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White House Statement Offers Condolences, Blames Russia, Demands "Full, Credible, Unimpeded" Investigation Into MH17 Crash

Tyler Durden's picture


The White House issued a full statement at 2238ET with regard the Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 crash following President Obama's earlier brief comments: "The United States is shocked by the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17, and we offer our deep condolences to all those who lost loved ones on board... It is critical that there be a full, credible, and unimpeded international investigation as quickly as possible... While we do not yet have all the facts, we do know that this incident
occurred in the context of a crisis in Ukraine that is fueled by Russian
support for the separatists
, including through arms, materiel, and


For Immediate Release July 17, 2014

Statement by the Press Secretary on Malaysian Airlines Flight 17


The United States is shocked by the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17, and we offer our deep condolences to all those who lost loved ones on board. We continue to seek information to determine whether there were any American citizens on board.


It is critical that there be a full, credible, and unimpeded international investigation as quickly as possible.


We urge all concerned – Russia, the pro-Russian separatists, and Ukraine – to support an immediate cease-fire in order to ensure safe and unfettered access to the crash site for international investigators and in order to facilitate the recovery of remains. The role of international organizations – such as the United Nations and the OSCE in Ukraine – may be particularly relevant for this effort, and we will be in touch with affected nations and our partners in these organizations in the coming hours and days to determine the best path forward.


In the meantime, it is vital that no evidence be tampered with in any way and that all potential evidence and remains at the crash site are undisturbed. The United States remains prepared to contribute immediate assistance to any international investigation, including through resources provided by the NTSB and the FBI.


While we do not yet have all the facts, we do know that this incident occurred in the context of a crisis in Ukraine that is fueled by Russian support for the separatists, including through arms, materiel, and training. This incident only highlights the urgency with which we continue to urge Russia to immediately take concrete steps to de-escalate the situation in Ukraine and to support a sustainable cease-fire and path toward peace that the Ukrainian government has consistently put forward.

So here we are... Ukraine blames Russian separatists, Putin blames Ukraine, USA blames Russia... and has the tapes to "prove" it


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Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:46 | 4971922 WayBehind
WayBehind's picture

Message from Putin to Obama: Next time we take down your Air Force One

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:49 | 4971939 WayBehind
WayBehind's picture

Anyone else has the feeling that it will be a very cold winter in Europe?

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:52 | 4971949 AmericasCicero
AmericasCicero's picture

If you are referring to a lack of heating gas, then yes.  If you are referring to nuclear winter...then yes.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:53 | 4971951 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Yes, this is just another FALSE FLAG to demonize Russia. 

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:21 | 4972015 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

ZH member pods had the right idea on another recent thread: get those black boxes!  If they (whoever has the black boxes now, Moscow?) let Boeing and our NTSA examine them, we might solve the mysteries.

Letting in US (and British & Malaysian) investigators would likely be able to find missile debris too, which tell us perhaps WHOSE missile it was that hit the plane...

I wonder just how transparent this investigation will be.....

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:23 | 4972017 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

I don't think there is a factual issue with it being a Russian SAM system.  All three actors in the area use the same gear so what would that prove?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:57 | 4972085 Ms. Erable
Ms. Erable's picture

It sure as hell wasn't a shoulder-fired/MANPADS weapon; the SA-18 has an operational ceiling of a little over 2 miles (11,000 feet, according to specs). If the Russians have an operational 4th-gen system, they wouldn't be handing it out to the yokels.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 04:30 | 4972303 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

I have like ten minutes for news over the next week, and this event seems significant. WTF is going on here?

p.s. am talking about this whole new crash incident - I have no idea what's going on. Was notified an hour ago...

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 06:13 | 4972402 negative rates
negative rates's picture

He wants full and credible information, I have faith they will get it.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 07:01 | 4972467 RevRex
RevRex's picture

It's funny when the Commander _in_Chimp says "credible".....

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 09:05 | 4972768 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

"We demand that this investigation be carried out to the same level of scientific rigour as the 9/11 commission!"

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 07:40 | 4972547 Nexus789
Nexus789's picture

The Ukrainan military have 4th gen missle systems. Also the plane deviated off the flight path of tracked by the previous 10 flights.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 01:16 | 4972114 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

BlindMonkey, maybe they could find serial numbers or other subtle evidence (soil samples?) that might lead to who owned or fired the missile.  Hey, I don't know..., but those crash inspectors are pretty good at their jobs.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 06:09 | 4972393 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

This is about "an Agenda."

The "actors" concerned here are already set in their ways. "Evidence" as it were is irrelevant. "What remains is the tragedy yet to unfold."

You and I are not to be involved in this I would counsel no involvement then. These are folks who have a supreme sense of self importance. But no one seems to be asking...let alone answering...toward what good?

Why should we not only not care about any of this...but why shouldn't we in fact hate everyone and everything involved in all this?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 11:39 | 4973608 r0mulus
r0mulus's picture

its true that the narrative was introduced more or less concurrently with the news of the tragedy. that takes a peculiar amount of internal concensus not typically seen in the halls of state.

war is not a forgone conclusion though. look at the peculiar case of syria. top down information heirarchies tried to push some fabricated bullshit with the pretty clearly staged* gas attacks. the decentralized information networks went into full gear and undermined it on a factual basis to the point where it became impractical for even our pathetic congress to broadly support.

if the decentralized information networks win the narrative battle against the top down information heirarchies on a public basis, ie with a critical mass of the people/sheeple, they remove the ability of the forces of empire and hegemony to hide themselves in the language/narrative of "peace and democracy", "protecting the people", "the greater good", "imminent threats", "terrorism" and other convenient facets of just war theory. the top down information heirarchies of the west prefer to rule from behind the scenes where the oppressive forces are passively implemented (ie debt society, crony capitalism, chomskian forces of "unspoken" social conformity); they require that the illusion of justness be preserved as it is their justification for power and centralization. it allows them to act. but to do this, they have to redefine language and make 2 + 2 = 5: this was the great lesson of orwell. the need for the suspension of disbelief of "2 + 2 = 5" also justifies the top down information heirarchies' need to create incidents in which they can assume this desired "just" and "humanitarian" posture. thus syria, thus gulf of tonkin, thus kuwaiti babies on the floor, thus iraqi wmds, thus tension/gladio, 9/11, 7/7, The Levon Affair, and so on and so forth.

it really almost seems like they will keep trying this kind of shit until something, anything, sticks. we in the decentralized information networks need to stay vigilant and have faith that our collective faculties of logic, skepticism, and scientific proof can prevent the top down information heirarchies from leading society astray under the pretense of false narratives.


*my point here is not that the power that be necessarily did it by their own hand, but that someone staged them and the powers that be chose not to verify the claims according to scientific method, our best current way of determining truth.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 12:08 | 4973631 r0mulus
r0mulus's picture

sorry. site is fucked , ddos or something, and tripled my post.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 12:08 | 4973649 r0mulus
r0mulus's picture

sorry. site is fucked , ddos or something, and tripled my post.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 09:52 | 4972964 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

Perhaps.  There is a photo series of the claimed captured missle system that the DPR/LPR rebels have.


Any paper trail will point to the Ukraine.  How could an investigator prove the source from the physical wreckage?  With mobile systems even data from US or Russia that would likely be inconclusive.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 10:07 | 4972966 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture


Fri, 07/18/2014 - 01:55 | 4972169 Rusty Shorts
Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:39 | 4972052 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

Zero hedge is getting hit hard, I'm having trouble trying to read and comment on this site.  Especially if I se firefox. I think that zerohedge has brought up things that they don't want brought up.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:45 | 4972068 DJ Happy Ending
DJ Happy Ending's picture

Something's up. Anyone else getting this message below?

Warning: mktime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in nodewords_extra_dc_date_prepare() (line 401 of/var/www/ZH3/sites/all/modules/nodewords/nodewords_extra/nodewords_extra.module: date(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. innodewords_extra_dc_date_prepare() (line 406 of/var/www/ZH3/sites/all/modules/nodewords/nodewords_extra/nodewords_extra.module

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 01:17 | 4972116 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

About an hour ago (when I tried putting my post up above), I had a lot of trouble too.  Past few minutes have been fine though.

Time-out for us?  ;)

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 09:15 | 4972790 Thought Processor
Thought Processor's picture


ZH was clearly under some sort of DNS attack yesterday.  


Various Gov. agencies are actively trying to control the narrative of both breaking and ongoing events with the intention of swaying and or directing public opinion.  This is all documented fact, that is that they exist and are active.

Those who have been around here long enough know what's up.  Shills and trolls are easy to spot.  

This site is being targeted, plain and simple.

The DNS attack is new though.


Welcome to the world we now live in.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 12:02 | 4973735 r0mulus
r0mulus's picture

man im glad it wasn't just me. my guess is that we are looking at some kind of implementation of HAVOK, a GCHQ JTRIG asset that does "real-time website cloning technique allowing on-the-fly alterations".
from page 8 of the JTRIG document released by the Intercept:
...which is part of this article, which strangely does not mention HAVOK, despite its awesome potential:

stay vigilant, friends. i recommend using noscript and ghostery and https everywhere as much as possible, not that they can't and won't find and log your shit down anyways. ;)

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 01:23 | 4972124 CognacAndMencken
CognacAndMencken's picture



It's tracer or "identifier" software.  Just keep doing what you're doing and ignore it.  

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 01:43 | 4972152 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

Its just very annoying 'cause I also get strange lay out, paperbag head avatars and then complete failure to open an article and infinte loading times.... but not on all articles.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 04:23 | 4972304 Bingo Hammer
Bingo Hammer's picture

Same here, last 12 hrs have been a challenge just getting onto ZH

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 05:33 | 4972363 zhandax
zhandax's picture

Last two days I have been getting flaky responses from the site.  At work and at home.  Two different browsers.  Sometimes unavailable.  Wonder if ZH interruptions are now predictive?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 06:11 | 4972397 Eirik Magnus Larssen
Eirik Magnus Larssen's picture

Let me guess: It's a conspiracy?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 09:12 | 4972785 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

How are things over at the George Bush Center for Intelligence?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 09:25 | 4972849 Thought Processor
Thought Processor's picture



Boy, there's a contradiction in terms............

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 09:54 | 4972968 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

I'm sure when they named the place, they were looking for the most ironic name imaginable.

To me it almost is similar to the liar's smile, a way of gloating about the success and effectiveness of the most outrageous and brash lies in history emanating from there.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 08:09 | 4972602 Mitzibitzi
Mitzibitzi's picture

Same here, too. Some articles will work fine, others doing all manner of weird shit - or not opening at all despite repeated attempts.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 01:04 | 4972100 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

There is no doubt that the incident will be used to demonize Russia but I don't think it's a false flag, someone on the ground fucked up and took out what they thought was a a ukrainian military plane.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 01:46 | 4972155 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

Really? A mistake with a malaysian plane of all the airlines flying that air space? Coincidences rule?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 09:07 | 4972763 tony wilson
tony wilson's picture

now it is getting weird.

the bbc just stated that a family on this plane that died yesterday  lost a sister in the last missing china sea malay plane problem.

what are the chances of that A

bbc a vital listen if you wanna nose what rothschild is thinking

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 09:24 | 4972846 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

I agree that being suspicious of coincidences is a good policy, but they still happen. I always use the logic that Ruppert used on 9/11 (very early on), which is: who profits the most from this? That tends to lead you to the answers.

A mistake is certainly feasible. By way of comparison, to me, TWA 800 looks like a US accidental shoot down because so little was decisively gained by it. I am keeping my mind open to the possibility that this was an accident.

Another few comparisons to give context on the accident side: Accidents like Piper Alpha, Bhopal, Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, all in hindsight look like an impossible succession of flukes which align to give disasterous outcomes. Only by considering the massive number of times people operate dangerous equipment while constrained by human limitations and weakness, do you get an idea of how frequently we are on the edge of more and more of these events. What I am saying is that fingers are on buttons, and those fingers are attached to people who are tired, drunk, stupid, getting a blowjob, whatever, and then bad stuff happens. The avoidable disasters can be avoided by not putting all this hardware out there.

On this shoot down, it isn't super obvious the how US/Ukrainian side clearly benefits so to me it is still within the realm of possibility.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 10:05 | 4973024 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

I have been reading and blogging for two hours; the BBC has NOT let up on the propaganda.


Fri, 07/18/2014 - 10:15 | 4973099 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

BBC was nationalised in 1926 by Winston Spencer-Churchill to be a Propaganda Channel

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 02:22 | 4972203 Bossman1967
Bossman1967's picture

No mystery here. To much going n in the last day for it to be like the other flight. Question is is what will our politicians,crooks,be doing while the spotlight is off our border. I was watching glenn Beck at 5 and his whole 1hr was on the border here.? Watch this hand over here.what a day WW3 anyone?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 05:03 | 4972339 Global Observer
Global Observer's picture

Letting in US (and British & Malaysian) investigators ...

Why should anyone let in US or UK investigators? Malaysian is understandable since it was their plane that was shotdown, bhy the US or UK?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 09:29 | 4972866 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

I assume he was being facetious in suggesting scientists with the worse record of being biased should do it. Like asking the vatican to investigate allegations of pedophilia.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 06:20 | 4972410 Jahbulon
Jahbulon's picture

At DoCHenRollingBearning - "I wonder just how transparent this investigation will be....."


If they make it as transparent as our AG does DOJ investigations then we probably won't learn much.........

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 10:18 | 4973110 mtl4
mtl4's picture

Gimme a break, you actually think anyone is going to get those flight recorders before they have been tampered with?!


False flag events are never truth telling, you need to look at the evidence.........just look at flight 93, terrorists or not that plane was clearly shot down and since when has the WH admitted to that yet?


Can't wait to see the DOJ try and assist on this one.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:34 | 4972035 conscious being
conscious being's picture

Tylers, Sacralige, links from your home page to the top 2 stories on this MH-17 event, 'Was MH-17 Diverted Over Restricted Airspace?' and ' Ukraine Releases YouTube Cip Proving ...' are no longer working. Clicking links to either story from the home page loops back to the home page!! Thanks in advance for any light you can shed on this or better yet, resolve.  This is why they'll never kill the internet. They don't need to when they can so easily manipulate the content.







Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:43 | 4972059 Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

Zh has been acting weird this evening. I had the same problem you did but it happened with any article. Now I'm getting this error message above the article title:

Warning: strtotime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in _comment_form_submit() (line 1517 of /var/www/ZH3/modules/comment/comment.module).

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:47 | 4972071 Pheonyte
Pheonyte's picture

The site has been out of whack all day, but it's really bad right now. ZH is under serious attack.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 01:16 | 4972113 edotabin
edotabin's picture

It is the ZH separatists /s

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 01:26 | 4972122 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Name the GCHQ weapon (?)

Perhaps all that extra exposure has required SUNBLOCK be applied to the PREDATORS FACE....

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:48 | 4972073 turbochef69
turbochef69's picture

LL-Could not agree more. We have been expecting it.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 10:12 | 4973080 Hohum
Hohum's picture


Yes, why does the USA assume that debris miles from the crash means the plane was shot down?  After all, Flight 93 crashed in PA with debris miles from the site and, as we all know, that plane was not shot down ;)

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 06:39 | 4972437 surf0766
surf0766's picture

Never, they are on the same side

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:48 | 4971923 ekm1
ekm1's picture

This is a clear act by Putin's mercenaries in Ukraine who didn't bother double and triple checking to avoid collateral damage.


It's clear Putin doesn't care about collateral damage, he never did.

Now the world will fear him more than before.


Putin is simply a street criminal, like bank lobby in USA.

This won't stop

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:53 | 4971946 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Yeah, it's the sepr'tists.  They hate us for our freedoms.   Fucking 'ists.  

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:53 | 4971950 AmericasCicero
AmericasCicero's picture

Good enough, bombs away!

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 01:25 | 4972127 Deathrips
Deathrips's picture

Fuck Nationalism!!

Theres some psychos of every size shape and color out there.....trying to get 7 billion people to hate eachother.


FUck EM.


Stack on...



Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:56 | 4971966 ekm1
ekm1's picture

Shooting at a ukrainian fighter jet is one thing, it's war. That happens.


Misidentifying a civilian airplane and not double and triple checking to avoid collateral damage is is animalistic.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:59 | 4971977 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Okay, 2 weeks, 8 hours guy.  I'll bite.  Which agency do you work for?  I hate you for your pension.  And go fuck yourself you fucking coward.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:00 | 4971988 ekm1
ekm1's picture

I used to comment here for 1.5 yr until May last year. Took time off

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:02 | 4971994 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

To polish your propaganda skills?  They need some work.  Let me suggest a stint at the SEC.  Lots of porn, no work, good pay.  

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 05:34 | 4972364 r00t61
r00t61's picture

I remember the original EKM.  I generally found his postings quite interesting, before he stopped posting.

This new EKM's assertion that this is the work of "Putin's mercenaries" is really off the mark, though.

Basic "cui bono" would tell us that the pro-Russian faction in the Ukraine have the least to gain and the most to lose by shooting down a civiilian plane.  And it has been pretty well established by the non-presstitute media that the entire sordid chain of events in the Ukraine started with Langley toppling the previous regime and installing its gang of literal Neo-Nazis to do its dirty work on the ground, including stealing all the gold from the Ukraine central bank.

I can't say for certain whether this is a horrific accident, or a diabolical false flag operation.  I will be very interested to hear what people like Paul Craig Roberts and Jim Willie and Pepe Escobar have to say on the matter.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:03 | 4972000 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Actually Rand this is the second incarnation of EKM. He was a frequent poster, but then he kicked himself off the front porch.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:21 | 4972006 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Was he as douchie then as he is now?  P.S.  I was unable to access this site while logged in for the last 20 minutes.  I went to a different browser, and was able to view the articles only while not logged in.  I checked the clock, and it was 13'oclock when I was able to regain access.  Certainly not a ZH issue, because ZH was up for the not-logged-in.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:26 | 4972020 Gaius Frakkin' ...
Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

I've been having issues too. Trying to install Tor, but too drunk and not caring that much. I'm in a "Just let WWIII happen" kind of mood tonight.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:28 | 4972026 PeakOil
PeakOil's picture

Ditto on your browser experience this evening. Very strange.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:35 | 4972041 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

A message for the NSA.  A little Ray Charles.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:05 | 4972009 ekm1
ekm1's picture


Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:38 | 4972049 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
..........''...\.......... _.·´

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 01:33 | 4972134 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture
Fri, 07/18/2014 - 07:10 | 4972486 RevRex
RevRex's picture

Why do IDIOTS judge posters by how long they have ben posting?


LetThemEatRand appears to be the idiot in this conversation.


How moronic.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 08:48 | 4972718 Serenity Now
Serenity Now's picture


The answer is because they are idiots.

LetThemEatRand is not always an idiot, but he's always an asshole.

Either way, he should have known that ekm was the original EKM.  I knew it right off the bat.  

But then again, I'm a lot smarter than LetThemEatRand.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:59 | 4971983 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

It's also an accusation which requires proof instead of speculation.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:03 | 4971997 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

Perhaps you are unaware of Operation Northwoods?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:18 | 4972010 Gaius Frakkin' ...
Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

History hates us for our freedumbs. I move for a War On History.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:26 | 4972023 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

Already underway.  Keep you history books in good shape and try to get an early copy of a good encyclopedia.  That will be gold soon.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 01:53 | 4972166 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

Yet to see this in so called prepper guides. Your hard copy books are the last bit of history and knowledge you can pass on.

Forget kindle and internet searches - hard copies are essential.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 09:35 | 4972888 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

The online world is a dream for Minitrue. Saves so much money on fuel for book burnings.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 01:15 | 4972091 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

That's just stupid.

An airplane is an airplane.

An airplane can be yours, theirs, or someone else's.

You either identify it correctly, or incorrectly.

"double and triple checking to avoid collateral damage" is non nonsensical, a non sequitur, tactically foolish, and frankly stupid.

You follow the damn instruction manual, and act according to official procedures and your orders.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 02:52 | 4972245 ebear
ebear's picture

""double and triple checking to avoid collateral damage" is non nonsensical, a non sequitur, tactically foolish, and frankly stupid."

so is flying over an active war zone where aircraft were previously shot down.

so what's up with that?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 06:01 | 4972383 RadioactiveRant
RadioactiveRant's picture

Given how man flights pass over the Middle East to refuel at AUH, DXB, and DOH what would you suggest?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:59 | 4972092 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture


Fri, 07/18/2014 - 01:16 | 4972111 gearbaby
gearbaby's picture

You mean like the U.S. did to an Iranian commercial airliner in 1988.

Damn, you Americans have a short, selective memories

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 01:20 | 4972119 edotabin
edotabin's picture

As posted above by Gaius, we have freedumbs. The dumb are running free everywhere.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:58 | 4971972 Gaius Frakkin' ...
Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

I assume the spook-bots are consuming a lot of resources this evening.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:05 | 4972007 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

I would upvote you but I don't have time because my pressure cooker is about to explode from the boston beans we are cooking.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 09:39 | 4972901 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

Yeah, I was too busy ordering ammonium nitrate online while running my flight simulator.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:02 | 4971981 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Hey EKM1, notice that you are a member of ZH for at least 2 weeks and 8 hours. 

I only thing I dislike more than mindless Trolls are dumb Ukies who waste their time demonizing Putin while allowing their crappy country to be destroyed by Oligarchs and CIA stooges, hoping  that the EU will give them visa free travel.  Good luck with that!

After the IMF and your criminal oligarchs are finished raping the country, your parents will be eating out of garbage cans, your daughters will be their whores, and you and your sons will be sent to die in foreign countries, bleeding out in the dirt while the oligarchs laugh collecting their billions.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:28 | 4972025 Protokletos
Protokletos's picture

You're just teeming with bitterness.  Say, have you been suffering from Oligarchy rule elsewhere?!    

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:58 | 4972088 turbochef69
turbochef69's picture

You go girl

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:01 | 4971992 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

In any war, the loser becomes a criminal. 

But you're premature.  This war is fought with spigots.  I think Russia is going to win. 

And so someone else will be the criminal.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:29 | 4972032 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

ekm1 - You must be right; it has nothing to do with the U.S. backing a neo-Nazi putsch in Kiev, or the U.S. Military Industrial Complex, or banksters in Brussels, or Malaysian Airlines flying a passenger jet directly over a known war zone to what - save on fuel costs?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 06:09 | 4972391 RadioactiveRant
RadioactiveRant's picture

Why is the US to blame for the Ukraine in-part wanting to join the EU? Its a fairly divisive issue in every country, including most current member states. Flying over hostile areas is fairly normal because targetting civilians is something usually only undertaken by Israel, and very few have access to the technology to strike passenger jets at cruising altitude.

If you're going to bitch about the USA at least make it for valid reasons like the funding (to the tune of US$3bn a year) of a terrorist state breaching international law, founded by attacking their other allies (UK) using the same tactics they now deem unacceptable.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 10:19 | 4973117 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

They key components Ukraine signed up to were:  to join the Security Apparatus of the EU  ie NATO.  The Maidan Protestors thought they were getting FREE MOVEMENT of people but they will never get that.....instead they will get to see their energy inefficient industry shut down and subsidised energy disappear

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 02:24 | 4972205 Eahudimac
Eahudimac's picture

Keep trying dude. If you keep fucking that wet cheerio long enough, you will eventually break it. 

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 06:52 | 4972449 Serenity Now
Serenity Now's picture

Hey ekm!  Welcome back!  

Russia has already shot down several Ukraine military planes / helicopters.  Russia also has a history of shooting down passenger jets.  Without apology.

I'm sure you know that.  What you may not know is that ZH has changed a lot since you left.  I'm glad you're back.  I always enjoyed your posts.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:46 | 4971924 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Yeah let's have a real investigation. Just like 911.

Oh by the way, how's the Gaza invasion going?

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:57 | 4971968 SamAdams
SamAdams's picture

Word is independents have the black boxes.  Sorry obomba....

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:47 | 4971925 One And Only
One And Only's picture

This statement after Obama's temper tantrum that shut down the white house.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:56 | 4971967 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

I thought Michelle locked him out of the White House when she found his nude selfies with the Danish Prime Minister chick...

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:03 | 4971999 Ms. Erable
Ms. Erable's picture

HA! As if TOTUS would be caught in bed with a woman.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 10:00 | 4972990 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

TOTUS: Girls?? Yuck!

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 09:48 | 4972941 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

Those would be photoshopped nude selfies. I think the closest he got to Thoring-Schmidt was a fully clothed selfie. By the looks of the same photos showing Michelle, you can bet the riding crop got good use when they got home that night.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:47 | 4971926 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Will this be before or after Slappy Obama goes into his comedy skit. 

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 02:09 | 4972185 RECISION
RECISION's picture

Wow, yeah...

BamBam demands huh...!!!

So a non US airline, over a non US country, gets collateralled in a non US conflict...

But - BamBam DEMANDS....

Oooh... scary.


Fri, 07/18/2014 - 02:17 | 4972199 Eahudimac
Eahudimac's picture

Seriously. He and holder should paint their faces white and perform vaudville acts in a traveling circus.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:48 | 4971935 syntaxterror
syntaxterror's picture

Let me be clear, as president, make no mistake, with our partners, we will [insert more meaningless bullshit here].

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:48 | 4971937 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Is the Warren Commission still available?!

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:57 | 4971942 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

We don't have all the facts but we blame Russia. And now for a few introductory jokes...... How about that Joe Biden?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:01 | 4971991 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

absolutley classic.

Necessary Illusions all around us.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:29 | 4972028 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

Barry went all out with the red lines blaming Assad before knowing the facts.  Accuations page 1, retractions page 20 under the fold.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:35 | 4972040 Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

Tonight the airport shuttle driver had Mark Levin's show on the radio so we all had to listen to Levin shrieking about that "fascist Putin". He must be the world's worst talk show host because he never learned the basics about studios and microphones. At times you can hardly hear him murmuring which is followed by his cacophonous voice at full volume. The shuttle driver eventually got tired of adjusting the volume and changed the station to, unfortunately, Klezmer music. I need another drink.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:47 | 4972069 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Fuck Levin, he's another neo-con war pig. I'm sure he and Rush Limburger will be pounding the table for war getting the dumb ass 'conservatives' all worked up.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 09:57 | 4972974 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Dupe. DOS Attack.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 09:56 | 4972981 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

If Reggie is not available, Bath House calls Rush. Unless Beck is there first.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 02:16 | 4972196 Eahudimac
Eahudimac's picture

Levine is justy another Zionist pig. I used to listen to him on my way home form work. I can't stand to listen to him anymore. Class A asshole. 

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:52 | 4971948 BiteMeBO
BiteMeBO's picture

Nyet gonna happen


Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:55 | 4971960 ForWhomTheTollBuilds
ForWhomTheTollBuilds's picture

Am I wrong thinking that its significant that the US calls for a total ceasefire?  It seems like everyone except the US has wanted a ceasefire until now.  The Ukraine leadership cancelled a ceasefire while the Russians begged them to keep it. Whats changed?

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:58 | 4971976 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

They want a ceasefire because most Uke govt forces are in a cauldron and facing complete wipeout.  After that its an unimpeded cakewalk into Kiev.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:26 | 4972022 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

But but but, says the IMF, you are still gonna pays us, right?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 02:01 | 4972179 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

The nazi have drawn lots of blood

But it is not enough to satisfy

The orange witch of the west.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:43 | 4972060 Treason Season
Treason Season's picture

''After that its an unimpeded cakewalk into Kiev.''

Extremely flippant and not backed by some facts worse.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 09:17 | 4972811 tony wilson
tony wilson's picture

youse is wrong dere.

my nefew kinfolks is dere buzz is his name cannots gives his seconds name for securatitee.

buzz is in seal team six he luck he der only survivers of der bin landin helicopters landin funeral.

he tells me we in der pentatgram washingtons and israel is winnin.

it meant to looks like a cold un a calldron codrun but it a trap init.

buzz says once we slaughter all der folks in derr coldron cheney wants dem to head for a frontal atack on moscow which he says is down der bottom of der road ways.

we winnin for der eagle and der rapin rabbis

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:56 | 4971964 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I was once a little ball of clay "Gumby". 

  Let's see what gumby can do today? (Gumby)

  Gumby and his pony pal Pokey can do anything! (Gumby)

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:38 | 4972045 Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

Wait, I've got an old box of Colorforms Stick Ons around here somewhere....Hey! They work on monitors too. Kewl.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 03:13 | 4972265 ebear
ebear's picture

Coliform will stick on just about anything, which is why you should always wash your hands after using the internet.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:58 | 4971978 Overdrawn
Overdrawn's picture

An exercise in cynicism,


Does the public really want politicians / Governments offering their shallow, insincere condolences at times like this?

We all know many of these politicians are criminals who are equally prepared to murder large numbers of civillians to further their own agenda 9/11, 7/7, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc.

So please, do us all a favour and stop insulting the dead and their families.

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:59 | 4971979 Ms. Erable
Ms. Erable's picture

A full investigation? Good - that means cross-referencing the engines and other serialized item numbers against those of MH370, right?

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:59 | 4971980 agNau
agNau's picture

Let's fix that statement.
After Russian support for separatists, add "and US support for Ukraine, including false and misleading reports of events to US citizens and any other gullible people outside the US."

Thu, 07/17/2014 - 23:59 | 4971984 Ray Donovan
Ray Donovan's picture

The whole situation stinks.  What would Russia gain by shooting down this plane? Does not make sense to me.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:00 | 4971987 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Just like the "Justus" department and the police state, proclaim a person's guilt, then discuss the investigation.  Good thing we don't have anything like the presumption of innocence any longer.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:02 | 4971995 salvadordaly
salvadordaly's picture

It's a good thing that the seperatist got to the the black box before Ukraine. Sit on that till the US has blown it's wad. Then release all the info when the amature in charge has declared who is resonsible. Damn it's like holding a royal flush and building up the pot without cracking a smile!

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:21 | 4972014 franzpick
franzpick's picture

O'Goebbels will 'get to the bottom of this', and if he doesn't get the desired result, he will 'reach around' to provoke the responce he wants.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:24 | 4972018 Aussie V
Aussie V's picture

I have never seen a Political leader react or act like the knuckle Dragger we have here in Oz atm.

Straight away Putin and Russia was guilty!! "even though we need to wait for all the evidence to come in"

I have never seen such ignorant behaviour by a Country's Leader before and to do it immediately and repeatedly. He acts more like a 19 yr old Mobster than an intelligent leader. Such a fuckwiT!

They want war and they are gonna get it. make your plans and keep your young men close.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 03:10 | 4972263 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

Aussie V they get the same speeches... guess it makes them feel important spouting about stuff far from home y'know punching above their wait and all that. Its not so new eg

Stephen Harper and Oz Prime Minister John Howard SAME SPEECH - YouTube

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 08:07 | 4972600 Aussie V
Aussie V's picture

Yea I saw that about a week ago. A M A Z I N G !!!

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 03:21 | 4972277 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

It's the drumbeats of war from dumbfucks who don't understand what an uncontrolled fission-fusion-fission reaction does to people and infrastructure.  But then again, most people are dumbfucks who don't care to pay attention to what's going on and prefer to be spoon-fed, so it might be effective.  OTOH, a lot of people are sick of war without really thinking about the why, so...


But, you know what?  Fuck it.  The glass is half full.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 03:35 | 4972289 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

Baby we're also the head of the UN Security Council... what power beats the drums not usually in our hands and we head the G20... spot a pattern, I do, I do!!!

Watching the B20 right now headed by another Aussie traitor


Fri, 07/18/2014 - 05:06 | 4972345 UselessEater
UselessEater's picture

B20 now releasing a waffling doublespeak statement.

For one it does not coherently address the free movement of labour globally that will apparently not result in a wage drop mentioned in their brief (much like free trade worked out so well)

Primed early with this B.S. about mobile cheap labour...

GE Mining chief executive Steve Sargent, chairman of the B20 Human Capital Taskforce, said free movement across borders of capital and labour would be an important factor in global growth.

"We're seeing larger mismatches of labour supply and labour demand, requiring the ability of skills and labour to move FREELY across borders," Mr Sargent said.

He said that did not have to mean cheaper labour, because demand for skills would drive wages and wage parity would be achieved in many jobs between China, India, Western Europe and the United States within a decade.

Then they announce this version of UK sitcom Yes Prime Minister babble.... decipher if you can and share.


Fri, 07/18/2014 - 09:52 | 4972963 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Backdoor Barry will have a hard dick up his ass in a thousand-foot bunker when the Shitstorm strikes.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:37 | 4972024 GooseShtepping Moron
GooseShtepping Moron's picture

I'll be reserving judgment on this matter until we know a little more. As much as I would not like this to be the case, I am willing to admit that it might have been pro-Russian forces in East Ukraine who fired the fatal missile. Might have been. If that is the case, I am virtually certain that they did so accidentally, that they never meant to take down a civilian aircraft.

Given the above, I am most disturbed by the American media's full court press to blame Putin personally for this tragedy and to insist that it was done with malice aforethought. Megan Kelly repeatedly stated on her show tonight that 295 people, including 23 Americans, were murdered, most likely by shadowy Russian paramilitary spec-ops in East Ukraine.

Now, this is an absolutely ludicrous thing to say. As any first year law student knows—hell, as any regular viewer of Law & Order knows—"murder" means homicide with criminal intent. Proving criminal intent is part of proving a murder charge, and if the prosecuter cannot do this than the charge of murder has to be dropped. If the Malaysian aircraft was shot down accidentally, then clearly whoever shot it down is not guilty of murder. Megan Kelly knows this full well, since she is a trained lawyer, practiced law for nine years, and regularly does legal analysis for Fox News.

Even if Russia had been involved, it is hard to say how this rises to level of anything more than a most unfortunate accident of the sort which inevitably happens in war. Responsible people know that wars, no matter how carefully fought, bring with them much collateral damage and hardship for the civilian population, which is why they fight them only reluctantly. Putin has been trying to contain the Ukrainian unpleasantness as much as his position and duties allow him to. He certainly has not been escalating it, so why is he to blame?

Furthermore, American media and political mouthpieces have already constructed a narrative that situates this disaster in the context of Putin's supposed territorial ambitions. Let us remember that we are talking about a region that already voted by referendum to join Russia and that Russia has so far refrained from annexing it. Does that sound like strident territorial ambition on Russia's part? Why would Putin strive to accomplish by an act of international terrorism the same thing he could have easily done months ago with the stroke of a pen?

The case against Russia makes no sense at all, but the media and political elites are already shaping the narrative in that direction.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:58 | 4972089 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

The issue, when all is said and done or ignored, is that winter is coming.

Simply that.  Totally that.  Ukraine can't prepay what they must.  Winter is coming and the EU doesn't want to fund it.

Putin just needs to let time pass.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 01:56 | 4972173 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

That's why the empire is trying so hard to get Russia to attack something.

Winter is coming. Makes me break out in song:


"It's forty below

and I don't give a fuck

Got a heater in my truck

and I'm off to the rodeo.


It's an allemande left 

and an allemande right

come on you fuckin dummy

get your right step right

get off the stage

you goddam goof ya know


Piss me off

Fuckin jerk

Get on my nerves.


Well here comes Johnny

With his pecker in his hand

He's a one ball man

And he's off to the rodeo


It's an allemande left..."

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 02:10 | 4972187 Eahudimac
Eahudimac's picture

Dr. Dirty! Used to play State College PA all the time int he 90's. 

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 01:26 | 4972128 edotabin
edotabin's picture

The real war is in the media. How else can they garner support for their schemes?  I call it fractional reserve truth (if any in this case)

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 01:29 | 4972133 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

The propaganda is going to be swirling so thick from all sides that no objective person will know what to believe without access to inside knowledge.  What to take away from that:  Don't step foot onto a plane flying over a war zone.  

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 07:19 | 4972502 Alea
Alea's picture

First victim of war is always the truth

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 08:34 | 4972677 Buster Cherry
Buster Cherry's picture

Well said GSM.

That president that we're stuck with is doing nothing but destroying our contry's standing in the world community with his constant demands for this and that.

Mr. Putin is no saint, but from my point of view he has maintaned the appearance of being the coolest head in this conflict in that part of the world (which I still don't understand what our interest there is). He mearly governs his country and allows events to occur on his own, and as it turns out, to his advantage.


Russia has a leader. We have an embarrassment.

I pray for those  poor folks on that plane, and if this was an accident, then I extend those prayers to those that pulled the trigger. But if this was a setup to further escalate this stupid "who has the bigger dick" show, this I pray God sorts it out soon.

I pray our kids serving in the armed forces will do the same as they did when the Syria build up happened last year, and hold those signs over their faces that say: "I did not join the military to get involved in a Ukrainian civil war!"

I was very proud of that Navy Master Chief Petty Officer that started that photo campain.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 00:28 | 4972027 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Is it me, or is this site fucked tonight? I've been having issues all day.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!