This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Was Malaysian Airlines MH-17 ACCIDENTALLY Shot Down Over Ukraine?
While it is too early to know who shot down Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17 over Ukraine yesterday - and while it could have been a false flag - it would be good to remember that airlines have accidentally been shot down numerous times in the past.
After all, the Malaysian airlines plane was way off course:
The plane flew over a war zone, which was well-known to be a “no fly zone” with “restricted airspace”.
The Los Angeles Times reports:
Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was cruising just 1,000 feet above restricted airspace when it was struck by a missile in Ukraine’s Donetsk region, according to aviation and intelligence officials.
Despite ongoing violence in eastern Ukraine, including the recent downing of two military aircraft, Ukrainian aviation officials had closed the region’s airspace only below 32,000 feet in altitude.
The Boeing 777, en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, the Malaysian capital, with 298 people aboard, was at 33,000 feet when it vanished from radar screens, according to European aviation authorities.
***
In recent days, though, military aircraft were downed by antiaircraft munitions, which should have concerned aviation authorities, he said.
Reuters notes:
Malaysia Airlines filed a flight plan requesting to fly at 35,000 feet throughout Ukraine airspace but was instructed by Ukraine air traffic control to fly at 33,000 feet upon entry ….
CBS writes in an article entitled “‘Big Question’ Is Why Plane Was Flying Over War Zone”:
During a phone interview with CBS News Thursday morning, Captain Capt. Chesley “Sully” Sullenberger was questioned why Malaysia Airlines flight 17 would be flying over Ukraine’s border with Russia despite ongoing political unrest in the area.
Sullenberger, the veteran of the 2009 Miracle on the Hudson landing, is an aviation expert for CBS News….
“That is one of the big questions right now,” said Sully. “The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration has barred U.S. Airlines from flying over this area for some time.”
The Atlantic points out:
Did aviation authorities know that this was a dangerous area?
Yes, they most certainly did. Nearly three months ago, on the “Special Rules” section of its site, the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration put out an order prohibiting American pilots, airlines, charter carriers, and everyone else over whom the FAA has direct jurisdiction, from flying over parts of Ukraine.
Bloomberg adds:
Qantas hasn’t used the route for a few months, said Andrew McGinnes, a spokesman for the Australian carrier, while Hong Kong-based Cathay Pacific said it has been detouring for “quite some time.” Korean Air Lines Co. and Asiana Airlines Inc. said in statements they have been avoiding the area since March 3.
This is not the first time such an incident has occurred …
Numerous Previous Accidental Shootdowns ... By Russia, Ukraine, and Other Countries
In 1954, mainland China's Army shot down a Cathay Pacific Airways airplane, killing 10 out of the 19 passengers. Cathay Pacific was the airline of Hong Kong, then under British control). In apologizing for the attack to Britain, the Chinese government said that they had thought the plane was a military aircraft from the Taiwan on an attack mission.
In 1973, a Libyan Arab Airlines Boeing 727 flying from Tripoli to Cairo got lost and flew over the Sinai peninsula, under Israeli control since the Six-Day War in 1967. After giving signals to land and firing warning shots, Israeli jets shot down the plane, killing 108 of the 113 people on board. The chief of staff of the Israeli armed forces took responsibility for ordering the shoot-down, the Defense Minister called the event an "error of judgment", and the Israeli government compensated the families of victims (Libya condemned the attack as "a criminal act" while the Soviets called it a "monstrous new crime").
In 1983, a Korean airlines passenger airline was shot down by a Soviet pilot killing all 269 passengers. The pilot had accidentally deviated from the normal flight path:
A simplified CIA map showing divergence of planned and actual flight paths.
The Soviets believed it was likely a military aircraft. Transcripts quote the shootdown order from Soviet General Kornukov:
What civilian? [It] has flown over Kamchatka! It [came] from the ocean without identification. I am giving the order to attack if it crosses the State border.
The Washington Post reported in 1988:
A U.S. warship fighting gunboats in the Persian Gulf yesterday mistook an Iranian civilian jetliner for an attacking Iranian F14 fighter plane and blew it out of the hazy sky with a heat-seeking missile, the Pentagon announced. Iran said 290 persons were aboard the European-made A300 Airbus and that all had perished.
“The U.S. government deeply regrets this incident,” Adm. William J. Crowe Jr., chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told a Pentagon news conference.
***
Navy officials said the Vincennes’ combat teams believed the airliner to be an Iranian F14 jet fighter.
Ukraine admitted to accidentally shooting down a Russian airliner in 2001, killing all 78 on board as the aircraft plunged into the Black Sea:
Ukraine finally admitted yesterday that its military shot down a Russian airliner that crashed into the Black Sea last week, killing all 78 passengers and crew.
Evhen Marchuk, the chairman of Ukraine’s security council, conceded that the plane had probably been brought down by “an accidental hit from an S-200 rocket fired during exercises”.
And – according to several government investigators tasked with determining what happened – an American missile test which went astray may have accidentally brought down TWA 800, killing all 230 on board.
»
- advertisements -
But now I see what you are talking about below. Hypertexted replies, hmmm...saves space ;-)
Wow, George Washington has a lot invested in this article and is expending a lot of captal or attention to shield it. This really confirms to me that there is more to his contrived article than just some journalistic claptrap ramblings for the sake of presenting a wild contrarian viewpoint.
The purpose or better "for whom" he has posted it is a question that needs to be asked. Someone has not only pinched his butt to write it but has reminded him now is the time to perform his purpose and to expend a lot of that credibility he has built up.
Interesting and surprising. Someone is quite concerned about the outcome of the intentional downing of this plane and the surrounding propoganda. This should tell you that there is more risk in some way to them than there was on MH370 and someone is worried this will blow up in their face OR something is planned within the next few weeks and they want to distract from information being presented by articles seeking to root out the actual events. I think that information being shared on this website is causing them not only irritation but concern and this article by GW is meant to counter it.
This is a happening to stay in tune to and keep the eyes open for whatever may unfold in the next two weeks.
By the way, has anyone seen Francis Sawyer, Bank Guy from Brussels and a few others?
No, GW is pointing out that we don't have enough evidence to point to who shot it down, and that it could very well have been a giant fuckup. Flying over a war zone is a really dumb idea because you never know who is going to start taking shots at you, nor even why. Yes, false flag is a very, very real possibility given the totality of the circumstances, but with all of the propaganda whizzing around, we'll probably NEVER be privy to the true facts of what happened. We know that nazis use false flag tactics, and we know that the US uses them, but we also know that people in war zones have itchy trigger fingers. All sides are going into this with the "never let a serious crisis go to waste" mentality. Just remember the old cliche that the first casualty of war is the truth, and don't believe anything without evidence.
Mostly I agree with you, but do know Kilgore Trout? We can bitch and moan all we want, but the battle will eventually go hot, in your neighborhood. Be prepared to fight or lay low.
'the fuck are are you? Some kind of troll?
The CIA/Mossad/Tribe trolls have been attacking this site with a vengence lately. Trying to destroy the credibility of the site and the articles it presents. As if they can scream and holler and insult those who comment into submission or into agreeing with them. Or maybe just throwing enough shit against the wall, and reducing the level of the discussion to a cafeteria food fight, so that everyone gets frustrated and goes somewhere else. It won't work. The people who frequent this site are interested in one thing: facts and the truth.
I won't even resort to blaming agencies, tho i know they exist. They're fkn useless Gadfly. They have no force. The only power they have is that which we supply, and that is waning rapidly.
Yes, it is them those peski Russians again!
We also all watched youtube video released by Kiev how Kiev intercepted all of guerillas communications and how guerillas downed the plane.
Intercepted and put in one nice video, one just day before plane crashed!
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2014/07/evidence-continues-to-emerge-mh17-is.html
Whoever "done it", let's just hope it was a tragic accident. I just don't believe the Rooskies or the Ukes would shoot down a commercial aircraft with malice of forethought. It's all fucked up, though, no doubt.
The Ukrainians shot down a plane during an exercise on its way to Tel Aviv about 10 years ago...not that it's relevant here, but shit like this does happen.
CIA PSYOPS dreamed this one up, kids. Disinformation campaigns are their stock and trade. If anyone thinks the CIA did not do this they are naive and should not be on Z/H IMHO. Moreover, PSYOPS are working the threads at Z/H as we write. Take a look at the responses to anyone critical of the American Government propaganda being espoused here and elsewhere. Take a good critical look at the downarrowing as well. PSYOPS
are cheaper than clusterbombs and fighter jets IMHO.
Yeah but the MIC spends, spends, spends. They are not known for doing things on the cheap.
This entire article by George Washington reeks of PSYOPS and disinformation.
"...entire article...?" Even quoting the pilot of "Miracle on the Hudson? You are clearly a troll, dumber than rocks, or both.
If you expect anyone to take you seriously here, epic fail.
Why don't you quote GW and reply with reasons supporting opposing conclusion?
The pure evil sick Psycopathic Criminal CIA literally need to be hunted down like the dogs that they are & be literally burned down to the ground.
I think the phrase is "...splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it into the winds" -JFK
And we saw the result.
Congressman Larry McDonald was on flight KAL007. The link below is from Crossfire from May 1983. He was talking about the NWO before just about anyone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BPhYEFGaGM
Dumb luck that?
Also see what Zio-Satanist Micheal Chertoff did to OH Congressman Trafficant after Trafficant spoke out loudly and repeatedly against Israhell and its position as 4th Branch of the government.
I remember some of the articles written at the time. They almost forgot to mention him. He was an anti-Communist. What Gingrich only pretended to be. I've always thought the Soviets did it to try to intimidate Reagan. They were possibly hoping to get Helms, too. Another anti-Communist.
Holy Crap dude!! Get that twitching fore finger looked at!!!
I remember some of the articles written at the time. They almost forgot to mention him. He was an anti-Communist. What Gingrich only pretended to be. I've always thought the Soviets did it to try to intimidate Reagan. They were possibly hoping to get Helms, too. Another anti-Communist.
I remember some of the articles written at the time. They almost forgot to mention him. He was an avid anti-Communist. What Gingrich only pretended to be. I've always thought the Soviets did it to try to intimidate Reagan. They were possibly hoping the get Helms, too. Another avid anti-Communist.
I remember some of the articles written at the time. They almost forgot to mention him. He was an avid anti-Communist. What Gingrich only pretended to be. I've always thought the Soviets did it to try to intimidate Reagan. They were possibly hoping the get Helms, too. Another avid anti-Communist.
I remember some of the articles written at the time. They almost forgot to mention him. He was an avid anti-Communist. What Gingrich only pretended to be. I've always thought the Soviets did it to try to intimidate Reagan. They were possibly hoping the get Helms, too. Another avid anti-Communist.
I remember some of the articles written at the time. They almost forgot to mention him. He was an avid anti-Communist. What Gingrich only pretended to be. I've always thought the Soviets did it to try to intimidate Reagan. They were possibly hoping the get Helms, too. Another avid anti-Communist.
I remember some of the articles written at the time. They almost forgot to mention him. He was an avid anti-Communist. What Gingrich only pretended to be. I've always thought the Soviets did it to try to intimidate Reagan. They were possibly hoping the get Helms, too. Another avid anti-Communist.
I remember some of the articles written at the time. They almost forgot to mention him. He was an avid anti-Communist. What Gingrich only pretended to be. I've always thought the Soviets did it to try to intimidate Reagan. They were possibly hoping the get Helms, too. Another avid anti-Communist.
Thanks for the link. He was a voice crying in the wilderness. I think he would enjoy ZH.
I've only heard about him in the last day but who really cares about a Congressman who's critical of the current system. I can go to any black congressional district and probably find the same talk.
Those black congressional districts will certainly have plenty of communist talk but not admit their persuasion publicly. Congressman McDonald was calling out the communist conspiracy by name. He would be calling out Psaki, Kerry, Nuland, and your buddy Barry, etc right now if he hadn't been captured and/or killed.
Perhaps the best analogy to MH-17 is the USS Liberty.......
YouTube rumors state Putin's plane took that route 45 minutes earlier. Don't know if it's true or false.
Planes crossed path over Poland, with over an hour apart from each other.
I never understood all the talk over the last day about this. Somebody fucked up. I don't know whether Ukraine governement or rebels shot it down. One of them did but I believe whoever did it wasn't intending to take down a civilian airliner.
The airline screwed up. It's not a good idea to fly over a war zone.
>> The airline screwed up. It's not a good idea to fly over a war zone.
The pilot of MH17 radioed that he 'felt uncomfortable' about the route he was flying while over Ukraine and tragically altered his course to hostile territory, where Russian separatist missile operators mistook his plane for a government military transport aircraft, according to an expert.
Dr Igor Sutyagin, Research Fellow in Russian Studies from the Royal United Services Institute, believes that MH17 was shot down by rebels based in the 3rd District of Torez, in eastern Ukraine, using a ground-to-air SA11 missile system .
He told MailOnline that information had been leaked from a source he was unwilling to name that the pilot of MH17 'felt bad' about his course over Ukrainian airspace, so turned south.
Little did he know, according to Dr Sutyagin, that his plane would then be mistaken by rebels for a Ukrainian government resupply flight.
He said: 'There is a Ukrainian mechanized brigade blocked by separatists near the Russian boarder. It's blocked on three sides by separatists and behind the brigade is the Russian boarder, so they can't get out. The Ukrainians try to resupply them from the air by transport aircraft.
'Now, the pilot of MH17 said that he "felt bad" and wanted to change course to get out of the danger zone. But several kilometers to the south is a Ukrainian Army heavy transport plane, an IL76, or Candid, which has the same echo as a 777 on a radar screen.
'The two planes came close. They tried to shoot down the transport delivering supplies to the brigade. They believed that they had been firing at a military plane, but they mistakenly shoot down a civilian airliner.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696847/They-shouldnt-f-g-flying...
How about the seperatists or Ruskies wouldn't expect to see a commercial plane over the war zone since it has been basically avoided for months.I doubt they wanted to down a civilian airplane. Who does that help?
Actually he was too far north of the usual route. Nice try!
So, pilot error. Sad.
Air traffic control personnel watched it from the first row.
Spanish Air Controller @ Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Boeing #MH17
America did it to make pooty look like a war monger. Just wanted to be first out of the box to put blame where it belongs.
sarc
Russia has nothing to gain by deliberately shooting down a dutch commercial airliner. They may have thought it was a Ukrainian military transport. They never thought a commercial pilot would be so stupid to fly thru a hot war zone.
I don't understand why ZH is trying so hard to defend Russia here. Generally not their MO to be part of a cover-up.
ZH getting hammered by someone, hiccup.
Dupe, repetitive site crashes.
Because neither Russia nor the Separatists had anything to gain from this.
The plane was also at an altitude not reachable by shoulder fired missiles.
It had to be a big rig that would not be easy to get into Ukraine from Russia nor to hide.
All the success of the Kiev military campaign against those fighting for independence, and now this?
More likely it was a trigger happy member of the neo-Nazi putsch who made a mistake, or they intentionally shot it down to try and pin it on the Separatists and Russia.
Since June, a total of four Ukrainian government aircraft were shot down from low altitudes by rebels using short ranged rockets. The Malaysian airliner must have been shot down by a more sophisticated, long range weapon. The chances are that it was the Ukrainian government anti-aircraft system that was operating that day and by accident or design did the deed. They shot down a Russian airliner by mistake in 2001. The only other credible theory is that the rebels had captured a missile system and its targeting radar and happened to have among them personnel able to operate both and mistook the airliner for a Ukrainian transport (which, given its flightpath, seems unlikely). The more likely culprits are the Ukrainians, but we shall see.
H/T: antiwar.com
"One theory explored by TV and newspapers was that the Ukrainian armed forces may have shot the Boeing out of the sky after mistaking it for Vladimir Putin's official Ilyushin jet."
"The Kremlin leader was flying back to Moscow from Brazil at around the same time that the Boeing 777 was downed, stated TV and newspaper reports."
"Evidence for the theory seems scant, but an anonymous source in Russia's Federal Agency for Air Transportation was quoted saying that there was a crossover flight path between the doomed Malaysian aircraft and Russian plane 'number one' used by Putin."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696975/Putin-blames-Ukraine-los...
Didn't Putin call O'bama from his aircraft just before the shootdown?
What about the two military jets that were reported to be 'escorting' MH17 just before the shootdown.
After firing, a BUK missle is reported to have a significant and persistent smoke trail but this has not been reportedly seen by anyone, but within a few minutes of the incident the BUK was fingered as the kill weapon.
Many more questions and no believable answers (yet).
Cui bono seems obvious.