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Was Malaysian Airlines MH-17 ACCIDENTALLY Shot Down Over Ukraine?
While it is too early to know who shot down Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17 over Ukraine yesterday - and while it could have been a false flag - it would be good to remember that airlines have accidentally been shot down numerous times in the past.
After all, the Malaysian airlines plane was way off course:
The plane flew over a war zone, which was well-known to be a “no fly zone” with “restricted airspace”.
The Los Angeles Times reports:
Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was cruising just 1,000 feet above restricted airspace when it was struck by a missile in Ukraine’s Donetsk region, according to aviation and intelligence officials.
Despite ongoing violence in eastern Ukraine, including the recent downing of two military aircraft, Ukrainian aviation officials had closed the region’s airspace only below 32,000 feet in altitude.
The Boeing 777, en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, the Malaysian capital, with 298 people aboard, was at 33,000 feet when it vanished from radar screens, according to European aviation authorities.
***
In recent days, though, military aircraft were downed by antiaircraft munitions, which should have concerned aviation authorities, he said.
Reuters notes:
Malaysia Airlines filed a flight plan requesting to fly at 35,000 feet throughout Ukraine airspace but was instructed by Ukraine air traffic control to fly at 33,000 feet upon entry ….
CBS writes in an article entitled “‘Big Question’ Is Why Plane Was Flying Over War Zone”:
During a phone interview with CBS News Thursday morning, Captain Capt. Chesley “Sully” Sullenberger was questioned why Malaysia Airlines flight 17 would be flying over Ukraine’s border with Russia despite ongoing political unrest in the area.
Sullenberger, the veteran of the 2009 Miracle on the Hudson landing, is an aviation expert for CBS News….
“That is one of the big questions right now,” said Sully. “The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration has barred U.S. Airlines from flying over this area for some time.”
The Atlantic points out:
Did aviation authorities know that this was a dangerous area?
Yes, they most certainly did. Nearly three months ago, on the “Special Rules” section of its site, the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration put out an order prohibiting American pilots, airlines, charter carriers, and everyone else over whom the FAA has direct jurisdiction, from flying over parts of Ukraine.
Bloomberg adds:
Qantas hasn’t used the route for a few months, said Andrew McGinnes, a spokesman for the Australian carrier, while Hong Kong-based Cathay Pacific said it has been detouring for “quite some time.” Korean Air Lines Co. and Asiana Airlines Inc. said in statements they have been avoiding the area since March 3.
This is not the first time such an incident has occurred …
Numerous Previous Accidental Shootdowns ... By Russia, Ukraine, and Other Countries
In 1954, mainland China's Army shot down a Cathay Pacific Airways airplane, killing 10 out of the 19 passengers. Cathay Pacific was the airline of Hong Kong, then under British control). In apologizing for the attack to Britain, the Chinese government said that they had thought the plane was a military aircraft from the Taiwan on an attack mission.
In 1973, a Libyan Arab Airlines Boeing 727 flying from Tripoli to Cairo got lost and flew over the Sinai peninsula, under Israeli control since the Six-Day War in 1967. After giving signals to land and firing warning shots, Israeli jets shot down the plane, killing 108 of the 113 people on board. The chief of staff of the Israeli armed forces took responsibility for ordering the shoot-down, the Defense Minister called the event an "error of judgment", and the Israeli government compensated the families of victims (Libya condemned the attack as "a criminal act" while the Soviets called it a "monstrous new crime").
In 1983, a Korean airlines passenger airline was shot down by a Soviet pilot killing all 269 passengers. The pilot had accidentally deviated from the normal flight path:
A simplified CIA map showing divergence of planned and actual flight paths.
The Soviets believed it was likely a military aircraft. Transcripts quote the shootdown order from Soviet General Kornukov:
What civilian? [It] has flown over Kamchatka! It [came] from the ocean without identification. I am giving the order to attack if it crosses the State border.
The Washington Post reported in 1988:
A U.S. warship fighting gunboats in the Persian Gulf yesterday mistook an Iranian civilian jetliner for an attacking Iranian F14 fighter plane and blew it out of the hazy sky with a heat-seeking missile, the Pentagon announced. Iran said 290 persons were aboard the European-made A300 Airbus and that all had perished.
“The U.S. government deeply regrets this incident,” Adm. William J. Crowe Jr., chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told a Pentagon news conference.
***
Navy officials said the Vincennes’ combat teams believed the airliner to be an Iranian F14 jet fighter.
Ukraine admitted to accidentally shooting down a Russian airliner in 2001, killing all 78 on board as the aircraft plunged into the Black Sea:
Ukraine finally admitted yesterday that its military shot down a Russian airliner that crashed into the Black Sea last week, killing all 78 passengers and crew.
Evhen Marchuk, the chairman of Ukraine’s security council, conceded that the plane had probably been brought down by “an accidental hit from an S-200 rocket fired during exercises”.
And – according to several government investigators tasked with determining what happened – an American missile test which went astray may have accidentally brought down TWA 800, killing all 230 on board.
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One of my favorite "accidental" bombings is that by Clinton of the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade:
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/04/17/world/chinese-embassy-bombing-a-wide-n...
Watch and listen close-you tell me whats missing, and if you figure it out-add it to the questionable list which is getting longer by the hour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKIlueJg4cA
thanks gw & zh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKIlueJg4cA
That's not Malaysia 017. The AC in the video is structurally intact. You can see both wings and the vertical stabiliser in place and the AC is flying as it falls. The reports of MH017 are that it broke up into many pieces and spewed parts and bodies, which came to earth over a wide area.
If after Afghanistan, Sudan, Simalia, Libya, Eqypt and Syria ( not to forget Bosnia, Chechnya, Serbia etc) anyone who believes what America says ...... draw your conclusions
No.
This video has not been confirmed, as the website informs, but his website has had reliable information on issues in the past.
Why would chaff be falling just after MH17 crashed if it was not being followed by military jets who deployed their chaff to avoid having the missle target them instead of the airliner?
One of the storylines being investigated is that MH17 was instructed to follow this route, that the pilots protested but were ordered to take the route and that two Ukraine military jets started following the airliner to ensure it stayed on this course. If the chaff in the video is real then it would be from these military jets.
http://pissinontheroses.blogspot.com/
This absolutely reeks of PSY-OP....Things like that will happen from time to time when you let a cabal of NWO-zionists run the show....For what it's worth, I am completely aware of the inflammatory nature of my insinuations. May the search for Truth be our only guide and let the chips fall where they may! So yes,I would even consider as a possibility that V. Putin said: Let's go ahead and down a civilian airplane full of innocents and make it look like the Russians did it.....On second thought, I would not consider that option for very long........
IMF/US-backed Ukrainiacs shelling its own citizens, killing them with snipers in the Kiev square, ordering Malaysia 17 to fly over war zone at low altitude, keeping up the warmongering at the behest of their Luciferian bosses.
I suggest that the IMMEDIATE response of MSM was to plant in everyones mind that a missile was involved/the cause. A beautiful distraction.
The crash site indicated that MH17 came down almost intact- so a missile is not implicated/is impossible. Another Laser take down ??
Consider
When a Malaysian airliner hits the ground it leaves tons of debris, but when an American airliner hits the Pentagon, it leaves none.
Who shot down the plane and why? Instead of waiting for more information to be revealed, we ought to take a vote of the those ignorant of facts and lacking lots of information, but full of opinion. The media wants us to emote.
Emote first, examine and think later, maybe.
Exactly. Look at the front page of HuffPo and Drudge right now.
Drudge has long ago sold his site into something Hearst would be proud of.
..cutting edge sensationalism at it's worst.
Funny how they [Huff Post] choose their words to describe the same thing:
.. Soviet destruction of Korean Air Lines flight…
.. the accidental downing of an Iran Air Airbus A300 by the U.S. Navy…
MSM at its best … don’t worry the sheep will fall for it ..
Drudge? – only check it out to see what ours masters want us to "see".
..*****NUCLEAR MATERIAL STOLEN IN PHOENIX!!*****
..turns out to be a stolen construction device to measure soils compaction- but to be fair, it was larger than a smoke detector.. (yeah, I can do the same thing.)
Whatever the case may or may not be, and we will never really know, the DC US and their dog-wagging masters, Israel, are responsible.
I wonder if Nuland has any cookies for the families of those lost on MH-17?!
Fog of War...this is why war is such a waste. If I was Putin I'd do a body count of US caused civilian deaths in drone attacks. Of course Europeans and Americans might only count those deaths as 2/3 a person.
I'd also have the info discretely leaked so as not tp appear too crude.
It is war afterall, we must be sensitive.
In every conflict we are the good guys and everyone else are the bad guys. We are never wrong and if it looks like we are wrong then the events, or reports of the events, are manipulated or actually changed to fit the agenda. America is NEVER the bad guy, and it's been this way since the Spanish-American War and the takeover of the Phillipines.
This is a Malaysian civilian airplane shot down in a Ukrainian war zone with mostly Dutch passengers (maybe one American) and there is an ongoing fight between Israel and Hamas (who is surprised?). The MSM is engrossed. Why not report about 17+ trillion debt? Thousands of illegal children? High healthcare costs? 50+ million on food cards? How do we back away from the electronic abyss from EMP (Solar or nuclear)? On and on and on. It seems to me there are a lot of things more important.
Given that financial analysts have predicted WW3 - and that war is horrible for the economy - this IS an economic/financial issue.
Well, everything that could go wrong, did. Whether that was Fate or a deliberate action is the only question left in my mind. According to what I've read, a Russian Buk missile can reach as high as 42,000 feet at thirty miles downrange, so the distinction between 33K and 35K is minor.
Yesterday, I did not know that even Ukrainian officials had declared the area 'off limits' to commercial traffic. Some have posited that the flight was diverted due to inclement weather. I've only flown in the US domestically (as a passenger) but even on a hop from ATL to MSY you're at an altitude such that weather (at altitude) is not an issue. Weather is only an issue at/around takeoff landing sites, no? I'm asking. Not an aviation expert.
We know that both Ukraine and Russia have Buk systems- It has been reported that the rebels acquired a launcher, but not the guidance system. Also reported is that several (how big is several, anyway) Russian nationals have crossed over into Ukraine as volunteers to support the rebels. Who are they and what do they know how to do?
Sorry for the barrage of questions. It's likely they'll never be fully answered.
"According to what I've read, a Russian Buk missile can reach as high as 42,000 feet at thirty miles downrange"
Yup, but the radar on the Buk-M1 TELAR vehicle can't, or at least not reliably. The one on the later M1-2 can, but not the M1. To credibly engage high altitude targets, the M1 needs also to be networked with two other vehicles that have search and aquisition radars. Even Kiev haven't tried to say the 'rebels' have a complete set of the necessary vehicles.
Please note, I'm not saying it's a 100% impossible shot with only the M1 TELAR vehicle but nor is it a very likely one. It's onboard radar just isn't designed to achieve that unless slaved to a complete missile-battery network.
Ukraine Possessed the Type of Missile Which Shot Down Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-17
SO DOES RUSSIA
SO DOES RUSSIA
I know, and I said as much. Why are you hollerin' at me, dude? Pretty sure we're on the same team.
Sorry, bro ... didn't mean to holler. Just wrote that article, so was just trying to share.
I'm on team no-more-F@ck!ng-war-because-we're-already-F@ck!ng-broke.
This isn't going to lead to war. The ongoing financial disruptions (oil, dollar competition, financial WMDs, etc.) or possibly something in the Middle East may lead to war but only if we slip back into recession and people become desperate. Now the broader Ukrainian conflict could lead to war, but not the shoot down of this flight ... not by itself.
I'm on that team. That and the fact that what we are doing is immoral and criminal.
quote :" I'm on team no-more-F@ck!ng-war-because-we're-already-F@ck!ng-broke. "
I'm pretty sure you can say "fucking" on this site.
'Yes we can', Alfred. The continuing question is, should we?
People historically want to go to fucking war when they're fucking broke because they think they can acquire wealth from the ones they go to war against. Sometimes this even works for them -- Israel, for example.
War makes many people poor and dead. It makes a few people rich and powerful.
FeralSerf, shit! I wish I had thought of that handle! Anyway, listen up bro/sis, this paradigm is changing faster than we can imagine. IT'S ALL GOOD!
LOL! I'm on the team that US will continue provoking conflicts until it becomes obvious to all involved that the paper tiger has no teeth. Almost there.
Of course it was, just like TARP was accidently passed by Congress.
Spanish Air Controller @ Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Boeing MH#17 :
http://www.globalresearch.ca/s...
There was an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian MH17
flight which took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine
warzone.
The Spanish air controller confirms a conflict between the
Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of the Interior intimating that the
order concerning the downing of the aircraft came from the Ministry of
the Interior, which is dominated by Svoboda and Right Sector.
He also said that the MH17 flight was escorted by Ukrainian
fighter jets minutes before it was downed. It is worth noting that the
presence of the Ukraine fighter jets reported by the Spanish air traffic
controller was confirmed by eyewitness reports in the Donetsk region:
“eyewitnesses in the Donetsk region saw Ukrainian warplanes near the passenger jet. They say they heard sounds of powerful blasts and saw a Ukraine warplane shortly before the crash. (ITAR Tass)
(M.Ch. Global Research Editor)
UPDATE:
We are informed that the twitter account of the Spanish air
controller has been closed down. Following his statements, he and his
family have been threatened by the Kiev regime, including death threats.
He has been deported from Ukraine. He is a man of courage and determination committed to the truth.
[Sorry - dup]
Carlos (@spainbusa) was probably a radar air traffic controller who worked at a regional Air Control Center (Kiev-Borispol?). These centers are usually located in the lower levels of the airport's tower - Borispol in this case - but they don't control air traffic right at that airport. The guys at the top of the tower do that. ACC is all radar stuff for areas many km away. He tweeted in Spanish, but had to have been a Ukranian citizen to work there at all. No idea if he actually is Spanish. If he's merely Spanish-speaking, then he could easily have come from California or Texas...
His Twitter account is gone, but this is as close as I can find to an easy-to-trim version of his tweets that day. He had his Twitter account for a couple of years where he said he was an air traffic controller. He was known to tweet on many air traffic control subjects, so his account was most likely legit. Bits and pieces of his deleted account can be found on the Wayback machine (your welcome). Unfortunately, it only saves a page or two of anything from Twitter so you can't see everything he ever posted. It's also in Spanish, so you have to use a translator.
The following copied and trimmed down from the timeline in Marcel Sardo's blog
[My smart-ass comments added in bold italic]
CHRONOLOGY OF @spainbuca’s TWITTER FEED
10:21 “Kiev Authorities, trying to make looks like an attack by pro-Russian”
10:24 “warning! It can be a downing, Malaysia Airlines B777 in ukraine, 280 passengers”
10:25 “Warning! Kiev have what they wanted”
10:25 “[Miitary] has taken control of ATC in Kiev” [Kiev-Borispol also home to Ukraerocenter - a joint Civ/Mil operations coordination unit]
10:27 “The Malaysia Airlines B777 plane disappeared from the radar, there was no communication of any anomaly, confirmed”
10:30 “Plane shot down, shot down, shot down, no accident”
10:31 “Kiev have what they wanted, I said in the first tw [Tweets], Kiev is responsible @ ActualidadRT”
10:35 “An accident that is not quite normal, they are threatening us in the same tower of Kiev airport” [Not sure if he means Borispol and Kiev or just everyone in his (Broispol) tower - the radar controllers and the airport guys]
10:35 “they will take from our phones and others stuff at any moment” [Just like in the USSA!]
10:38 “Before They remove my phone or they break my head, shot down by Kiev”
11:12 “We have confirmation. Plane downed, Kiev authorities already have the information, downed, we are calm now”
11:13 “What are doing foreigners with kiev authorities in the tower? Gathering all the information” [Americans? Go team USA!]
11:15 “When possible I´ll keep writing”
11:48 The B777 plane flew escorted by Ukraine jet fighter until 2 minutes before disappearing from the radar,
11:54 “If kiev authorities want to tell the truth, It´s gathered, 2 jet fighters flew very close minutes before, wasn’t downed by a fighter”
12:00 “Malaysia Airlines B777 plane just disappeared and Kiev military authority informed us of the downing, How they knew?” [Mil told the controllers?]
12:00 “7:00 minutes after [plane dissapeared], the downing was notified, later our tower was taken with foreigner staff, they still here ” [Damn foreigners!]
12:01 “all this is gathered in radars, to the unbelieving, shot down by kiev, here we know it and military air traffic control also”
13:15 “Here the military commanders manage and support it could be military following other orders , but no, the pro-Russian” [= not the pro-Russian?]
13:29 “Interior Minister knew what the fighters were doing in the area, the defense minister didn’t.” [Interior Ministry = Ukranian Stazi, Defense = Army/AF]
13:31 “Military confirm It was Ukraine, but still does not know where the order came from” [Ukraine SAM, but some are Stazi and some Army/AF controlled]
13:36 “Days ago I said here, kiev military wanted to rise against the current president, this may be a way, ordered by timoshenko [following timishenko orders]” [Good God... musical oligarchs? Doesn't Ukraine deserve a normal, non-psychopath human being leader for once?]
13:38 “The fighters flew close to 777, up to 3 minutes before disappearing from the radar, just 3 minutes” [SA-11 would have been airborne and tracking by then]
13:43 “Airspace closed”
13:45 “Airspace is closed, more downings feared”
15:17 “military control now officially [say] the plane was shot down by missile” [Mil has separate controllers for their own planes]
15:23 “Government has the official report signed by the control military authorities in Kiev,,,, [plane] shot down”
15:26 “The report indicates where the missile had come out [from], and specified is not from the selfdefence in rebel areas” [a report we'll never see]
15:34 “Military radar collected data from missile fired to the plane, civilian radars didn’t” [Expected. Civ enroute radars don't look below maybe 2km]
15:36 “military high command did not gave the order to fire the missile, someone screw it ine the name of ukraine”
15:38 “For those who do not know, Let’s say, there are military under the orders of the defense minister and military under the orders of Interior Minister” [Mil vs. Interior Ministry Stazi, both have/command their own SAMs]
15:38 “The military under the orders of Interior Minister knew what happened all the time .” [Stazi knew, not Mil]
16:06 “Military commanders here (ATC) control tower, confirm that the missile is from the ukranian army,”
16:07 “military commanders that knew it and others didn´t ,”
16:08 “290 dead innocent people. What a useless war, where patriotism is bought with money” [Starving people always make good patriots]
16:09 “Thw way the control tower was taken minutes after & knowing all the details, made ??us think that they [made it]”
16:10 “The face of the soldiers who came later saying [what you just did], no chance for doubts”
16:12 “Such is the decline that military who came first accompanied by foreigners came to us asking us to tell their version” [WTF?]
16:13 “Our response was, these radars do not collect the launching of missiles, the military ones does, there were no doubts”
Guided to their Death? Maybe this Spanish Air Controller , upon leaving the area will tell the World the Truth?
That is unless a cover operative ensures he can't. Go to Equador friend, it's safer there.
Airliner's don't get shot down by accident just like airliner's don't crash into buildings when flown by borderline retarded Saudi's. KAL007 and TWA800 are stinky as a fishmonger's boots and the engineers and operators of SAM systems are infinitely more credible than the shitheads-that-be who consider 500,000 dead Iraqi children an acceptable collateral damage to prop up a petrodollar on its way down the shitter.
The emperor has no clothes
"...stinky as a fishmonger's boots..."
+1, and for the rest.
Let's see......sitting around with nothing to do except wait to get attacked? I could see someone getting an itchy finger you'd be on pins and needles 24/7.
George Washigton is warming up the ovens eh ?
Not your junk, but explain yourself. GW has always been straight-up with me.
GW has posted some interesting articles in the past but this one is such an obviously contrived attempt at damage control and misdirection that you have to wonder. You have to wonder a lot. If fact you have to question how easily you (I) accepted some of his past writings.
Welcome, Stumpy:
George, why are your replies suddenly appearing in hypertext? Many have been complaining, and claiming denial of service attacks lately. Me? I've been cruising along with no glitches. You and I have discussed this in the past, but I think it's entirely possible that ZeroHedge is a honey pot. Doesn't matter George, I know what you mean, and I mean what you know. Godspeed!
That is a screen grab posted as an image file.
You would know, Wm. No way I can deny that. The question remains tho, don't it? I'm gonna git my guitar. It will gently weep.