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Putin Makes First Official Statement; Russia To Cut IBM, Microsoft Dependence: Complete Ukraine Situation Summary

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Your one stop to catch up on all the latest development surrounding the crash of flight MH17 and the recovery effort. Courtesy of Bloomberg.

POLITICS:

  • Putin says plane crash shouldn’t be used for political gain
  • Says Russia will do all it can to end east Ukraine clashes
  • German Chancellor Merkel, Russian President Putin discussed ICAO’s role in MH17 crash investigation; need for talks
  • U.S. Secretary of State Kerry, Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov agree on impartial investigation of MH17 crash
  • Kerry says circumstantial evidence points to Russian-supplied missile attack on MH17.
  • Turkish PM Erdogan believes Russia shot down MH17: Hurriyet

WHAT TO WATCH:

  • Russia seeks to cut dependence on IBM, Microsoft amid sanctions
  • Poroshenko Orders Truce Within 20 Km of Crash Site: IFX
  • East Ukraine separatist Borodai says train with MH17 bodies hasn’t left area; rebels seek “objective” investigation
  • U.K. said to seek ban on EU defense goods export to Russia
  • Looking at sanctions options, incl. energy: PM’s office
  • Dutch PM Rutte says economic, political, financial measures on table in response to limited access to MH17 crash site
  • Russians divided over their country’s role in Ukraine: poll
  • Separatists fired at OSCE crash investigators: ABC News
  • OSCE team not getting access needed to do job: Swiss ambassador

MARKETS:

  • Yield on 10-yr ruble bonds up 9bps to 8.98%
  • Ruble appreciates 0.1% vs euro-dollar basket; strengthens second day
  • Micex -1.5% to 1,401.08, falling for 6th day
  • Hryvnia depreciates 0.3% to 11.67 per dollar
  • Brent crude falls 0.3% to $107.20/bbl; WTI down 0.2% to $102.91/bbl
  • Gold rises 0.2% to $1,313.41/oz
  • SXXP falls 0.4%

 

Here is Putin's speech from yesterday

And a transcript:

In connection with the terrible tragic events that happened in the skies over Donetsk, I would like to explain once again Russian attitude to events that are taking place in Ukraine.

We have repeatedly called on all parties of the conflict to immediately stop the bloodshed and sit down at the negotiating table. We strongly believe that if military action in the East of Ukraine was not renewed on the 28th of June, this tragedy most likely wouldn’t have happened. However, no one should have the right to use this tragedy to pursue egoistic political aims. Such events should unite and not divide people. It is necessary that all the people who are accounted for the situation in the region took more responsibility and reported to their own people and to the peoples of those countries whose representatives have become victims of this disaster.

Everything must be done to ensure the safety of international experts on the crash scene. Today representatives of Donbass, Donetsk, representatives of Ministry of Emergency Situations of Ukraine and Malaysian experts are already working there.  But this is not enough. It is necessary to ensure that at the crash site works a full team of experts under the auspices of ICAO, the corresponding international commission. We must do everything to provide them with full and absolute security and all humanitarian corridors necessary for their operation.

In its turn, Russia will do everything possible to transfer the conflict in Eastern Ukraine from today's military phase to a discussion at the negotiating table, using exclusively peaceful and diplomatic means.

 

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Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:18 | 4982789 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

I'm gonna be the first on my block to run WindowsUSSR.

 

Why give anymore money to Bill Gates when all he does with it is Common Core commie education crap?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:22 | 4982811 PartysOver
PartysOver's picture

Guess the Ruskies got tired of the Blue Screen Of Death.  I wonder if they can come up with a no crash OS with no backdoor for the NSA.

Hmmm....  I might have to buy something Russian if they do,

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:26 | 4982820 jaap
jaap's picture

Listened this evening to todays no agenda show and heared for the first time some convincing analyses about the shooting. Yes, I now believe a rocket has been shot. It is all related to this document by the German Traffic and Broadcasting department:

http://adam.curry.com/enc/20140720012844_1801925hunkolinke.pdf

Since the beginning of June this has been going on and it makes it possible for fighter jets to spoof military registration indicators on commercial airliners. It also explains the news that started that time that airliners disappeared from radar (remember http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/austria/10898385/13-planes-vanish-from-radars-over-Europe.htm   ).

This part of the analyses starts at 1h and 10 minutes in the show: NoAgendaShow.com

btw, worth listening to the whole thing ofcourse

 

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:34 | 4982847 Arius
Arius's picture

Bring back the DUO:

Kerry and Lavrov

remove the big dogs with big egos ...

only these two guys with their deep professionalism and dedication are able to find a common language and trade some horses in the process ... both are pros!!!

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:48 | 4982897 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

only these two guys with their deep professionalism and dedication are able to find a common language and trade some horses in the process ... both are pros!!!

Arius

You forgot the /sarc tag on the 50% of what you just said!

If you're speaking in those endearing terms about the U.S. Secretary of State you must have been high as a kite while you were writing that playing an lp of Iron Butterfly while watching a historical documentary of a much younger Kerry delivering his famous speech in Washington before Congress as a "Winter soldier" about the urgent need to get out of Vietnam!

With where this Country is headed I might join you as I don't believe we have the same number of underground bunkers that Russia has!

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:20 | 4983008 fleur de lis
fleur de lis's picture

This country has underground tunnels but they're not for us--they're for the DC psychos who start all the trouble.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:54 | 4983143 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

fdl

Actually you are correct on that assertion.

My bad!

But then again.  What difference does it make when the Russians will attempt to protect the "99%", while ours will protect the "1%"!

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:29 | 4983020 fleur de lis
fleur de lis's picture

T

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:48 | 4983118 J S Bach
J S Bach's picture

Hopefully, Russia will be switching over to Macs.  Smart move.  Buy AAPL now.

Mac's "Maverick" OS would be an apt compliment to Putin's governing style.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 11:24 | 4983643 the tower
the tower's picture

Ermmm... Russia (government agencies and state-run enterprises) wants to be independent from foreign technology, so the LAST thing they will do is buy Macs.

Any open source LINUX flavor will do.

Dump AAPL now, consumer electronics are rapidly becoming commodities.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 14:32 | 4984618 Dead Canary
Dead Canary's picture

Now you're talkin. LINUX RULES!

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:50 | 4982900 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Just waiting on Kerry to put his hoof in his mouth again, letting

Putin take control of the situation ,just like Syria.

With his form, its only a matter of time.

Hey ho Kerry.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:19 | 4983002 Gazooks
Gazooks's picture

"Putin says plane crash shouldn’t be used for political gain"

 

Ha! Putin once again shows how unAmerican he actually is, ..oh, ...wait.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:27 | 4983030 astoriajoe
astoriajoe's picture

MDB, is that you?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:35 | 4982854 chunga
chunga's picture

Imagine the dirty tricks one could do with the capability of making commercial planes look like military planes and vice versa. wow

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:43 | 4982880 _ConanTheLibert...
_ConanTheLibertarian_'s picture

Cool. The Adam 'Madonna' Curry. I'll have a look at his blog.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:53 | 4982912 rainingFrogs
rainingFrogs's picture

good find.  this is a very plausible scenario

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:50 | 4983111 ThirteenthFloor
ThirteenthFloor's picture

Looks like usint sat images showing Ukraine troops (or those dressed in Ukraine uniforms) fired the missile.  Interesting large amount of beer bottles on the ground next to the equipment and troops.  I hope the whistleblower has a good life insurance policy.

http://www.infowars.com/whistleblower-u-s-satellite-images-show-ukrainia...

 

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:56 | 4983459 TeethVillage88s
TeethVillage88s's picture

jaap posted this link above. It offers a fresh perspective.

"This part of the analyses starts at 1h and 10 minutes in the show: NoAgendaShow.com http://mp3s.nashownotes.com/NA-636-2014-07-20-Final.mp3

btw, worth listening to the whole thing of course"

My take the Malaysian Jet shoot down was possibly from the Corporate Play Book for "LebensRaum" with many parts played by the US Warmongers like Hillery, Peter King, John McCain.

US Corporate Lebensraum for Oil & Gas Expansion, but Royal Dutch Shell has a lot in the Game. And of course the Royals themselves.

Interesting that UK, France, USA, Russian knew the war script would include commercial jet shoot down and so kept their airlines out of the war-zone or corridor.

I actually didn't finish the MP3, so he probably has different conclusions later on.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 11:26 | 4983663 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

This would also jive with information coming from people in the Eastern Ukraine about Ukrainian fighter jets shadowing commercial airliners to get close enough to targets to initiate bombing runs.

 

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:49 | 4982901 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

"No back door to NSA, comrades! Back door only to KGB. We will not sell your data."

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:20 | 4982953 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

I do not care about the KGB.

 

At least they are not taking nude pictures of your children and passing those along to one another. They have some morality, at least.

 

Our Pentagon is a bunch of Pedophiles. You can see that here...

 

http://deadlinelive.info/2013/01/22/why-was-pentagon-child-pornography-investigation-halted/

 

and...

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/23/pentagon-child-porn-scand_n_656839.html

 

Furthermore our Soldiers were child rapists in Iraq...Here is one admitting it. Fast forward to the 2 Minute mark

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=607pyA_TTck

 

And then you can look at George Washington's article...

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/snowden-nsa-employees-routinely-pass-around-nude-photos-obtained-mass-surveillance

 

Now add it up...The NSA is the Pentagon Spy Agency...er...the Pedophile Spy Agency.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:13 | 4982973 lucyvp
lucyvp's picture

yes but if your livelhood is in the u.s. better to have that known by kgb, than your own gvt.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:10 | 4982963 ThirteenthFloor
ThirteenthFloor's picture

Timed with Microsoft's layoff of 18K.   Short term gain for Apple HW running Linux.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:23 | 4982816 hyperfocus
hyperfocus's picture

Pubuntu

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:36 | 4982861 BorisTheBlade
BorisTheBlade's picture

Rubuntu

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:48 | 4982895 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

"Red Hat."

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:56 | 4982915 CH1
CH1's picture

Mint.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:39 | 4982857 flapdoodle
flapdoodle's picture

Oh noes! Russia giving up Windows will only up the effectiveness of their cool and nasty weapon development programs and make them even more dangerous and make Putin even more likely to personally shoot down unarmed civilians and tear out the hearts of innocent babies and grandmothers! Save us Obama, you're our only hope!

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:12 | 4982939 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

"Why give anymore money to Bill Gates when all he does with it is Common Core commie education crap."

Common Core is far more insidious than anything Putin is up to.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:54 | 4983141 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Resistance is beginning to grow, and it crosses partisan lines.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 13:25 | 4984313 mkhs
mkhs's picture

Well, as long as there is a consensus.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:16 | 4982984 lucyvp
lucyvp's picture

maybe the ruskies are too smart for windows, and will go back to thinking persons o.s.not the disneyland of spinning glyphs and undocumented "features".  maybe a stable os. would not require "replacment" every 4 years or whenever Bill needs a new yacht.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:17 | 4982790 jubber
jubber's picture

That's what a Statesman speech should be, whether Russia is implcated or not, but not the crap coming out of  the Uk & US

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:20 | 4982800 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

UK is run by school kids. They are the upmarket version of the yobs in Magaluf.

Once Britain had men of stature but they have left the political scene which is now simply a playground for half-wits with motor-mouths

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:26 | 4982828 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

Same in USA!

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:40 | 4982872 Arius
Arius's picture

Makes one think Scotts might know something after all ... hhhmmmmm

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 15:25 | 4984839 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

#Dipshits

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:44 | 4982858 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I presume your statement does not apply to EU politics, where UK politicians shine bathed in the light of reason and statemanship /s

no, it's not that OT. Italy proposed a new EU "Foreign Minister" for the EU Commission, and all the UK newspapers I'm reading are joining the chorus of the Balts and Poles in saying that she is too friendly towards Russia. (Thank you Mr. Cameron for this infusion of antagonistic politics/s)

having said that, Putin is really saying the most reasonable things:

"Everything must be done to ensure the safety of international experts on the crash scene. Today representatives of Donbass, Donetsk, representatives of Ministry of Emergency Situations of Ukraine and Malaysian experts are already working there.  But this is not enough. It is necessary to ensure that at the crash site works a full team of experts under the auspices of ICAO, the corresponding international commission. We must do everything to provide them with full and absolute security and all humanitarian corridors necessary for their operation.

In its turn, Russia will do everything possible to transfer the conflict in Eastern Ukraine from today's military phase to a discussion at the negotiating table, using exclusively peaceful and diplomatic means."

just make sure you hold your promises, Vladimir Vladimirovich. your choice of ICAO instead of OSCE is NOT a good sign

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:44 | 4982883 Arius
Arius's picture

"I presume your statement does not apply to EU politics, where UK politicians shine bathed in the light of reason and statemanship /s"a

I hope to be wrong but my hunch and it is only a hunch is that Scotts will NOT agree with your statement

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:52 | 4982909 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

you know what /s means, do you? I presume you did not see it

as for the Scots (not Scotts and not Scotch), you hunch is correct. in fact, should they do the unlikely and vote for independence... watch them getting back on board of the EU while England exits... all the way hindering Scotland to re-enter, also because of some backroom deals they have with Spain on the matter

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:22 | 4983012 Arius
Arius's picture

forgive me, but i do not think it is that unlikely .... and as for the future, i wouldnt bet on just a simple "getting right back on board with England", reason being why start it in the first place if that was the case?

yeah, i know unexpected ... but so was this malaysian airliner ... a lot of unexpected things, which make the remaining things more expected... you dig???  not so special after all ...

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:32 | 4983058 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Arius, you are forgiven if you forgive me a further correction. I wrote "watch them getting back on board of the EU while England exits". yes. unlikely. the future, imho, is probabilistic

for example: imho it is unlikely that the USD will hyperinflate. the chance for it is 5%. unlikely is not impossible

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:50 | 4982903 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Promises? He wants Europe dead. He couldn't even express his condolences...yet again...to the civilians his missile slaughtered.

This is he game changer...to Putin and his cronies that Boeing 777 represents all that is wrong with the world. And in his KGB mindset "those passengers were just collateral damage."

Talk about a throwback to an Age long since gone. Windows and IBM? This guy is stuck in 1981.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:58 | 4982923 CH1
CH1's picture

the civilians his missile slaughtered.

And you know this how?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:59 | 4982928 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Putin does not want Europe dead. we are behind the days of total annihilation. just unconscious, divided, and not US-led

yes, he is a near-fascist, conservative bully leader... with nearly all his nation behind him in a cultural/national conflict involving the Russian Diaspora in the remnants of the old empire. this is both a very old and very new 

the throwbacks to 1981, though... they are in Washington, DC, London and sadly also in Warsaw, imho. toghether with all those who still use the USSR label, a good giveaway

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 15:05 | 4984774 SF beatnik
SF beatnik's picture

According to Dr. Paul Craig Roberts, the neocons around Reagan wanted him to launch a preememptive nuclear strike against Russsia, Bucky Turgidson style. "Catch em with their pants down."  Reagan said, no no no no no... we don't want to attack Russia. 

These neocons are still present in Washington, whispering in Obama's gullible ear.

See Roberts on youtube. 

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:07 | 4982958 rainingFrogs
rainingFrogs's picture

shill

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:17 | 4982987 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Putin doesn't want Europe dead. Europe is the meat in a giant bitch sandwich, in which both Barry and Vlad are sick of crossing swords and are now openly fighting to turn it into a monogamous one-on-one thing with Europe.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:26 | 4983028 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

gross sexual reference. but yes, apt. we are, after all, a partner in many ways. the Eagle's BFF and the Bear's best customer. "1984"?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:48 | 4983116 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

I got's me a diploma from the Sam Kinison and Lenny Bruce school of foreign policy. We can't all be articulate Europeans.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:28 | 4983038 flapdoodle
flapdoodle's picture

Perhaps you should change your moniker to "mentally disabledvet" ??

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 11:22 | 4983634 basho
basho's picture

your mindless blather "represents all that is wrong with the world"

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:57 | 4982921 albanian
albanian's picture

Ghordius you must be a big f...ng exspert on Euorpe? PROPAGANDA SHILL 

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:06 | 4982938 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

just live here. even visited a few times the countries behind the Iron Curtain, then. Including Albania, both before and after. your argument is...?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:57 | 4983152 albanian
albanian's picture

I have ben reading your comments and I live in euorope too.Behind the curtians are the same pepople ho rule in Europe and in the US.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:33 | 4983336 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

wish it was so. and... since when do you think it is so? the Middle Ages? 1815? 1919? 1946?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 11:48 | 4983781 piratepiet
piratepiet's picture

really Ghordius, USA in the Middle Ages ?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 16:36 | 4985119 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

The Old World Order finding new colonies? Why not? We are talking of sinister conspiracies, aren't we?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:22 | 4982809 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

Since July of 2013 when the American government was allowed to take a more active role in creating news programs both government accountability and the role of free media has been diminished.  As of July 2, 2013 a taboo came silently to an end with the implementation of a new law passed in January.

For decades a so-called anti-propaganda law prevented the U.S. government's mammoth broadcasting arm from delivering programming to American audiences. The new law unleashes thousands of hours per week of government-funded radio and TV programs for domestic U.S. consumption. This was criticized by many human rights activist as a green light for U.S. domestic propaganda efforts and in my opinion it is already being felt. More on this subject in the article below. 

 http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2014/07/when-propaganda-and-surveillance....

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:18 | 4982794 timeless21
timeless21's picture
  • Turkish PM Erdogan believes Russia shot down MH17: Hurriyet - what he's doing here
Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:22 | 4982808 pot_and_kettle
pot_and_kettle's picture

He's reading off a script. *golfclap*

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:25 | 4983022 old naughty
old naughty's picture

another teleprompter?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:33 | 4982850 Kina
Kina's picture

Turkish PM Erdogan

Ha...he was the guy caught on tape admitting that Turkey used false flag attacks (killings) in Syria and wanted to do  more....ie Erogan is a murderer.

 

And WTF would he know....nothing of course, paying his dues by socking US cock so he can keep his job in Turkey..

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:47 | 4982889 thestarl
thestarl's picture

Also after the Turkish coalmine disaster Erdogan was quoted as saying that it comes within the territory of working at a mine site.What a complete prick.

 

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:31 | 4983316 Iwanttoknow
Iwanttoknow's picture

Dear friends,

Slight correction.Erdogan is a Donmeh prick.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:31 | 4983317 Iwanttoknow
Iwanttoknow's picture

Double post.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:21 | 4983011 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

He is also the full blown NATO member who is currently in negotiations to become a full blown member of Vlad's Trade Union. You've got to admire the guy's "flexibility"...

(He also that love/hate, kind of gay relationship with Bibi, which he doesn't like to talk about)

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:28 | 4983039 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

which could bite back, particularly since Erdogan's party is the wannabee hidden hegemon of all Turkic tribes, the sometimes troublemakers in Vlad's EurAsia

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:46 | 4983107 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Ghordius, Erdogan isn't Turkic - he is Georgian

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:50 | 4983126 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

did not know that, thanks. so I'm even happier I wrote his party

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:19 | 4982795 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Dudes were a bunch of Ukranian drunks that fired the missle.

The source said CIA analysts were still not ruling out the possibility that the troops were actually eastern Ukrainian rebels in similar uniforms but the initial assessment was that the troops were Ukrainian soldiers. There also was the suggestion that the soldiers involved were undisciplined and possibly drunk, since the imagery showed what looked like beer bottles scattered around the site, the source said.

That's from InfoWars.com

But Putin's not that smart either if he was still using Microsoft. Wouldn't be supprised if the missle launcher was found to be running it.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:59 | 4982931 CH1
CH1's picture

The source said CIA analysts were...

Probably watching porn.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:24 | 4983021 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Your children undressing from images taken from their Smartphones...

 

Don't worry. You want your children safe, right?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:20 | 4982797 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

 The area where the Malaysian passenger jet MH17 fell in Ukraine is a crash site not a crime site! Painting it as a crime site does not make it so. Whether shot down by accident or intentionally, most of the evidence on how and why this occurred will most likely come from sources other than where the flight went down.

I for one feel total disgust and seriously distressed that this tragedy has become nothing more than a propaganda gem. More on this topic in the article below.

 http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2014/07/ukraine-crash-propaganda-gem.html

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:21 | 4982807 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Shooting down a plane in a war zone is a "crime". So when will Israel be brought to account for shelling civilians with flechettes ?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:29 | 4982825 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

Whether shot down by accident or intentionally, most of the evidence on how and why this occurred will most likely come from sources other than where the flight went down.

Taking care of the bodies of the victims might be placed as a priority over some bull shit political theater!

 

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:33 | 4982848 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I have no doubt they were drunk when they shot it down. I have no doubt they (both sides) are drunk 85% of the time. So maybe they had to sober up to carry around the bodies. You try living a shitty existence in those hills where there is probably zero enjoyment in your life other than when you are trashed. Then you end up with a whole shitload of advanced weapons. Then a commercial plane is dumb enough to fly over your war zone miserable existence. Sometimes it's just that simple.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:36 | 4982862 Kina
Kina's picture

OK so did we have blackwater mercanries with Ukraine's BUKS shooting this thing down, on schedule once the plane was diverted. Wouldn't be the first time the US has done this sort of thing.

 

At this stage anything is possible. ONE thing is sure...neither Russia or Ukrain would be stupid enough to deliberatelly shoot down a commercial airliner....however Ukraine and US would gain from such an act if it could be blamed on the enemy.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:50 | 4982898 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

You speak of Russia and Ukraine as countries. Of course they would not be stupid enough to want to do this. Now minimize this down to small groups of guys living in hills all day every day. Not much else to do but sit around. Not many chicks around. Not much stimulus other than stashes of booze and advanced weaponry. Shit happens.

Could it have been some blackwater op? I guess. Can't rule it out.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 16:35 | 4985111 layman_please
layman_please's picture

Blackwater, ex-US military guys, have any knowledge how to operate russian BUK? They can't even read cyrillic.

Your 'shit happens' version, on the other hand, is much more likely.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:31 | 4983050 Government need...
Government needs you to pay taxes's picture

My money is on a US proxy/merc op.  C'mon man, what difference does it makes whether 220 people are dead?  Russia looks bad.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:41 | 4982874 Dasa Slooofoot
Dasa Slooofoot's picture

I missed the UK tabloids with pics of Palestinian kids.  Did they run those covers yet? 

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:00 | 4982936 CH1
CH1's picture

I missed the UK tabloids with pics of Palestinian kids...

As long as the Saudis keep paying them, the tabloids will keep printing the pics.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:01 | 4982942 Bingo Hammer
Bingo Hammer's picture

OMG don't you realise you are forbidden to criticise the Tribe? shush now

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:17 | 4983215 joe90
joe90's picture

Disagree.  The BUK missile isn't big enough to "blow up" the whole plane alone, it's triggered some distance away and a blast of schrapnel is fired into the plane.  So it's important to know what part of the plane was hit first and how the plane was caused to break up.  A BUK missile may have been fired (or just the radar systems operated) and following fighter jets were used for the kill.  Clues about all of this will be found amongst the wreckage.  Operation of the BUK missile takes 17 trained personell and three vehicles.  Since the plane was at the limit of the missile's range, knowing where the plane was hit pinponts the location of the launchers on the ground quite accurately.  17 people need to eat and sleep.  Locals will have seen them.  Therefore whoever orchestrated it knew exactly what they were targeting (if it was a BUK), and ruling out a BUK missile as the mechanism even more stronly implies deliberate targeting.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:19 | 4982798 Ghostdog
Ghostdog's picture

Where is Boris to explain all this.......

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:19 | 4982799 SoDamnMad
SoDamnMad's picture

There isn't any evidence left. Why bother with a "robust" investigation?  Just be nice enough to get the bodies back to their families.  Please Vlad, no more church scenes until January 7.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:29 | 4982837 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

I'm tired of hearing how drunken separatist thugs have been gathering up the bodies of the dead and moving them with little respect. Anyone who has ever undertaken such a task will tell you it is a difficult and horrible job. Someone who is drunk cannot or will not go far into a field and be able to help carry a heavy body in 85 degree heat. Any ass ranting about how these are a bunch of drunks has never worked a day in their life! More on this subject in the article below.

http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2014/07/putin-holds-all-cards.html

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:20 | 4982803 IronShield
IronShield's picture

Not exactly a trend setter, I did this years ago. 

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:21 | 4982804 sleigher
sleigher's picture

Meanwhile Robert Parry says US spy satellites saw Ukraine troops shoot down the plane.

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/20/what-did-us-spy-satellites-see-in-u...

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:42 | 4982876 ross81
ross81's picture

very good article, makes sense.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:46 | 4982886 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Great link, thanks.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:23 | 4982815 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

Video: Putin appears statesman-like , Heinzketchup does not.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:29 | 4983043 Government need...
Government needs you to pay taxes's picture

The image I always conjure when I think of Kerry is the man windsurfing.  That, I believe, is his calling in life.  He should stop pretending to play diplomat.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:25 | 4982823 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

i guess putie really isn't that smart after all. microsoft and ibm have been spying on them for years.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:26 | 4982827 Titus
Titus's picture

Still no explanation on why the US governement spent USD$4 billion on the regime change in Ukraine.

Still no valid explanation on why the US government is arming Israel.

Still no valid explanation why the US government is arming Al Quaeda in Syria.

Still no valid explanation on why WMDs were never found after the Iraq invasion.

 

 

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:34 | 4982853 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

Since July of 2013 when the American government was allowed to take a more active role in creating news programs both government accountability and the role of free media has been diminished.  As of July 2, 2013 a taboo came silently to an end with the implementation of a new law passed in January.

For decades a so-called anti-propaganda law prevented the U.S. government's mammoth broadcasting arm from delivering programming to American audiences. The new law unleashes thousands of hours per week of government-funded radio and TV programs for domestic U.S. consumption. This was criticized by many human rights activist as a green light for U.S. domestic propaganda efforts and in my opinion it is already being felt. More on this subject in the article below. 

 http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2014/07/when-propaganda-and-surveillance....

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:42 | 4982879 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

History 2044

"......the citizens finally took back the US........and then it was discovered the US Regime had silently replaced all of its reporters with State Agents trained by the military forces and unconventional warfare experts...Obama was never found, having once again changed disguises before fleeing the country."

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:28 | 4982836 Pee Wee
Pee Wee's picture

"Back off or the Chinese and unconstitutional domestic spys get it!"

Is this some sort of threat/joke from retarded Reds?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:32 | 4982849 Racer
Racer's picture

U.S. Secretary of State Kerry agree on impartial investigation?

The US and impartial is a classic example of an oxymoron

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:35 | 4982855 LostandFound
LostandFound's picture

How is Putin going to ensure a full investigation on the ground in Eastern Ukraine, when the country doesnt belong to him.

I am sure it was all part of Putin's plans to be alienated by the western world and increase the sanctions being put on his country. It must have been Russia, this is what they intended.

/sarc

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:35 | 4982859 IllusionOfChoice
IllusionOfChoice's picture

It would be nice to see US companies follow in Russia's footsteps and drop M$ and IBM. There are lots more effective ways to spend your money and avoid long term buy in.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:37 | 4982864 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Many here in India think the Ukraine was trying to shoot down Putin's plane and hit the wrong one, FWIW.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:54 | 4982913 ross81
ross81's picture

It'd be a theory if not for the fact Putin hasnt flown over Ukraine since conflict started. Why give the Ukie fascists even a tiny chance of scoring that sort of spectacular victory?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:58 | 4982926 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

then many in India are absolute fucking morons, since Putin was in Brazil when MH17 was shot down

seriously, look it up

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:07 | 4982957 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Then I stand corrected, but I have heard that 3X since yesterday.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:43 | 4983097 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

Russian state media has been fucking that chicken for days now... too bad everyone knows it's a bald faced lie

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:19 | 4983250 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

Hang around here the BS is much deeper and they speak Engish you can understand. Don't forget your tin foil hat and Russian flag.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:37 | 4983072 Bazza McKenzie
Bazza McKenzie's picture

Kinda surprised that you got down arrows, since all you were doing was reporting local beliefs.  The beliefs may be unfounded but there is value in knowing that large parts of the world don't believe what the western MSM is pushing.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:42 | 4982875 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

The 'crime scene' for this crash is on Pennsylvania Avenue, the 'crash site' is in eastern Ukraine.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:46 | 4982888 jhondough
jhondough's picture

putin is my hero. he's not a dirty muslim, gay boy who likes is women with packages. 

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:53 | 4982891 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

U.K. said to seek ban on EU defense goods export to Russia

Don't worry Israel, we'll still sell them to you.  Hurry, buy one get one free whilst stocks last.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:50 | 4982902 voxpopuli
voxpopuli's picture

Article in french, unfortunately, but pretty interesting perpsective if confirmed : the video allegedly "showing reponsibility of Ucrainian dissidents" may have been created 1 day before the crash.

All to be verified, obviosuly, just posting this because Zerohedge is quoted .... and actually gives a nice way to easily verify by ourselves what we are shown those days ...  

 

http://lesmoutonsenrages.fr/2014/07/19/false-flag-le-gouvernement-ukrain...

 

; )

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 08:58 | 4982922 Kina
Kina's picture

Dont know whose missile, by whom, or even if it were a missile.

 

50/50 bet it was a fuck up by rebels, or Ukraine/US/Blackwater frame up.

 

Alternatively...if it were running windows a BOD at the wrong time....

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:00 | 4982935 digitalindustry
digitalindustry's picture

no - i'm calling a G20 punk here - :

 

I know its far out but watch this video :

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYmViPTndxw

 

but especially take note of the last part - the reference to the G7 and the G20 -

obviously the G8 became the G7 because they dropped Russia.

if the G20 dropped Russia it would be the G19

as per the video (stated compression of numbers)

G7 and G19 (the Group without Russia)

7 and 19

becomes

7 + 1 + 9

= 17

 

which was also the day.

 

Australians on-board - now 321 pack the security resolution with a "admission of guilt" or some other insulting line that Russia will not accept - veto = dropped from G20 -

 

world split in half , job well done.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:14 | 4982980 gafgroocK
gafgroocK's picture

 

 

That's alot of Math to handle in a Post...just saying

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:02 | 4982944 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Barry is busy vacationing. No problem, Kerry will look like the fool he is. Commercial airliners need to be away from areas of conflict.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:33 | 4983056 potato
potato's picture

Good. That monkey needs to stay out of this.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:41 | 4983091 nathan1234
nathan1234's picture

Barry is preparing the backdoor even while vacatioing

Which is what he loves doing

 

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:49 | 4983122 semperfi
semperfi's picture

loves preparing his backdoor ?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:34 | 4983063 ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

If the US can see beer bottles on the ground in Ukraine, they sure ought to be able to track jets near MH 17.  The US will also have captured all communiucations between those jets and base as well as Kiev air traffic control.  Speak up, fellows.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:23 | 4983277 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

So you would believe what they said? That would be the first time. 

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:19 | 4982990 TrulyStupid
TrulyStupid's picture

For those of you untrained in the subtleties of Russian diplomatic language...Putin is suggesting that though the missile system hardware in question is Russian... the software that controls it is from IBM or Microsoft... and we all know that the NSA has the ability to remotely control all these systems. Could the missile have beeen fired from remote control?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:31 | 4983051 potato
potato's picture

I thought that missile system was designed and built in the 1970s

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:38 | 4983079 falak pema
falak pema's picture

by Linda Lovelace?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:43 | 4983101 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Yes and B-52s were designed and built in 1960s. For a missile designed in 1979 ( and updated continually) it certainly makes Boeing 777s look vulnerable and other aircraft. Wait until ISIS get some of those in Syria - no more overflying Iraq

Just how are they going to get out of Afghan ?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:25 | 4983282 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

Quit screwing up the story.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:40 | 4983367 TrulyStupid
TrulyStupid's picture

And haven't had a software update since?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:20 | 4983007 Mabussur
Mabussur's picture

I'd like to pass a little scenario past you guys.

A high ranking separatist (dont remember the name) stated that the cadavers that were supposively those of the passengers were not "fresh" for lack of a better word and drained of blood.

Tinfoil hat on

1-Take a similar plane, say one 'lost' over the indian ocean

2-Fill it with cadavers and possibly nasty chemicals

3-Set the plane to go crash in tel aviv or some shit (not sure what is on the changed flight path) and get justification to go even more apeshit on the palestinians

4-Russian intelligence gets wind of the plot and shoots down the damn thing one way or another. lesser of 2 evils kind of thing

Tinfoil hat off

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:29 | 4983041 potato
potato's picture
  1. Putin doesnt give a shit about palestinians or the separatists. Then again, neither does anybody else.
Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:26 | 4983290 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

You are a moron. Tell that story to the crying relatives.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:26 | 4983031 Government need...
Government needs you to pay taxes's picture

Russia is blazing an interesting trail in its efforts to reduce reliance on the big communication technology companies.  This is quite interesting, as we'll need the resources of sovereign nations to throw off the digital shackles currently around every person's wrists as they take to their 'keyboards'.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:30 | 4983042 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

if putin wasn't prepared to cut back on oil and natty exports as a weapon he should have just kissed the maggot's asses. the only thing that hurts those scumbags in any way is $200+/bbl oil or nukes up their asses, or both.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:31 | 4983049 pupdog1
pupdog1's picture

IBD is all over Putin today like a cheap suit, including a Rameriz cartoon of Putin's hand crushing the plane in mid-air.

Sheesh.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:36 | 4983075 medium giraffe
Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:42 | 4983371 pupdog1
pupdog1's picture

Cheesier than cheese, can I have extra cheese pleeze?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:43 | 4983098 yogibear
yogibear's picture

A rag for Barry. Hollywood and the media loves Obama.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:37 | 4983070 Stumpy4516
Stumpy4516's picture

If Putin is such a forward thinking chess player why did Russia continue to run Microsoft/IBM and other US sourced computer products.  It has been known that there were backdoors for a long time and that computers were bing detored to NSA/CIA for special modifications prior to going to targets.  This action should have been taken at least 8 years ago.

These facts make it appear Russia and others are very far behind in their actions.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:38 | 4983080 Who was that ma...
Who was that masked man's picture

The question is:  Is Putin's honesty and sincerity a match for the West's (America's) propaganda?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:45 | 4983105 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

is this a kind of moral contest, where the child that lies less wins? seriously, sometimes this lie/honesty thing can be a bit excessive (is this an American cultural thing?)

Putin is not a honesty and sincerity hero and saint. evidence: unmarked "green men" in Crimea

propaganda is relative, and the reasons are also important. but at the end... it's about actions that matters most, not words

so my question is: will Putin help to calm things down? will the US do the same?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:01 | 4983168 piratepiet
piratepiet's picture

Hey Ghordius,

If the "green men" are unmarked, how do you know they are Russian ( controlled ) ?

Same goes for the US : if these men were Russian (controlled), it would be unthinkable for the US not to be able to provide proof of it.  As the US has not done so far, that leaves us with 2 possibilities :

1.  They are not Russian ( controlled )

2.  They are Russian ( controlled ) and US is acquiescing

 

Which one is it, Ghordius ?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:38 | 4983350 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

of course they are Russian, either in the narrow or the broader sense. they flew the Russian flag for Russian national purposes, for criminy. why, is there any doubt it's 2? I don't get your angle

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 11:40 | 4983741 piratepiet
piratepiet's picture

Flying the Russian flag does not qualify as being marked Russian and could be a mere expression of an aspiration on their part.  I could fly the Russian flag tomorrow.  I trust you get my angle as far as the role the USA might be playing is concerned.  It is not too difficult to suspect their potential role by simple logic, an angle surprisingly few posters ( none ? ) here seem to take an effort to examine.  For some reason ( let's call it intuition ) I lumped you in with the US intelligence elites and hoped you could answer for them, my bad. 

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 16:40 | 4985135 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

are we still about unmarked "green men" in Crimea?

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 14:20 | 4989129 piratepiet
piratepiet's picture

of course, Crimea and Eastern Ukraine.  In the case of Crimea,  did the US almost imperceptibly nod to Russia, or did I just imagine ? Nevermind. 

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:14 | 4983228 SilvertonguedAngel
SilvertonguedAngel's picture

How can immorality(atheist homosexual USA) beat morality( Christian traditional Russia) in a moral contest?

 

How can being the biggest liar be a virtuous and sustainable geopolitical strategy?

 

How do unmarked 'green men' prove Putins intransegence?

 

How can your undocumented befuddled musings be used by others as evidence of anything other than your severe lack of cognition?

 

These questions are better than your question.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:42 | 4983092 yogibear
yogibear's picture

China will gain a closer relationship with Russia. 

Maybe the flood of illegals can help the US with more EBT cards and welfare (sarc). They can push the buttons to vote for the liberals. 

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:44 | 4983103 semperfi
semperfi's picture

Its a false flag at worst, mistake by Ukraine military at best.

Either way, USA is going to use this as more ammo to make Russia look like the bad guys when the real bad guys are in Langley, DC, NY, and Basel. 

So that the USA/Western collapse can then be (falsely) blamed on Russia seeking out revenge.

So when the derivatives blow up:  Russia's doing

So when your bank account is suddenly 0:  Russian hackers stole it.

So when your IRA/401k account is 0:  Russian hackers stole it.

All to get the USA/West pissed at Russia - for revenge over BRICS Bank, de-dollarization, gold-backed Ruble, Yuan, etc.

Go Putin !  Please destroy once and for all the Rothschild Regime and the Basel Castle Dwellers.

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