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Ukraine's Security Service Has Confiscated Air Traffic Control Recordings With Malaysian Jet
Earlier, when we commented in the abnormality in the flight path of flight MH-17 we said that "perhaps before coming to "certain" conclusion about the involvement of this rebel or that, the key questions one should ask before casting blame, is why did the pilot divert from his usual flight plan, why did he fly above restricted airspace, and just what, if any instructions, did Kiev air control give the pilot in the minutes before the tragic explosion?"
The simple answer would have come if Ukraine had merely released the Air Traffic Control recording from the tower and flight MH 17, something Malaysia did in the aftermath of the disappearance of flight MH 370, which at last check has still not been uncovered.
It now appears that answer will not be forthcoming because as the BBC reports "Ukraine's SBU security service has confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner, a source in Kiev has told Interfax news agency."
What happens to the recordings next is completely unknown. What is known is that any hope of getting an undoctored explanation why the plane flew as it did, or what the pilots may have seen or said in the moments before the explosion, is forever gone.
It also means that any hope of actually working with facts instead of emotional appeals, and getting to the bottom of the Malaysian airline tragedy, resides in what may be recorded by the black box, whose location right now is now exactly clear. From the Independent:
"Ukraine's emergency services have found two black boxes at the crash site of the downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, the governor of eastern Ukraine's Donetsk region has been quoted as saying.
"Two black boxes were found by our emergency services. I have no information on where these boxes are at the moment," Kostyantyn Batovsky told the Interfax-Ukraine news agency.
Pro-Russian separatists in the region said on Thursday they had found one black box when the Malaysian airliner came down between Krasni Luch in Luhansk region and Shakhtarsk in the neighbouring region of Donetsk.
The Interfax-Ukraine news agency had claimed the first black box has been sent to Moscow for analysis, the BBC reported. The news agency now reports a second black box has been recovered at the crash site.
Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has been quoted as saying Russia does not plan to take the "black box" flight recorders from downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 in territory held by pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine,
However, separatist leader Aleksandr Borodai told the Associated Press: "No black boxes have been found ... We hope that experts will track them down and create a picture of what has happened."
A spokesman for the Emergencies Ministry in Kiev declined to comment on the report.
In other words, even more fact-free confusion and speculation which is just what a propaganda-based reporting system needs.
And so, just like in the case of flight MH-370, what actually happened with MH-17 may never be known.
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"That would be a hell of a feat to flee Ukraine to Spain in 24 hours especially when you are on the radar so to speak."...
How do we know for certain he's in Spain? If the U.S. can pull what it's already pulled with illegal kidnappings of "alleged terrorists" and individuals with relations in the diplomatic community of countries they are interested in especially Italy and Spain he may wind up with a shortened lifespan post 9/11 rules!
We don't that is why I asked.
If the U.S. can pull what it's already pulled with illegal kidnappings of "alleged terrorists" and individuals with relations in the diplomatic community of countries they are interested in especially Italy and Spain he may wind up with a shortened lifespan post 9/11 rules!
They won't because it will cause more headaches than problems solved especially since he is probably in Russian protection right about now and besides the information can't be coaborrated by anything else he has except for his word or so we know at the moment. It is easier to discredit and disinformation someone's word in a case like this. Which is exactly what is going on right now concerning information coming to light.
They won't because it will cause more headaches than problems solved especially since he is probably in Russian protection right about now and besides the information can't be coaborrated by anything else he has except for his word or so we know at the moment.
They Won't???
DCH
Tell that to the 146 prisoners at Guantanamo that are being held without charges and any "due process" for the past 12 years in that all expenses paid Caribbean kennel they call home?... Or for that matter the names of those that were tortured and murdered that will never appear on a Holocaust memorial wall commemorating their wrongful deaths in places like Camp Buca or Abu Ghraib along with hundreds of black sites we will never know about where they were murdered!
I think the Excedrin strength headaches that you speak of reached critical mass at the DoJ and Hague at least 6 years ago!
Go read the wikileaks files on those 146 first before commenting. You'll see that they don't snatch and grab people then stick them in Guantanamo unless they have connections 'terrorist' groups. They are technically prisoners of war but the rules have never been updated to reflect dealing with conflicts involving non nation states so it is anything goes until international law finally deals with it and even then it is not like anyone follows the rules anyways now as is.
Go read the wikileaks files on those 146 first before commenting.
Yes of course wikileaks... And what does "wikileaks" have to say about the NDAA Section 1021 and 1022 on the issue of what constitutes the "battlefield" as of December 31, 2011 with respect to "perpetrators" who may have "connections" to 9/11 as you put it both past, present and future for rendition and torture?
Last I checked Dewey I didn't see a Constitutional Convention to ratify any of the Amendment(s) to the Constitution, so how are they technically prisoners of war under our own Consitution let alone the international courts that still technically acknowledge Geneva? To get around that one I thought they changed the status to something called "enemy combatant" to permit rendition and torture at will without warrant or justification on the basis of not being idenified with formal papers or a uniform which means just about anyone can be snatched and grabbed without a declaration of probable cause after 9/11?
When wikileaks provides the caption at the bottom of it's pages to the Patriot Act(s) and NDAA that say that the Executive, Judicial and Legislative are and have been breaking the law by usurpation of their sworn oath(s) and charter to the U.S. Constitution by declaring the Patriot Act and NDAA "The Law", I'll start relying on wikileaks alot more!
Spot on.
Go read the wikileaks files on those 146 first before commenting.
Yes of course wikileaks... And what does "wikileaks" have to say about the NDAA Section 1021 and 1022 on the issue of what constitutes the "battlefield" as of December 31, 2011 with respect to "perpetrators" who may have "connections" to 9/11 as you put it both past, present and future for rendition and torture?
Last I checked Dewey I didn't see a Constitutional Convention to ratify any of the Amendment(s) to the Constitution, so how are they technically prisoners of war under our own Consitution let alone the international courts that still technically acknowledge Geneva? To get around that one I thought they changed the status to something called "enemy combatant" to permit rendition and torture at will without warrant or justification on the basis of not being idenified with formal papers or a uniform which means just about anyone can be snatched and grabbed without a declaration of probable cause after 9/11?
When wikileaks provides the caption at the bottom of it's pages to the Patriot Act(s) and NDAA that say that the Executive, Judicial and Legislative are and have been breaking the law by usurpation of their sworn oath(s) and charter to the U.S. Constitution by declaring the Patriot Act and NDAA "The Law", I'll start relying on wikileaks alot more!
Dewey, You can't possibly be that fucking naive.
The lawyers are involved for starters especially once you start dealing with detaining US citizens and that includes across multiple 3 letter agencies and the WH.... It is one thing to make a guy who is a legitimate threat to disappear but it loses it's effectiveness when you abuse it detaining anyone and everyone like a Spanish air traffic controller who already made information public. Think chuckleheads.
The reality is if they want to disappear a US citizen NDAA or not they will very simply without breaking any laws. They have an affliate in the jurisdiction where they reside take care of it.
The seizure of the recordings will definitely fuel speculation about the extent of
Kiev involvement in MH-17 disaster.
How accurate is the alleged communication by Spanish air controller blaming Kiev authorities?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/spanish-air-controller-kiev-borispol-airpor...
Seems he was twitting the whole thing about the air force planes accompanying the airliner until the 3 min mark and how the path was diverted and how the orders to shoot were from the Interior Ministry and not Defense.... aka our Nazi partneers in crime over there.... thus the need to seize all the records to prevent furthe 'leaks' of the truth and whatnot. This seems the same type of shoddy work our psycho intel crew is known for... hint, hint.
He has been reliable in the post as a source at sakar.com.
let me be xtal clear too the house in this fecal matter.
no improv prieaty was involved in this matters.
this was not and is not and has never had not nothing too do
with the jews.
israel has not got a dog in this game fight.
we use defense strategy of tension
no gladio hare here.
init.
You do not understand Wilson, if Khazarians can seize Khazaria...what use are those shlemihls in Zion...sentimentalists and idiots bobbing their heads to Herod's shitty enclosure...Khazaria for the Khazarians...Palestine is not for Jews...not for Palestinians...but for CIASIS.
Tony, do you believe in the Bath House in the Sky?
Bwahaha. WHO COULD HAVE IMAGINED THIS WOULD HAPPEN? /sarc
I'm sure the government will be happy to take control of the situation and explain everything to us, for our own good.
Fuckheads.
Isn't the Ukraine some kind of EU protectorate ? The Commissars in Brussels could issue an ukas to seize it all.
protectorate yes.
hans von winkle and barney boroso have just issued a papal and paypal euro fatwa.
a rothschild burp of anal wind from the child rapists in brussels is on it's way too moscow as i speaks.
this kind of communist soros wind is viewed with great dis pleasings by the kgb and fsb.
Down the Rabbit Hole we Go.
The Eerie Facebook Post a Passenger Made Before His Flight Is Unlikely Comfort to Family and FriendsNetherlands should SUE Ukraine / Kiev ATC
bankrupt those fuckers, then kick their asses in soccer
Christian apologists such as G. K. Chesterton repeated and amplified the significance of the "death" of Pan, suggesting that with the "death" of Pan came the advent of theology. To this effect, Chesterton once said, "It is said truly in a sense that Pan died because Christ was born. It is almost as true in another sense that men knew that Christ was born because Pan was already dead.
Tapes will be quickly buried at sea. In accordance with all CIA guidelines.
Islamic tapes ?
Next to Osama bin Laden's body.
"What happens to the recordings next is completely unknown"
Oh it's known....the recordings will disappear.
There was, eh, uhm, an accident.. Yes a boating accident.. Similar to the one a while ago which cost us all our gold in the Ukrainian central bank. So the records are at the bottom of a lake.. And, and they are badly damaged.. Even if someone finds them we are sure they are so damaged they can't be of any help any more.. Sorry 'bout that, ya know.."
Unfortunately they malfunctioned because the batteries were weak . . . so somthing . . . causing parts of the tapes to be blank. Maybe one of the passengers forgot to put his phone in "airplane mode."
Well if the recordings disappear then the recordings are completely unknown.
There is not problem with that statement, whatsoever. It stated exactly what will happen.
Imagine that. SBU(CIA,MI6,etc..) 'seizes' communications that could potentially reveal whose responsible and they aren't released. Nothing to see. Russia did it!
"Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design." -Emperor Palpatine
no. it will be known, by the well controlled media.
The prime suspect has been taken in for questioning:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavrilo_Princip
The other little coincidence I haven't really seen commented on MH 17 was shot down the same day as TWA Flight 800 was (alledgedly) shot down.
I've seen it mentioned elsewhere. Here's the three key dates:
1. 17/July/1996 = TWA 800 shot down.
2. 17/July/1998 = Malaysia MH17 plane first registered.
3. 17/July/2014 = MH17 shot down.
(1+9) = 10
(9+6) = 15
10+15 = 25
2+5 = 7
1+0+1+5 = 7
19+96 = 115
1+1+5 = 7
11+5 = 16
1+6 = 7
....
2 + 0 = 2
1+ 4 = 5
2+5 = 7
20 + 14 = 34
3+4 = 7
http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/nop/nop14.htm
You just need to figure out which 7 symbolism they worship.
1996 = 7
and
2014 = 7
and
1 + 7 = 8
1877
...
The number 7 was curiously related to H. P. Blavatsky and the Theosophical Society. "Lucifer" was first published in 1887, and 1887 is the sum of 17 hundreds, 17 tens, and 17 units; H. P. B. lived at 17 Lansdowne Road, and 17 Avenue Road; "Lucifer" was published at 7 Duke Street; 7 volumes were completed at her death; Colonel Olcott first met her at 7 Beckman Street, and later at 71 Broadway, New York. Anna Kingsford was elected president first of the London T. S. Lodge on 7th January 1883; "Isis Unveiled" was published in 1877, and the Third volume of the "Secret Doctrine" was published in 1897, after her death.
...
8/15/1971 - End of Bretton Woods and gold backed dollars.
8 + 1 + 5 = 14 = 7 + 7
(1 + 5 + 1) = 7 and 8 + 9 = 17
17/7
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_Conference
The Bretton Woods Conference, formally known as the United Nations Monetary and Financial Conference, was the gathering of 730 delegates from all 44 Allied nations at the Mount Washington Hotel, situated in Bretton Woods, New Hampshire, United States, to regulate the international monetary and financial order after the conclusion of World War II.[1]
The conference was held from the 1st to 22nd of July, 1944. Agreements were executed that later established the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (IBRD, which is part of today's World Bank Group) and the International Monetary Fund (IMF).
...
7/17
(9+4+4) = 7
(4+4) = 8
(1 + 9) = 10 1+0 = 1
(1 + 9 + 4) = 14 = 7 + 7 7/7
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Monetary_Fund
The International Monetary Fund formally came into existence on 27 December 1945, when the first 29 countries ratified its Articles of Agreement.[23] By the end of 1946 the Fund had grown to 39 members.[24] On 1 March 1947, the IMF began its financial operations,[25] and on 8 May France became the first country to borrow from it.
1/3/1947
1+3+1+9+4+7 = 25
2+5 = 7
1 (3+1+9+4) 7 = 1 (17) 7 17/17
Monetary system is a religioua system with the money being the idoiltry and luciferian construct substituting the fish with the dollar and teaching a man to fish to working to for the fish so he can eat,
This is what Joshua aka Jesus really preached when he talked about the fish which is being able to feed oneself without idoltry. These fuckers just took the idea and bastardized using substitute symbolism to deceive and pyschologicaly accept as a god to worship through deception.
That is how evil works kids.
Here is one more.
9/11/2001
9+1+1+2+1 = 14 7+7 7/7
11 = 7 + 4
9+4+2+1 = 16
1+6 = 7
7/7
21 = 7 + 14
14+1+1+9= 25
2+5 = 7
1+4+1+1+9 = 16
1+6 = 7
7/7
12 = 7 + 5
9 + 1 + 5 + 1 = 16
1+6 = 7
7/7
19 = 12 + 7
12+2+1+1 = 16
1+6 = 7
1+2+2+1+1 = 7
7/7
91 = 84 -7
8+4+1+2+1 = 16
1+6 = 7
7/7
84+1+2+1 = 88
8+8 = 16
1+6 = 7
7/7
notice how 16 = 8+8 shows up all over the place too giving us 887
sure a 1 or 1000 falls out of this somewhere too giving us 1887.
Anyone still think the Muslims were behind 9/11 and weren't just hired help?
Some more symmetry concerning 15/8/1971
15 = 8+7 / 8 / 19 = 1+9=10=1 /71
1887
15 = 8 + 7 / 8 / (1+9+7) = 17 = 1+7 = 8 1
1887
One other odd little number encoding that shows up concerning ISIS.
They declared the Caliphate on 29/6/2014
2+0+1+4 = 7
2+9+6 = 17
I'm not sure why all this confusion. The British windbag to the UN Security Council made it clear in his speech today at the UN that Russia is most certainly to blame. End of. I noted he was reading off a script (presumably written by The Foreign Office).
It wasn't necessary, but Obama advised viewers & listeners not to jump to conclusions about "who did it", saying we must avoid speculation. Before going on to speculate that indications are that it was the Russian backed seppos "who did it" and that Russia must stop supporting them with training/weapons etal.
Obama is making sure all the evidence is confiscated. Once the all clear is given you can expect outrage and more definitive statements blaming the separatists and Russia.
Quoting Mrs. Clinton now...
What difference, at this point, does it make?
Good news! Rose Mary Woods is helping with the transcription.
Clearly there must be some indication on those tapes that the Kiev ATCs steered the plane to its doom.
Here's my question: How does blaming (framing?) Russia keep the gas flowing to Ukraine? Looks like a cold winter in Kiev to me.
They are meant to freeze. Then they get a tanker of Obama gaz from US shale production (also a lie, most likely LNG from somewhere else entirely.)
Then freezing and starving peons of the EU get warm and fuzzy feelings that the Obamao in the Sky is watching over them...and things in the USA and the Ukraine must be far better and the future much brighter.
It'll be a LONG time before any LNG makes it over there. But, the painting of the "bad guys" is for sure the goal, AND, the energy companies that will be kicked out of Russia have to have some kind of business outlet...
Most likely the IRS found it to be broken and had it destroyed
The plane came down in pro Russian separatist territory. How did Kiev get the black box? This makes absolutely no sense unless now black boxes are appearing mysteriously all over the place. The Russians have one or not? Sounds like no one officially wants to know what really happened including the Russians. They all probably already know and no one wants to reveal anything to the world at large. Almost sounds like collusion between Russia, Kiev and the US.
You get a black box...you get a black box...and you get a black...everyone gets a black box (not trying to be sexist and racist here)
It's an air traffic control recording of the conversation, not the plane's.
Hard to believe that there aren't 3rd party recordings of all of the air control traffic out there. Isn't this sent over public airwaves somewhere? (Commerical flight traffic isn't encrypted, is it?)
Yes you can listen in on VHF (short range) from 117-136mhz or so. You have to be line of sight to the airplane and control center communications tower. Who the fuck is going to be recording in the middle of Ukraine, or anywhere else for that matter.
Russia's intelligence community, who are very active in the Ukraine (like the US in Germany) may have known about this in advance and been recording the communications.
All those Russian military units just sitting on the Ukrainian border...
Point taken but any evidence from Russia will be labeled as tainted by the West, or really just the US now. There is no "the West" anymore.
Agreed, but this would be a CIA/Russian FSS conversation to determine what the 'evidence' was.
The problem with that. Assume someone did record it. You need to be able to verify the voices on the recording. The person listening may know it is real but how does anyone else who doesn't. You have to take it at face value it is true. That is easy to discredit/disinformation to get people to not believe it even if it is true. This isn't the Nudelman recording where there are plenty of other voice recording samples that could be used to verify the call as being legit. Not only verify but independently verify it by a third party, why do you think the State Department just came right out and said it was legit and didn't run a disinformation/discredit op on the recording when it leaked. Even then since this a relatively unknown individual like those rebels you can using actors fake relatives claiming to have said information.
You see where this leads and how it ties up the low information, confirmation bias crowd chasing their own tails in circles and ties up the criticially thinking ones trying debunk it.
This the same problem you have with that Spanish flight controller and why they won't disappear him unlike what some other people may think around here.
was not middle of Ukr....kto? you serious?
ZH,
why don't you bring the big story, that the leaked phone calls allegedly from Ukrainian rebels were fabricated already the day BEFORE the takedown?
I have sent you an email but didn't receive any confirmation.
Yeah you incredible sleuths noticed the date discrepancy on the recording. No way those idiots in Kiev would ever notice that huh?
That's the trouble with lies.
It is very hard to cover all the loose ends.
Oh what a something web we weave when first we practise to decieve. William S.
How about Obama's brith certificate, where they have forgotten to combine the Photoshop layers?
Or the alleged Auschwitz gas chambers that never have seen any Zyklon B, or the door of the alleged gaschambers being of thin wood with a normal window and opening to the inside?
Or the shrink heads presented at Nurnberg that were taken from a museum and they forgot to remove the article numbers?
Or how about the daughter of an US ambassador telling under tears the fairy tale of Iraqi soldiers killing babies to feed dogs?
Or the Serbian "concentration camp" fence, that ended right beside the camera and was filmed from inside a plot torwards the outside?
Shlomo, if a plane is shot down on 17th, and the tape was fabricated the day before while it claims the recording was taken on 17th, then no Chutzpah will help that open minded people do not recognize that this stinks to high heaven.
Airliners crashing out of the sky and 'we'll likely never know what happened', yet the NSA has every phone call and email you ever sent collated and archived.
Yea sure.
Has to come down hard on Putin and Russia - this was all orchestrated by Kiev and Washington. The timing is just too damn perfect - right when sanctions have been slammed on Russia again and the U.S. and Europe are screaming for more Russian financial/economic 'blood'. This gives them the added traction they need, if it succeeds.
But the Rooskies may well have intel to disprove it and to expose Kiev and their puppet-masters for what they really are - lying cowards.
You know what this dirty false flag op proves? How DAMNED AFRAID Europe and the U.S. are of a resurgent, independent Russia. So afraid that they went to such an extent to try to slam Putin's Russia back into a convenient corner, by tarring and feathering Putin with this 'scandal'.
I'm betting Pootie is just one good step ahead of them, though - watch for Russia intel disclosure that will slam the onus right back where it belongs - Kiev and Company.
Yea I don't believe for a second that they hoodwinked Putin here, I bet he's just allowing them to paint themselves tightly into the corner.
If so, then...
--- you are asking me to believe they were bold enough, and coordinated enough, to manipulate a civilian flight into the kill zone without anyone noticing anything unusual (including the head of Malaysian Airlines).
...But not coordinated enough to have a prepared media campaign to exploit it??
Are they Ultra-Competent? Or are they bumbling idiots?
You appear to be saying they are both at the same time...and well, that kind of stretches my imagination.
"Are they Ultra-Competent? Or are they bumbling idiots?"
Part of the confusion might be more to do with how they "act" than how they "do." Because all the "do" stuff is nearly impossible to know (all is a "national security issue") we tend to see more of the acting going on.
Barnum and Bailey has a shitload of clowns employed under their Big Tents, but they draw in people and get their money...
OK, so Sergei Lavrov has been quoted as saying Russia does not plan to take the "black box" flight recorders.
Lavrov is a very clever man so there must be a reason why he said this. Perhaps they:
- from their military monitoring/spys, already have complete proof of what happened,
- don't want there to be any possibility that they could have tampered with the evidence in the boxes,
- have pointed out to the US that Malaysia owns the boxes so should decide where they are decoded. On MH370 I think Boeing decoded the boxes,
- have threatened the US, who no doubt has similar evidence, that they will publish (in the UN perhaps) if the boxes are not processed properly with full IATA support.
The game of strategic chess continues.
"On MH370 I think Boeing decoded the boxes,"
Like the fox guarding the hen house?
Boeing is one of the top arms manufacturers in the world. Hardly would I think them unbiased in any of this: think that within the US the Ex-Im bank issue wounldn't be held over their heads to produce a "quality" analysis?
"On MH370, I think Boeing decoded the [black] boxes." Seer?? What are you and the guy above smoking?? Nobody [publicly admits] decoding the MH370 black box because, officially, no one knows where it is. Remember, no wreckage has been found? Or has this turned into an episode of The Twilight Zone?? Don't adjust you screen ...
These recordings will be edited and portions erased. They will then be released, few outside of the US will believe the deception but they will still be used as justifications later. Putin says Russia will not take control of the black boxes. If that is true the data on the black boxes will be edited/erased in the same fashion. Russia says it will not control the investigation. The area is controlled by E and W Ukran thus the WUkran govt with the oversight and involvement of the CIA and FBI will control the investigation. This shoot down was not a mistake but planned with the knowledge and assistance of the CIA/FBI.
Putin the chess player or Putin the realist who is desperate to minimize the damage to his country that is being pursued by the allies? What has happened to Russia's friends? Iraq, Libya, Syria and other smaller lesser knowns. China is good but the other BRICS types are weak and may fold easily. And Malaysia has not been willing to be the US puppet, that is one reason they have been targeted. The US is also trying to drive a wedge between Russia and Malaysia by shooting down their jet and blaming Russia.
The only card Putin seems to have is to wait for winter, and the allies do not appear to intend to let him sit and wait. If Putin had been decisive at the beginning of the Ukran problems and supported action by the legit govt things would be very different. His actions were not of a chess player working a winning postion but one working for a survival strategy.
I think Russia knows what happened to MH370, 9/11, Germany's gold, and others but keeps it's mouth shut out of fear of angering TPTB too much and getting swift (and SWIFT) actions.
We are just one major false flag, possibly within the US borders, before unilateral trade restrictions against Russia are announced and EU countries forced to comply. At that time the US will use NATO to take postions within Ukraine and will possibly begin actions to destabilize countries that border Russia but are not with the allies.
If Putin can make it to winter it will only serve to get the EU countries to pressure the allies to back off until Spring. Then Putin has a little more time to try and to cause an economic crisis in the US.
What is this permanent US fantasy that Malaysia is pro-Russia ? They are bunch of Obama cock suckers
You sure are hung up with Obama and cocksucking...
I suppose that you could Google for yourself, but it seems that you're a bit busy with the Obama and cocksucking thing, so:
The potential of Russian and Malaysian relationship can lead to larger results of cooperation – LavrovRead more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_07_11/The-potential-of-Russian-and-Malaysian-relationship-can-lead-to-larger-results-of-cooperation-Lavrov-1907/
Idiotic idee fixe...like the gay agenda of the US and the UK...or pretending that zero trade with Russia will make the EU prosper more.
Oh lala...i grew up in Jakarta...that other muzzie country where the people spoke the Queens english scared me...i am sure the Russians will be friends with it.
Your homophobia is still showing...
If i had said whores instead...your fear of fear would still be felt ?
You didn't, so I have no need to comment.
It's an issue of repeating something. When one does that then I would think that they have an interest: such as I always repeating that "perpetual growth on a finite planet is not possible"- yeah, I'm hung up on it, but it can be discussed on a simple mathematical/factual basis, and really doesn't require childish name-calling to "educate."
I am not saying the Assholes wouldn't be capable of doing what you say.
But if they are capable of coordinating the shootdown as a false-flag, then why wouldn't they capable of coordinating the propaganda campaign to exploit it?
Why wouldn't the apparent answer line up 1,2, 3 if it were a false flag?
If the Child-in-Chief knew ahead of time, why all the fumble and bumble?
The propaganda campaign has follow the same script as other false flags for the most part. They are not sure what will be thrown at them so they come out vague on facts but hard hitting on a political front (gun control, Russia, etc). Then they have to modify their version of the facts as others come forth with information that makes them look foolish or illinformed. But they do not care, they keep hitting the political agenda.
In some instances they even contradict themselves, at times this seems intential in order to creat so much confusion no one knows what facts to believe anymore and then people just listen to the political agenda.
I think they have done well so far. Their version was put out quickly, they had a story line of it's Russia's fault (but we do not have the facts or backup for our claims yet) and that is the mantra repeated by the govt and the talking heads. They appear clumsy only to those looking for consistent facts and evidence trails.
Perhaps there are some as I do not watch the msm news much, but have any of the msm talking heads pointed the finger at WUkran, the most I've heard are brief comments by msm that the "rebels" claim it was WUkran, then they discredit the rebels and even set the stage for future counter revelations by saying "none of this would be happening if Russia had not caused all this" type of BS.
I think their propoganda campaign is working well for the mass audience it is intended for.
I'm not down-arrowing you (I'm also not up-arrowing, though you get points for articulation).
9/11
Invasion of Iraq (BOTH times)
Any more the story is created based on what people will believe, so much testing is done to feel along. No matter how disjointed the story ends up being (from its origins) beacuse people will have effectively helped create the story (I figure that us here contribute by way of pointing out how given points can be attacked) everyone will have a stake in the story and just go along with it (as a result). Make the water so muddy that no one wants to tread into it (and make sure to taint those crazy that would try it).
What is DONE is more important than what gets SAID. At this point the US is continuing to draw itself into that arena: perhaps its to keep Europe dependent on it? (Germany is starting to lean a bit and something needs to be done to sway the EU ship away from Russia.)
The Assholes.
Everyone has a chance to look at the senseless carnage and ask, "Could we maybe go about this in some other way?"
Instead, the fingers point to the four cardinal directions. Everyone says, "Don't blame me! Blame the man behind that tree!"
There are really only a few countries capable of conducting a comprehensive investigation of the crash site. By convention it is the country where the crash happened. But Ukraine isn't one of the countries that can do it. And which Ukrainians would do it? The West or the East? Next would be the owner of the Airline. But Malaysia isn't really capable of doing it either.
Two of the best countries with a lot of aviation experience to do the investigation are Russia and the US.
If the two children in the respective State Houses could stop pointing fingers it would be a perfect time to offer an olive branch and do a joint investigation, then both can announce how they will work to prevent this from happening again.
Too much to expect from the Children-In-Chief.
I agree 100%. All the shuckin' and jivin' going on stinks to high heaven.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-18/final-moments-flight-mh-17-russ...
You're insights would be useful on another (sane) planet.
I don't tust either of them. Get somebody else to do it. Maybe the UN can appoint some Scandinavians.
It has to be Iceland. They are the only country in the world that is not beholder to the WS Banksters
The American NTSB investigation of TWA 800 proved they can no longer be trusted.
may i just state that this sad time
is not the time
for idle speculation.
let us wait for the facts too be chatham housed,royal institute mossad rendered.
please give some time for the white kosher paint too cure.
in time we should have a lovely story of syriana,kgb ivan and ali the brown beard from malaysia
Except they wrote the script before they shot down the plane so it must just be slow email delivery of the talking points.
Here is the cliff notes version:
MH17: Hey Ukraine we're passing through your battlefield dont shoot us
Ukraine ATC: ya you probably want to fly around Ukraine, we got a war with advanced surface to air missiles happening today
MH17: Roger that UATC we'll fly right through the battle zone, we got aircraft insurance throuhg the US ex-import bank, we can fly anywhere we want with impunity
Fuck those AA missiles
Ukraine ATC: Roger that douchbags!
MH17: No probs, I have flight simulator at home and am beaten the anti-aircraft scenario every time!
Here is the cliff notes version:
MH17: Hey Ukraine we're passing through your battlefield dont shoot us
Ukraine ATC: ya you probably want to fly around Ukraine, we got a war with advanced surface to air missiles happening today
MH17: Roger that UATC we'll fly right through the battle zone, we got aircraft insurance throuhg the US ex-import bank, we can fly anywhere we want with impunity
Fuck those AA missiles
Ukraine ATC: Roger that douchbags!
This is just too much like the 9/11 Pentagon crash, in which they conveniently confiscated all CTV recording around the crash site. Only one was released to the public with some missing frames.
Jumped in here just to say the very same thing!
We all know that we cannot allow the video from the gas station out lest we compromise its security!
Have people not had enough of this shit? Shut ALL of it down! Fire all the clowns and take down the tents...
yup, just like the michael hastings pizza parlor video! ;)
Or alternatively, get Murdoch to buy Time-Warner so the "left" and the "right" will be more co-ordinated in their mass media propaganda. The clowns don't plan on leaving peaceably.
I read a report that Putin's plane was in the vicinity of the Malaysian airline. The Malaysian plane was downed at 15:44 while the presidential plane flew over the same area at 16:21 (all Moscow time). If all this is true then the real target of the downing was Putin himself.
Sure there was a report.
Do you really think Putin would fly over people who want him dead and have the means to do it, for no reason whatsoever?
What report said is that Putin's plane was at the same point and echelon.
The intended flight route was 6,000 miles long, at 35,000 ft going South East.
Any flight that was flying at 35,000 feet going East or North East would cross that flight path, and for an instant be "at the same point and echelon" as the fatal flight.
The whole line was written to decieve. And you bought it.
"Any flight that was flying at 35,000 feet going East or North East would cross that flight path, and for an instant be "at the same point and echelon" as the fatal flight.
The whole line was written to decieve. And you bought it."
It seems to me that you bought it no less than I did>
You brought it up, in which case I'd think that you owe everyone some kind of data point here. That anyone should "trust" anyone's "word" here is foolish.
According to the headline the paths crossed over facing Warsaw. I don't know why people started assuming they were parallel.
Also, there are reports that an IL76 Ukrainian West army resupply flight was in the area and may have been a much more probable target.
If the Ukrainian East army did not have the full BUK set of equipment, which seems likely, they may have launched the missile on line of sight at the IL76 (they shot another one down with a shorter range also lorry mounted AA misile last month) and missed (probably not difficuly as it is a very fast missile so not much margin of error). The missile then kept on going and homed with its internal radar guidance on the unfortunate 777.
I want to copyright this explanation.
So you can launch a BUKwithout its command centre ? You are the expert on Soviet-era weaponry. What do you think of the SNOW DRIFT radar ? How many of the 60 batteries does Ukraine have in action ?
It sucks!
25
Do I pass?
</sarc>
If that is true, Putin must have dived out the plane on his trusty great white shark and hit it with one hell of a rpg shot. Honestly, I think he did it exactly like that. He was probably back in time for dinner too. Classic Putin.
Even if they haven't seized it they would say it, and pay off the dupes. Fiat money is made for this!
Anyone check Victoria Nuland's phone records to Kiev in the past 48 hours?
It is starting to look like the IRS may be involved -
/s/
“In general, the greater the understanding, the greater the delusion; the more intelligent, the less sane.” 1984 GO
A question for anyone that knows ...
Is there any reason why the data captured on black box flight and cockpit recorders could not be simultaneously "live stream" to a specialist international flight data centre somewhere? And, if it is possible to do this, why weren't such protocols put in place ten/twenty years ago?
It seems utterly bizarre to me that you have to physically retrieve the box to pull the data. Surely, in the majority of air accidents, it is, by default, difficult to retrieve the box intact.
How do you know that it is not being done?
All we know is that such as data stream in nonpublic.
Yes it can be done.
Yes it is done.
But it has limits because to transmit there has to be an intact transmitter, power source, and antenna.
All three of those things are in scarce supply on an aircraft that is disintegrating.
The technology in these black boxes is old tech and designed to resist all kinds of forces and situations, like hitting the ground at 100MPH plus.
Rapid extraction of data is not on the list of requirements, there is no need under normal circumstances as a good old cable is perfectly OK. Survival of that data is much more important.
How would that profitable?
There's your answer. No demand for it.
Trying to bury ANOTHER botched false flag job. When will these retards give up?
"Umm yess, eyurr contol thyr ees meesile wis Roshian flag coming up now. I can read sign says From Roshia With" SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Do I detect a pro-Russian, anti-Ukranian, anti-American bias here that might obscure the true course of rectitude?
Are you having psychiatric problems ? Ukraine is a made-up state comprising Galicians who were part of Austro-Hungary until 1918 and are Catholic and Eastern Ukrainians who speak Russian and are Russian Orthodox - both are Ukrainians.
How is it "pro-Russian; anti-Ukrainian" to respect the right of Russian-speaking Ukrainians to speak Russian in Ukraine ? Will the Us make it a criminal offence to speak Spanish or Yiddish or Greek in the USA ?
Why should people in Eastern Ukraine want to be massacred as they were by Stefan Bandera's crew in the 1940s ?
It also may be recalled that the new governor of Donetsk Region, who is quoted here, is junta-appointed Ukraine Oligarch Sergey Taruta, ranked by Forbes magazine among the richest people in the world, with his estimated wealth being over 2.7 billion US dollars, putting him among the top-10 wealthiest people in Ukraine. Kostyantyn Batovsky is adviser to Taruta.
As reported by RT in March, Taruta is one of the two of Ukraine’s oligarchs appointed by the self-proclaimed government in Kiev to govern large industrial regions in the defiant east. “One of the reasons for the Maidan protest was the influence the rich have on politics in the country.”
The appointments of new governors of Donetsk and Dnepropetrovsk Regions were made in early March as the Kiev junta was struggling to consolidate power after the coup…
The Kiev-appointed Dnepropetrovsk governor is Igor Kolomoysky, Ukraine’s third-wealthiest man, with an estimated fortune of $2.4 billion. "Kolomoysky has a dual Ukrainian-Israeli citizenship and controls his business empire from Switzerland.”
As one commenter said at the time of the appointments: “Are they handing out fiefs? I’m sick of it. Is that what the people died for at the Maidan?”
You do. Welcome to the club.
Its called awake...look into it..
You're a real Hoot!
"Violence, less and less embarrassed by the limits imposed by centuries of lawfulness, is brazenly and victoriously striding across the whole world, unconcerned that its infertility has been demonstrated and proved many times in history. What is more, it is not simply crude power that triumphs abroad, but its exultant justification. The world is being inundated by the brazen conviction that power can do anything, and justice nothing."
Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn
In short, the world has gone mad....
The SBU has issued dozens of doctored recordings of other conversations already.
You should watch the European TV coverage of Lugansk. Shelling civilian areas with absolutely no military (pro-separatist) value and cutting civilian men, women and children down with the shrapnel. Makes Gaza look tame. Chocolate man in Kiev is really making a "scorched earth" battle plan REAL.
Most likely scenario is that Kiev ATC diverted the plane toward Donetsk, sent two fighters to trail it so that it didn't change course, set up their own SAM battery in the disputed territory, and blasted the plane from the sky. This is the only scenario that fits the facts and also fits the motive.
Why does that fit better than:
- the aircraft chose a stupid route
- the East Ukrainians had lost their early warning radar, but thought they saw another Uke transport
-So they lit up the radar on the TELAR and shot it?
If they don't have a TELAR, how have they been shooting down AN-26's at the same altitude?
Why should I believe people could see tiny camoflage fighters at 33,000 ft, when I can barely see GIGANTIC BRIGHTLY PAINTED Civilian aircraft at the same height reliably?
Try it!
1) Go to http://www.flightradar24.com
2) Choose a plane at approximately the right altitude over your head.
3) Go outside and try to see it.
4) Report back the color it was painted (cause if you can't see that, you ain't gonna see the camoflaged fighter)
Is this so unreasonable? If you can barely see a huge airplane at that altitude, why should you believe reports that others could see tiny camoflaged fighters?
AN26 at same altitude?
Need check that. Not sure they fly that high.
AN26 shoots were very much lower, as far as I remember.
Vodkadav you're right
There is a huge difference between something that fits the facts and something that stretches them. The scenario in which the plane was purposefully diverted and escorted to its sure death by the Kiev's regime, is the one that fits the facts. Everything else is obfuscation and misdirection. All of that to say is that I agree with NoWayJose.
I'm not sure why people are pounding on you. I'd hold out your offerings as true possibilities that are withing the scope of reasonableness. I have not yet made by purchase of which story, so in no way am I purchasing yours at this time.
Folks should consider how lesser-trained militants(?) that don't have the luxury of a full blown connection to intelligence and military body might react to something like this. If it's the case that civilian aircraft haven't been flying in this area then I could see these folks being a bit spooked and quick on a trigger. I suppose it's possible that Russia was well aware of what was going on but didn't notify (intentionally or technical reasons?), perhaps like US agencies knowing about the lead-up to 9/11 but doing nothing; maybe, MAYBE, Russia sees this as a way to get in the area and cliam the right to help protect these folks? (about the only motive I could see here)
That's right. I forgot about the Western Ukranians' irrational hatred of the Dutch.
Partial to Whisky & Cognac in the winter months and Cold Beer & Gin Tonics ( plenty lemons ) in the summer months no one can accuse me of clouded judgement when i say that the 3 stooges ( Coconut Boy Barry, John Al Nusra McStain , John HossShit Kerry ) are well overpaid by the Bankster Mafia for fucking up entry points to WW111.
Furthermore any 3 regulars on Z/H could do a far better job using our tax-payer funds.
ZH: your sole sorce of baseless speculations since 2009.
Deprogramming you is going to take longer than usual...
True it is.
ZH: Consistently beating Cramer at offering the worst investment advise since 2009.
but you missed the point... look at the the advice peddled for shit on those networks during 2005, 2006, 2007 and parts of 2008...
There's no investment advice on this site. This isn't Seeking Alpha.
Show me one article that says buy or short stock XYX.
You can definitely try to front run stocks using the info on this site since that's what most "investing" is these days.
Most of the stopper calls were slam dunks.
Another one just for you.
ZH: Your daily dose of "the world is ending tomorrow" rumours presented as facts.
Its not ending tomorrow mimi.....now next week may be a different story...plan accordingly
Hey, it could end tomorrow.
Not according to my magic 8 ball....but my eight ball is white and powdery...
decommisioned pentagon equipment
.
Looks like Gyoza Mimi has been terminated...
Good riddance!
POOF, and another one is GONE'd! No tear shed for the loss of trolls... but sad that folks have to be booted; I suppose, however, that adults eventually need to be called to act, and it's not with glee (just doing yer job Tylers, a job that I know that you don't enjoy but sometimes shit needs to be shoveled).
He's going to need 2 red pills.
he picked the wrong week to quit the blue pills
Don't discount CNN. They spent 1000 hours covering MH370. And 99% of it was baseless speculation.
Actually, since you mention it, why don't you find a better site?
'cause there are none. As you mentioned, CNN can manage only 99%. Onion is 99.99%. But ZH has world purest 99.99999% speculation clarity.
This isn't an investing site. And it isn't the BBC.