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Pentagon Says "Strains Credulity" That Jet Shot Down Without Russian Aid - Live Feed
While admitting that he has no evidence, Pentagon Press Secretary John Kirby offered his opinion in today's press conference:
- *'STEADY, CONCERTED' EFFORT PROVIDES ARMS TO SEPARATISTS: KIRBY
- *'STRAINS CREDULITY' SA-11 FIRED WITHOUT RUSSIAN AID: KIRBY
But still no proof... and then this - *'WE JUST DON'T KNOW' WHO FIRED SA-11 MISSILE AT PLANE: KIRBY
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The fuckin' Pentagon strains budgets. Remember the "5:00 O'clock follies.
The Pentagram itself strains credulity...
It strains credulity that anyone in this administration would ever tell the truth about anything...
Oh, okay... is that the same Pentagram that shot down Iran Air Flight 655?
Hey Runmie, where did that 2 TRILLION bucks go?
pods
But we do know it was an SA-11.
So we know it was in the Ukraine, with a SA-11. Now we just need to figure out the who. I'm guessing the one that appears to have figured out the first 2, probably knows the final piece of the puzzle.
The real question that needs answering is how accurate the following is. Wouldn't the BUK launcher need radar support and a trained crew? Didn't the Kiev forces have an entire unit of BUK launchers in the region too? Which is more likely then? Was it Russian separatists with a single launcher without radar support or the Kiev military unit of multiple launchers with radar support? The answer seems pretty simple to me.
"And finally, as RT reported, the national governor of the Donetsk region, Pavel Gubarev, admitted that while the separatists indeed are in possession of one BUK missile unit, it is not operational, and even if it was, it would be unable to reach a height of over 30,000 feet without central radar guidance which the Donetsk region does not have, once again suggesting that a Surface to Air Missile, if indeed one was used, came from the Ukraine side. Surely it will be very easy for international monitors to validate this report."
I think the real question is what do the separatists have to gain by shooting down a civilian airliner? What do the Russians stand to gain by doing that? Now, what does the new puppet government in Ukraine, or the U.S. stand to gain?
cui bono?
NWO et al
2 trillion dollars went to buy seaside villas on Mediterranean islands with open concept layouts and granite kitchen counter tops from which to snort the BLOW. Then the Spanish tile and infinity pool mosaics not to mention stocking the pool full of hookers costs mucho dineros.
The British authorities were aware that a German submarine was in the path of the Lusitania, but failed to divert the ship to a safer route.
They also failed to provide a destroyer escort, although destroyers were available in a nearby port.
The ship was ordered to reduce speed in the war zone, for reasons that have been kept secret ever since.
How did such a big ship sink so quickly from a single torpedo strike with no munitions aboard as reported by the British government?
It also strained crdulity that Assad didn't do the gassing.
Did you consider the possibility the plane was not recognized as civilian ?
Sure, could have been a Ukrainian military plane going from one part of the country to another. At 33,000 feet.
The people who decided to shoot it did not necessarily spot it that much in advance. And can military planes not fly at 33 000 feet ?
I am not saying I know who shot this plane, even if it was shot at all. But most people here seem to not even want to consider the possibility it was shot by accident. It has to be some sort of false flag, along the lines of "The CIA must have done it !" I would call that overinterpretation. All rooting for war ?
I agree that common folks like most of us will never know for sure what really happened in such instances and yes governements and people do lie, but what is most likely ? A false flag ? Not in my opinion.
Sure a military plane could fly at 33,000 feet. But I doubt it would to go maybe 300 miles at most as that would take it about half way across the entire country. Just guessing there.
Yes, I agree, too many in here look for the nearest conspriacy theory. And I do think it could have been an accidental shooting. Shoot first, ask questions later, especially if you have a new toy.
It's just after all the other wars we started on what turned out to be totally bogus, made up lies masking that we really go to war for profit, it is the default assumption for many of us.
Would a supply ship be at 30,000 feet, in the destination zone and bumping up against the Russian border?
A BUK-M1 consists of three different vehicles.
1) An Early Warning/ Target Acquisition Radar vehicle - this is the part that tells you what you are firing at.
2) A Transporter Erector Launcher (TEL) This part only fires missiles.
3) A Transporter Erector Launcher And Radar (TELAR) This part paints the targets for itself and the TELs, and it also fires missiles.
The photos of their 'BUK" the Separitists posted last month were pictures of a TELAR. If the TELAR didn't have access to its Early Warning/Target Acquisition Radar it would not be able to differentiate between enemy and friendly - THAT IS WHAT THAT RADAR IS FOR.
But decide for yourself. Just do a search. There are lots of pictures of the TELAR vehicle in the BUK-M1 system on the internet. Find one and then compare with the Separatist postings from last month.
The fact is, even at 33000 ft, from the ground,by eye, twin engine airliners look a lot different from the 4 engine strategic bombers that Ukraine doesn't have. Furthermore, they have transponders so everyone knows they're civilian. And, being jets, they leave contrails that the turbo prop bomberrs wouldn't. So, quite an east mistake to make, really.
Sorry, prop engines leave contrails too.....formed by hot exhaust gases into freezing ambient temps. http://www.mcmahanphoto.com/af248--boeingb-17flyingfortresswcontrailspho...
Quintago - Could have been a bomb!!
To finish the DUMBs.
'STRAINS CREDULITY' SA-11 FIRED WITHOUT RUSSIAN AID: KIRBY
This, coming from a government that has openly declared it has the right to kill anyone it unilaterally declares to be an enemy of the state, anywhere on the planet. Talk about "straining credulity"...
The Pentagram itself strains credulity...
That "pentagram" and the Navy piece-of-shit mouth piece that is lying for them will be straining more than "credulity" when a few hundred Bulavas fly up his and everyone elses ass in the Continental United States experiencing it's first all year round winter "ever" -should they be allowed to take it to that extreme!
Self-loathing at being an American doesn't begin to capture the essence of this ultimate of manufactured crisis of our own choosing.
USS Vincennes needed no Russian help to down an Iranian airliner.........
So true.
But that was 1988 and we've had quite a lot of self-inflicted gunshot wounds over the past 25 years in the policy making arena. Just ask the guys that keep coming home on their PTSD meds?!!!
Think "Maverick" and "Goose" need a rest, and i'm almost as certain the ones with half a brain will tell you so themselves given the challenge we're now creating for ourselves given the opponent.
Self-hater or non-american ,you are deluding yourself ,"challenge of opponent",pray tell ,who is this opponent that can prevent the pentagram from freedom of manuever ,that is shaping the battlefield to their advantage vs. the western elites's?
Percieved moral highground is a poor tactical/strategic advantage in this very old game. I would suggest WILL to fight coupled with unlimited CASH and other worldly TECHNOLOGICAL advantage.
...and both the CO and the Weapons Officer received medals for their acts.
The Pentagon is full of shit and strains on the toilet.
Too much life of luxury.
The Pentagon even has a landing zone for civilian airliners but cannot reveal details
The Pentagram is jam packed wall to wall full of unAmerican sissies. All they are good for is huffing and puffing, and collecting big paychecks for nothing, and getting everybody else killed.
The whole Kabbalistic System Inc. of the cabal has always strained credulity:
It also strains credulity that a bunch of cave dwelling mujahideen with minimal flight training penetrated the most secure airspace in the world and pulled off a perfect descending corkscrew turn to impact the exact spot in the Pentagon where the audit team was meeting to discuss the missing trillions of dollars that had been admitted to the previous day, leaving a perfect missile shaped hole in the wall with zero airplane debris, and having no video of the event ever made available publicly. But you don't hear us bitching about that, do you?
Don't forget about bodies and luggage. Wait, I forgot. All that stuff just vaporized at impact.
But a passport survived!
While admitting he has no evidence ....... Nuff said?
We really are in LaLa Land now, I mean this shit is so freakin' surreal I no longer have words to describe this Orweillian nightmare.
Bring on the collapse!!!!!!
Yes, I remember a few years ago when Geoff Morrell — formerly of ABC — was the Pentagon press secretary. But he has since moved on to BP. Wonder where Kirby will end up after his stint.
The rabbit hole is bottomless.
Obama has ordered the removal of the desk message plate on his desk in the Oval Office that says "THE BUCK STOPS HERE." Too close to THE BUK STOPS HERE.
Spin it boys...........
The Pentagon is now getting in on the propaganda fun?
This is just plain 'piling on', as I see it.
Next Headline: Four legs good, two legs better.
This will end exactly like the gas attacks in Syria by the US-allied rebels.
We might not know who shot down the airliner, but we sure as fuck know who levelled whole neighborhoods in Slavyansk with artillery.
Fuck the selective outrages of the media.
BREAKING: Shots fired by rebels at international team of investigators (OSCE) in Ukraine as they approach plane wreckage, via @KiritRadia
perfect honeypot
Sorry to ask again, but.....how does all ths Russia blaming keep the gas flowing to Ukraine and or Europe this winter? Unless we are planning on invading Russia to get the gas.
the elites will have heat, that is all...
After the bankers get the frozen corpses evicted from their former homes, the heat will come back on and they'll live happily ever after.
Everyone has their role to play, and elites have stand ins to take heat,become patsy...always...
So we're back to the evil empire routine. Gotta dump more dollars into the MIC to keep back them rooskies.
Hard to turn the ship on a dime with all the distractions the Republicans are creating, gotta develop some patience- he'll get there, it's not his first rodeo.
..well, yeah even after six years I guess it might be his first.
Why the fuck would the Russians want to down an airliner to begin with? This is what strains the credulity of anything coming out of the US.
Because "they're evil". Keep up with the script.
They hate us for our freedumbs and the Red Dawn remake.
First off, the Ukrainians would have even less incentive strategically to do this as it would fall directly back onto the government leaders. Try some logic here.
The Russians have been shooting down large Ukrainian cargo planes all fucking week. Got at least two of them using the BUK rockets. These guys thought they got another cargo plane and took credit for it!!!! Then when the reality hit them, they shut up and disappeared. Why would the Russians shoot down an airliner...duh because they thought it was a Ukrainian military plane and fucked up.
That's credible. Very unlikely anyone at all purposely downed an airliner.
Except that . . . the administration says it was no accident.
Thank you for inadvertently providing a perfectly logical and innocent excuse for any picture of Buk launcher with only 3 missiles... I'm guessing that wasn't your intention
The simple fact is that unless and until raw intelligence is released to the public - ALL WE HAVE IS PRIVATE SUPPOSITION AND STATE SPONSORED LIES.
Well, considering the neo-fascist regime installed by the West has been committing an ethnic cleansing operation against a portion of its country that simply wants to split from Kiev, I'd say the current Ukrainian government in Kiev knows they're not going to be held accountable for any of their actions at this point.
Ill make this simple for you.
Ukrainian CIA backed Puppet Coup-govt motive
Problem. Shoot down commercial airliner with Surface to Air Missile over disputed territory held by rebels, no survivors.
Reaction. Express outrage, Deny immediately. Blame Russia/Rebels. Provide questionable/fabricated evidence. Appeal to international community
Solution. NATO intervention. Subjugation/annihilation of the Pro-Russian rebels. Hot war with Russia.
First rule of analysis in a crisis:
Never assume malice when stupidity could explainn the situation.
Based on the social media claims of the Ukraine rebels and the overall situation, stupidity is likely to be the basis of the situation. Very similar stupidity problems were seen with the shootdown of the KAL 007 flight and the USS Vincennes shooting down an Iranian airliner.
There is no a assumption of malice on the part of the Kiev junta. It's plain for all to see. And lets be clear, this isn't Kiev's motive, they are just the conduit through which NATO/CIA are carrying out their agenda to destabilize Russia.
I think you should take some of your own medicine.
Try some logic.
From the very beginning of the Ukraine 'issue' it is the US and its puppets that have been causing the probems.
I have a feeling logic is not your strong point.
This is called "shaping the battlefield" it is how the western elite express their will...
Watched for a while but had to turn it off - reporters kept asking questions in which they already built-in the response they wanted the Pentagon guy to say - so that they could spin the headline "Pentagon spokesman sez -- "
its looking more like a false flag
That is as believable as when they said that Iraq had WMD
The Pentagon has been straining our credulity for a long, long time.
Like they're still trying to locate that aircraft debris from the "hit" the Pentagon took on 9/11... no signs of anything turning up yet - but, then again, its only been 13 years they've been searching the Pentagon lawn for engine/fuselage remnants
Interesting factoid on the Pentagram, I mean Pentagon. The cornerstone was laid on September 11th 1941.
Now Russia should come up with something equally delusional...mechanical failure causes crash and sudden radar jamming...just like in MH370. International experts confirm.
Are American "allies and partners" always "allies" and "partners," or are some "allies," but not "partners," or "partners," but not "allies?
Some are "friends" and "allies", "allies" and "partners" seems to be new to this regime uh administration...under Bush the USA still had all three.
And to many of the rest of us: "Strains Credulity" That Jet Shot Down Without [NSA, CIA, MI6 or Mossad] Aid.
The spooks are everywhere these days. They specialize in killing innocent people for their political agendas and personal enrichment.
i don't believe a single word the fucking pentagon says
I believe them when they say they can't find $ trillions..
Nor do I believe anything coming out of the Russian regime. This is the world of devious politics and war. The "separatists" have been shooting down cargo planes all week using this weaponry. It is no surprise at all that some nut-job couldn't tell the difference. In fact, initially they claimed responsibility when they thought it was a Ukrainian cargo plane and then disappeared when the truth came out.
I have no idea why people here assume one side are good guys and the other are bad guys. Would it be that life was so simple.
What gets me is the endless screaming on Western media about "it's all Putin's fault!" which is what the Daily Mail and other articles are doing. The Sun made that a headline.
The endless drumbeat of "Russians are thugs" is what made me curious about Russia and Putin in the first place. This site is a breath of fresh air because it discusses more than just the normal hysterical headlines.
If you extract your head from your arsehole and look around, you may see the world differently.
Here's the deal. GOVERNMENT IS THE FUCKING PROBLEM - all of 'em.
JFC the Pentagon couldn't pick a more effeminate spokesperson to spin their BS?
That clown is singing soprano in the village choir...
We know with certainty that the Nazi Kiev Ukraine regime put the plane into a war zone.
No we don't. There's a no-fly zone over the entire area around Crimea and other flights, like in several dozen, have been using the route MH17 did. In fact, that route, for whatever stupid reason it might be, was approved by the International Civil Aviation Board. There weren't good choices given the primar routes over Crimean air space have been closed.
How much are you being paid, and by whom, to be a total troll?
How do you know that?
Why shouldn't I believe this?:
“Fifteen out of 16 airlines in the Association of Asia Pacific Airlines fly this route over Ukraine,” Malaysia’s transport minister Liow Tiong Lai said Friday. “European airlines also use the same route, and traverse the same airspace.”
This is some more in-depth coverage than on American sites and a boatload of photos. From the Daily Mail and it's linked on Drudge as well.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696975/Putin-blames-Ukraine-los...
It is amusing to see ZH highlighting that Pentagon still didn't show any proof of their claims, while at the same time quoting Interfax (a Putin mouthpeice) as if it was a god-sent revelation (despite lack of any proof in Interfax reporting and despite facts pointing at falesehood of Interfax reports).
Yeah, but really what does the USA have to do with this...Monaco might as well hold a press conference yawn. Last time Malaysia centralized the investigation.
So only Ukraine should be doing the press conferences, even if there are several Blackwater contractors standing behind the uh independent investigators.
Aaaaaaaaaaaand he's gone.
lulz
presumably someone has found the missile fragments that prove it is not for example a RIM-8 TALOS or a copy made by a US ally?
Shit, there is a lot going on right now that "strains credibility"...
It does strain credulity that stocks would be bought and gold would be sold.
Exactly. In what alternate reality universe do stocks go up when the world is on the verge of going up in a giant mushroom cloud?
So WWIII then? Why do they keep beating around the bush? This is all planned out in advance down to who from the pentacle would make the announcement and the wording that would be used.
"Strains credulity"
So this means what? "Tell the truth so we can bomb you" or "we will try to piss you off so much that you will threaten to bomb us so we will go ahead and bomb you first?"
The only thing that strains credulity is that the US and Mossad were NOT involved. I am pretty confident that there are enough data points now to say the burden is on USrael to prove they DIDN'T do it.
IMF, WorldBank, FED cabal ordered to do this. To suggest otherwise is utter nonsense. The timing fits, the motive fits and the narrative fits. No seat for Rothschilds at the BRICS bank table. Just follow the fucking money as usual.
Important to watch how the rest of the world elite reacts in the next days/weeks. There's a choice to be made.
They've already made the decision - to move east. All that remains is the manifestation. Which is why shit is happening. The game is already over and the Cabal is going thru its death-throes spasms.
We can but hope!
Unfortunately,
the "strained credulity" of Pentagon brass has recently been absent
regarding WMDs, the Constitutional legality
when invading other nations, torturing prisoners,
and killing people by drones and spec ops all over in the world.
Nor, can it be said, is their "credulity" much strained by the insane project to gain
full-spectrum dominance and concomitant first-strike capability over the world.
OK, General Powell.
Ergo, the "sneaky fucking Russians" did it. We begin bombing in 5 minutes.
WE just don't want to know, who fired.....
US gov. and administration cannot keep a track of emails, like recently IRS.
how can they say anything credible about Ukraine, or Boeing, or Malaysia?
A BUK-M1 consists of three different vehicles.
1) An Early Warning/ Target Acquisition Radar vehicle - this is the part that tells you what you are firing at.
2) A Transporter Erector Launcher (TEL) This part only fires missiles.
3) A Transporter Erector Launcher And Radar (TELAR) This part paints the targets for itself and the TELs, and it also fires missiles.
The photos of their 'BUK" the Separitists posted last month were pictures of a TELAR. If the TELAR didn't have access to its Early Warning/Target Acquisition Radar it would not be able to differentiate between enemy and friendly - THAT IS WHAT THAT RADAR IS FOR.
But decide for yourself. Just do a search. There are lots of pictures of the TELAR vehicle in the BUK-M1 system on the internet. Find one and then compare with the Separatist postings from last month.
I'm not saying they did it. I am not saying they didn't.
I am saying that they could have done it, and there is no reason to suspect they did it intentionally.
If Girkin is to be believed from yesterday, then they did do it, and they thought it was an AN-26.
+1 but it still leaves unanswered a very important question. Why the plane strayed from its planned route? Nota bene, on September 1, 1983, KAL007 deviated into then Soviet airspace as well and subsequently was shot down by a Soviet Su-15.
Here is what Wikipedia has to say about the aftermath of that tragic event:
NATO had decided, under the impetus of the Reagan administration, to deploy Pershing II and cruise missiles in West Germany.[131] This deployment would have placed missiles just 6–10 minutes striking distance from Moscow. Support for the deployment was wavering and it looked doubtful that it would be carried out. When the Soviet Union shot down Flight 007, the U.S. was able to galvanize enough support at home and abroad to enable the deployment to go ahead.
How many trillions did they lose this time?
Not knowing the circumstances, as most of us do not, it is not entirely impossible to imagine that some Cossacks who are brave fellows but not completely competent, got hold of a sophisticated weapon they could not understand or control, and screwed up. One can easily imagine it.
If this is what happened, someone will have to own up to a terrible error, and this might be the beginning of an accomodation by both sides which could result in an end to the bloodshed. Probsbly not, but one can hope.
I think I agree with new mototard.
Never suspect malice before stupidity has been ruled out.
Try it on your street. There's plenty of stupid around for everyone to independently verify.... Malice too. But stupid breeds faster.
Kinda grasping for straws here, Pavel. Why this plane and not any of the tens of planes going from AMS, LON, FRA etc to that region multiple times every day? They announced yesterday to avoid the region. Is it "the region" or that part of "the region"?
MH17 was at cruising altitude and even the dumbest of Ukes or Russkies would have a to be so pretty out of his mind drunk and stupid to mistakenly fire at a commercial jet traveling this high up with contrails and all.
So was it just bad luck for MH again so short after losing a plane in March? Why not KLM which travels on the same route same days within hours of MH. They both have code sharing agreements as well. LH and BA operate over there as well and use this route. Maybe not exactly but c'mon what part of the story makes any sense at all?
How about the debris field? A plane breaking up at 33,000 ft would come down all over the place. Debris field looks somewhat contained from the angles I can see. Should be kilometers apart and finding pieces is like finding needle in haystack. Plane may have travelled much lower? Again, then why?
I hope this will enlighten you. Missiles explode near aircraft. The blast and shrapnel can disable flight controls. For example, without precise elevator control, it is impossible to control pitch (attitude). It is likely the plane was largely intact when it dropped to the ground.
The footage of the plane with its starboard engine aflame shows it flew on for minutes after the missile hit, and likely was in a semi-controlled descent most of the way. The debris field is consistent with a much lower altitude crash. That is what the black boxes will reveal, assuming they ever see the light of day.
I wonder if the black box records some comment like "why did the Ukie fighters just fire on us?"
The forensic analysis and mechanistics of the downing of MAS are of GREAT importance, it behooves one to use the proven latin saw CUI BONO to arrive at a greater understanding.
The forensic analysis and mechanistics of the downing of MAS are of GREAT importance, it behooves one to use the proven latin saw CUI BONO to arrive at a greater understanding.
I guess I won't be able to watch this one, this is at the top of the screen.
Access DeniedYou don't have permission to access "http://dodnews.defense.gov/LiveStream.aspx" on this server.
Reference #18.6623e17.1405714505.15609a76
Putin loves ZH.
Quiz: How can you tell she's lying?
What Everybody Is Saying: Guide to Speed-Reading People by Joe Navarro (former FBI special agent)
It strains credulity that Russia wasn't involved in the shootdown, but it is completely reasonable to believe that the IRS email fiasco is the result of an unfortunate occurance.
Of course the Russian seperatists are being helped by Rssians from Russia. But can they establish state sancioned support? Note that the pentagon has no specifcs.
Why are we not pissed off at Mexico and sanctioing them, as lots of Mexicans bring over of drugs which kill lots of Americans every year.
Mayber Obama can loan Putin some Border Patrol people to show him how easy it is to keep a border cosed.
It strains credulity to believe that pro-Russian separatists would target or shoot at an aircraft flying at 33,000 ft. headed into Russia which is only 20 - 30 miles away.
The Pentagon PENT-UP-GOONS aka...PSYOPS are PETRIFIED of the PROBABILITY that their PENTAGOONS are not going to get PAID in PETRO-dollars, PEOPLE. How PATHETIC, Pentagon!
NSA eats retard sandwiches and they have been empirically outed as
wankers too, Yippie!
p.s. did anyone find Donald Rumsfeld's lost Pentagon $1.3 Billion with a 'B' petro-bucks by any chance?.....thought not.
OCCUPY PSYOPS - OCCUPY CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY - OCCUPY EVERYTHING except the central nervous systems of retard sandwich eating US ARMY PSYOPS, eh!