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Ukraine's Security Service Has Confiscated Air Traffic Control Recordings With Malaysian Jet

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Earlier, when we commented in the abnormality in the flight path of flight MH-17 we said that "perhaps before coming to "certain" conclusion about the involvement of this rebel or that, the key questions one should ask before casting blame, is why did the pilot divert from his usual flight plan, why did he fly above restricted airspace, and just what, if any instructions, did Kiev air control give the pilot in the minutes before the tragic explosion?"

The simple answer would have come if Ukraine had merely released the Air Traffic Control recording from the tower and flight MH 17, something Malaysia did in the aftermath of the disappearance of flight MH 370, which at last check has still not been uncovered.

It now appears that answer will not be forthcoming because as the BBC reports "Ukraine's SBU security service has confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner, a source in Kiev has told Interfax news agency."

What happens to the recordings next is completely unknown. What is known is that any hope of getting an undoctored explanation why the plane flew as it did, or what the pilots may have seen or said in the moments before the explosion, is forever gone.

It also means that any hope of actually working with facts instead of emotional appeals, and getting to the bottom of the Malaysian airline tragedy, resides in what may be recorded by the black box, whose location right now is now exactly clear. From the Independent:

"Ukraine's emergency services have found two black boxes at the crash site of the downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, the governor of eastern Ukraine's Donetsk region has been quoted as saying.

 

"Two black boxes were found by our emergency services. I have no information on where these boxes are at the moment," Kostyantyn Batovsky told the Interfax-Ukraine news agency.

 

Pro-Russian separatists in the region said on Thursday they had found one black box when the Malaysian airliner came down between Krasni Luch in Luhansk region and Shakhtarsk in the neighbouring region of Donetsk.

 

The Interfax-Ukraine news agency had claimed the first black box has been sent to Moscow for analysis, the BBC reported. The news agency now reports a second black box has been recovered at the crash site.

 

Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has been quoted as saying Russia does not plan to take the "black box" flight recorders from downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 in territory held by pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine,

 

However, separatist leader Aleksandr Borodai told the Associated Press: "No black boxes have been found ... We hope that experts will track them down and create a picture of what has happened."

 

A spokesman for the Emergencies Ministry in Kiev declined to comment on the report.

In other words, even more fact-free confusion and speculation which is just what a propaganda-based reporting system needs.

And so, just like in the case of flight MH-370, what actually happened with MH-17 may never be known.

 

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Fri, 07/18/2014 - 12:49 | 4974007 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Seize seal and destroy the evidence. Where have we seen this before?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 12:52 | 4974028 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

Just turn them over to the Ruskies so they can determine exactly what it means.

No problem there, move on

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 12:54 | 4974044 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

I agree.  Let's roast the Poroschenko pig!

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:01 | 4974086 Thought Processor
Thought Processor's picture

 

 

Again the actions always speak louder than words and lead straight to the real sources.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:12 | 4974172 SamAdams
SamAdams's picture

damage contro, but independents have black boxes, probably in russia's hands already.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:20 | 4974202 Save_America1st
Save_America1st's picture

Gee, let me guess:

 

Black Box #1 in Moscow will say the Ukranians did it.

Black Box #2 in Ukraine will say the Russians did it.

Case solved. Thank you for playing.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:25 | 4974246 magpie
magpie's picture

What if Mossad seizes Black Box #3 and BND Black Box #4 etc etc

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:44 | 4974339 fuu
fuu's picture

Malasia Air's statements do not even mention US passengers, where is the 23 dead Americans meme coming from?

 

3.    Nationalities

Following this afternoon’s press conference, Malaysia Airlines can confirm that a further 16 passengers’ nationalities have been verified. The latest breakdown of nationalities of those on board the flight is as follows:

·         189 Netherlands

·         44 Malaysia

·         27 Australia

·         12 Indonensia

·         9 UK

·         4 Belgium

·         4 Germany

·         3 Philippines

·         1 Canada

·         1 New Zealand

Four passengers’ nationalities remain to be verified.

http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/mh17.html

That link also has the cargo manifest. Some stand outs:

1 Live Dog

1 Shipment of Pot

1 Used Household

1 Diplomatic Mail

http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/content/dam/malaysia-airlines/mas/PDF/MH...

http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/content/dam/malaysia-airlines/mas/PDF/MH...

http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/content/dam/malaysia-airlines/mas/PDF/MH...

http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/content/dam/malaysia-airlines/mas/PDF/MH...

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:45 | 4974350 max2205
max2205's picture

trust an eastern european, NOT

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:50 | 4974655 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

""Ukraine's Security Service Has Confiscated Air Traffic Control Recordings With Malaysian Jet""

B B B B Bingo .....

... Im Sure They Will Have A NEW AND IMPROVED Version Ready In A Few Days.

One That Fits In Perfect With The US Conclusions...

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:18 | 4974859 Manthong
Manthong's picture

..and will fit with their phony "phone tap" between Russia and Donetsk yesterday.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:49 | 4975030 bunzbunzbunz
bunzbunzbunz's picture

Google listed bitcoin as a currency...get some free now while the price is still in consolidation: http://freebitco.in/?r=25727

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 17:39 | 4975448 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

Evidently, Shaggy is working for the Ukraine security service now.

Wasn't me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv5fqunQ_4I

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 22:13 | 4976246 old naughty
old naughty's picture

"confisticate..."

Gee, they're quick...as if there were something incriminating?

Perhaps doctored tapes recovered and to be used after digest?

"They" all know, so no need to destroy "evidence" unless Act II is coming for sheeples to swallow.

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 11:07 | 4976874 fuu
fuu's picture

Malaysia Air released the passenger list today.

http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/content/dam/malaysia-airlines/mas/PDF/MH...

 

Officially only 1 dual Netherlands/US citizen.

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 23:01 | 4978901 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

"Seize seal and destroy the evidence. Where have we seen this before?"

Russia seizing the black boxes? Yeah yeah....completely different...

Sun, 07/20/2014 - 00:15 | 4979009 Flagit
Flagit's picture

It's not Bingo, it's Poker, and I'm rasin' ya.

 They will recover the pilots iphone, which contains a photo he snapped just moments before impact of a missile coming at the cockpit with the words clearly legible on the nosecone.

Fuck You Ukies!!

Love, The Rebels.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 18:07 | 4975535 Bossman1967
Bossman1967's picture

trust no one thats who I didn't do it that's 1

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 22:48 | 4978865 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Black boxes sent to Moscow by "separatists".

Move along, nothing to see here.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:55 | 4974423 Stares straight...
Stares straight ahead's picture

You mention the dog but not the "5 live birds" and "4 live pigeons".
Oh, the irony of live birds dying in a plane crash.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:02 | 4974457 Patriot Eke
Patriot Eke's picture

The black box data will be exactly what they want it to be.  Never forget the altered black box data that was released for the pentagon plane's route.  Once the government takes control of the data, trusting it is a complete joke.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:22 | 4974584 layman_please
layman_please's picture

latest conspiracy theory that was just scraped from the intrawebs

MH17 Latest: Rebel Commander Says Plane Was Full of Corpses

 

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:29 | 4974629 Billy Sol Estes
Billy Sol Estes's picture

Same as in The Dark Knight Rises?

Sun, 07/20/2014 - 01:06 | 4979051 Flagit
Flagit's picture

 

Same as in The Dark Knight Rises?

 

I thought that movie was already taken by the Sandy Hook thing?

 

It also contains a reference to how if the stock market goes down, the money in your mattress is worth a whole lot less.

 

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:30 | 4974631 tony wilson
tony wilson's picture

4 month frozen corpses a gift from the cia,mossad mi6 island called diago garcia innit

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:01 | 4974779 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

There was no plane. Pass it on.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 18:10 | 4975545 Bossman1967
Bossman1967's picture

for once there are pics so....

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 23:15 | 4978931 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

A lot of the pics that I saw were suspect. A couple of days ago one of the British rags were showing pics of perfect passports, drivers licenses, and pristine/ undamaged luggage that were "recovered from the wreckage."

But hey, if they recovered that dude's perfect passport from ground zero in 2001 then I guess anything can happen, right?

Sun, 07/20/2014 - 08:53 | 4979328 Davalicious
Davalicious's picture

A fire burned through the cabin but perhaps overhead luggage was more protected. I keep my passport there, in a bag, during a flight. The rebels went around looking for stuff to steal and collected passports at the same time.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:25 | 4974912 MiltonFriedmans...
MiltonFriedmansNightmare's picture

Layman. Now that sounds a little, no a lot, Sandy Hookish and would seem to be an entirely plausible theory.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 19:21 | 4975705 layman_please
layman_please's picture

well...

 

we have one missing malaysian 777 

we have a planeload of missing people

we have same make downed in the restricted airspace above conflict zone

we have air control and eyewitness accounts of fighters escorting the 'unlucky' plane just before the crash

we have a departure info stating the flight was canceled

we have info that mh17 was instructed to fly lower by the ukrainian air traffic controllers

we have bunch of intact passports laying in a pile 

we have ...

nah, nevermind, no conspiracy here. just move along now.

 

Sun, 07/20/2014 - 07:03 | 4979227 barre-de-rire
barre-de-rire's picture

we have to support you BSness...

 

where the fuck you saw mh17 was cancelled... pls  check your arguments before posting such bullshit.  ppl like you help american to spread  shit over the fan. keep quiet.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:39 | 4974669 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Does a Airplanes Black Box always look like a IRS employees Hardrive?

Sun, 07/20/2014 - 02:53 | 4979117 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I was thinking the same thing. I expect they have the same security procedures for their data. Take it out to a dark alley and tie it to a hand grenade to eliminate potential identify fraud.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:01 | 4974458 fuu
fuu's picture

I had them in the first draft but the shipment of pot and used household were funnier.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:05 | 4974489 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

You foolishly assume they died. Perhaps, the blast that opened the fuselage opened their cages and they fell like stones to a lower altitude, unfurled their wings and even now are living in Prague under assumed identities.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:19 | 4974565 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

Info for consideration from JS site.

.

 

Selective censorship of MH17 coverage speaks volumes

I thank the many readers who provided relevant input, yours can really make a difference.

 

Here is the most heavily censored thing, and the background on it

Fighter jet escorts reveal the real story

 Immediately after the shoot down, foreign people entered the nearest control tower that was monitoring flight MH17 and removed the normal workers and started doing their jobs. These "replacements by force" were obviously put there to front the official story. The normal control tower staff then reported the presense of two fighter jet escorts via Twitter. These tweets were subsequently removed by Twitter. However, the normal tower staff has successfully gotten through to various honest news outlets such as THIS ONE so the fact that "MH17" was under fighter jet escort will not be buried by Twitter or any replacement staff.

http://jimstonefreelance.com/

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:28 | 4974623 Thought Processor
Thought Processor's picture

 

 

Word is going around that the pilot resisted verbally several times the order to decend to 30,000 ft.

This is likely recorded at several points- black box, traffic control, Norad (yes Norad), as well as anyone else who was listening in and happened to be recording at the time.

 

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:30 | 4974634 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

Also, apparently  - flight departure times are inconsistent.

 

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:46 | 4974705 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

One last interesting piece for consideration from JS:

.

'And a final nail - MH17 is proceeding as normal, with normal flights THE DAY AFTER. When MH370 vanished, that route was cancelled FOR WEEKS. WHAT IS UP WITH THAT? Is anyone out there really stupid enough to believe business as usual would resume the the next scheduled flight after a genuine loss of an aircraft that flies anywhere near a war zone? That next scheduled flight is LANDING IN MALAYSIA THE DAY AFTER ON SCHEDULE AS I WRITE THIS, and I beg to question WHY. Is anyone out there gullible enough to buy the notion of business as usual after a genuine unexpected shoot down, or perhaps more importantly, the loss of two IDENTICAL 777 aircraft from the SAME AIRLINE within 4 months? FIGURE THE ODDS.'
Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:12 | 4974828 fuu
fuu's picture

It flew well south today. It crossed the Black Sea from Romania and exited over Turkey.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history/20140718/1000Z/EHAM/WMKK

Oddly enough there are still panes flying over the Ukraine, might just be local routes. Landings in Kharkiv, Kyiv, etc.

http://www.flightradar24.com/49.71,31.73/6

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 18:36 | 4975619 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

Ukraine airspace IS NOT CLOSED.

 

Ukraine airspace over the eastern portion of the country is restricted below 32,000 ft. 

Ukraine airspace over Luhansk and Donetsk is not under Air Traffic Control (ATC) because the rebels destroyed the ATC communication and radar towers in those oblasts. The IACO advises against overflying those oblasts since communications are not reliable and ATC radar is limited.

Airlines can do what they want. If they all want to file a flight plan that overflies Luhansk or Donetsk right now, they can. ATC cannot and will not 'divert' them. If the airlines want to file a flight plan to the South Pole and then back up to Asia to keep well away from Ukraine, they can. It's their call.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 19:32 | 4975766 Rootin' for Putin
Rootin' for Putin's picture

FAA put out a notam that basicly prohibits US carrier and pilots flying there.

Ground navigation facilities are all but useless thesedays to a 777.  GPS direct.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 21:14 | 4976077 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

Sure, but sort of after-the-fact R4P, don't you think?

 

All the following FAA notices apply to U.S. pilots/carriers. The U.S. FAA has no jurisdiction over foreign carriers like Malaysian Airlines or its pilots. Foreign pilots/carriers usually heed FAA NOTAMs anyway (as did MH17)

 

2014.04.13 00:00 FAA SFAR 113

Prohibits operation in the Simperofol Flight Information Region (around Crimea and the surrounding Black Sea area) for the next year. Mostly due to confusion about which country (UKR or RUS) will administer the region.

2014.06.26 00:00 (A bunch of NOTAMS)

Closes segment ATS routes in DNEPROPETROVSK FIR from 14,000 - 26,000 ft (FIR is in Eastern Ukraine area - loss of comm/navigational aids for air corridors; aircraft can still plan flight through and overfly direct via GPS instead of via ATS routes)

2014.07.14 00:00 A1492/14

Closes airspace 26,000 - 32,000 ft same area

2014.07.17 14:15 ATC notifies Malasia Airlines it has lost contact with MH17

2014.07.17 14:56 A1507/14

Closes airspace from 32,000 ft to unlimited height same area << in response to downing of MH17

2014.08.18 00:07 A1517/14

Closes all airspace from surface to unlimited height same area of East Ukraine << I didn't know about this until now

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 23:36 | 5016086 Stares straight...
Stares straight ahead's picture

I did consider that possibility (that I am foolish)

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:23 | 4974595 magpie
magpie's picture

Yeah, that was yesterdays story. They know that since Beghazi...nevermind.

 

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 16:14 | 4975168 rodocostarica
rodocostarica's picture

The problem with the American list is that of the others listed The IRS has claimed that 23 of the others were born in the USA or have a connection like a great grandfather that was American and becuase of new FACTA law they must be considered Americans for tax purposes.

No problem. Now adays the IRS determines who is american or dual nationality. They just want to be able to tax the multimillion dollar settlement.

No confusion here at all.

 

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 16:45 | 4975294 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

I'd put money on it that won't be found in Michelle Obamas black box.

(Don't think she has one).

Sun, 07/20/2014 - 09:33 | 4979399 Leonardo Fibonacci2
Leonardo Fibonacci2's picture

Ask Reggie

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:26 | 4974248 rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

Just have Rose Mary Woods analyze the boxes. She has a lot of experience in such matters.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:55 | 4974415 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

Exactly, but it's smart.  Because Russia has BOTH of the boxes and Ukraine has the voice box from the tower.  So if they try to say that this and that was said from tower to airline, the russians will say that was doctored etc. etc..  Can someone tell my WHY IN GODS NAME IS OBAMA TRYING TO PROVOKE RUSSIA.  If it's because the economy is about to implode that makes sense, but he could have gone with another country like China.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:06 | 4974494 Seer
Seer's picture

"Can someone tell my WHY IN GODS NAME IS OBAMA TRYING TO PROVOKE RUSSIA.  If it's because the economy is about to implode that makes sense, but he could have gone with another country like China."

You need to go and read The Grand Chessboard.

China doesn't have resources.

Europe is fucked unless Russia can be pried from its energy sources: refer to Germany's success in WWII of trying.

We're at the end of the game.  This is less about positioning than it is in making the final, BIG lunge: and because no one understands anything other than the growth Ponziit is all but certain doom...

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:14 | 4974538 chunga
chunga's picture

It's pretty spooky.

Has Germany or any other European countries weighed in on this yet?

Yesterday I was half kidding about making more bean runs but it might be a good idea.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:20 | 4974574 mc225
mc225's picture

yes, russia has the land and the resources, but very low population density. it's like a fruit waiting to be plucked by its neighbors. i'm not sure putin can trust china/india to keep their mitts off. obviously, nato wants in.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:41 | 4974683 JoeSexPack
JoeSexPack's picture

China never launched successful offensive war in history. They're merchants not warriors. India blocked by Himalaya.

 

Russkies trade land for time when invaded. Long supply lines & cruel winter.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 17:06 | 4975365 Sirius Wonderblast
Sirius Wonderblast's picture

And when neighbours (or French, or krauts) encroach, Russia absorbs the blow, retreats somewhat, learns what is the opponents weakness and, after winter has finished with them rolls over them

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 23:21 | 4978943 tbd108
tbd108's picture

First of all it's not Obama. He is a half-witted stooge. He does what he is told to do and say. Second, the reason for the provocation is that they, meaning the Nazis that are running the government (largely) are losing the game. The Russians have the natural resources (especially natural gas and oil) and the Chinese have the industrial capacity. The US/UK team is headed for the third world almost immediately. Jim Sinclair says 2020 is the end of the American empire and says he gets this date from the financial leaders of the world. The Nazis are fighting a desperate battle to preserve their power. They will do anything to try to keep it. The reason you can trust what Putin and friends is saying and doing is that they are winning and the players winning the game are much more likely to play "fair." The losers are going to try anything to change the game including  the destruction of whole countries (Iraq, Libry, Syria, Ukraine, etc), In any case, don't worry about Obama, he is a half-witted crooked stooge from Chicago's southside where all the politicians belong to the mob (I am from Chicago and I have seen this all my life).

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:00 | 4974451 redwater
redwater's picture

The Ukraine one will have the pilot screaming in horror as he describes seeing a shirtless Putin, riding a tiger and shouldering a rocket launcher on a nearby mountain top.

Followed by an explosion sound and then static.

 

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:38 | 4974981 sunnydays
sunnydays's picture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbtMsoVAdqQ

 

An air traffic controller who was there yesterday in Kiev said it was the Ukrainian Military who shot down the plane and they were all taken off their duties immediately afterwards. Fighter jets had been shadowing plane.

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 14:16 | 4977450 55 men
55 men's picture

Yea, and the US will say black box # 2 is good enough for us.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:57 | 4974432 sunnydays
sunnydays's picture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdjODDmW3Q4

hiding the fact they routed them right through the war zone and had them fly lower than they requested.  What a complete set up to go to war. 

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:21 | 4974578 doctor10
doctor10's picture

Something like the  RMS Lusitania

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:49 | 4975033 hidingfromhelis
hidingfromhelis's picture

Did any of the missile crew happen to drop a passport at the firing site?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 16:49 | 4975312 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

Several were found. Donetsk where they went.

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 09:14 | 4976676 Idaho potato head
Idaho potato head's picture

I guess as always has been, the winners will write the 'true' history,

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:02 | 4974099 pods
pods's picture

No worries, they are going to email a copy to Lois Lerner.

pods

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:54 | 4974414 Groundhog Day
Groundhog Day's picture

All we need now is a Hollywood movie so we all know what really happened

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:01 | 4974777 MeetTozter
MeetTozter's picture

Good news, they started work on the movie two weeks ago!

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 12:55 | 4974056 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Right out of the .gov/CIA playbook.

Everything will be redacted so that the only sounds will be static.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:04 | 4974109 Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

True.  They will decipher the voices that emerge from static.  Confusion is the name of the game. 

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:09 | 4974140 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

It's a matter of national security and it's for the children!!!

This is what going full-retard looks like, folks. The entire world has gone mad. There isn't a bullshit filter powerful enough to sift through all the lies and misdirection.

I have no idea what the truth is, and I probably still wouldn't believe it if I heard it. Mission accomplished.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:20 | 4974208 crazybob369
crazybob369's picture

It's all part of the plan. When the masses become confused enough, or scared enough, they will believe those who are best at telling lies. History is littered with the bodies of those who believed those lies and went quitely to the slaughter. Soylent Green may yet become non-fiction.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:02 | 4974462 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Indeed. When everything is lies, all that is left is political opinions. I have noticed the entire world shifting from facts and science, law and physics to Political Ideology and rank opinion based on ideology. You notice that there are no facts, no evidence that can be agreed upon. Nope. All you get is nationalistic lies and political opinion.

If you like Ukraine, then there are only one set of facts possible.

If you prefer Moscow, then only a fact that favors them is possible.

You can see this everywhere nowdays. There is no reality, no way to agree on a fact, even the laws of physics are laughed at as rubbish if they do not give the answers aomeones particular political and world view demands.

As of now this whole story is hopeless. As many truths and facts as possible are being ditched and destroyed so that only the political screamers remain. You know, "GLory to Ukraine" screamers are throwing away the air traffic control tapes and the USA is silent. Hmmm?  Everybody has different facts. In fact, there is no such thing as a fact, only a political opinion.

Deniers abound, all they want is facts that please them. If they are not pleased, their personal mind set satisified, then the facts are wrong! Fuck, the humans of the 21st century are sinking below 12th century thinking. At least those people tried to escape ignorance and learn to improve, WE sink backwards demanding to be pleased in everything.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:15 | 4974543 Seer
Seer's picture

In defense of "facts" I have to point out that the issue lies more with "truths" than what is NOT arguable: facts.  We are, it seems, substituting "fact" with "truth," and this is our un-doing.

Fact: 1 + 1 = 2

Truth: Whatever the hell one wants it to be, it is NOT "fact."

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:41 | 4974684 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Truth is why 1 + 1 = 2

If you know why then you can always prove truth definitively.

 

 

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:59 | 4975089 Drachma
Drachma's picture

Even better when you can understand why sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Cheers.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 16:59 | 4975341 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

...and scientific 'truths' that are found within theories are mere probabilities that haven't yet been disproved. Scientists who disagree with the fact that 'science can never provide the ultimate truth', also lock horns with the very scientific method they espouse to work within.

Real science seeks to disprove, not prove.

Sun, 07/20/2014 - 15:39 | 4980688 Optimusprime
Optimusprime's picture

"To say of what is, that it is, or of what is not, that it is not, is true; to say of what is, that it is not, or of what is not, that it is, is false."

 

---Aristotle

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:56 | 4975066 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Mathematical truths are not facts, and are merely true by definition.

On topic: sorry kids but Europe and the US have already decided that Russia did it.

And now this:

http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/over-100-hiv-experts-and-a...

...Hmm

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 16:42 | 4975279 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

They have to be facts because they define a system and you can't violate those truths regardless of symbolic deception or else the system wouldn't exist period.

Go read up on Peano's postulates and you'll understand why. They are absolute facts, not conditional ones. You can't violate postulates even if you wanted to else the system would cease to be.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 16:58 | 4975345 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

'Mathematical truths' are but perspective bound observations of equivalency, nothing more.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:51 | 4975019 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

The degradation and ridicule of science into personal facts or realities (opinions) has been a ongoing process.  It goes back to even before the conditioning of kids to not like science and math.....

Sun, 07/20/2014 - 07:15 | 4979235 Zwelgje
Zwelgje's picture

"I think and therefore I am."

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:41 | 4974991 smacker
smacker's picture

It's that airtight Matrix they've built for the elites to live in. Nothing/nobody can get in or out of it. You're either one of them and you live like a king, or you're not and you live like a peasant.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:16 | 4974185 Utah_Get_Me_2
Utah_Get_Me_2's picture

How long do you reckon until Russia releases the same communications that they've got recorded?

"Fuck Malaysian Airlines!"  

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 12:52 | 4974035 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Ukranian air traffic controllers disappeared in 3...2...1...

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 12:57 | 4974058 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

Those conversations should also be on the black boxes, will be very interesting in the days ahead....

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 12:58 | 4974072 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Looks like they got those too.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:58 | 4974439 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Those same conversations were heard by any pilots flying under that sector's air traffic control.  It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, any "ear-witnesses" have to say.

Being that contradicting any of the major player's story could lead to an unfortunate "accident," my guess is that we won't hear much - at least for very long.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:09 | 4974507 Marco
Marco's picture

Are those communications recorded on every plane then as well?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:24 | 4974899 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

I'm thinking Russian intelligence records all those signals.  I don't know that.

Sun, 07/20/2014 - 06:08 | 4979199 SHRAGS
SHRAGS's picture

Are those communications recorded on every plane then as well?

Yes, on the voice black box, usually a two hour loop.  However, here is the kicker, the tape is metallic and I'm sure I read an accident report where they managed to reconstruct previous 6 layers (previous loops) using sophisticated techniques.  In other words, it may be possible to reconstruct up to the last 12 hours of recordings if the box is physically removed from the aircraft for analysis.  This would not be a normal maintenance procedure.   There may also be a third black box or QAR (Quick Access Recorder) that is routinely pulled by the airlines for analysis by their safety department.  This is looking for takeoff & landing red flags (unstable approaches etc). 

The QAR is just a floppy disc or the new ones are wireless via ACARS.  There is also other telemetry that goes out via CPCLD datalink & ACARS and as per MH370.  ACARS recievers can be cobbled together for a few hundred bucks & there is a network of plane spotters that decode & share this stuff around.  Modern aircraft broadcast a ton of data, and it would have all been captured by both the Russians & the US, and possibly others with low cost equipment. 

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:00 | 4974084 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Just nailgun accidents while remodeling their dachas.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:21 | 4974582 boattrash
boattrash's picture

Pladizow, I've not been able to verify this story, but if it's true, this Spaniard will likely be the first one to kill himself with a Nailgun.

http://www.infowars.com/ukraine-air-traffic-controller-suggests-kiev-mil...

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 12:55 | 4974055 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Bastiat, it's called 911. No originality, just the same playbook over and over again

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 12:57 | 4974063 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Remember the story of the ATC tapes getting cut up with scissors.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:02 | 4974101 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

You mean like emails getting lost on crashed hard drives?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:12 | 4974520 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

...or all the original Moon landing videos and audio getting lost or recorded over?

... or the odd lack of any video of the Pentagon being hit... When every 7-11 has 2 dozen cameras, but the Capital of the Hyper power had none?

Etc etc etc ad infinitium

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:08 | 4974817 Maxter
Maxter's picture

that particular store had cameras.  But they never released the confiscated video.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 17:02 | 4975353 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

...or michelles black box actually being shaped like a distended pendulus?

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:32 | 4974104 Thought Processor
Thought Processor's picture

 

 

Always remember:

 

The director of the National Security Agency under Ronald Reagan – Lt. General William Odomnoted:

"Because the United States itself has a long record of supporting terrorists and using terrorist tactics, the slogans of today’s war on terrorism merely makes the United States look hypocritical to the rest of the world.

By any measure the US has long used terrorism. In ‘78-79 the Senate was trying to pass a law against international terrorism – in every version they produced, the lawyers said the US would be in violation."

Such a law was never passed.

 

 

Case in point:

"In 1984 the Nicaraguan government filed a suit in the International Court of Justice (ICJ) against the United States. Nicaragua stated that the contras were completely created and managed by the U.S.[49] Although this claim was rejected, the court found overwhelming and undeniable evidence of a very close relationship between the Contras and the United States.[49] The U.S. was found to have had a very large role in providing financial support, training, weapons, and other logistical support to the Contras over a lengthy period of time, and that this support was essential to the Contras.[49]

In 1984, the ICJ ordered that the United States should stop mining Nicaraguan harbors, and that the U.S. should respect Nicaraguan sovereignty.[50] A few months later the court ruled that it had jurisdiction in the case, contrary to what the U.S. had argued.[50] The ICJ found that the U.S. had encouraged violations of international humanitarian law by assisting paramilitary actions in Nicaragua. The court also criticized the production of a manual on psychological warfare by the U.S. and its dissemination of the Contras.[50] The manual, amongst other things, provided advice on rationalizing the killing of civilians, and on targeted murder. The manual also included an explicit description of the use of "implicit terror."[50]

Having initially argued that the ICJ lacked jurisdiction in the case, the United States withdrew from the proceedings in 1985.[50] The court eventually ruled in favor of Nicaragua, and judged that the United States was required to pay reparations for its violation of International law.[50] The U.S. used its veto on the United Nations Security Council to block the enforcement of the ICJ judgement, and thereby prevented Nicaragua from obtaining any compensation."

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:23 | 4974236 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The difference here is that the Russians have ground based signal intercept infrastructure in close proximity to Ukraine and they're actively listening right now. Even the Swiss Onyx infrastructure might have a copy. So if there's anything really incriminating on the tapes, they could still see the light of day.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:29 | 4974941 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Hard to believe that would not be the case.  Russian is likely "all ears" with respect to any signals originating in the Ukraine.  Likely they track Ukraine air traffic better then Kiev.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:43 | 4975006 Thought Processor
Thought Processor's picture

 

 

Yep.  They know what's up.  

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:15 | 4974183 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

It is no secret that the Ukraine SBU

has been coached and  trained by top Pentagon/CIA/FBI leaders and psy-ops experts,

including, no doubt, how to deal with "national security" evidence and handle witnesses.

What could go wrong?

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 16:14 | 4977779 tvdog
tvdog's picture

Naw, Brennan went to Kiev for the scenery.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:19 | 4974197 Emergency Ward
Emergency Ward's picture

.....a malfuction at an unmanned missile battery that was in no man's land.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:15 | 4974349 luckystars
luckystars's picture

Plane shoot down: approximately 14:15 UTC. Israeli assault on Gaza: 14:00 UTC.

March 8

Ukraine crisis as it happened: Ukrainian observation plane fired at over Crimean border
Ukraine's border guard says an observation plane has been shot at while on patrol over Crimea, as a team of monitors from the OSCE have been forcibly prevented from entering the region.

March 8
Missing Malaysian Plane

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:59 | 4974412 yrad
yrad's picture

"Ground to MH-17 what's your heading?"

MH-17: "Down."

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:05 | 4974481 Mesquite
Mesquite's picture

Another 'Warren Comission' coming...??

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:16 | 4974556 JRobby
JRobby's picture

One & Two WTC to Great Kills

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:44 | 4974699 WhackoWarner
WhackoWarner's picture

http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/spanish-air-controller-kiev-borispol-airport-ukraine-military-shot-down-boeing-mh17/

CHRONOLOGY OF @spainbuca’s TWITTER FEED

10:21 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Autoridades de kiev, intentan hacer que pueda parecer un ataque de los pro-rusos

“Kiev Authorities, trying to make looks like an attack by pro-Russian”

10:24 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Ojo! Que puede ser un derribo B777 Malaysia Airlines en ukraine, 280 pasajeros

“warning! It can be a downing, Malaysia Airlines B777 in ukraine, 280 passengers”

10:25 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Cuidado! Kiev tiene lo que buscaba

“Warning! Kiev have what they wanted”

10:25 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Vuelven a tomar la torre de control en Kiev

“[Miitary] has taken control of ATC in Kiev”

10:27 – 17 de jul. de 2014 El avión B777 de Malaysia Airlines desapareció del radar, no hubo comunicación de ninguna anomalia, confirmado

“The Malaysia Airlines B777 plane disappeared from the radar, there was no communication of any anomaly, confirmed”

10:30 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Avión derribado, derribados, derribado no accidente

“Plane shot down, shot down, shot down, no accident”

10:31 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Kiev, tiene lo que buscaba, lo dije en los primeros tw, kiev es responsable @ActualidadRT

“Kiev have what they wanted, I said in the first tw [Tweets], Kiev is responsible @ ActualidadRT”

10:35 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Un accidente muy normal no es, no están amenazando en la misma torre del aeropuerto de kiev,

“An accident that is not quite normal, they are threatening us in the same tower of Kiev airport”

10:35 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Nos van a quitar, nuestros tlf y demás de un momento a otro

“they will take from our phones and others stuff at any moment”

10:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Antes de que me quiten el tlf o me rompan la cabeza, derribado por Kiev

“Before They remove my phone or they break my head, shot down by Kiev”

11:12 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Nosotros tenemos la confirmación. Avión derribado, la autoridad de kiev, ya tiene la información, derribado, estamos tranquilos ahora

“We have confirmation. Plane downed, Kiev authorities already have the information, downed, we are calm now”

11:13 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Que hace personal extranjero con autoridades de kiev en la torre? Recopilando toda la información

“What are doing foreigners with kiev authorities in the tower? Gathering all the information”

11:15 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Cuando sea posible sigo escribiendo

“When possible I´ll keep writing”

11:48 – 17 de jul. de 2014 El avión B 777 voló escoltado por 2 cazas de ukraine hasta minutos antes, de desaparecer de los radares,

The B777 plane flew escorted by Ukraine jet fighter until 2 minutes before disappearing from the radar,

11:54 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Sí las autoridades de kiev, quieren decir la verdad, esta recogido 2 cazas volaron muy cerca minutos antes , no lo derribo un caza

“If kiev authorities want to tell the truth, It´s gathered, 2 jet fighters flew very close minutes before, wasn’t downed by a fighter”

12:00 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Nada más desaparecer el avión B 777 de Malaysia Airlines la autoridad militar de kiev nos informo del derribo, como lo sabían?

“Malaysia Airlines B777 plane just disappeared and Kiev military authority informed us of the downing, How they knew?”

12:00 – 17 de jul. de 2014 A los 7:00 minutos se notificó el derribo, más tarde se tomó la torre nuestra con personal extranjero q siguen aquí

“7:00 minutes after [plane dissapeared], the downing was notified, later our tower was taken with foreigner staff, they still here ”

12:01 – 17 de jul. de 2014 En los radares esta todo recogido, para los incrédulos, derribado por kiev, aquí lo sabemos y control aéreo militar también

“all this is gathered in radars, to the unbelieving, shot down by kiev, here we know it and military air traffic control also”

13:15 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Aquí los mandos militares manejan y admiten que militares a otras órdenes, pudieron ser, pero no, los pro-rusos

“Here the military commanders manage and support it could be military following other orders , but no, the pro-Russian”

13:29 – 17 de jul. de 2014 El ministro del interior si conocía que, hacían los cazas en la zona, el ministro de defensa no, .

“Interior Minister knew what the fighters were doing in the area, the defense minister didn’t.”

13:31 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Militares confirman que fue ukraine, pero se sigue sin saber de donde vino la orden

“Military confirm It was Ukraine, but still does not know where the order came from”

13:36 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Hace dias lo dije aquí, militares de kiev querían alzarse contra el actual presidente, esto puede ser una forma, a las órdenes de timoshenko

“Days ago I said here, kiev military wanted to rise against the current president, this may be a way, ordered by timoshenko [following timishenko orders]”

13:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Los cazas volaron cerca del 777, hasta 3 minutos antes de desaparecer de los radares, solo 3 minutos

“The fighters flew close to 777, up to 3 minutes before disappearing from the radar, just 3 minutes”

13:43 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Se cierra el espacio aéreo

“Airspace closed”

13:45 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Se cierra el espacio aéreo, por miedo a más derribos

“Airspace is closed, more downings feared”

15:17 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Control militar entrega ahora mismo de forma oficial que el avión fue derribado por misil

“military control now officially [say] the plane was shot down by missile”

15:23 – 17 de jul. de 2014 El informe oficial firmado por las autoridades militares de control de kiev ya lo tiene el gobierno,,,, , derribado

“Government has the official report signed by the control military authorities in Kiev,,,, [plane] shot down”

15:26 – 17 de jul. de 2014 En el informe se indica de donde abría salido el misil, y se especifica que no proviene de las autodefensa en las zonas rebeldes

“The report indicates where the missile had come out [from], and specified is not from the selfdefence in rebel areas”

15:34 – 17 de jul. de 2014Los radares militares si recogieron los datos del misil lanzado al avión, los radares civiles no

“Military radar collected data from missile fired to the plane, civilian radars didn’t”

15:36 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Los altos mandos militares no ordenaron el lanzamiento del misil, ,,alguien se le fue la mano en nombre de ukraine

“military high command did not gave the order to fire the missile, someone screw it ine the name of ukraine”

15:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Para el que no lo sepa, digamos así, hay militares a las órdenes del ministro de defensa y militares a las órdenes del ministro del interior

“For those who do not know, Let’s say, there are military under the orders of the defense minister and military under the orders of Interior Minister”

15:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Los militares a las órdenes del ministro del interior conocían en cada momento lo que sucedió, .

“The military under the orders of Interior Minister knew what happened all the time .”

16:06 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Mandos militares aquí (ATC) torre de control, confirman que el misil es del ejercito de ukraine,

“Military commanders here (ATC) control tower, confirm that the missile is from the ukranian army,”

16:07 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Mandos militares que si lo sabían y otros mandos que no,

“military commanders that knew it and others didn´t ,”

16:08 – 17 de jul. de 2014 290 personas inocentes muertas, . Por una guerra inútil, donde el patriotismo se compra con dinero

“290 dead innocent people. What a useless war, where patriotism is bought with money”

16:09 – 17 de jul. de 2014 La forma de tomar la torre de control minutos después sabiendo todo los detalles, rápido nos hizo pensar que habían sido ellos

“Thw way the control tower was taken minutes after & knowing all the details, made ??us think that they [made it]”

16:10 – 17 de jul. de 2014 La cara de los militares que llegaron más tarde diciendo pero que habéis echo, no dejo dudas

“The face of the soldiers who came later saying [what you just did], no chance for doubts”

16:12 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Es tal la decadencia que los militares acompañados de extranjeros que llegaron primero nos llegaron a pedir que dijéramos su versión

“Such is the decline that military who came first accompanied by foreigners came to us asking us to tell their version”

16:13 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Nuestra respuesta, fue, estos radares no recogen el lanzamiento de misiles, los militares si, ya no quedaban dudas

“Our response was, these radars do not collect the launching of missiles, the military ones does, there were no doubts”

Share this:

 

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:47 | 4975027 Thought Processor
Thought Processor's picture

 

 

More high strangeness.

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 17:14 | 4977933 old_turk
old_turk's picture

Seriously....Dude.

A Twtter feed published in Russia Today?

Really.

I find very hiliarious that I can read the Spanish and the "translation" and RT needs to get better Spanish speaker to write their Twitter feeds.

Just sayin.

How about posting something really authoritative from Wikipedia next time.

Sun, 07/20/2014 - 09:00 | 4979340 localspaced
localspaced's picture

Already debunked by different sources, including spanish embassy. This Carlos was active during the maidan protests too.

Some of the conspiracy freaks here are depressing. Gullible idiots. Yes indeed this was staged with dead bodies from the missing plane by Elvis and 2pac themselves in cooperation with the global Zionist conspiracy that wants to mindcontrol you so they can screw your mom when you're not looking. 

Thanks for distracting people from actual truth (empirical truth), real debates and achievable changes. 

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:06 | 4974802 observiate
observiate's picture

oh i know!! i know!!!!

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 18:01 | 4975517 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

Rumor has it the tapes will be given a proper Islamic sea burial.

Sun, 07/20/2014 - 00:11 | 4979001 WhackoWarner
WhackoWarner's picture

Yeah and let's cut off the Spanish ait Contollor's account. I want to know where this guy is?  Another spoof?  Or a nail gun suicide dive off a bridge?

Sun, 07/20/2014 - 03:25 | 4979145 luftmensch
luftmensch's picture

lol, Interfax is as about as impartial as RT, and they have not identified their source.  This is B.S. Tyler, give us something substantial next time please.

I imagine Russia, the U.S., and possibly others monitor all these types of communications anyway.

Here is a potential narrative for you:

 

  • "Moscow has played "the usual game of deflection," noting it has put out "nonsense stories to send people down a rabbit hole" and hamper the investigation."


  • "These separatist leaders are taking orders from Russia and (Russian President Vladimir Putin) has to realize the consequence of sending heavy and sophisticated weapons to a gang of sociopaths, extremists, violent thugs, nationalists and agents who are just given weapons and told to make chaos..."


  • "Shortly after the passenger plane was downed, Strelkov – seen smirking in propaganda photos – tweeted a boastful message claiming responsibility. At the time, he apparently believed he had shot down an Antonov-26 military plane of the Ukrainian Air Force, saying it landed near a mine named Progress.  His chilling message read: ‘In the area Torez we just hit down An-26, it’s lying somewhere in the mine 'Progress'.  ‘We warned you – do not fly in 'our sky'...Later as the horror became clear, the tweet was deleted."

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2697895/Now-rebel-commander-blamed-downing-MH17-says-bodies-aren-t-fresh-claims-corpses-dead-days.html

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/18/politics/russia-ukraine-world-relations/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Sun, 07/20/2014 - 04:22 | 4979165 Bokkenrijder
Bokkenrijder's picture

Why is that one black box sent to Moscow anyways? Russia has NOT juristiction over this case whatsoever, as the aircraft was NOT in Russian airspace at the time of the crash, nor did it crash on Russian territory. 

Traditionally, a crash investigation team is composed of investigators from; the country of registry (9M = Malaysia), country of where the crash happened (Ukraine) and country of aircraft manufacture (United States).

Go ahead with the red kudos again, but sending the black box to Moscow without any observers from the countries mentioned above, is yet another nail in the coffin of Putin's credibility in the downing of MH17.

p.s. oh yes, real gentlemen those rebels: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2698563/Graveyard-desecration-Gr...

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 12:51 | 4974008 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

FALSE FLAG!  Kiev fascists: must protect lies lest we be hung.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:47 | 4974361 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

I'm not taking any sides as they both suck, but don't you think both are motivated to lie for their team or face consequences.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 12:50 | 4974019 souljaboy
souljaboy's picture

Hell, I don't even believe this report!

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 12:55 | 4974046 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Smart move. Don't believe anything the media says, instead find out who pays them and make up your own mind.

Sun, 07/20/2014 - 00:17 | 4979013 WhackoWarner
WhackoWarner's picture

Well great but people have to read something to make up their minds.  With evidence being taken down over websites who is to know?  Our discussions and links hopefully perserve some facts. So instead of going into anti-USA and Pro-Putin camps we can digest info.'

But let us all just please take note of drone attack deaths.  And previous planes that were "oopsied".  Let us please remember that Gaza is being "cleansed".  Or is this the distraction.

 

God bless Fox and CNN. May the billionaires please take over my thought processes so I can play more video games.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:05 | 4974114 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Let's see Who should I believe, deceitful Nazis or duplicitous Commies?  Some things never change.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:09 | 4974145 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Oh, people are taking sides between bad and worse, So much for the "they're all the same" meme.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:18 | 4974192 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

If by chance it wasn't accidental, then the one(s) that benefit are the guilty ones.

It's called motive.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:44 | 4974263 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Damn, I don't want you in a jury.  Anyone collecting an insurance claim is automatically guilty of fraud.  Edit: pointing out insurance fraud makes peeps STFU.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:51 | 4974396 Blue Vervain
Blue Vervain's picture

"Anyone collecting an insurance claim is automatically guilty of fraud. "

Correct - if, as already stated, it wasn't an accident.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:59 | 4974433 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Guilty before proven innocent.  That fits about exactly where our progressive nazi legal system is right now.  An accusation and possible motive is all we need to convict.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:05 | 4974490 therevolutionwas
therevolutionwas's picture

You  are trying to be clever.  A court and its jury decide, based on the facts, who is guilty and not.  Those investigating a Possible crime will look to who benifited from the crime.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 14:35 | 4974551 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Truth is, a jury decides if the accused is innocent based on the "facts" presented.  There is no compesation for the wrongly accused.  Tuff luck charlie, just be happy you're not in jail.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 12:50 | 4974020 magpie
magpie's picture

Just to be sure, have a news release about Polish spec ops AND Seal Team 6 both securing another two black boxes, thank you.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 12:53 | 4974033 JohninMK
JohninMK's picture

There were several reporters there yesterday including one from Reuters who seem to be very quiet today.

The truth is rapidly disappearing so that no-one will get the blame, it is too embarrasing all round.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 12:53 | 4974036 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Kiev makes the best chicken, or so I'm told.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 12:57 | 4974060 magpie
magpie's picture

What are you implying. Obama likes dog...

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:02 | 4974093 CCanuck
CCanuck's picture

Zero also likes roosters, cocks, and chicken wieners..just say'n

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:01 | 4974095 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Chernobyl chicken is better, More legs, and self cooks.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 12:54 | 4974042 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

And I'm having trouble visting zerohedge again this morning.

 

The Empire can't let the sheeple know any truths.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:58 | 4974440 therevolutionwas
therevolutionwas's picture

I was having trouble for a bit also

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 17:28 | 4975420 emersonreturn
emersonreturn's picture

i couldn't get on at all until about half an hour ago.  a blank screen telling me the site was unable to be accessed and to contact my provider!??  ZH is being targeted not simply by CIA, NSA and mossad trolls but its access.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 12:55 | 4974047 _ConanTheLibert...
_ConanTheLibertarian_'s picture

Jee, that was expected is it.

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 12:55 | 4974049 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

On that Spanish air-traffic controller working the Ukraine who has a story to tell -in Spanish

http://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/view/127516-amenazar-controlador-esp...

"This story in the Spanish language Russia Today, is a follow-up to yesterday's story about a Spanish Air Traffic Controller who tweeted that Kiev was behind the shot down of MH17 and that Kiev military forces had confiscated all the radar tapes in the area (shades of TWA 800!) The tweet was erased and there were a flood of counter-tweets insisting the story was a hoax and the man did not really exist. This story, which includes a video interview, confirms the man is real and that he was forced to flee for fear of his life."... WhatReallyHappened.com

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:00 | 4974082 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

Kiev Nazis on the loose

Fri, 07/18/2014 - 13:01 | 4974088 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Fleed to where? That would be a hell of a feat to flee Ukraine to Spain in 24 hours especially when you are on the radar so to speak.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!