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US Intelligence Confirms Malaysian Jet Brought Down By Surface-To-Air Missile

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Details are starting to come together. The WSJ reports that US Intelligence detected a surface missile launch and tracked the explosion of the plane.

  • *U.S. INTELLIGENCE SAYS SURFACE-TO-AIR MISSILE FIRED PLANE: WSJ

However, Intelligence Community Divided Over Whether Missile From Russia or E. Ukraine.

As WSJ earlier noted,

If the Malaysia Airlines passenger jet that crashed in eastern Ukraine was shot down — as US Intelligence has now confirmed — attackers would have had to use a sophisticated surface-to-air missile system, not the shoulder-fired weapons that are more accessible and easier to use.

 

Those weapons, nicknamed manpads, have been used in attacks against commercial aircraft in the past. But their range is much lower than the approximately 30,000-feet cruising altitude at which the Ukrainian official said Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, a Boeing carrying 295 passengers and crew, was flying.

Manpads in use...

 

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Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:32 | 4969966 Liberal
Liberal's picture

Then it MUST BE true!

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:35 | 4969985 NuckingFuts
NuckingFuts's picture

A lot of problems loading ZH. Anyone else? What's up?

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:36 | 4969998 linniepar
linniepar's picture

We can detect surface to air missiles, but we can't recover Lois Lerner's emails?

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:44 | 4970035 Major Major Major
Major Major Major's picture

Nor can we detect actual airplanes that go missing

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:50 | 4970067 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

The conspiracist in me is keeping an eye on this one... seems a bit too coincidental that this is the same airline and model as the plane that recently disappeared...

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:58 | 4970109 Lost My Shorts
Lost My Shorts's picture

Non-conspiracy theory:  the separatists were feeling like hot stuff for being able to shoot down Ukrainian government planes, and got carried away and hit a foreign passenger plane by mistake.

But if it wasn't so simple, then you have to wonder why they chose a plane from a minor country like Malaysia instead of something more dramatic like a major European airline (all of which also flew that route until today).

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:09 | 4970134 negative rates
negative rates's picture

.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 18:16 | 4970451 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

the event happened probably as an excuse for santions or military action against russia or ukranian separatists.

as far as who really did it, i wouldn't be surprised to find out CIA or blackwater/Xe were involved.

as far as why picking on malaysia airlines, i would look into things like:

1) has anyone heavily shorted or bought put options on them recently?

2) has malaysia airlines done anything to piss off the americans?

3) who will end up buying malaysia airlines on the cheap (article claims they were in financial straits before these 2 incidents)?

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 18:32 | 4970528 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

Perhaps it was a French missle.  Like this one.  Oh wait....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-q_kIf1zbI

 

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 18:49 | 4970621 kaa1016
kaa1016's picture

Just heard that today is the 18 year anniversary of TWA Flight 800...

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 18:54 | 4970650 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Sounds almost too twilight zone ... maybe it was space alients (occam's razor).

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 21:01 | 4971316 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Operation Northwoods.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 19:20 | 4970804 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

The FBI did all it could to disparage eyewitness accounts telling of something ascending from the surface and intersecting with that aircraft's path. Why should we believe the feds now when they were so off base then? TWA-800 was a Boeing 747-100. This was a Boeing 777. Is it safe to be on a Boeing that's not on the ground?

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:45 | 4971920 Ranting Troglodyte
Ranting Troglodyte's picture

Another one brought down by a missile....

 

 

Just a lot harder to play that one off on some "separatists ".

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 19:03 | 4970714 Sirius Wonderblast
Sirius Wonderblast's picture

Interesting Obama took the opportunity threaten Putin again today. Given Putin's been several mves ahead all through this crisis, praps they thought they'd try something totally random? I see the numerologists are having a field day, btw. This stinks like rotting fish. I await the response - if any - with interest.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 18:16 | 4970453 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Cui bono?  There's no upside to the separatists doing this.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:11 | 4970138 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

Exactly, when the controlled MSM announces who, what, where, why and how - in 30 minutes of a major event like this...it has false flag smeared all over it.

.

Info for consideration from Jimstone site:

Heads up: Flightradar24.com which is the defining site for flight history says MH17 was canceled and never departed, with no departure time listed. Hmmm . . . . . Good cover for flight 370? Not enough substance to make a call on that one, but this is something to make note of at least. The site is down now, possibly overwhelmed? That is OK, I got a photograph of this.

.

UPDATE: Flight "MH17" was being escorted by two fighter jets up until shoot down, which would be PERFECT if it was in fact a zombie flight 370 under remote control to its final death. This is covered more farther down the page.

http://jimstonefreelance.com/

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:37 | 4970262 general ambivalent
general ambivalent's picture

Yeah, I don't like the current jumping to conspiracy conclusions on every event, but damn, the media has quite a narrative on this one.

If not a false flag this is one of the worst possible coincidences in history I think. And what does that tell you? Almost certainly a false flag.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 20:18 | 4971105 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

It's no coincidence.  Thousands of planes fly everyday throughout Europe.  My local media outlet said "now we just have to figure out if the Ukraine or Russians did this".

lol.

Can't be the US led banker cabal, the same banker cabal that NEEDS USD reserve status, brought down the twin towers, and is clearly pissed at Putin.  Who had motive?  Who is behind in the global energy race and global energy deals?  Kinda obvious, no?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:07 | 4974806 mkkby
mkkby's picture

Yeah, this stinks. 

Intelligence was able to find, interpret and report on their data in under 30 minutes. 

Then they were able to get internal clearance to go to the media.

Then in that same half hour they were able to call friendly media, and get them on the phone.  Those reporters didn't need any time to write and publish their story.  It just goes from thought to paper/web instantly.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 18:35 | 4970480 NoPantsSpongeBob
NoPantsSpongeBob's picture

Or an indirect admission that US intelligence is numerous and active in Ukraine.

 

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 19:29 | 4970837 giovanni_f
giovanni_f's picture

us intelligence = oxymoron

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 18:59 | 4970687 AgeOfJefferson
AgeOfJefferson's picture

Yep you're right. This flight was CANCELLED as per http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/mh17/. I got a screenshot just in case. What is the background of this website - anyone know? Are they and the data officially recognized? Any MSM showing this. 

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 20:16 | 4971096 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

all it means is that air traffic control at Kuala Lumpur / WMKK didn't send an arrival message for the flight... this is expected given circumstances... the flight was shown as in air and on time earlier today...

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 02:45 | 4972232 Davalicious
Davalicious's picture

The flight was cancelled with extreme prejudice.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:07 | 4970141 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Okay Einstien, can you tell us why?

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:19 | 4970196 what's that smell
what's that smell's picture
US Intelligence Confirms Malaysian Jet Brought Down By Surface-To-Air Missile

us intelligence? confirms? the lying mudderfudders (whoever they are) will say anything without shame or remorse.

can you say "sock puppet"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet)

is zerohedge a sock puppet?---like reuters or the wall screed journal or moody's or obama or bush?

"zerohedge reports us intelligence (who?) confirms (how?) something".........

 

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:40 | 4970275 schnydz
schnydz's picture

hahahaha...wow slow the fuck down cowboy! ZH is just following the bread crumbs. 

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:07 | 4970143 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

What about the reports that said that the Rebeles on both sides don't have the fire power to get to 33000 feet ?

And that Putins plane is identical." Oh those reports were false. " wee better hope they are false. Otherwise this is going to get nasty

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:13 | 4970185 pcrs
pcrs's picture

Malasia is pivot in joining the TPP agreement or the ASEAN trade agreement.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 21:23 | 4971429 UnpatrioticHoarder
UnpatrioticHoarder's picture

Agreed, Malaysia would be one of Zbigniew Brzezinski's pivot states on the Grand Chessboard

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:05 | 4970135 Thought Processor
Thought Processor's picture

 

 

ZH servers have been getting hammered over the last couple of hours.  Not normal volume at all.  Way out of line.   All the signs of an ongoing DNS attack, back up servers as well.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 19:30 | 4970842 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Were those HFT workstations retasked to attack ZH rather than levitate the DOW? Clearly the DOW missed their assistance today.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:11 | 4970169 Thought Processor
Thought Processor's picture

 

 

ZH servers have been getting hammered over the last couple of hours.  Not normal volume at all.  Way out of line.   All the signs of an ongoing DNS attack, back up servers as well.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 21:25 | 4971432 UnpatrioticHoarder
UnpatrioticHoarder's picture

Tyler should archive up everything and sell it on a DVD for when TSHTF - which would be about now.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:11 | 4970170 Not Too Important
Not Too Important's picture

It is a common aircraft:

"The 777 has received more orders than any other wide-body airliner; as of February 2014, 60 customers had placed orders for 1,548 aircraft of all variants, with 1,178 delivered."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777

Although Malaysian Air does seem to be in the thick of it . . .

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:12 | 4970180 Thought Processor
Thought Processor's picture

 

 

ZH servers have been getting hammered over the last couple of hours.  Not normal volume at all.  Way out of line.   All the signs of an ongoing DNS attack, back up servers as well.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:57 | 4970072 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

Oops, duplicate.  .gov thought control bots must be spamming the site.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:53 | 4970080 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

U.S. INTELLIGENCE SAYS SURFACE-TO-AIR MISSILE FIRED PLANE

They should know, they ordered it fired, and there were two operatives standing there when the patsy fired it...

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 19:29 | 4970829 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

I doubt it was a single patsy. Maybe a false-flag team?

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:05 | 4970136 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

Sure sign of a false flag: steering the social media conversation often and early with the first supposed intelligence agency reports.

First at the gate: Ukranian Intelligence supposedly intercepts this phone conversation: http://pastebin.com/d4quutU6

Followed up an hour or so later by half-assed supposed U.S. intelligence to fit the narrative.

It's no longer a question of *IF* some governments will attempt to direct discussion on the internet for flase flags, it's only a matter of who does it first with the most effect. Western oligarchs will make sure everyone stays on message: "...Putin killed children on MH-17 (and refuses to obey the USD banking overlords) = NATO must intervene in Ukraine and fight Russian aggression.

Dear NSA/CIA: Seriously?? That's all you fucks can come up with on an eighty-billion dollar budget? We may have to look closely into outsourcing your jobs in the future - Sorry!

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:34 | 4970252 db51
db51's picture

Probably because search assets are busy looking for Obama's golf balls that end up in the rough.  

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 18:04 | 4970396 Da Yooper
Da Yooper's picture

wink

 

wink

 

nod

 

nod


Thu, 07/17/2014 - 18:29 | 4970517 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

and NORAD has a serious problems with diverted civillian planes in September

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 19:20 | 4970796 Quantum Nucleonics
Quantum Nucleonics's picture

Setting aside conspiracy theories for a moment... The detection of the missile and the plane over Ukraine was likely by an early launch sattelite called SBIRS GEO2.  It stares at the earth with an infrared camera, detecting very bright IR signatures to detect the launch of missiles.  The sattelite wouldn't have been able to detect the plane except at the moment when the missile's warhead hit the plane, likely setting off a jet fuel explosion.  Also, it's pretty easy to keep track of commercial jets as long as their transponder and sattelite links are working.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:44 | 4970036 MidwestJester
MidwestJester's picture

Oh, they CAN recover them, but they don't WANT to....

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:46 | 4970048 maskone909
maskone909's picture

i am too much of a pussy to fly. 

you couldnt pay me enough money to fly a malaysian flight.

you couldnt pay me enough money to fly a malaysian flight over UKRAINE!

 

rip to the poor souls. 

they didnt deserve it.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:55 | 4970090 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Yes, maskone909,

They did not deserve it.

 

Don't like flying?  Try Air Xanax.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:14 | 4970186 maskone909
maskone909's picture

haha thanks dochen but it would have to be a helluva lot more stronger than that.

im thinking IV dilaudid or some of that michael jackson juice

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 18:42 | 4970578 Otrader
Otrader's picture

' I pitty the fool who drugged me.  How the heck did I get here Hannibal?" - Mr. T

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 19:21 | 4970806 Quantum Nucleonics
Quantum Nucleonics's picture

You really have to wonder what the airliners are/were thinking flying that route.  An An-26 cargo plane was shot down in the same area at 21k feet just a couple days ago.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:38 | 4970005 motorollin
motorollin's picture

Same here. Last 90 minutes or so I've gotten the Drupal screen on and off.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:47 | 4970051 trader1
trader1's picture

ZH understimated the public interest in this site on the very day when the shit really hits the fan.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:21 | 4970198 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

I guess spending the Advertising money on HOOKERS and BLOW in Korfu and Mallorca is a better return on investment than extra bandwidth....eh Tylers LOL

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 19:00 | 4970700 SuperRay
SuperRay's picture

Well, damn, Tyler, hold a raffle so one of us can go with you! :-)

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:42 | 4970028 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

No problems! Everything is FINE! Nothing to see here!

Now keep talking about this news story and don't worry about Gaza...

http://zionismsucks.com/2014/07/17/israel-invades-gaza/

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 19:01 | 4970705 SuperRay
SuperRay's picture

I guess when the White House said the world was more tranquil, they meant Obama was on tranquilizers...

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 19:18 | 4970789 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

He had no choice...Hard to come down after smoking an 8 ball.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:44 | 4970037 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

Have a look at the read numbers for main articles.  Zh running this story ahead of the curve = massive server load. 

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:57 | 4970076 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Why couldn't a DNS attack exhibit the same symptoms?

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:42 | 4970284 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Occam's Razor is the most likely response.

Anytime Drudge posts a ZH link, this site wilts.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:43 | 4970291 schnydz
schnydz's picture

It could. Just depends if you're wearing your tin-foil hat or not...

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 18:19 | 4970386 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

I think DNS attacks are usually used as a type of dumb DOS attack.  You're still hitting the backend server when you get the 'website offline' message, so there's no problem with calling and hitting the site, just seems that the webserver part of (drupal, is it?) isn't serving up the page.  

Would the pages be counting views if an attack was underway?  Not sure, could be, they seem higher than normal, but this seems concurrent with a higher than normal comment response. 

In my experience, for whatever that's worth, webservers screw up quite a lot when you push them a bit (and it's unlikely ZH has a lot of fancy load balancing like CNN), but you're generally considered to be quite stupid if you're not at least a little suspicious.  In the end, all the host needs to do is check the firewall logs.

Neither outcome would surprise me in the least though.  Especially on such a fucked up day. 

 

 

It really is a fucked up day. 

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:48 | 4970057 GooseShtepping Moron
GooseShtepping Moron's picture

It's a very unusual news day and there's probably just a lot more traffic than usual. Remember, the entire internet went screeching to a halt when Michael Jackson died simply from people trying to find out if the news was true.

This should be a lesson to all of us. When the S really does HTF, the internet will not be working. Not only will everyone pile up online and clog the servers, but governments around the world will go into full electronic warfare mode and large sections of the net (including social media) will be shut down as a matter of protocol. The internet is far too complex, fragile, vulnerable, and leaky to survive a global conflict. Enjoy it while you can, but be prepared to live without it.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 18:15 | 4970442 maskone909
maskone909's picture

it will still work if you use peer to peer

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:37 | 4971898 Idaho potato head
Idaho potato head's picture

The great Johnny Winters dies......

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:11 | 4970093 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

double pene

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:58 | 4970105 WhackoWarner
WhackoWarner's picture

Happening to me as well.  Wonky.  Site not available. all the usual suspects I think.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:01 | 4970120 WhackoWarner
WhackoWarner's picture

Happening to me as well.  Wonky.  Site not available. all the usual suspects I think.Maybe NSA,Brits, Canuck "intelligence" are combing internet comments to guage reaction to all of this news today. Just to see what way the wind blows.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:35 | 4969988 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

The location depends on who the State Dept wants to frame

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:01 | 4970119 NoPantsSpongeBob
NoPantsSpongeBob's picture

International Airlines diverted their flights to fly over Russia and avoid Ukraine, which shows that perhaps the common sense is that it was not Russia who fired down the plane.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:35 | 4969990 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

They can intercept all communications and know exactly from where the missile was fired but they are not certain by whom.   Come on USSA you can do all that high tech stuff buy you SUCK at LYING

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:48 | 4970056 Frank N. Beans
Frank N. Beans's picture

I agree

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:51 | 4970071 Frank N. Beans
Frank N. Beans's picture

I agree

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:36 | 4969993 NuckingFuts
NuckingFuts's picture

A lot of problems loading ZH. Anyone else? What's up?

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:41 | 4970020 forwardho
forwardho's picture

Yeah, site unavailable or dumped while refreshing.

internal server problems.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:42 | 4970029 forwardho
forwardho's picture

Yeah, site unavailable or dumped while refreshing.

internal server problems.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:52 | 4970010 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

ZH is really buggy today

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:42 | 4970033 tonyw
tonyw's picture

The US government would never lie would it???? nor would any other government apart from all of them.

Several airliners have been shot down within the last 25 years or so, off the top of my head

Iran air by US navy ship, russian air by ukraine in 2001, TWA by russians??

 

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:46 | 4970049 tonyw
tonyw's picture

The US government would never lie would it???? nor would any other government apart from all of them.

Several airliners have been shot down within the last 25 years or so, off the top of my head

Iran air by US navy ship, russian air by ukraine in 2001, TWA by russians??

 

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:49 | 4970066 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

They can intercept all communications and know exactly from where the missile was fired but they are not certain by whom.   Come on USSA you can do all that high tech stuff buy you SUCK at LYING

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:58 | 4970374 vpanand6
vpanand6's picture

Your views are right on dot. They also new, precisely who downed MH370 and why. Yet, no clues revealed and suppressed forever. Now, even before evidence trickles in, instantly massive campaign is unleashed with an intent of blaming RUSSIA. May be to garner support from EU and NATO to point fingers at RUSSIA. Strange that, Nationalities of the Passengers is still kept under carpet for reasons best known to them!!!  

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:35 | 4971893 Idaho potato head
Idaho potato head's picture

Of course the only options are east Ukraine or Russia, couldn't be porky.
The stench is rising in visible wave. Then israel attacks etc etc......

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:32 | 4969970 Aussie V
Aussie V's picture

Yea, and his name was Dimitry and he was Ordodox.

US Intelligence, say's it all really!

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:33 | 4969972 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

'Spot the oxymoron' Thursday.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:33 | 4969974 dow2000
dow2000's picture

US Dept of Smoke and Mirrors...

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:36 | 4969999 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

"...US Intelligence detected a surface missile launch and tracked the explosion of the plane."

Oh, I thought this was the TWA 800 thread.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:33 | 4969976 dow2000
dow2000's picture

US Dept of Smoke and Mirrors...

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:34 | 4969978 KCMLO
KCMLO's picture

Not exactly tough, the BUK probably has a unique radar signature for it's search/acquisition.  They probably had signals intel on that and probably picked up the heat signature of the missile.  They're absolutely full of shit saying they can't locate the source though.  They can direction find that radar to the source.

//
Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:38 | 4970004 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

So a bunch of rebels who have either NEVER seen such equipment, or haven't seen it in 25 years if they uber old Soviet veterans, just climbed into this radar truck and started working it to shoot down a plane.

As opposed to Ukrainian regulars who use it every day.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:44 | 4970038 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

That is the PsyOp, False Narrative the Criminal UNITED STATES, CORP. INC. would like the sheeple to believe.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:53 | 4970082 daveO
daveO's picture

Here's the first thing I thought of when I heard this story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_McDonald

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 18:37 | 4970553 Otrader
Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:48 | 4970316 schnydz
schnydz's picture

Ah yes those russian commandos, I mean "rebels."

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:40 | 4970013 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

So a bunch of rebels who have either NEVER seen such equipment, or haven't seen it in 25 years if they uber old Soviet veterans, just climbed into this radar truck and started working it to shoot down a plane.

As opposed to Ukrainian regulars who use it every day.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:41 | 4970024 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

So a bunch of rebels who have either NEVER seen such equipment, or haven't seen it in 25 years if they uber old Soviet veterans, just climbed into this radar truck and started working it to shoot down a plane.

As opposed to Ukrainian regulars who use it every day.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:46 | 4970026 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

So a bunch of rebels who have either NEVER seen such equipment, or haven't seen it in 25 years if they uber old Soviet veterans, just climbed into this radar truck and started working it to shoot down a plane.

As opposed to Ukrainian regulars who use it every day.

 

Wait, I KNOW I only pressed Save once.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 18:28 | 4970512 sleigher
sleigher's picture

The syn-ack wasn't back before the request went through the NSA servers.  Sorry about that but there will be a lot of double posts today as they catch all posts.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:34 | 4969979 Aussie V
Aussie V's picture

Yea, and his name was Dimitry and he was Ordodox.

US Intelligence, say's it all really!

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:34 | 4969980 Overflow
Overflow's picture

¿Thay can track the missil impact but thy can't say where it was launched from?

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:35 | 4969982 Oscar
Oscar's picture

Putin's plane flew over the exact airspace on the same day. Coincidence?

http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:39 | 4970012 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

That story is a Russian admisssion they know their Mafia boys shot down that plane.  Russia knows all other intelligence agencies know the same thing.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:45 | 4970042 philosophers bone
philosophers bone's picture

You don't know.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:45 | 4970043 philosophers bone
philosophers bone's picture

You don't know.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:35 | 4969986 hairball48
hairball48's picture

All of which we don't know any more than we did before this report. :)

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:35 | 4969987 KCMLO
KCMLO's picture

Not exactly tough, the BUK probably has a unique radar signature for it's search/acquisition.  They probably had signals intel on that and probably picked up the heat signature of the missile.  They're absolutely full of shit saying they can't locate the source though.  They can direction find that radar to the source.

//
Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:36 | 4969994 skins1
skins1's picture

Bush did it!

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:43 | 4970034 juangrande
juangrande's picture

No, but Cheney was in charge at the bunker!

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:37 | 4970002 Overflow
Overflow's picture

So, they can track the missil impact but can't say where it was launched from... hmmm...  Come on!  Donbass must be one of the most scanned places on earth these days. 

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:51 | 4970069 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

you can bet all in that BOTH the Russians and the US know where it was launched from...

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:51 | 4970339 schnydz
schnydz's picture

Yep, the US knows. Now they are just waiting to see what the russians are willing to offer to keep it a secret. Come on folks! This is chicago politics at its finest. Nothing like a little black mail to gain the advantage. 

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:53 | 4970074 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

You can go "all in" and bet that BOTH the USA and Russia know exactly where it was launched from...

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:53 | 4970079 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

You can go "all in" and bet that BOTH the USA and Russia know exactly where it was launched from...

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:38 | 4970006 trader1
trader1's picture

malaysia airlines and its passengers are having a very bad year.

Airlines Warned About Ukrainian Airspace Before MH17 'Attack' But Continued As It Was 'Cheaper'

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/17/ukrainian-airspace-could-be-c...

 

got to love "free market" capitalism  :-P

 

 

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:47 | 4970053 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

You are SO misinformed.   If it wasn't for government inference in the market place the airlines would have been able to equip all their airplanes with the latest anti-missile technology but because the airlines are taxed to death they can't afford it, and you know where that tax money winds up?   Yeah,  in the pockets of "those people" that's where.  But you NEVER heard this on the goddamn liberal media.   You figure it out. 

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:52 | 4970344 trader1
trader1's picture

i trust you're bing snarky. ;-)

 

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:38 | 4970009 alexcojones
alexcojones's picture

Substitute the word "Dollar" now,

Whenever you hear of something Shot Down, Missing, Destroyed.

The US Dollar - Reserve Currency - will Not go gently into the good night.

The Satanist spawn will see to that

 

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:39 | 4970015 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

Bukov division of Ukrainian Armed Forces re-deployed to Donetsk area yesterday - source (Part 2)
MOSCOW. July 17 (Interfax) - According to objective control systems information, the Bukov division of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was re-deployed to the Donetsk area yesterday, an informed source said.

One more Bukov division is currently being loaded in Kharkiv, the source said.

Only 'S' class or Buk [SA-10, SA-17, NATO reporting name Grizzly] family of munitions can hit aircraft at altitudes of over 10 kilometers, the source said.

The militia does not and can not have such arms, the source said.

The Ukrainian party said earlier without holding an investigation and studying crash circumstances that the aircraft was allegedly hit by militia and allegedly from the Buk air defense system.

Meanwhile, leadership of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) said it did not rule out that the Malaysian Airlines Boeing-777 could have been brought down by Ukrainian servicemen. "Very serious clashes are ongoing in the region, where the Boeing crashed. Non-stop gunfire is under way there," DPR First Deputy Prime Minister Andrei Purgin told Interfax.

The militia does not have SA-17 Buk air defense means as Kyiv alleges, Purgin said.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:58 | 4970106 Georgia_Boy
Georgia_Boy's picture

Keep going ... At 50 kopecks per post, only 240 more until you can buy that nice pair of Levis you've had your eye on.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:03 | 4970126 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

; - ). Just posting your good Intel.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 20:03 | 4971025 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

With intense fighting going on, right now, nobody has any solid idea who has what stuff, how long the have it before it exchanges hand in battle, and the experience of who is operating it.

Fog Of War, as has already been stated. Horrible tragedies like this happen.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:39 | 4970016 KCMLO
KCMLO's picture

Not exactly tough, the BUK probably has a unique radar signature for it's search/acquisition.  They probably had signals intel on that and probably picked up the heat signature of the missile.  They're absolutely full of shit saying they can't locate the source though.  They can direction find that radar to the source.

//
Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:55 | 4970092 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

Air Defense is identified by the radars they use, which are called "Emitters".

Different emitters use different frequency ranges, but they tend to overlap.

There is also pulse modulation, which is more unique, but generally only narrows down a signal to a family of systems - Usually the 'family' has several variants that use common components common to all the 'family'.

So that leave you with a handful of candidates.   Machines can do the correlation up to that point, generally speaking.

After that you have to correlate what you know about the forces in the region to determine exactly who did it.

Yes it is technically possible to DF any electromagnetic signal, whether it is a Radar, a Radio, or a cell phone.

But we already know APPROXIMATELY where the launching battery must have been by where the aircraft was shot down, and the trajectory of the missile.

 

The GEOPOLITICAL question is this:  WAS IT RUSSIA?  WAS IT EAST UKRAINE?  WAS IT WEST UKRAINE IN A FALSE FLAG?

My instincts are to always suspect stupidity and human error before malice.  Stupid is more common than evil.

That leaves Russia or East Ukraine.

Russia would never do this on purpose.   It would work counter to all their goals with Europe.  Is it possible they made a mistake? Yes.  But not likely.  If Russian forces were helping East Ukraine they would still have full access to the Russian Early warning radar network.  They would know it was a civilian air liner, most likely.

What about East Ukraine?  East Ukraine almost certainly has a BUK.  The news headlines all point that way despite denials on both sides.  Recently West Ukraine forces advanced and took the local airfield.  EXTREMELY LIKELY that that airfileld's radar was being used for early warning by the East Ukraine BUK.  Without that early radar warning, they would have to identify targets manually. 

If they had come to rely on it, they would expect that absence of flight information on their radar meant it was a hostile military flight.   But since the supporting radars on the airfiled were taken by West Ukraine forces recently, all flights would show as hostile except those they had manually programmed their systems to recognize.

My money is that this was an error by the East Ukrainians or "New Russians".

Before you blame them... This kind of error is COMMON IN WARFARE.   Think about that next time you feel tempted to support a war.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:38 | 4970263 Z_End
Z_End's picture

Great analysis. IRT the Russians, I think if they had an issue with the aircraft, thy would have scrambled fighters instead of engaging it witha SAM. Just my 2 cents.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:59 | 4970113 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

Air Defense is identified by the radars they use, which are called "Emitters".

Different emitters use different frequency ranges, but they tend to overlap.

There is also pulse modulation, which is more unique, but generally only narrows down a signal to a family of systems - Usually the 'family' has several variants that use common components common to all the 'family'.

So that leaves you with a handful of candidates.   Machines can do the correlation up to that point, generally speaking.

After that you have to correlate what you know about the forces in the region to determine exactly who did it.

Yes it is technically possible to DF any electromagnetic signal, whether it is a Radar, a Radio, or a cell phone.

But we already know APPROXIMATELY where the launching battery must have been by where the aircraft was shot down, and the trajectory of the missile.

 

The GEOPOLITICAL question is this:  WAS IT RUSSIA?  WAS IT EAST UKRAINE?  WAS IT WEST UKRAINE IN A FALSE FLAG?

My instincts are to always suspect stupidity and human error before malice.  Stupid is more common than evil.

That leaves Russia or East Ukraine.

Russia would never do this on purpose.   It would work counter to all their goals with Europe.  Is it possible they made a mistake? Yes.  But not likely.  If Russian forces were helping East Ukraine they would still have full access to the Russian Early warning radar network.  They would know it was a civilian air liner, most likely.

What about East Ukraine?  East Ukraine almost certainly has a BUK.  The news headlines all point that way despite denials on both sides.  Recently West Ukraine forces advanced and took the local airfield.  EXTREMELY LIKELY that that airfileld's radar was being used for early warning by the East Ukraine BUK.  Without that early radar warning, they would have to identify targets manually. 

If they had come to rely on it, they would expect that absence of flight information on their radar meant it was a hostile military flight.   But since the supporting radars on the airfiled were taken by West Ukraine forces recently, all flights would show as hostile except those they had manually programmed their systems to recognize.

My money is that this was an error by the East Ukrainians or "New Russians".

Before you blame them... This kind of error is COMMON IN WARFARE.  There is even a name for it, "FOG OF WAR". 

Think about that next time you feel tempted to support a war.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:01 | 4970121 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

Air Defense is identified by the radars they use, which are called "Emitters".

Different emitters use different frequency ranges, but they tend to overlap.

There is also pulse modulation, which is more unique, but generally only narrows down a signal to a family of systems - Usually the 'family' has several variants that use common components common to all the 'family'.

So that leaves you with a handful of candidates.   Machines can do the correlation up to that point, generally speaking.

After that you have to correlate what you know about the forces in the region to determine exactly who did it.

Yes it is technically possible to DF any electromagnetic signal, whether it is a Radar, a Radio, or a cell phone.

But we already know APPROXIMATELY where the launching battery must have been by where the aircraft was shot down, and the trajectory of the missile.

 

The GEOPOLITICAL question is this:  WAS IT RUSSIA?  WAS IT EAST UKRAINE?  WAS IT WEST UKRAINE IN A FALSE FLAG?

My instincts are to always suspect stupidity and human error before malice.  Stupid is more common than evil.

That leaves Russia or East Ukraine.

Russia would never do this on purpose.   It would work counter to all their goals with Europe.  Is it possible they made a mistake? Yes.  But not likely.  If Russian forces were helping East Ukraine they would still have full access to the Russian Early warning radar network.  They would know it was a civilian air liner, most likely.

What about East Ukraine?  East Ukraine almost certainly has a BUK.  The news headlines all point that way despite denials on both sides.  Recently West Ukraine forces advanced and took the local airfield.  EXTREMELY LIKELY that that airfileld's radar was being used for early warning by the East Ukraine BUK.  Without that early radar warning, they would have to identify targets manually. 

If they had come to rely on it, they would expect that absence of flight information on their radar meant it was a hostile military flight.   But since the supporting radars on the airfiled were taken by West Ukraine forces recently, all flights would show as hostile except those they had manually programmed their systems to recognize.

My money is that this was an error by the East Ukrainians or "New Russians".

Before you blame them... This kind of error is COMMON IN WARFARE.  There is even a name for it, "FOG OF WAR". 

Think about that next time you feel tempted to support a war.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:41 | 4970019 agent default
agent default's picture

http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/

Apparently there is a rumor that Putin's plane was following a similar flight path over Ukraine today.  The implication is that they were actually trying to shoot down the presidential jet.If there is any truth in this, these people want to start a nuclear war.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:41 | 4970280 Mesquite
Mesquite's picture

Was HAARP (or it's replacement) active...??

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:47 | 4970306 trader1
trader1's picture

RT is waging a massive propaganda battle right now.  

 

putin calls malaysian pm to offer condolences after the plane tragedy.

malaysian pm gives press conference that he cannot confirm the Ukrainian version of events (that rebels shot it down inadvertently).

passports not scorched following explosion/crash.

bodies not scorched either.

 

what is 2 + 2?

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:41 | 4970025 Moccasin
Moccasin's picture

The propaganda is thicker and more stink than usual today. Just trying to sort it all out. "MOSCOW, July 17 (RIA Novosti) - A Ukrainian army battalion of Buk air defense systems was deployed near the city of Donetsk a day before the crash of a Malaysian passenger plane on Thursday, making the downing of the aircraft by one of the missiles highly probable, an expert source said. " he said, she said.... regular lies from both sides and somewhere in the middle is 'some' truth? I think they are both guilty!

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:41 | 4970027 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

US intelligence says...whatever Mossad says.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:51 | 4970032 Z_End
Z_End's picture

I bet they are divided! The Pro Hegemony crowd vs the Pro Truth crowd... The Narrative is not yet set... There may be some very interesting leaks coming out as a result of this.

Contrary to popular belief there is no Intelligence Community. It is in fact a Feudal Kingdom...

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 18:07 | 4970409 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

A collection of principalities, duchies and kingdoms then?

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:54 | 4970041 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

We need to open a new "exchange" that bets only on war. 

For lack of a more appropriate title, we'll call it the "war exchange" where deritvatives for betting on when and where wars will begin and "adversaries" both for and against

JPM and Goldman already have a hand it.  They just haven't made it go "public" yet.

I think this might be one of their customers here.   Somebody alert Mike Chertoff that he needs to come up with some additional ideas for security in airports cause the motherload of all profits from 13 years ago is about hit paydirt!

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:46 | 4970046 cn13
cn13's picture

Of course U.S. intelligence confirms it was a SAM missile.

They are the people who supplied it.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:48 | 4970058 Aussie V
Aussie V's picture

McCain has just come out and said "If this can be proven that Russian or Russian seperatists have brought down this plane that will give us the right to arm Ukraine and apply real sanctions"

His wife must rue a life of being married to a man who is, and always was, a pre ejaculator.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:52 | 4970345 blabam
blabam's picture

More deaths will solve this problem! 

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 18:10 | 4970418 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

You see those violent men over there?  We  must stop them and their violence!  How, you ask?  Through the correct and measured application of violence.  Much different from WANTON violence.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:53 | 4970073 nostromo17
nostromo17's picture

Probably Russian nuke train under path. Can't have anyone see those...

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:52 | 4970077 nostromo17
nostromo17's picture

Probably Russian nuke train under path. Can't have anyone see those...

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:10 | 4970078 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

Let's see if I have this correct:

 

The day after Russia and the other BRICs announce a viable bank to supplant the IMF and the USD as a reserve currency, a missile (supposedly) from one of the members of that new banking group takes down an airliner with 24 Americans aboard.  We are supposed to be outraged now, right?

Just call me piano - I feel like I'm being played here...

Did I miss any part of the rather obvious conspiracy here to wag the dog?

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:53 | 4970081 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Just wondering what would be the repercussions if any of those missing hand held rocket launchers from Gaddafi's Libyan collapse would be found to have taken down the airliner?

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 18:39 | 4970564 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

They'd tell you that good old Mohamar got his hands on the Stingers still floating around from 1980's Reagan-doctrine Afghanistan.  

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:06 | 4970083 Fuku Ben
Fuku Ben's picture

The SAM serial number will be provided in the next hour

Stay tuned......

Now back to our regularly scheduled cartoon Spy vs. Spy

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:54 | 4970085 Aussie V
Aussie V's picture

McCain has just come out and said "If this can be proven that Russian or Russian seperatists have brought down this plane that will give us the right to arm Ukraine and apply real sanctions"

His wife must rue a life of being married to a man who is, and always was, a pre ejaculator.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 17:11 | 4970163 Duke Dog
Duke Dog's picture

You mentioned his "wife", you are referring to Ms. Lindsey Graham, right?

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 16:56 | 4970088 Fuku Ben
Fuku Ben's picture

The SAM serial number will be provided in the next hour

Stay tuned......

Now back to our regularly scheduled cartoon Spy vs. Spy

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