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Pentagon Says "Strains Credulity" That Jet Shot Down Without Russian Aid - Live Feed

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While admitting that he has no evidence, Pentagon Press Secretary John Kirby offered his opinion in today's press conference:


But still no proof... and then this - *'WE JUST DON'T KNOW' WHO FIRED SA-11 MISSILE AT PLANE: KIRBY


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Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:18 | 4974194 cossack55
cossack55's picture

The fuckin' Pentagon strains budgets.  Remember the "5:00 O'clock follies.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:22 | 4974220 john39
john39's picture

The Pentagram itself strains credulity...

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:40 | 4974294 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:46 | 4974334 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture



It strains credulity that anyone in this administration would ever tell the truth about anything...



Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:48 | 4974370 Gaius Frakkin' ...
Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

Oh, okay... is that the same Pentagram that shot down Iran Air Flight 655?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:50 | 4974388 pods
pods's picture

Hey Runmie, where did that 2 TRILLION bucks go?


Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:01 | 4974445 quintago
quintago's picture

But we do know it was an SA-11.

So we know it was in the Ukraine, with a SA-11. Now we just need to figure out the who. I'm guessing the one that appears to have figured out the first 2, probably knows the final piece of the puzzle.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:14 | 4974524 Patriot Eke
Patriot Eke's picture

The real question that needs answering is how accurate the following is.  Wouldn't the BUK launcher need radar support and a trained crew?  Didn't the Kiev forces have an entire unit of BUK launchers in the region too?  Which is more likely then?  Was it Russian separatists with a single launcher without radar support or the Kiev military unit of multiple launchers with radar support?  The answer seems pretty simple to me.

"And finally, as RT reported, the national governor of the Donetsk region, Pavel Gubarev, admitted that while the separatists indeed are in possession of one BUK missile unit, it is not operational, and even if it was, it would be unable to reach a height of over 30,000 feet without central radar guidance which the Donetsk region does not have, once again suggesting that a Surface to Air Missile, if indeed one was used, came from the Ukraine side. Surely it will be very easy for international monitors to validate this report."

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:18 | 4974566 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

I think the real question is what do the separatists have to gain by shooting down a civilian airliner? What do the Russians stand to gain by doing that? Now, what does the new puppet government in Ukraine, or the U.S. stand to gain?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:23 | 4974590 fleur de lis
fleur de lis's picture

cui bono?

NWO et al


Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:30 | 4974630 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

2 trillion dollars went to buy seaside villas on Mediterranean islands with open concept layouts and granite kitchen counter tops from which to snort the BLOW.  Then the Spanish tile and infinity pool mosaics not to mention stocking the pool full of hookers costs mucho dineros.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:26 | 4974922 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

The British authorities were aware that a German submarine was in the path of the Lusitania, but failed to divert the ship to a safer route.

They also failed to provide a destroyer escort, although destroyers were available in a nearby port.

The ship was ordered to reduce speed in the war zone, for reasons that have been kept secret ever since.

How did such a big ship sink so quickly from a single torpedo strike with no munitions aboard as reported by the British government?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:29 | 4974937 SoilMyselfRotten
SoilMyselfRotten's picture

It also strained crdulity that Assad didn't do the gassing.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:31 | 4974639 piratepiet
piratepiet's picture

Did you consider the possibility the plane was not recognized as civilian ? 

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:43 | 4974696 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

Sure, could have been a Ukrainian military plane going from one part of the country to another. At 33,000 feet.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:03 | 4974790 piratepiet
piratepiet's picture

The people who decided to shoot it did not necessarily spot it that much in advance.  And can military planes not fly at 33 000 feet ? 

I am not saying I know who shot this plane, even if it was shot at all.  But most people here seem to not even want to consider the possibility it was shot by accident.  It has to be some sort of false flag, along the lines of "The CIA must have done it !"  I would call that overinterpretation.   All rooting for war  ? 

I agree that common folks like most of us will never know for sure what really happened in such instances and yes governements and people do lie, but what is most likely ?  A false flag ?  Not in my opinion. 

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:28 | 4974931 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

Sure a military plane could fly at 33,000 feet. But I doubt it would to go maybe 300 miles at most as that would take it about half way across the entire country. Just guessing there.

Yes, I agree, too many in here look for the nearest conspriacy theory. And I do think it could have been an accidental shooting. Shoot first, ask questions later, especially if you have a new toy.

It's just after all the other wars we started on what turned out to be totally bogus, made up lies masking that we really go to war for profit, it is the default assumption for many of us.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 16:58 | 4975344 ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

Would a supply ship  be at 30,000 feet, in the destination zone and bumping up against the Russian border?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:46 | 4974709 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

A BUK-M1 consists of three different vehicles.

1) An Early Warning/ Target Acquisition Radar vehicle - this is the part that tells you what you are firing at.

2) A Transporter Erector Launcher (TEL) This part only fires missiles.

3) A Transporter Erector Launcher And Radar (TELAR) This part paints the targets for itself and the TELs, and it also fires missiles.


The photos of their 'BUK" the Separitists posted last month were pictures of a TELAR.  If the TELAR didn't have access to its Early Warning/Target Acquisition Radar it would not be able to differentiate between enemy and friendly - THAT IS WHAT THAT RADAR IS FOR.

But decide for yourself.  Just do a search.  There are lots of pictures of the TELAR vehicle in the BUK-M1 system on the internet. Find one and then compare with the Separatist postings from last month.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 18:05 | 4975528 Sirius Wonderblast
Sirius Wonderblast's picture

The fact is, even at 33000 ft, from the ground,by eye, twin engine airliners look a lot different from the 4 engine strategic bombers that Ukraine doesn't have. Furthermore, they have transponders so everyone knows they're civilian. And, being jets, they leave contrails  that the turbo prop bomberrs wouldn't. So, quite an east mistake to make, really.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 19:00 | 4975684 Razor_Edge
Razor_Edge's picture

Sorry, prop engines leave contrails too.....formed by hot exhaust gases into freezing ambient temps.

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 02:55 | 4976507 conscious being
conscious being's picture

Quintago - Could have been a bomb!!

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:18 | 4974563 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

To finish the DUMBs.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:50 | 4974379 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture


This, coming from a government that has openly declared it has the right to kill anyone it unilaterally declares to be an enemy of the state, anywhere on the planet.  Talk about "straining credulity"...

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:36 | 4974301 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

The Pentagram itself strains credulity...

That "pentagram" and the Navy piece-of-shit mouth piece that is lying for them will be straining more than "credulity" when a few hundred Bulavas fly up his and everyone elses ass in the Continental United States experiencing it's first all year round winter "ever" -should they be allowed to take it to that extreme!

Self-loathing at being an American doesn't begin to capture the essence of this ultimate of manufactured crisis of our own choosing.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:48 | 4974371 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

USS Vincennes needed no Russian help to down an Iranian airliner.........

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:03 | 4974473 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

So true.

But that was 1988 and we've had quite a lot of self-inflicted gunshot wounds over the past 25 years in the policy making arena.  Just ask the guys that keep coming home on their PTSD meds?!!!

Think "Maverick" and "Goose" need a rest, and i'm almost as certain the ones with half a brain will tell you so themselves given the challenge we're now creating for ourselves given the opponent.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 16:54 | 4975259 bitterwolf
bitterwolf's picture

Self-hater or non-american ,you are deluding yourself ,"challenge of opponent",pray tell ,who is this opponent that can prevent the pentagram from freedom of manuever ,that is shaping the battlefield to their advantage vs. the western elites's?

Percieved moral highground is a poor tactical/strategic advantage in this very old game. I would suggest WILL to fight coupled with unlimited CASH and other worldly TECHNOLOGICAL advantage.


Fri, 07/18/2014 - 16:17 | 4975180 Abbie Normal
Abbie Normal's picture

...and both the CO and the Weapons Officer received medals for their acts.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:39 | 4974318 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

The Pentagon is full of shit and strains on the toilet.

Too much life of luxury.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:49 | 4974378 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

The Pentagon even has a landing zone for civilian airliners but cannot reveal details

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:26 | 4974604 fleur de lis
fleur de lis's picture

The Pentagram is jam packed wall to wall full of unAmerican sissies. All they are good for is huffing and puffing, and collecting big paychecks for nothing, and getting everybody else killed.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:05 | 4974484 my_nym
my_nym's picture

The whole Kabbalistic System Inc. of the cabal has always strained credulity: 

Ships are sunk IN ORDER TO HAVE SHIPS SUNK. When ships are sunk, there is a greater demand for new ships. The sinking augments the MARKET for new ships. More ships are wanted because more ships have been destroyed. And LOAN CAPITAL, usurer’s capital, money made by a stroke of the banker’s pen is wanted for FINANCING new construction. Arabs are murdered to keep things lively. Cities are destroyed IN ORDER that cities may be destroyed. The frontier means nothing to the financier. The MORE houses fall on BOTH sides of the frontiers, the more loan-capital will be wanted so long as the usurocrat system endures; so long as the usurocrat system endures, the more loan capital will be required to finance reconstruction. The more simple people are ruined, the more bankruptcies, the more bankrupt concerns can be snapped up cheap by the owners of loan capital. Has NO one ever examined the reconstruction period, the period after the American Civil War? from this angle?

With race or without race, examine it. The more energy goes into destroying goods, the less will go into making them. The more energy goes into goods intended for immediate destruction, the less will go into goods made for USE. The faster you destroy goods, the faster superfluous money will mount up, unless you employ a Gesellite or similar mechanism to destroy the money as fast as the goods are blown to hell or sunk in the oceans. Without Gesell that means inflation; i.e. a dollar worth ten cents worth of potatoes.

Debt is already upon you. Some of you know that. But 99% of you don’t see that the DEFLATION, the contraction of the currency, is already PLANNED. That the same banking houses that have worked the wheeze four times and more times are already waiting their moment to spring.

If there is a sane man or an honest man left in America, let him get out a new edition of the Bankers Conspiracy. .....

Iran or Persia had mentioned wanting to control its own banking and currency. The light of hither Asia? Perhaps.

On June 19, 1934 a gent, now I believe in jail in the U.S.A., wrote me from Ashville, after professing disinterest in European personalities as follows:

The working out of the problems of America is exactly along the policy of constructively eliminating the power of money as money (it is absurd that the medium of exchange should have value in itself); scrapping the banking system and the international warplots; and installing a currency which will provide an equal balance between the capacity of industry to produce and the ability of the public to buy.

If that be treason, go to it. My correspondent continued:

It is as simple as this, but will not be accomplished until the present time worn system, capitalized upon by the Rothschilds, Ginsbergs, Sassoons, Warburgs, etc., in their century-long plot (already fighting among themselves for the loot) collapses of its own worthlessness.

My correspondent believed in the American Constitution, and mistrusted Jefferson, retrospectively. The ideal political prisoner, I suppose. And the Commonwealth Party. What is it? Is it a real party? Does it stand for the just price and the homestead, or is it just another fake opposition set up and financed by the financiers? ....

There is manifestly no freedom without economic freedom. Freedom to keep out of debt.  

Ezra Pound

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:37 | 4974665 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

It also strains credulity that a bunch of cave dwelling mujahideen with minimal flight training penetrated the most secure airspace in the world and pulled off a perfect descending corkscrew turn to impact the exact spot in the Pentagon where the audit team was meeting to discuss the missing trillions of dollars that had been admitted to the previous day, leaving a perfect missile shaped hole in the wall with zero airplane debris, and having no video of the event ever made available publicly. But you don't hear us bitching about that, do you?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:53 | 4974733 Osmium
Osmium's picture

Don't forget about bodies and luggage.  Wait, I forgot.  All that stuff just vaporized at impact.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 17:52 | 4975486 logicalman
logicalman's picture

But a passport survived!

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 09:26 | 4976696 Idaho potato head
Idaho potato head's picture

While admitting he has no evidence ....... Nuff said?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:23 | 4974226 NemoDeNovo
NemoDeNovo's picture

We really are in LaLa Land now, I mean this shit is so freakin' surreal I no longer have words to describe this Orweillian nightmare.


Bring on the collapse!!!!!!

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:34 | 4974289 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Yes, I remember a few years ago when Geoff Morrell — formerly of ABC — was the Pentagon press secretary. But he has since moved on to BP. Wonder where Kirby will end up after his stint.

The rabbit hole is bottomless.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:23 | 4974234 junction
junction's picture

Obama has ordered the removal of the desk message plate on his desk in the Oval Office that says "THE BUCK STOPS HERE."  Too close to THE BUK STOPS HERE.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:20 | 4974199 Thought Processor
Thought Processor's picture




Spin it boys...........

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:23 | 4974235 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

The Pentagon is now getting in on the propaganda fun?

This is just plain 'piling on', as I see it.

Next Headline:  Four legs good, two legs better.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:20 | 4974205 magpie
magpie's picture

This will end exactly like the gas attacks in Syria by the US-allied rebels.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:20 | 4974206 czarangelus
czarangelus's picture

We might not know who shot down the airliner, but we sure as fuck know who levelled whole neighborhoods in Slavyansk with artillery.

Fuck the selective outrages of the media.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:20 | 4974210 souljaboy
souljaboy's picture

BREAKING: Shots fired by rebels at international team of investigators (OSCE) in Ukraine as they approach plane wreckage, via @KiritRadia

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:27 | 4974616 Coletrane
Coletrane's picture

perfect honeypot

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:21 | 4974212 TabakLover
TabakLover's picture

Sorry to ask again, does all ths Russia blaming keep the gas flowing to Ukraine and or Europe this winter?  Unless we are planning on invading Russia to get the gas.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:23 | 4974227 john39
john39's picture

the elites will have heat, that is all...

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:36 | 4974300 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

After the bankers get the frozen corpses evicted from their former homes, the heat will come back on and they'll live happily ever after.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:04 | 4974794 bitterwolf
bitterwolf's picture

Everyone has their role to play, and elites have stand ins to take heat,become patsy...always...

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:22 | 4974218 Pheonyte
Pheonyte's picture

So we're back to the evil empire routine. Gotta dump more dollars into the MIC to keep back them rooskies.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:31 | 4974280 PoliticalRefuge...
PoliticalRefugeefromCalif.'s picture

Hard to turn the ship on a dime with all the distractions the Republicans are creating, gotta develop some patience- he'll get there, it's not his first rodeo.

..well, yeah even after six years I guess it might be his first.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:22 | 4974225 agent default
agent default's picture

Why the fuck would the Russians want to down an airliner to begin with? This is what strains the credulity of anything coming out of the US.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:27 | 4974259 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Because "they're evil".  Keep up with the script.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:38 | 4974309 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

They hate us for our freedumbs and the Red Dawn remake.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:53 | 4974409 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

First off, the Ukrainians would have even less incentive strategically to do this as it would fall directly back onto the government leaders.  Try some logic here.

The Russians have been shooting down large Ukrainian cargo planes all fucking week.  Got at least two of them using the BUK rockets.  These guys thought they got another cargo plane and took credit for it!!!!  Then when the reality hit them, they shut up and disappeared.  Why would the Russians shoot down an airliner...duh because they thought it was a Ukrainian military plane and fucked up. 

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:08 | 4974501 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture


That's credible.  Very unlikely anyone at all purposely downed an airliner.

Except that . . . the administration says it was no accident.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:02 | 4974523 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Thank you for inadvertently providing a perfectly logical and innocent excuse for any picture of Buk launcher with only 3 missiles... I'm guessing that wasn't your intention

The simple fact is that unless and until raw intelligence is released to the public - ALL WE HAVE IS PRIVATE SUPPOSITION AND STATE SPONSORED LIES.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:26 | 4974608 Catullus
Catullus's picture

Well, considering the neo-fascist regime installed by the West has been committing an ethnic cleansing operation against a portion of its country that simply wants to split from Kiev, I'd say the current Ukrainian government in Kiev knows they're not going to be held accountable for any of their actions at this point.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:32 | 4974640 Utah_Get_Me_2
Utah_Get_Me_2's picture

Ill make this simple for you.

Ukrainian CIA backed Puppet Coup-govt motive

Problem. Shoot down commercial airliner with Surface to Air Missile over disputed territory held by rebels, no survivors.

Reaction. Express outrage, Deny immediately. Blame Russia/Rebels. Provide questionable/fabricated evidence. Appeal to international community

Solution. NATO intervention. Subjugation/annihilation of the Pro-Russian rebels. Hot war with Russia.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:12 | 4974833 mototard
mototard's picture

First rule of analysis in a crisis:

Never assume malice when stupidity could explainn the situation.

Based on the social media claims of the Ukraine rebels and the overall situation, stupidity is likely to be the basis of the situation. Very similar stupidity problems were seen with the shootdown of the KAL 007 flight and the USS Vincennes shooting down an Iranian airliner.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 17:03 | 4975357 Utah_Get_Me_2
Utah_Get_Me_2's picture

There is no a assumption of malice on the part of the Kiev junta. It's plain for all to see. And lets be clear, this isn't Kiev's motive, they are just the conduit through which NATO/CIA are carrying out their agenda to destabilize Russia.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 17:57 | 4975502 logicalman
logicalman's picture

I think you should take some of your own medicine.

Try some logic.

From the very beginning of the Ukraine 'issue' it is the US and its puppets that have been causing the probems.

I have a feeling logic is not your strong point.



Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:08 | 4974809 bitterwolf
bitterwolf's picture

This is called "shaping the battlefield" it is how the western elite express their will...

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:23 | 4974230 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

Watched for a while but had to turn it off - reporters kept asking questions in which they already built-in the response they wanted the Pentagon guy to say - so that they could spin the headline "Pentagon spokesman sez -- "

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:23 | 4974233 semperfi
semperfi's picture

its looking more like a false flag

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:27 | 4974255 Racer
Racer's picture

That is as believable as when they said that Iraq had WMD

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:42 | 4974271 NuYawkFrankie
NuYawkFrankie's picture

The Pentagon has been straining our credulity for a long, long time.


Like they're still trying to locate that aircraft debris from the "hit" the Pentagon took on 9/11... no signs of anything turning up yet - but, then again, its only been 13 years they've been searching the Pentagon lawn for engine/fuselage remnants


Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:14 | 4974840 Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

Interesting factoid on the Pentagram, I mean Pentagon. The cornerstone was laid on September 11th 1941.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:30 | 4974274 magpie
magpie's picture

Now Russia should come up with something equally delusional...mechanical failure causes crash and sudden radar jamming...just like in MH370. International experts confirm.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:32 | 4974281 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Are American "allies and partners" always "allies" and "partners," or are some "allies," but not "partners," or "partners," but not "allies?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:49 | 4974384 magpie
magpie's picture

Some are "friends" and "allies", "allies" and "partners" seems to be new to this regime uh administration...under Bush the USA still had all three.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:33 | 4974285 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

And to many of the rest of us: "Strains Credulity" That Jet Shot Down Without [NSA, CIA, MI6 or Mossad] Aid.

The spooks are everywhere these days. They specialize in killing innocent people for their political agendas and personal enrichment.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:33 | 4974286 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

i don't believe a single word the fucking pentagon says

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:38 | 4974312 1stepcloser
1stepcloser's picture

I believe them when they say they can't find $ trillions..

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:51 | 4974395 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

Nor do I believe anything coming out of the Russian regime.   This is the world of devious politics and war.  The "separatists" have been shooting down cargo planes all week using this weaponry.  It is no surprise at all that some nut-job couldn't tell the difference.  In fact, initially they claimed responsibility when they thought it was a Ukrainian cargo plane and then disappeared when the truth came out.

I have no idea why people here assume one side are good guys and the other are bad guys.  Would it be that life was so simple.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:13 | 4974527 Bankster Kibble
Bankster Kibble's picture

What gets me is the endless screaming on Western media about "it's all Putin's fault!"  which is what the Daily Mail and other articles are doing.  The Sun made that a headline. 

The endless drumbeat of "Russians are thugs" is what made me curious about Russia and Putin in the first place.  This site is a breath of fresh air because it discusses more than just the normal hysterical headlines.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 18:01 | 4975515 logicalman
logicalman's picture

If you extract your head from your arsehole and look around, you may see the world differently.

Here's the deal. GOVERNMENT IS THE FUCKING PROBLEM - all of 'em.


Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:35 | 4974295 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

     JFC  the Pentagon couldn't pick a more effeminate spokesperson to spin their BS?

  That clown is singing soprano in the village choir...

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:43 | 4974343 Tracerfan
Tracerfan's picture

We know with certainty that the Nazi Kiev Ukraine regime put the plane into a war zone. 

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:49 | 4974376 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

No we don't.  There's a no-fly zone over the entire area around Crimea and other flights, like in several dozen, have been using the route MH17 did.  In fact, that route, for whatever stupid reason it might be, was approved by the International Civil Aviation Board.  There weren't good choices given the primar routes over Crimean air space have been closed. 

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 18:02 | 4975519 logicalman
logicalman's picture

How much are you being paid, and by whom, to be a total troll?


Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:38 | 4974666 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

How do you know that?

Why shouldn't I believe this?:

“Fifteen out of 16 airlines in the Association of Asia Pacific Airlines fly this route over Ukraine,” Malaysia’s transport minister Liow Tiong Lai said Friday. “European airlines also use the same route, and traverse the same airspace.”

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:47 | 4974360 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

This is some more in-depth coverage than on American sites and a boatload of photos.   From the Daily Mail and it's linked on Drudge as well.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:50 | 4974381 Gyoza Mimi
Gyoza Mimi's picture

It is amusing to see ZH highlighting that Pentagon still didn't show any proof of their claims, while at the same time quoting Interfax (a Putin mouthpeice) as if it was a god-sent revelation (despite lack of any proof in Interfax reporting and despite facts pointing at falesehood of Interfax reports).

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:53 | 4974404 magpie
magpie's picture

Yeah, but really what does the USA have to do with this...Monaco might as well hold a press conference yawn. Last time Malaysia centralized the investigation.

So only Ukraine should be doing the press conferences, even if there are several Blackwater contractors standing behind the uh independent investigators.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:09 | 4974506 fuu
fuu's picture

Aaaaaaaaaaaand he's gone.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:30 | 4974632 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture


Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:51 | 4974394 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

presumably someone has found the missile fragments that prove it is not for example a RIM-8 TALOS or a copy made by a US ally?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:52 | 4974400 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Shit, there is a lot going on right now that "strains credibility"...

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:03 | 4974466 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

It does strain credulity that stocks would be bought and gold would be sold.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:59 | 4974766 crazybob369
crazybob369's picture

Exactly. In what alternate reality universe do stocks go up when the world is on the verge of going up in a giant mushroom cloud? 

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:06 | 4974492 JRobby
JRobby's picture

So WWIII then? Why do they keep beating around the bush? This is all planned out in advance down to who from the pentacle would make the announcement and the wording that would be used.

"Strains credulity"

So this means what? "Tell the truth so we can bomb you" or "we will try to piss you off so much that you will threaten to bomb us so we will go ahead and bomb you first?"

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:06 | 4974497 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

The only thing that strains credulity is that the US and Mossad were NOT involved. I am pretty confident that there are enough data points now to say the burden is on USrael to prove they DIDN'T do it.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:21 | 4974581 walküre
walküre's picture

IMF, WorldBank, FED cabal ordered to do this. To suggest otherwise is utter nonsense. The timing fits, the motive fits and the narrative fits. No seat for Rothschilds at the BRICS bank table. Just follow the fucking money as usual.

Important to watch how the rest of the world elite reacts in the next days/weeks. There's a choice to be made.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:36 | 4974660 semperfi
semperfi's picture

They've already made the decision - to move east.  All that remains is the manifestation.  Which is why shit is happening. The game is already over and the Cabal is going thru its death-throes spasms.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 18:22 | 4975578 Sirius Wonderblast
Sirius Wonderblast's picture

We can but hope!

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:24 | 4974599 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture


the "strained credulity" of Pentagon brass has recently been absent

regarding WMDs, the Constitutional legality

when invading other nations, torturing prisoners,

and killing people by drones and spec ops all over in the world.

Nor, can it be said, is their "credulity" much strained by the insane project to gain

full-spectrum dominance and concomitant first-strike capability over the world.


Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:24 | 4974600 Wahooo
Wahooo's picture

OK, General Powell.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:32 | 4974645 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

Ergo, the "sneaky fucking Russians" did it. We begin bombing in 5 minutes.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:35 | 4974658 Jano
Jano's picture

WE just don't want to know, who fired.....

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:40 | 4974681 Jano
Jano's picture

US gov. and administration cannot keep a track of emails, like recently IRS.

how can they say anything credible about Ukraine, or Boeing, or Malaysia?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:48 | 4974712 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

A BUK-M1 consists of three different vehicles.

1) An Early Warning/ Target Acquisition Radar vehicle - this is the part that tells you what you are firing at.

2) A Transporter Erector Launcher (TEL) This part only fires missiles.

3) A Transporter Erector Launcher And Radar (TELAR) This part paints the targets for itself and the TELs, and it also fires missiles.


The photos of their 'BUK" the Separitists posted last month were pictures of a TELAR.  If the TELAR didn't have access to its Early Warning/Target Acquisition Radar it would not be able to differentiate between enemy and friendly - THAT IS WHAT THAT RADAR IS FOR.

But decide for yourself.  Just do a search.  There are lots of pictures of the TELAR vehicle in the BUK-M1 system on the internet. Find one and then compare with the Separatist postings from last month.

I'm not saying they did it.  I am not saying they didn't.
I am saying that they could have done it, and there is no reason to suspect they did it intentionally.

If Girkin is to be believed from yesterday, then they did do it, and they thought it was an AN-26.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 16:19 | 4975177 Jorgen
Jorgen's picture

+1 but it still leaves unanswered a very important question. Why the plane strayed from its planned route? Nota bene, on September 1, 1983, KAL007 deviated into then Soviet airspace as well and subsequently was shot down by a Soviet Su-15.

Here is what Wikipedia has to say about the aftermath of that tragic event:

NATO had decided, under the impetus of the Reagan administration, to deploy Pershing II and cruise missiles in West Germany.[131] This deployment would have placed missiles just 6–10 minutes striking distance from Moscow. Support for the deployment was wavering and it looked doubtful that it would be carried out. When the Soviet Union shot down Flight 007, the U.S. was able to galvanize enough support at home and abroad to enable the deployment to go ahead.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:48 | 4974715 Fuku Ben
Fuku Ben's picture

How many trillions did they lose this time?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:21 | 4974881 pavel
pavel's picture

Not knowing the circumstances, as most of us do not, it is not entirely impossible to imagine that some Cossacks who are brave fellows but not completely competent, got hold of a sophisticated weapon they could not understand or control, and screwed up. One can easily imagine it.

If this is what happened, someone will have to own up to a terrible error, and this might be the beginning of an accomodation by both sides which could result in an end to the bloodshed. Probsbly not, but one can hope.

I think I agree with new mototard.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:34 | 4974960 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

Never suspect malice before stupidity has been ruled out.


Try it on your street.  There's plenty of stupid around for everyone to independently verify....   Malice too.  But stupid breeds faster.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 16:05 | 4975126 walküre
walküre's picture

Kinda grasping for straws here, Pavel. Why this plane and not any of the tens of planes going from AMS, LON, FRA etc to that region multiple times every day? They announced yesterday to avoid the region. Is it "the region" or that part of "the region"?

MH17 was at cruising altitude and even the dumbest of Ukes or Russkies would have a to be so pretty out of his mind drunk and stupid to mistakenly fire at a commercial jet traveling this high up with contrails and all.

So was it just bad luck for MH again so short after losing a plane in March? Why not KLM which travels on the same route same days within hours of MH. They both have code sharing agreements as well. LH and BA operate over there as well and use this route. Maybe not exactly but c'mon what part of the story makes any sense at all?

How about the debris field? A plane breaking up at 33,000 ft would come down all over the place. Debris field looks somewhat contained from the angles I can see. Should be kilometers apart and finding pieces is like finding needle in haystack. Plane may have travelled much lower? Again, then why?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 16:38 | 4975261 potato
potato's picture

I hope this will enlighten you. Missiles explode near aircraft. The blast and shrapnel can disable flight controls. For example, without precise elevator control, it is impossible to control pitch (attitude). It is likely the plane was largely intact when it dropped to the ground. 

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 16:40 | 4975263 Abbie Normal
Abbie Normal's picture

The footage of the plane with its starboard engine aflame shows it flew on for minutes after the missile hit, and likely was in a semi-controlled descent most of the way.  The debris field is consistent with a much lower altitude crash.  That is what the black boxes will reveal, assuming they ever see the light of day.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 18:40 | 4975629 Sirius Wonderblast
Sirius Wonderblast's picture

I wonder if the black box records some comment like "why did the Ukie fighters just fire on us?"

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:28 | 4974939 bitterwolf
bitterwolf's picture

The forensic analysis and mechanistics of the downing of MAS are of GREAT importance, it behooves one to use the proven latin saw  CUI BONO to arrive at a greater understanding.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:30 | 4974946 bitterwolf
bitterwolf's picture

The forensic analysis and mechanistics of the downing of MAS are of GREAT importance, it behooves one to use the proven latin saw  CUI BONO to arrive at a greater understanding.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 16:17 | 4975179 Dublinmick
Dublinmick's picture

I guess I won't be able to watch this one, this is at the top of the screen.

Access Denied

You don't have permission to access "" on this server.

Reference #18.6623e17.1405714505.15609a76

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 16:18 | 4975186 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

Putin loves ZH.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 16:33 | 4975243 aqualech
aqualech's picture

Quiz:  How can you tell she's lying?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 16:34 | 4975246 Nimby
Nimby's picture

It strains credulity that Russia wasn't involved in the shootdown, but it is completely reasonable to believe that the IRS email fiasco is the result of an unfortunate occurance.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 18:42 | 4975637 ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

Of course the Russian seperatists are being helped by Rssians from Russia.  But can they establish state sancioned support?  Note that the pentagon has no specifcs.

Why are we not pissed off at Mexico and sanctioing them, as lots of Mexicans bring over of drugs which kill lots of Americans every year. 

Mayber Obama can loan Putin some Border Patrol people to show him how easy it is to keep a border cosed.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 18:47 | 4975651 asiafinancenews
asiafinancenews's picture

It strains credulity to believe that pro-Russian separatists would target or shoot at an aircraft flying at 33,000 ft. headed into Russia which is only 20 - 30 miles away.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 19:32 | 4975768 MASTER OF UNIVERSE

The Pentagon PENT-UP-GOONS aka...PSYOPS are PETRIFIED of the PROBABILITY that their PENTAGOONS are not going to get PAID in PETRO-dollars, PEOPLE. How PATHETIC, Pentagon!

NSA eats retard sandwiches and they have been empirically outed as

wankers too, Yippie!

p.s. did anyone find Donald Rumsfeld's lost Pentagon $1.3 Billion with a 'B' petro-bucks by any chance?.....thought not.

OCCUPY PSYOPS - OCCUPY CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY - OCCUPY EVERYTHING except the central nervous systems of retard sandwich eating US ARMY PSYOPS, eh!

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!