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Was Malaysian Airlines MH-17 ACCIDENTALLY Shot Down Over Ukraine?

George Washington's picture




 

While it is too early to know who shot down Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17 over Ukraine yesterday - and while it could have been a false flag -  it would be good to remember that airlines have accidentally been shot down numerous times in the past.

After all, the Malaysian airlines plane was way off course:

The plane flew over a war zone, which was well-known to be a “no fly zone” with “restricted airspace”.

The Los Angeles Times reports:

Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was cruising just 1,000 feet above restricted airspace when it was struck by a missile in Ukraine’s Donetsk region, according to aviation and intelligence officials.

 

Despite ongoing violence in eastern Ukraine, including the recent downing of two military aircraft, Ukrainian aviation officials had closed the region’s airspace only below 32,000 feet in altitude.

 

The Boeing 777, en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, the Malaysian capital, with 298 people aboard, was at 33,000 feet when it vanished from radar screens, according to European aviation authorities.

 

***

 

In recent days, though, military aircraft were downed by antiaircraft munitions, which should have concerned aviation authorities, he said.

Reuters notes:

Malaysia Airlines filed a flight plan requesting to fly at 35,000 feet throughout Ukraine airspace but was instructed by Ukraine air traffic control to fly at 33,000 feet upon entry ….

CBS writes in an article entitled “‘Big Question’ Is Why Plane Was Flying Over War Zone”:

During a phone interview with CBS News Thursday morning, Captain Capt. Chesley “Sully” Sullenberger was questioned why Malaysia Airlines flight 17 would be flying over Ukraine’s border with Russia despite ongoing political unrest in the area.

 

Sullenberger, the veteran of the 2009 Miracle on the Hudson landing, is an aviation expert for CBS News….

 

“That is one of the big questions right now,” said Sully. “The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration has barred U.S. Airlines from flying over this area for some time.”

The Atlantic points out:

Did aviation authorities know that this was a dangerous area?

Yes, they most certainly did. Nearly three months ago, on the “Special Rules” section of its site, the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration put out an order prohibiting American pilots, airlines, charter carriers, and everyone else over whom the FAA has direct jurisdiction, from flying over parts of Ukraine.

Bloomberg adds:

Qantas hasn’t used the route for a few months, said Andrew McGinnes, a spokesman for the Australian carrier, while Hong Kong-based Cathay Pacific said it has been detouring for “quite some time.” Korean Air Lines Co. and Asiana Airlines Inc. said in statements they have been avoiding the area since March 3.

This is not the first time such an incident has occurred …

Numerous Previous Accidental Shootdowns ... By Russia, Ukraine, and Other Countries

In 1954, mainland China's Army shot down a Cathay Pacific Airways airplane, killing 10 out of the 19 passengers.   Cathay Pacific was the airline of Hong Kong, then under British control). In apologizing for the attack to Britain, the Chinese government said that they had thought the plane was a military aircraft from the Taiwan on an attack mission.

In 1973, a Libyan Arab Airlines Boeing 727 flying from Tripoli to Cairo got lost and flew over the Sinai peninsula,  under Israeli control since the Six-Day War in 1967. After giving signals to land and firing warning shots, Israeli jets shot down the plane, killing 108 of the 113 people on board.  The chief of staff of the Israeli armed forces took responsibility for ordering the shoot-down, the Defense Minister called the event an "error of judgment", and the Israeli government compensated the families of victims (Libya condemned the attack as "a criminal act" while the Soviets called it a "monstrous new crime").

In 1983, a Korean airlines passenger airline was shot down by a Soviet pilot killing all 269 passengers.  The pilot had accidentally deviated from the normal flight path:

A simplified CIA map showing divergence of planned and actual flight paths.

 

The Soviets believed it was likely a military aircraft. Transcripts quote the shootdown order from Soviet General Kornukov:

What civilian? [It] has flown over Kamchatka! It [came] from the ocean without identification. I am giving the order to attack if it crosses the State border.

The Washington Post reported in 1988:

A U.S. warship fighting gunboats in the Persian Gulf yesterday mistook an Iranian civilian jetliner for an attacking Iranian F14 fighter plane and blew it out of the hazy sky with a heat-seeking missile, the Pentagon announced. Iran said 290 persons were aboard the European-made A300 Airbus and that all had perished.

 

“The U.S. government deeply regrets this incident,” Adm. William J. Crowe Jr., chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told a Pentagon news conference.

 

***

 

Navy officials said the Vincennes’ combat teams believed the airliner to be an Iranian F14 jet fighter.

Ukraine admitted to accidentally shooting down a Russian airliner in 2001, killing all 78 on board as the aircraft plunged into the Black Sea:

Ukraine finally admitted yesterday that its military shot down a Russian airliner that crashed into the Black Sea last week, killing all 78 passengers and crew.

 

Evhen Marchuk, the chairman of Ukraine’s security council, conceded that the plane had probably been brought down by “an accidental hit from an S-200 rocket fired during exercises”.

And – according to several government investigators tasked with determining what happened – an American missile test which went astray may have accidentally brought down TWA 800, killing all 230 on board.

 

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Sat, 07/19/2014 - 17:29 | 4977972 RazvanM
RazvanM's picture

Oh, ok. Change in the Russian narrative. This is called massaging reality, or spinning? I am really looking forward to a spin that will make Putin, from a murderer and the sponsor of war in the neighbouring Country, a peace-loving guy, with love and respect for human life.

I am really glad that the "insurgents" (really, Russian commandos and trained troops waging war in Ukraine), don't have <strong>yet</strong> ICMBs. Otherwise they may <strong>accidentaly</strong> wipe a few Western countries from the face of the Earth.

Sun, 07/20/2014 - 06:27 | 4979206 Peacen1k
Peacen1k's picture

How about losing that hysterical tone and looking at all available facts rather than 'narratives'? Apply some critical thinking, if you're able, and you may be surprised.

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 17:26 | 4977965 alexcojones
alexcojones's picture

BTW - George,

The things I like about your stuff is the research you do with links, ofter to reputable people and perps, and your replies to friend and foe.

Mike Synder and Simon Black and Kunstler never do that.

Hat tips to infinity, George

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 17:24 | 4977954 alexcojones
alexcojones's picture

GW - Have you considered this?

The guy writes like Tom Clancy met Isaac Asimov. His claimed credentials seem legit (?)

   "In these still early hours following the mystery crash of MH17, one must dare to think the unthinkable. An investigator goes to where the evidence leads, and the evidence so far from the crash site indicates a hellish scenario beyond imagining. . . .
 
    "The gruesome finding points irrefutably to Malthusian skulduggery at the highest levels of the World Health Organization (WHO) in sponsoring a covert biological warfare program against the population of Asia. A systematic investigation is now required to uncover the deadliest plot against humanity in modern history. The more predictable outcome, unfortunately, is likely to be a cover-up on an unprecedented scale to protect the globalist elite from scrutiny, legal prosecution and justice."

MH17 Gruesome Cargo - Infected Corpses, Tainted Blood

 

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 15:21 | 4977618 luftmensch
luftmensch's picture

Just a friendly reminder that Russia's propaganda army is actively spamming ZH and other sites:

 

  • "Russian government agencies have been accused of editing a Wikipedia article to suggest the Ukrainian military was responsible for the downing of the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17"
  • "The Guardian readers’ editor reports 40,000 comments a day by an “orchestrated pro-Kremlin campaign” of pro-Russia trolling on Ukraine stories."
  • "...each commenter was to write no less than 100 comments a day, while people in the other room were to write four postings a day, which then went to the other employees whose job was to post them on social networks as widely as possible."
  • "Vladimir Putin uses an invisible army of social media propagandists, in addition to conventional media, to support his narrative of an out-of-control Ukraine, to spread fabrications of atrocities by Ukrainian extremists, and to unleash destabilizing rumors on east Ukraine."
  • "Mr. Putin, as a young KGB officer in Berlin, was not an intelligence agent but a disinformation specialist...Putin’s invisible disinformation campaign is a carbon copy of the one Stalin used during the Great Terror (1937-1938) and World War II…"


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/malaysia-airlines-mh17-crash-russian-government-agencies-accused-of-wikipedia-edit-blaming-ukraine-for-shooting-down-plane-9616536.html

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/10/russias-online-comment-propaganda-army/280432/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/11/inside-putins-campaign-of-social-media-trolling-and-faked-ukrainian-crimes/

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 17:24 | 4977953 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

OK "luftmensch"... I'll play. ZH reported that the Ukrainian Security Service has confiscated all recordings of communications between Kiev ATC and the doomed airliner. Why, and when will the unadulterated tapes be released?

For an innocent party, they sure act culpable.

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 22:23 | 4978818 luftmensch
luftmensch's picture

Bendromeda, exactly how is that related to my post talking about Russian online propaganda activities?  In any case, I think we can safely say that most news coming out of any country that heavily controls its media is suspect.

This particular ZH article seems to be focusing on one of the kremlin's talking points, which is to bring up some decades old incidents, rather than focus on the event at hand.  It suggests the plane was "off course", but there are other sources saying they took the course to save $1500 per flight as compared to going around the war zone.  It's a financial decision all international airlines have to make daily.  Surprisingly, it is apparently quite common to fly over war zones.

Regarding the black boxes, there seem to be many conflicting reports as to who has them, who won't take them, etc.  New articles are coming out hourly at this point.  Also according to this article, they may not contain much useful data.

 

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 15:28 | 4977652 no more banksters
no more banksters's picture

No doubt. They've learned the job from the Western mouthpieces who monopolize propaganda for decades.

Sun, 07/20/2014 - 00:54 | 4978592 luftmensch
luftmensch's picture

yes, I'm sure they needed help, after all, the Soviets, German Stasi, KGB, Putin, they are all new to this propaganda idea, never heard of such a thing...

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 14:15 | 4977447 Dublinmick
Sat, 07/19/2014 - 15:17 | 4977613 George Washington
George Washington's picture

Agnostic on everything at this point, but this was linked by Naked Capitalism:  Evidence Continues to Emerge #MH17 Is a False Flag Operation

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 18:40 | 4978179 acetinker
acetinker's picture

It was also re-posted on the burning platform, you know, that Quinn fella.  I'm startin' to see a coalescence of the thoughtful, and i think it's a good sign.

That Saker fella is a 911 skeptic, for sure- But Quinn re-posts his stuff lately.  It's weird and it's good, all at once.

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 14:13 | 4977443 Dublinmick
Dublinmick's picture

https://therearenosunglasses.wordpress.com/2014/07/19/was-crashed-malays...

I am getting a sick feeling this could all be true

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 21:12 | 4978612 Dublinmick
Dublinmick's picture

I have not seen it but will take a look at it. There seems something not right about the saker fella.

911 skeptic, says Russian religion stands on the giant shoulders of jews.

Always yapping about donations. Hey get a wordpress. I do and don't ask for donations!!!

You can get most info he has from the slavyansk wordpress site by Molotov anyway.

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 21:14 | 4978615 Dublinmick
Dublinmick's picture

Oh hell that explains the malaysian problem right there, found bush and blair guilty. Plus they are muslim and not cooperating right.

Sun, 07/20/2014 - 21:54 | 4981962 acetinker
acetinker's picture

Maybe yer being a smartass, maybe yer just bein Irish, I dunno.  I do know that yer being a dumbass if ya' don't think this is relevant.

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 13:05 | 4977212 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

 The area where the Malaysian passenger jet MH17 fell in Ukraine is a crash site not a crime site! Painting it as a crime site does not make it so. Whether shot down by accident or intentionally, most of the evidence on how and why this occurred will most likely come from sources other than where the flight went down. I for one feel total disgust and seriously distressed that this tragedy has become nothing more than a propaganda gem. More on this topic in the article below.

 http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2014/07/ukraine-crash-propaganda-gem.html

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 13:05 | 4977211 Iwanttoknow
Iwanttoknow's picture

Nobody ever mentions a Libyan passenger airplane shot down in cold blood by "The only democracy in middle east" in 1973.

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 12:41 | 4977115 Perimetr
Perimetr's picture

Of course it was an accident.
The CIA mercs running the op thought they were shooting down Putin's plane.

Sun, 07/20/2014 - 01:00 | 4979048 luftmensch
luftmensch's picture

Perimetr is the original man of mystery, best buddies w the men of Langley, used to be in the service, after the special forces of course, he can't talk about anything in detail of course, would have to kill us all 1st lol.  But, rest assured he knows everything going on in he world today, and would love to post the links to the pictures, but sadly can't.

Perim is so bad ass he personally has access to the nsa files of everyone posting here.  He actually has a backdoor into the spy satellites that took live footage of the ariplane being bombed.  He's not really supposed to speak about this, but hey, he was on his coffee break and just wanted to throw us a bone and let us know what's going on, on the down low, friend to friend.

Thank you peri, please continue to keep us all informed!

 

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 13:13 | 4977240 Remington IV
Remington IV's picture

Obama's fault

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 12:39 | 4977110 yellowsub
yellowsub's picture

Accident or not why are the "pilots" flying over a war zone to begin with?  

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 17:28 | 4977970 pipes
pipes's picture

Why does everyone forget that planes can be controlled remotely?

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 18:22 | 4978116 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

the controversial on board device known as the Boeing Uninterruptible Autopilot that has supposedly been equipped in all Boeing planes since 1995, according to Field McConnell, a retired 35 year Delta pilot, “This information was apparently not released until March of 2007, following a subsequent lawsuit by McConnell. The modification was reported to the FAA, NTSB and ALPA ( airline pilots association). According to McConnell’s documents, Boeing is said to have stated that by end of 2009 all Boeing planes would be fitted with the BUAP - making them impossible to manually hijack within the plane but susceptible to remote control by the military, according the flight veteran.”

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 13:27 | 4977294 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

reportedly

The Ukrainian air traffic controllers directed the flight over Donetsk and lower to make it more vulnerable to attack.
The records of the air controllers contact with the plane have been seized by Kiev and declared secret.

Kiev moved buk systems to Donetsk just days before the attack.
Those systems were switched on at the time of the downing.

 

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 12:19 | 4977046 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

GW 

How do you 'accidentally' shoot down a public airliner?

What you smoking son, propaganda brand weed?

 

 

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 13:17 | 4977259 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

 Given that Kiev controlled/determined the "unusual" flight path:

It is illogical to believe Donetsk planned/intended to shoot down MH-17 in a false flag operation.

thus, either

1) MH-17 was deliberately directed into harm's way in the hopes that (ill-trained?) Donetsk forces (ill-equipped for proper identification?) would mistakenly shoot it down.

2) MH-17 was stupidly/negligently directed into harm's way where (ill-trained?) Donetsk forces (ill-equipped for proper identification?) would mistakenly shoot it down.

or

3) MH-17 was deliberately directed into harm's way so Kiev forces would shoot it down in a false flag attempt (desperate from recent military setbacks?)

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 17:32 | 4977977 pipes
pipes's picture

or

4)MH17 was a "fly-by-wire" victim, shot down as planned by black-ops types in an ambiguous enough manner that any number of narratives could be floated. 

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 10:34 | 4976819 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

An investigation is warranted as to whether

MH-17 was DELIBERATELY guided into harm's way

in the hope that the Donetsk forces would ACCIDENTALLY (mistakenly) shoot it down.

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 10:14 | 4976769 Lumberjack
Lumberjack's picture
Rescuers Recover Second Black Box From Malaysia Airlines Crash in East Ukraine

 

MOSCOW, July 18 (RIA Novosti) — Rescue workers have recovered the second black box from the Malaysian Airlines passenger airplanethat crashed in eastern Ukraine, Reuters reported citing an eyewitness Friday.

Earlier a spokesman from the Vostok Battalion said that they had found several objects that could be black boxes near the town of Torez where the aircraft crashed.

A Malaysia Airlines Boeing-777 flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur crashed near the town of Torez in the Donetsk Region on Thursday. There were 283 passengers and 15 crew members on board, none of them survived.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said earlier on Friday one flight recorder from the plane had allegedly been found by local militia who might take it to Russia in an attempt to "hide all traces."

 

==========

In other news...

BRICS to Help Russia Eliminate Drug Production in Afghanistan
Sat, 07/19/2014 - 09:42 | 4976725 PR Guy
PR Guy's picture

 

 

 

It was vodka that brought down MH17. These pro-Russian paramilitary jokes have a lot of weapons and are wondering around permanently pissed. Hey comrade (HIC) do you think this missile could (HIC) reach that plane up there?

 

I bet I am right.

 

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 06:51 | 4976609 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

LC55 Asia Report:

DOS attck on ZH???

Hope this goes thru

Here in Asia, combined muslim hindu christian contacts DO NOT think Russia would fire or permit fire on MA.

Suspect grab for OIL, suspect Power grab by TPTB for OIL
Suspect PTB trying to derail BRIC Bank.
Individuals here suspect The Money Power.

Two contacts suggested connection with missing MA aircraft two mos. ago.

US Media now heavily censored.

Modi's aircraft AI 1 and Putin's RF 1 near missile launch area, Indian Press.

-30-

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 05:20 | 4976558 NuYawkFrankie
NuYawkFrankie's picture

Executed perfectly by Zio Scum to co-incide with Gaza onslaught.

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 12:16 | 4977038 Plato's Law
Plato&#039;s Law's picture

The timing is strong evidence supporting this conclusion.  Funny how this airplane crash takes #1 place in MSM news coverage, moving the worst war in the ME in many years to #2. 

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 04:02 | 4976534 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

In this 'american' world, Malaysia is the perfect guilty. Funny how 'americans' work.

It was expected: Malaysia air company is going to be questioned, even though they comply with the air space requirements. As determining who has taken the shot might lead to unwanted conclusions, as a sudden, placing the burden of responsibility on the maylasian company is somehow so tempting for 'americans'.

Now compare: 'americans' have a long history of encroaching on other people's territory, most of the time, warned not to do so. Even now, when 'americans' are warned not to get into one country by every side possible and that stuff happens when they go, 'americans' never miss the opportunity of blaming the abducters etc
The very idea that 'americans' were unwelcomed and warned to be at the wrong place is not even brushed.
'Americans' must be able to go wherever they want, whenever they want.

Here we got a malaysian airline company that flew one plane in an accepting air space and suddenly, bingo, why did they do that? Was it not that dumb to do so?

The spirit of injustice and the american worhsip for it, it is always as surprising.

It is what happens when you keep covering for the 'american' middle class.

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 11:23 | 4976924 joethegorilla
joethegorilla's picture

What does America have to do with this?

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 14:55 | 4977564 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

What does America have to do with this?
_________________________________

This blog is written to seduce the 'american' middle class. The author is ready to anything, even implying that the Maylasians are responsible.

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 12:43 | 4977125 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

everyone on the planet hates America ...your foreign policies have made enemies of everyone ..even driven mortal enemies Russia and China to hold joint naval operations off Shanghai

just go with the flow bud ..world's on a roll... US Govt haters are breeding like rabbits globally 

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 18:12 | 4978088 joethegorilla
joethegorilla's picture

OK. but what doesn America have to do with shooting down this plane?

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 15:42 | 4977697 Ocean22
Ocean22's picture

This is by design. America has been targeted for destruction. They are the new hitler. All their actions are supposed to infuriate the world so that when Russia nukes them it will seem justified. Americans are too dumb to see the forest for the trees

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 18:14 | 4978091 joethegorilla
joethegorilla's picture

If America gets nuked everyone gets nuked.

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 14:22 | 4977468 Mitzibitzi
Mitzibitzi's picture

Noticeable even in the UK, though again it's US government imperialist foreign policy that people hate, not Americans in general. There are brash, loud-mouthed assholes in every nation; I haven't noticed that the US is particularly over supplied with them.

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 14:29 | 4977492 Dublinmick
Dublinmick's picture

Nothing more disgusting than a British mob bellowing about morality and imperialist foreign policy. Have you no idea who runs the city of London?

 

http://www.in5d.com/40-outrageous-facts-most-people-dont-know.html

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 05:37 | 4976578 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

There's no way shooting down a commercial jet liner with a fighter aircraft is accidental "General Washington."

It's your job to know what you're blowing out of the sky...and simply put Russia could care less...and they have said so with this current shooting down...of "friend or foe" issues.

These are a people hardened by centuries of war...Putin especially. "They just don't care" and say so publicly is the Russian Way.

I respect that btw. Those actually having to execute on this Administration's policy goals will have to learn to respect that now too.

This ain't no backyard barbecue.

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 14:38 | 4977519 Dublinmick
Dublinmick's picture

Are you on playstation II now vet?

Sat, 07/19/2014 - 13:52 | 4977395 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

What ?!?!?!

the USA has been almost continuously conducting warfare for 200 years.

and you apparenly block out when the US shot down a commercial jet liner over

Iran claiming it "mistakenly took it to be a jet fighter"

something you just insisted cannot happen!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/flight801/stories/ju...

 

 

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