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The Fingerpointing Begins: Ukraine Accuses Rebels Of Shooting Down Airplane, Rebels Deny
That didn't take long for the Ukrainian government to know exactly what happened:
- *UKRAINE REBELS SHOT DOWN MALAYSIAN PLANE, GERASHCHENKO SAYS; But
- *DONETSK SEPARATISTS SAY NOT INVOLVED IN PLANE CRASH: INTERFAX
All 280 passengers and 15 crew were killed in the crash. The Malaysian Airlines jet was shot down by the BUK Missile System according to Interfax.
The BUK Missile system:
Curiously, Anton Gerashchenko, advisor to Ukraine ministry of internal affairs, had a prepared explanation for everything that happened half an hour ago, long before Ukraine even announced it would begin a probe into the flight crash:
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The Russians could spin this to their favor. The big headline before this happened was that Ukraine blamed Russia for downing a Su-25. Ukraine brings in the sophisticated anti-aircraft to prevent this. Paranoid Ukraine shoots down the airliner.
The Russians could spin this to their favor. The big headline before this happened was that Ukraine blamed Russia for downing a Su-25. Ukraine brings in the sophisticated anti-aircraft to prevent this. Paranoid Ukraine shoots down the airliner.
They will have the plane wreckage and they can do amazing investigation as to wht hit it and from where. I would let at least a week go by, better a month though "someone" won't want all the debris recovered. Not sure about Radar tracks in this area especially Russian radar tracks if it was a rebel accident. That AN-26 was up pretty high. Whoever got that one might have picked this one off too. I'm going to wait (and keep my head down). I pray for the families.
This certainly gets the Microsoft's layoffs off the news.
18k of metrosexual Windows 8 gone poof.
/sarc
Whoever smelt it dealt it.
who in the hell would fly an airplane over a war zone where they are shooting down planes?????
FUKING STUPID
Guess they had to flyu in a straight line to conserve fuel........???????
Whoever smelt it dealt it.
What a neatly pacakged Archduke Ferdinand-esque moment...
OR
When having one simply disappear didn't produce the desired results...
The Malaysian pilots are the new Japanese.
The Malaysian pilots are the new Japanese. Clazy.
Yep.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=girnJH7tvpM
Nothing more than collateral damage in a world where the ends justifies the means! Nothing to see here....move along!
? What, I didn't even had the time 2 ask myself when the Russians would get blamed for this..
From all the planes that could have dropped from the sky in proximity of the Russian Border…It just had to be one form Malaysia Air.
It wasn't the Russians. It was the Zionist CIA Nazis in Kiev.
Stop giving me up arrows, I'm mocking the conspiracy theorists!
The CIA does have it's fingerprints all over the Ukraine crisis. With USAID, NED and the John Brennan visit. And the coup-govt is comprised of hardline nationalist groups that carry flags and wear uniforms with swastikas and talk about murdering jews and Russians... Soooo its not a theory at all. It is certainly a conspiracy to destabilze Russia though, Zionists or no Zionists.
This site is starting to lose some credability with so many F*uk*() idiots always throwing up their "zionist conspiracy" crap.
It s getting old...the nazis and rag heads need to find another site to spew thier bulldookie
This site is starting to lose some credability with so many F*uk*() idiots always throwing up their "zionist conspiracy" crap.
It s getting old...the nazis and rag heads need to find another site to spew thier bulldookie. This site is for thinkers not nut jobs.
Sincerely
A Mexican-Irishman
This site is starting to lose some credability with so many F*uk*() idiots always throwing up their "zionist conspiracy" crap.
It s getting old...the nazis and rag heads need to find another site to spew thier bulldookie. This site is for thinkers not nut jobs.
Sincerely
A Mexican-Irishman
Note for future posterity.
Yesterday it was widely reported that the rebels did not have long range missle capability in regards to the shooting down of the SU-25.
Yesterdays story line was that the SU-25 must have been shot down by Russian air to air.
False Flag, may be.
If the media vociferously blames Russia/ Russian Separtists who used Russian weapons then we know our western govts. intiated, and so possibly false flag. If the media seems confused, which they should be in this situation as no one really knows WTF happenned except for the perpetrators, it could be just a general fuck up. Remember the KAL 747 that lazily passed into Russian air space in the 80's and got whacked. Not much came out of that tragedy or when the US destroyer shot down an Iranian passenger plane in the Gulf in like 88, I believe , as well as the plane that was shot down in Long Island waters by the US navy, but you never see tha fact admitted in the MSM. I think all those intances were legitimate mistakes.
Shit does happen.
Remember that the Maylay pilots have that pesky habit of turning off their pingers/transponders!
gee I was gonna post how this was obviously done by the mossad hacking into the Russian systems for the benefit of all those joos at Boeing, but I see that about a dozen false fags have beat me to it.
This reminds me of the Georgia war in 2008. Then president Saakashvili was holding press conferences every half-hour screaming about the evil Russians doing this, strafing that, bombing everything. Later we found out it was mostly lies, and he admitted he lied, but it was "for a good reason."
Interesting that this Ukrainian minister had a press release ready right after the jet hit the ground.
Both the Western Ukrainians and East Ukrainians have means motive and opportunity.
- West Ukrainians could do it to draw in Europe.
- East Ukrainians could do it to draw in Russia.
The Russians have means and opportunity, but no motive.
gcjohns1971
Logical that the Russians did not do this.
Also, another comment posted claimed airliner shot down too far from Russian border to be in operational range of Russia-based BUK AA missiles.
Please indicate source for your claim that:
"East Ukranians have means" (weaponry)
There's an article to that effect in Foreign Policy Review today that says so.
That's not conclusive.
But we had the same issue a few weeks ago when the West Ukrainian General was shot down in a helicopter.
And at that time the East Ukrainians said they had older Ukrainian equipment that they had captured.
The videos show a different camoflage pattern than what the West Ukrainians use.
Putting the two together it follows that the East Ukrainains have at least SOME vehicle born air defenses.
a link indicating the rebels have BUK AA capability was
provided in reply to an earlier ZH comment of mine
http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/rusvesna.su/news/1404041521
It's the missles fault!
Makes one want to move far north in Canada with Barry's game of superpower chicken.
You mean closer to the arctic conflict zone where things have been heating up between Russia, US and some Nordic European countries?
Serious question:
If they only just found the wreckage, how do they claim to know what shot it down?
It is not like the Air Defense missle writes "BUK WAS HERE" on the wreckage. Even if it did you'd need to wait for the fuel to stop burning to read it.
I was wondering too, unless the crew actually heard the lockon and launch and heard it coming and broadcast it out, or somesuch. Didn't know that commercial aircraft had such equipment, but maybe there's an app for that or something.
Sorry, it's clearly a tragedy, but there are too many awful jokes here that just write themselves.
There's no way to tell exactly what system has a target lock on an aircraft.
Different radars use different frequency ranges and different wave pulses.
Forensically, you can figure out what made a lock by tracking the frequencies and wave patterns it uses over time/ Then you look up what known systems fit the profile (usually a handful). And finally you infer which of the candidates it is by correlating it with other knowledge like what unit is assigned there, what equipment do they have, etc...
The correlation to what emitter creates the emission is automated in software up to a point. The software is mostly military. It won't be on the plane.
Furthermore, radars are advertising their locations when they emit. So Air Defense units tend to rely on their early warning networks, and then turn on their own radar only at the last minute to 'lock'.
That practice makes it difficult to forensically record the range of frequencies being used because you don't get the range - only a single blip.
UK news desparate to pin this on separatists.
Quelle surprise.
False flag
Sure. Civilian flights over Ukraine. Right.
Does GM make the ignition switch on the BUK missle system?
For general knowledge:
Each radar is line-of-sight. That means that if there is a mountain, or other object between the radar and an air craft, the radar can't see it.
The FAA links together radars from pretty much every civilian airfield in the world...and a fair number of military radar returns. It is in everyone's interest so that planes don't run into each other.
That is why everyone networks the radars.
Military radars work the same way. The radar on the launcher is mostly only for targetting to get a "lock" on the target. Early warning radars are usually separate.
This is called an Integrated Air Defense System or IADS. For countries like urkaine and Russia, the firing batteries are linked in with immobile radar installations, some of which are on air fields, some of which are on mountain tops. Most importantl to understand is that because they are all line-of-sight, losing one of the contributing radars means developing a geographic 'hole' in the air picture.
In eastern Ukraine those ground installations and the air defense systems were until recently all networked together. Because there was a defense pact between Ukraine and Russia, Russia was also linked into that network.
Now it is not clear which parts belong to whom. But it is certain that they are not linked together anymore.
Russia has some redundancy in radars on their side of the border. They likely only lost some range to their early warning network.
But both the East and West Ukes probably have a swiss-cheese air picture.
So if there's a firing battery on the ground, and they suddently pick up an aircraft near by, without the network to show them where that plane came from, and no time to do an IFF (Interogate Friend or Foe) before the aircraft is on top of them, why wouldn't they shoot??
Civilian Aircraft ought not fly over Donetsk. And should exercise caution when flying nearby to places like Rostov-Na-Don.
Alex Jones must be going nuts..not that he needs a reason.
A quick chronology of what poor liars the U.S. Government is under similar circumstances including "there own" when "planes" are involved...
Iran Air Flight 655
TWA Flight 800
9/11
Need anyone say more?...
Even Mayor of N.Y.C. Blasio calls what the NYCCAN on putting the High Rise Building Safety Initiative on the ballot this Fall "blasphemy", this after the New York circuit court of appeals shot it down the first time with over 80,000 signatures to the petition which they agreed to calling for a formal inquiry in that election in 2009!
Got nothing to hide... Let the chips fall where they may!...
First Rule of War Reporting:
The first report is always wrong in some significant way.
Please everyone, just keep that in mind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812
Separatists had the missiles and maybe a few "volunteers" to run them to knock down the helos and SU-25s that threatened them.
http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/rusvesna.su/news/1404041521
Ukrainian Nazi's ended the ceasefire, and now we have this. Obama's got blood on his hands for pushing the Nazi's to ditch the ceasfire, since this is what happens in a war zone, that he pushed for.
More consequences of Obama's idiocy. Oh and the deaths of 23 more Americans who were on the flight.
Curiously, Anton Gerashchenko, advisor to Ukraine ministry of internal affairs, had a prepared explanation for everything that happened half an hour ago, long before Ukraine even announced it would begin a probe into the flight crash:
They have planed it, the same way, they killed people at Maidan, so they know it.
Just stupid from him , not waiting al least until tomorrrow.
Kiev/Langly made a suspicious early call on the matter, that it was shot down and all, like they were knowing what they were doing and in their eyes succeeded because they were the ones ordering divertion of the original flightplan. In their hubris they made the call a bit too early on their arranged false-flag event creating a stick to beat Putin.
"Curiously, Anton Gerashchenko, advisor to Ukraine ministry of internal affairs, had a prepared explanation for everything that happened half an hour ago, long before Ukraine even announced it would begin a probe into the flight crash."
Sounding familiar? BBC Reports Collapse of WTC Building 7 Early-- TWICE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mxFRigYD3s
And Nikolay Kozitsin’s words hold truth: “They shouldn’t be f…cking flying. There is a war going on“.
FROM: SBU intercepts phone conversations of separatists admitting downing a civilian plane (FULL TRANSCRIPT; VIDEO) http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/separatists-admit-downing-a-civilian-plane-in-tapped-conversation-full-transcript-356545.html
Was Flight MH-17 Diverted Over Restricted Airspace? http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/was-flight-mh-17-diverted-over-restricted-airspace
So maybe Langley involved after all but on a more sneakier way than suspected at first glance?
One also could suggest to what seems to be the most simple explanation, simply a second Cossack rogue rocket which was directed by the (Russian) suggested default setup 'target/kill everything in range'.
The Cossacks simply launched two rockets to be sure and since the weapon is so freakin accurate/effective it hit the first intented target keeping the second rocket looking out for an other target which it eventually but very tragically found be it unintesionaly.