviet.
I guess they took the saying buy in may and go away literally...
HedgeAccordingly,
Adapt! That's absolutely right.
What's new? If they would be capable to understand what is about to hit them….
And you can clearly see it here, as well, by reading some the comments.
Live by the sword, die by the sword. No sympathy here. What these clowns haven't figured out yet, shuffling paper all day and calling it wealth is an illusion. Melt the witch.
The fact that all the trading has been moved back to NYC might help explain why the Stamford desk is empty.
Assuming the validity of your statement which I can't imagine otherwise, that little fact would seem to be a pertient and relevant piece of the story that was intentionally and conveniently glossed over in an effort to lead the reader to come to an entirely wrong conclusion.
A deep slump in trading activity in everything from stocks and bonds to currencies is changing the face of Wall Street. Businesses that once contributed disproportionately to the revenues of the world's largest banks are now bleeding jobs and sparking fears of a permanent decline.
"Permanent decline"
Well thats a start
in my experience most "traders" are little pricks that need a good slap, is that endemic to the northeast US?
"Stock prices have reached what appears to be a permanently high decline." (Quote from 1929, adapted.)
No trade....no pay
they should play Russian Roullete to keep their jobs, i.e Deer Hunter...MOW MOW MOW...
has anyone looked at aapl? you would think after 7:1 split daily volume will pick up ... instead the volume looks to be in decline ...
Butttttttt mom & pop are buying & the market is making new highs & pigs are flying
after all it's just
"Market forces at work"
Illegals will fill that place up soon.
Or switch to Sport betting. J6P loves to bet on sports!
Yep, the place should soon be filled with lice, bedbugs, and scabies,.....with traces of resistant TB and Ebola. Thank you Ovomit. What would we have done without you.
When, do you suppose, the MSM will report about the bodies of Central American children washing up on the Texas bank of the Rio Grande? My God, what a horror story that sonofabitch in the White Mosque is inflicting upon us.
We should hold public rallies to honor the Godless George Soros, and the imbecilic Ebonic Plague for this governmental nightmare they have foisted upon is......Of course, a tip of the hat should go to Juan Oboehner and the incompetent Repugnicans for their able assistance to the evil Ovomit.
"Average daily trading volume as a percentage of U.S bonds outstanding"..
what a dumb *%&!ing metric
trading floors.....too funny
LOL the apple guy is back! how was that ride down from 675 and back .. must have been fun... while the market is up 15-20% -
should we buy more here ? or just wait for another kick in the teeth? please advise...
Owned since $200 dipshit.
And you were telling us all to buy at $200? Or when it was trading at all-time-highs?
Lolzzzzz I asked the Apple guy a few times over the course of the company crapping the bed and no reply. At least you got acknowledged and called a name!
what did you ask me? and no, it's not fun when you own a large position in a company to watch it take such a big hit, but I stuck to my guns, did not sell a share, got paid a nice dividend where I am averaged in at and have made a ton of money. I told Reggie he was full of shit all along the way. banzai was the only other person on this board that agreed with me. told everyone to buy when it was getting crushed. so I'm killing it, hope you are too.
Algos trading using counterfeit dollars as 1s and 0s. It's all an illusion of a market.
I guess they should have interviewed a vacuum tube for this article.
Unemployment in the trading sector is just deserts for their greed IMHO.
The American boiler room mentality has blowback that has been waiting
for years to come full circle. Traders traded the USA for a slice of pizza
and a coke, SUCKERS. This is American exceptionalism at it's finest.
OCCUPY THE ZOMBIE AMERICANS - OCCUPY EVERYTHING
Paintball...or laser tag if you don't want the mess.
Traders appear to be busy on the NYSE floors. But that's for the TV cameras.
Blow it the fuck up then. Blow the motherfucker up.
Boomers just wanna get out and live the rest of their life in peace.
Boomers just wanna get out and live on a reasonable income, or prgressive attrition.
Boomers, hopefully, are not so stupid as to continue playing this rigged phukking casino.
eF the mofo FED.
The boomers have started to retire. They are beginning to take money out of the system. Where, exactly, is that money coming from? Are they living off of dividends and rental income? Or are they cashing out and taking capital gains? Or are they borrowing and using capital as collateral?
Don't stop thinking now, we've only just started!!!
I take a stab here, since I'm a boomer (60) and have been semi-retired (own business, work about 3-4 hours a day) since 2000. Now, I'm the exception, rather than the rule, having been single all my life with no kids. My peers of roughly the same age are still working like fools even though many of them have combined liquid assets well over $600k, not including their homes, many of which are in the $200K+ category.
Now, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you're going to live to be 90 (most won't BTW), that $600k will supply 20K per year without earning a penny of interest. Most of these folks (husband and wife) can easily live on $20k per year, but, like I said, they're still slaving away.
Why?
Lack of imagination, I suppose. I question them about what they plan to do and the responses fall in the usual categories: golf, travel, haven't thought about it, with the bulk of them in the last category. They just don't have a clue about what to do with all that extra time, so, they keep working... and saving. Most are making between $35-65k each, so their household income is double that. A few may have some loans outstanding, but nothing substantial, maybe a small home equity loan or car loan or still paying on college loans from their kids.
As pertains to this article, they're not buying stocks or bonds to any great degree. Most got burned in 2008, have been made whole, plus some, if they held, but are now putting money into cash, primarily. If anything, they're cashing out 401Ks and IRAs, slowly.
A few of the ones who retired already (mostly public employees with fat pensions) have taken on part-time jobs. Morons just can't get enough fiat.
I think they're mostly mooks, sheeple and/or zombies, just unaware of the general economy, politics, with a dim world view. They'll all be taking huge chucks out of SS soon, so that by 2020, the system will be overloaded and that's when the hammer falls. Everybody gets less, no two ways about it. Most of them will whine like little piggies, but their lives will still be fine.
Bottom line, between SS and pensions, their savings/investments will hardly be touched over the next few years, but, the government and the banksters will find ways to skim them, nonetheless.
Sounds about right ... same thing for the ones in my age group. When I try to engage them on what the future protends, extrapolating the issues covered here on ZH, they mostly shrug. But all of them, without exception, own weapons ....
"welcome to the machine" - Pink Floyd
I remember REAL trading in the OTC (way pre-NMS w/Quotron) back in the early 80s at Smith Barney then at Sheason/Lehman/AMEX and others. We had some slack days for sure but mostly we were busting our asses trading, working retail and large institutional orders with minimal computer assistance and it wore you out BUT you felt vital; it was (seemingly) a REAL market. And finally, after all is said an done (at least when you made money), is was FUN and stimulating. I ended my stint on Wall St. in 2002 and by that time it was hardly work I recognized or wanted to do, the whole process has been automated to a fault and the work just plain sucked, couldn't wait to get out of there and finally I was shown the door; not enough trading going on/slack order flow, and that was 2002.
Genuine capitalist society based opportunity in markets based on natural supply and demand and other natural market forces have been completely destroyed by government volatility limiting mechanisms at all levels.
Government induced market distortions are now the rule. Asset valuations are meaningless, as are stock prices and manipulated earnings reports.
The value of virtually every known asset has become completely distorted beyond recognition.
Government forcing of investment capital into malinvestment in the stock market and real estate and out of true productive healthy capital investment and saving will be the single greatest legacy to a financially doomed generation of Americans.
If Capitalism ever truly existed in the United States Of America, it no longer does.
The inevitable calamitous reset, which will likely only be brought on by completely unforeseen war, will make the United States first Great Depression look like a Sunny Afternoon Walk In The Park.
the big thing to understand is that it was owned from the start ... anything created capitalism or not it was strictly under control.
Yes, there were people like Henry Ford who came up with genius ideas and when they were really in the big leagues they saw the force ... some succeeded TEMPORARILY like ford as an example, but look at Detroit now ...
Don't forget malinvestment in higher ed and healthcare via loans and government subsidies.
"Volume always precedes Price"
or
"It's alwaus darkest before...."
Each time the market spikes or drops, sites like Bloomberg and MarketWatch post stock photographs of traders either celebrating or panicking in front of computer screens. If they were honest, they'd be showing the real traders - HFT server racks full of cables and blinking lights with a scruffy janitor chasing away rats with a broom stick.
Niggers,chinks and wetbacks, white bread dudes like me are all going to get the fucking hammer. Race aside, this will not improve your quality of life .....real period for any numbers aren't really that hArd
You are cattle like me, like if I had a kid, you are meat to be a battery for pedophiles that's all, stop and you know what another stop just in case
You are a write off like myself, we are not desirable because our synapses embarrass the "best" my ass
Bowleggedded power homos will always wonder if their going to get sniped
Fuck em
I knew it was you Dan Snyder.
"a battery for pedophiles"..."our synapses embarrass the "best" my ass"..."Bowleggedded power homos"?
What kind of people do you hang out with that such expressions would have any meaning to you?
I don't quite understand what these traders do. In the age of computers, this is like hiring people to operate traffic lights even though the lights are automatically controlled by machines. Does the person just sit there and pretend to work? They look at their computer screens and say "yep, people are buying and selling stuff" then call it a day?
Well, yes.
I think traders mostly exist to con people, since TPTB's AI isn't yet at the point where it can con you on the phone.
IMO, traders being out of work means in part that too many sheeple are just flat broke, plus a growing number of people who are finally getting wiser about the cons.
Automation is going to displace the gainful employment of alot of people.
Geez, that's too bad. Its going to be hard for these amoral conscienceless thieves to find a job......How about in the prison laundry? They're usually looking for help.
FINALLLLLLLYYYYY, god I have been puking my guts out everytime I hear that fucking stupid rant from the MSM.
"THE RETAIL INVESTOR IS POURING BACK INTO THE MARKET"
fuck u msm.
well in fairness, they are. Not the retain investor in the sense of the person placing trades via a platform; they have been net sellers for months.. The real buyers of equities are all those automatic programs like 401ks, other various funds and companies themselves, although companies are slowing down a bit. All they do is buy, then buy more.
I argue the real buyer of equities is the next generation of americans via their unwitting FED debt slavery, they are buying "assets" with both hands.
however you slice it, at this point its bagholders all the way down.
go to a MSM site
turn on tracking on your browser
then come over to ZH and you will see their ads
see them? now click on those MSM ads until your fingers bleed (a few bucks a click)
so now, instead of saying fuck u MSM, you can say I fucked MSM
Why don't they trade their own capital , rather than waiting for it to happen from other peoples money ?
Weird, they must live off others peoples risk as opposed to their own.
They all must be frightened to risk their own capital, poor things.
:)
Brokers not needed anymore when it's just buy and hold and watch the Fed take the market higher. 3,000 S&P here we come. 4,000 then 5,000 then 6,000 and on it goes.
Long index options seems like a guaranteed win. We've had 5 years seeing the Fed take markets higher and higher.
No, I don't see any crash in the future.
When S&P hits 10,000 a dollar might buy a stick of gum, but it doesn't matter. 10,000 S&P is all that matters.
I like the idea of turning that trading floor facility into a giant paintball arena. At least it would be making money.
That description fits the second largest trading floor (at BofA in Charlotte) as well. Other than a couple of traders here and there, its mostly 100s of tech and back office folks now.
I find it funny that this quote came from a guy at Cantor Fitzgerald:
Bill Nichols, head of U.S. equity trading at Cantor Fitzgerald LP, said low volumes have taken a toll on traders’ psyches.
When you go a day or two and don’t have a trade on the tape, it’s frustrating,” he said.
You know what else takes a toll on traders’ psyches? Having a plane fly into your building and yet you keep trading.